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Why a Music Tax Is a Bad Idea

An anonymous reader writes with a followup to the story posted last week about Warner Music's plan for a music tax for universities. "There's been some debate about this plan and Techdirt has a detailed explanation of why a music tax is a bad idea, noting that it effectively rewards those who failed in the marketplace, punishes those who innovated and sets up a huge, inefficient and unnecessary bureaucracy. Meanwhile, plenty of musicians who are experimenting with new business models are finding that they can make more money and appeal to more fans. So, why stymie that process with a new bureaucracy that simply funds the big record labels?"

37 of 194 comments (clear)

  1. why? by internerdj · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So, why stymie that process with a new bureaucracy that simply funds the big record labels?
    ...
    Profit???

    At the very least campaign contributions?

    1. Re:why? by Justin+Hopewell · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because it doesn't make any sense, and damn it, that's the American way!

    2. Re:why? by tyrione · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think the biggest barrier to growth is the lack of music talent now compared to the times past which saw explosive growth in the 70's and 80's.

    3. Re:why? by Moryath · · Score: 5, Insightful

      it effectively rewards those who failed in the marketplace, punishes those who innovated and sets up a huge, inefficient and unnecessary bureaucracy

      Well, that explains why Warner and the MafiAA are wanting it. They failed in the marketplace because they refuse to innovate and adapt with the times.

      Meanwhile, plenty of musicians who are experimenting with new business models are finding that they can make more money and appeal to more fans.

      And of course, that's the other thing that scares the shit out of the MafiAA - the new business models make them obsolete.

    4. Re:why? by Justin+Hopewell · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The talent is out there, its just not on the radio.

    5. Re:why? by Daimanta · · Score: 3, Funny

      "Profit???"

      I think you mean

      step n-1) ?????
      step n) Profit

      --
      Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
    6. Re:why? by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 5, Funny

      No. They're too big to fail, so they clearly need a bailout.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    7. Re:why? by Moryath · · Score: 5, Informative

      Darnit, bumped the "submit" button early.

      I think the biggest barrier to growth is the lack of music talent now compared to the times past which saw explosive growth in the 70's and 80's.

      Not true, not true at all. There is plenty of new music talent out there; the problem is that the MafiAA companies no longer want to promote new talent, because new talent are not interested in selling their eternal souls to crappy slave-labor contracts, MafiAA "creative accounting" practices, and multi-album deals where the labels hold musicians hostage by claiming their final contracted album needs to be "re-done" over and over until they manage to blackmail the artist into signing an extension or giving up any hope of ever owning their own music.

      Track the MafiAA's supposed "piracy loss" numbers against the number of new albums and new acts released, and you find a linear correlation that has absolutely nothing to do with "piracy."

      But why take it from me? Take it instead from someone who's lived through MafiAA Hell herself.

    8. Re:why? by eniacfoa · · Score: 4, Informative

      your 100% right...they arenot funding talent and do not deserve to reap any extra taxes in... record execs have been heard saying james brown would never have been signed in todays climate...thats really sad...

    9. Re:why? by mcvos · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think the biggest barrier to growth is the lack of music talent now compared to the times past which saw explosive growth in the 70's and 80's.

      There's just as much talent now as there was in the '70s. Don't forget there was also quite a lot of crap in the '70s, but that's not what gets remembered. We remember the classics. There was an enormous amount of crap in the 80s that nobody remembers anymore (except for Rick Astley).

      And then there's the fact that record companies don't like to invest in new artist (except for artists they created and control), so new artists have to work really hard to get any exposure. Well, I'm sure this effect also existed in the '70s, but maybe it's gotten stronger now.

      At least, it did until recently. Now all of a sudden completely unknown artists can get exposure on MySpace or YouTube and score a big hit. Artists and customers in control, which is the way it should be. And that is exactly the biggest fear of the record companies: we're about to cut out the middle man who used to decide who succeeds and what we listen to.

  2. It Depends On Your POV by Snowdog · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So, why stymie that process with a new bureaucracy that simply funds the big record labels?
    I think you've answered your own question. Warner Music isn't proposing this for your benefit.

  3. Call it what it is... by jemenake · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's not a "Music Tax", it's a "Record Company Bailout"

    1. Re:Call it what it is... by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Extortion rather than bailout.

  4. Not to mention... by HaeMaker · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It taxes (more like fines) those who did nothing wrong.

  5. a new bureaucracy that simply funds the big record by RichMan · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You answered your own question:
    "a new bureaucracy that simply funds the big record"

    If you were a big record company that is the greatest solution ever. They have to do nothing and roll in the cash at the government and end users expense. Straight to step 4) profit.

    Why our governments are even considering it is a question we should ask every law maker out there.

    Why the nation of the Boston Tea Party is even considering it? Is an even greater question.

  6. Here's a better question by 77Punker · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Why would any self respecting university volunteer itself for this?

    I know my alma mater would never put up with this and I suspect most other universities have the same sense of dignity. This plan cannot possibly succeed.

  7. More reasons why it's a bad idea by joe_cot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The music tax will be based on how much music is currently being shared online. Do you expect the amount to stay static, after it's legalized?

    Of course not. All of a sudden, how to download music will be on the news. People will make lots of money helping the technology-illiterate use file sharing. Everyone will file share music, because they're being taxed for it anyway. Music file sharing will go through the roof, and profits will drop lower than they knew was possible. That's when the tax will start going up.

    Second Issue. All you file sharers out there: how often do you download a whole discography, when you only really want 5 songs tops? Exactly. That whole discography is going to count towards that artist's share of the tax. People do a lot of things out of laziness when it's free.

    Third issue. Do you think it will stop at a music tax? Next the MPAA will be clamoring for a movie tax, and there'll be moves for a different fee for everything in existence: a video game tax, a tv show tax, a pornography tax, a sewing kit tax, etc. Once you open that box, it's not going to close again.

    1. Re:More reasons why it's a bad idea by Pinky · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You know, those big fancy American labels sell here too. Sometimes in this fancy store called walmart. do you have those in america? Well we do anyway, they are very popular here.

      What I meant was the local, Canadian market for movies and music, both local and imported, hasn't collapsed despite the fact that p2p sites present a free and legal alternative. I know it's presumptuous to think that a little country with approximately the same population of California could be used as a test case for a country with a population ten times the size but I'd be willing to stick my neck out there and say that it could.

      ....On the other hand, if you wanted to play it safe you could have the law only apply in each individual state. Sure, that would be equivalent to enacting it on the country on the whole but through a cute trick of accountancy you'd technically be enacting it in units smaller or comparable to canada... thus guaranteeing that it would work as it does in Canada.

    2. Re:More reasons why it's a bad idea by langelgjm · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Remember copyright is what protects FOSS... That's why I am a big fan of copyright.

      FOSS would do just fine without copyright. The success of FOSS is because of dedicated communities of volunteers and commitment to principles of openness and sharing.

      Copyright helps FOSS in the sense that someone can't just scoop up a GPL'd project, modify it, and start selling it without releasing their modifications, but even if they could, that doesn't mean the project wouldn't exist in the first place.

      --
      "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
    3. Re:More reasons why it's a bad idea by Iamthecheese · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Copyright was always intended to give artists of all types a temporary monopoly on their works. When a law is abusive, it becomes the citizen's duty to violate it. I stopped respecting copyright the day I read about the micky mouse law, which effectively extended copyright far far beyond the term anyone rationally should have a copyright.

      --
      If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
    4. Re:More reasons why it's a bad idea by Red+Flayer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When a law is abusive, it becomes the citizen's duty to violate it.

      I disagree. When a law is abusive, it is the citizen's duty to protest and get the law changed. Violation of the law should be the means of second-to-last resort[1] (revolution, of course, being the last resort).

      I believe the rule of law is of huge importance to the efficient functioning of society, and immediate disregard for any unliked law, even abusive ones, leads ultimately to undermining the foundation of cooperative society.

      [1] Special exception: laws which, by their nature, prevent one from further recourse against that law -- such as laws against free speech, laws against the right to bear arms, etc.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
  8. "The Art of Taxing" by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I read in "The Economist" a while back, that the "Art of Taxing," is like plucking a live goose for feathers.

    You want to get the maximum amount of feathers, with the minimum amount of fuss.

    So, try to sneak in a small tax, that nobody notices, or can do anything about. Or pick on a small minority, and whack them with a big tax.

    Here we have Warner asking for a small "taste" from everybody.

    I prefer to "eat alone."

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
  9. Music Tax is the foot in the door by onkelonkel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    After they get the music tax, you know they're going to go after a movie tax, a tv series tax, a game tax and an ebook tax.

    --
    None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
  10. They'll do it because they think they can by rudeboy1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Warner is proceeding under the assumption that if they apply their big guns to this, they will get it pushed through. Especially for those colleges that would rather roll over and pass the bill to the students than fight for their rights. If I were a big music exec, I'd be doing the same thing. It's free money, even if only a handful of schools agree.

    What burns me about it is that it's obviously a money grab, and it's so blatantly immoral it kills me that it's reached this level of attention. First off, why Warner? Why do they get the money? Second off, I'm a musician on the side, and I put out albums on a regular basis which make money here on a local level. If my band's album is downloaded on a college campus, is some of that tax going to go to me, if I have no affiliation with Warner? NO! So not only are they getting money for music that may or may not even be downloaded, they're getting money for content that isn't even theirs to profit on.

    It's my opinion that the music industry has an standing policy of "do everything you think you can get away with", which, when combined with the more venerated "better to ask for forgiveness than permission" puts them in the frame of mind to do this. And if they get away with it, even a little bit, they're making money. For those lamenting that these guys are clinging to a dying business model, wake up and look around. This is the new business model! Use your clout and presence to try and get as much free money as you can, while doing damage control on the other side to stem any repercussions from less than moral practices. If you had millions of dollars to throw into a system like this to "prime the pump" so to speak, and you valued a quick buck over scruples, why the hell wouldn't you try to pull something like this? /soapbox

    --
    Raging in an online forum won't do anything for the world around you. To see change, you must take action.
    1. Re:They'll do it because they think they can by butalearner · · Score: 3, Informative

      Second off, I'm a musician on the side, and I put out albums on a regular basis which make money here on a local level. If my band's album is downloaded on a college campus, is some of that tax going to go to me, if I have no affiliation with Warner? NO! So not only are they getting money for music that may or may not even be downloaded, they're getting money for content that isn't even theirs to profit on.

      Oh don't worry, from the previous /. story:

      The idea is that students would be free to file share, but the university needs to monitor and track everything, create a pool of money, hand it over to a recording industry entity that promises to distribute the proceeds fairly.

      100-to-1 says this entity is the RIAA and "distributing the proceeds fairly" means funding litigation against students from universities that haven't agreed. You know, just like the "proceeds" from their lawsuits to date. Of course the inevitable end result is that nobody will pirate your music anymore, and you make more money! Beautiful, isn't it?

  11. Re:While we're at it... by TypoNAM · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Funny thing is in my neighborhood you can frequently hear some birds chirping like they're reciting car alarm tones and the most hilarious part is they memorized the entire alarm cycle and will do so in the exact order on common alarms.

    I'm sure birds in other places have done the same thing, but in order to find out requires actually going outside. :)

    --
    This space is not for rent.
  12. Here's one by Xelios · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Normally I'm not a fan of rap, but I came across a guy by the name of Immortal Technique a few weeks ago that impressed me quite a bit. Not only are his lyrics actually about important things rather than bling, hos and poppin caps, but he seems to get the new way music distribution works.

    He's been on an independent label since 2000 (he's co-owner of it now I think) and in that time he's sold maybe 300,000 units total. Is that a lot compared to artists on major labels? No, but he makes $7 per CD sold and lots more money doing live shows. He said in an interview that he was offered $150,000 to make an album for a major label and he turned them down.

    He's not making nearly as much money as Jay Z or some other big name rapper, but he has full control over his production and full control over his music, something he says is more important than money. I'll leave you with a piece from an interview:

    Lots of people, not just the record labels, told me that this wasn't going to be lucrative or that no one was going to care, but I was fortunate enough to believe in myself and say, listen, I'm going to do whatever I want, with or without the express permission of other people. There's no gatekeeper for me. I don't need somebody to co-sign me to put me on.

    Anyone who has supported me has never been because I twisted their arm, it's been out of the goodness of their own heart because they felt the truth in the music. So I think in terms of marketing myself, I don't need to create a rap persona, or a different personality in order to sell records. For me, it's just as simple as getting the word out and getting the music to people. The music sells itself, and the message sells itself.
    ...
    I definitely would like people to purchase The 3rd World in stores and purchase it online, but I think it was more of a way for me to express my frustration with the music industry. I can't believe they have the audacity to call anybody else a thief. As much money as they steal from artists, as much as they don't have a health care program for any of their artists, and I look at stuff like that and I'm disgusted. They go to these conferences and tell kids, "How can you steal a record?" I'm like really?


    Full interview

    --
    Murphey's fighting Occam, and we're in the stands.
  13. Re:a new bureaucracy that simply funds the big rec by Tired+and+Emotional · · Score: 4, Informative

    The Boston Tea Party happened because the government lowered taxes, so that the smugglers could make less money. They were protesting against cheap legal tea, not against taxes on tea. Seems like the record company proposal is totally in the spirit of the Boston Tea Party.

    --
    Squirrel!
  14. Re:a new bureaucracy that simply funds the big rec by Endo13 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    No, they were protesting against a tea monopoly run by the East India Company that the British Government was trying to force on them. They only lowered taxes to force their competition out of business so they could raise them again later.

    This music tax is remarkably similar to what the Boston Tea Party was in protest against.

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  15. Re:While we're at it... by jskora · · Score: 5, Funny

    Dear Sir,

    Those alarm tones are copyrighted and these birds are in violation of royalty agreements. Due to their lack of financial mean, redress will be targeted at the neighborhood associations that let this blatant abuse of intellectual property rights occur unabated.

    We will be in touch shortly!

    Sincerely,

    CAIAA - Car Alarm Industry Artists Associations

  16. But I don't want to subsidize mediocrity! by MarkvW · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is just a fancy way of the music industry trying to hook up an IV drip tube to everybody's credit card account. It is like Netflix, but with music.

    My first problem with this is that the music industry is only interested in promoting big-hit mass-market stuff that applies to the lowest common denominator. Excuse me, but I don't want to give my money to Britney Spears.

    My second problem is that I want to be able to opt out of paying for more than I use.

    My third problem is that a structure like this gives the music industry too much leverage in the internet world, and I prefer a free internet.

    Never, I say!

  17. Possibly Incorrect Assumption by Greyfox · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Everyone seems to assume the money would go to the record companies. How about we establish a music tax and allow musicians to register their copyrights with the Library of Congress to get a cut of it? We could completely remove the music industry and its associated overhead from the equation. Musicians wouldn't have to worry about marketing anymore, everyone would get a share and we could remove the drag on society that the RIAA has become.

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  18. and a bigger why.... by Crazy+Taco · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So the bigger "why" is this: Why can't we just agree that taxes in general are a bad thing? It's not just the music tax that would be bad, it's almost all of them. Of course some very minimal taxes are necessary to build just enough government to protect our freedoms from anarchy and external threats, and to provide for a very few public goods like roads, but otherwise taxes are bad. Any time you take money in the form of taxes, you are taking money out of the economy that could have been used productively, and giving it to government which, without the pressure of market forces, is not going to have any incentive to use those resources in an optimal way.

    And for those who are skeptical, I think I need to go no further for an example than to point to President Elect Obama's appointments for cabinet and agency heads. It's not the "who is appointed" that matters, it's the how freakin' many are appointed. Seriously, its like he's appointed three or four cabinet or agency heads a day for the past month! We started out this country with only three secretaries. Are all these cabinet positions actually providing a service? You've got the department of energy with nearly 30 billion dollars, a department that was created by Jimmy Carter to help us achieve energy security and independence. Obviously that didn't happen, and in fact we've gone the opposite direction, so what exactly are they doing over there with all those billions? Then you have the department of education (also created by da man Jimmy Carter) with what, 60 billion a year? They are supposed to ensure our children have a good education, yet we spend more money per capita on students than anywhere in the world and have some of the worst results of any industrialized nation. What in the world are they doing over there with all that money, besides handing large sums directly to the teachers unions?

    I think you see my point. You can go right down the list... secretary of health and human services, secretary of housing and urban development (that's been a real bright spot of success, right?), secretary of agriculture, secretary of labor, secretary of veterans affairs (we need a whole cabinet branch for this?), etc. We've taken hundreds of billions, if not trillions, of dollars out of the economy annually through taxes and given it to these guys. Is that productive, especially in comparison to letting that money drive growth in our economy, which raises the prosperity of every single citizen?

    Taxes are a bad thing... they simply allow the bureaucracy to expand to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy. I think Dave Ramsey said it best when he said that the economy is a wild, powerful dog, happy and free. And the government and its taxes are a tick on the backside of that dog. A tick that, in some of the more productive sectors of our economy, is easily 40% of the size of the dog!

    --
    Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it.
    1. Re:and a bigger why.... by theheadlessrabbit · · Score: 3, Insightful

      but all of these taxes are not vanishing into a black hole. they are giving people jobs, and this money is used to pay salaries. those salaries are then used to buy things (perhaps even at a store owned by a friend or relative of yours)

      its not just roads that taxes support, it's police men, fire fighters, librarians, teachers, soldiers, the agriculture industry, the automotive industry, research grants, small business grants, (and in my country, doctors and nurses)

      taxes pay for civilization. sure, things may go way to far, bureaucracy is wasteful and inefficient, but what is the alternative?

      Overall, would you rather live the heavily taxed life you live now, or would you like to keep all your money, but have no roads, no public education, no security, no fire protection, no nation defense, no libraries, no public parks, no affordable foods, no technological progress due to a lack of funds, etc.?

      --
      -I only code in BASIC.-
    2. Re:and a bigger why.... by jonaskoelker · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's not just the music tax that would be bad, it's almost all of them.

      That's strange. In Denmark, if you work full time at minimum wage, you're paying at least 40% of what you earn in taxes. Get a well-paid Code Monkey position and you're looking at something like 50-60%. On top of that, there's 25% sales tax added to everything (meaning 20% of what you pay for goods is sales tax). And there's heavy charges added to certain goods, such as cars.

      Yet, we:

      If taxation is bad, how come Denmark is such a great place to be?

    3. Re:and a bigger why.... by Dun+Malg · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In my experience, the government tends to handle resources at least as well as private corporations. It's just that failure to do so is often more obvious when it's the government (exceptions exist, such as the current meltdown). Prominent examples include health care, energy, public transport, banks, pretty much all manufacturing industries.

      Seriously, it's ridiculous how poorly most "free market" corporations handle their affairs, and how corrupt they are. This whole "government is evil, free market is good" idea just doesn't work if you look at the actual reality.

      You're missing the point. The problem isn't that government is especially inefficient. The problem is that there is no economic pressure on the government to improve the product. Computers are a good example. An IBM PC cost about $5000 in 1981 when it was released. Today you can get a laptop that far exceeds the original PC for 1/10 that price, and that doesn't even account for inflation. The market exerted pressure to improve the product. They're not made in the US anymore, and they aren't made of armor-plate steel like the old PC, but that's not what makes a computer useful. If it were the government making PCs, we'd probably have 386's about now, still in the same heavy case, and still costing $5000. Keeping the cost at $5000 despite inflation would be hailed as a hallmark of "business-grade efficiency", but you can plainly see it would really be a dismal failure to innovate. Things the government does just don't improve like market-driven things do. The government is just as inefficient as business, but it continues to back the same horses forever, no matter how much they lose. In this day when soldiers are issued polypropylene long underwear and polyester fleece jackets, we still have wool subsidies based on the value of wool as a resource for national defense! I won't even start on the repeated bailouts of various domestic auto manufacturers...

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    4. Re:and a bigger why.... by Dun+Malg · · Score: 3, Insightful

      poverty rate is about 12.5% One in 8 people in the US live in poverty. That is bad for a developed nation, worse than Thailand for instance.

      I agree with the incarceration stats, but the poverty stat is misleading. "Poverty" in the US isn't what it is in Thailand. Eligibility for government assistance is determined by income level, which determines "poverty". Many impoverished people are receiving food, rent, and utility subsidies, which allow them to have food, housing, heat, and electricity on the cheap which frees up their "poverty" wages for things like satellite TV and overpriced used cars. They watch 300 channels of color TV every night, while impoverished people in Thailand are living in cardboard boxes and picking through garbage dumps looking for recyclables to trade in for food money. When you start judging poverty by the percentage of people living in squalor and picking through garbage cans to survive, the US is much better than Thailand.

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.