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Pinpointing Creativity In the Brain

The Times Online has a lengthy story about the work being done to solve mysteries regarding the brain and various aspects of neuroscience. They discuss some of the "brain-training" myths and look at the quest to determine when and where creative thought originates. Quoting: "In fact, the whole process seems to be centred on one small part of the brain: the anterior superior temporal gyrus. This seems to be the point at which bits of information stored far apart in the brain are brought together. This may be an important clue as to how the brain organises itself. But it's only the beginning. At Goldsmiths College in London, Dr Joydeep Bhattacharya says the real issue is not the 'Aha!' moment itself, but the way it is produced in the brain and how we recognise it. 'We need to know the brain processes involved, to find how this moment is strong enough to reach consciousness. We know insight does not come from the sky.' This is the problem with all neuroscience. We don't really know what we are seeing."

30 of 85 comments (clear)

  1. Creativity a gift, or learned? by liquidMONKEY · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I remember talking to one of my teachers once and saying to him that creativity can't be taught. He disagreed and said creativity comes from pressure and deadlines. Not really anything to do with this article, but I thought it was an interesting point nonetheless...

    1. Re:Creativity a gift, or learned? by liquidMONKEY · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's different for different people I suppose. Those nuts who are always saying "I love a challenge, I love working under pressure."

    2. Re:Creativity a gift, or learned? by negRo_slim · · Score: 4, Informative

      Completely wrong. Stress increases focus on a singular task, while creativity needs to look at how many bits fit together.

      Cortisol, commonly referred to as the stress hormone. I believe is less about focus and more about creating memory for difficult or life threatening situations. Of course that only works when the stress is short term. Nowadays... well you know...

      --
      On the Oregon Cost born and raised, On the beach is where I spent most of my days
    3. Re:Creativity a gift, or learned? by blahplusplus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "He disagreed and said creativity comes from pressure and deadlines."

      I disagree, creativity comes from simply spending time on a problem. There are many problems that take years of sitting on before one comes to a conclusion in many fields, where a person has worked on a problem off and on in their spare time. Much 'creativity' is just as much spending time doing combinations in a random/blind search as anything else.

      If we had the ability to take what was imagined in a persons mind and directly translate it into images and sounds, I think we would see a lot more 'creativity' and 'genius'. Right now the bottleneck is getting the creativity out of the head, not the brain itself, but in expressing inward ideas and notions outwardly.

      I'm sure there are many 'genius' creatives out there who have sick genius imaginations but simply never had the inclination nor the means to express it.

    4. Re:Creativity a gift, or learned? by Hojima · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Your comment is nearly spot-on. Creativity comes from obsession. Albert Einstein was quoted attributing his success to his passion rather than his natural talent. And there is no question as to whether Isac Newton was obsessed with his work. No one got their work done in a day, in fact, even though you can learn some of their accomplishments in less than a week (sometimes faster), it took them years to create and perfect. Although there is always a defining moment that they realize something, there is always some gradual progress that it takes to get there. Also, TFA mentions brain training and hints at neuroplasticity, but it has no mention of neurofeedback. The brain is similar to a muscle in that it can be improved, but only with the proper use. Neurofeedback doesn't have to be used for treatment, it can also be used to improve the mind and even to induce a hypnogogic state, which is shown to dramatically increase creativity. Just use wikipedia to read more into the subject, as the links I could post here wouldn't fit.

  2. This article is a mess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is some sloppy neuroscience journalism for sure. For example, Phineas Gage *didn't* recover, he was left with an altered and uncontrolled psyche by his tamping rod accident--they missed the entire point of his story.

    The article is a wandering slop of poorly presented and disparate facts.

    1. Re:This article is a mess by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      They also picked an unfortunate example here:

      "The discovery of the structure of DNA by Watson and Crick in 1953 was a clear example of convergent thinking â" the one correct answer was a double helix."

      Watson's story of the discovery moment of the double helix is a classic example of just the opposite: he says he was in a dream-like state and he saw the double helix floating in front of him.

    2. Re:This article is a mess by JoeMerchant · · Score: 2, Funny

      ... a wandering slop of poorly presented and disparate facts.

      From my observation, this is an accurate description of the field of Neuroscience in general.

  3. Brain Workshop by De+Lemming · · Score: 4, Informative

    From the article:

    But don't despair: Susanne Jaeggi, a psychologist at the University of Michigan, may be able to help. She has devised a brain-training game that actually works. It's a strange, complex game involving sequences of squares on a computer screen, and it definitely improves "fluid intelligence" - the part of your mind that deals directly with the raw newness of experience or, as defined by Jaeggi, "the ability to reason and to solve new problems independently of previously acquired knowledge".

    Here is a link to the abstract of her study. And the project Brain Workshop has released an open source version of the game used in the study.

    1. Re:Brain Workshop by negRo_slim · · Score: 3, Insightful

      âoeThereâ(TM)s no empirical evidence that these games produce improvements,â says Nancy Andreasen

      That may very well be the case but are they forgetting about the Placebo effect a game like Brain Age might induce? Or for that matter, isn't using your brain in any active matter preferable to just letting it sit idle and passive in front of say, a tv?

      --
      On the Oregon Cost born and raised, On the beach is where I spent most of my days
    2. Re:Brain Workshop by Dr_Banzai · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm the author of Brain Workshop, an implementation of Suzanne Jaeggi's Dual N-Back task. The scientific basis of the dual n-back task differentiates it from regular Brain Age-type games. I highly encourage everyone to try it out. There is currently more research underway to confirm the positive effects on short term memory and fluid intelligence.

      Brain Workshop works on Windows, Mac OS X and Linux and is completely free.

      Join the Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence forum & mailing list for some interesting discussions.

  4. AHA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    So they are not looking for the 'Aha! moment', but for the 'Aha!, an Aha! moment'... I feel some sort of recursive problem arising.

    wait...

    AHA!

    1. Re:AHA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      The only AHA i can think of is A-HA

      Now i have that literal version of "take on me" stuck in my head.

  5. Dr. Joydeep by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I think I've found my new porn star name!

    1. Re:Dr. Joydeep by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      What was your old one?

  6. FTFA: the the Mann Gulch fire of 1949 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    FTFA:

    At 6pm on August 5, 1949, a fireman named Wag Dodge and his crew found themselves cut off by a wildfire in Mann Gulch River Valley, Montana. A wall of flame was coming towards them at 30mph. Dodge took a match out of his pocket and set fire to the grass immediately in front of him, stepped into the cleared space, covered his face and pressed himself into the ground so that he could breathe the thin layer of air beneath the smoke cloud. The fire rushed over him and he survived. The other 13 members of the crew hadn't heard his order to do the same. They all died.

    The song Cold Missouri Waters is based on that event.

    (Note: There are a lot of bands that covered that song, but I like the cover by Cry Cry Cry the best, so that's the one I linked to. They also do a really good cover of REM's Fall on Me.)

  7. Neuroscience, creativity and the brain by davecrusoe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Without having read the study, my contribution is that it's still early to concede that any particular part of the brain is the center of creativity, or that psychology actually has a specific definition for creativity.

    My own work focused on a different squiggly piece of cortex, called the Prefrontal Cortex, that is implicated in a range of abstract thinking processes, including those that don't seem to emerge until later adolescence.

    The good Doctor does seem to have an important insight in his work, which is that the locus of creativity (probably) starts much earlier than a thought present in our conscious mind.

    One possible idea is that our brain is constantly combining and recombining disparate data stored in memories; the presence of a creative thought is a novel combination that, when applied to a specific problem, results in a novel and perhaps workable solution.

    And, in finishing, I would agree that short-term training is unlikely to produce creativity, unless a) the training is extremely specific and b) the test is extremely specific, in which case I would wonder whether we're measuring creativity.

    Overall, however, scientific processes (MRI, etc) are so rough that it will be quite some time before we're able to actually "explore" and "find" the center of whatever creativity really is, and identify how it differs from other, more pedestrian thought processes.

    Cheers,
    --Dave

    1. Re:Neuroscience, creativity and the brain by negRo_slim · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Without having read the study, my contribution is that it's still early to concede that any particular part of the brain is the center of creativity, or that psychology actually has a specific definition for creativity.

      Ditto on not reading the article. I do however read a lot of Scientific American in it's various flavors. And I encourage you all to read SciAm: Mind Volume 19, Number 5, Oct/Nov 2008: Page 67. It's an article on how "colorful scans have lulled us into an oversimplified conception of the brain as a modular machine". Quite simply to try and suggest there is a creativity center when so many processes in the brain can be involved, and with as little as we really know, is as absurd to me as announcing they found a copy of the "Windows Task Manager" in the brain.

      --
      On the Oregon Cost born and raised, On the beach is where I spent most of my days
    2. Re:Neuroscience, creativity and the brain by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 2, Insightful

      One possible idea is that our brain is constantly combining and recombining disparate data stored in memories

      Sounds a lot like dreams to me!

    3. Re:Neuroscience, creativity and the brain by ceoyoyo · · Score: 3, Informative

      One thing you have to remember is that those colourful scans are basically showing p-values. The coloured bits are the parts that are statistically associated with some stimulus to some significance threshold.

      fMRI can't even image anything except change, and even then, if you look at the raw data you get something MUCH more complex than the neat little statistical blobs.

    4. Re:Neuroscience, creativity and the brain by Dr.+Winston+O'Boogie · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The most important part pointed out here: how can you look for "creativity" until you first define it?

      The simplest thought could be creative for a given person given their experiences and the exact same thought for someone else would not be deemed creative due to a different set of experiences. How then can anyone judge the "creativeness" of a thought without having a complete knowledge of the entire past experiences of a person?

    5. Re:Neuroscience, creativity and the brain by leomekenkamp · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I am puzzled by your comment. Why is getting to know your inner workings 'dehumanizing'? I find it quite the opposite: we are by nature curious to know how things work, also how our own bodies work. Our brain is just one part of our bodies, a significant part, but still a part; why would we want to know how our hart works but not how our brain works?. Where would you draw the line in knowing how we function?

      We are constantly being further reduced to mere chemicals.

      No, we are not reduced in any way: we stay the same. The models that describe how we work are being refined so that we can treat diseases and improve on the quality of life. Knowledge about ourselves changes.

      drugs now replace life experience and the freedom to choose anything for ourselves

      Drug use is common throughout human history; using plants, herbs and mushrooms for instance to treat diseases, prevent pregnancy and enter different states of consciousness has been a part of human societies since the prehistory.

      The Borg is a vision of future human beings.

      Yes, so are (were?) The Jetsons. The Borg are an oversimplification of how we might develop; that vision was created to enjoy ourselves, just like stories about the boogieman and Nightmare on Elm St. Knowing how we work has nothing to do with enslavement. More the opposite, I reckon.

      --
      Wenn ist das Nunstueck git und Slotermeyer? Ja! Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput.
  8. It is that spot... by retech · · Score: 3, Funny

    most surrounded by THC and alcohol. Very easy to pinpoint.

  9. Re:So what would happen if... by Sanat · · Score: 2, Funny

    He also would hide his own easter eggs.

    --
    And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make
  10. And once they pinpoint it... by Greyfox · · Score: 2, Interesting
    They can stop it... FOREVER!

    Or not, but you know there are some rather large and rather vocal groups out there who would rather humanity not be as creative as it is...

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  11. Correct. Crick took LSD and saw DNA structure. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Nobel Prize genius Crick was high on LSD when he discovered the secret of life

    BY ALUN REES

    FRANCIS CRICK, the Nobel Prize-winning father of modern genetics, was under the influence of LSD when he first deduced thedouble-helix structure of DNA nearly 50 years ago.

    The abrasive and unorthodox Crick and his brilliant American co-researcher James Watson famously celebrated their eureka moment in March 1953 by running from the now legendary Cavendish Laboratory in Cambridge to the nearby Eagle pub, where they announced over pints of bitter that they had discovered the secret of life.

    Crick, who died ten days ago, aged 88, later told a fellow scientist that he often used small doses of LSD then an experimental drug used in psychotherapy to boost his powers of thought. He said it was LSD, not the Eagle's warm beer, that helped him to unravel the structure of DNA, the discovery that won him the Nobel Prize.

    See http://www.miqel.com/entheogens/francis_crick_dna_lsd.html

  12. Bipolar disorder and creativity - my experience by Atari400 · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Hi,

    I have bipolar disorder, a reasonably high IQ, and count myself as a creative person. It's difficult to describe how it feels to come up with something new, sometimes someone will just explain a problem to me, and I'll say straight away, "have you tried...." and they'll just look at me. It's kind of instant analysis and solution - I don't know where it comes from. When I was studying for my degree, I would try and come up with solutions that were non-standard, but still worked, just because I thought that was more interesting. At other times I'll get a sense that there's an answer wrapped up in the problem, one that no one else has found, but I have to really sit down and think about it. The longest I've thought about a problem (and come up with a solution) is 24 years. Of course, that was on and off thinking. It felt great when I got the answer.

    --
    IBM doesn't play chess with the Universe.
    1. Re:Bipolar disorder and creativity - my experience by leomekenkamp · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As the poster above me already commented, there seems to be a connection between being bipolar and creativity. I do not know if you can watch BBC programs, but Stephen Fry (of "A Bit Of Fry And Laury (*)" comedy fame) is bipolar as well and highly creative (at times). He made a series of TV programs about it, talking to people with the same 'disorder'. I only saw one, but found it very fascinating.

      If you have not seen it, I would certainly suggest getting your hands on it.

      (*): That's Hugh Laury, who now plays dr. House in the US TV series "House".

      --
      Wenn ist das Nunstueck git und Slotermeyer? Ja! Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput.
  13. That is actually well known phenomenon by S3D · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Creativity and bipolar disorder was studied lately, and it seems there is some correlation. Cognitive deficits in bipolar disorder seems insignificant or absent. Generally mental disorder often associated with super-creative people, and not only artistic. Goedel and arguably Perelman come to mind.

  14. Noisy brains? by VoidCrow · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Exeriments on neural nets suggest that a trained net may generate 'ideas' based in its training if the 'neurons' are deliberately somewhat noisy.

    Some drugs make some people more creative. Weed has that effect on me... is it just ramping up the background neural noise level?

    My brother, who is Mister Focus with respect to my Miss Random, gets little or no effect from weed. Quote: 'It gives me a slight buzz; that's all'.

    Anyone ever done an MRI study on the effects of drugs?