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Red Flag Linux Forced On Chinese Internet Cafes
iamhigh writes "Reports are popping up that Chinese Internet Cafes are being required to switch to Red Flag Linux. Red Flag is China's biggest Linux distro and recently received headlines for their Olympic Edition release. The regulations, effective Nov. 5th, are aimed at combating piracy and require only that cafes install either a legal version of Windows or Red Flag. However, Radio Free Asia says that cafes are being forced to install Red Flag even if they have legal versions of Windows. Obviously questions about spying and surveillance have arisen, with no comment from the Chinese Government."
Obviously questions about spying and surveillance have arisen ...
Um, it uses RPM as a package manager so as long as the government isn't forcing Cafes to use a certain package repository or use certain packages, where does the danger of surveillance lie? I mean, I wouldn't trust the Chinese government either but I am confused why a mandate of Red Flag Linux upsets people in this case ... and a recommendation from the DoD is probably heralded?
Yeah, they're running an industry's tech core, yeah they're stating exactly what OSS to use but where is the danger?
My work here is dung.
The year of Linux on the desktop, right?
You know Microsoft has been pushing for the Chinese government to do something about the rampant piracy in China... They no doubt expected reduced piracy to lead to more legal installations of Windows but it has backfired on them hugely with this move to allow Internet Cafés to use Red Flag Linux.
Also the spying claims are meh. We already know the Chinese Gov. watch the pipes closely there really is no advantage in further monitoring within Internet Cafés.
A red flag should go up when you are forced to use an operating system designated by the government.
If you don't think Red Flag is meant to be a Windows replacement, take a look at Wikipedia's screen shot of Version 6 (presumably out of the box).
...
Isn't this the part where Gates shits his gourd and asks to meet with Hu Jintao? Then baits the large part of greater China with free software that he writes off as a goodwill donation? I mean, we are talking a serious part of the world's population
My work here is dung.
Windows market share suddenly drops below 50%
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
In China, because a large number of the players do not own the computer they use to play games (e.g. Internet cafes), the CD keys required to create an account can be purchased independently of the software package. In order to play the game, players must also purchase prepaid game cards that can be played for 66 hours and 40 minutes.[43] A monthly fee model is not available to players of this region. The Chinese government and The9, the licensee for World of Warcraft in China, have imposed a modification on Chinese versions of the game which places flesh on bare-boned skeletons and transforms dead character corpses into tidy graves. These changes were imposed by the Chinese government in an attempt to "promote a healthy and harmonious online game environment" in World of Warcraft.
My work here is dung.
If I were some non-american government then I would prefer people to use Linux. Not because of any backdoors that I could put in it, but because I could be reasonably sure that there were no backdoors put in it by the US government.
I've been into some of China's small town Internet Cafe's and almost everyone was under 20 and gaming. I sure hope those games have been ported with proper language support or the cafe's will be hurting.
The internet cafes in China are not going to run Linux anytime soon.
Why?
Because the cafe users are gamers, mostly. They use the *cheap* internet connection to play one of tons of different windows only MMORPGs(And that includes World of Warcraft.) or Online shooters.(Used to be counterstrike.)
To ask those internet cafes to run Linux is to ask them to get rid of their source of profits.
The new rules that went into effect Nov. 5 are aimed at cracking down on the use of pirated software, said Hu Shenghua, a spokesman for the Culture Bureau in the city of Nanchang.
Welcome to China!
And anyone can stand in front of a fucking tank.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
And you think that Yahoo, Google, Cisco, Microsoft etc. aren't in league with the PRC government? In order to do business in China, you have to do as the government say. Actually, it kind of works like that in every nation...
The backdoor fears are being overblown, this is open source after all. It would be trivial to compare the binary packages installed on one of the internet cafe computers with a standard Red Flag install to see if any have been modified. Then strace or disassemble the modified binary to find out what it is doing. If you're worried that the entire Red Flag distribution might be compromised, consider that the Chinese government is recommending that this distribution be used on government and corporate computers. If there were a deliberately introduced backdoor, then it is highly likely that either a Western security researcher, or the NSA, would find it, and then be able to gain access to the Chinese computers. Thus the Chinese government actually has a very strong motive to ensure that there isn't a generic backdoor. And again, finding such a backdoor would be trivial - all you have to do is compile your own distribution using the same versions of each source package, and then compare the output binaries. Having said that, Debian had a modified ssh package with a gaping security vulnerability for a long time before anyone noticed... but eventually someone did.
I really think that there is a higher risk of the Chinese government sneaking a backdoor into Windows through a Chinese-American employee of Microsoft, or through compromising a Chinese CDROM factory or OEM manufacturer, than of being able to covertly introduce a secret backdoor into an open source Linux distribution like Red Flag. Having the source makes hiding a backdoor very difficult - if they ever did introduce a backdoor, they would probably be quite blatant about it. And as for the Windows comparisons, we still don't really know what the _NSAKEY was for.
But you'll probably get cleaved and die unless you have 25000+ hp. :)
Homonyms are fun!
You're driving your car, but they're riding their bikes there.
Anyone cares to read the referred articles? This is only a move of a insignificant local government and is already criticized in many Chinese forums and online media sites. As a big country, things much weirder than this happens all the time. It is surprising why it gets singled out here. Yes, Chinese government heavily filters Internet connections and suppress any sites that it sees inappropriate, but it does NOT have to force linux on Internet cafe simply to spy on citizens. Believe me, it is much easier and inexpensive to spy on Windows machines. My suggestion: next time before you bring up something about a monarchy/communist/evil China, do some research.
Yes, there can and should be questions.
The first one to ask is "who would want this rumour, true or not, to be spread?"
The second one to ask is "do those who might benefit have a history of disinformation?"
The third one to ask is "if country X monitors hundreds of millions of PCs, where are all the millions of people doing the monitoring?"
China is a new capitalist society with roots in communism, and has quite a bit of baggage to deal with. Among them a propensity to overregulate everything, and likewise for the citizens to ignore all the regulations as long as no-one is watching.
I don't doubt for a second that the Chinese government can and will spy on some of its citizens, just like CIA, FBI, NSA and SS will over here. But they quite frankly don't have the infrastructure to do full scale computer surveillance, nor any need to -- if they want someone arrested, they simply arrest him or her. They don't need to collect evidence and convince a judge first.
And just like here, if they want to monitor internet traffic, doing it at the ISP or confiscating equipment is far easier than backdooring individual systems. For one thing, you don't need highly skilled agents capable of accessing back doors with the required finesse and understanding.
This whole article smells of FUD and agitprop. Sure, China is designated the new Big Evil, and the US needs another Enemy to believe in right now. But seeing Chinese government conspiracies in everything doesn't make it true, any more than seeing communist conspiracies in the 50s and 60s made that propaganda true.
My guess: A canton or city government decided to go linux, and chose Red Flag as their distro. Some zealous and cerebrally challenged bureaucrats (I know, a tautology) then interpreted that as an order. And a newspaper picked up the blunder, and wrote a note about it, which was then picked up and massaged to fit the desired perception by their western colleagues who like to post propaganda against the enemy du jour, because it sells ads. Our local Ministry of Truth won't interfere, as long as the bashing is against this year's designated foe.
ICBW, but it seems like a much simpler explanation.
And personally, I think China is on the road towards freedom, even if they stumble every now and then. But we need to keep in mind that it's going to be a long march.