"Minority Report"-Like Control For PC

An anonymous reader writes "A startup named Mgestyk Technologies claims that they have an affordable solution for 'Minority Report'-like PC control. They have released a video in which they use hand gestures to play games like Halo and Guitar Hero, as well as perform 'multi-touch' interactions for applications like Google Earth. Engadget and Gizmodo discuss the potential of the technology but point out that the system has visible lag when used for gaming. Will camera-based interfaces ever meet the low-latency demands of gaming? For how much longer will we still be using keyboards, mice and joysticks?"

Comments

Porno

[thetoadwarrior]

I definitely want Minority Report-like hand controls for porno.

Re:Porno

[LandDolphin]

Nah, it will break as it keeps going back and forth between FW and Rew.

Re:Porno

[rhizome]

I definitely want Minority Report-like hand controls for porno.

Yeah man, remember the controls for zooming? Wakka wakka!

Re:Porno

[sdpuppy]

No - for your particular application you'd want something like this:
http://inition.com/inition/product.php?URL_=product_glove_vti_grasp&SubCatID_=26

CyberGrasp haptic feedback interface - its a cyberglove with tactile feedback

In other words, (RTFL)

With the CyberGrasp force feedback system, users are able to explore the physical properties of computer-generated 3D objects they manipulate in a simulated 'virtual world.'

The difference between that and the "Minority Report" type interface is like the difference between IMax 3D and print media.

I suppose it depends on what you prefer.

Re:Porno

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Not specialized enough: this really puts the "Human interface" in "USB HID".

Re:Porno

[jepaton]

One problem - it's non tactile. But with some further programming the system could be operated like a joystick.

Re:Porno

[billcopc]

The interactive Diltron is a moving dong that follows your thrusting action stroke for stroke and gives the girl on the other end of the connection the screw of her life.

FUFME, anyone ?

Re:Porno

[Ihmhi]

From the link:

If you already have a Fleshlight use this Plug and Play kit to make it interactive. Simply unscrew the cap from your fleshlight and screw our cap on. Then plug the USB cable into your computer and you are ready to go. Includes free game.

And how!

Re:Porno

[Anonymous Coward]

I definitely want Minority Report-like hand controls for porno.

Yeah man, remember the controls for zooming? Wakka wakka!

More important the "scale" controls.

Re:Porno

[mcneely.mike]

Oh MAN, it's not gnu/Linux compatible... it's no wonder slashdotters aren't getting any!

Re:Porno

[Anonymous Coward]

Mine keeps making the volume go up and down. Maybe you're doing it wrong?

Re:Porno

[lamapper]

Oh MAN, it's not gnu/Linux compatible... it's no wonder slashdotters aren't getting any!

Hey McNeely, you can always start the next Open Source project with it! ;-) Then you can add in those body-sensor suits and expand the project to even more.

Of course the latency can match

[geekoid]

, it will just require faster cameras with better movement algorithms.

There reals question is do people want to stand there and point at the air with no tactile feed back?

Re:Of course the latency can match

[Anonymous Coward]

That's right. Factory control and QA systems use machine vision in extremely low latency applications now. The issue is whether it is desirable enough to fund the development and reach economies of scale in production...

Re:Of course the latency can match

[thetoadwarrior]

It would be healthier and yes I think people do want it. They don't mind looking like complete twats talking on their blue tooth headset or walking around with fanny packs and those two things along are more embarrassing than doing Minority Report-like hand movements, imo.

Re:Of course the latency can match

[holophrastic]

People seem to think that keyboards and mice are lower on the totem pole than hand gestures. That's just rediculous. Hand gestures are all but useless for the vast majority of interfaces, and it has nothing to do with latency or technology in general. I've been yelling at minority report since it was released. Have you ever tride boxing? At your local fitness gym for example? You can't keep your arms up for an hour -- your shoulders aren't built for it. Ten minutes of using hand gestures, and you'll be too exhausted to work anymore.

Aside from physical strength, there's the obverse side of the coin. If you did have the muscles to hold up your arms, they'd be too strong for any degree of precision. Keyboards have a great feature besides tactile feedback -- they have discrete commands. If you try to press the letter "T", you aren't going to miss. You'll know that you've pushed it. And if you do miss, you'll know that you've missed.

Consider trying to draw a straight line with hand gestures. It's going to be nearly impossible. Really easy with a keyboard.

All of these "advanced" interfaces are nice for some specific scenarios, and tehy are all great gimmicks for consumer garbage. But they are rarely appropriate for real business. Voice recognition is a great example. There's one simple proof to why voice recognition won't ever be a as accurate as a keyboard -- talking isn't as accurate as writing. It's that simple. People mis-speak, and mis-hear all the time. Would you accept a voice recognition system that interupts you to say "sorry, what was that last word? I missed that." Of course not.

Voice recognition certainly has uses, of course. If you lack fingers, or the space for a keyboard, or your hands are busy doing other things -- like flying a fighter jet -- certainly. But if you're composing an essay, or a report, or doing anything where accuracy matters. . .why not type up your resume by throwing a frisbee -- one foot for the letter A, two feet for the letter B., and so on.

"pushing a button" is incredibly simple, incredibly easy, direct, and discrete. It's quantifyable, by all parties.

Re:Of course the latency can match

[Anonymous Coward]

But keyboards and mice just aren't "cool" now.
Its all about gestures! Get with the times gramps!

But seriously, it can have its uses.
- Organization due to being able to work with loads of things using two hands.
- modelling - could easily create a precise movement mode)
  Could also add a tactile feedback glove with this to have an actual feel for the model you are creating.
Generally just things that require clicks over precision really.
Multi-focus interfaces are much more appealing than single-focus. (Google Earth example... as a good example)
Also, you don't need to hold your arms in mid-air, just sit them on your desk, simple.

I'd still rather have a mind-reader though.
And that good one (forgot the name, NOT Neuro-fail) with loads of inputs that can be trained fairly easily - unless you are as dense as a rock - looks interesting.

Re:Of course the latency can match

[FishWithAHammer]

What you describe is called the "gorilla arm problem", in some circles.

http://catb.org/jargon/html/G/gorilla-arm.html

Re:Of course the latency can match

[sexybomber]

You can't keep your arms up for an hour -- your shoulders aren't built for it. Ten minutes of using hand gestures, and you'll be too exhausted to work anymore.

Who says you have to keep your arms up? You could have something like a Surface to replace the keyboard and mouse that sit on the (real, physical) desktop, and also make the screen itself touchable. It might be weird switching between the two, but I'm imagining something like a kiosk, perhaps with an adjustable-height "keyboardish" surface.

Why yes, I have been smoking, how'd you guess?

Re:Of course the latency can match

[ross.w]

I don't think the majority of slahdotters used to one handed surfing would have a problem with this.

Re:Of course the latency can match

[Bieeanda]

We have the cameras, at least. A friend of mine works for an outfit that develops drivers for them and related capture boards. The real problem is expense (which always tends to decrease-- just look at optical media technology) and demand. We may have the tech, but if people decide that their current interfaces are good enough, then it's going to go nowhere.

Re:Of course the latency can match

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

You can't keep your arms up for an hour -- your shoulders aren't built for it. Ten minutes of using hand gestures, and you'll be too exhausted to work anymore.

I think you have discovered the cure for the fitness problem among geeks and office workers alike.

Consider trying to draw a straight line with hand gestures. It's going to be nearly impossible. Really easy with a keyboard.

While I agree in principal with your beef, I totally disagree with this example.

You assume that the hand-gesture interface for line drawing is going to look as closely like actually drawing a line as possible. That would be a terrible design decision and other than in the movies where there is dramatic effect, I don't think anyone would be so foolish as to implement it that way. A smart implementation would conform to what is easy for a human to do -- like one finger poke for the start of the line and another finger poke for the end of the line that follows your finger around until you poke even deeper in order to indicate that is where you want the end of the straight line to be.

Re:Of course the latency can match

[ScrewMaster]

I don't think the majority of slahdotters used to one handed surfing would have a problem with this.

I disagree. In that application, they're still using a joystick.

Re:Of course the latency can match

[AnyoneEB]

Voice recognition certainly has uses, of course. If you lack fingers, or the space for a keyboard, or your hands are busy doing other things -- like flying a fighter jet -- certainly. But if you're composing an essay, or a report, or doing anything where accuracy matters. . .why not type up your resume by throwing a frisbee -- one foot for the letter A, two feet for the letter B., and so on.

You seem to be sorta getting to the point here: use the right tool for the job. For normal text entry and most graphical interfaces, keyboard and mouse are the right tools. For applications like "sounds like" dictionary/spell check lookup or text entry on a device too small for a keyboard or when your hands are otherwise occupied (say, driving or, as you suggest, flying a jet), voice recognition (or subvocalization) is more likely to be the right tool. Other posters have suggested that when you want to manipulate a physical object on screen, multitouch works well, probably much better than a mouse combined with keyboard commands. I am sure there are other instances where it would be the optimal control method.

Currently most (computer) interfaces are keyboard-only or keyboard and mouse. The Slashdot audience is probably familiar with various tasks that are normally done with a mouse that they find easier/more efficient to do with a keyboard (see: vim/emacs vs. a common word processor or text editor). Adding more control mechanisms allow for more variety of interfaces, which will likely be better for at least some subset of users. If you do not like hand gestures then you can not get a device that uses them / use software that supports the control methods you prefer.

Re:Of course the latency can match

[grumbel]

it will just require faster cameras with better movement algorithms.

Depends, at least with traditional "gesture detection" that won't help. The problem with gesture detection is that you have to actually complete your gesture before the computer can start to analyzing your movement and figure out what you just did, which leads to the expected lag and can't be fixed with a faster camera or computer, since you still have to complete your gesture. The only way to fix this is if one can manage to move away from gestures to true 1:1 mapping where there aren't gestures, but just fluid movement that gets instantly mapped onto the computer (i.e. just like with a mouse you simply move the pointer, you don't do the move-pointer-to-the-left gesture).

If they get that solved tactile feedback is of course the next big hurdle and of course there is also the issue of lack of arm support, holding your arms out into thin air for a long time is not exactly easy and gets tiering very quickly. So I don't expect this to replace a mouse and keyboard anytime soon or ever, but as an additional way for input it might be useful for some cases.

Re:Of course the latency can match

[mcneely.mike]

Yeah, I hate it when people talk really LOUDLY and 'ooh, i am so important'(ly) on their phones... i feel like walking up beside them and pretending i am talking to someone on my phone saying,
"Yeah, i'll have to call you back. I have some doof talking really loudly on their phone and i can't hear a thing you're saying... makes phone sex kind of difficult!"
Have to try that some time just to see their reaction!
8-O

Re:Of course the latency can match

[Anonymous Coward]

Consider trying to draw a straight line with hand gestures. It's going to be nearly impossible. Really easy with a keyboard.

 
That's why the first keyboards had crooked edges...;)

You have some points of course but that doesn't mean gestures are useless for everything. Imagine typing at a keyboard combined with gestures for scrolling, zooming, panning, changing settings like volume, pausing playback etc.

Re:Of course the latency can match

[Anonymous Coward]

There's a small wrist device that works like Minority Report.

It uses light to read finger and hand motion with very low latency. Big guys have known about ltglv but want their ideas in the pipeline. I'm sure there's a cure for cancer & diabetes but too many making big $$$.

Doesn't matter what people want, it's what the status quo will allow to happen. Doesn't matter how much something can make, it's about who has the control. Unless of course you're making money then they want it...

Re:Of course the latency can match

[holophrastic]

I'm not saying that there aren't ANY uses for such things, simply that when people try to use them in place of existing solutions, that they are missing the point.

Incidentally, whenever people say "Organization due to being able to work with loads of things using two hands." such as you just did, I simply must ask: Do you write with both hands? Multi-focus works with multi-brains. I have two hands. There is absolutely no reason that I couldn't write with two pens concurrently. Or two high-lighters. Or use two erasers. But seriously, have you ever used two crayons?

When you're doing something that requires less than half of your focus, it's either not important, or not very long-lasting. Either way, the advanced interface will require more cognition than the task itself.

But hey, there are stories of Canadian Prime Ministers who could write a document in both english and french simultaneously, one hand for each language. Haven't the foggiest as to whether or not it's true.

Re:Of course the latency can match

[holophrastic]

Replace "can't keep your arms up for an hour" with "can't keep yoru head down for an hour" -- you'll get dizzy. The whole idea of your hands being within your vision is kind of wasteful -- propreoception means you know where your hands are precisely so that you needn't look at them. Hence touch-typing.

Now, if you're saying have a touch interface instead of a keyboard, and still have a screen at eye-level, then you've simply removed the keyboard for another input device. Cool. Just don't lose the accuracy, feedback, travel, etc..

Re:Of course the latency can match

[holophrastic]

Yes, granted, there are going to be interfaces that make such things appropriate. But in the end, is that really any easier? I've been designing programming interfaces for a long time, and I've chosen advanced applications with a similar eye -- yes of course I'd like advanced tasks to be made easier, but I never want easy tasks to be made more difficult. I'll sooner sacrifice the former for the latter.

Double-click is a great example. My car makes me double-click the unlock on the remote to unlock the passenger doors. It's stupidly annoying to double-click the remote with my thumb -- and it's not the style of button that was ever meant to make pushing it easy, you know, so yit doesn't get pushed when in your pocket. My fathers luxury car has this as a configurable feature -- it was on page 263 of the manual, and it took me a long time to find. For all the times that I'm unlocking my car with a mugger waiting at the passenger door, I'd have preferred to double-click when I want only the drivers' door to open.

Re:Of course the latency can match

[holophrastic]

100%. My beef is with the people and industries that push methodologies that are wildly inappropriate, for biased reasons. For example, the number of people who try to use their iPods for real business productivity is incredible, but it simply isn't built for it. Any executive who's building spreadsheet graphical reports on the iPod spends way too much time, and produces garbage that simply isn't worthy of presentation. It's not the iPod's fault, it's that people don't know what the right tool for the job really is.

An even better example may be the whole LCD/CRT game. LCDs have won out, no doubt. But everything about the actual picture being rendered is simply crap on even my amazing $2'500 LCD. The colours aren't as accurate, dead pixels, backlights, dead subpixels, the angles are an issue, the input lag is an issue, the aliasing is worse. Now, I always recommended LCDs for two reasons -- you need a small footprint; you want it bigger than CRTs can be. But the reason that they've won out is because they are cheaper to manufacture.

Now, the whole aspect ratio is falling to hell. And you can't work hard enough to convince people that 16:10 is smaller than 4:3. Math just doesn't work on these people -- they don't count the pixels. 16:9 will amke things even worse. But hey, tehy are cheaper to manufacture -- BECAUSE YOU'RE MANUFACTURING LESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So I figure, in about 100 years, we'll have 16:3 monitors. Tally-ho.

So really, I just need people in general to stop thinking that every new technology is to complete replace all of their old technology.

Re:Of course the latency can match

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

Forest and the trees. I'm not saying my suggestion was the best, I'm just saying that picking the worst implementation is not a useful way to evaluate the paradigm.

Re:Of course the latency can match

[elhedran]

The parent is insightful post.

Other instance of gestures would be for the couch potato. Sure, you can't hold your shoulders up for an hour, but then on my couch I'm not about to control my video continuously. Sure, there are early issues with accuracy etc, but they can be solved.

The problem with gestures (up till now) is the lack of technology, AND the lack of research into how to use it well, which can't start meaningfully without the technology.

Actually I'd really like it for home theatre control. No more remotes.

Re:Of course the latency can match

[trdrstv]

, it will just require faster cameras with better movement algorithms.

There reals question is do people want to stand there and point at the air with no tactile feed back?

I do.

Energy Expended

[negRo_slim]

Ahh yes even more opportunity to damage my body with repetitive motions!

Re:Energy Expended

[MadnessASAP]

Yes, except this time rahter then being in a wrist brace you'll be in a full body cast. It's the future baby! Yeahh!

hmm..

[max99ted]

..I thought this type of input was found to be tiring after using it for only 5 or 10 minutes? Or is that just for slashdot types? :)

Re:hmm..

[eln]

..I thought this type of input was found to be tiring after using it for only 5 or 10 minutes? Or is that just for slashdot types? :)

Did you even see the movie? On these types of systems, you can do anything you need to do in less than 30 seconds, after which it's time for more high-speed chases.

Clearly, you just don't understand high technology.

Re:hmm..

[Strange Ranger]

It always seemed silly to me to track hand movements for basic computing.

Neil Stephenson had it right in Snow Crash with Hiro's computer/terminal.

Track eye movements. A wink is a click. A two-eyed wink could be back, or escape.
Such a system could work with goggles or sci-fi contact lenses.
If we need to add hands on top of that for gaming or CAD or Photoshop, that would be fine.
But the basics start with what we're looking at, with our eyes.

OF course that doesn't make such an easily cool looking moving scene.

Re:hmm..

[YrWrstNtmr]

Track eye movements. A wink is a click. A two-eyed wink could be back, or escape. Such a system could work with goggles or sci-fi contact lenses. If we need to add hands on top of that for gaming or CAD or Photoshop, that would be fine. But the basics start with what we're looking at, with our eyes.

The several years old 'Nouse'. Nose tracking for mouse movement, blinks for mouse clicks.

Re:hmm..

[BorgAssimilator]

Track eye movements. A wink is a click. A two-eyed wink could be back, or escape. Such a system could work with goggles or sci-fi contact lenses.

Yeah, but think of all the random muscle spasms that would come out of that. It would get really annoying really quickly...

Re:hmm..

[Oligonicella]

Sounds cool, but define the difference between a wink and a blink.

Re:hmm..

[Anonymous Coward]

Wink with one eye, blink with two.

Re:hmm..

[Anonymous Coward]

Try it. A wink takes much longer.

Re:hmm..

[Anonymous Coward]

Like twitching a steering wheel half an inch causes you to careen of the road??
It's not as blunt an "instrument" as a sledge hammer or even a steering wheel.
You're just talking levels of refinement in the implementation.

Re:hmm..

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh please no. Our eyes do enough work day to day just performing their basic function, without having to start doing somersaults and superhuman feats to operate a computer.

Re:hmm..

[Anonymous Coward]

so every time i blink i go back a page?

Re:hmm..

[Anonymous Coward]

They're already looking in the right place.

Or do you compute from behind closed eyes?

Re:hmm..

[aussie_a]

What's the difference between that and a Wii? Besides the fact you don't have to lift a dongle to do it.

Re:hmm..

[CarpetShark]

If you snooze, you lose ;)

Re:hmm..

[Anonymous Coward]

Such systems already exists, they are mainly used for disabled people, tried it once, works surprisingly well.

Re:hmm..

[Repton]

So I'll be using involuntary reflexes to control my behaviour online?

Actually, maybe that's not so different after all...

Says the guy

[geekoid]

with a Wii..sheesh, what a moron.

Headed in the wrong direction

[Anonymous Coward]

Everything should be tactile push buttons, dials and levers.

Re:Headed in the wrong direction

[negRo_slim]

Everything should be tactile push buttons, dials and levers.

I'm tired of you damn kids coming along and thinking every new fangled method of connecting electro-mechanical circuits is just the bees knees! I do believe toggle switches and rope/pulley systems have served us well for this long and can continue to serve us well into the future!

Re:Headed in the wrong direction

[Enderandrew]

Toggle switches were fine for Scotty and Sulu. They're good enough for me.

Re:Headed in the wrong direction

[BorgAssimilator]

Actually, that is something to consider. In Star Trek everyone is constantly pushing on flat interfaces everywhere. I would think that I'd get pretty bored with that fairly quickly. Tom Paris did, which led him to creating basic button, switch, and lever controls for the Delta Flyer.

Re:Headed in the wrong direction

[Anonymous Coward]

Amen

Re:Headed in the wrong direction

[Spy der Mann]

Everything should be tactile push buttons, dials and levers.

I do believe toggle switches and rope/pulley systems have served us well for this long and can continue to serve us well into the future!

Amateur. In ancient Thundera, we used Fire and Ice!

Re:Headed in the wrong direction

[geekoid]

Which was lame as hell..second only to the joystick Riker used.

Completely misses the point.

Re:Headed in the wrong direction

[hairyfeet]

Don't forget the big rotary knob. You HAD to have the big rotary knob for when Scotty or Kirk had to really crank up the juice.

Re:Headed in the wrong direction

[westlake]

Everything should be tactile push buttons, dials and levers.
.

This was the last year for our pull-the-lever voting machines.

Invented here in upstate New York and first used in Lockport in 1892. Vote: The Machinery of Democracy

I will miss them.

Each little lever snapping into place with a loud and satisfying "Clack!" and revealing a clear and unmistakable red X.

There was never any ambiguity about what you had done and everything was reversible until you pulled the one big Big lever and exited the booth.

Generally speaking, with a dial, the mid-range is safe and the extremes are dangerous.

The position of a lever has equal clarity and the lever itself has enough resistance that it cannot be moved accidentally.

These are lessons you can teach a child.

Re:Headed in the wrong direction

[lysergic.acid]

typing into a keyboard or sliding a mouse around all day isn't particularly exciting either. but input devices aren't meant to be exciting or interesting. they're supposed to be useful/practical.

touch screens are so popular because they're intuitive and easy to use. the more natural an input device feels, the more transparent it becomes, and the more effective it is at its job. ideally, the input device should be unnoticeable to the user. they should feel like they're directly manipulating & interacting with the virtual content on the screen.

the ball-mouse was adopted so quickly because it greatly reduces the effort needed to interact with computer software. when your hand is on the mouse, the cursor becomes just an extension of your arm. moving the pointer becomes effortless and natural. whereas, with a keyboard you have to fiddle with a bunch of clumsy arrow buttons, and this creates a virtual & psychological gap between the user and the software they're trying to interact with.

the touch screen is an evolution of the mouse cursor. with it you can directly point and touch items on the screen to interact with them. there's no need for a mouse or pointer. that eliminates another gap between the user and the virtual environment.

Re:Headed in the wrong direction

[negRo_slim]

two things come to mind when thinking of the screen as the input, either the screen will remain in roughly the same position and hands will get tired... move it to your looking down and im assuming increased neck strain? im sure a happy medium can be found. but i also wonder how the screen would provide an analogue for a highly sensitive mouse. i got mine sky high so my hand moves as little as possible... just some thoughts!

Re:Headed in the wrong direction

[lysergic.acid]

it all depends on the application i guess. i remember when i was in elementary school (in Taiwan) there were computer desks coming out that let you place the monitor (CRTs back then) inside the actual desk so that it sits under a pane of glass and is angled upward at the user. this provided a more ergonomic work environment that put minimal strain on the user's neck (it's sorta like reading a book).

as a graphic designer and having to focus on the screen for hours at a time when working on a composition, i'd definitely prefer that kind of setup to the conventional monitor orientation. it just seems more natural/comfortable. even if you're transcribing a document or something, you can just place the document next to the display area and shift your gaze between the monitor and the paper without having to tilt your head and strain your neck. those desks were quite expensive though as i recall. but i think a lot of movie theater box offices do use that kind of setup.

and using a Wacom Cintiq tablet-screen hybrid to do graphic design is much easier than using a mouse. in fact, you really can't use a mouse to do serious graphics. aside from gaming, i don't think high mouse-sensitivity is really that much of a benefit on an average-sized display.

Alternate Input Devices

[Emb3rz]

I just ordered an OCZ NIA today. This after having reviewed the three top contenders in the arena of brain-controlled input devices. Kind of disappointed that the new one from Emotiv isn't available yet - with its additional electrodes and gyros to detect head position it looks like a promising piece of gear.

One of the cool things from the demo video of the Emotiv EPOC was that of their official game where you use the controller for, well, everything. One of the clips showed a man levitating a boulder ingame by focusing on the 'lift' action and raising his hand. Perhaps advances in this arena could negate any usefulness for camera-based systems?

Re:Alternate Input Devices

[lysergic.acid]

thought commands definitely have a lot of potential to supersede all other input devices/technologies. i've never seen, or heard of, the OCZ NIA or Emotiv EPOC, but if there are effective neural signal monitors that aren't prohibitively expensive, i'd be interested to learn more about them.

if an advanced neural interface can be developed to accurately read thought commands, conventional input devices would become largely obsolete. paraplegics and other users with disabilities would benefit greatly from such technology. i mean, what's more intuitive than thought commands?

though i imagine we're still quite a ways away from being able to dictate a letter with our minds or draw images with our mind's eyes. there's still a lot more that needs to be uncovered about how the brain works before we can fully interface between mind and machine. and i do wonder if it'd really be easier to monitor, and accurately interpret, motor commands than using video imaging to receive motion inputs.

the future of gaming is almost here

[mcfatboy93]

with the rate at which computers are getting faster it won't be long until we can use things like this to play games. just imagine useing this to play halo with a plastic gun and running around in a human sized hamster ball. the utimate virtual reality

Re:the future of gaming is almost here

[negRo_slim]

Just imagine useing this to play halo with a plastic gun and running around in a human sized hamster ball.

Once you bring back physical prowess into competition you will most certainly lose the geek demographic.

Re:the future of gaming is almost here

[prod-you]

Some of the weak minded geeks may degrade into jocks.

Re:the future of gaming is almost here

[Velocir]

Or the geeks will adapt and be smarter and fitter. Or at least, we can hope.

Re:the future of gaming is almost here

[RiotingPacifist]

he said play halo, they are already week minded geeks.

Not efficient

[jamesshuang]

I find the allure of making Minority Report devices rather... funny. The movie itself already shows one REALLY good reason why these interfaces are awful. When he tries to shake the guy's hand, the interface suddenly resets itself. You can't "snap out" of the interface like you can letting go of a mouse. It really only looks cool. After waving your arms in the air for 5 min without support, you'll wish you had the mouse and keyboard back...

Re:Not efficient

[LandDolphin]

Maybe it would make sitting in front of a desk workign on the computer more healthy? Would that be a bad thing?

Re:Not efficient

[girlintraining]

For some tasks these types of interfaces are very well-suited. Virtual surgery comes to mind as one example. Another might be the manipulation of objects in 3D remotely, such as on a battlefield in order to remotely disarm IEDs, where the feel of texture and a natural interface would be important. Why does everybody think that an input device is crap if it doesn't give them an edge in [insert favorite video game here]? I use a trackball at work due to RSI, and it works very well for long hours at a terminal without fatiguing my wrists. Maybe my "frag count" won't very high with this setup, but that's not why it's there.

Re:Not efficient

[jamesshuang]

Such a device wouldn't be exercising the right muscles. For one thing, there's no way you'd be able to work up a sweat waving your arms around like that. So, definitely not aerobic activity. For another thing, that's only likely to give you all sorts of odd repetitive stress problems.

Re:Not efficient

[karnal]

For one thing, there's no way you'd be able to work up a sweat waving your arms around like that.

At the risk of not sounding very pc, I know people that nearly have a heart attack walking up one flight of stairs (they stop in the landing in-between) so there are people who could work up a sweat doing this.

Re:Not efficient

[jamesshuang]

For surgery devices like what you're suggesting, look at some current haptics research. I'm actually participating in some of this stuff, where you stick your fingers in two little armatures. These armatures use inverse kinematics to determine the location of your fingers in space, and allow you to manipulate a 3D world. It's really really convincing, because you can "feel" the objects. The armatures give you very real feedback on the boundaries, stiffness, and texture of the object you're manipulating.

A device like this would be much better for surgery because they don't rely on inaccurate gestures for input. In addition, they provide direct feedback, giving an extra level of immersion. The wiimote relies on gestures, and as such, the motion control adds very little beyond what a button or two can do.

Re:Not efficient

[jamesshuang]

Sorry, took me a while to find this picture, but this is what the device looks like: http://bankslab.berkeley.edu/Projects/visualHapticSchematic.html

LAWSUIT

[Anonymous Coward]

I invented ALL of this in my mind the day I saw Minority Report!

Can I sue?

Re:LAWSUIT

[khellendros1984]

This idea invented by Shampoo.

Re:LAWSUIT

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Oh man, you brought back the memories with that one. Is he still active?

Goodbye QWERTY!

[BoldlyGo]

Between touch screens, voice recognition, and breakthroughs that are already happening concerning controlling computers through thought...

Kids born in 2050 probably will not know what qwerty is.

Re:Goodbye QWERTY!

[mqduck]

Which is exactly what the visionaries who keep developing this useless but pretty junk keep telling themselves.

Don't know what's more painful

[Microlith]

The thought of performing silly motions over and over again, or their name.

How about the johnny mnemonic data gloves?

[Joe The Dragon]

How about the johnny mnemonic data gloves?

I almost thought...

[ATestR]

I saw the title of the article and for a moment I almost thought that this was a software package that would allow your computer to see future crimes that you might be involved in, contact the authorities, and have you arrested. Then I read the paragraph and was greatly disappointed.

Re:I almost thought...

[riceboy50]

I thought exactly the same thing. We really need to stop reading so many Big Brother technology stories!

Re:I almost thought...

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought it would predict when your computer was going to commit a murder.

Re:I almost thought...

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

What, does this story display with "Australia" somewhere in the title for you?

Re:I almost thought...

[ljw1004]

Along the RIAA lines that if you have bittorrent on your computer then you're likely doing illegal file-sharing...

Three Words...

[FFCecil]

Johnny Chung Lee

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~johnny/projects/wii/

He did this ages ago with nothing but a Wii remote, some IR LEDs, and bits of reflective tape. And all his code is openly available!

If you're interested, take a look around his site at some of the other stuff he's done... and not just with Wii remotes, either. The man is a genius. I love the projector calibration work he did. I mean, he's turned folding fans and umbrellas into screens!

How much longer?

[girlintraining]

How much longer will we be using keyboards and mice for gaming? Well, until you can shoot me faster than I can flick my wrist and waste you of course. And the camera support will not be added to games for a very simple reason: You don't want to see what other gamers look like in front of their PCs. Really, you don't.

Useless!?

[BoldlyGo]

this useless but pretty junk

The new interfaces I listed are useless but pretty! I already know people who use voice recognition to chat on IM's instead of typing because it is quicker. More intuitive and efficient interfaces are about as far from useless as you can get. Can you surf the internet mearly by thinking about it.... No. Will we get there? Yes.

Admittedly, not everything that is being developed is going to be revolutionary right out of the box. Progress rarely works in leaps.

Re:Useless!?

[mevets]

Do they have the inverse, that can turn IM into voice? That would be so cool, you could just sit there and talk.

Gesture control for TV

[eatvegetables]

Talk about timing. I'm considering building a gesture control system for my TV as a project in a comp vision class. The image recognition from a vid camera is fairly straight forward. However, I'm not certain what HW I will need to take in digital TV signal (assuming Haup TV card) and that export pic/sound to my TV via HDMI cable after processing. I want to enable image pause/zoom/draw menus, buttons/etc., which is why I need to intercept pic. Anyway, processing time and resulting latency would seem to make this approach infeasible for gaming. Also, the users looked horribly uncomfortable in the video. The lag could just be due to the use of poorly designed algorithms, but I'm not certain since I haven't yet delved into my project. Also, I'd suggest not being so literal with the hand gestures used for various things. Comfort is key to a good interface.

Re:Gesture control for TV

[theurge14]

"Talk about timing. I'm considering building a gesture control system for my TV as a project in a comp vision class"

On the contrary, good timing would have been you building this BEFORE the election...

Re:Gesture control for TV

[eatvegetables]

I'm not sure the TV would've respond well to the gestures I was making at that particular point in time.

Most of you are "doing it wrong"

[MentlFlos]

Even the video in TFA is wrong. This is not a primary input device but great for niche usage.

At work we are setting up public use, always on, video conference stations in public locations. One of the large problems we are running into is controlling the 2-4 large flat panels or projectors in these locations. A keyboard and mouse would walk away and is impractical. A secondary device with a lower resolution "mirror" to manipulate would be nice, but still is not practical for several reasons.

My boss wants to be able to point at the machine and have it do something. This is exactly what we are looking for. We are only interfacing with the machine for up to one minute at a time and then it is all talking via the video conferencing with whomever is on the other end of the line.

RIT AG info

Re:Most of you are "doing it wrong"

[gznork26]

A suggested enhancement: to use this sort of interface during a presentation, you'd want to enable and disable the thing so you could also use your hands for emphasis while you talk. Perhaps a voice-recognition system listening for a keywords to toggle it. Then it would become a very fluid process to do the presentation, using the screen only when you want to.

+++
JMS is writing a sequel movie to Forbidden Planet.
Read my take on the Krell's side of it at:
klurgsheld.wordpress.com/2007/09/18/short-story-singularity-of-soul/

Re:Most of you are "doing it wrong"

[MentlFlos]

Perhaps a foot pedal at the optimal viewing location... Force people to stand in the best spot AND give a trigger option.

Well...

[abroadwin]

I think the idea is good, but some form of haptic feedback would really complete it. I remember reading about some research into tricking us into feeling like we're getting solid tactile feedback when in reality it's a slight vibration. That kind of change could also make playing Mario Kart Wii with the wii-wheel slightly less horrible. When I read about it the tech was being applied to touch screen cell phones so it felt like you were really pressing a raised button instead of a flat screen.

Not really viable for long term use...

[Bones3D_mac]

The biggest problem facing in-air hand gesturing is that it requires some level of stamina to maintain continual use. For sifting through data that could be done via other means, this just isn't practical due to the eventual strain it places on the user. It's sort of like trying to paint a ceiling. At first you're fine, but the longer you do it, your efficiency starts drop at a sharp curve.

Technologies like multi-touch and Microsoft's "surface" simply make more sense for extended use, since they allow the user to rest against the surface they're interacting with. The same is true of mice, keyboards and track pads.

Another example of this is to compare the Nintendo Wii's motion control setup against more traditional controllers, such as those on the Xbox 360. In a marathon gaming session, the user is going to tire out far quicker and need more breaks on the Wii side, while the worst you might get from the more traditional controller setup is an uncomfortable cramp a few hours in.

This is the same reason why virtual reality never really took off during the early 90s. It put too many physical demands on the user.

Re:Not really viable for long term use...

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you kidding? If someone comes up with some high-tech, tactile, interactive virtual porn device, Slashdotters will "rise to the occasion" so to speak. I predict a sudden outbreak of physical fitness amongst nerds in general.

>>This is the same reason why virtual reality never really took off during the early 90s. It put too many physical demands on the user.

Re:Not really viable for long term use...

[ErikZ]

The biggest problem facing in-air hand gesturing is that it requires some level of stamina to maintain continual use. For sifting through data that could be done via other means, this just isn't practical due to the eventual strain it places on the user. It's sort of like trying to paint a ceiling. At first you're fine, but the longer you do it, your efficiency starts drop at a sharp curve.

I'm surprised that no one see this as a feature instead of a bug.

If the user gets too tired from waving his/her arms around constantly, it means they're going to focus on thinking more before acting. Remember the days before PCs could multitask?

Just what we need...

[TheSambassador]

More reasons to wave our hands around like idiots.

Hands only?

[Nux'd]

Wouldn't this be a great deal more effective if it could pin-point your view point aswell?

Cynical

[EdIII]

The first thing I thought of when it said "Minority Report like control" was the complete loss of privacy and totalitarian fascist monitoring of citizens with the added benefit of never being able to escape advertisements ever again.

Part of me thinks I might actually need to visit an eastern European ex-con with a nasty ass nurse just to get some of my own privacy back in the future.

If we are going to really concentrate on obtaining any technology from that movie it should be that virtual room with all the stripper girls grinding on that dude.

Re:Cynical

[plasmacutter]

The first thing I thought of when it said "Minority Report like control" was the complete loss of privacy and totalitarian fascist monitoring of citizens with the added benefit of never being able to escape advertisements ever again.

Part of me thinks I might actually need to visit an eastern European ex-con with a nasty ass nurse just to get some of my own privacy back in the future.

If we are going to really concentrate on obtaining any technology from that movie it should be that virtual room with all the stripper girls grinding on that dude.

Indeed, every time I look at this article I get an involuntary but momentary chill of primal terror.

Given the recent news from france and australia, it evokes all the negative aspects of the movie, rather than the cool futuristic hardware.

New/Old Tech

[Oligonicella]

"For how much longer will we still be using keyboards, mice and joysticks?"

We've been using pencils and paper how long now? Just because a cool tech shows up doesn't mean the old tech will go away.

Piano

[Anonymous Coward]

For how much longer will we still be using keyboards, mice and joysticks?"

Yep, the future will be keyboard and mouse free. That's why no musical instrument has keys or strings that the player has to touch. It's so wonderful how technology has rid us of all those useless interfaces.

Re:One Word...

[Anonymous Coward]

Lame

How about making controller we REALLY need?

[Opportunist]

It' been pointed out before, waving your hands in the air in front of you is tiring and most of all anything but accurate.

How about some input devices that are easy to make AND useful? Ever thought about multi purpose foot pedals? If nothing else, you could put four buttons of your mouse onto your feet. I'd love that for games. You get pedals for flight sims, race sims (with the accompanying wheel), which work as two analog buttons, basically, but did nobody ever have the idea to implement something as simple and useful as a pedal system for buttons? I'm sure FPS and MMO players would jump on it.

How long?

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

For how much longer will we still be using keyboards, mice and joysticks?"

Oh, probably for as long as people want to sit quietly at their PCs to perform their tasks. Who wants to flail their arms around like a spastic monkey in order to surf the web?

::considers the wii::

Erm, scratch that.

Old idea, and it was never any good

[Anonymous Coward]

Anybody remember the NES U-Force controllers? Worst UI idea ever.

Nose tracking?

[fuego451]

They called me Hawk in the Army and it wasn't for my vision. With my beak, this system would explode.

obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

But what about the rum?

Three More Words...

[geekoid]

It's fucking different.

What he did was cool, but not the same thing.

Re:Three More Words...

[FFCecil]

After having now been able to view the video (YouTube blocked at work), I'd have to agree. This is a different technology. Though I'd say it still suffers from the same flaw: tiresome! Mice and keyboards have their drawbacks to be sure, but they involve a lot less movement. Even just holding out my arm(s) like that would quickly exhaust me, let alone gesturing profusely for a several hour gaming session.

I've always been interested in inputdev... I wonder if there's some happy medium between the two? An intuitive input scheme (like direct mimicry of in-game gestures) that requires little exertion (like hitting buttons or moving a mouse)?

Re:How about making controller we REALLY need?

[EveLibertine]

http://www.gogamer.com/Saitek-Pro-Flight-Rudder-Pedals-CH-Products_stcVVproductId5589593VVcatId480176VVviewprod.htm

Don't diss it just yet

[Anonymous Coward]

I want it in addition to keyboard and mouse--because those two input devices force me to sit down. What if I just want to view a different web page real quick, or skip the next song? Or zoom a window from underneath and so on, and then head back to the fridge for a cold one?

Probably not ment for Home Use

[shdowhawk]

Even though they were showing it used for games and such, I honestly doubt that they mean it to be used for normal home use (at least initially)

As everyone says, the lack of tactical feedback, and the tiredness factor would keep it out of use for most people. I can on the other hand see a MAJOR markets for these elsewhere:

1. Presentations. Having someone just point towards a screen in a meeting would be great for collaborative use. It's better than a touch screen since people wouldn't need to crowd around the projector and block out the image.

2. How cool would it be if something like this was set up with a "reverse camera"... Then you would point at something, and a system would look to where you are pointing at and pull up information. Example: At the aquarium, you point at a specific fish or shark, and it'll recognize it, and pull up a little information window about that animal.

3. Something MUCH MORE futuristic. This is the beginning of using 3d holographics. With this part done, we just need to show a 3d hologram, use this technology on it, and we can poke certain parts of the hologram image to "select" it. Example: Doctors have a 3d hologram of their patients x-ray, they could use this as a "multitouch" hologram to grab the image and move/rotate it. That would be freakin sweet!

The key here is that it would be used for LOTS of things that don't involve constant use for long periods of time (gaming, computer work, etc). That's just my $.02 though...

Minority Report style interfaces are not for geeks

[Technomancer]

We lack upper body strength to do it for prolonged periods of time (say, more than 2 minutes).

Give credit where credit is due...

[dexmachina]

This technology was invented by Shampoo

The future is NOW

[Anonymous Coward]

a plastic gun and running around in a human sized hamster ball

We have something very similar now: Paintball.

The only difference between paintball and the approach you outlined (besides the massive initial investment) is the ability to play with/against people from different locales.

The real future of gaming and computer interfaces is of course: Direct Neural Link. The ability to create a virtual environment and beam the stimuli directly into your brain. It's only a matter of time.

Not the first ...

[ScrewMaster]

A startup named Mgestyk Technologies claims that they have an affordable solution for 'Minority Report'-like PC control.

The tech in Johnny Mnemonic predates Minority Report by a number of years, and Keanu Reeves hand-waving while interfacing with the global network was prophetic, it sounds like.

For how much longer will we still be using keyboards, mice and joysticks?

Forever, or until we get a direct neural interface. Most people don't want to hold their hands up in the air all day. It's tiring.

It all depends on usage..

[cheros]

This has a very beta feel to it, but I don't see a "right" or "wrong" here.

We're simply talking about "one of many" input methods. I find it interesting that there is always immediate talk about the death of one thing or another - it depends what you use it for and if it is a suitable substitute. Take mice, if you use the mouse all the time you're (a) risking a lot of RSI and (b) are inefficient. Learning keyboard shortcuts -especially for commands you use often- allows you to work much faster (I presume that's why they have been messed up in Office 2007 - I guess MS appearing to IMPROVE productivity would be somehow a Bad Thing).

In the Minority Report (as well as the new James Bond movie) they use hand gestures to manipulate what is shown. It would be good if that could be done on the screen because your only other control mechanism is a SMALL screen where you can't quite see what you're doing if you work room or hall wide with a high resolution (most wall displays are just blown up small images which is not quite the same concept).

Observations:

1 - Minority Report and this technology are done contactless, you're waving in the air at something (I'm assuming you're past the initial barrier of potentially looking like an idiot when you're being ignored by the technology :-). IMHO this has a very low precision and is thus only good for rough positioning and manipulation. Imagine the size of "air keyboard" you'd need (IMHO, the concepts in Johnny Mnemonic were better for that as he wore gloves which provide that more precise control and thus could do air-typing - yes I know it's only a movie but the idea itself is IMHO viable)

2 - in Quantum of Solace the approach is contact driven, a sort of large scale iPod Touch idea. You'd have to develop better pickup technology than the Ipod though - not touch sensitive, maybe like the laser keyboard? Again it runs over multiple screens which are treated as one big one which is IMHO the most logical approach.

Both approaches deliver questions such as "why transparent glass if it's on a wall" and "can we get luminence high enough so we don't have to live in dark offices when this stuff is online"..

Added bonus question for the Bond Movie - do you now need a whole echelon of security cleared window cleaners?

Anyway, that's my take :-). I like those new ideas, and I don't think we should dismiss something immediately because it doesn't fit in with how we use computers now. When the mainframe was introduced, nobody could have imagined that we now have personal machines on our desktop that are *WAY* more powerful, just because we like to play games on them..

In 20 years time this may all be very different again.

I'd rather have a tablet

[Waccoon]

The problem is that most of these interfaces have the same functional value of things we are already using. They are just designed to look cooler and often just introduce ergonomic issues to boot. That sells, but it doesn't really solve many (if any) problems.

I saw a camera recently that had a touch screen interface that covered the whole back of the camera, rather than the usual buttons. When reviewing photos, you see two photos at a time, and you just "swipe" horizontally to scroll between the previous and next pictures. That's the same thing as pushing a left and right button. It's a scroller. It may be a nice alternative, but it's not really a solution to a problem.

Hell, I remember the first time I tried an iPod. It took me a long time to realize how to use the stupid wheel, and the buttons on my MP3 player are far more accurate than fumbling around with the touch interface, trying to keep the focus from skipping between two different menu items. I'm glad I saved myself about $60 by getting something "cheaper" that actually worked better for me.

Frankly, I don't like anything with a touch surface. I have trouble using them compared to something I can manipulate with more than one finger. It amazes me that there aren't more laptops that have a trackball as an option, for people like me that have severe allergic reactions to trackpads. God, I hate those things, and I don't want to drag a mini USB mouse with me everywhere I go. Come on, where did all the trackballs go? Yes, I'd prefer a real mouse on a desktop computer, but anything is better than a trackpad!

3D interfaces are the next big thing. I remember when mouse gestures were the next big thing. I remember when VR goggles were the next big thing. I remember a company pushing an analog stick instead of a mouse as the next big thing. The next big thing rarely pans out. Touchscreens make things more portable, but given the choice, I think a lot of people will stick to their keyboards and mice for a while. Me, being an artist, I use a tablet for almost everything, including playing games. I'll be doing that for a while, too.

Where's the built-in OS support for tablets? Oh, trendy touchscreen support is more important than the other most useful interface besides the mouse and keyboard.

How do I get a camera like that

[Anonymous Coward]

So article mentions that they use 3D cameras that cost ~150$. Where can I get my hands on such a camera?

Pre-Crime for filesharing?(read headline wrong!)

[plasmacutter]

When I looked at this headline, I began to think this guy found a way to remotely embed firmware into computers to determine whether someone will file-share in the future, and call the FBI to arrest the owner.

Every time I read it, it evokes that same dystopian image.

It'd be hilarious to me if this reaction was not primal and automatic. Given this, it's quite disturbing.

Re:How about making controller we REALLY need?

[plasmacutter]

with all due respect, a contact on the end of a finger is pretty precise.

You wouldn't be waving your hands constantly unless you game, in which case you'd probably be using some VR input method, and of course nothing is preventing you from using legacy input.

Re:Minority Report style interfaces are not for ge

[couchslug]

"We lack upper body strength to do it for prolonged periods of time (say, more than 2 minutes)."

They are a shit idea in terms of precision as well. The people with arguably the best combination of strength/precision optimized for repetitive motion are weldors, and they still have to "brace" to be accurate.

Touch Screen

[Anonymous Coward]

I think that the touch screen technology of the iPhone/iPod Touch is MORE of a reality than hand gestures. I can see keyboards being replaced with a virtual keyboard long before I see hand gestures becoming a reality. I just doesnt make sense.
Heres a link to what I believe could be the future.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLhMVNdplJc

Re:How about making controller we REALLY need?

[Opportunist]

Yes, thank you, I know about those. How about pedals that act like some additional mouse buttons or mapable to keyboard buttons?

Re:How about making controller we REALLY need?

[Opportunist]

Of course it is. But it is ONE contact.

You'll have noticed that mice today have an incredible collection of additional buttons. Some more sensibly placed than others, but in general you have mice with four, six or ten buttons. Programmable, mapable, whatever. Yet, they all require you to move your hand or fingers to press them, something you might not really be comfortable with when playing games where good aim and swift reaction are key to success.

I could well see digital input pedals for actions that are now only mapped to keyboard keys and require you to move your fingers away from controlling your character. This can be quite useful for both, FPS and MMOs. The normal steering buttons of WASD are painfully far away from the higher numbers, i.e. the places you can usually map your weapons (FPS) or spells (MMO) to. Mapping them to your feet could give you four, maybe more, additional actions that you can access without the fear of hitting the wrong button at the wrong time.

I'm honestly amazed nobody ever thought of that. I'm sure gamers would buy it.

Gee...

[nilbog]

I've always wanted to flip through coverflow one aggravating album at a time. It would take me all day and some serious arm strain to make it through my whole collection.

This is so true.

[Cyno01]

I worked in a photo lab for a time, and the photo editing software behind the counter was severly lacking, which meant i prefered to do a lot of the editing work on the kodak picture maker kiosk and burn it to a disc.

Unfortunately, the KPM was a touchscreen interface, my arm would be sore after about 10 minutes of editing photos. But since i worked there and had the keys i'd always just pop the back panel off and plug in a mouse. Much quicker and more precise than the touchscreen and so much easier on my elbows and shoulders.