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Court Rules That Palin Must Save Yahoo Emails

quarterbuck writes "An Anchorage judge has ruled that Governor Sarah Palin must save her emails, as they were apparently used for state business. Last week a Tennessee man was arrested over hacking one of her Yahoo email accounts. The Washington Post also reports that Sarah Palin, her husband, and officials had set up email accounts known only to each other."

38 of 412 comments (clear)

  1. Taking one for the team. by Drakin020 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I guess you can say that 4chan kid took one for the team.

    Had he not gained access (I don't use the word hack because he didn't hack anything) to her email account, this decision may not have come to be.

    I guess you can say he took one for the team although that may not have been his original intentions.

    --
    The greatest revenge in life is massive success.
    1. Re:Taking one for the team. by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 4, Informative

      Before he was arrested, he posted that he was afraid and he basically bailed out. That's why he didn't back up the e-mails.

      Now he's going to be seen the some cowering, harmless punk kid who half-wittedly exposed the blatant stupidity of Sarah Palin and the weaknesses of Yahoo and similar mail services.

    2. Re:Taking one for the team. by Drakin020 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But do you think that if he had not gained access to her emails, this decision would have been made? Regardless if he backed out, this still resulted in her being forced to keep her yahoo emails. This could come back to bite her if she doesn't remove those emails first.

      --
      The greatest revenge in life is massive success.
    3. Re:Taking one for the team. by stinerman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Second paragraph FTA, friend:

      The judge issued the orders at the request of Andree McLeod, an Anchorage activist whose pursuit of Palin's e-mails revealed that the governor did considerable state business from a Yahoo e-mail address -- an arrangement that avoided the safeguards and accountability of the state's secure e-mail system.

    4. Re:Taking one for the team. by Danse · · Score: 4, Informative

      But do you think that if he had not gained access to her emails, this decision would have been made? Regardless if he backed out, this still resulted in her being forced to keep her yahoo emails. This could come back to bite her if she doesn't remove those emails first.

      I believe there was already an effort underway by some Alaskans to gain access to the emails in the commercial accounts that Palin and her staff were using. The account that got hacked was actually her personal Yahoo account, not one of the ones normally used for official business.

      --
      It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
    5. Re:Taking one for the team. by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Personal email accounts called gov.palin@yahoo.com and where the subjects clearly implied she was talking business?

      Sorry, I don't believe for a second they were personal.

    6. Re:Taking one for the team. by Danse · · Score: 4, Informative

      Personal email accounts called gov.palin@yahoo.com and where the subjects clearly implied she was talking business?

      Sorry, I don't believe for a second they were personal.

      gov.palin@yahoo.com was her personal use account. gov.sarah@yahoo.com was the one that she was using for official state business.

      --
      It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
    7. Re:Taking one for the team. by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 5, Interesting

      gov.palin@yahoo.com was her personal use account. gov.sarah@yahoo.com was the one that she was using for official state business.

      It doesn't really matter what she says the account was used for, it is the actual usage that counts.
      The list of subjects and correspondents from the so-called 'personal use account' that are posted on wikileaks is extremely incriminating.

      I'm sure that the worst punishment she will receive will be a slap on the wrist, after all the president and his staff have already done far worse wrt to email hiding and nothing happened to them. But what it does do is expose 'politics as usual' for her, all claims to maverick status are pretty much null and void now.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    8. Re:Taking one for the team. by gmack · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't know how this keeps getting repeated. The media has been much easier on Palin than they were on Obama or even his wife. Not so much an anti Obama thing either it was that they got lambasted for going off into the trivial.

      How long did they go on about "why doesn't he wear a flag pin?" Is your memory so short that you can't remember from two months ago?

      McCain crying that the media hates him doesn't make it so. If he didn't want a media frenzy then he shouldn't have picked a complete unknown as his VP.

    9. Re:Taking one for the team. by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I agree that malice may not have been intended. However, that doesn't really matter. For people in positions like her's, using official email systems for official business is a nonoptional aspect of documentation and accountability. Failure to do so is, at best, incompetent neglect of duty, and at worst deliberate conspiracy to deceive the public. Maliciously doing this is worse than doing so nonmaliciously; but using official email for official business is a necessary part of the job. Not doing a necessary part of your job, even if it is totally without malice, is still bad.

      I'm a sysadmin, if I failed to run backups properly, and data were lost, they wouldn't have to prove that I maliciously failed to do so in order for me to deserve to get fired. Simply not doing so is bad enough. Same for her.

    10. Re:Taking one for the team. by Maxmin · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The account that got hacked was actually her personal Yahoo account, not one of the ones normally used for official business.

      Some interesting news on this front: because Palin deleted her Yahoo email accounts, she may be up for destruction of evidence charges. Felony if true, up to four years in prison.

      Shortly after the email account hack, Time revealed that the feds already had access to her Yahoo email accounts, as part of a federal investigation into Troopergate.

      One shoe left to drop, and it's the big one. Hopefully we'll hear something about it during October, though it's quite plausible that the current DOJ may drag their feet well past election day.

      --
      O lord, bless this thy holy hand grenade, that with it thou mayest blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy.
    11. Re:Taking one for the team. by hrvatska · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Obama has been under intense media scrutiny for the last year. All of what you're bringing up was reported at various times. Do a search of the NY Times, I think you'll find that they reported on all of this previous to Obama being nominated.

      Sarah Palin shows up out of the blue, with a little over two months until the election, and you're surprised the press is all over her, her family, and anyone that knew her since childhood? If that level of scrutiny is too much for her then she should not have agreed to be on the Republican ticket. As Gail Collins said in an opinion piece, "Palin has been pressing the line that people don't really know 'the real Barack Obama,' and who could make the argument better than a woman who we've already known for almost six weeks? Really, she's like one of the family."

    12. Re:Taking one for the team. by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Indeed, users of public email services, or any other email services, do not generally have any obligation to preserve emails. The issue is that Governors(among others) have a legal duty to adhere to various standards for handling documents pertaining to official business, which generally means preservation, compliance with FOIA requests, etc.

      Among a governor's various duties is preservation of official records. If they fail to do that, there is a problem. If the behave in such a manner as would lead to their failing to do that, there is a problem. If they do so deliberately, there is a bigger problem.

    13. Re:Taking one for the team. by Miseph · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The big deal is that she is required by law, the very same law she has sworn to uphold as governor, to follow certain rules and regulations about how she conducts her business. Had she used her work e-mail, as it were, compliance would have been enforced server side and this would not be an issue, but she chose not to and then violated the rules. If she'd used Yahoo! and followed the rules there wouldn't be a problem (well, outside of Yahoo! mail being crap...), but she didn't follow them and now it IS a problem. She may choose whatever e-mail provider she wants, she MAY NOT choose to break the law.

      And before somebody comes along with "well it's just her personal e-mail address, she probably didn't even think to" as a defense of doing this... the account names pretty obviously indicate she created them AFTER becoming governor, so it's not like these are legacy addresses. It's also not as if somebody held a gun to her head and made her run for and accept the office of governor of Alaska, if she didn't want to comply with these laws, all she needed to do was not take on a job which required her to follow them.

      --
      Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
    14. Re:Taking one for the team. by Maxmin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      None of this really means there was malice intended.

      Ignorance of the law is no excuse, especially when you hold the highest office in your state, sworn to uphold *all* the laws of the land.

      At the time that Palin was using her Yahoo accounts for govt business, she was also in the public record as knowing that activists were suing for access to her email.

      Using private email accounts for public business is illegal in Alaska. Rather than deny this, surely she should be a big lady and step up to admit ... but it doesn't matter. The judge will ensure that the emails will come forth, unless Yahoo says "oops! we lost that backup tape..." like the current White House did.

      --
      O lord, bless this thy holy hand grenade, that with it thou mayest blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy.
    15. Re:Taking one for the team. by fishbowl · · Score: 4, Informative

      >Did you know about Ayers?

      I knew about Ayers when he was pallin' around with Nancy Reagan, before the Reaganite Annenberg gave him $50 million. That was in the early 90s.

      I laughed a lot when his name came up, because I already know he had as many Republican connections as Democrat.

       

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    16. Re:Taking one for the team. by Walkingshark · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is exactly the point. Our system was created by the people who might be punished, so when they made it they never built in any real accountability. In a rational world, just using a private, personal account for state buisiness would be enough to get her fired. In the same way, the "I do not recall" defense has become a staple of culture, especially in politics, to the point where it is pretty clear that anyone with memory problems as bad as, say, Alberto Gonzalez, should be fired immidiately and prevented from ever working for the public again. Accountability must be restored or in the long term the negative feedback will build until we end up having to go to war with ourselves to clean out the corruption. Its fucked up, but thats how it is.

      --
      The world you experience is only a close approximation of reality.
    17. Re:Taking one for the team. by Walkingshark · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, they found email related to official buisiness on her yahoo account. Sorry, I know I know, reality has a well known liberal bias.

      --
      The world you experience is only a close approximation of reality.
  2. Gmail by Bicx · · Score: 5, Funny

    She should just go with Gmail. Google will save her information whether she likes it or not.

  3. Re:Like hell she will... by commodoresloat · · Score: 5, Informative

    Or she'll just claim the emails say the exact opposite of what they actually say, just like she did with the troopergate report.

  4. Taking bets by Drakin020 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What do you want to bet she went ahead and cleared out any potentially incriminating emails?

    I wonder if Yahoo would be able to retrieve it or if they would even have to.

    --
    The greatest revenge in life is massive success.
  5. Re:Like hell she will... by Azarael · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Until Yahoo gets subpoenaed to pull the email off of the back ups that they haven't deleted yet. Anyway, you could make a strong argument that given the circumstances, deleting the email would be considered destruction of evidence, which a US court _could_ hit you for.

  6. Saving the emails is irrelevant by GISGEOLOGYGEEK · · Score: 5, Funny

    Why would Palin care to delete any emails, or even try to hide them?

    Palin is a young earth creationist. She has no understanding of Evidence.

    --
    George Bush + Linux = "I will not let information get in the way of the fight against Windows"
    1. Re:Saving the emails is irrelevant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Those emails were put there by GOP to test our faith.

  7. Re:Sooper secret email address !!! omgroflcopter!! by cliffski · · Score: 4, Insightful

    why is a government employee sending emails on govt business through a free email account?
    Why are taxpayers paying for the states computer infrastructure if she isn't using it?
    Of course something dodgy is going on.

    --
    DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
  8. Re:Wait, she had private email... by stinerman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Good sir Ken,

    The problem is that she used the personal email for official correspondence, which is not all that legal.

    The personal account is required for campaign and private correspondence.

    HTH

  9. great by nomadic · · Score: 5, Funny

    Now can the Court issue an injunction barring her from using that ridiculously fake and obnoxious accent?

    1. Re:great by commodoresloat · · Score: 5, Funny

      Oh you betcha they can!

  10. Re:Sooper secret email address !!! omgroflcopter!! by Derling+Whirvish · · Score: 4, Interesting

    why is a government employee sending emails on govt business through a free email account?

    Because it's illegal to send campaign messages, partisan political messages, or e-mails dealing with RNC activities through a government account.

  11. Re:Sooper secret email address !!! omgroflcopter!! by Danse · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They've already seen boxes of emails from her aides to her Yahoo account. In fact, all but one email was sent to her gov.sarah@Yahoo.com account. That's the account she used for state business. It's not the account that got hacked.

    --
    It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
  12. Re:Does that inbred hick even know how? by CRCulver · · Score: 5, Funny

    If the GOP steals this one, too..I'm moving to Canada.

    Why do you hate freedom?

  13. Re:Privacy by Danse · · Score: 5, Informative

    Not that I'm for the ditz, but isn't everyone entitled to their privacy? Even online.

    As in, being free to delete whatever non-work emails come to you.

    The problem is that she was using a commercial account for state business, which circumvents the security and accountability of using official state email services. She essentially made state business subject to Yahoo's terms of service rather than the laws of Alaska. Her official email is supposed to be public record, but the state can't access or archive her commercial account.

    --
    It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
  14. More reasons Palin isn't ready for VP... by EtherealFlaim · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Not only was she stupid enough to have her yahoo account password resettable by an outsider, she was stupid enough to conduct state business on this and other non-state-secured e-mail accounts.

    I'm sorry, but anyone who doesn't realize that in order to be safe it ALWAYS important to assume that your emails are immediately and fully in the hands of your worst enemies is hopelessly naive. Besides the sketchily legal issue of conducting state business over unsecure email, she also copied her husband on some of it.

    Seriously Palin? Talk about it over the dinner table. Sending the email to your hubbie sends it over unsecure servers in the internet proper where they could be read in transit by any number of unruly or dangerous individuals. And that's assuming that she was sending it from a state-secured email on state-secured servers, which she obviously didn't at least some of the time.

    The scary part now is that if she were to pull the same stuff in the whitehouse, there would be terrorists and spies trying to get ahold of national secrets, not just the inner workings of a state government. And I think we can all agree that the resources they have at their disposal are frightening.

    I'm much happier with her gambling with Alaskan politics than National Security.

  15. Re:Why is this bad? by dkleinsc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Shouldn't secret communications always be an option?

    No, it shouldn't be. Not when a public official is acting in their official capacity. If it's not classified enough so that Yahoo mail wouldn't be a security breach, it's not so classified that the public shouldn't know about it.

    And no, I don't buy into the theory that advisers give better advice if the know that the public won't know what they say.

    --
    I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  16. I wonder if... by Brad1138 · · Score: 4, Funny

    that's what McCain meant by "Fellow Prisoners"?

    --
    If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
  17. Re:Why is this bad? by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 4, Funny

    Gee golly, that stuff about Guantanamo Bay just didn't need to be known for us honest simple god loving folk. Gosh darnit learning about water boarding has put our country at risk!

    Hopefully we'll get good old secret police to operate on their own terms and put this here country back in shape.

  18. Re:Palin by LSD-OBS · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Thanks, you're on the same brainless and reactionary wavelength as the crazy idiots on the other side screaming "Kill him!" and "Terrorist!" whenever Obama is mentioned.

    --
    Today's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. -- Hunter S. Thompson
  19. Re:Count me off your team by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    she has a right to privacy

    Sarah Palin the private individual has a right to privacy. Sarah Palin the Governor of Alaska has a responsibility to openness and transparency. I Sarah Palin the Governor of Alaska has been pretending to be Sarah Palin the private individual in order to escape this responsibility, then there is a problem.

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    I am TheRaven on Soylent News