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Non-Violent, Cooperative Games?

jandersen writes "While I generally don't play computer games, I do occasionally play games like Crossfire or The Mana World, because they have more of a story line and allow you to go at your own pace. What I don't care much about, though, is that they are still focused on killing monsters and amassing wealth, and it gets very tedious after a while. Are there really no games where the goal isn't so much about increasing your own power and defeating others, but where you instead grow by doing things that benefit others, where enemies shouldn't be killed out of hand, but befriended; where learning, teaching, research and social skills are more important than killing and conquering? Would people be interested in a game of that nature?"

28 of 329 comments (clear)

  1. SimCity by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't know... SimCity? Wii Sports? Jewel Quest & friends?

    1. Re:SimCity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      There's some other definition for befriend?

    2. Re:SimCity by cgenman · · Score: 4, Informative

      Puzzle Pirates. Play puzzles to bilge, sail, build clothing, etc. It's a (vaguely) player driven economy with a mostly laid back group of people. And, of course, there is Viva Pinata.

      I think the original poster's goals are unreachable with current technology and techniques. You can't befriend a game in any more substantive a fashion than you can befriend your television... lots of games have tried various ways of simulating human interactions, but humans are notoriously complex. Emotional simulation systems quickly break down into either simplistic grinding or laughable parodies of humanity. If you attempt to replace those computer entities with actual other online human beings... Let's just say that you can't rely upon other human beings in online games to act like human beings.

      The closest thing to what the grandparent poster asked for is the sims. It's a good example of how simplified human interactions have to be made in order to work in a simulated environment.

    3. Re:SimCity by Laser_iCE · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think one of the greatest games to EVER be released would have to be Grim Fandango. It's packed with an awesome story, along with some beautiful scenery and voice acting that I'm still yet to see outdone in any games over the past 10 years. If anyone else reading this hasn't played the game, then I high recommend you go out and find it (or stay inside and find it online). For those unfamiliar with it, it plays in the same sort of style as Monkey Island.

      Seriously, check it out. They've just recently released the original design document, it's worth checking it out (They've taken the original story down... But Kotaku's mirror is still available)

      http://kotaku.com/5077780/tim-shafer-publishes-original-grim-fandango-design-doc

  2. You can do that in regular games by NaCh0 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    But much like the real world, it won't get you very far.

    1. Re:You can do that in regular games by Auroch · · Score: 5, Insightful

      much like the real world, it won't get you very far.

      Part of the allure of MMORPGs is the accumulation of wealth and the feeling of dominance and superiority. Most of the older gamers that feel the need to create a sense of community, or contribute to a common goal are usually doing so within a guild/group, and competing with other groups. This appeals to another part of the human psyche, the need to establish an out-group, and to be better than the opposition!

      There are games for younger children which don't incorporate violence, and encourage good skills - but they're marketed to parents, not to children, and usually aren't that much fun.

      So, whether or not there is a market for such games, I don't know. But I do get the sense that the target audience doesn't have the buying power, and the people who would purchase these games are already purchasing other educational and boring games.

      So, if you're not a child, why would you want to immerse yourself in a world where you help people? If you are that sort of person, you probably realize that your time would be better spent actually helping people in real life. And if helping is really that important to you... well, you're probably not playing videogames in your spare time, anyways.

      --
      Quartz Extreme and Core Image. Are there any other real reasons to spend all that money on generic hardware?
    2. Re:You can do that in regular games by Indras · · Score: 3, Informative

      But much like the real world, it won't get you very far.

      Yes, there are a few games that can be won without any violence at all, but they either wind up being too boring or too difficult. For instance, in Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magicka, there is a journal that keeps track of quests and kills and such, and it is entirely possible to beat the game with 0 kills. There are quite a few quests than can be completed with no violence at all, you can run from pretty much every battle, and even the end boss of the game can be defeated without violence. However, it is very, very difficult. Think beating Final Fantasy with a 1 white mage party.

      Likewise the Civilization series, Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri, Master of Orion, and other games of that nature can often be won with pacifistic strategies, at the expense of enjoyment. Sure, they're somewhat enjoyable the first time through to see all the technologies and city/planet upgrades, but there's hardly any replayability.

      Another one that comes to mind is Europa 1400. It is a game that really doesn't fit into any genre. Sort of a version of The Sims set in 15th century Europe with careers such as blacksmithing, alchemy, and masonry. Amassing your wealth is the point of the game, but violence is difficult to find: you can become a thief or robber baron, or in the right circumstance challenge another npc to a duel, though it rarely results in death.

      I played a MUD heavily back in high school when I first got a computer called Dragonrealms by Simutronics. At the time it was a free game in the AOL Games arena, back when AOL first offered a plan that did not charge by the hour. It was entirely possible to play some classes without killing mobs at all, like Cleric, Empath, or Trader. In fact, for one class (the Empath), harming another was strictly prohibited, and doing so was punished heavily in game.

      As for a game that is intrinsically nonviolent, the Sim games are probably the only popular ones I can think of. Sim City, Sim Tower, The Sims, and the like are all well known titles, The Sims and expansions, in particular, sell very well and frequently visit top 10 seller lists.

      So yeah, there are games that do not revolve around killing monsters or amassing wealth, or both, and some games can be played and enjoyed using pacifism, but they are certainly rare.

      --
      The speed of time is one second per second.
    3. Re:You can do that in regular games by Anachragnome · · Score: 4, Funny

      "As for a game that is intrinsically nonviolent, the Sim games are probably the only popular ones I can think of. Sim City, Sim Tower, The Sims, and the like are all well known titles, The Sims and expansions, in particular, sell very well and frequently visit top 10 seller lists."

      You obviously do not have a sick mind.

      Other then using a cheat code, the fastest way to make money in the Sims was to marry a neighbor(after the proper amount of time spent on wooing them), wait for the new wife/husband to go for a swim, then delete the ladder coming out of the pool. Let em tread water until they meet a watery death. Tada! You are now the sole beneficiary of the deceased's estate.

      Either that, or simply brick 'em into a wall. Gravestones in the pool always seems to upset the party guests.

    4. Re:You can do that in regular games by Salgak1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Au contraire: I rather enjoy minimal-combat strategies for winning Civ IV. I've managed Research-'em to Death victories (i.e. research to successfully build and launch a starship in the late 1800s/early 1900s) and Virus/Borg victories, where you spread so fast that you are literally all over the start continent in the first millenium, and between everyone else. . .and then just Assimilate everyone by culture and growth. . .

  3. Get a PS3... by Swift+Kick · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ... then get Little Big Planet

    Have fun.

    --
    "We'll need 2000 crickets, 4 cans of Easy Cheese, and the fluid from 18 glowsticks for this plan to work...." - ph0n1c
    1. Re:Get a PS3... by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Additionally, console games shouldn't have a stationary 10-minute install screen.

      With the much-lauded processing power of the PS3 they could have at least spread the "install" across the games' opening cut-scenes. One main purpose of consoles is to eliminate the sluggishness of the PC world.

      Having a PS3 is kind of like having a Mac: all the inconvenience of PC sluggishness with the made-purposely-difficult restrictions of unofficial hardware use(e.g. installing an alternate operating system).

    2. Re:Get a PS3... by TikiTDO · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Having spent quite a few hours playing LBP with 4 players I can straight off say that your post is completely off base. The one point you did get is the control scheme, it is certainly flaky, and could use a bit of work.

      There is very little competitive content, the only actual competition going on is a race to see who can get the most points. The reward is a little trophy over your head in the last 5 seconds of the match. That said, it is without argument to your advantage to help the other players out. Not only does letting them die waste lives from the general pool, but also there are more than a few points where the camera will decide to focus on the lagging player, killing anyone who gets too far by off screen timer.

      Then there is the killing monsters thing. There are maybe 20 or 30 killable monsters in the game, usually used to give you a moving obstacle that you can use as a platform to jump higher. These "monsters" look like something you'd put together from the spare parts in a kid's toy-box, which is quite obviously the theme they were going for in this game.

      So yes, while the game does not quite meet the qualifications the article stated, it is certainly a lot more cooperative than what you described. As for obligatory "I'm with the in group" quip. I am a Slashdotter, I care about freedom, and I own a PS3. Just because a company is willing to take steps to protect their investments, does not mean I should deprive myself of enjoyment on the argument that it might, in some roundabout way, reduce the freedoms that everyone enjoys. If you do not want Sony to own your levels, don't post any, or play offline. Magically, the problem goes away. And before you go off on the tried and true, "You're a fanboy, you wouldn't understand." I own every single current gen console, with plenty of games for each, and I do most of my gaming on my PC. I also work for a company with some stake in the 360, so if anything I would be rooting for it.

  4. Non fighting, non loot games... by blahplusplus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "I don't care much about, though, is that they are still focused on killing monsters and amassing wealth, and it gets very tedious after a while. Are there really no games where the goal isn't so much about increasing your own power and defeating others, but where you instead grow by doing things that benefit others, where enemies shouldn't be killed out of hand, but befriended; where learning, teaching, research and social skills are more important than killing and conquering?"

    The truth is not enough is known to make such a game, not only that it is subject to aesthetic prejudices and what not. I would imagine text adventures would fall into the realm you're looking for... any GUI based game needs all the bells and whistles to be compelling to an audience.

    If the market wanted such games it would demand them and pay for them, you are in an extreme minority IMHO.

    The technology is not there yet to do "social" games, the AI and interfaces are pretty primitive and no computer NPC's would be believable, hell games have a hard enough time portraying well voice acted computer animated characters with gusto... the truth is what the OP wants in the story is not technically within our means, and most "help each other games" are subject to the same kind of politics and BS and those who have free time vs those who don't (disproportionately kids, teens or idiots).

    Finally.. go do good deeds in the real world, that is what the real world is for. Games are an escape from real life, that is what they are supposed to be - fantasy and wish fulfillment.

    The point of games is to do what is entertaining. Almost all videogames have elements of competition in them, or competition against the computer.

  5. The answer is obvious. by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 4, Funny

    Doom.

  6. M.U.L.E. by alienghic · · Score: 5, Interesting

    M.U.L.E, players who cooperated had a better outcome for their colony than when everyone was back stabbing each other. (Not that I knew that when I was playing.) The genre of "German Boardgames" avoids violence and usually has an interplay of cooperation and competition, there are computer implementations of some of the more popular, like settlers of catan.

  7. Animal Crossing by Chlorus · · Score: 4, Informative

    That game was pretty much designed just for this scenario. Hell, as a hardcore gamer (logged nearly 1000 hours in FFXI) even I enjoyed it. Sequel's gonna be out in the US on the 16th, too.

    1. Re:Animal Crossing by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 4, Funny

      Animal Crossing

      Is that anything like Frogger?

    2. Re:Animal Crossing by NemosomeN · · Score: 3, Funny

      Animal Crossing is the most boring, inane idea for a game. You go to a new town, some guy comes and gives you a job that you can't refuse, puts you in debt repeatedly, whether you want it or not, and leaves you to spend all of your time delivering crap and doing chores. I've lost countless hours of my life to that damned game.... Brb, gotta check turnip prices.

      --
      I hate grammar Nazi's.
  8. A Tale in the Desert by tsa · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I sought long and hard for just the games you mentioned after Myst Online crashed for the second time, and the only thing I found is A Tale of the Desert. This game exactly suits your needs, I think. No violence, you can trade stuff you grew or made, etc. I never played it because I basically want MystOnline to be back online, but I think you should give it a try.

    --

    -- Cheers!

  9. OpenTTD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Open Transport Tycoon Deluxe. http://www.openttd.org/

    It's an open source recode of the original classic game, but with all the tweaks to bring it up to modern standards (8-players multiplayer, huge maps, better cargo routing algorithms, etc). Fantastic stuff.

    There's also a large massively OpenTTD cooperative group, focussing on ways of making huge efficient cargo networks and other scenarios. http://www.openttdcoop.org/blog/

  10. You haven't looked too hard at both FPS genres... by GrpA · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You just described *half* the FPS genres out there... Seriously.

    There were two different FPS genres establised in the early 90s

    The first type (and first 3D FPS game) started with a game called Ultima Underworld, and was an open-goal type of FPS where you could do many things and interact with many people. You could achieve your goals by helping people, or perhaps if you were more ruthless, killing them (although the latter often had consequences).

    The second was called Wolfenstein 3D. It's the more common type of FPS. Just run around blowing things up. That's the plot... And make your way through a level.

    Still, it's gone of from there - Both types of game type exist within the whole of the FPS type of gameset.

    Games such as Dark Messiah and Deus Ex ( and sequels ) is a help-people type of game (if you want to) while games like Doom, Quake etc, are a If-it-moves-kill-it-if-it-doesn't-kill-it-anyway sort of FPS.

    The same themes exist in many other games. The extent varies and they often get a bit of each mixed in (eg, System shoch is the latter with a little bit of the first)

    Try some of the "Single-player" focus FPS games.... They can often be played mostly non-violently - eg, stealth, skill, persausion.

    Of course, if you want violence banned from the game entirely, there's always "My Little Ponies" but as an adult, part of the enjoyment of a game is making decisions and seeing the outcome. Sometimes you choose the stick, sometimes the carrot, but at the end of the day, it's your choice on how you want to play.

    GrpA.

    --
    Enjoy science fiction? "Turing Evolved" - AI, Mecha, Androids and rail-gun battles. What more could you want?
  11. I think my girlfriend's Civ 4 experience... by JimboFBX · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ... best explains this. Play Civ 4. Play it by researching and trading and and expanding with friendly means. Play through the game on settler and never get attacked, and there is never any conflict or risk of losing. Then be so bored you dont want to come back.

    After her second game which I forced her to play, on a higher difficulty, she made the comment "war is the part that is more fun".

    And that is why games center more on violence.

  12. Re:World of Goo by Goldberg's+Pants · · Score: 3, Informative

    World of Goo is on the PC too.

  13. Re:You haven't looked too hard at both FPS genres. by p0tat03 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Games such as Dark Messiah and Deus Ex ( and sequels ) is a help-people type of game (if you want to)

    I think the OP's point is that even games like Deus Ex cannot be played in a completely peaceful way. While DX did give you ways to end many situations peacefully, you would be quite hard-pressed to not commit any acts of violence through the entire game. I've gone through without a single kill (except those required by the story), but I don't think it's possible not to *attack* at all.

  14. Planescape: Torment by Kandenshi · · Score: 3, Informative

    How about Planescape: Torment?

    The complex and storyline-based nature of the game means that gameplay often focuses on resolution of quest and story objectives through selection from available dialogue choices, rather than combat. Simply stopping and having a long (often very long) chat with one of the other members of the player's group can often advance the game more (and reveal more surprising things) than hours of combat and questing in other games. In fact, there are only four or so required combat encounters within the game, while contemporary role-playing games have tens or hundreds. All other encounters can be resolved or avoided through dialogue or stealth.

    Planescape: Torment is notable for the quality and quantity of textual dialogue it contains. It is estimated that the game's script contains around 800,000 words. A review in the New York Times noted that, "The game's level of detail and its emotional impact have prompted some players to cast about for literary peers."

    It has some pretty witty dialogue too, and it's an interesting universe. You may be familiar with the general principles if you ever dabbled in D&D, though naturally some adaptations were made to make sure it worked better as a computer game.

    It has some issues(for one, finding a legitimate copy). There were some bugs in the final shipped version and it's not supported anymore, but fans have fixed a few more of the bugs and have a patch available(linked in the wikipedia article, reference 9).

    You are of course free to slaughter all sorts of things in the game(though there are consequences for killing lots of townfolk or dabus' in particular). But you don't have to by any stretch of the imagination, and usually you shouldn't just stick your knife in things for fun. Heck, the final boss fight at the end of the game can be resolved in a couple different ways through dialogue(and this approach gives IMO by far the most satisfying ending). Wisdom is by far the most important stat in the game for The Nameless One, followed by Int and then Cha.

    I'd heartily recommend it, as do some game reviewing companies for what that's worth.

  15. Fold It! by gringer · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Try Foldit. It's a game where you fold proteins to get a ranking / score (no money incentive at the moment). If you want to cooperate, join a team and evolve someone else's folded protein. There's also a duel mode, where you battle against someone else, trying to fold a protein in as few moves as possible.

    And just in case you're interested, the folding helps researchers who are looking for ways in which humans can fold better than computers.

    --
    Ask me about repetitive DNA
  16. Alternatives by TheLink · · Score: 5, Funny

    How about Instant Messaging and facebook?

    Seems quite popular. Lots of people go about collecting friends/"friends".

    Some of the AIs involved may even surprise you once in a while and say something coherent and intelligent.

    Then there's also Slashdot. ;)

    --
    1. Re:Alternatives by Poltras · · Score: 4, Funny

      Facebook is to slashdot what Turing Tests are to Skynet.