Slashdot Mirror


Google Map To Real Piracy

An anonymous reader noted that you can now see a Google Map of piracy. Not the pretend kind, the real kind with boats and stuff. Considering how much time we spend talking about the other kind, I think it's worth paying attention to the real problems out there.

38 of 262 comments (clear)

  1. Time for Qs to come back by AKAImBatman · · Score: 5, Interesting

    From what I've been hearing, it sounds like the biggest problem in defending against the Solmalian surge in piracy is that the pirates know where the US ships are and avoid them. They've taken to attacking farther and farther out from the coast, often impacting new shipping lanes when displaced by US warships.

    Maybe I've been reading too much fiction, but am I the only one thinking: Q Ship?

    1. Lure pirate in with tasty looking merchie.

    2. Wait until pirate is within range and intentions are clear.

    3. Throw the covers off the guns and blast them into next year.

    4. ???

    5. Profit!!!

    (Well, the merchies do anyway.)

    1. Re:Time for Qs to come back by thrillseeker · · Score: 5, Funny

      The pirates are on the run now - the UN has approved sanctions against them - God help them when they read that.

    2. Re:Time for Qs to come back by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Informative

      Throw the covers off the guns and blast them into next year.

      Your punishment may be a bit extreme but maybe it's just because I'm the kind of guy that likes fair justice & is concerned that the rest of the world sees my country as one that blindly kills people.

      You are forgetting that these pirates are (aside from being human beings) winning people over by giving them things in a very Robin-Hood-esque type scenario--even if it's only offering the people a paying job as a pirate in an otherwise devastated and unstable economy. You would very quickly fall into disfavor with the locals ... these pirates have even alegedly defended fishing areas for locals. They claim they are more like the coast guard trying to protect the food of hungry people. I think entire cities have bought into their propaganda and are willing to harbor/help them.

      True or not, it's brazen disregard for how other people see things that causes really really bad things for America. Going in there, shooting up criminals & leaving is not going to improve anyone's image. Yes, these people are kidnappers & thieves but I don't think insta-death is a good way to deal with them.

      Not a whole lot in this world is purely black and white.

      --
      My work here is dung.
    3. Re:Time for Qs to come back by nbert · · Score: 5, Interesting

      One thing I'd like to add: There are not enough military ships in the world to really control the affected area. More ships result in higher safety, but as long as cargo and tourist ships pass the area unguarded the pirates still have a chance.

      In my opinion any real solution has to change something within Somali territory. It's not like the pirates can switch to safer jobs on land when the international efforts become unpleasant.

    4. Re:Time for Qs to come back by AKAImBatman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I seriously doubt that a Q-Ship armed to the hilt and crewed by experienced naval personnel would fall into pirate hands. These guys are attacking with fishing boats for crying out loud! The problem isn't that our ships can't hold their own against the pirates. That much is stupidly simple. It's finding the pirates that's the problem. And these guys are even less sophisticated than other piracy organizations equipped with speedboats and cutters.

      I mean, take a look at these guys. If someone would arm our merchies with a few mortars and sniper rifles, these pirates wouldn't be able to get their assault rifles within weapons range. But for some reason, today's governments think that armed merchies are a bad idea. So... Q-Ships. They'd kick ass. :-)

    5. Re:Time for Qs to come back by AKAImBatman · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "Launch Marine Assault to capture positively identified pirates" works just as well. It merely lacks that nice ring "blast them into next year" has. :-)

      Your point is well taken. However, I still think Q-Ships are an answer. Q-Ships are the kind of bait that would cause pirates to identify themselves so that you can take action. Whether that be a matter of sinking them or capturing them, there's a good chance of it working. As a bonus, you'll start to give the pirates pause as they attempt to ascertain whether the ship they're about to attack is a real merchie or a Q-Ship.

      For bonus points, borrow real merchant ships but crew them with naval officers and marines. That way NATO forces can move from ship to ship, leaving the pirates to further second-guess themselves. Is this merchie a trap? No way to know short of attempting attack.

    6. Re:Time for Qs to come back by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 5, Funny

      ...any real solution has to change something within Somali territory

      Pave the entire country and turn it into permit required parking.
      Then deny parking permits to all of the pirates.

    7. Re:Time for Qs to come back by AKAImBatman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Have the pirates been killing anyone? Not to my knowledge ....

      Sadly, this is incorrect:

      http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21842522-1702,00.html
      http://article.wn.com/view/2008/10/23/Pirates_to_kill_crew_on_arms_ship_if_NATO_ships_attack/
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1572236/Somali-pirates-threaten-to-kill-tanker-crew.html

      They can and do kill people. And if this is allowed to continue, more and more people are going to die. On both sides.

      I'm merely saddened your plan doesn't involve fixing any of Somalia's real problems. Just killing offenders.

      My plan only addresses the short term issue: The piracy. That has to be dealt with immediately. Unchecked piracy will only result in the loss of more lives and cause economic problems on a world-wide scale.

      Dealing with the political issues in Somalia is a more complex issue that lacks an immediate solution. I wish I could venture a good plan, but I do not understand the dynamics of the situation well enough to produce one. It's not like Somalia hasn't been receiving foreign aid:

      By some
      reckonings, no other country save Israel has
      received such high levels of military and
      economic aid per capita; certainly no country
      has less to show for it. Even before its collapse
      into protracted civil war and anarchy in 1990,
      Somalia had earned a reputation as a graveyard
      of foreign aid, a land where aid projects were
      notoriously unsuccessful, and where high levels
      of foreign assistance helped to create an
      entirely unsustainable, corrupt and repressive
      state.

      What do they do with our foreign aid workers? Why, they kidnap and kill them:

      http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/06/world/africa/06briefs-6FOREIGNAIDW_BRF.html
      http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081105/wl_afp/somaliaunrestreliefkidnap_081105183945
      http://www.patronusanalytical.com/files/Somali%20Aid%20Worker%20Murdered.php
      http://www.pr-inside.com/somali-aid-worker-killed-witnesses-say-r904499.htm

      What would you have us do? I'm all for finding a peaceful solution if one can be arrived at. But as of this moment, there is an immediate problem people are dying or being threatened with death.

      Food for thought: Isn't it interesting how the pirates can't afford food, but can always afford assault rifles? Perhaps there is more to their Robin Hood image than meets the eye.

    8. Re:Time for Qs to come back by denis-The-menace · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The irony is that things only get moving when oil is involved.

      Now that they have a tanker full of it, the US will be called to "liberate" it.

      Once that ship is gone, we'll go back to Status Quo.

      --
      Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
    9. Re:Time for Qs to come back by MacColossus · · Score: 4, Funny

      That's a great idea. Just sneak up on them and push the "F" key on your keyboard.

    10. Re:Time for Qs to come back by IronChef · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I can't find the reference right now, but when I was reading about piracy last week arming the merchant ships was said to be difficult politically.

      I think it was something like this: the merchant ships have to pass through many nations' waters, and in some of those nations the arms needed to fight off pirates are illegal. So... if you have private armed guards on board, you're breaking the law at some of your ports. Therefore, being a well behaved company, you don't have guards at all.

      This is lame, even as it makes sense. How would a US port feel about a foreign ship pulling in when a dozen civilians with grenade launchers are strolling around on deck? The Coast Guard would go ape.

      Anyway, I would like to find a proper explanation for the current state of affairs.

    11. Re:Time for Qs to come back by Snocone · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If that oil tanker had a few RPGs and people that knew how to use them, there wouldn't be a problem.

      No, RPGs aren't an appropriate defense weapon. 500m is the propulsion limit and the limit of hand held accuracy is more like 50m.

      All you need is a handful of hunting rifles of polar bear hunting capability, I suggest my preferred caliber the .300 Win Mag aka 7.62 × 67 mm. Half a dozen of those on deck and you are effectively safe from anything short of an actual warship.
       

    12. Re:Time for Qs to come back by Snocone · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's funny, the shit has been hitting the fan for innocent civilians in Somalia but it only gets real attention (and demand for NATO intervention) when it starts to affect our trade ships

      Uh, dude...

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hawk_Down_(book)

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hawk_Down_(film)

      For crying out loud, there's VIDEO GAMES about it.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Force:_Black_Hawk_Down

      Just exactly what does it take to meet your threshold for "real attention", since apparently a multiple Academy Award winning Ridley Scott motion picture doesn't do it?

    13. Re:Time for Qs to come back by jmorris42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > How would a US port feel about a foreign ship pulling in when a dozen civilians
      > with grenade launchers are strolling around on deck? The Coast Guard would go ape.

      As an NRA member I'm not afraid of arms or people wielding them, so long as they are the right people bearing them for the right reasons and shooting them at the right (or would that be wrong?) people. So no, I would have no problem with a $150M tanker laden with $100M in crude being armed. Seems rather sane to me. If we are trusting the crew not to use the far more dangerous tanker itself as a weapon I see no reason to begrudge them a couple of rocket launchers to defend themselves from pirates. No, they can't carry them off the ship and they should be expected to have the decency to stow them away once they are safely in US waters. If I can't have a rocket launcher why should they get to have all the fun. :)

      This story just goes to show ya what pansies we have allowed ourselves to become. Can you imagine pirate infested waters under Ronald Reagan's six hundred ship navy? People might accuse America of trying to police the world, but dang it back when we really did it the world was a safer place... as it was when the British Navy ruled the seas. Pirates had short life expectancies.

      --
      Democrat delenda est
    14. Re:Time for Qs to come back by winkydink · · Score: 3, Informative
      --

      "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

    15. Re:Time for Qs to come back by el+americano · · Score: 4, Funny

      A strongly worded letter can't be far behind.

      --
      Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. -Groucho Marx
    16. Re:Time for Qs to come back by toriver · · Score: 4, Funny

      You can go further back also, to Lyndon B. Johnson's War on Poverty which eradicated poverty in the U.S.

    17. Re:Time for Qs to come back by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 4, Informative

      Theres been a war on piracy since 1801. And a war on slavery off the coast of Africa that the US was involved in. Theres a power vacuum now with the fall of the Soviet Union and the shrinking of navies and naval basing.

      Back before, the Soviets had naval basing in the region, out of Somalia and at times, Yemen. That dried up, Somalia got disastrous and the UN pulled out. the boil festered and now we are seeing some fallout for giving up on Somalia in the mid 90s.

    18. Re:Time for Qs to come back by RogerWilco · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem is, that if the ships start shooting at the pirates, the pirates start shooting at the merchant ships.

      Given that those ships might carry a cargo worth hundreds of millions, are very slow, almost impossible to miss, and can be sunk with a well placed RPG, it's not a risk most of the merchant companies want to take.

      That is the essence of the issue why these ships are not protecting themselves. The pirates would blow them up.

      --
      RogerWilco the Adventurous Janitor
    19. Re:Time for Qs to come back by DerekLyons · · Score: 3, Informative

      Huh? The USN (and other nation's navies) have been working on anti-piracy measures in that area for years. Just because you've never heard of it doesn't mean it isn't happening.

    20. Re:Time for Qs to come back by Fnord666 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Food for thought: Isn't it interesting how the pirates can't afford food, but can always afford assault rifles?

      That's because assault rifles are a lot more plentiful than food in Somalia.

      --
      'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
    21. Re:Time for Qs to come back by srussia · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I would have modded you up just for the neat phrase you invented: got disastrous ;)

      That would be a euphemism for "was destabilized by a US-backed coup"--in this case in 2006.

      --
      Set your phasers on "funky"!
  2. Not Pirates by youngerpants · · Score: 5, Funny

    I wish people would stop using the word Pirate; they're merely redistributing content.

    1. Re:Not Pirates by Mantrid · · Score: 3, Funny

      We should really be going after the shipyards...without them, we wouldn't have this problem!!

  3. Woah if you zoom in, you can see the ships! by FredFredrickson · · Score: 3, Funny

    Google identified the pirate locations based on the ships themselves! If you zoom in on one, such as Attack ID: 2008/187 You can actually see the pirate ship, and somebody walking the plank! (Just above puerto la cruz)

    --
    Belief? Hope? Preference?The Existential Vortex
  4. Shippers urge copyright blockade of Somali coast by mcgrew · · Score: 5, Funny

    By EILEEN NG - 42 minutes ago
    KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) -- Shipping officials from around the world called Monday for a military blockade along Somalia's coast to intercept copyright infringer vessels heading out to sea. Yemen's government said Somali copyright infringers have seized another ship.

    Peter Swift, managing director of the International Association of Independent Tanker Owners, said stronger naval action -- including aerial and aviation support -- is necessary to battle rampant piracy in the Gulf of Aden near Somalia.

    But NATO, which has four warships off the coast of Somalia, rejected a blockade.

    Some 20 tankers sail through the sea lane daily. But many tanker owners are considering a massive detour around southern Africa to avoid copyright infringers, which will delay delivery and push costs up by 30 percent, Swift said.
    The association, whose members own 2,900 tankers or 75 percent of the world's fleet, opposes attempts to arm merchant ships because it could escalate the violence and put crew members at even greater risk, he said.
    "The other option is perhaps putting a blockade around Somalia and introducing the idea of intercepting vessels leaving Somalia rather than to try to protect the whole of the Gulf of Aden," Swift said.

    Somali copyright infringers have become increasingly brazen, seizing eight vessels in the past two weeks, including a huge Saudi supertanker loaded with $100 million worth of crude oil.

    On Monday, Yemen's Interior Ministry says Somali copyright infringers have hijacked a Yemeni cargo ship in the Arabian Sea. It said communication with the vessel was lost last Tuesday after it had been out to sea for a week.

    The ship is called Adina and it was not immediately clear what cargo it was carrying. The U.S. 5th Fleet based in Bahrain could not confirm the hijacking.
    The Arabian Sea is part of the Indian Ocean and stretches between Yemen and Somalia. The Gulf of Aden links it with the Red Sea.

    A blockade along Somalia's 2,400 mile coastline would not be easy.
    "But some intervention there may be effective," Swift told reporters on the sidelines of a shipping conference in Malaysia.

    U.S. Gen. John Craddock, NATO's supreme allied commander, said Monday the alliance's mandate is solely to escort World Food Program ships to Somalia and to conduct anti-piracy patrols.

    Asked what he thought of a Russian proposal to jointly attack the copyright infringer strongholds, Craddock answered: "That's far beyond what I've been tasked to do."

    According to Lt. Nathan Christensen, 5th Fleet spokesman, more than 14 warships from Denmark, France, India, Malaysia, Pakistan, Russia, the U.S. and NATO are currently patrolling a vast international maritime corridor. They escort some merchant ships and respond to distress calls in the area.
    Christensen declined to comment on the idea of a blockade.
    But the navies say it is virtually impossible to patrol the vast sea around the gulf.
    NATO has ruled out a blockade.

    "Blocking ports is not contemplated by NATO," said NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer in Brussels. U.N. Security Council resolutions "do not include these kind of actions and as far as NATO is concerned, this is at the moment not on the cards," he said.

    Secretary-General of the Arab League Amr Moussa said Monday Arabs should deploy their own naval forces to fight piracy in the Horn of Africa and also cooperate with foreign fleets in the area.

    Diplomats of the Arab countries on the Red Sea met in Cairo last week to coordinate efforts to combat piracy, but some of these nations have been reluctant to get involved.

    Somalia, an impoverished nation caught up in an Islamic insurgency, has had no functioning government since 1991. Before the Yemeni report of another hijacked ship, there had been 95 copyright infringer attacks so far this year in Somali waters, with 39 ships hijacked.

    There were 15 ships with nearly 300 crew still in the hands of Somali copyright infringers, who dock the

  5. They've kidnapped the maps! by davidwr · · Score: 5, Funny

    NEWS FLASH

    This just in...

    Somali pirates have seized control of Slashdot and are using it as their new gunship to take down web sites such as http://www.icc-ccs.org/ .

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  6. Site slashdotted, mirror here: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Site is slashdotted, here's a mirror of the current pirate activity:

    Pirate Hotbed

  7. Convoys by zentinal · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Does anyone know why, given the huge area and the number of ships to protect, merchant ships in the area aren't being organized into convoys with military escort through those waters?

    Wouldn't that strategy work at least as well as it did in WWII?

    I don't think the pirates have submarines or aircraft... yet.

    1. Re:Convoys by kwiqsilver · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Because that would be expensive. There are too many ships going through the Red Sea or other hot spots to organize small enough convoys that don't end up leaving ships waiting for days for an escort. And imagine the traffic jams you'd see at the Suez and Panama Canals when that convoy showed up.

      If you want a military solution, a better option would be to park a carrier or two in each hot spot, and give each merchant ship contact information for the carrier(s) in an area, so they can call in a strafing run on any small, well armed boats that get too close (like pirate 911).

      A better solution still would be to remove the international legal restrictions against carrying small arms (e.g. battle rifles) and fixed armaments (e.g. fixed machine guns and light artillery) on a merchant ship. A few years ago, a Cruise Ship used a sonic weapon to fend off a pirate attack off Somalia. Imagine if instead of a non-lethal sonic cannon, they had unleashed a few rounds from a 30mm Cannon modified to fire at sea-based attackers. It would have stopped that attack and prevented those pirates (and that boat) from mounting any future attacks.

    2. Re:Convoys by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 3, Informative

      give each merchant ship contact information for the carrier(s) in an area, so they can call in a strafing run on any small, well armed boats that get too close (like pirate 911).

      By the time the 'small, well armed boat' is identifiably too close...it is too close for an aircraft to get there in time. Plus which, the military pilot can't just take the word of some random guy about whether to shoot some other random boat in the water.

  8. The solution is simple by xs650 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Send the RIAA and their lawyers after the pirates. It won't stop the piracy, but it will get rid of the RIAA and a bunch of lawyers.

  9. No, they might laugh themselves to death . . . by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 4, Funny

    . . . which can only be the real intention of the announcement of sanctions against the pirates.

    This is actually a big deal for the UN, because they banned Joke Warfare (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke_warfare) years ago.

    Maybe someone should threaten the pirates with "going to bed without any supper?"

    OK, no Nintendo for a week?

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
  10. Proof for Pastafarienism by Nick+Ives · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The Great Flying Spaghetti Monster has revealed to us that there is a link between pirates and global warming, as piracy goes down, global warming increases. Surely this is evidence (not that any is needed) for this basic truth? As pirates steal oil tankers the price of oil will increase thereby limiting its consumption and decreasing the amount of global warming.

    It's plain simple logic, just like the plain, simple, wholesome taste of pasta with a tomato sauce.

    --
    Nick
  11. Take off the tinfoil hat by spun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No, most pirates were not privateers. But most privateers were also pirates. The reason being, privateers could only get Letters of Marque and Reprisal when their country was at war, and the letters only covered attacking enemy shipping. What did privateers do during the times their country was not at war? They turned to outright piracy.

    The idea of modern countries handing out letters of Marque is ridiculous. Implying the pirates are after oil is just dumb. Saying the pirates don't have a lot to gain in the long run is also stupid, and shows how uneducated you are on the matter. Just look at the ransoms they receive. You only have to do it once. This is not some kind of Pirates of the Caribbean secret order of pirates. This is groups of starving desperate men trying for the Big Score. They take what they can get, and hope the shipping company will pay a ransom rather than see their ship sunk. They aren't selling oil and goods on the black market.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  12. Historical Precident by sp3d2orbit · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm normally pro-US hegemony and quick to defend our actions. But, I'm about to give a silver bullet to my opposition.

    I can't help but notice the parallels between America's situation and Rome during its final centuries. Rome eventually degraded as barbaric pressures from the outside world overwhelmed their ability to control them.

    Modern America seems to be collapsing under a similar weight. Terrorism and piracy are equivalent modern forms of barbarism. The fact that the US cannot control it anymore validates the position that the US military is way overstretched and that our empire is on the decline.

    Ug.

  13. So... by yyr · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...when will there be a Google map showing the locations of ninjas?

  14. Reasons Piracy Continues by linuxbert · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Piracy exists in Somalia because the government lacks sufficient ability and influence to stop it.
    It continues largely because the international community that has the ability to stop it, doesnt have the reason to. Modern warships can sink targets they cant visually see. The Gulf of Aden is large, but its not that large.

    Most ships, even if owned by a western company, are flagged in a Convenient state - Panama, Liberia etc. these countries love the revenue form being a flag state but have no means of protecting their flagged ships. Most ships are crewed by non western crews.. many from the Philippines, Bangladesh, etc. again countries with limited abilities to protect their nationals internationally.

    The west has many ships in the area, however they are reluctant to act for political reasons, if no nationals are involved, or its not a home flagged ship, its really not the concern of the country. The pirates get their million dollar ransom, which to a pirate is a wind fall, but to a shipping company, used to paying $60000/day fuel bills, really isnt that big a deal. Furthermore the risks to the pirates are relatively small - the French raided a la Poinete, a yacht that was taken by pirates and was crewed by french nationals, and the Indians sunk a Pirate mother ship last week. So for the pirates 2 out of over 100 incidents ended badly. To stop the pirates, the western world needs to actively seek them out, hunt them down and stop them from taking ships, as well as recapturing ships by force. When pirates begin to face the consequences - to this point there have been almost none, then they will cease their actions, because taking a ship no longer results in a quick profit for the prirates, and the risk of death goes up significantly for the actual takers of the ship.

    Incidentally, the IMO is now recommending ships hire private security to protect them in troubled waters. Blackwater international has also purchased ships. The 18th century tales of piracy make a difference between a Privateer and a pirate a privateer was a mercenary ship working for a nation, to harass enemy shipping - they could take prizes, but paid a percentage to the crown, and wouldn't attack friendly shipping. a pirate had no Letter of Marque, paid no commissions, and attacked who he wanted when he wanted...

    everything old is new again.

    One final aside, those whom complain about copyright infringement by referring to it as piracy do a great disservice to the victims of piracy, imagine having your office attacked by men armed with machine guns and RPG's and your only defense is to run, and spray the attackers with a fire hose. from the floor above..