Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Cassini Could Find Signs of Life on Enceladus

Posted by kdawson on from the buddy-can-you-spare-some-methane dept.

New Scientist reviews the possibility that the Cassini probe might be repurposed to look for signs of life on Saturn's enigmatic moon Enceladus. "[Enceladus' water vapor] plume's origin is still being debated, but some models suggest the moon holds an ocean of liquid water beneath its surface. This ocean could be a potential habitat for extraterrestrial life. ... Though the probe was never designed to look for life, it could do so by studying organic chemicals such as methane in the plume, the team says."

126 comments

  1. Just imagine what could be there by ptbob · · Score: 2, Interesting

    With all the weird things we find on Earth, I wonder what could be in that water?

    1. Re:Just imagine what could be there by dreamchaser · · Score: 1

      I would not be surprised to find single celled life to be rather common given liquid water environments, a source of energy, and organic molecules. I'll be surprised when (if) anyone finds any complex life forms in our lifetime. I fully expect to live long enough to find evidence of current or former single celled life elsewhere in our Solar System.

    2. Re:Just imagine what could be there by CRCulver · · Score: 1

      With all the weird things we find on Earth, I wonder what could be in that water?

      One of the most poignant scenes in all of science fiction is the encounter between crashed astronauts and life on Europa in Arthur C. Clarke's 2010: Odyssey Two . Even though Clarke's powers as a novelist were failing even then, he gave an impressive vision of a possible Europan lifeform, something very unlike anything in our experience, though we could use basic metaphors like "trees". I wish I could find more science fiction with such truly other alien species. I really read a Vernor Vinge novel that had two humans on a world with species little distinguishable from wolves and pigs.

    3. Re:Just imagine what could be there by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Cells? Hell, I'd be happy with the discovery of precursors to amino acids and proteins. we have a lot to learn about how environments effect change as well as which envronments can and cannot spawn life.

      When people hypothesize about life forming on earth, they mention catalysts such as lightning strikes or volcanoes jump-starting chemical reactions. Not a far stretch of imagination given the thermophilic and cryophilic bacteria here on earth. Unfortunately, I don't think we should expect to find anything profound until we can load ourselves into a rocket, go there ourselves, and hope that we can return and analyze our samples without contaminating them.

    4. Re:Just imagine what could be there by pm_rat_poison · · Score: 2, Funny

      Maybe we'll find the Intelligent Designer with a supercomputer designing life on earth. All that vapor must come from water-cooling the circuits

    5. Re:Just imagine what could be there by von_rick · · Score: 1

      At -175C on the outer rings, its got to be even colder on the surface. If at all there is water on the surface, its frozen solid for gazillion years.

      --

      Face your daemons!

    6. Re:Just imagine what could be there by owlnation · · Score: 2, Funny

      With all the weird things we find on Earth, I wonder what could be in that water?

      It's a moon, so obviously... WHALES!!!

      Everybody sing: "we're whalers on the moon..."

    7. Re:Just imagine what could be there by CRCulver · · Score: 2, Insightful

      At -175C on the outer rings, its got to be even colder on the surface. If at all there is water on the surface, its frozen solid for gazillion years.

      Unless there is still geological activity beneath the surface, as there possibly is on several moons.

    8. Re:Just imagine what could be there by dreamchaser · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Precursors? They've already determined that complete amino acids can be found on carbonaceous asteroids. It's actually *easy* to make amino acids; the mystery is how amino and nucleic acids came together to form what we call life. My guess is given the right environment (liquid water, ingredients, and a source of energy) and enough time 'life' forms under a variety of other variables.

    9. Re:Just imagine what could be there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read Blindsight by Peter Watts.

      Some of the best science-based fiction I've read that imagines a truly alien "alien".

    10. Re:Just imagine what could be there by eclectro · · Score: 1

      With all the weird things we find on Earth, I wonder what could be in that water?

      Trash? Wrappers?

      --
      Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
    11. Re:Just imagine what could be there by An+ominous+Cow+art · · Score: 1

      I believe the 'wolves' you mention were a bit more interesting than that - each person actually consisted of a pack of 3-6? creatures, communicating among themselves via an ultrasonic network. A single 'wolf' was not very smart, but in their networks they formed a cohesive intelligent 'being'. Of course on top of that they had a pretty un-alien society, but I thought the pack+network=person idea was pretty neat.

      (If you're not talking about "A Fire in the Deep", ignore this - also I hereby disclaim that my memories of the novel might be a bit hazy; I read it when it was first published and not again since)

      I don't remember anything about pigs...

    12. Re:Just imagine what could be there by CRCulver · · Score: 1

      The Tines' group consciousness was indeed interesting. But not the shape of their bodies, which just happened to look terrestial, nor their behaviour with things like laughter and James Bond village-like smugness. Each Tine personality was basically a stock human character. The pigs were the Tines' enemies, whom Woodcarvers forces met on their way north.

    13. Re:Just imagine what could be there by sexconker · · Score: 0

      We're whalers on the moon!

    14. Re:Just imagine what could be there by dotancohen · · Score: 3, Funny

      With all the weird things we find on Earth, I wonder what could be in that water?

      Don't drink it.

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    15. Re:Just imagine what could be there by sexconker · · Score: 0

      We carry a harpoon!

    16. Re:Just imagine what could be there by CRCulver · · Score: 1

      Ugh, that should read "...James Bond villain..."

    17. Re:Just imagine what could be there by sexconker · · Score: 0

      But there ain't no whales

    18. Re:Just imagine what could be there by sexconker · · Score: 0

      So we tell tall tales

    19. Re:Just imagine what could be there by sexconker · · Score: 0

      And sing our whaling tune.

    20. Re:Just imagine what could be there by Gat0r30y · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The problem here is that right now we only have the one data point for the formation of life (our lonely blue marble). So we really haven't got a good idea of what is suitable for the formation of life, and so far our approach has been to assume that it must be pretty darn close to what we have here.

      --
      Prediction: The real iPhone killer is going to be sex robots from Japan. Think about it.
    21. Re:Just imagine what could be there by snowraver1 · · Score: 4, Informative

      There is a lot of heat that gets created from tidal action. The gas giants have such intense gravity that it warps the surface of the moons as they rotate around the planet. This shifting of the moon creates a lot of heat. Enough to have liquid water? Who knows.

      --
      Copyright 2010. All rights reserved. This comment may not be copied in any way including, but not limited to caching.
    22. Re:Just imagine what could be there by spun · · Score: 1

      With all the weird things we find on Earth, I wonder what could be in that water?

      Trash? Wrappers?

      Enchiladas? There simply have to be enchiladas on Enceladus, or my whole plan to set up an extraterrestrial enchilada mine is shot.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    23. Re:Just imagine what could be there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh... I thought it was part of the group-consciousness theme...

    24. Re:Just imagine what could be there by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      I like the idea of a James Bond village, where all are smug and making crappy martinis.

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    25. Re:Just imagine what could be there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's pronounced en-SELL-uh-dus, not en-CHILL-ah-dus.

    26. Re:Just imagine what could be there by Smauler · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Don't assume life will automatically exist where there is water and light. Just because the conditions for life are there, doesn't mean it's not a massive improbability that it starts. If the start of life was easy, we would have replicated it centuries ago. Personally, I would be very suprised if we see life in our solar system (apart from Earth). I do still hope to be suprised though... but not by a face consuming alien killer virus, obviously.

    27. Re:Just imagine what could be there by Fluffeh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not to totally go in the face of your post, but to counter your "massive improbability" comment. Yes, it's totally a massive improbability that life starts easily. However, what life has on it's side is TIME. Enceladus has been happily circling it's planet for millions of years. Sure, it's improbably that life was created there in the first minute. It's also improbably that just the right mix of ingredients was there the next minute - but the odds get better and better with every following minute that the right bunch of ingredients came along and life popped into existence from the precursors that were in the water. Given millions and millions of years, I would say that the chances don't look like a massive improbability, but more along the lines of a massive probability that at some point the right mix of things came together and made life of some sort. I would go so far as to say that I think it would be a massive improbability that the universe isn't simply teeming with life of all sorts.

      --
      Moved to http://soylentnews.org/. You are invited to join us too!
    28. Re:Just imagine what could be there by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's difficult to say whether it's improbable or not. We know that some pretty damned neat chemistry can take place where you have liquid water, complex organic compounds and a good source of energy. There are a number of bodies in the solar system that now appear to have at least the water and energy, and finding amino acids and other organic compounds in cometary bodies is a pretty good indicator that places like Enceladus and Europa probably have their fair share as well. The real difficulty is these worlds have really thick layers of ice, so getting a sample of what's in the oceans beneath would be a trick.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    29. Re:Just imagine what could be there by lysergic.acid · · Score: 1

      Solaris by Stanislav Lem is about contact between a group of human scientists and an alien lifeform that covers the entire surface of a planet.

      from the plot summary on Wikipedia:

      The novel is about the ultimately futile attempt to communicate with an alien life-form on a distant planet. The planet, called Solaris, is covered with a so-called "ocean" that seems to really be a single organism covering the entire surface. The ocean shows signs of a vast but strange intelligence, which can create physical phenomena in a way that science has difficulty explaining. The alien mind of Solaris is so inconceivably different from human consciousness that all attempts at communication are doomed (the "alienness" of aliens was one of Lem's favourite themes; he was scornful about portrayals of aliens as humanoid).

    30. Re:Just imagine what could be there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't assume life will automatically exist where there is water and light. Just because the conditions for life are there, doesn't mean it's not a massive improbability that it starts. If the start of life was easy, we would have replicated it centuries ago.

      First, we don't actually know what the chemistry of the first life was. So it's difficult to speculate about how improbable it was.

      What does "massive improbability" mean, anyway? It happens once a billion years? Once every ten thousand years? Neither are going to be easy to replicate in the lab, but one is going to happen a lot more often than the other.

    31. Re:Just imagine what could be there by aqk · · Score: 1

      Read your Richard Dawkins.

      If the probability of a "self-replicating" molecule to somehow spontaneously occur is, oh, let's say 10**112 (give or take five or six zeros or so), and the number of atoms in the Universe is 8*(10**88) (just a guess), then, hey, what's ten or twenty billion years between friends?

          Sagan's "billions and billions" start to look an awful lot like SMALL numbers- even in these days of financial bailouts etc, not to mention the age of this or that particular universe- in years OR seconds...

       

      --

      .
      - aqk
      F U /. illiterates.
    32. Re:Just imagine what could be there by aqk · · Score: 1

      But then, Americans have always had problems with European life-forms.

      --

      .
      - aqk
      F U /. illiterates.
    33. Re:Just imagine what could be there by rk · · Score: 1

      I think most people who are scornful of aliens being portrayed as humanoids have never had to manage the budget for a science fiction TV show. ;-)

    34. Re:Just imagine what could be there by An+ominous+Cow+art · · Score: 1

      That fits with what I remember. 'The Flenser' was the James-Bond-villain...

    35. Re:Just imagine what could be there by Varun+Soundararajan · · Score: 1

      I think that if we are looking for life, the statement that we are looking for life similar to earth is more accurate. With the current environment configuration on earth, we have not discovered life in non-carbon forms. But this does not provide any proof that there are no living organisms that cannot exist without carbon in them. What this implies is that we are jaundiced in our search for extra terrestrial life and we cannot comprehend or perceive life forms other than carbon. So, all our extra terrestrial search is actually searching for only a subset of possible life forms (of which we know only about carbon life forms, for the rest, we have no clue how they exist).

      Having said that, I'd consider it an arrogant statement to say that there are no life forms that exist other than on our planet. With such a huge vast expanse in the universe, it is simply a joke, if we say there are no other life forms. Its just that we have not come across, or we have not been able to perceive with our search system, if one exists already.

    36. Re:Just imagine what could be there by sznupi · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Problem is even bigger - our only data point shows us the place FEW BILLION YEARS after formation of first life here; which greatly affected the environment (presence of free oxygen, carbon cycle in the atmosphere regulating global climate, and so on...).

      Therefore, contrary to what you say in your last sentence, we can't assume at all that what is suitable for the formation of life is close to what we have here...simply because conditions on early Earth, when life formed, were so vastly different (and we're not sure EXACTLY what they were...)

      Actually, it's fairly safe to assume that, while current conditions on Earth are a good indication of presence of "old" organic life, they might actually hinder birth of new life (excluding memes taking over genes to such a degree that life becomes "technological")

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    37. Re:Just imagine what could be there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes,, What if the life form is invisible?
      S.R Santhosh

    38. Re:Just imagine what could be there by Weaselmancer · · Score: 1

      AC, I wish I knew who you were so I could thank you appropriately. I just found it online and read it. And it is positively brilliant.

      Thank you.

      --
      Weaselmancer
      rediculous.
  2. Methane? by VoxMagis · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Because in space, no one can hear you fart.

    --
    -- I really need to bleed off some of this /. karma.
    1. Re:Methane? by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because in space, no one can hear you fart.

      These are Saturnian farts. Much stronger than your average SBD.

    2. Re:Methane? by jollyreaper · · Score: 2, Funny

      Because in space, no one can hear you fart.

      More importantly, no one can smell it, either.

      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    3. Re:Methane? by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      If it's dense enough...

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    4. Re:Methane? by hyades1 · · Score: 1

      "These are Saturnian farts. Much stronger than your average SBD."

      This strength is a matter of concentration as a result of proximity to the source. Saturn, after all, is right next to Uranus.

      --
      I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
  3. Sounds nice but.... by blackholepcs · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The only problem with stories like this is that we either don't actually do it, or we DO do it and get results that tell us nothing useful (as far as the question of E.T. life). Why can't they just :

    1. Design and build rover/robot/probe whose sole task is to find and identify life on another planet/moon/whatever.
    2. Deploy said rover/robot/probe.
    3. Get definitive answer - Yes there is/yes there was actual life here, or No there isn't/no there wasn't actual life here.
    4. Rinse and repeat.

    Seriously, why is that so hard?

    --
    Halitosis - (n.) Halle Berry's Camel Toe.
    1. Re:Sounds nice but.... by internerdj · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Because ET life believers have been painted as nutjobs because of the outspoken ones who had ahem "close" encounters with ET life. Scientifically speaking it is certainly probable we could find something else, getting emotional taxpayers to fund something is an entirely different story. Especially with step 4.

    2. Re:Sounds nice but.... by blackholepcs · · Score: 1

      Whoa. Troll? Really? For an on-topic post? Wow. That's just awesome.

      --
      Halitosis - (n.) Halle Berry's Camel Toe.
    3. Re:Sounds nice but.... by moteyalpha · · Score: 1

      Whoa. Troll? Really? For an on-topic post? Wow. That's just awesome.

      That surprised me too, considering "In space no one can hear you fart" is okay. I would have said "If NASA smelt it, NASA dealt it". I thought your idea was very good. Jump right into that ocean and do a continuous stream analysis until it is either definitely positive or definitely negative.

    4. Re:Sounds nice but.... by dmomo · · Score: 1

      >> Especially with step 4.

      What's so hard about getting taxpayers excited about funding this step? Every one understands:

      4. Profit

      For real, though. There should be some campaign explaining to the layman (by who I mean, non-scientist / geek) what the actual benefits of life would be. Then we should maybe ask, suppose there are these benefits. What is the chance of finding life. Is the cost worth the statistical payoff? I'd imagine no. Because life would be so difficult to find / identify. Maybe then we need to also explain the benefits of *not* finding life. Are there any? I'm sure.

    5. Re:Sounds nice but.... by argent · · Score: 4, Interesting

      How do you know when you've found life?

      How do you distinguish between life and unusual chemical reactions?

      Sure, if a gnarled humanoid pops up and waves a glowing finger at you, you've found life, but what happens if you just find a brown stain that seems to be producing oxygen? Is it alive or a permanganate salt?

    6. Re:Sounds nice but.... by internerdj · · Score: 1

      If you get a definative answer of No out of step 3, who is going to want to fund more trips or more trips to different locations with the same goal? Although a definative No would be a start to give corporations free reign to strip resources out of a planet or moon or asteroid rather than here where they are destroying existing life.

    7. Re:Sounds nice but.... by SpacePirate20X6 · · Score: 1

      Brown stain? Or hyper-intelligent shade of blue?

    8. Re:Sounds nice but.... by russ1337 · · Score: 1

      Step 4. Profit: Big Company* patents/copyrights/trademarks the extra-terrestrial life.

      Disney - toys & Merch
      Monstanto - genes & DNA to spice into our food
      Big Pharma - new Drugs for our baldness
      Big record - a new kind of music
      etc

    9. Re:Sounds nice but.... by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 1

      As someone has already noted, determine what is and is not life is already difficult with terrestrial cases (which presumably are all somewhat related, far enough back in time). Trying to guess what will be "life" on a celestial body is even worse. However, another problem arises and that's scope. For a Mars mission, you might get away with such a narrow objective, but for the outer solar system merely getting there is so expensive that to launch a spacecraft with only one objective like that would probably not fly. In the very least, people want to see imaging and other scientific capabilities (and other science objectives) to make it worth the launch cost.

    10. Re:Sounds nice but.... by dmomo · · Score: 1

      Or, a definitive "No" might lead to the question, "are there ample resources to support our life". That way we could colonize without putting other life (and our own) at risk by cross-contamination.

    11. Re:Sounds nice but.... by krgallagher · · Score: 1
      "1. Design and build rover/robot/probe whose sole task is to find and identify life on another planet/moon/whatever."

      A big part of the problem is "How do you define life? Add to that the fact that we are often looking for evidence of past life and you have quite a complex puzzle to solve.

      It gets more complex as you go. The universe is vast. It is easy to say "Deploy said rover/robot/probe." but deploy it where. We do not have the resources to explore even our entire galaxy, let alone the universe.

      --

      Insert Generic Sig Here:

    12. Re:Sounds nice but.... by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Monsanto

    13. Re:Sounds nice but.... by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      How do you distinguish between life and unusual chemical reactions?

      What about the fact that life is pretty much a series of unusual chemical reactions? ;-)

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    14. Re:Sounds nice but.... by Rakishi · · Score: 1

      If there is life on those moons then it's under a kilometer+ of ice and probably under another many kilometers of water (I think there is over 50km of ice and water covering that moon). If there is life on mars then it's either dead (ie: used to be life), well hidden or very scarce. Sending a probe out randomly will simply say that whatever desolate spot it hit doesn't have life. Probes are expensive to make, expensive t send places and slow in getting there so you have to aim them well. Thus you get into the lovely game of trying to look for indirect signs of life and then debating if it actually points to life.

    15. Re:Sounds nice but.... by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 1

      Seriously, why is that so hard?

      It's not hard, as long as enough people like you, send in their checks.

      But nobody puts their wallet where their mouth is.

      --
      "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
    16. Re:Sounds nice but.... by SlashDev · · Score: 1

      The only problem with that is that those rovers must be built differently for different planets, because of atmospheric variations. This is very costly. It really is all about money (or the lack of it). The technology exists.

      --

      TOP DSLR Cameras Reviews of the top DSLRs
    17. Re:Sounds nice but.... by dotancohen · · Score: 2, Funny

      ...but what happens if you just find a brown stain...

      Please, enough about the Ubuntu wallpaper already!

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    18. Re:Sounds nice but.... by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      How do you distinguish between life and unusual chemical reactions?

      Generally its a matter of upping the exploration expenditure and attention. The more it looks like actual life, the more follow-up experiments are sent. It would keep ramping up each time until a near definitive conclusion was found (or the money all spent).

      The Mars life question kind of was dropped when people discovered possible non-organic explanations to the unusual Viking results. If they didn't find those alternatives, then a follow-up mission may have happened fairly soon afterward. (Although verifying the actual in-place mechanism for the possible fake-out has yet to take place.)

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
    19. Re:Sounds nice but.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given their Monstrous behaviour, Monstantosounds abut right.

    20. Re:Sounds nice but.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well for one thing, it's inorganic.

      As far as I know, we don't have ways to detect inorganic life, do we?

      Detecting life that is organic, on the other hand--while not simple--is trivial compared to our attempt to identify inorganic life.

    21. Re:Sounds nice but.... by blind+biker · · Score: 1

      Youse a (relatively) simple confocal optical microscope. It's not _that_ hard. Just LOOK at the damn samples.

      --
      "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    22. Re:Sounds nice but.... by argent · · Score: 1

      Just LOOK at the damn samples.

      That test has already failed on Earth, at least on "fossils" that turned out to be inorganic.

    23. Re:Sounds nice but.... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Just be sure to sterilise the probe[1]. Otherwise the answer could be "Yes, there is life there ... now".

      [1] it's left as an exercise for the reader to insert a Uruanus joke here.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    24. Re:Sounds nice but.... by mustafap · · Score: 1

      >As far as I know, we don't have ways to detect inorganic life, do we? If they land in a space ship and start shooting at us, then I would consider them detected, organic or not.

      --
      Open Source Drum Kit, LPLC deve board - mjhdesigns.com
    25. Re:Sounds nice but.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That has historically been the problem. People are still debating the results of the Viking tests 30 years later, and they were as definitive as you could get at the time.

      No matter what tests you come up with, until you have a recognizable organism you can pick up with some tweezers, someone will find a bizarre explanation of how what you found isn't really life just to be vexing.

    26. Re:Sounds nice but.... by Zakabog · · Score: 1

      The only problem with stories like this is that we either don't actually do it, or we DO do it and get results that tell us nothing useful (as far as the question of E.T. life). Why can't they just :

      1. Design and build rover/robot/probe whose sole task is to find and identify life on another planet/moon/whatever.

      2. Deploy said rover/robot/probe.

      3. Get definitive answer - Yes there is/yes there was actual life here, or No there isn't/no there wasn't actual life here.

      4. Rinse and repeat.

      Seriously, why is that so hard?

      Life on another planet may be so far removed from life on our own planet that detecting it becomes close to impossible. How do you know what to look for unless you've seen it before? You can determine "No, there is no life AS WE KNOW IT existing on this celestial body" but that doesn't really answer the question of whether or not there is life at all.

    27. Re:Sounds nice but.... by blind+biker · · Score: 1

      Umm... OK, but the tests devised so far are, anyway, looking for active (non-fossilized) life. Though you do have a point.

      --
      "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
  4. Extra-terrestrials living in the oceans by mfh · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Extra-terrestrials will taste good with some fava beans, and a nice Chianti.

    --
    The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
    1. Re:Extra-terrestrials living in the oceans by Coraon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      actually if its living in cold water and it is on the primitive scale my guess is it'll look like a freaky lobster, so it will probably go better with a white wine and a nice butter sauce...

      --
      -Ours is the wisdom of Solomon, the magic of Merlyn, the fall of Icaris.
    2. Re:Extra-terrestrials living in the oceans by mfh · · Score: 1

      it'll look like a freaky lobster, so it will probably go better with a white wine and a nice butter sauce...

      These are extra-terrestrials, not terrestrial lobsters. They have red meat, magically. Plus red meat is more likely to host higher functioning mammalian lobsters than typical crustacean chicken meat. Dolphin meat tastes more like steak than shark meat, due mostly to the higher brain functions found in dolphins. LOL

      --
      The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
    3. Re:Extra-terrestrials living in the oceans by FluffyWithTeeth · · Score: 1
      Dolphin meat tastes more like steak than shark meat, due mostly to the higher brain functions found in dolphins.

      I'd hazard a guess that it has far more to do with the fact that dolphins are mammals, and sharks are fish.

  5. Just go to Taco Bell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I am sure their Enceladus are teaming with bacteria from the unwashed hands of the employees who prepare them.

    1. Re:Just go to Taco Bell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The headline *had* made me hungry.

    2. Re:Just go to Taco Bell by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Hmm. Now that you mention it, Jupiter's Io looks like a spherical pizza.

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
    3. Re:Just go to Taco Bell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Now that you mention it, Jupiter's Io looks like a spherical pizza.

      Damn the weird shit you find on the 'net:

      http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/galileo/mess41/iopizza.html
           

  6. It's not life, it's a monolith! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not Japetus, and I'm not there, but

    My God! It's full of stars!

  7. Monty Python by krgallagher · · Score: 1
    "[Enceladus' water vapor] plume's origin is still being debated"

    Maybe it is a norwegian blue parrot. They have lovely plumage.

    --

    Insert Generic Sig Here:

  8. sign of life by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the only "sign of life" you'll find in space is when humans start expanding beyond their little bubble.

  9. On the other hand... by alexborges · · Score: 5, Funny

    It may NOT find life there...

    Wow, the things that happen in this crazy solar system.

    --
    NO SIG
    1. Re:On the other hand... by Mistshadow2k4 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah, that's kind of what I thought. Could? They could find some strange new form of life in my purse or any single man's refrigerator.

      --
      I dream of a better world... one in which chickens can cross roads without their motives being questioned.
    2. Re:On the other hand... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +1 female and posting on Slashdot

    3. Re:On the other hand... by alexborges · · Score: 1

      Careful! Get your head out of my fridge girl....

      You might loose it to the dragons living within!

      --
      NO SIG
  10. Laughed at in college by Mr.+McGibby · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I wrote a paper in a college astronomy course where I speculated that Enceladus might have life given the water there. I was given a lower grade because of it.

    Vindication is sweet.

    --
    Mad Software: Rantings on Developing So
    1. Re:Laughed at in college by hansraj · · Score: 1

      Isn't it too early for you to start gloating?

    2. Re:Laughed at in college by sexconker · · Score: 4, Funny

      That's what you get for thinking in college.

    3. Re:Laughed at in college by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I wrote a paper in a college astronomy course where I speculated that Enceladus might have life given the water there. I was given a lower grade because of it. Vindication [of the idea] is sweet.

      The founder of Federal Express allegedly got a "C" for the company's idea outlined in an economics project.
           

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
    4. Re:Laughed at in college by Mr.+McGibby · · Score: 1

      No. It isn't. I would explain...

      --
      Mad Software: Rantings on Developing So
    5. Re:Laughed at in college by dotancohen · · Score: 1

      The founder of Federal Express allegedly got a "C" for the company's idea outlined in an economics project.

      Einstein failed math, too.

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    6. Re:Laughed at in college by grahamd0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, because mainstream scientists believe that his speculation has enough merit that they're willing to commit time and money to find out if it's correct.

      That is, I took his post to mean that he was vindicated in the sense that he was making a valid line of inquiry, rather than making up crackpot theories that deserve to be modded down by a teacher.

    7. Re:Laughed at in college by grahamd0 · · Score: 1

      The founder of Federal Express allegedly got a "C" for the company's idea outlined in an economics project.

      ...and then went on to ruin Kinkos.

    8. Re:Laughed at in college by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      For the idea or for a mediocre job of presenting the idea?

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    9. Re:Laughed at in college by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Einstein failed math, too.

      "Failing" is relative
           

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
    10. Re:Laughed at in college by aqk · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry- but I had to mod you "overrated"

      (Just for old time's sake)

      --

      .
      - aqk
      F U /. illiterates.
    11. Re:Laughed at in college by Hillgiant · · Score: 1

      They LAUGHED at me at the Academy. LAUGHED.

      MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

      --
      -
    12. Re:Laughed at in college by Mr.+McGibby · · Score: 1

      For the idea. I thought that was obvious. Do you want me to explain the whole thing?

      --
      Mad Software: Rantings on Developing So
  11. New close-up pictures of Enceladus taken last week by sighted · · Score: 3, Informative

    Just a few days ago, Cassini buzzed close by Enceladus and took high-res shots of the fissures where the geysers originate. Earlier this month during an even closer pass, the spacecraft took direct samples of the plume.

    --
    Saddle up: Riding with Robots
  12. Re:MY GOD by sexconker · · Score: 1

    Twitter alt confirmed.

  13. Misleading Summary by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think that the summary (and to a lesser extent, the story) only accurate if you don't think that Cassini is already looking for signs of life on Enceladus. In fact, Enceladus has become (with Titan) one of the most important mission objectives for Cassini. As the story points out, the kind of data that would help address the possibility of life has already been collected (and will no doubt continue to be collected).

    In other words, this isn't repurposing, it's a story about what's already being done.

    1. Re:Misleading Summary by Tablizer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      In fact, Enceladus has become (with Titan) one of the most important mission objectives for Cassini.

      One downside to the life idea is that some speculate that Enceladus's warm condition may be periodic due to a recent but no-longer-existing orbit arrangement with another moon(s). If this is the case, then the moon may not stay warm long enough for life to get a foothold. While earth life is capable of "hibernating" in frozen conditions between cycles, it probably took a while before it got sophisticated enough to pull such tricks.

      Thus, Jupiter's Europa is still the better bet in my opinion because the source of its heat (for liquid water) is known and fairly stable. As I remember it, simulations show that it's tidal friction with Jup and nearby moons is sufficient to generate needed internal melting. This is not the case with Enceladus. It's heat source is still a mystery.
           

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
    2. Re:Misleading Summary by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It depends on how long the warmth lasts. Life on Earth arose fairly quickly after things got habitable. (A few hundred million years is, I believe, now the best figure.) So it's possible for Enceladus to develop life quickly, too, if conditions were suitable.

      Also, you're forgetting the issue of accessibility. Europa's liquids are under at least a kilometer of ice, perhaps as much as ten kilometers. Enceladus's liquids are not only probably near the surface (tens to hundreds of meters), they're spewing into space so that no drilling is even required to reach them.

      Also-also: the models I've been seeing lately seem to suggest that the heat here may be related to primordial heating. In that case, Enceladus may have been warm for a very long time, longer than Europa even. (The latter requires Ganymede and Io's joint resonance with it to keep its eccentricity high enough to cause the tidal flexing that produces heat. That resonance was likely not primordial, although I've seen suggestions that it could have been.)

    3. Re:Misleading Summary by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Life on Earth arose fairly quickly after things got habitable.

      Arising quickly and being able to hibernate (or sporify) for long periods of time are two different things.

      Also, you're forgetting the issue of accessibility ... they're spewing into space so that no drilling is even required to reach them.

      True. But couldn't methane etc. also be detected by spectrographing Europe's surface from orbit? The suspected upflows seen on its surface would have such compounds it would seem. Why would spectrographing mist be better than spectrographing the surface? There's no atmosphere to interfere, so the distance shouldn't make a significant difference. Unless maybe you are referring to a new probe with a collection box. Or maybe radiation breaks down organic compounds laying around on the surface beyond detection.

      the models I've been seeing lately seem to suggest that the heat here may be related to primordial heating.

      Enceladus is a small moon, something like 1/7 the mass of Europa. This is hard to swallow unless it somehow got an extra dose of long-decaying heavy elements. Even Mars has pretty much cooled inside (by most models). Tidal heating looks like the better candidate.

      Interesting either way.

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
    4. Re:Misleading Summary by djradon · · Score: 1

      Better bet for life, sure. But more mystery sounds like a better place for closer examination if we can only afford one.

    5. Re:Misleading Summary by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 1

      Arising quickly and being able to hibernate (or sporify) for long periods of time are two different things.

      You miss the point. If life arises in a few hundred million years, if Enceladus were only active that long, that's enough for there to be a chance. A hundred million years is fast over solar system timescales.

      Why would spectrographing mist be better than spectrographing the surface?

      You answered your own question: you can sample the mist in-situ and examine it when it's pristine (before radiation and other damage has affect it and before outside contaminants can interfere). Actual in-situ measurements are often better, and certainly helpful, since molecular spectra, especially surface spectra, are seldom unambiguous in the real world. (Seriously, there are huge arguments about what certain features are where both (or all) camps can point to lab measurements that show that their compounds can reproduce the spectra quite well, thank you.)

      Tidal heating looks like the better candidate.

      Sorry, I wasn't clear. The initial heat from formation/short lived radioactive isotopes would provide enough heat to make the ice ductile enough for tidal flexing to go to work and keep it warm. The problem with Enceladus is that once it freezes solid, it's hard to warm it up, even in a resonance. Anyway, that was the gist of what I saw a short while ago, if memory serves.

    6. Re:Misleading Summary by Convector · · Score: 1

      Tidal heating is only effective on Enceladus if a) the ice is already warm to start out with and b) the ice shell is decoupled from the core by a subsurface ocean. It turns out it's really hard to keep the ocean from freezing even with tidal heating. Once you freeze solid, the tidal dissipation rate plummets and you can never get out of it (without some additional heat source). So you've got to either form hot and stay hot from Solar System formation until now, or have some additional heat source. A giant impact might do it, but impacts are the last refuge of the scoundrel since the impact must have happened relatively recently for us to be seeing the thermal effects.

  14. Re:New close-up pictures of Enceladus taken last w by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 3, Informative

    The original story is at CICLOPS. (I spent all day Saturday helping get that stuff together.)

  15. Re:New close-up pictures of Enceladus taken last w by sighted · · Score: 1

    Congratulations on another amazing fly-by, and thanks for posting the pix so quickly for us all to enjoy.

    --
    Saddle up: Riding with Robots
  16. Re:New close-up pictures of Enceladus taken last w by vivin · · Score: 1

    I swear, at first I read the name of that fissure in the photograph as "Baghdad Sucks" instead of "Baghdad Sulcus".

    --
    Vivin Suresh Paliath
    http://vivin.net

    I like
  17. Re:New close-up pictures of Enceladus taken last w by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 1

    Thanks and we're happy to do it. (We just like to make sure that they get seen, so I pimp them a bit. :-)

  18. Re:New close-up pictures of Enceladus taken last w by OriginalArlen · · Score: 1

    w00t! I spent all day (my) Sunday refreshing UMSF and waiting for the links and commentary and that. Thanks a lot for the fast posting of the data, it's appreciated! :)

    --

    Everything I needed to know about life, I learnt from Blake's Seven
  19. The 'Signs of Life' headline is a scam. by spiracle · · Score: 1

    I think this whole 'signs of life' headline is just spin to get people interested in what would otherwise be a very dry story. I.e. it is there so that the media has a catchy sound-bite.

    I remember back when the mars rovers made the news, you could count on the phrase 'signs of life' to be in the headline, or in the first sentence summary.

    I don't believe that nasa thinks there is a solid chance of life being discovered, it is more of something that they can say to sell funding for scientific instruments to politicians.

  20. I, for one... by mfh · · Score: 1

    I for one welcome our mammalian lobster under-lords! (in my frying pan, with butter)

    --
    The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
  21. Obligatory: The 2ND time, dammit! by aqk · · Score: 1

    what happens if you just find a brown stain that....

    Excuse me, but were we discussing Uranus? ... damn, this is getting repetitive!

         

    --

    .
    - aqk
    F U /. illiterates.
  22. What about.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What about Uranus?

    Sorry, couldn't help it.

  23. Waiter, waiter... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cassini Could Find Signs of Life on Enceladus

    I say, waiter... there's a fly on my enchilada.

  24. Spoiler warning! by argent · · Score: 1

    What about the fact that life is pretty much a series of unusual chemical reactions? ;-)

    Way to give away the surprising twist at the end.

  25. Once Upon a Planet Dreary by argent · · Score: 1

    Once upon a planet dreary
    Came a rocket engine cheery
    On a flight to test a theory
    On Mars's frigid desert floor!
     
    Did life arise spontaneous
    Or some alien's trash extraneous
    Seed the globe that now contains us?
    Quoth the Lander, "Either-or."

    (if anyone has a scan of the original, published in Asimov's back in the '70s, I'd appreciate it)

  26. Correction: by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    No one else can smell it, it'll be trapped in your spacesuit for a good long time. This then comes back to "no one can hear you scream"

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  27. [1] by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    Unless you're sending the probe to Uranus (for some reason), in that case don't bother with the cleaning, just make sure the exterior is well-lubricated or you'll be sorry. Also if you want to pick up anything on camera, fit the probe with lights (with wipers), 'cuz that place doesn't get a lot of sunlight.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel