Microsoft Woos Developers Under the Silverlight

CWmike writes to tell us that with the impending release of their Silverlight 2.0 product, Microsoft is poised to enact the next phase of their plan, wooing developers and designers directly. Microsoft is funding a French open-source project designed to allow programmers to utilize the Eclipse framework to build Silverlight apps. "Microsoft is also releasing for free a set of programming templates called the Silverlight Control Pack under its Microsoft Permissive License, as well as the technical specification for Silverlight's Extensible Application Markup Language (XAML) vocabulary via Microsoft's Open Specification Promise. The latter, said Goldfarb, should make it easier for would-be Silverlight developers."

Comments

An Even Shorter Summary

[Anonymous Coward]

The important parts of the summary:

Microsoft ... Developers ... ... developers ... ... developers.

Re:An Even Shorter Summary

[Captain Spam]

Ballmer: "Have you ever danced with the devil in the pale Silverlight?"

While I don't like Flash.

[LWATCDR]

Flash is multi platfrom and there is GASH as an option.
I also trust Adobe to be OS neutral a lot more than Microsoft.
99% of our your users already have Flash so why make them download and install Silverlight.

Re:While I don't like Flash.

[thetoadwarrior]

I agree, Applets aren't that bad but it may take awhile to get people to forget all those horrible java applets people used to put on their ugly sites. One of my favourites at the moment is Wordle. http://wordle.net/

Re:While I don't like Flash.

[TheRealMindChild]

You do realize that is the same twisted logic that caused a lot of the internet to be IE only?

99% of our your users already have IE so why make this work with Mozilla

Same trap. Just a different beast.

Re:While I don't like Flash.

[Tom]

so why make them download and install Silverlight.

Because you can.

Seriously, a lot of things with MS are just power games. The MS keys on your keyboard are an example. By my best estimate, about 1% of users ever use them for anything not an accident.

Re:While I don't like Flash.

[gaspyy]

Actually you can build flash apps without Flash.

Flex SDK is free and allows you to compile Flash, Flex and AIR apps.

FDT is not free but it's very very good (uses Flex). If you think it's not worth the money, you can write your own Eclipse plugin.

There are a number of other options, like FlasDevelop or MTASC, which although not Eclipse-based, are free alternatives.

Why not Flash or AJAX?

[jellomizer]

Keeping in mind I am speaking in a group where there are huge amount of open source zealots. However Flash has the advantage that it runs in Linux, Mac, Windows (And more if you are designing for older versions) while Silverlight is only Windows and Mac.
Next Flash is usually installed by default on Mac and Windows systems. (And a simple plug in for Linux... But if you guys are so smart you can probably add a plugin yourself anyways or the distribution has it already installed) Vs. Having to install it on Windows and Macs too.

If you don't need the extra graphics and AJAX method works good too. Plus you don't need to deal with the Closed Source Flash as well.

Re:Why not Flash or AJAX?

[Tweenk]

Except that a plugin is not available on Linux. MS touts Moonlight as a nearly complete port of Silverlight to Linux but in fact it's very far from being usable - even Gnash is light years ahead of Moonlight when compared with their closed source versions.

So, does this mean

[afidel]

We can expect an open source Silverlight viewer? If so and MS has agreed not to enforce any patents on the technology then I see little reason for it to not overtake flash. Flash sucks, a lot. The sooner we have another cross platform app for doing online animations and movies the better.

Re:So, does this mean

[LWATCDR]

It is called Moonlight. http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlight

But I am not all that comfortable with it. I think that Microsoft has done enough that I just can not trust them with any "standards" any longer.

Re:So, does this mean

[afidel]

My biggest problems with flash are CPU usage and stability. The fact that it's not available for anything but x86 is another, albeit secondary concern (mostly around mobile players).

Re:So, does this mean

[gaspyy]

Actionscript is similar to javascript, although in version 3, with strong typing, it starting to feel more like Java.

Some people - me included - like its flexibility, while others loathe the same thing.

The only thing I don't like about it is the new syntax for Vector data type (Flash 10)
C#, Java: int list[] = new int[100];
AS3: var list:Vector. = new Vector.(100);

Re:So, does this mean

[Blakey Rat]

Flash runs just fine on PPC Macs. I have a friend with a Windows Mobile phone that has no problem viewing Hulu Flash movies. (No clue what CPUs in it, but I doubt it's x86.) I dunno where you got the idea that it's x86-only.

Sluts

[orsocio]

"...under its Microsoft Permissive License..."

love the way Microsoft kinda imply that open source is so slutty...

Ugh, I tire of this...

[TheNecromancer]

I am so sick of reading these tech articles with an anti-MS bias to them.

As a developer, isn't the point to write better/more robust code?? Silverlight is a tool that Microsoft is designing so that developers can take better advantage of the rich Internet experience. It steams me that the author of that article seems bent on pointing out that MS has this "ultimate plan" to kill Adobe.

Why can't people get past the whole pro vs. anti-Microsoft thing? I may be ranting here (apologies in advance), but railing on MS for their past business practices (which I don't condone, BTW) is pointless. I tend to use the best tools available for the technologies that I code for, and Microsoft has some good ones! Sure, they are proprietary, but it could be any large corporation in MS's place, and people would rail on them for being the "big, bad corporation"! Open source has its' place in the industry, as does proprietary software!

Let's get past the hate, and just stick to what we (developers) do best: write awesome code!! I get stoked when I hear of new technologies coming out (from MS or Sun, or whomever), since that means the online experience users want is getting better, and WE are the ones who give it to the masses!!

W00t to new technologies!!

Re:Ugh, I tire of this...

[Microlith]

Silverlight is a tool that Microsoft is designing so that developers can take better advantage of the rich Internet experience.

Sounds like marketing drivel to me.

Why can't people get past the whole pro vs. anti-Microsoft thing?

While financials are right in stating that past performance does not guarantee future performance, microsoft does not get the benefit of the doubt. They have (and continue to, albeit subtly) acted maliciously towards their competitors for a long time, and will spread FUD whenever they can to drive users to the "platform of choice*", namely Windows and Windows-derivatives.

Not to say that Microsoft hasn't come up with some good things. The problem is that adopting these good things puts you right where Microsoft wants you: following them lockstep, but never quite able to catch up.

That said, your post reeks of cheerleader. Wake me up when Mono catches up to .NET 3.0 (I think they just got 1.0 WinForms support and are nearing 2.0 compatibility?)

Re:Ugh, I tire of this...

[Dan667]

I think that you are glossing over three decades of Microsoft stifling innovation, locking out others, and bullying. It is a very healthy thing to scrutinize Microsoft's activity and make sure others know to be wary of them. If they are going to behave differently they are not going to gain trust over night. But there is nothing so far that show that Microsoft is behaving any less badly than they have before.

Re:Ugh, I tire of this...

[LWATCDR]

Well it has more to do with standards. I don't want to have anything I do on the internet tied to one OS, browser, or even software supplier.
Flash is supported on more OS's and more browsers than Silverlight.
Also I just can not trust microsoft to keep supporting anything but Windows.
IE, Mediaplayer, and VBA for Office all show that Microsoft will not support anything but Windows.
That isn't really politics it is just logic. The internet should be OS and Browser neutral.

Re:Ugh, I tire of this...

[ConceptJunkie]

Saying Microsoft is trying to kill Adobe is "pro-" or "anti-" anything. It's an observation. It's what Microsoft always tries to do.

I think you're being just a little too sensitive here when talking about a company for which nothing is too low when it comes to smothering the competition.

Aside from that, if Silverlight is good, people will use it. Frankly, all I could ever get it to do is ask to be installed, even when it supposedly was. I guess it doesn't support Firefox. Flash is closed-source, a performance hog, and Adobe can't seem to port it to 64-bits even though they've been allegedly "trying" for years. If that doesn't tell you volumes about the quality of the code, then nothing will.

Silverlight is from Microsoft, therefore it will _not_ come without some huge club beating you in the face to lock you into Microsoft regardless of whether it's good or bad. This is an important consideration. Just when software is more cross-platform friendly than ever, Microsoft comes along and tries to set the clock back 10 years. No Linux support? Is this 1998 again?

These are important considerations above and beyond whether Silverlight is easy to work with and performs well. All Microsoft technology comes with a big ball-and-chain attached, backed by an obscenely powerful company who is not afraid to extort, intimidate and lie to maintain their advantage. For many people, that's not a problem and may even be seen as an advantage. For other people, it could be a deal-breaker.

If Microsoft wants to be treated based solely on the merits of their technology, then perhaps it's time, after 30 years, that they attempt to compete based solely on the merits of their technology.

Re:Ugh, I tire of this...

[Foofoobar]

Agreed. The web is meant to be cross platform and Microsoft keeps trying to tie the web to ther OS or their BROWSER or their TOOLS (which then tie back to their BROWSER which ties back to their OS). This is why people are anti Microsoft because Microsoft is anti-open and 'anti-cross platform'. Everytime they make the motion to be cross platform, they ruin it by tying it in to something else or exploiting it or making it obsolete. They can't just leave something open and cross platform. This is why people are suspicious that the have never accepted the GPL or any other truly open license.

Re:Ugh, I tire of this...

[Tweenk]

Mono isn't a 1:1 implementation of .Net ... they are compatible with everything in 2.0 that matters.

And Wine is compatible with everything that matters in the Win32 API. That doesn't cause all programs that matter to run correctly.

Really nice Silverlight sample site

[RingDev]

http://gallery1.demconvention.com/

Yup, the Democratic National Convention site is Silverlight. The bandwidth isn't quite as impressive as it was while the event was going on. But flip through the site and check out the functionality.

As someone who has developed a bit with the beta Silverlight tools, I have to say it is an amazing platform. And I'm quite excited about using it in the future.

-Rick

Re:Really nice Silverlight sample site

[argent]

But flip through the site and check out the functionality.

We're sorry, but the Democratic Convention video web site isn't compatible with your operating system and/or browser.

I'm sorry, but you're making me more interested in what McCain's got to say.

More links on the topic

[Dragonshed]

SL Eclipse Tools project
    http://www.eclipse4sl.org/

MS Press release (interestly enough, it plans linux as a supported platform)
    http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2008/oct08/10-13Silverlight2PR.mspx

Silverlight 2 release is imminent.

Why not use a fully open-source toolkit?

[scorp1us]

Given that Adobe AIR is based on WebKit, and the OpenSource world has Webkit (Qt has Webkit integrated, but Qt is not required for my suggestion), why don't we just make a fully AIR/Silverlight clone using WebKit and Javascript?

The proper way to woo.

[bionicpill]

Everyone knows real developers work on beer, not on Eclipse.

Lovely rant, but I have to know one thing

[Weaselmancer]

How the hell did you get all that in there fast enough to be the top page post? I just picture someone foaming at the mouth and typing so fast hummingbirds are frightened.

I have my problems with Microsoft too, but damn. Go outside. Walk a park. Read a book. You don't need an ulcer at your age.

Re:Lovely rant, but I have to know one thing

[martinw89]

Actually, I imagine this as some late 30s, early 40s year old guy living in his mom's basement with trollish rants ready to copy and paste. He also has a barbecue sauce stain on his shirt.

Actually, that's how I see all trolls.

I got tired of it too...

[argent]

As a developer, isn't the point to write better/more robust code?

I used to be platform-agnostic and hardware-agnostic, but after a few rounds of companies pulling platforms out from under me... "better" code that depends on a single vendor is something I have to look long and hard into before I'm going to jump on board. I don't care whether it's called NextStep or .NET, SmallTalk* or BeOS, if it's under the effective control of a single company it's pre-doomed. Over the past 30 years I've been burned too many times to trust ANY proprietary platform.

take better advantage of the rich Internet experience

Another buzz-phrase that was just as scary when it was the rich Desktop experience. That turned into a Microsoft-controlled virus hive. Not going there again.

I tend to use the best tools available

Me too, so long as nobody can pull those tools out from under me because they went out of business or changed their goals. I don't care so much whether it's open source or not, so long as there's multiple sources out there.

Re:Yes this is fantastic new tech.....

[Tweenk]

I installed Moonlight but the same message keeps appearing on the Democratic Convention site, and the Hard Rock Memorabilia site crashes FF. So much for Moonlight. It's a Microsoft perpetrated scam to fool people into thinking that Silverlight is portable to OSes not targeted by Microsoft.