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American Nerd
Adam Jenkins writes "This book seemed to have potential, particularly since the image of nerds has changed in recent times.
Once objects of derision and schoolyard bullying, nerds are now acknowledged as having a place in society.
The Lord of the Rings became a multi-million dollar movie trilogy, the internet is now used by an incredible number of people,
and computer games are no longer seen as being 'just for kids.' Around the years of the dot-com boom, successful
nerds were driving Ferraris and going to cool parties. So it's not so surprising
that the definition of a nerd has changed over time, nor that a society which has generally become better at accepting
people who are different, has accepted nerds." Read below for the rest of Adam's review.
American Nerd: The Story of My People
author
Benjamin Nugent
pages
224
publisher
Scribner
rating
9/10
reviewer
Adam Jenkins
ISBN
978-0-743-28801-9
summary
A history and entertaining discussion of the American Nerd.
As is clear from the title, American Nerd sets out to concentrate on the American nerd, and to define what a nerd is.
As with a lot of social labels, it's not so easily defined. Nugent defines two categories of nerd; those who are intellectual and socially
awkward in a machine-like way, and also people who are simply socially excluded. We learn that the word 'nerd' first started being used in
America around the 1960s, but as well as the more recent 'geek', there have also been words like 'boffin' and 'greasy grind' which are similar in meaning.
The book is divided into three sections, with the history of the nerd, a more detailed section called "Among the Nerds",
and a shorter section "My Credentials". The latter section expands on the glimpses into Nugent's life through the rest of the book,
like the case study in the second part about Nugent's friend from the Ghetto of Amherst and includes another case study,
about another of his childhood friends.
The author spent some his school years being picked on as a nerd and at the start he discloses that consequently his journalistic objectivity is compromised. Later in the book, he tells us that he stopped being a nerd in his teens. As part of this disclaimer, Nugent states that he empathizes with nerds and anti-nerds alike, and really, who better to do that than an ex-nerd? He seems to have done some good research for the book, including attending the Third Annual Anime Los Angeles Convention, SCA events like Estrella War in Arizona, and talking with Rosie Shuster and Anne Beatts, who wrote the first nerd sketch for Saturday Night Live.
The publishers claim this is the first comprehensive examination of nerds, and it's certainly a fine study of the history to date. No doubt there are good related academic papers in the fields of psychology and sociology, and the books of Professor Sherry Turkle (mentioned in this book) sound interesting, but American Nerd is not only more accessible, but it is specifically about nerds. I've read a couple of books which have touched upon nerd culture, but they have mostly concentrated on other topics; usually the stories of early Silicon Valley pioneers and their companies. Nugent's book covers not only the more usual topics like how nerds are treated at school and what a nerd is, but also science fiction fan clubs and conventions, computer gamers, "fake nerds", Japanese pop culture and parallels between race discrimination and nerds. I was a little surprised that some nerd subcultures weren't included, like those around computer bulletin board systems, or tabletop gaming and live action roleplaying. There were lots of analogies and examples from not only movies like Blade Runner, Rain Man and The Nutty Professor, but also classic literature, like Pride and Prejudice, and Frankenstein. Of more current works, there's mention of Beauty and the Geek and The Big Bang Theory, and some interesting information about the production of Freaks and Geeks.
I'm not sure whether the book would appeal only to nerds or ex-nerds. I think the subject material is probably broad enough that it would have a greater appeal. Parts of the book are quite funny like the story about a Super Smash Bros. Melee competition at a Major League Gaming tournament, and the examples of strange vocabulary adopted by gamers. There are also stories about Ben and his interactions with his friend's crazy Mormon Mum. Toward the end of the book, he described getting drunk with popular kids at age 13 in Petrozavodsk, Russia and deciding he didn't want to be a nerd anymore. There was a lot that I learned from this book, not just the history of nerds, but also something of modern subcultures like yaoi, otaku and SCA, as well as some American specific things like RPIs Bachelor journal and high school debating. Though there's some parallels drawn in this book between the UK and the US in the coverage of "muscular Christianity" around the late 19th century, I am sure that currently nerds in the UK are quite different to those in the US, and I did wonder generally just how nerds in other countries are similar and different to the American variety.
This is an intelligent and thought-provoking book, which also manages to be entertaining. Whether you're a nerd or not, you will find parts of the book that remind you of some of your own experiences and make you appreciate how much richer our society is for having nerds!
You can purchase American Nerd: The Story of My People from amazon.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.
The author spent some his school years being picked on as a nerd and at the start he discloses that consequently his journalistic objectivity is compromised. Later in the book, he tells us that he stopped being a nerd in his teens. As part of this disclaimer, Nugent states that he empathizes with nerds and anti-nerds alike, and really, who better to do that than an ex-nerd? He seems to have done some good research for the book, including attending the Third Annual Anime Los Angeles Convention, SCA events like Estrella War in Arizona, and talking with Rosie Shuster and Anne Beatts, who wrote the first nerd sketch for Saturday Night Live.
The publishers claim this is the first comprehensive examination of nerds, and it's certainly a fine study of the history to date. No doubt there are good related academic papers in the fields of psychology and sociology, and the books of Professor Sherry Turkle (mentioned in this book) sound interesting, but American Nerd is not only more accessible, but it is specifically about nerds. I've read a couple of books which have touched upon nerd culture, but they have mostly concentrated on other topics; usually the stories of early Silicon Valley pioneers and their companies. Nugent's book covers not only the more usual topics like how nerds are treated at school and what a nerd is, but also science fiction fan clubs and conventions, computer gamers, "fake nerds", Japanese pop culture and parallels between race discrimination and nerds. I was a little surprised that some nerd subcultures weren't included, like those around computer bulletin board systems, or tabletop gaming and live action roleplaying. There were lots of analogies and examples from not only movies like Blade Runner, Rain Man and The Nutty Professor, but also classic literature, like Pride and Prejudice, and Frankenstein. Of more current works, there's mention of Beauty and the Geek and The Big Bang Theory, and some interesting information about the production of Freaks and Geeks.
I'm not sure whether the book would appeal only to nerds or ex-nerds. I think the subject material is probably broad enough that it would have a greater appeal. Parts of the book are quite funny like the story about a Super Smash Bros. Melee competition at a Major League Gaming tournament, and the examples of strange vocabulary adopted by gamers. There are also stories about Ben and his interactions with his friend's crazy Mormon Mum. Toward the end of the book, he described getting drunk with popular kids at age 13 in Petrozavodsk, Russia and deciding he didn't want to be a nerd anymore. There was a lot that I learned from this book, not just the history of nerds, but also something of modern subcultures like yaoi, otaku and SCA, as well as some American specific things like RPIs Bachelor journal and high school debating. Though there's some parallels drawn in this book between the UK and the US in the coverage of "muscular Christianity" around the late 19th century, I am sure that currently nerds in the UK are quite different to those in the US, and I did wonder generally just how nerds in other countries are similar and different to the American variety.
This is an intelligent and thought-provoking book, which also manages to be entertaining. Whether you're a nerd or not, you will find parts of the book that remind you of some of your own experiences and make you appreciate how much richer our society is for having nerds!
You can purchase American Nerd: The Story of My People from amazon.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
All the cool American nerds will be outsourced to India.
Who here goes to parties and drives Ferraris?
Around the years of the dot-com boom, successful nerds were driving Ferraris and going to cool parties.
Damn, I spent all this time playing online MUDs. Why nobody invited me?
Any life is made up of a single moment, the moment in which a man finds out, once and for all, who he is.
NEEEEEERDS!
It's curious that nerds, who are generally very precise in matters of technology, are such painfully sloppy writers.
Like, say, this review.
I don't remember the username, but someone on here had an excellent signature for this: "Slashdot, where people know the difference between grep, zgrep, and ngrep, but not there, their, and they're."
--saint
Sounds good, I think I'll pick it up at lunch
As objects of derision and schoolyard bullying.
Appreciation of Classic Fantasy != Nerd. There is the subculture who speak elvish and whatnot, but it's difficult to make the case that this makes them "nerds" rather than being classified as "geek" (American nomenclature), "otaku" (Japanese nomenclature), or simply obsessive fanatics.
That might be considered nerdy if we were still living in the 90's. However, there is very little about today's computers that screams "nerd". Nerds are partly responsible for its success, but otherwise nerds are still in areas where we're a bit obsessive about the intellectual pursuits. (e.g. CompSci) At least now we tend to make a lot of money off of it. ;-)
Oh come on. All the cool kids had computer games in the 80s. That was far from the mark of a nerd. It was far more nerdy to brag about how you programmed your computer or calculator to compute Pi to the 100th decimal place. And in any case, computer gaming is on the decline in favor of more sophisticated game consoles.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Had probably the best definition of both a nerd and a geek.
"A Nerd is someone who is obsessed with computers and technology. A Geek is someone who is obsessed with computers and technology... and LIKES IT THAT WAY."
I'm a geek. ;)
Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
nerds ftw
Nerds will be nerds and they don't care about their image, the outside world, or those girl thingies everyone is always talking about.
That would be a "goth".
Of course nerds care about these things. The stereotype of the average nerd is socially awkward and generally unappealing visually. Just because they tend to fail at scoring the chicks doesn't mean they don't want one. Just because they can't dress themselves doesn't mean they don't wish they could.
"When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
Millions of people use Web 2.0 based sites, like MySpace. Usually, they know nothing about computers, which is why they rely on poorly designed CSS stylesheets and automatic site generators that do nothing but lag the Web browser.
Most people play console games, not PC games. Console gaming, thanks to Microsoft and Nintendo, has gone mainstream. I only know a few people who play PC games and have decent gaming PCs. The rest have Xbox 360s and think "PC gaming SUCKS!"
If I was at someone's house and saw a book entitled, 'American Nerd' on the shelf, it speaks to that person's self-identification regardless of the content. It's advertising a label, and now that there's a book parading that identity, all the American Nerds can rally around and feel validated while wearing their powergloves. Anyway, wouldn't a nerd download the e-book version?
Academics seem to want to go against common usage and define "nerd" as someone truly interested in knowledge, and "geek" as someone without social skills. This is total BS. The term "computer geek" implies intelligence, and "Revenge of the Nerds" defined nerd as people without social skills.
Parent may be a nerd, and I hope he finds a way to start dating girls, but if he's posting semi-intelligent comments on slaskdot, he's also a huge geek, academics be damned. He should be proud to be a geek, and should work on those social skills.
Beer is proof that God loves us, and wants us to be happy.
And they don't read TFA or TFB.
What I find remarkably is the lack of a clear definition of *nerd*. I mean those who are intellectual and socially awkward in a machine-like way, and also people who are simply socially excluded as mentioned in the article doesn't do the trick for me. But the more I am thinking about it, the more I find it difficult to define 'nerd'. So what is a good definition of nerd? Any thoughts?
At school I was one of the more popular kids because of my high intellect. Other kids loved that I would point out their mistakes to them.
And they always let me join in their games - especially the game of 'Wedgie' which I always won.
Correct. Back in high school I would have loved to "dress cool" but never knew how to do it, so I withdrew into computers. And of course I never had success with women, because they wanted the guys who could "dress cool". It wasn't until I moved away from school and into sales (which required formal dress) that I finally got some dates.
It all seems to come back to the clothes. If you don't wear what's cool or stylish, you're going to be shunned.
FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
I read this book. I expected it to be lighter and written for entertainment. It is, however, an actual attempt to classify people that belong to a poorly understood subculture.
I found the majority of it particularly dry.
Ok, I feel like I'm arguing over "trekker" vs. "trekkie" here but nerd and geek both started out as pejoratives indicating the socially awkward who stood outside of the norm. Geek has softened over time to indicate someone who may stick out of the norm but whose intelligence and skills help compensate for perceived social shortcomings. Nerd still has a negative connotation.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
no on 15!
the united states is a nation of laws; badly written and randomly enforced -- frank zappa
That's alright, Louis Skolnick got some... There is hope to all nerds everywhere.
Stupidity only gets you so far, then you've gotta try
In the 1970s, Robert Plant sang about smoking up with hobbits, and it was cool.
What about the dorks!?! When are they going to get their rightful place in society?
...Just because they tend to fail at scoring the chicks doesn't mean they don't want one....
True. And if for some reason you still have a hard time believing that, just ask to see his pr0n collection.
If you do ask, you might want to take two steps back while he whips out his huge....NAS array.
One of the meanings of Nerd, the technogeek, has fallen by the wayside. It used to be that staying inside playing Atari 2600 while all the normal kids where outside playing tag made you a nerd.
Nowadays *all* the kids stay inside and play video games all day.
The Nerd label continues to stick to smart kids (a.k.a. kids who try to get good grades).
Stoopid is kool and the Culture of Dum rules.
Maybe that's why American Morons are the most underachieving and get the most expensive public education in the world.
society's becoming better at accepting? That's a big leap to make. We still have a long way to go. Anyone who says differently is probably still in college.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
I think "The Big Bang Theory" provides a good cross sampling of the stero-types and can be used to illustrate the different definitions.
I would classify Sheldon as a Geek and Leonard as a Nerd. Both are smart, but Sheldon has no cares whether people accept him socially whereas Leonard at least makes an attempt.
Layne
Not nerds.
Wedgie flashbacks anyone?
the word "geek" had a long (and disgusting history) way before it was applied to persons with an affinity to computers.
If the author doesn't get that right... I have some reservations about the rest of the work.
But what do I know - I'm an AC!
seems to me, it is someone who is simply technically inclined
in previous eras, this might have meant mechanically inclined, or a good craftsman. in today's world, it implies electronic inclination
but today, and in all eras past, the technically inclined have always done well in society. simply because their skills are prized and rewarded
but then there is the aspect of nerd culture, which, because of perhaps different mental processes of the technically inclined, has existed in a different sphere. its works of art has been more removed from reality (scifi, fantasy, etc.). and its social skillset is usually more stilted
but insofar as nerd culture is more accepted, i doubt it was or ever will be, simply because you are either of a certain mental taint, or not
much as being emo is probably undergirded by a certain mental aspect. that, like being a nerd, is not unique to our time. study the works and era and social circle of keats, shelley, byron, and you find a subculture that is pretty much the same as modern emo interests in the macabre and melodrama. (although would mary shelley's frankenstein be a work of nerd culture or emo culture or some protean mix of the two?)
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
>> Nerds will be nerds and they don't care about their image, the outside world, or those girl thingies everyone is always talking about.
> That would be a "goth".
Right, because "goth" kids don't care about what they look like, and the opposite sex is clearly, obviously not part of goth culture.
Unless you are referring to the goths that appeared after 1990 (post NIN), when the goth image fell to commiditization and every sorority girl was singing "Closer", every other 5th grader had a mohawk or blue hair, and Target started selling spikey wrist bands, bondage-lite collars, and combat boots.
I'm going to go to listen to some Nick Cave and pretend it is still 1983.
https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
I was a little surprised that some nerd subcultures weren't included, like those around computer bulletin board systems, or tabletop gaming and live action roleplaying.
The author admits his own
objectivity is compromised
so this should not be surprising. I would probably buy this book if it was convenient/priced right but not search it out.
Our personal feelings always effect how we perceive words. Whenever I watch Chuck I get a twinge of anxiety when I see the words "Nerd Herd" across the car he drives. That was what the other kids would chant at my friends and I in high school. I get over it quickly but it's still there after all these years.
I also don't think you ever really grow out of being a nerd.
"The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget." -Thomas Szasz
Will you get nerds and geeks trying to not only define themselves as nerds and geeks but also argue about what it means to be a nerd or geek and which one is more legitimate.
I am a nerd, I know I am. But I'm not ashamed of it because my nerdom allows me make a living doing things that are far from mundane. I don't dread going to work everyday, just dealing with the commute full of those non-nerds that make up rest of the workforce that I have to support in one way or another in my IT endeavors. Just because I'm a nerd doesn't mean I have to fit some pre-described mold. I don't have to be a skinny, socially maladjusted, pasty white kid. I can be physically fit, well groomed and active outdoors with friends that don't cower in the dark fearful of the world either.
There are nerds and geeks everywhere. I have friends who are nurses and paramedics and they live and breathe their medical fields constantly. They know everything about it, inside and out. I can ask them about anything medical and they have some insight for me. But ask them to build a push-pull amplifier using pentode vacuum tubes and adjustable gain control and they wouldn't have clue one. They also wouldn't know anything about the aforementioned TCP/IP stack. Then again, I have friends that are auto mechanics and they can talk at length about the mechanical workings of car but when you start discussing the machine code and C programs used to program and operate the fuel injection computer and they get out of their element quick.
Everybody has a little nerd in them. Just like everybody has a little redneck in them. Just because nerd and geek are seen as derogatory terms in most cases doesn't mean that people who have the nerd or geek mentality about their chosen topic means that they should strive to fit some stereotype. Breaking out of the stereotype invalidates the stereotype and eventually removes that stereotype from common knowledge.
Don't be proud to call yourself a geek or nerd and relish in the uniqueness of the social ineptitude just to say you are different and find your pride there. Be proud to be a geek or nerd because you are different. You are a computer expert or an electronics expert. Be proud that you have skills and abilities that most of the non-nerds don't have. View yourself as an asset to society, as a professional in your profession and present yourself that way. Then people have no choice but to see you as a professional systems admin or engineer rather than one of those "IT Geeks" or an "Engineering nerd".
...I only know a few people who play PC games and have decent gaming PCs. The rest have Xbox 360s and think "PC gaming SUCKS!"
Alright, that's it. Who want some?!? Bring it on. I'll kick your ass in Doom II. Mice and wireless controllers are for wussies. So are LANs.
We're going old school. Just two PCs, a couple of keyboards, pair of CRT VGAs, and a serial crossover cable. You DO know what a serial port is, don't you?!? Bring it biyaatch.
(Sorry, didn't mean to get dragged off into that tangent, but this is a post about nerds...)
"I am sure that currently nerds in the UK are quite different to those in the US."
In what way?
Are we really that much farther away now from Nerd having a negative stigma than we were back in '99 during http://slashdot.org/articles/99/04/25/1438249.shtml one of the more famous/important discussions on /.?
of people when I say, "Yeah, I program." Since I'm a 5'4 200lb bodybuilder. I also totally roid rage all over my seg faults and sudo.
I'm not sure I trust the opinions or objectivity of anyone who is a "reformed nerd". That probably will keep me from buying the book.
To reform you have to recognize a problem. To recognize a problem you have to believe that something is wrong. Therein lies my concern.
There isn't a huge academic literature specifically on nerds, but it does exist. A quick scan of SocIndex gives me the following:
# 1. Nerd, Thug, or Player? Group Membership and Adolescent Identity. By: Andriot, Angie. Conference Papers -- American Sociological Association, 2007 Annual Meeting, p1, 27p, 1 chart
# 2. Bookworms versus nerds: Exposure to fiction versus non-fiction, divergent associations with social ability, and the simulation of fictional social worlds By: Mar, Raymond A.; Oatley, Keith; Hirsh, Jacob; dela Paz, Jennifer; Peterson, Jordan B.. Journal of Research in Personality, Oct2006, Vol. 40 Issue 5, p694-712, 19p; DOI: 10.1016/j.jrp.2005.08.002
# 3. Black Mexicans, Nerds and Cosmopolitans -- Key Cases for Assimilation Theory. By: Smith, Robert Courtney. Conference Papers -- American Sociological Association, 2006 Annual Meeting, Montreal, p1, 15p;
# 4. Jocks, Teckers, and Nerds: The role of the adolescent peer group in the formation and maintenance of secondary school institutional culture. By: Brady, Patrick. Discourse: Studies in the Cultural Politics of Education, Sep2004, Vol. 25 Issue 3, p351-364, 14p
# 5. Why We Harass Nerds and Freaks: A Formal Theory of Student Culture and Norms By: Bishop, John H.; Bishop, Matthew; Bishop, Michael; Gelbwasser, Lara; Green, Shanna; Peterson, Erica; Rubinsztaj, Anna; Zuckerman, Andrew. Journal of School Health, Sep2004, Vol. 74 Issue 7, p235-251, 17p, 2 Charts, 5 Diagrams, 1 Graph
# 6. Battling the Image of 'a Nerd's Profession' By: Field, Kelly. Chronicle of Higher Education, 7/9/2004, Vol. 50 Issue 44, pA15-A17, 3p, 2 Color Photographs
# 7. Web Use and Net Nerds: A Neofunctionalist Analysis of the Impact of Information Technology in the Home. By: Gershuny, Jonathan. Social Forces, Sep2003, Vol. 82 Issue 1, p141-168, 28p
# 8. 'Populars', 'Nerds', and 'Normals': Peer group categories and adolescent social identity processes By: Tanti, C.. Australian Journal of Psychology, 2003 Supplement, Vol. 55, p64-64, 1p;
# 9. Race, Sex, and Nerds. By: Eglash, Ron. Social Text, Summer2002, Vol. 20 Issue 2, p49, 16p
# 10. Hipsters & Nerds: Black Jazz Artists & Their White Shadows By: Gabbard, Krin; Pomerance, Murray. Ladies and Gentlemen, Boys and Girls: gender in film at the end of the 20th century, 2001
# 11. 'OH NO! I'M A NERD!' By: Kendall, Lori. Gender & Society, Apr2000, Vol. 14 Issue 2, p256-274, 19p
# 12. Nerd theology By: Kelly, K.. Technology in Society, Nov99, Vol. 21 Issue 4, p387, 6p
# 13. Nerd Nation: Images of Nerds in US Popular Culture By: Kendall, Lori. International Journal of Cultural Studies, Aug99, Vol. 2 Issue 2, p260, 24p
# 14. Jocks, Nerds, Babes and Thugs: A Research Note on Regional Differences in Adolescent Gender Norms By: Suitor, J. Jill; Carter, Rebecca S.. Gender Issues, Summer99, Vol. 17 Issue 3, p87, 15p, 2 Charts
# 15. "The Nerd Within": Mass Media and the Negotiation of Identity Among Computer-Using Men. By: Kendall, Lori. Journal of Men's Studies, Spring99, Vol. 7 Issue 3, p353-369, 17p
# 16. Nerd's corner. By: Hugo, Anne. Youth Studies Australia, Mar1998, Vol. 17 Issue 1, p49, 1/5p
# 17. Nerd's corner. By: Hugo, Anne. Youth Studies Australia, Jun97, Vol. 16 Issue 2, p51, 1/4p
# 18. Nerds, normal people, and homeboys: Accommodation and resistance among Chinese American students By: Goto, Stanford T.. Anthropology & Education Quarterly, Mar1997, Vol. 28 Issue 1, p70, 15p, 2 Charts
"YES, WE CAN!"
Wikipedia has good article on the evolution of the term "geek." Often important issues are decided by the terms used by both sides to define the issue. For example, "pro-life" is used rather than "anti-abortion." Americans have a huge problem: we aren't learning enough science, math, and technology skills. This is especially true for our daughters. In other countries, like China and India, such skills are encouraged and respected.
The battle for the definition of the term "geek" is the same battle. If we want to put America back on track, we need to respect intelligence again, and push all our children to excel in learning science, math, and technology. Like it or not, "geek" is the label for all children who excel in these areas. If we can win the battle over the connotations of being a geek, it will be much easier to properly educate our kids.
Beer is proof that God loves us, and wants us to be happy.
Once I discovered FPS games using mouselook, I never wanted to play an FPS on anything but a PC.
Other genres (like driving games) are usually better on consoles though.
Shameless plug alert: Game server control panel
I was actually pretty popular in high school and college, a very social individual, played a few (varsity) sports, played in a band, was good with the ladies throughout my younger years, and now I'm engaged to a beautiful lady. However, I'm also unhealthily addicted to video games (played many, many games dating back to the DOS era), a large Star Wars fan (I have action figures, books and cards still), had close to a 4.0 in HS, was in the gifted program (and went to academic competitions), got a BS in a computer field, work in the IT industry, own almost every console (as well as a GB, GBA, DS, and lynx), have multiple computers with multiple operating systems, program in several languages, made a few video games, made a few websites, etc. I know pretty much everything a nerd would know - but I don't have the nerd negative stereotypes. What does that make me?
I will bend like a reed in the wind.
Nerds are essential Somali pirates, too. The BBC recently had a story that ex-fishermen and ex-militia are two of the three types of pirates. The third is geeks. "The technical experts, who are the computer geeks and know how to operate the hi-tech equipment needed to operate as a pirate - satellite phones, GPS and military hardware."
Why does one have to be a nerd, jock, or preppy or whatever. What about working hard at academics, art, and sports? I am not saying that you have to be good at it all; just participating in more than just one area. I guess the ancient Greek values of spirit, body, and mind is what I'm alluding to.
No wonder we've turned into this one dimensional society.
That's because clothing is a strong indicator of social status.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is usually crucified.
No longer in plain ascii, now in high resolution jpeg.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
they don't care about their image
That would be a "goth".
That's one of the funniest things I've read today - thank you!
The idea of goths not caring about "those girl thingies" is pretty darned amusing too. They tend to be quite keen on those "girl thingies" who wear fishnet and black eyeliner - y'know, the ones who wouldn't be seen dead with the nerds or the jocks. :)
I seriously doubt things have changed, regardless of what books or technologies reach blockbuster status in the mainstream. Anyone overly interested in what's under the hood of those blockbusters will still be treated differently. And nerds have always had a place in society: as objects of derision and schoolyard bullying.
What do you mean they cut the power? How can they cut the power, man? They're animals!
excuse me if that sounds discriminative, but it is as such.
in other countries there arent such distinctions as 'nerds' etc, or such kind of school bullying culture.
lets take turkey for example. in turkey if you are a nerd and its obvious, your future is guaranteed. you are taken as a good student, and everyone treats you accordingly. leave aside the respect you'll be getting in family circles, in school everyone knows your place, and how your place in future will be. this doesnt put you into the 'in' crowd, - there are 'popular' or 'in' crowds in every culture -, but it wont put you out either. you dont get bullied, harrassed or despised.
and stuff unfolds as they predicted generallly - you score top scores in nation-wide university entrance exams, get into a top university (there are 4 major universities here which send graduates to oxford, m.i.t. and similar), and when you graduate from there, you dont even probably stay in a single country, but rather become a top official in a global corporation.
what i know from a number of other countries is that situation is more or less similar to this, around europe. this makes me think that this 'nerd' issue, nerd bullying etc are exclusively american issues.
Read radical news here
Or you buy a gamepad or even steering wheel for the games. I did that before even game consoles got popular...
The same way do game consoles slowly support more keyboards and mice.
What makes you think they are all geeks? Just because they feel they identify with geeks doesn't make them a geek. Only the real geeks know a geek from a "mommy bought me a 'puter for Christmas" clown.
Unless this book succeeds in helping explain the existence, mindset and motivations of someone like John Draper, and do so in a fashion that helps a person NOT remotely like him to value his existence, then what's the point of the book?
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clothing is a strong indicator of social status
And yet...people with modest incomes can still afford nice clothes if they want them.
And utter assholes who will use and abuse their women can also afford nice clothes.
It seems silly to me that clothing would be so important as a first-contact filter. But then again I am a geek, and a lot of the status quo seems silly to me. Despite my general distaste for expensive clothing, I own some, have worn it, and have gotten dates. My overall experience of women has been that they are too demanding, often bored by the things that interest me (and interested in things that bore me, like nice clothes), and the pleasure they offer is fleeting. I hear that some of them also spread diseases.
The times when I was dating were some of the most stressful in my life. The times when I did the things I enjoy with my friends who also enjoy them were some of the happiest. So, apart from an inclination to raise children (which I don't have), I see little reason to bother with dating at all.
And without obsession over women compromising my goals, I am free to dress however I damn well please.
The stereotypical nerd is good at some sort of intellectual pursuit, but socially awkward.
Over and over I see people slotting themselves into these stereotypes "Oh, I'm a good coder so I must be a social disaster".
It's a cop-out. A crutch. An excuse.
Social skills are skills like any other. There are physical aspects to it, as well as intellectual aspects, but it is no *harder* to learn how to interoperate with other people than it is to program C.
The crucial difference of course is that a coding mistake results in an error message where a social mistake can result in embarassment. But so what? Embarassment is not fatal, we learn through our mistakes, and people love a great ugly-duckling story; what better way to recover from embarassment and awkwardness than becoming the suave ex-nerd?
Pick up a copy of "How to Wind Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie - lame title but solid, solid advice - and go try it out. Talk to people. Make some friends. Treat social interaction like it was a new coding language and learn how to do it - life becomes SO much easier when you do.
DG
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I guess that almost makes me Geek although my social skills are barely scraping the floor of acceptibility.
I personally like the original Geek Code because it recognized there are different "spins" on Geekhood who were yet a part of an amorphous brotherhood. Y'all have me cooked on the high powered technical stuff as my knowledge is very lateral and includes a fairly strong grasp of english.
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We're talking Nerds & Geeks.
If he was socially aware enough to think about the image that book would portray, wouldn't he obfuscate it? (Hide it, put it upside down, visually dilute the title, etc.)
Then again, if he *was* that aware of the need, does that make them him a Geek vs. a Nerd?
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
I'm nearly perfect about contractions, but I mangle singular/plural in "what-if" scenarios.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Unfortunately, the truth is that nerds have not been accepted by society. What society has done is "re-invent" the nerd to fit what it wants, another cliche. The characters portrayed as nerds fit into two catagories; the first is the social misfit who understands technology but cannot perform well in face-to-face communication. These are still considered typical comic relief that may have a moment of granduer but ultimately fall back into their social role, supporting the cool, hip, with-it characters. The second are the normal Hollywood product of youth and good looks who happen to be good in a techincal area, mathmatics, computers, anatomy, etc. These people are socially acceptable and also happen to be highly intelligent. To say that nerd is now cool is to say that conformists are the new rebels. It just doesn't make sense.
Now we see the violence inherent in the system.
In it's most basic sense a nerd is anyone not in your particular social circle. Geek is often used in this sense. You have computer geeks, band geeks, football geeks (see 'jock'), and cheerleader geek. We then apply different words to the same label so we get Goth, Emo, Jock, Headbanger, Gearhead, etc.
It is human nature to break down and organize information into discrete catagories. Short, tall, fat, skinny, etc. It's how humans think. If suprises me that we are still writing books about obvious things.
Closed social circles gravitate to extremes. So while most 'jock' for instance are normal decent people the gravitation to extremes progresses if the social circle is closed. In huge schools it's rare to find groups of jocks operating as bullies. There is too much inflow of new people constantly to allow the social circle to become closed. In smaller communities, the agression within social circles rises quicker. Quick enough to hit flash points before people start graduating.
Regardless of the social group, if it is a closed system, it will gravitate to an extreme. The nerd in the 80's sense (i.e. Revenge of the Nerds) would then be a group of social outcasts in their own closed system. Same with their opponents (in a similar closed social system.) This leads to flashpoints of extreme behavior. The urge to conform within the closed social circle and advance within that circle provides the pressure that moves to the extreme. When a social circle hits a flashpoint that pressure is diffused within the social group. Hopefully that flashpoint is a constructive act rather then destructive. The saying, "It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt" is the perfect example of that pressure release. A reality check comes in and diffuses the gravitation to an extreme. The cycle starts over. With enough "fresh blood" coming in with fresh ideas, etc... that slows that pressure from building (until the pressure is high enough to prevent new people coming into the circle turning the initally open system into a closed one.)
Nerds\Geeks\etc.. are a facinating group to study because they are nearly always in a state where their social network is OPEN. I look forward to picking this one up from the review but would love to see more books looking into other social groups as a whole more often.
I can't count the number of football players I played D&D with in highschool. It was weird, we'd chill killing zombies and in school then make fun of nerds. The next day I was DM'ing the nerds and they'ed make fun of the jocks. When college hit I got them around the table together. 20 years later, what a crew of friends to have.
-=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
If you stopped being a nerd at age 13, you are in no way qualified to comment on what it is like to be a nerd especially since, as any of us can tell you, the vast majority of the crap you will take in your life for being a nerd is in high school.
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For many years now, I've been using Nerd, Jock and Geek almost interchangeable in every day language. I enjoy particularly calling folks "sports nerds" and "math jocks" though I use the "sports nerd" phrase much more often.
Granted the book appears to be about how Nerds have become successful and essentially success is cool so Nerds (or at least successful nerds) are cool. But my point of mixing these phrases is to showcase the narrow focus each has.
Classically Jocks focus on sports to the near exclusion of everything else. Nerds focus on science to the near exclusion of everything else. Neither, to my mind, are worthy of vaulted status becuase both limit their attention to a subset the wider world. Consequently either or both are worthy of the same praise and derision. Hence Sports Nerd.
In the Netherlands everyone who was intelligent used to get massive respect. Then when I got in high-school it suddenly changed. It was there that getting A's and 10's was uncool because you had to learn a lot for it and therefore you were probably not hanging around with other because you probably didn't had the time for it. Than, one yer ago, I read in some gratis newspaper that they give away in busses, that being intelligent was suddenly not cool anymore. Being dumb was totally 2007/2008. First I thought; OK what the hell? And now when you say something that requires a little amount of inteligence you are not showing others respect because you try the be the "Hey look at me I'm smarter than you!"-type...
*Sigh*
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Most people who describe themselves as geeks and nerds are wannabes.
Here are some clues.
Real nerds spend long periods of time pursuing their craft while wannabes show up at parties talking about how they are nerds. Much like wannabe writers and poets show up at parties talking about the books and poems they are going to eventually write while the real writers are holed up too busy writing to show up at parties. If you haven't spent long hard weekends working on your craft (be it programming, engineering, writing, music, etc.) instead of drinking and trying to get laid, you are a wannabe.
Real nerds often take common activities and turn them into nerdish activities. For example a nerd friend of mine watched basketball. But part of the watching was he was developing a program to help develop a betting system. Much like how Stephen Jay Gould enjoyed the stats of baseball. If the person doesn't do things like this, they are a wannabe.
If you call yourself a geek or nerd, you are a wannabe. Only others can do this, only others can make you a social outcast. That after all is what the word 'outcast' means, you have been cast out.
If you care about what people think about you and what badges they put on you, you are a wannabe.
HTH HAND
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
This is always the case. When cars were first introduced it was a big thing to be a 'motorist'. Now 90% of drivers have no idea how their car works. They just run the key and put gas in it.
Likewise, I remember in the 80s when we were listening to "alternative music". Now, all the bands we listened to back then are considered mainstream, when you tune in to an "80s music station" half the songs they play were only on college stations at the time. Punk, synthpop, electronica, etc... are all mainstream genres now.
Popularity makes cool stuff mainstream, it's always been the way.
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There are a lot of TV shows that have come out recently that have very Anti-Typical Heros (as in no strong chin, great looks, football player etc.) that are Nerds. I'm talking about shows like Chuck, Life, The Mentalist, Heros, Ugly Betty. All of these include brainy, if not somewhat eccentric and socially awkward nerds as the central character. It might be true that the image portrayed doesn't always spell out the Nerdier side of Nerdness (real words?) but these are nonetheless, heros rather than the side kick or foil of the main character. Chuck is interesting though in that both the main character and some of his sidekicks are nerds with the hero being portrayed as the nerd who evolved some social skillz while some of his side kicks definitely didn't. Well I was a nerd before it became cool, am one now, and will likely remain one even if our new found acceptance dims.
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Funny how that works out. I've worn plaid for years, even way back in high school when it was totally uncool. Now that it's "in style" with the "cool" people, I'm labeled as a poser by some. I wish it would go back out of style again so I can go back to being "lame."
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Personally I doubt your lack of success was determined by not knowing how to dress. I'd guess it was more to do with self-confidence. Once you'd moved into a field in which you were more successful (in school academical success does not equal social succes, much as some would like it to), you gained confidence and thus people noticed you more.
I may be way off the mark though, for all I know you used to wear bras as ear-muffs throughout high school.
I am the same AC that posted the comment about you not speaking like an adult. I officially feel bad now.
Things like lolcats and "I can has cheeseburger" have made it popular for adults to speak like children. And, they annoy me. So when you said "Why nobody invited me?" it sounded like a phrase spoken in that vein.
I am going to stop posting stupid things on slashdot now.
> When words like "there/their/they're" come along, my brain just says "there".
There goes someone who learned to read at an advanced age, like, say, in school. If you had learned these words from reading and looking them up in the dictionary, you would have acquired the proper pronunciation for each. "There" is pronounced "the-ere", "their" rhymes with "Jane Eyre", and "they're" is sounded out as "they are", but with the middle vowels shortened. Learn to speak, and you'll learn to spell.
> In quick mode, my brain is much more inclined to type "loose" for the sound "lewz",
> because most every other word that has a double-o makes the "ew" sounds.
Here the pronunciation is also different. "Loose" has a softer s sound, like in "lusse", while the s in "lose" sounds more like a z. If we fixed all the spelling in the language into a proper english (as opposed to french or german perversions) form, where letters are used consistently to represent specific sounds, everyone would instantly gain the ability to spell perfectly. The way things are now, we're stuck with illogical letter assignments, many of which are the work of the evil french...
Substitute pretty much any standard term for a sub-set of a society and you're going to get the same result. There's an internal perception and an external one. Internally the term is used as a term of affection (in various forms) while externally it is used as a perjorative. If you truly belong to that subset you won't identify yourself as one except by your actions. Those who wish they did will use the term.
Non-offending examples:
There's racial ones too that are well known but rarely discussed since racial classification is a no-no and wrong. But the same rules apply. Those belonging to the subset use the term without offense while if used by others it is considered an insult.
I was a classic nerd throughout school. When I went back to rural North Carolina for my 20th high school reunion, I wasn't sure to expect, but what I found was that everyone had simply grown up. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Everyone was perfectly nice, we had good conversation, and it was just a big family cookout at the house of one of my classmates. Some of my classmates had started their own businesses, most were married with kids, and were generally doing well and happy. Sure, I make more money than most of them, I've likely seen a lot more of the world than they have, probably generally more educated, but mainly I realized that I no longer had much of anything in common with them - we didn't enjoy the same things, we didn't have the same hobbies, and not much shared experience. But everyone who'd been an asshole in school to me had long gotten over it, and so had I.
*shrug* I guess I'm supposed to feel all superior, but I honestly don't care enough to hang on to a bunch of BS that happened when we were all kids, and neither did they. We have important issues to deal with.
Love, Squeedle
If you're involved in a lengthy debate over the definition of "geek" and "nerd", are you a geek? Or a nerd?
A wise observation, IMO. I hate to think how mean I was to little girls in the neighborhood before I hit puberty. I think high school is a bit like that - a phase you grow out of.
Still, I can't forgive the rednecks from Stone Mountain. I turned out OK, and I can probably thank the rednecks for part of my drive to succeed (to prove them wrong). But my friends didn't have my luck. Most have never overcome the damage done to their self-image at a young age. I think their lives and all of America would be much better off if we were to build up the self esteem of our most talented geeks.
I read a cool article on being tall. In general, each inch of height is worth about $2K/year in extra income for a guy. However, it doesn't matter how tall you are... what matters is how tall you were when you were sixteen. Guys who sprout in their twenties don't benefit.
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Hey, some of us fishnet-and-black-eyeliner-wearing girl thingies *are* the nerds. :)
In general, I agree with your comment...but low female numbers in math, engineering etc are unavoidable in any society where people are free to choose their careers. The reality is that not nearly as many girls as boys are interested in engineering, math and so on. Call me whatever name you like, but the evidence is there in bucketloads.
There is no such thing as an "accent".
Really? That is astonishing news. I'll be sure to alert the English department at my local university that accents don't actually exist. Thanks for clearing that up.
There is speaking proper English, and there is not speaking proper English, and while I do not claim to always do the former (English is my second language, after all)...
As someone who admits English isn't their first language you seem awfully arrogant telling those of us who are native speakers how to pronounce our own language. There is no "proper" English. There are widely accepted grammar and pronunciation rules but virtually none are universal - hence we have accents, dialects, and an evolving language.
For the record the grandparent post is correct. While I haven't been everywhere, I've traveled over most of the US extensively and the words "there", "their" and "they're" are pronounced the same by nearly all native (American) English speakers. Absent a sentence for context you would be hard pressed to tell which they are using.
"Nerds ... don't care about their image"
But nerds all dress nerd-style! Surely it must be planned? I mean they can't all simultaneously dress the same by coincidence can they? Please explain.
Ok, I can't resist throwing my own 2 cents into the "what exactly does 'nerd' or 'geek' mean".
When I was growing up in the eighties, nerd was a pretty specific thing. It referred to someone with a high IQ, who wore glasses (preferably repaired with tape), loved "Star Trek", knew how to use computers, etc. Basically the main 2 guys in "Revenge of the Nerds". See also Dilbert, Urkle, Professor Frink (from the Simpsons) and any character played by Rick Moranis.
Unlike today, these nerds were stereotyped as being severely underweight (90 pound weaklings with bony girl-arms) and generally overdressed, usually wearing button up shirts and slacks when most other kids wore t-shirts and jeans. It was also assumed that any one of them could build a nuclear bomb/cloning machine/intelligent robot and probably had one or more of these in their basement. It was always assumed that they would be mega rich when they grew up, from writing computer games or inventing something or hacking into banks or something brainy like that.
Geek just meant someone who was uncool, especially if they were so out of touch that they thought the uncool things they did would impress their peers. Granted, nerds often did geeky things (showing off how many digits of pi you had memorized, thinking it would impress people) but "geek" was more frequently reserved for the developmentally disabled kids who rode the short bus to school (a.k.a. retarded kids).
At some point around the time of the dot com era, geek seemed to somehow take over the meaning of nerd. But the stereotype also changed to a fat slob in a greasy Spider-Man t-shirt. This new "geek" wore a goatee while the old "nerd" was generally believed to be unable to grow facial hair. This geek was pretty smart and probably knew how to make a web page or such, but was hardly a genius and was expected to still live in his parents' basement. Nerd became Geek, but at the same time Professor Frink turned into The Comic Book Guy.
I always tend to class anyone with a shred of style as a geek rather than a nerd - maybe I read too much into the distinction between the two?
Console gaming, thanks to Sony and Nintendo, has gone mainstream.
There, fixed that for you.
It's called "safety through conformity". Nerds worry a LOT about their image, you can tell by how many ironic t-shirts related to computer programming are out there. if they didn't care at all about what they looked liked, they'd simply wear the cheapest clothes off the for-sale rack from the store located closest to them, even if it turned out to be pink corduroys and a sweater with glittery kittens on it from Taret. But since image is so important, thinkgeek.com profits off the commoditization of image insecurity.
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I got this book from the library and started to read it. I was so excited because I had heard all about it and I really wanted to read it. I love reading books like these because I like to see if the world is being told the correct information about what goes on in the Nerd/Geek brain, who we are, and why we do what we do. So I got the book and started to read it. The first five pages I was tempted to put it down because it started talking about ancient nerds, and then it mentioned something about "Pride and Prejudice". But I figured that the book would get better and so I read on. I started to fall asleep because it was so boring and talked about complete nonsense stuff. I want to know about today's nerds, the computer nerds, not yesterdays book nerds. I skipped about 5 chapters and it was still talking about the same thing, and what is worse is that it actually used (in quotations) parts from other books. So I continued to skip the book and skimmed it here and there looking for something good. Once I realized that the book was of no use, had no point, and was deffinately not soothing my interests I put it on the shelf, picked up another book and read up on the cosmos lol. [That's why I make sure to get more than one book at the library :) ]
-Steve "The Geek" Hencye