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Ender in Exile

stoolpigeon writes "Orson Scott Card's work Ender's Game began as a novelette, which he says he wrote as a means of leading up to the full story he had developed, Speaker for the Dead. Ender's Game was published as a full novel in 1985, and won the Hugo and Nebula awards (as did Speaker for the Dead in '86 and '87). I think it is safe to say that Ender's Game is ensconced in its position as a science fiction classic. Now, 23 years later, Card has finished the first direct sequel to Ender's Game in his new novel Ender in Exile." Keep reading for the rest of JR's review. Ender in Exile author Orson Scott Card pages 377 publisher Tor Books rating 7 reviewer JR Peck ISBN 978-0765304964 summary A good midquel in the Ender's series While Speaker for the Dead was published right after Ender's Game, there is a huge gap in time between the two stories. Due to the effects of traveling at close to light speed, thousands of years pass between the two novels. Chapter fifteen of Ender's Game does give an explanation of the events that fill that time. Card also went on to write other novels set in the Ender universe that do not involve Ender directly but rather other students from the battle school and family. This makes Ender in Exile more of a 'midquel', a term Card uses in the afterword, than a sequel. Because of this, from a high level view of the plot, readers who have stuck with the saga will not find much new here. This is a closer look at events already related in other books for the most part.

Card is an able author and this story is solid. Much of it reminded me of some of my favorite classic science fiction. There is colonization, extended periods of life aboard space ships, discovery of alien civilization and not much in the way of hard science. Card's primary purpose is to analyze and consider the human condition as opposed to exploring technological possibilities or theories. Almost everything that is highly advanced is the result of alien technology and is never explained or understood. Much of it functions on an almost mystical or magical level.

Ender is a young adolescent with an incredibly unique life and mind. In this novel we see him transitioning and growing from a youth into a man. I was often reminded of Herbert's Paul Atreides when he was first on the run in the desert with his mother in the book Dune. Ender is aware that he is different and has amazing capabilities but he is unsure just what the full ramifications of that difference are. He is trying to find his place in humanity and in the universe as a whole.

The story encompasses four basic plot lines that flow one to the next. I never felt any great sense of urgency or climax and resolution in the story. Really what it felt like was a thread weaving together pieces from the earlier stories. While the themes and issues were great, sometimes the characters were remote or the working of the issues very subtle. The most impacting and emotional moments relied upon knowledge of events from the other books in the series to carry their full force. In that light the novel is very effective. I think that fans of the Ender series, already biased towards this work, are going to be very pleased and enjoy Ender in Exile greatly. They are going to get to dig just a bit deeper into this world and it's primary character Andrew Wiggin. They will enjoy moments of discovery and the answer to questions that may have been in the back of their minds, possibly for the last twenty years or so.

On the other hand, someone new to the series may not be as enthralled and may find the story to be a bit flat. If I could I would rate this book in two ways. For those who have not read all the other Ender books, a 6 or 7. This is not bad since the book is designed to sit in the middle of an existing set of tales. It is possible that someone could pick this book up without having read a single Ender story or novel and track with it. I think they would even find it interesting if a little flat. But for a fan of the series with a high degree of familiarity with the characters and events of this world it is probably a solid 8 or 9. At the very least, Card has done nothing to tear down what he has built up but has completed a sturdy addition to the body of work.

In the afterword Card has some interesting comments to make about reader involvement in helping him to write this story. He also explains how he would like to approach some discrepancies between this story and what is related at the conclusion to Ender's Game. I thought it was a sign of the times that an author, facing a large and complex world he had created but could not track on his own, was able to use the internet to call upon readers assistance in achieving as much consistency as possible.

This is a thoughtful, well written book. It may even motivate some to dig up an old copy of Ender's Game so that they can relive the enjoyment of a classic and see what is new to find. I think that most will not be disappointed. Some may not be as thrilled as they would hope, but there is something here for any science fiction fan.

On a side note, in conjunction with the release of this new book, Marvel Comics is doing a limited series comic adaptation of the original Ender's Game novel.

You can purchase Ender in Exile from amazon.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.

80 of 507 comments (clear)

  1. Hey, remember when Ender's Game was good? by jollyreaper · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yeah, kinda peaked at Speaker for the Dead, went downhill since. Cue XKFD comic but I'll let someone else whore for that karma.

    --
    Kwisatz Haderach
    Sell the spice to CHOAM
    This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    1. Re:Hey, remember when Ender's Game was good? by arth1 · · Score: 2, Informative

      The "review" fails to mention whether the book is as full of proselytising and glorifying christian "values" as his other later books.
      Based on the direction his books have twisted in, I would like to know this before I buy (or don't buy).

    2. Re:Hey, remember when Ender's Game was good? by WalksOnDirt · · Score: 2, Interesting

      For me it peaked at the initial novelette, which I did think was very good. I read a couple of the books but I didn't find them interesting.

      --
      a,e,i,o,u and sometimes w and y (at be if of up cwm by)
    3. Re:Hey, remember when Ender's Game was good? by Lord+Ender · · Score: 2, Informative

      Card lost his mind. He's a fanatical religious hate-monger. He proposed violently overthrowing the government if gays are given the right to marry. I'm never buying anything he writes again.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    4. Re:Hey, remember when Ender's Game was good? by PC+and+Sony+Fanboy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I thought Xenocide was a good sequel. But it doesn't stand independant of enders game, and although it is good, it is only good because of the great book that the first one was...

    5. Re:Hey, remember when Ender's Game was good? by Lord+Apathy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm sorry but you need to put down the crack pipe NOW!. It is common knowledge that Xenocide and children of the mind where the worse. Speaker for the dead was the best of the books after Enders Game and Ender's Game was the best and should have stood alone. There should only one and all that jazz.

      We won't even bother with the shadow books. Books that never should have been written.

      --

      Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification

    6. Re:Hey, remember when Ender's Game was good? by stoolpigeon · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm not sure - he mentions monogamy as the optimum more than once - but I don't think it would really stand out unless one was already aware of some of the controversy around some of Card's statements on issues.
       
      There is a lot of time contemplating the morality of killing especially in regards to self-defense. I don't know that their is necessarily any position espoused beyond it being better not to kill others if possible. The book raises more questions than it gives answers. It didn't feel overly preachy to me - from any viewpoint - Christian or otherwise. Hopefully that helps to answer your "question".

      --
      It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
    7. Re:Hey, remember when Ender's Game was good? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Just read some of it at your local bookstore. Unlike the RIAA and MPAA, it's ok to obtain a free copy and use it a little before deciding if you want to purchase it or not.

      There's also this thing called a "Library" that contains an ancient form of knowledge, conveyed using smudges of pigment on dried plant fiber.

    8. Re:Hey, remember when Ender's Game was good? by bhima · · Score: 5, Funny

      So... I have to ask. Did you come to that conclusion before or after you selected your nick?

      --
      Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
    9. Re:Hey, remember when Ender's Game was good? by Rayban · · Score: 4, Informative

      He managed to keep the preaching out of the homecoming series, which had an openly-gay character. The character (Zdorab) had some bizarre views that were obviously influenced by Card's worldview, but it didn't take away from the book.

      The homecoming series dealt (though not as the primary focus) with some of the morality of "forcing" monogamous relationships on a small tribe of humans disconnected from society.

      I think he's an annoying editorial writer with back-asswards views, but this atheist can still enjoy his works.

      --
      æeee!
    10. Re:Hey, remember when Ender's Game was good? by Lord+Ender · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As you can tell from the UID, I've been using that name for a long time. I picked that name when signing up for slashdot in the nineties. I was reading Ender's Game at the time.

      A decade later, I would like to change the name, but I don't want to lose the karma and the low UID :-(

      But as a onetime fan of Card's work, I am saddened to learn that he shares much in common with groups like the Taliban.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    11. Re:Hey, remember when Ender's Game was good? by MozeeToby · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It isn't so much about 'preachy-ness' as it is about 'propaganda-ness'. In the Shadow series, for instance, we have the homosexual character of Anton. He is not in any way evil, Card doesn't ask us to fear or hate him as you might expect from a right wing writer.

      Instead (and arguably worse), when we are first introduced to Anton we are asked to pity him. He is given a ludicrously strong cognitive dissonance to ham handedly symbolize the dissonance that Card assumes the man must have because of his lifestyle. He is utterly lonely and unhappy, and it is heavily implied that he has considered suicide as the only option to end his suffering.

      Later in the story, Anton has *gasp* married. No, not to a man, but to a woman. In fact he is going to be a father. He is happy, talkative, and engaging. He mentions in passing that his homosexual tendancies have made his marriage harder but that with work they are able to get through it and live a full and happy life.

      In my opinion, this is a more disgusting attack on gay rights than any violent diatrabe could ever be.

    12. Re:Hey, remember when Ender's Game was good? by Leebert · · Score: 4, Funny

      I kind of liked Ender's Shadow, but a while after I read it, I realized that I now looked on Ender more as middle-management. :)

    13. Re:Hey, remember when Ender's Game was good? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The Homecoming series is a thinly-veiled rewrite (and interpolation) of the first part of the Book of Mormon (Card is Mormon). I didn't really like them from a literary standpoint.
      On the other hand, they helped me see the works I'd been raised to believe were the word of God in an entirely new light--I'm also atheist now.

    14. Re:Hey, remember when Ender's Game was good? by dgris · · Score: 5, Funny

      As you can tell from the UID, I've been using that name for a long time.

      I don't want to lose the karma and the low UID

      Lol. 6-digit "low" uid. Freakin' newbies. ;-)

      --
      All I needed to know in life I learned from /usr/man.
    15. Re:Hey, remember when Ender's Game was good? by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Honestly, I think you're reading things into the books that aren't there. I never got the implication that Anton was suffering for any propagandized reason, or that he was gay for that matter. I certainly didn't think that it was odd that a lonely man would be happy when he had a family to keep him company, that's how anyone who had experienced years of loneliness would react.

      I can't help but feel that this is someone reading into the book what they want to read into it, which is what I find, 9/10 times, is at fault when people talk about the author being preachy about his/her values. I just didn't see any evidence for the claims you make in Card's books.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    16. Re:Hey, remember when Ender's Game was good? by JoshuaZ · · Score: 2, Informative

      Oooh oooh! I want karma! The relevant xkcd is http://xkcd.com/304/ . Also while I'm here I'll note that Munroe has stated that his use of Xenocide wasn't based on knowledge that it was widely considered to be not a great book but rather that he personally did not like it the first time he read it. See http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Randall_Munroe,_writer_of_xkcd,_talks_about_the_comic,_politics_and_the_internet where I interviewed Munroe for Wikinews.

    17. Re:Hey, remember when Ender's Game was good? by PC+and+Sony+Fanboy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ender's Game is yet another run-of-the-mill sci-fi novel

      yes, perhaps if it was published today. But when it was published, there was nothing else like it. So, perhaps you should brush up on your sci-fi history.

    18. Re:Hey, remember when Ender's Game was good? by PC+and+Sony+Fanboy · · Score: 2, Funny

      Fantasy is very popular with religious people as fantasy is their life as well as a diversion.

      Isn't that why they go to church?

    19. Re:Hey, remember when Ender's Game was good? by phrenq · · Score: 4, Funny

      "basic Mormon tenants"

      Those are the best kind. Always out proselytizing so there's hardy any wear on the apartment.

    20. Re:Hey, remember when Ender's Game was good? by juuri · · Score: 4, Funny

      screw you old man, us newbs are taking over

      --
      --- I do not moderate.
    21. Re:Hey, remember when Ender's Game was good? by Chris+Burke · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think he's an annoying editorial writer with back-asswards views, but this atheist can still enjoy his works.

      I find his personal politics abhorrent, but I can't really find any fault with how those views may be expressed in his works. I mean, his personal politics are quite absolutist and shallow, yet in his books we have people of differing opinions trying to make moral and practical choices in extremely difficult situations, and often pay a heavy price for whatever choice they do make. It's the depth of the moral conflicts in the books that interested me.

      That said, I only found out about his personal politics after having already acquired and read as many of his books as I cared to (because it seemed the quality was dropping off). If I was going out to buy Ender's Game for the first time today, knowing what I do about the author, I may reconsider the purchase.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    22. Re:Hey, remember when Ender's Game was good? by Dystopian+Rebel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Gods don't kill people, people with gods kill people.

      Sig well done. I think I already subscribe to your newsletter.

      --
      Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
    23. Re:Hey, remember when Ender's Game was good? by brianmorrison · · Score: 2, Funny

      Until you learn the difference between "yolk" and "yoke", Please Do Not Serve Me Eggs!

    24. Re:Hey, remember when Ender's Game was good? by pcgabe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Seriously, get a clue. 6 digit UID isn't special.

      ...says the guy with a 7-digit UID.

      --
      Don't put advice in your sig.
    25. Re:Hey, remember when Ender's Game was good? by TrekkieGod · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But as a onetime fan of Card's work, I am saddened to learn that he shares much in common with groups like the Taliban.

      When I found out about Card's personal views I was pretty surprised. I agree that they're fairly extremist views, and I pretty much disagree with him in every way.

      However I don't really see the hate toward his books. I see all these posts saying that his books are advertisements for his religion, his anti-gay views, whatever. I don't think he's doing that. In fact, it's pretty hard to reconcile his pro-war views with the pain Ender felt when he discovered his own wargames were part of an actual war.

      I will agree that his books are somewhat colored by his views, but you can't expect an author to do otherwise. The best sci-fi is a comment on society, and it has to end up being the author's comment on society. If you were to sit down and write a book, your hero would form decisions that agreed with your morals. He's the good guy, he has to do what you think the good guy would do. Feel free to disagree with the man on his personal views (I do), but judge his work on its own merits. If you liked Ender's Game once, there's no reason to start disliking it because you found out something about the author that you didn't know before.

      I like Ender's Game and Speaker for the Dead (the only two I've read). If I were to criticize them for something, it would be for the somewhat amateurish writing style (in my opinion). I don't see what makes them so cult worthy among so many awesome sci-fi novels, but they're pretty good.

      --

      Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.

    26. Re:Hey, remember when Ender's Game was good? by Nick+Ives · · Score: 2, Funny

      Don't be disrespectful to your elders, death to all 4 digit and above UIDs!

      --
      Nick
    27. Re:Hey, remember when Ender's Game was good? by pthisis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I realize we left the realm of rational thought behind a while ago, and are now waging fan warfare (I'm ok with this, it's fun, but one has to recognize it for what it is ;)), but I do feel compelled to make a serious point here: just because more people agree with you than me doesn't make you right, and me wrong. Art being a subjective medium, tastes in art can't be wrong or right.

      No, but being a subjective medium means that appeals to consensus are much more useful than idiosyncratic opinions. If I'm trying to figure out what movie to watch, knowing that a lot of people consider the Godfather to be a great film is more likely to get me to watch it than one person saying that Weekend at Bernie's II was better.

      The individual opinion is useful, though, if:
      a) I have some reason to think that person's taste is more aligned with my own than popular consensus (e.g. I know a lot of other stuff they like and dislike, and what appeals to them seems akin to what appeals to me); or
      b) They offer a compelling explanation as to why they have their preference, and that explanation seems to coincide with my own foibles;
      c) They are offering up a little-known example such that there isn't much consensus about its quality.

      There should probably be more entries on this list, but those are the 3 that immediately come to mind.

      --
      rage, rage against the dying of the light
    28. Re:Hey, remember when Ender's Game was good? by Mongoose+Disciple · · Score: 5, Insightful

      His position is simple: the government does not get to redefine "marriage" any more than it gets to redefine "day" and "night."

      And yet, the definition of marriage has certainly changed over the years. Without dogpiling on the Mormons more, feel free to read the Bible/Torah/Koran and count how many wives people have. Next, count how many wives men in America are allowed now.

      Or, look back to less than a hundred years ago when white people in America couldn't marry black people.

      Every time the issue has been brought to a vote, the overwhelming majority of Americans do not support gay marriage.

      Discounting your 'overwhelming majority' for the moment...

      Sixty years ago, the 'overwhelming majority' of Americans did not support interracial marriage. The courts, correctly, intervened to prevent the tyranny of the majority.

      In fifty years, kids will be taught in school that gay people didn't used to be able to marry, and they're going to wonder how anyone could deny such an obvious human right the same way we wonder how anyone could have ever opposed interracial marriage, women's suffrage, or the end of slavery. The future is always on its way and it's not on your side.

    29. Re:Hey, remember when Ender's Game was good? by crmarvin42 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Anton married because he wanted to help the woman raise a child, not because he himself wanted to breed. He even stated this plainly. It's is normally necessary for adults to engage in heterosexual sex in order to reproduce, but this solution allowed Anton the opportunity to be a father without having to engage in heterosexual acts. If anything this is could be viewed as an example of showing that he believes that homosexuals would make good parents. Have you even read the book in question?

      Being homosexual is not the sin, engaging in homosexual acts is the sin. Same thing with being an alcoholic, drug addict, possessed of a homicidal temper, etc. It's the performance of those actions that have been labeled as sins by the faith you belong to that are the sin, not the desire or inclination to perform them in most judeo-christian denominations. The ACT is the sin.

      Now, I don't personally agree with his definition of right and wrong, nor do I agree with all of his politics. However, that doesn't mean that I should go looking through all of his written works trying to find reasons not to like them in order to bolster my belief that my opinions are correct and his are false and demonize him for it. It's self aggrandizing reinforcement of your own perceived moral superiority.

      If you read his columns regularly instead of just googling for bits a pieces to trot out as evidence of his "vileness" you'd see that he has homosexual friends and has a fairly compassionate view of the gay community and individuals despite his stated belief in the doctrines of Mormansim. He's a playwright for Chris's-sake. The theatre is where he got is start writing if I remember correctly. The theatre has been a bastion of homosexuality since time immemorial. If he really had the aversion to homosexuals that you seem to be implying, I find it hard to believe he'd have pursued a career that would have put him in contact with so many of them over the years.

      I get the impression that your big problems with Card is that you disapprove of the religious belief that homosexuality is a sin while he does not, and you disapprove of his support for the Bush administration. Both of those are perfectly acceptable reasons to disagree with, or disapprove of Card as a person, but neither of them are relevant to the evaluation of the quality of his literary work. They are tangential, and inappropriate within the context of a book review.

      The human brain is a connection making machine. Superstitions started because of the fact that a lot of the time, the connections are correlation and not causation. If you develop a negative opinion of an authors beliefs it's guaranteed that you'll find evidence within their written work that you can use to say their writings are propaganda. That doesn't mean you are necessarily correct. In my Freshman writing class we had to read through children's stories for the underlying themes. The prof. implied that she wanted wild explanations for the themes. Consequently most of the class found themes of bestiality, rape, pedophilia, etc because that's what they were looking for, not because the authors of those children's tails wrote them with the intention of turning the children into perverts.

      --
      Bureaucracy expands to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.-Oscar Wilde
  2. Nope, sorry by dedazo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Much as I enjoyed the Ender series, Scott Card has revealed himself to be a massive douche. I'm not buying or reading his books anymore.

    --
    Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
    1. Re:Nope, sorry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      good call, thats why I don't use ReiserFS, watch any movie with heath ledger and don't use DC power (Edison was a big douche bag).

    2. Re:Nope, sorry by Moridineas · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't really get it... I mean ok, even if you really think he is a mega-douche, why stop reading his books? Does that really do anything positive? Does somebody who has an opinion that you disagree with really offend/startle/upset/whatever you so much that you can't read anything they've written? I personally feel this is a big problem with our society today--somebody's political beliefs are enough to earn them boycotts, scorn, hate, risk their jobs, etc. Of course you as a free individual have every right to do whatever you want to do--including boycotting Orson Scott Card--but I just think our society should take a collective chill pill!

      I can see not BUYING more of his books, though at this point he's got so much money he could never sell another book and be ok, so it's a somewhat futile action, but I guess that matters..

      There are a ton of authors, actors, musicians, etc who I think are moronic halfwits when it comes to politics. I think the same thing about some of my friends and family too! I get past it. Douche though they may be, I couldn't care less what their political opinions are when it comes to listening to their music or reading their books. Why do you have to be in ideological lockstep with an author to enjoy their works?

      Apologies if I'm somehow misinterpreting your post...?

    3. Re:Nope, sorry by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 5, Insightful

      you can enjoy someone's work without condoning their lifestyle... grow up.

      I believe an important part of growing up is taking the bigger picture into account, and deciding who and what we support based on more than just our immediate personal result.

      Just because he thinks different than you doesn't make his books any less enjoyable.

      Personally, for me it does. I never got around to checking out Card's workt though it's often been recommended to me by those who know my tastes, but if one of his books were put in my hand now I'd see the name of a man who has seen fit to loudly classify many of my family and friends as second-class citizens.

      My money and time is best spent elsewhere.

    4. Re:Nope, sorry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I can't fathom giving money to a man that uses his speaking platform to try to say I'm subhuman or that I'm defying God.

    5. Re:Nope, sorry by SydShamino · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why? As a single consumer, I have very little power in the economy. But my one ability is to not patronize those I disagree with. It has very little overall effect, but it is my only effect.

      Orson Scott Card is a homophobe and douche? His life's work is meaningless to me.

      Tom Cruise supports an oppressive regime? I don't need his films.

      Owners of local BBQ place talking about how social safety nets are bullshit and a gun and your own wits are all you need (because nothing bad ever happens to you out of your control) and how in an ideal world they could just shoot all the corrupt *local* politicians that make them charge sales tax and pay for library bonds? I won't eat there again. (And they should learn to keep their political views to themselves while patrons are in their restaurant, unless they wish to only cater to their nutball crowd.)

      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
    6. Re:Nope, sorry by Cornflake917 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't blame him. According the article, Card said some pretty hateful things, and seems to have some ideologies that could really damage America's future. Personally, I still might read the new book, but it might be a purchase that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

      What about all of the music we enjoy? Most musicians do things that many people don't condone.

      While doing drugs and engaging in rampant promiscuity are things I don't really condone, inciting hatred, bigotry, ignorance, and possible violence is on a whole other level. I can't think any musicians that I listen to who provoke such horrible things.

    7. Re:Nope, sorry by dedazo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You are free to do so at your leisure. You will notice I didn't urge anyone to do the same. I was merely voicing my opinion.

      As for "growing up", please go drink some Drano. This guy has a louder voice than most *because* he is wealthy thanks to people who buy his books, and he's using that voice to advocate hatred of people who do not share his values, all snuggled up in a nice Christian delivery blanket for the mainstream to gobble up.

      Perhaps you have no friends or family members who are gay. I do. And I respect them a hell of a lot more than I respect people like Scott Card or you.

      --
      Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
    8. Re:Nope, sorry by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Much as I enjoyed the Ender series, Scott Card has revealed himself to be a massive douche. I'm not buying or reading his books anymore.

      Go to the article you listed and notice that the first highlighted section says "mortal enemy" in it. If you go to the article it links to that was written by Card, this paragraph is not to be found in it. Could it be a case of someone distorting what he said? Hmm...

      Card is not a favorite here because
      1) He's against gay marriage.
      2) He's one of the very few popular writers who admits (gasp!) to being a Christian.
      3) He's not a flaming liberal.

    9. Re:Nope, sorry by MasterOfMagic · · Score: 2, Interesting

      you can enjoy someone's work without condoning their lifestyle

      Ironic given that Orson Scott Card has advocated the violent overthrow of the government due to his bigotry and hatred of gays (outright disapproval of their lifestyle). What makes you think that he deserves anything better from us?

      Besides, he's written many best selling books. He's filthy stinkin' rich because of his opinion and his writings.

      A popular opinion is not an opinion based on the truth. There was a time when the general sentiment of the country was for slavery and after that segregation. We see those times as backward and shameful.

    10. Re:Nope, sorry by linzeal · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The mature thing is decide for yourself if you can stand the knowledge that your purchase of his book facilitates his bigotry. The man wrote brilliant novels, for sure but as he is living today I will never purchase another because I can't stand the idea of him having more money to spend on anti-civil rights measures.

    11. Re:Nope, sorry by jmichaelg · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The article you link to links to Card's essay on homosexual marriage. Reading the original Card essay, I didn't find the quoted statement. I find that a bit odd since the quote is quite lengthy. So it appears either the quote was never there and the article's author is fabricating a story or the quote was redacted. I'm curious what the truth is.

    12. Re:Nope, sorry by PCM2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      My money and time is best spent elsewhere.

      cf. L. Ron Hubbard's science fiction.

      I don't know how much of Orson Scott Card's money goes toward directly supporting his political causes, but we know that it is at least possible for money spent on science fiction books to go toward agendas that we might otherwise oppose completely.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    13. Re:Nope, sorry by Deadplant · · Score: 2, Funny

      "...he thinks different than you..."

      differently.

      pet peeve.
      fucking apple.

    14. Re:Nope, sorry by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 2, Funny

      Don't purchase it. If you must, wait until your local library has a copy. Or find an ebook online! *cough*

    15. Re:Nope, sorry by bigbigbison · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The number of English language books that have been printed is so large that it is impossible for any one person to read them all. I could read all day every day and not read every book. I probably wouldn't even be able to read every book that people think is good.

      There is a finite amount of time until I die. I'm not going to spend hours of my life reading something written by an outspoken bigot. There is something else out there that is just as good if not better written by someone who doesn't have opinions I strongly disagree with.

      We all pick and choose what we will read, watch, listen to based on a number of criteria such as storyline, genre, actors, directors, or any number of other factors. I just add things like known bigot to that list of factors.

      Anything I can do to narrow down the very very long list of books I still want to read then that helps me to spend my time more effectively.

      --
      http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
    16. Re:Nope, sorry by flajann · · Score: 2, Funny

      Hitler, Stalin, and Ghengis Khan thinks differently than you, too!!!

    17. Re:Nope, sorry by ChaosDiscord · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If I refused to read, watch, or listen to books, movies, or music from people who were massive douches, I'd be left with almost nothing.

      There are almost certainly authors, directors, software companies, and the like that are providing significant financial support to causes you hate. But they're not as outspoken about it. Your little boycott isn't a boycott against being a douche, it's a boycott about being outspoken in your douchiness.

    18. Re:Nope, sorry by dedazo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Ah, yes. That quotes the wrong article, which appeared in the Mormon Times, not in the Rhino Times.

      --
      Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
    19. Re:Nope, sorry by dedazo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Note that the original link I included to the Examiner article itself links to one Scott Card article (mirrored in his website) and quotes another one, published in the Mormon Times. The second one contains the attributed quote in the Examiner. I apologize for that, I originally read the Mormon Times one but I for some reason the link I had bookmarked was to the Examiner article.

      --
      Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
    20. Re:Nope, sorry by Ansonmont · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The weird thing is Card wrote one of the gayest, and I mean that in a good way, books in Songmaster, which was basically a story about an old dude and his young, chemically castrated boy-lover. Also, as far as I know, Card is a Mormon, not a straight-mainline Evanagelical Christian. See his book Saints to see how he pretties up some of the weirdness of the Mormon founders (I'm looking at you Joseph Smith!)

      Anyway, Xenocide was almost unreadable, and the Shadow series devolved into moralistic children pretending to be adults. His ability to talk about how teenagers think or feel is remarkably repressed. No urges or desires here, thank you! Bean doesn't even have sex with Petra. Card seems to place celibacy as some sort of purifying state, but has a hard time reconciling that with the need to pro-create.

      Where Card seems to be at his best is when telling the story of a young boy (Ender's Game, Alvin series 1-3, first Shadow book). He doesn't seem to really understand politics as practiced by mature, and slightly less pure, adults.

      Anyway, give Songmaster a read and you might start wondering why Card gets all huffy about gay people, maybe some sublimated feelings there, Mr. Happily Married Man? Still there are worse authors out there.

      Just my 2Cents,
      A

    21. Re:Nope, sorry by dedazo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      to advocate the hatred

      I never said I "hated" him, I said I wasn't going to buy his books. As a consumer, that's the only way for me to say "hey, I think you're full of shit".

      There is nothing hypocritical about it. Hypocritical would be my little economic embargo paired with a loud call to burn his Mormon church down to the ground and prosecute everyone in it for being different to Catholics.

      And you would be surprised at how tolerant gays are, in my experience. They can hardly afford to be hateful when all they want is to be left alone.

      I can see why you checked "Post anonymously" here - I thought no one could be this stupid. You proved me wrong.

      --
      Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
    22. Re:Nope, sorry by SydShamino · · Score: 2, Informative

      Slashdot is populated by libertarians, not liberals, for the most part. They may, in general, dislike Card for 1) and 2), but they are probably a better target for your 3).

      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
    23. Re:Nope, sorry by NeBan · · Score: 2, Informative

      I don't know how much of Orson Scott Card's money goes toward directly supporting his political causes, but we know that it is at least possible for money spent on science fiction books to go toward agendas that we might otherwise oppose completely.

      10% of his income goes to his church which in turn supports his political causes.

    24. Re:Nope, sorry by meringuoid · · Score: 4, Insightful
      He's one of the very few popular writers who admits (gasp!) to being a Christian.

      You may not have noticed this but we're awfully keen on J. R. R. Tolkien around here.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    25. Re:Nope, sorry by Moridineas · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Owners of local BBQ place talking about how social safety nets are bullshit and a gun and your own wits are all you need (because nothing bad ever happens to you out of your control) and how in an ideal world they could just shoot all the corrupt *local* politicians that make them charge sales tax and pay for library bonds? I won't eat there again. (And they should learn to keep their political views to themselves while patrons are in their restaurant, unless they wish to only cater to their nutball crowd.)

      Your g*ddamned right, how dare they have an opinion? How dare they express themselves? They should learn to be more like you and your enlightened crowd. I can't wait till we are all in ideological lockstep...differing opinions really suck and are offensive. Must have been a tough visit to that restaurant.

      Oh yeah, ban all bumperstickers and yard signs--they show differences in opinion which should not be allowed.

    26. Re:Nope, sorry by jjohnson · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, it's not. McCarthyism is the government suppressing dissenting views by using investigation as punishment. Punishing someone for their views by not engaging them or buying their products is called "making choices".

      --
      Anyone who loves or hates any language, platform, or manufacturer, doesn't know what they're talking about.
    27. Re:Nope, sorry by santiagoanders · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Where in the quote does he say he would use physical means?

      --
      "There can be little doubt that union activities lead to continuous and progressive inflation." F. A. Hayek
  3. How we respond to technology by DrWho520 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Card's primary purpose is to analyze and consider the human condition as opposed to exploring technological possibilities or theories. Almost everything that is highly advanced is the result of alien technology and is never explained or understood. Much of it functions on an almost mystical or magical level.

    I always thought this was the point. In science fiction, the high technology is a plot device and how our interaction with said device describes aspects of human behavior is the story. I do not need to know how a technological fountain of youth works. I just need to know it makes people young again and requires something of a high cost personal cost, say the ability to feel love. How society treats the creator of this device, whether people who refuse to use it are ostracized by society, do people who use the machine experience regret? The dilithium crystal configuration of the device is irrelevant compared to those aspects of the story.

    Just my two cents.

    --
    The cancel button is your friend. Do not hesitate to use it.
  4. Re:What do I read first? by MozeeToby · · Score: 2, Informative

    I would recommend reading all of the Ender stories first, then going back and reading the Bean stories second. While the two series are remarkably consistent; the Bean stories will change the way you think about the Ender stories. You realize that the monolithic messiah figures of the Ender stories are nothing of the sort, that their destiny is intertwined with that of all the other characters, major and minor.

    On the other hand, Card has recently pressented himself as a bigotted asshat in regards to homosexual rights (I'm sure there will be other posts in this article that will link to the relevant information). So if you really want my advice; don't lend him more of a voice by purchasing his books. It's a hard decision, for myself included. I have been a huge fan of the series since I read Ender's game in middle school, but I will not be purchasing any more books of the series; it just doesn't feel right to support someone whose views clash so violently with my own.

  5. Re:What do I read first? by pavon · · Score: 2, Informative

    It doesn't really jump around, and the published order is a good as any other. There are two story lines - the Ender Series which follow Ender he goes out into space, and the Bean Series that describe what happens meanwhile back on Earth. The stories in each series should definitely be read in order, but the two series really don't depend on each other or feedback into each other in any important way, so which of the two you read first (or in parallel) is up to you.

    As far as quality goes, I'd recommend reading Speaker for the Dead first as I think it's the best book of both the series. I'd then read Xenocide next, just because it brings better closure to some important plot item in SftD, and is a decent story itself. Children of the Mind can be read last or skipped altogether without harm :P

  6. Those are usually pretty light. by khasim · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The problem is that as you get further and further away from current science you end up more and more in the realm of "magic".

    And if the writer is resorting to that, then the story is probably going to be pretty light and dependent upon plot contrivances to get the writer out of any corner he ends up writing himself into.

    In the fountain of youth example, it could matter. How available is the process? Is it possible to restrict who gets it? What about pricing? Would there be wars over it with eternal youth offered as the plunder? Or is the secret something anyone can cook up in their kitchen using dandelions and shower scum?

    Light stories are good for obvious moral statements (think "Twilight Zone"). But they tend to fall apart on anything longer.

    The more basic the change is (eternal youth) the more ramifications it will have on society. And the less likely the writer will have addressed them. Or even thought of them.

  7. don't remember anything of the sort by callmetheraven · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Ender's game was never good.

    Amen, brother. One of the lamest books of all time. When it won the Hugo and Nebula I realized that those awards no longer meant anything.

    --
    You can have my SIG when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.
    1. Re:don't remember anything of the sort by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Right, because the validity of those awards is entirely dependent on whether they're awarded to books that catered to your specific tastes. Or you're a moron. One of the two.

    2. Re:don't remember anything of the sort by callmetheraven · · Score: 5, Funny

      Orson? Is that you? Knock off the AC posting shit and take your flogging like a man.

      --
      You can have my SIG when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.
    3. Re:don't remember anything of the sort by OldeTimeGeek · · Score: 3, Informative

      When it won the Hugo and Nebula I realized that those awards no longer meant anything.

      How long did it take you to come to this realization? The Hugos are voted on by fans - they've always been a popularity contest. And just because the Nebs are voted on by SFWA rather than fans, you think that the result is any "purer" than the Hugos are? SF writers are people, too.

    4. Re:don't remember anything of the sort by satoshi1 · · Score: 3, Funny

      That means we need to develop robots that vote on which books are good or not. Though I'm sure that if there were a SF book dealing with robots rights or whatever, even the robots would be biased... :/

    5. Re:don't remember anything of the sort by dubl-u · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, you not liking a book a bunch of other people like is clear proof that there's something wrong with all those other people. There is no other possible explanation.

  8. Spoiler by 0xABADC0DA · · Score: 5, Funny

    Ender proves himself by posthumously baptizing all the souls of his victims, thereby justifying all the killing and giving the story a feel-good Hollywood ending.

  9. Truth is he wrote it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Not in the article in 'Civilization Watch', but in his blog for the Mormon Times.

    Link is http://mormontimes.com/mormon_voices/orson_scott_card/?id=3237

    Personally, bigotry like this isn't enough, in itself, for me to reject a writer. But, it would certainly color my view of what he writes - any lessons or morals expounded in the book would have to be put to extra scrutiny in light of the moral defect of the writer (to put it plainly).

  10. *sigh* you're worse than homophobes by moderatorrater · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why?

    Ask the writer of the article that question, since I was referencing his opinion.

    Orson Scott Card is a homophobe and douche? His life's work is meaningless to me.

    Because he has opinions you don't like, his work's meaningless? That doesn't sound overly harsh/condemning to you? Card has many openly homosexual characters in his books, and I can't think of a single one that's a villain.

    You, on the other hand, can't stand that he thinks homosexuality is wrong and speaks out about it, therefore anything he does is tainted. Congratulations, sir, you've successfully demonized people on the other side of the argument and made intelligent, rational discourse nearly impossible.

    1. Re:*sigh* you're worse than homophobes by moderatorrater · · Score: 2, Informative

      When an author states that all gay relationships begin with an act of rape, then I'm going to seriously doubt that anything that author has to say has any value.

      From the link:

      The dark secret of homosexual society -- the one that dares not speak its name -- is how many homosexuals first entered into that world through a disturbing seduction or rape or molestation or abuse, and how many of them yearn to get out of the homosexual community and live normally.

      That's the only time the word "rape" appears in the article and it certainly doesn't claim that all relationships begin with rape, just that many do. I can't say whether or not Card's statement is true (it's certainly distasteful either way), but your clearly overstating his position.

    2. Re:*sigh* you're worse than homophobes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      While intolerance is Bad, meta-intolerance is Just Fine. And it's a good disguise for regular intolerance! See, if there's a group you don't like, you find some stereotypical view they hold that you can label as intolerant. Then hate away! Don't feel bad, they're intolerant, it's allowed.

  11. Now I know why an "Ender's" film will never be by wisebabo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    no one in Hollywood would risk offending the "gay" mafia nor would they dare go up against the inevitable boycotts and protests.

    And I agree!

    Would you buy a painting, no matter how great, from Hitler? (He was an artist when he was quite young I understand). Knowing his views, I certainly wouldn't and I'm neither gay nor Jewish!

    This isn't a case of being P.C., it is a case of just being C.

  12. History Repeats Itself? by flajann · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I wonder if similar things were written back in the days of miscegenation?

  13. Re:flamebait by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 2, Insightful

    eligion a fantasy (which may be true, but as many people forget, may not be true either, so there's not even a basis in fact for this claim)

    And bigfoot might not live under my bed--but he also just might, as well! There's no basis of fact for either of these claims, right?

  14. Such distortions by mlund · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Honestly, I read his essay and his blog. He makes a very basic pro-marriage case and the only harsh words he has for anyone are reserved for the government:

    'What these dictator-judges do not seem to understand is that their authority extends only as far as people choose to obey them.

    How long before married people answer the dictators thus: Regardless of law, marriage has only one definition, and any government that attempts to change it is my mortal enemy. I will act to destroy that government and bring it down, so it can be replaced with a government that will respect and support marriage, and help me raise my children in a society where they will expect to marry in their turn.'

    He says quite clearly, 'Seen in this context, we are fools if we think "gay marriage" is the first or even the worst threat to marriage.

    We heterosexuals have put marriage in such a state that it's a wonder homosexuals would even aspire to call their unions by that name.'

    He's quite clearly against adultery, "no-fault" divorce, child abandonment, and cavalier attitudes towards the welfare of children as it relates to marriage. You'd find the same moral reasoning on marriage form anyone in communion with the Vatican, while you'd find the same political reasoning on government abuses by replacing "marriage" with "net neutrality" or "BitTorrent" on a random message board. He says you ought to raise your kids, they deserve a mom and a dad who believe in their marriage, and the government can take a long walk off a short pier if it wants to force people's kids to go to school and indoctrinate them into a definition of "marriage" that he sees as positively Orwellian doublespeak.

    That's not a "hateful," "extreme," or "wingnut" position, unless we've truly reached the cusp of newspeak.

  15. Boycotting Card by DesScorp · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "I believe an important part of growing up is taking the bigger picture into account, and deciding who and what we support based on more than just our immediate personal result."

    You realize, of course, that you're basically making the same argument that the social conservatives you so loathe are making... that there can be no co-existence with the other side, and the only answer is to boycott and blacklist their work.

    --
    Life is hard, and the world is cruel
  16. Re:Gay 'marriage'... by Chordonblue · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "You and I are here because our parents had sex, not because they were married, as many children born out of wedlock are every day. How does gay marriage threaten continued heterosexual reproduction?"

    It doesn't, never suggested it did. But it does weaken the definitions of normalcy and family at a time they need to be strengthened. Sorry, but it's true, homosexuals are in the minority. Humanity may breed homosexuals, but it certainly does not encourage the creation of them in the same way a healthy virus will be sure not to overkill it's victims.

    For instance, I have a young son. The LAST thing I would wish for him is to be homosexual. Not for the reason you probably think (because I will love him no matter WHAT he becomes), but because it's a hard life, and not fun being on the outer edge of society. No amount of can-banging and church gankings are going to change the basic facts of family, procreation, and marriage.

    "Not seeing how gay marriage poses any threat to the continuation of the species...."

    Again, you are missing the point, probably purposely. The point isn't necessarily procreation, but it's the legal and societal recognition of that unique distinction that men and women have.

    Society defines what is 'normal' and clearly, most members of our society have decided that gay 'marriage' is NOT normal. Defining 'gay marriage' the way you want IS unique, but it is NOT progressive in any sense other than providing rights for partners, and I was already pretty clear on where I stand on that (civil unions).

    And just why isn't that enough? Why must homosexuals force themselves and their lifestyle on the rest of us trying to raise families without the very definition of that being called into constant question? Today it's the gays, who knows what tomorrow will bring? There will be NO defense if the initial definition is weakened to the point of meaninglessness.

    This isn't about some sort of civil right, this is about forcing an agenda on people who DO NOT WANT.

    I know that goes against your particular 'religion', but that's the way it is.

    "If you don't have a problem with gay couples having access to a legal arrangement that's functionally identical to marriage, then why do you have a problem with using the word "marriage" to describe it?"

    Why must you take yet another word, if not institution, and claim it as your own? We let 'gay' go, why should we redefine 'marriage' as well? It is what it is, and what it is not is two people of the same sex coming together.

    "What should those gay people have done in California? Not gotten married because they might be involuntarily divorced by referendum later on?"

    Oh please, I weep not for homosexuals in California - ESPECIALLY in California. I'm sure they can handle it just fine. My guess is they have more rights than heteros do there.

    I notice you failed to comment on the rantings, can-bangings, and church crashings. How is this helping 'the cause'?

    By the way, I very much respect that you haven't turned this discussion into a joke. I've rarely been able to have this civil a discussion on this subject with anyone on the other side of it. It usually dissolves into name-calling and accusing the other side of either being right-wing, homophobic gay bashers or lefty communist child stalkers.

    --
    "...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
  17. Re:known troll, mod down. by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm an unabashed snob and severe critic. I think the ridiculous idea that all things are of equal value needs to be rebutted early and often. But I'm not a troll. And I've been on Slashdot posting on a wide variety of issues for a long time.