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Apple Plans To Make Chips For Handhelds
Preedit writes "Apple plans to get into the business of designing microprocessors for handheld devices, according to legal papers that are part of a dispute between IBM and one of its top technology executives. IBM is suing Power chip expert Mark Papermaster for allegedly violating a non-compete agreement and accepting a job at Apple. In court papers, IBM claims Apple wants Papermaster 'to design microprocessors for incorporation in a variety of electronic devices, including handheld devices.' The suit, according to Infoweek, also notes that Apple earlier this year bought out P.A. Semi. IBM thinks it knows why."
When you buy a mobile chip designer what else are you going to do with it?
Apple isn't using Power chips in any of its current computers, is it? The iPod and iPhone are ARM, and they're not making or shipping anything but x86-based Macs.
What am I missing?
I thought non-compete agreements were essentially usless... this is all this guy knows how to do, you can't stop him from making money to survive.
non compete employment agreement are not viewed very favorably in California.
http://www.boingboing.net/2008/08/08/california-supreme-c-1.html
http://www.workforce.com/section/03/feature/25/82/12/index.html
http://www.employlaw.com/noncompete.htm
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Remember, they did say that 1984 won't be like 1984.
And what was the last company that thought designing their own chips was a good idea.
NVidia right?
That ended in epic fail.
Non-compete agreements are such bullshit and should be illegal...
"Mark Papermaster"? What is it with all the oddball last names in the technology business? There's Faith Popcorn, but wikipedia says her birthname was Faith Plotkin. But "Papermaster" sounds like someone who should be running either a D&D game or Dunder Mifflin (or Wernham Hogg, I guess).
Nothing for 6-digit uids?
except non-compete agreements were ruled unconstitutional
And rightly so, I shall add. Non-compete agreements are total crap and I hope IBM gets smacked down hard in court over this frivolous lawsuit.
What, you thought I was going to support IBM on this one? Don't believe everything you read in the subject line ;o)
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
Apple chips are bland and only favored by dieters and health nuts. Now if the company was called 'Tortilla,' well, then...that would be delicious!
(-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
Power.org is the standards body that controls the POWER(PC) ISA specifications, among other things. Its members include IBM, *Apple*, Freescale and many others. If you want to build a custom designed chip based on one of the ISAs "owned" by Power.org, then all you need to do is become a member and license the ISA of your choice. You are then free to design any kind of custom *micro*-architecture your heart desires as long as the ISA presented by your chip/micro-architecture is compatible with the ISA you licensed from Power.org .
I want some of whatever the hell IBM is smoking.
jdb2
If you want to squirt your friends either get a Zune or buy a sex sling, but leave my Apple stuff alone.
Chip designing these days is like the child game you used to play called connecting the dots.
People use the term SoC(system on chip) to describe them. It's actually quite modular. Basically you can license a arm core or a mips core and put in all your other blocks(PCI, USB, ethernet) all on the same chip, so if Apple were to license the ppc architecture from IBM I'm sure IBM would be happy. I doubt thats what they are doing since the iPhone is based on ARM.
Not a lot of people design processors from scratch anymore.
Unless he designs the processor from scratch he's really not competing. I can't imagine apple doing something that stupid.
That article alludes to his experience with low power. He probably knows a few tricks on how to reduce power load. This is the expertise they are drawing from. He isn't competing with IBM; MIPS, ARM and intel is.
There are several types of licenses one can buy from ARM. The most expensive type, the type Apple is rumored to have acquired, is an architectural license, which allows one to design ones own CPU core. Why would Apple buy this expensive of a license if all they were going to do was "connect-the-dots"?
Mm mmh hmmmmm! Mmmh!%#FKML$NO CARRIER
So they could hype up the new design as "built from scratch", have the fanboys wet their pants, and then backdate their stock options appropriately.
So that's what that is! I thought my MacBook had just sprung a leak!
Currently hooked on AMP
They designed Multicore server chips based on IBM Power architecture. (Also Mot, err freescale G4 based SOC's) Too bad they couldn't get IBM to invest in Power licensing besides gaming consoles for Apple.
Here is their website, they seem like any design boutique - but especially a former IBM licensee - another slap, but where was IBM when Apple needed faster & low power portable notebook chips? Kissing game console makers asses is where...
They were all about loving IBM according to this copy of the website - now, maybe not so big on Power server chips... IBM made it's choices. http://web.archive.org/web/20070927205658/http://www.pasemi.com/
Engineers who simply "learn the trade then apply it" aren't the ones that have to sign non-competes. Those are the worker drones.
The ones who are smarter than their bosses and get paid to solve the problems their supervisors don't have the brainpower to solve are the ones who have to sign them.
The knowledge came from his brain to the company, not the other way around.
SoC?
Apple?
Handheld?
I'm seeing visions of PalmOS again (and Graffiti).
When you buy a mobile chip designer what else are you going to do with it?
The same you do when you buy a 3D graphics chips designer - not much? The only thing we see coming out of it is a person: Bob Mansfield - Senior Vice President, Mac Hardware Engineering
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
that he is in no way associated with the guy named "Pharmamaster".
Not quite true. A lot of companies still design microprocessors from scratch.
For example, look at Chinese Longsoon CPUs, nanochip, OpenCores, and so on. I also know that several CPUs are designed from scratch in Russia.
Obviously so that nobody else can buy a P.A. Semi chip (which is a low-powered version of the PowerPC 970), build the Powerbook G5 that Apple and IBM can't build, and basically telling Apple, "how do you like them apples?"
I also know that several CPUs are designed from scratch in Russia.
In Soviet Russia... oh - wait - nvm.
If you read any papers about PA Semi's previous iteration of power architecture, some things are of note. They designed it from the ground up with power in mind. They clock gate 20 -30 registers at a time. That's much more aggressive than most designs. There are several other methods used too. As a consequence they won a lot of design wins for mainly military hardware.
Now that they are part of Apple, some things should be noted. Apple was one of the original investors in ARM, so they have a cozy relationship likely. I can imagine that they are doing a ground up design of ARM with power in mind. This also allows them to design in DRM the right way. So nobody can jailbreak their ipod or iphone. This is what Microsoft did with their xbox360, they only got DRM right once their did their own chip.
if Apple were to license the ppc architecture from IBM ...
You do know that Apple was part of the AIM alliance that created the ppc. I don't believe they need to license it from IBM.
Life's a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
In the original post you were an obnoxious git, now you are pathetic. You really should have done that anonymously.
Semi-automatic amateur armchair Australian philosopher; conjecture ready at any moment...
if Apple were to license the ppc architecture from IBM ...
You do know that Apple was part of the AIM alliance that created the ppc. I don't believe they need to license it from IBM.
Yeah, I do know that. And I'm wondering why Apple is acquiring all of this PPC expertise when they're using ARM processors in their handhelds, and Intel in their computers.
You have to wonder if PPC plays any role in their future product plans. I'm not sure I see the logic of acquiring all kinds of PPC expertise to build ARM processors....
Not quite true. A lot of companies still design microprocessors from scratch.
For example, look at Chinese Longsoon CPUs, nanochip, OpenCores, and so on. I also know that several CPUs are designed from scratch in Russia.
And I think the fact that none of the rest of us have ever heard of those chips/companies proves the GP's point. Interesting, though. Thanks for sharing.
This author takes full ownership and responsibility for the unpopular opinions outlined above.
I think I qualify as 'one of the rest of us' here, and I've heard of them. A lot of chips that go into embedded devices don't get a ton of press.
Hold on, this is what IBM has put in this lawsuit. This NEW lawsuit. This lawsuit started AFTER the whole Power PC transition was complete. I know what was rumored THREE YEARS AGO, but why is IBM referring to it NOW?
So you're saying IBM claims they believe in a rumor that was proven false three years ago in a lawsuit filed today?
There's no such thing as PPC or ARM expertise. Once you get past the instruction decoder, you are designing an execution engine. The kind of workload you expect influences this design a lot more than the ISA.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Seems to me that if you work in a fairly specialized field, like microprocessor design, then pretty much your only choice to stay in the field when you leave your current employment is to go to a competitor; everyone else in the field is a competitor. It's pretty unusual for a court to enforce a clause which boils down to "if you leave the company you can't work in your field".
Well if you only look at "name brand" stuff advertised on tv, instead of the components that go into it :-)
Do you think your mouse runs by magic? No, it may well have an 8 bit CPU based on a *cut-down* 6502 (who needs a Y register after all...) by WinBond in it (or equivalent).
Admittedly the mighty ARM is all-conquering, but SunPlus group design their own chip which is (in various forms) in tens of millions or maybe hundreds of millions of toys on the shelves of Walmart. And finally they have admitted to its design with a website that actually contains real information! (Well probably not about the variants that have sound processing and graphics processing, but the core CPU is described. Now if only it described the object file relocation info format...).
And the ARM itself is getting a little... bloated... perhaps, after so many years.
Not likely. The 6502 is a particularly brain-dead architecture.
Your mouse is more likely to have a PIC or something, anything, newer than a 6502.
Well I was talking about optomechanical mice there (shining LEDs through a rotating grating, instead of video processing a picture of your desk), which might be a little out of date now, so if you have a new PC your mileage may vary. Winbond are/were a major manufacturer for mice chips based on 6502 chips lets say five years ago (no patents and licensing fees there), but this year they have been spun off into Nuvoton, which apparently uses the "CompactRISC 16" CPU from National Semiconductor. I guess 16 bits is so cheap now they can use it even for mice and keyboards. It looks roughly the same power as the chips I am using at the moment (hopefully less banking involved) which are doing rather more than managing a keyboard.
Apple is designing a dedicated chip to offload gayness from the CPU
Ha! Now I know what the "G" in "GPU" _really_ stands for.
-- Home is where you eat your heart out.
The 6502 sure was popular for a brain-dead CPU.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
If you don't sign on the first day of work, first thing, non competes are worthless in Oregon.