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Duplicating Your Housekeys, From a Distance

Roland Piquepaille writes "Some clever computer scientists at UC San Diego (UCSD) have developed a software that can perform key duplication with just a picture of the key — taken from up to 200 feet. One of the researchers said 'we built our key duplication software system to show people that their keys are not inherently secret.' He added that on sites like Flickr, you can find many photos of people's keys that can be used to easily make duplicates. Apparently, some people are blurring 'numbers on their credit cards and driver's licenses before putting those photos on-line,' but not their keys. This software project is quite interesting, but don't be too afraid. I don't think that many of you put a photo of their keys online — with their addresses." I wonder when I'll be able to order more ordinary duplicate keys by emailing in a couple of photos.

50 of 287 comments (clear)

  1. wow by EncryptedSoldier · · Score: 5, Funny

    looks like hiding your key in that rock was a good idea after all :)

    1. Re:wow by BronsCon · · Score: 2, Funny

      You know, they can clone you from DNA, no need for a photo.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    2. Re:wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why clone an anus when there is already an unlimited supply of assholes?

  2. Interesting but pointless by db32 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It seems to me that the number of incidences where this could possibly be an issue is astronomically slim. Need picture of key, need to know where the key goes, and need the method of duplicating key with picture accurately enough to be of use. Then there has to be a pretty impresive reason why any of the other less complicated and faster ways of breaking in wouldn't be useful.

    --
    The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
    1. Re:Interesting but pointless by Reece400 · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'm sure a stalker could get get all except for 'method of duplicating key with picture accurately enough to be of use' without much work, now if the they happen to be reading slashdot today...

    2. Re:Interesting but pointless by JohnnyLocust · · Score: 5, Interesting

      There's a story from 2005 about a locksmith who made a copy of a key from an x-ray of some poor guy who somehow swallowed his key:

      http://www.boingboing.net/2005/06/25/locksmith-makes-key-.html

    3. Re:Interesting but pointless by zippthorne · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Not quite. Depending on the key, of course, all you need to do is get the code and figure out the style. Then you could get replacements sent to you from the manufacturer.

      In fact, some keys (I'm talking to you, cheap schlage locks) print the key code ON THE KEY, so you wouldn't even need to do any kind of fitting if the photo happened to be of the right side.

      But, of course, why bother having a particularly secure lock, when your all-metal steel-bolted door is right next to a 6 foot plate-glass bay window?

      --
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    4. Re:Interesting but pointless by zappepcs · · Score: 3, Informative

      How much more wrong could you be? Got an enemy? Drink in the same bars? Got a camera phone? ... is the idea sinking in?

    5. Re:Interesting but pointless by gstoddart · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It seems to me that the number of incidences where this could possibly be an issue is astronomically slim. Need picture of key, need to know where the key goes, and need the method of duplicating key with picture accurately enough to be of use.

      This wouldn't work for picking someone at random.

      However, if you wanted the keys to a specific place, it sounds like it would be entirely feasible to do a little targeted surveillance and get your key.

      Still, demonstrating that you can do it means someone will find a reason to do it.

      Cheers

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    6. Re:Interesting but pointless by JayAitch · · Score: 5, Funny

      But, of course, why bother having a particularly secure lock, when your all-metal steel-bolted door is right next to a 6 foot plate-glass bay window?

      For some new houses use a utility knife cut thru the vinyl siding, foam sheeting, and kick thru the drywall for easy access.

    7. Re:Interesting but pointless by db32 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because breaking in in the hundreds of other ways or just kicking my ass in the parking lot is FAR easier than going through all of that rigamarole. My point is this is probably the most difficult and time consuming method to achieve the goal with minimal benefit. That goes along the same lines of saying that gun control laws stop murder. If the criminal is going to commit murder with the gun, do you think it really matters to him that he is breaking the law by owning the gun?

      --
      The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
    8. Re:Interesting but pointless by John+Hasler · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Variations on that method would work on most frame houses built during the last fifty years but burglars still attack doors and windows. This, of course, is because most are remarkably stupid (intelligent criminals go into politics).

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    9. Re:Interesting but pointless by Blkdeath · · Score: 2, Insightful

      true but having a key would be a clean, easy, covert break in. It would be easy to get a picture of the key if you think about it, and knowing where it goes. The only thing is how easy and cost effective this technology would be. I still think it's kinda cool, but scary.

      Think about it and it's actually pretty simple. Let's say you have a burglar who wants to rob a particular house (or group of same). They're probably going to case the neighbourhood beforehand anyways and many of them will use a camera to get specific shots as memory aids. 200 feet away from a front door provides many areas of cover and a telephoto lens could provide the optical accuracy.

      Throw in the fact that many (most?) insurance companies won't pay out in the case of a break-in without signs of forceful entry and it is a pretty scary situation.

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    10. Re:Interesting but pointless by mlts · · Score: 2, Informative

      This is what Assa-Abloy's Cliq technology is for. The cylinder has a small chip which gets power from a battery on the key, and if the key is correct (it uses a challenge/response system to validate the key's serial number), it will retract a small solenoid. The rest of the cylinder is mechanical with the same pick resistance as the line its in, be it Abloy Protech, Mul T Lock, or Medeco.

    11. Re:Interesting but pointless by PitaBred · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's a lot easier to steal shit if no one has any idea you were there in the first place.

      Neighbor: "db32's on vacation... what are you doing here?"
      Thief: "Oh, he gave me a key to watch the house, see?"
      Neighbor: "Oh, alright then."

      Thief proceeds to park in the garage, load up car with everything, and leave, with days (or weeks) of lead time to unload stolen goods.

      It's not a bad idea to keep your keys from being photographed. People will use a much more difficult way of breaking in if it gives them a better chance of not getting caught.

    12. Re:Interesting but pointless by QRDeNameland · · Score: 2, Funny

      No wonder they told us not to bring cameras to all those Key Parties in the '70s. They saw this coming.

      --
      Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
    13. Re:Interesting but pointless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      There is a bit of plywood near the corners, but most of the house is vinyl, house wrap, insulation, then dry-wall. If

      What? If what?? Don't leave us hanging, NO CARRIER man!!
      (CAPTCHA is dramatic.)

  3. People put photos of their keys online? by hcdejong · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The mind boggles.

    1. Re:People put photos of their keys online? by Ma8thew · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There was a meme a while back, where people would post a photo of everything in their pockets (or handbag).

    2. Re:People put photos of their keys online? by Dun+Malg · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Doesn't anyone remember this one?:

      Diebold key reproduced from key: http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/02/06/1627220

      The real astounding thing about the Diebold key that he probably didn't realize was that he likely didn't need to duplicate the key, but rather need only look through his junk drawer. I'm a locksmith, and I can tell just from looking at the picture of the key that it's a National C415A. This is probably the most common cheap cam lock key in the US. The steel drawers in my service truck came keyed to C415A.

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
  4. As the saying goes... by cjfs · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Locks are to keep honest people out.

    1. Re:As the saying goes... by mcgrew · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Indeed; I'd rather they took a picture of my key with a telephoto lens and got in that way than to have them break a window. Unfortunately, thieves are lazy or they'd get a job and it's a hell of a lot asier to break a window or use a crowbar on the door than to go to the trouble of photographing your key.

      That's one thing I hate about my car - the goddamn "open trunk" button. Previous cars I'd leave the doors unlocked and nothing of value inside, and windows down if the weather permitted (because thieves are stupid and don't care about your property, they'll break the window just assuming it's locked).

      With that damned button all they have to do to break into my trunk is break the driver window and push the button. I'm wondering what lazy idiot designed that "feature"? Especially since there's another button to open the trunk on my keychain? Duh!!!!

    2. Re:As the saying goes... by jabelli · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My car ('03 Sentra) has a lever inside the trunk by the lock. When flipped down, the electronic trunk release no longer functions, and you must use the key lock to open the trunk. Maybe yours does, too; have you looked?

  5. Who? by whisper_jeff · · Score: 3, Funny

    Who uploads photos of themselves (or others) holding credit cards or keys? In my entire life, I don't think I've EVER even TAKEN a photo like that, let alone thought about sharing it. Am I just bizarre or is it the people on Flickr? Ok, admittedly it could be both, but still....

    1. Re:Who? by Captain+Spam · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's not so much holding the cards/keys, it's taking a picture where that's accidentally in the frame, and in fairly readable view. For an example, let's say you're selling something on eBay (insert obligatory Police Squad! joke here). It's not something that their stock pictures will cover, so you need to take a picture of it. Let's also assume that you don't have a photo studio handy, nor do you have an area of your house/apartment specially designed with a stage and neutral backdrop on which to take pictures, so you're taking the picture on your kitchen table, or an end table in the living room. All seem perfectly reasonable?

      That's where your problem might come in. Without even thinking about it, you might have left some clutter on the table. All you needed is space to put your object. It's all that clutter you need to worry about; suddenly, your car keys could show up all over the internet via an honest mistake. Or maybe a credit card bill with your address. Your credit card seems less likely, I'll admit, given most people keep those in their wallets, not in the open on tables, but still, the point stands.

      So it's not so much of stupid/drunk/stupid drunk people thinking it's a good idea to take a picture of them holding credit cards and car keys, it's more of a mistake of leaving things in the scene when taking a picture. And yes, people on Flickr are bizarre, but that's besides the point.

      --
      Demanding constant attention will only lead to attention.
  6. Eyeballing my Cadillac by pigiron · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I locked my Cadillac once and left my keys lying on the drivers seat. The locksmith successfully cut a new door key by hand just by looking at the key through the window.

    1. Re:Eyeballing my Cadillac by 77Punker · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A friend of mine during college used the same technique to duplicate a master key that fit most of the doors in our (somewhat small) school. He's always been an interesting character, though. That was several years ago and today he's a sysadmin but on the weekends he practices blacksmithing.

    2. Re:Eyeballing my Cadillac by pigiron · · Score: 2, Informative

      I beg your pardon (NOT you rude sonofabitch!) but it took him all of three or four minutes to do it and without damaging my window seals, internal door mechanisms, or setting off any alarm.

    3. Re:Eyeballing my Cadillac by ivan256 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Try that on any '90s/early 2000s Cadillac. You can probably successfully break the window motor or wires, but you won't be getting the door open. The lock mechanism is low, and forward in the doors, slides horizontally, and is behind a metal bar. It's not like the typical car lock which is an actuated metal rod near the top back corner of the door. You would have to know exactly what the inside of the door looked like, and have bends in exactly the right spots on the tool to get the door open, and you'd have to get lucky that you don't short something.

      It only takes a couple minutes to file some notches in brass. Probably less time than it takes to slim jim a Cadillac. And I know if I had the skills to eyeball something like that I'd show it off every chance I got.

    4. Re:Eyeballing my Cadillac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Do it the easy way.

      Go to Home Depot and buy a long, skinny steel tape (it's a flat piece of metal).

      Bring the tape and pliers to a car. Look through the window, see where the big lock button is. Usually next to the handle.

      Shape the tape with the pliers, slide the tape in through the back of the window, grab the lock button with the bent end of the tape, and pull.

      Bingo.

      I did that once, in snow, with an old T-square and a leatherman tool, and got into my pickup truck to get my keys back. It only took about ten minutes.

      I wrecked the T-square though.

    5. Re:Eyeballing my Cadillac by agrounds · · Score: 4, Funny

      I call bullshit.

      I've had locksmiths get my key out, and they have a flat piece of metal (cops carry them too) that they can slide down where the window goes and have the door open in five seconds. No need whatever to make a key to open it.

      Twenty bucks to come out to the car, a buck fifty for a new key. Yet he's going to go to that trouble to make a key?

      How fucking stupid do you think we are?

      Hello, and welcome to the Post-80s world! This is a brave new place where car doors are designed for this absolutely not to work any longer, even if you could get past all the crap and to the mechanisms. Also, we have this thing called the "internet" where you can see naked pictures. Oh, and Molly Ringwald is no longer hot.

      No. We still don't have flying cars.

  7. Fine, go ahead... by TheNecromancer · · Score: 4, Funny

    make copies of my keys. Have fun "playing" with my pitbull waiting for you on the other side of the door.

    --
    Attention all planets of the Solar Federation! We have assumed control! - Neil Peart
    1. Re:Fine, go ahead... by Kingrames · · Score: 3, Funny

      Clearly you are unaware that u38cg has taken the Improved Initiative feat.

      --
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  8. It works with Medeco keys too by davidwr · · Score: 2, Informative

    You mean like this, but from 200 feet away?

    It's only a matter of time before Google Maps 0wns your keys.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  9. Not really useful or scary, but interesting by ChenLiWay · · Score: 4, Informative

    Keys only serve to keep honest people honest. A lock pick and torsion bar can mimic any (average) key anyways.

    The story is interesting (on the subject of computer vision) but shouldn't scare anyone.

  10. Bump keys more practical by TheLink · · Score: 4, Informative

    The keys in the pic seem to be the crappy "2-D" sort that are vulnerable to "bump keys".

    It'll be much easier to just make a bump key and use it to break in covertly, than to bother making the "same key". Google for bump key videos.

    You'd probably need better pics to make duplicates of those "3-D" keys - those with wedges and so on.

    --
    1. Re:Bump keys more practical by mlts · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Chubb (the venerable English lock maker) actually has a prison lock where part of its construction is to make it resistant to eyeballing by inmates, so they can't memorize the cuts on it and create a copy with sheet metal or another source.

      Other than that, a few keys that are eyeball resistant that come to mind are the Shlage Primus, and the Medeco3 key, because someone would have to eyeball the slider, the pin depth cuts, and the angles of the cuts for the pins to rotate.

    2. Re:Bump keys more practical by TheLink · · Score: 3, Informative

      While it's true you can't "bump" Medeco3 locks and you can't "eyeball" them easily, the photo thing works (I'm not sure but the Shlage Primus looks vulnerable too). http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/08/medeco-locks-cr.html

      I wonder how easy it is to copy the Abloy style keys.

      New abloy key: http://www.abloyusa.com/images/execkey.gif

      Old: http://www.abloyusa.com/images/classickey.gif

      I'm guessing that for the classic key there's a small set of possible angles. If that's true you should be able to easily copy it from a photo (if you can see enough of the angles).

      --
    3. Re:Bump keys more practical by Archon-X · · Score: 2, Informative

      Disklock Pros are rather hard to copy.

      Taking eyeballing out of the picture - even if you have the code for the key on hand, your first problem is getting a blank.

      Blanks are restricted, but even if you manage to get your hands on them, they're pre-cut at the abloy factory [usually 2 pins] depending on your account with them - to prevent locksmiths with less scruples than others cutting abloys.

      Then of course, there's the machine to cut them. Even if you're filing by hand, the tolerances are fine, and the key configuration doesn't really take to soldering as regular keys do...

    4. Re:Bump keys more practical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Disklock Pros are rather hard to copy.

      Taking eyeballing out of the picture - even if you have the code for the key on hand, your first problem is getting a blank.

      Blanks are restricted, but even if you manage to get your hands on them, they're pre-cut at the abloy factory [usually 2 pins] depending on your account with them - to prevent locksmiths with less scruples than others cutting abloys.

      Nonsense! The laundry machines at my old apartment used an Abloy DiscLock. I made a compatible blank out of a mid-90's Saab key filed down to the shape of the keyway. It's pretty easy. Nothing like trying to duplicate the side milling of a restricted Medeco Biaxial key (though there's a Rolls Royce ignition key that'll pass the common Medeco G3 Biaxial with only minor adjustment). Restricted blanks only stop amateurs, and the Abloy DiscLock is hardly even sophisticated enough to be called "restricted". It's a half moon shape, sometimes with a half moon groove in the flat side.

      Then of course, there's the machine to cut them.

      The laundry key I made I filed by hand. A machine makes it downright simple, a complete no-brainer. Filing by hand if you know the specs is harder, but not prohibitively so. Trying to file a key when you DON'T know the specs will be nigh impossible, but if you don't know the specs, you're an amateur.

      Even if you're filing by hand, the tolerances are fine, and the key configuration doesn't really take to soldering as regular keys do...

      The tolerances aren't THAT fine. It's basically a wafer-class lock with stamped parts. It can't have fine tolerances. Granted, it's tougher if you don't have a sample lock to fit the key to, but it's not rocket science.

  11. Duplicating keys from an X-Ray by wfstanle · · Score: 3, Interesting

    That's nothing! On the Discovery Health channel there was a story about a man that swallowed his friend's car key. They were too drunk to drive home and he wanted to prevent his friend from driving while drunk. To make a long story short, the spare key was lost and they they were able to make duplicate keys from an X-Ray that clearly showed the key.

  12. Hubble's purpose! by line-bundle · · Score: 2, Funny

    I have a great idea: use Hubble to get a picture of the key to the universe and ask walmart to make it very cheaply.

  13. Ha! by TinFoilMan · · Score: 2, Funny

    Get into my house however you want, my wife is going through menopause, she's bi-polar, and she has my shotgun.

    --
    In my other life, I eat cats.
  14. A boon for swingers! by Mr.+Firewall · · Score: 5, Funny

    Remember the old days when swingers used to have "key parties?"

    For the young and innocent who have never been exposed to such debauchery -- they would get together and throw all the mens' motel room keys in a hat. Then the ladies would pick them out of the hat and go to that key's room....

    Well, now the possibilities for adultfriendfinder dot com have just been expanded... Just post a picture of your key and wait for your new friends to show up!

    --
    In times of universal deceit, telling the truth gets you modded -1 Troll
  15. I'll believe it when I see it. by ProppaT · · Score: 5, Funny

    I can't even get those chumps at home depot to give me a copy that works when they're using the original, much less a photograph.

    --
    Wise men say, "Forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza."
  16. Bump keys by thestuckmud · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Well the word is out on bump keys, which are an easier method of entry in most cases, yet burglaries are down. I don't see key photos as a particularly meaningful threat to most of us.

  17. Re:interesting.... by snowraver1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I think your efforts are in vain. You are way more likely to have some thug just break the door down or smash a window. Usually the people that break into your house do not have the foresight to plan to this degree.

    I think that a more valuable use of resources would be to recyle the tinfoil sitting on your head.

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  18. Who needs keys by Cthefuture · · Score: 5, Funny

    The best antitheft device on my car is the manual transmission. ;)

    --
    The ratio of people to cake is too big
  19. It will only work "Sometimes". by raijinsetsu · · Score: 2, Informative

    I have made thousands of key duplicates (family retail business), so I have a little knowledge in key duplication. Here's two bits of knowledge: 1) When you make a copy from the original key, the copy is, maybe, a hair off on either or both the pin offset and depth. Depending on the age and quality of the lock, this minor deviation can cause the key not to work. Copies from originals work (best guestimate) 99/100 times.
    2) Most people do not have their original keys anymore. They have 2nd, 3rd, or 4th generation keys. Every time you duplicate, the error multiplies just like using a photo-copier on a copy. With so much error, 3rd or later generations work (guestimate) 1 in 3 times.

    So, even if this technology can duplicate your key by photo, unless they bring the key back to a locksmith (who has a special jig for cutting new originals using pins instead of the key -- gets rid of the "signal noise") or the software already adjusts for the "signal noise", there's a good chance the key won't work. It all depends on the source key and the lock.

    I wouldn't be too worried about this.

  20. Broad daylight crimes by grahamsz · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've seen it done. Thieves backed a truck up to one of the homes in my neighborhood, opened the garage door, wheeled out the appliances and left.

    I saw it happen as did several other neighbors, but it was one of the showhomes the builder was trying to sell and we figured that they buyer probably wanted a different appliance option and they were just going to switch them out. In retrospect they probably went into the home when it was showing on the weekend and left a window unlatched.

    They did it on a weekday afternoon, broad daylight and wearing somewhat matching uniforms and they just blended in.