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Why Use Virtual Memory In Modern Systems?
Cyberhwk writes "I have a system with Windows Vista Ultimate (64-bit) installed on it, and it has 4GB of RAM. However when I've been watching system performance, my system seems to divide the work between the physical RAM and the virtual memory, so I have 2GB of data in the virtual memory and another 2GB in the physical memory. Is there a reason why my system should even be using the virtual memory anymore? I would think the computer would run better if it based everything off of RAM instead of virtual memory. Any thoughts on this matter or could you explain why the system is acting this way?"
You must be confused about virtual vs. physical memory. In modern processors, there is no penalty for using virtual memory, all translation from virtual to physical address space is done internal to the processor and you won't notice the difference.
So all the physical memory installed in your PC is used by the processor as one big pool of resources. Processes can think whatever they want and address huge memory spaces, that's all in virtual land. Virtual memory only starts impacting performance when pages are being swapped in and out, because all your processes need more resident memory than you actually have.
Swapping means accessing the disk and freezing the requesting process until its page of memory has arrived from the disk, which takes millions of processor cycles (a lifetime from the processor's point of view). It's not so bad if you swap once, as the processor can work on other processes while waiting for the data to arrive, but if all your programs keep pushing each other out of physical memory, you get thrashing and consider yourself happy if the mouse pointer is still responsive!
So you may want to change the title of your post to: "why use physical memory in modern systems?". I would point you to an article I wrote on that topic in 1990, but somehow I can't find a link to it on the web :-)
fairsoftware.net - software developers share revenue from the apps they build
Memory exists to be used. If memory is not in use, you are wasting it. The reality is that your system will operate with higher performance if unused data is paged out of RAM to disk and the newly freed memory is used for additional disk caching. Vista's memory manager is actually reasonably smart and will only page data out to disk when it really won't be used, or you experience an actual low-memory condition.
Virtual memory and pagefiles still exist so that there will be persistent, recoverable storage of your browsing and search history, illegally downloaded music, and furrie porn should anybody come a-knockin after you hit the power switch.
[/tinfoil hat]
you could create a RAM Disk and set your page file to use that.
Then all your virtual memory is in RAM.
I'll leave it to someone else to explain why that isn't a good idea.
"The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget." -Thomas Szasz
We who know what we are doing are free to take the risk of running our computers without a swapfile.
Most people are not in a position where they can be sure that they will never run out of physical memory. Because of that, all operating systems for personal computers set up a swapfile by default: It's better for joe average computer owner to complain about a slow system than for him to lose his document when the system crashes because he filled up the physical memory (and there is no swap file to fall back on).
Stop the brainwash
Absolutely not true. You can even install and run Vista on a computer with 1Gb ram and no page file. And run applications. So it doesn't reserve 1Gb for itself and thus, your myth is busted. Vista's memory manager will use as much memory it can (free memory is a waste, so it will use it rather than watch it empty). But as soon as a process needs memory it will give it back.
It's time to realise that Abble's products are the biggest abomination these days. Just say NO to the dumb iAbble way!!
I'd assume what he's asking is: in modern systems where the amount of physical RAM is considerably larger than what most people's programs in total use, why does the OS ever swap RAM out to disk?
The answer is basically to free up RAM for disk cache, based on a belief (sometimes backed up by benchmarks) that for typical use patterns, the performance hit of sometimes having to swap RAM back into physical memory is outweighed by the performance gain of a large disk cache.
Of course, OS designers are always revisiting these assumptions---it may be that for some kinds of use patterns using a smaller disk cache and swapping RAM out to disk less leads to better performance, or at least better responsiveness (if that's the goal).
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
This should generate some polarized discussion.
There are two camps of thought.
One will insist that, no matter how much memory is currently allocated, it makes more sense to swap out that which isn't needed in order to keep more free physical ram. They will argue until they are blue in the face that the benefits of doing so are good.
Essentially - your OS is clever and it tries pre-emptively swap things out so the memory will be available as needed.
The other camp - and the one I subscribe to - says that as long as you have enough physical ram to do whatever you need to do - any time spent swapping is wasted time.
I run most of my workstations (Windows) without virtual memory. Yes, on occasion, I do hit a "low on virtual memory error" - usually when something is leaky - but I prefer to get the error and have to re-start or kill something rather than have the system spend days getting progressively slower, slowly annoying me more and more, and then giving me the same error.
This is not to say that swap is bad, or that it shouldn't be used - but I prefer the simpler approach.
thinks "Virtual Memory" is the same thing as paging...
Mac Classic (OS 8 for sure) used the term "Virtual Memory" the same way Windows today uses "Page File" or unix uses "swap", so you can at least understand why some people might be confused by this.
db
I am literally 3000 tokens away from the chaotic crossbow --Stephen
I think he is referring to the userspace/kernelspace split in Windows NT. On 32bit Windows XP, by default, the userspace (ring3) will have at most 2 GB of the physical RAM, and the kernel space would get the rest (some of it paged and some of it not). On systems with more than 3G of RAM (a lot by 2002 standards), it was kinda pointless to reserve that much for the kernel space, so they added a boot.ini flag that changed the split to _AT_MOST_ 3GBytes for the userspace and the rest for kernel space.
In Vista the split for 3G/1G of RAM is default. Actually on a system with 4G of RAM running in 32bit mode, you can't use all of them even if you try (in Windows XP), because right under the 4G limit you would have the PCI memory address mappings, that can be as large as 512M for a common video card with half a gig of RAM. Add to that the RAID controllers and the other hardware, and you have about 800megs of RAM unused because they can't be addressed, as their address-space is used by the installed devices.
I think that http://support.microsoft.com/kb/823440/ and http://support.microsoft.com/kb/171793/ should describe what I'm talking about pretty clearly.
UNIX was not designed to stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing clever ones.
Windows makes me CRAZY about this. the OS is internally configured to use an LRU algorithm to aggressively page.
("Technical bastards" who question my use of paging and swap interchangeably in this post can send their flames to /dev/null \Device\Null or NUL depending on OS)
What I found when disabling paging on an XP pro system with 2GB RAM is that the system performance is explosively faster without the disk IO.
Even an *idle* XP pro system swaps - explaining the time it takes for the system to be responsive to your request to maximize a window you have not used in a while.
I was thrilled to have a rocket-fast system again - until I tried to hibernate my laptop. Note that the hibernation file is unrelated to the swap/paging space.
The machine consistently would blue screen when trying to hibernate if swap/paging was disabled. Enabling swap enabled the hibernation function again. Since reboots take *FOREVER* to reload all the crap that XP needs on an enterprise-connected system - systems mangement, anti-virus agent, software distribution tool, and the required ram-defragger which allows XP to "stand by" when you've got more than 1GB of RAM, plus IM, etc
I reboot as infrequently as possible and consider "stand by" and "hibernate" required functions. As a result, I live with XP and paging enabled, and tolerate the blasted system "unpaging" apps that have been idle a short time.
Poo!
But Herr Heisenberg, how does the electron know when I'm looking?
The Kessel Run is obviously a surviving salesman problem.
The traveling salesman is selling zombie survival kits at the onset of the zombie apocalypse. He must sell $X worth of kits to afford his choppa ticket, and return to the evac zone. The evac choppa is waiting for him (or does continuous runs), so time is not an issue, and he can make long-winded sales pitches in safe houses.
Distance traveled is an issue, because the horde is everywhere, and the best strategy is to minimize exposure and avoid detection.
Quickness (acceleration, agility) is an issue because it helps you avoid detection, and when detected, you need to escape or hide quickly.
Speed (top speed of your van) is an issue because you often need to make a beeline to the nearest safe house, or to the evac zone once you have met your quota.
A surviving salesman is rated on his total distance traveled. A lower distance is indicative of a better salesman, and a better vehicle. Being able to zoom through the most dangerous areas will shorten your trip (path length) due to the increased demand and reduced supply of zombie survival kits in said areas.
For the Millennium Falcon, the above applies with a few differences. Han Solo and Chewbaca are hiding from the Empire, not the zombie horde. Instead of selling survival kits, they're smuggling contraband. Instead of running to safe houses, they're running off to Mos Eisley or other fringe/pirate friendly planets the Empire doesn't have (complete) control over. The money gained isn't for a choppa ticket, but for the general livelihood of Han and Chewbaca.