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Microsoft Knew About Xbox 360 Damaging Discs
Kelly writes "An unsealed document in a Washington lawsuit filed last week at Seattle, Microsoft was well aware that the Xbox 360 was prone to damaging game discs even before the console was introduced in November 2005. Microsoft had three solutions for solving the issue, but all three solutions were rejected due to technical concerns or on the basis of cost. Microsoft settled on a cost-free fourth solution: a warning was added to Xbox 360 manual, which essentially placed the blame on users instead of the hardware." The scratching-disks problem was mentioned a few years back, too. I wonder whether more people would prefer a slight discount on the price of a console to the ability to reorient it while a disk was playing inside.
The motion says that Microsoft knew that when the Xbox 360 was reoriented with a disc playing inside, the disc could be damaged.
I gotta side with Microsoft on this one.
An xbox 360 is not something you pop a battery and headphones into and take jogging. If Microsoft can be sued over this, who's to say that they couldn't go after every other stationary tray-loading spinning-disc-player manufacturer? Sony, Dell, Philips, NEC, you're next! Even laptop(remember, laptops are designed to be portable) owners wouldn't tilt theirs 90 degrees sideways while spinning a disc.
a warning was added to Xbox 360 manual, which essentially placed the blame on users instead of the hardware."
No. Vista's UAC is shifting blame on the user. The warning in the manual is merely a well-intentioned courtesy reminder which calls into question the perceived intelligence and common sense of its users. They might as well have included a warning like, "Do not drop into bathtub".
If you don't like the way your 360 sits then put down the pizza slice, wipe the snauce off of your fingers, properly shut down the console, carefully reorient it as desired, then power it back on and resume gaming. I know it takes a few more seconds than just toppling it over with one hand while Gearing-of-War wtih the other, but the extra effort will be worth it. Trust me on this one.
Fixed that for /.
Whether or not there is some sort of god, I'm not supposed to say/god is a word and the argument ends there-Smog
Generally I'm not a fan of slot-loading CD drives, but I think Nintendo got it right in this case. The slot-loader is gentle on the disc, works in multiple orientations, and is easy for even kids to use without damaging the system. IMHO, the 360 would have done well to also design around a slot-loader, especially given their desire to place the system in a vertical configuration. The Wii is a very inexpensive system, so I don't see such a solution adding much cost.
(Then again, what do I know? Microsoft did try to cut corners wherever possible to create the system as cheap as possible.)
Of course, Sony managed to get a tray system working without scratching disks. And the system can be placed in a vertical configuration. (Does anyone actually do that?) I can only guess that Sony's solution was one of the "more expensive" ideas that Microsoft rejected.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Step 1: Sell discs.
Step 2: Pay lawmakers to make it illegal to copy discs.
Step 3: Make a machine that damages discs, forcing users to buy replacement discs.
Step 4: Profit!
Fricking seedy. If I'm buying the media, I should be able to do whatever the hell I want with it. If I'm buying the data, they should replace the media for free. They can't have it both ways.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
Apparently a $0.50 component would have sorted out all these problems... I'm aware that after a lot of sales this translates into profit, but seriously... this is a very short-sighted corner to cut.
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It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
I have problems with my 360 damaging discs just through normal use. I never shift the console in general, let along while a disc is in it. It seems more like the unit is unable to hold the disc completely stable while reading it at times, so you end up with damage.
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An xbox 360 is not something you pop a battery and headphones into and take jogging. If Microsoft can be sued over this, who's to say that they couldn't go after every other stationary tray-loading spinning-disc-player manufacturer? Sony, Dell, Philips, NEC, you're next! Even laptop(remember, laptops are designed to be portable) owners wouldn't tilt theirs 90 degrees sideways while spinning a disc.
But laptops are also designed to suspend when you close a lid - and I hate to break it to you but there are plenty of times I have shifted a laptop around substantially while burning a disc. Usually that worked out just fine.
Furthermore, laptop users hardly ever even use discs - either you use it once to load software, or you are burning a disc where the cost of failure is that you have to burn another $0.10 disc. Not quite the same as having a console where failure means you are out $60... and you almost always have a disc in the drive even if you are often doing things on Live instead of playing the game disc you have inserted.
The 360 is, like it or not, a consumer electronic device - and that means it needs to be robust, to where almost no use of it outside the extremes can cause failure. Simply moving a console while it's on is not that extreme, nor if you look at a lot of people's gaming setups is it even that uncommon. Blaming users for thinking it's a device like others they are used to instead of a delicate piece of computer equipment that will brook no touching while in operation, is an absurd accusation.
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This is plain bullshit.
Any modern tray loading CD drive clamps the disc between the spindle and a bearing in the top of the case. This disc is suspended several millimeters away from any solid surface. Short of creating enormous G-force on the disc by rotating the drive at a high level of acceleration, the worst you would expect from your average cheap-ass tray loading drive is to scratch the very outer edge of the disc where there isn't any data anyway. People with CD/DVD drives mounted in external USB cases move them around with discs in them all the time, and those drives weren't even designed with portable mounting in mind. When making a toy that is likely to be used by children who will knock it over, it doesn't seem unreasonable that Microsoft would include something along the level of the bottom end of the reliability spectrum rather than establishing a new low.
The only reason people are defending Microsoft on this is because they love their XBox, and they feel an irrational need to defend it in public lest it lose market share to a competitor's console.
Now to add to this, I have yet another reason not to ever buy one. And I'll print out a copy of the page and attach it to the wall in my son's room. He's not going to like it but thats the breaks.
You can find any number of reasons to justify or not justify a purchase of an Xbox 360. If you can't afford it, then sure, those are the breaks. That's one thing all kids have to come to terms with. But it sounds like you're trying to clutch for something else to give as a reason, because you simply don't want this hardware product in your house.
Unfortunately the PC games market is in a major decline, the wii is a gimmick, and the PS3 is a stark disappointment. If your son is going to play modern console games, and interact socially with his peers on that level, not to mention play online with them, he's going to want this console - and it won't be about the hardware, it will be about the titles.
Due to their incredible screwups, MS offer a reasonable out of the box warranty with 360s. The hardware is not a concern. If you son treats it like crap, that's his bag. If you can't afford it, man up and say so. If you simply don't want to buy him one, let him know that. Maybe he'll think you're being an ass. I'm not sure you're not, seems like a valid opinion to me. Honesty will bear you out, though.
The documents only state the MS knew that moving or re-orienting an Xbox 360 while it was operating may scratch the disc. As for claims that the Xbox scratches discs while stable and vertical (while it may be true) does not apply to these specific documents.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
I can't believe that I'm seeing people here blame end users for this problem.
Consumers are now acting more like battered wives than ever before. Blame yourself - you are the problem...it can't possibly be the manufacturer's fault.
My car has a DVD player that CONSTANTLY moves around while it is playing - rough roads, fast corners, hard braking - the works.....and guess what - it has never scratched a disc - EVER.
Why can't one of the richest technology companies in the world figure out what cut-rate Chinese electronics manufacturers figured out years ago?
-ted
I borrowed a friend's xbox360 when they first came out and rented Project Gotham Racing. While playing the controller caused the console to move a bit (maybe 1/2 inch) and we heard a nasty noise and the game crashed. Upon removing the disc, we found it to be scratched beyond usefulness.
Since then I have dropped my ps2 from the case it sits in with no ill effects to the disk within. I have purchased a ps3 as well and have had no such problems with it. Needless to say, I did not purchase an xbox360 because of this, although i did have to buy the Project Gotham Game due to damage.
Combine this with the fact that EVERY one of my friends 360s die about once a year, how could MS be making money on this thing?
If manufacturers are going to treat customers as beta testers, and hide from them when the product fails, there are only two recourses, and I recommend both: stop buying the company's product, and file a class-action lawsuit.
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