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Apple Admits Nvidia GPU Defect In Some MacBook Pros
bigwophh writes "The brouhaha over defective Nvidia mobile graphics chips keeps rolling along, even months after the initial headlines have faded. Despite Nvidia's promises that Apple's GeForce 8600M GT-based MacBook Pros had dodged the bullet and were immune from the defect, Apple now counters that it wasn't, in fact, so lucky. 'In July 2008, NVIDIA publicly acknowledged a higher than normal failure rate for some of their graphics processors due to a packaging defect. At that same time, Nvidia assured Apple that Mac computers with these graphics processors were not affected. However, after an Apple-led investigation, Apple has determined that some MacBook Pro computers with the NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT graphics processor may be affected.' The units in question are the 15-inch and 17-inch MacBook Pro notebooks with Nvidia GeForce 8600M GT GPUs, built between May 2007 and September 2008."
So Charlie of The Inquirer was right?
What's a blue moon?
Does Asus manufacture Apple notebooks? Regardless, I'm still curious as to why Asus has denied the problem at all in any of their notebooks. I even called them up to ask about it and the response was... "If you think you have any problems, mail the notebook to us, and we'll take a look at it, but our notebooks are not effected by this."
The notebook I have is the G1S-A1 that has an nvidia 8600GT.
Maybe used MacBooks are in for a bit of a price drop, considering that they are ticking time bombs.
The video card just randomly died one day. No video on the attached screen or an external LCD with few options for backing up data.
Luckily, I had AppleCare at the time and Apple just kept the HD intact. This only happened two months ago, and I had only purchased AppleCare a few weeks beforehand.
When I called about the issue, they claimed that they hadn't heard of the problem before. I wonder what happened in two months for them to change their tune?
beer
Say what?*
The boring part is that it sucks having to get an external HDD, back up your machine, be left without it for weeks because there are no Apple stores in Sweden so you have to send it in, and so on so on. So I waited until the last days of the warranty just to notice that their gay webpage seem to count one year FROM SHIPPING DATE and not from when I actually got the machine in my hands. So I couldn't fill in the RMA crap because it said my machine was out of warranty. I mailed them and they told me to call them but I haven't yet because it's so fucking inconvenient and I would rather take it by text.
Hate Apple. Also my backlighting must have some scratch or something because I have an area underneath the actual pixels which is brighter and if I move my head it moves behind them. Not to forget the retarded decision on their part to just use 128 MB, which is another reason I waited, just in case I would happen to get a 256MB vram machine in return. Not likely but I could hope ..
Yeah, and the aluminium "foil" has become lose around the lid button so it bumps out..
* Usually the issue isn't as serious as that, in Safari the text just used to be mixed up. I thought maybe it was some memory issue or something because Safari always seemed to take all ram. But everyone else claimed they never had that problem (though not very unlikely for mac people) and since I sometimes gets other weird issues I guess my GPU is a little faulty.
There, fixed that for you. God forbid that that an Apple story on Slashdot might have an accurate title or summary these days.
Yeah, I know, I must be new around here.
Google says it is frequency.
once in a blue moon = 1.16699016 Ã-- 10-8 hertz
It is also has something to do with Shopping and astronomy. Because Google search is a good way to judge language. READ A BOOK!!!!!
CoconutIdentityCard, an app that tells you when and where your Mac or iPod was manufactured, says my MBP was made between January and July 2007 in Shanghai. I wish it was more specific about the date, so I'd have a better idea if my machine is affected.
At any rate, I've been having some repeated video issues with external monitors as of late; a CRT recognized as an LCD and only able to match internal LCD's resolutions, regardless of mirroring settings, and a BSON (nothingness) when disconnecting from DVI, necessitating a hard power-off. I was (and still kind of am) really hoping it wouldn't be affected, as I don't have a worthy backup machine to use while this is in the shop. It's a 15" 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo with the 256 MB GeForce 8600M GT.
At least it's still within the included first-year AppleCare. It's possible this could be handled like the issue of the failing logic boards in iBooks, when Apple replaced the logic board if it was within a certain serial number range, regardless of warranty coverage. Hopefully all affected MacBook Pro owners will get the same treatment.
Ever_So_Slightly_OT... Those of us who bought Dell laptops with a Nvidia 84/86M video, are looking at the same manufacturing defect.. Dell's only response so far, is to issue a bios upgrade that simply runs the fan all the time and add a years warantee onto whatever you already have, for any video failures... WAY too little.. Dell/HP, and whatever other laptop mfgrs who use these defective chips need to go after Nvidia in a big way, and give users with these faulty systems at least a 5yr warantee on video failures.. I bought my Vostro 1400 since I needed a laptop with Nvidia video for some OpenGL stuff that was recommended to run on Nvidia video vs ATI...
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
While that advisory has the usual neutral restrained tone that official documentation always has, I suspect Apple is displeased. The advisory comes out and says, albeit in bland language, "Nvidia has been lying to us for some time now, even as their parts are dying in our notebooks."
I wonder if this broke too late to affect the probability of the macs-with-nvidia-chipsets rumors?
If they know a range of their laptops have crappy video chipsets, why make customers wait till their laptops start faulting? Steve really dropped the customer service ball on this one. Next laptop will not be an Apple, nor use NVidea crapsets.
Now I'm more than happy I didn't buy MacBook Pro yet...
-Seeing the problem is ½ of solution-
I tried to say something funny but ended up being not so funny.
-Seeing the problem is ½ of solution-
How long until those suckers are out of the distribution channel? I bought one and although I haven't had any problems yet, I did make sure to buy the three year extended warranty from Best Buy. At this point I'm just waiting until I am sure the newer version of the MBP is in the channel and then I'm going to return my defective one.
In a year with 13 full moons, one of those full moons is a blue moon. Happens a bit more than once every 3 years.
I've heard it plenty from the same sort of people who say "where on god's green earth...?" and "hell in a handbasket" and use "bloody" as their most powerful invective.
That's more of a "brewhaha".
I just ordered a Dell laptop with a GeForce 8600M GS, and the laptop is being assembled right now. Is this graphics chip likely to be one of those affected by the problem, or is this likely to have a revised version of the GPU core?
I read an article that seemed to suggest that this problem affected chips made in a certain time range, but has it already been fixed? Would a laptop being assembled today by Dell likely use the new version of the affected core?
Well, I really don't have an issue with the word "brouhaha". It's something journalists roll out to sensationalize a story. Much like "beleaguered" or "oft maligned".
However, this story headline has a much better version of that tactic... "admits". Which implies that there was either denial or that they have been accused of something and are now confessing. That may not be the exact dictionary definition, but that's the implication when using the word - particularly in this context.
Based upon the story, the correct word is "claims". It is Nvidia that will be in a position to "admit" there's a problem, because they are the ones that "claimed" there was no problem with Apple systems while Apple is now "claiming" Nvidia's statement to be false.
Again, these are not strictly dictionary definitions nor are they exact legal jargon. They are based upon the implied meanings of those words when used in everyday language.
As an aside, my favorite use of that tactic is when the word "alleged" is rolled out. Basically, anything can be "alleged", but journalists roll it out when they want to cast doubt on an issue.
There's an easy way to diagnose this specific problem and prove it to the Apple techs. Boot the computer with sound on; you should hear Mac OSX start up. Hit Command-F5 (or Command-Fn-F5, depending on your settings.) That will turn on Voiceover. This will let you navigate without the screen, (although slowly and painfully). Go to System Preferences -> Sharing -> Screen Sharing, and turn on screen sharing, setting a password. Use TightVNC to connect to your MBP's IP address. You now have a screen. Go to About This Mac -> System Profiler. Check your graphics card. If it reports as an Intel GMA X3100, take a screenshot and print it. That's the rock-solid proof of a faulty GeForce 8600. Used this method to get mine replaced 2 days ago. I had Applecare, thank goodness; if you have one of these Macbooks and you've had it less than a year, GET APPLECARE. The chip WILL fail, and then you're out $1000 for a logic board replacement, as Apple has given no indication that they're going to extend the warranty for this issue.
Looks like the commenter that mentioned a possible link between low-lead and high-lead solder might be on to something, or the inquirer.net writer if he/you brought this possible issue to light.
I have a Toshiba A215-S7422 notebook that has video problems as well. Toshiba is covering it up and trying to run out the warranty. The screen "blanks" and the laptop freezes up. No system keys work, emergency syncing doesn't work, etc. But the cpu still is getting power because the air at the vent remains hot. The only solution when the problem hits is to hold down the start button till the lights go out and then release and hold down again for a cold reboot. I thought it was a Vista problem, but I'm dual booting Debian, and the problem appears with it too. I thought it might be a cpu throttling problem, so I forced the cpu (AMD TL-58) to stay at 800 MHz, then tried at full speed (1900 MHz) and in between. No difference. In Debian, I set up scripts to log temperature every minute, cpu speed, load, cpu utilization, etc., to see what the issue was after a lockup. No difference. Happens at any speed, any temp, any load, any cpu utilization, etc.
I was getting 20-30-40 day uptimes, but made the mistake of falling asleep with throttling turned off. Cpu ran at 1900 MHz for about 7 hours. After that, the uptimes are now a few days to a week being a really good uptime. Tried different kernels as well, all the way to 2.6.25, currently running at 2.6.24 because I think I may be getting slightly less uptime with 2.6.25. The laptop was put to emergency use running a very low hit count web site in Dec. 07 and has been performing that function since then up until now, so the laptop has been running 24/7 since then. It just freezes up, the power, logon, battery lights stay on like when it is running on ac power, and the ethernet port light remains lit, the ethernet termination at the switch remains lit as well. It just freezes up with a dark "blue" screen similar to when the screen blanks after inactivity if you don't use a screen saver.
Toshiba allegedly addressed this with a bios fix, acknowledging an "intermittent screen blanking issue". Prior to the bios fix, I was able to adjust how much system memory could be used for the video card in the bios during boot up. That ability was removed with the bios update. Now, whether during boot up phase, or directly entering bios, the ability to change amount of system ram for video has been removed. Toshiba admits this "intermittent screen blanking issue" for dozens and dozens and dozens of A215-Sxxxx and other Toshiba Axxx-xxxxx models, with the same or another bios version to fix the dozens and dozens and dozens of models that this affects. According to customer service, I should take it to a local authorized repair center. After a long conversation with the local authorized repair center manager (owner?), he admitted that the "fix" is for him to update the bios himself, which alters the throttling/cooling profiles in Vista. I described what I did to try and trace the problem and he admitted it was a bigger issue than Toshiba's "fix". He suggested sending the laptop back to Toshiba instead of taking it to him and follow up with them until the issue is resolved.
My warranty is up in the next couple of months and the reason for purchasing the laptop was to run the web site until I finally replace the "server" the web site(s) was/were running on. I'm also using the same laptop for personal use while its serving the sites, so I have a year's worth of personal info and web development work on it as well. I was able to back up months ago onto DVD disks, but now the data is quite a bit more. Every time I try to back up to a USB drive or over ethernet to the replacement "server", the laptop locks up. So for now my data is stuck on the laptop until I figure out how to get it off in between lockups so I can send the laptop back to Toshiba. Now if I could find the receipt for when it was purchased...
When I called about the issue, they claimed that they hadn't heard of the problem before. I wonder what happened in two months for them to change their tune?
Remember "The Formula" from Fight Club? If it costs more to do a recall than to lose those customers burned* by bad products, they don't do one.
They must have recalculated it recently and got a different answer than they've been getting for the past 17 months. This is not new for Apple, it takes forever for them to publicly admit there's a problem with their product, sometimes (perhaps most times) they quietly fix or update a product without ever mentioning there was a problem to begin with, regardless of the problem's severity. The X1900's in the Mac Pros are a good example.
*see movie for full pun appreciation
Latewire
"8600M GT GPUs, built between May 2007 and September 2008" -- Where do I get the date information?
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
I own a MacBook Pro that was built in the timeframe and has the NVidia 8600M GT GPU. ... yet.
Mine has not failed
Is there a general recall on this, to where I can get one that won't be failing unexpectedly?
Chip H.
...and I dropped it off at the Apple Store for repair on Friday afternoon. It returns on Wednesday. Thank goodness for Apple Care, but what an annoyance. I have a friend who went through this two months ago, same model.
I Love Apple and I Love nVidia, but I sure didn't love the lost productivity.
And of course, it happened during the week of The Big Deadline! Oy.
i think it's apple that's defective, and they r blaming other people
May to September, huh? Funny, that. I got my 8600M-equipped MBP in June and the GPU has chronic overheating problems... while idling on the desktop.
Have they fixed the problem ?
Is it safe to buy a MBP now ?