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Console Makers Pushing For More Network Reliance

There's a story on Joystiq about the convergence of games consoles and network play, suggesting that the industry is slowly moving away from physical media, preferring the control and simplicity of online distribution. The article points out that Microsoft's Games for Windows Live, despite being relatively unpopular, has seen continued development with an eye toward interacting with Xbox Live. Quoting: "While it's unlikely that the next generation of consoles will completely forgo disc-based media, downloads are quickly becoming a much bigger part of the experience. Some games, such as Rock Band 2 and Gears of War 2, are now shipping with codes for free downloads. This isn't because the publishers like you and want to give you free stuff. It's part of a larger strategy to increase the importance of the online presence, where content can be tightly controlled and decrease the importance of physical media, and thus, used-game sales and rentals."

41 of 198 comments (clear)

  1. Arrrr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Plus, any online connection forces you to have a legal purchased copy. But that's not part of it at all :)

    1. Re:Arrrr by rsmith-mac · · Score: 2, Informative

      Only if you're Sony or Microsoft at this point. Nintendo seems unable to detect or unwilling to ban people loading copied games.

    2. Re:Arrrr by Thanshin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > Plus, any online connection forces you to have a legal purchased copy.

      Or a pirated server on the near-by PC.

      Let's go on with the arms race. We'll see if the result pleases them.

    3. Re:Arrrr by FourthAge · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But then, the value of a network is related to the number of people on it.

      You could pirate, say, Left4dead and then play it by yourself or with other pirates. But you can't take your pirated copy and play with everybody else; the legitimate network is closed to you. Your experience of the game is not as good, because there are fewer players. So there is a good reason to pay up: the game is better if you do!

      --
      The tao of democracy: the government you can vote for is not the real government.
    4. Re:Arrrr by zehaeva · · Score: 4, Insightful

      isn't it the position off the game companies that their games are pirated so much that they are loosing most of their sales to pirates? wouldn't that mean the pirate community is larger than the legitimate community? wouldn't that mean you could conceivably have a larger network of people on the pirated version? this applies more to the pc versions of games atm i suppose.

    5. Re:Arrrr by Thanshin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You can join a pirated server with thousands of players. How many more do you need to play a four players game?

      Your reasoning only really applies to MMORPGs and yet some people play in WOW pirated servers.

    6. Re:Arrrr by sleeponthemic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Exactly. The most stringent DRM and basically, the least complained about form, too. It's a very smart setup and I don't think if I were a game maker, I'd be making anything less than a network emphasised game.

      --
      I record my sleeptalking
    7. Re:Arrrr by MBGMorden · · Score: 2, Informative

      IIRC, most console makers can detect consoles modified to play pirated games and ban them from their online networks anyways (I know MS did this with the original X-Box). In that case pirated games currently are only good for single player or at best pirate server play anyways. This wouldn't change that.

      My only concern in the whole matter would be: all my game now rest on a single hard drive. A single, fragile hard drive. The things that fail with an alarming frequency compared to optical discs. How do I go about getting all that replaced if the hard drive fails? If there's DRM involved, then backups wouldn't be possible.

      Also, consider the longevity: I have Atari and NES cartridges over 20 years old now, and they still work fine. Somehow I don't see a hard drive full a games working a few decades later.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    8. Re:Arrrr by Thanshin · · Score: 2, Informative

      1 - I make a cracked server app and release it in public domain.
      2 - Someone unrelated to you or me runs the app in a public server and releases the IP to a semi-public list of cracked servers.
      3 - You pay 20$ to have your console cracked, or directly buy it cracked for +15$.
      4 - You download the list and connect to the servers.

      The point is:

      IF 5 - They push harder and make intrusive systems.
      6 - More people make the effort of joining the pirate network.
      7 - More people get involved and add their effort. For example an app that reunites the cracked servers IPs and keeps the lists up to date or a worm that infects machines and installs a distributed cracked server or whatever else.
      8 - The pirate network becomes easier to use so less geeky people join.

    9. Re:Arrrr by Zironic · · Score: 3, Informative

      You seem to be very confused about how cracking the 360 works.

      The way the anti-piracy works is that they burn the game dvd's in a way that can't be done by a home burner and then they tell the dvd drive in the xbox to check for those signs of it being burned by a real burner.

      The crackers get past this by installing new custom firmware on the dvd reader that tells the console that the dvd was industrially burned regardless if it is or not.

      The reason some people get banned from live is that the live server sometimes asks questions regarding the data on the dvd and badly made copies sometimes have missing/bad data.

      The new firmware you speak off isn't actually new firmware, it's a new dvd drive all together that apparently uses millitary technology to make the firmware tamper proof, the current work around is to just install another dvd reader and I suspect the anti-tamper itself will be cracked eventually.

      The game console itself is never involved in this piracy war,, it's all waged in the dvd firmware.

    10. Re:Arrrr by MooseMuffin · · Score: 2, Informative

      This isn't exactly accurate. Buying something like rockband songs or using the gears 2 download code ties the content to your xbox live login. If your xbox dies (not exactly unlikely) and you get a new one, logging in enables you to re-download all that stuff.

      Your point still stands however, since 20 years from now xbox live probably won't exist in its current form and you wouldn't be able to re-download anything that you lost.

    11. Re:Arrrr by Fallingcow · · Score: 2, Informative

      I've found that Versus play gives the game way, way more longevity. It's just about the only thing I play now.

      But yeah, they probably needed at least 2 more regular campaigns and 2 more versus campaigns at launch. Sure, it's already got 20 actual maps, which is quite a few for a multiplayer-only game (how many does TF2 ship with?) but this particular game needs more.

      Judging from what Valve's said and what they've done with past games, I expect significant free content releases for the game over the next couple of years, so there's that. The real savior of the game, IMO, will be the release the map editor. When that happens, there'll be dozens of new maps and play modes coming out every month.

  2. Preferring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    the control and simplicity of online distribution.
    control and simplicity of online distribution.
    control and simplicity
    control

  3. Makes Sense by johnsie · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why waste money producing cd's, dvds or whatever when you can sell it online and make a bigger profit. I hardly ever buy physical games or software for my PC, why should it be any different on a console?

    1. Re:Makes Sense by Roland+Piquepaille · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I hardly ever buy physical games or software for my PC

      Most people don't either, but because they work standalone, they can get away with it. The whole "online services" thing software companies are trying to ram down people's throats these days (online OSes, word processing, spreadsheets, games...) is just so they can wrestle control of the software from people's hands and charge whatever the hell they want for anything.

      So in short, you'd better not hope software on CDs and DVDs disappears, because you'll be very sad if it happens.

    2. Re:Makes Sense by bigman2003 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So if you had access to all of today's technology, and you were designing a software distribution mechanism....

      You would put the software on little plastic disks that can't be updated after they are written...
      Put those disks in expensive packaging.
      Put those disks on consignment with a company that will truck/fly those disks around the country.
      To other companies that will put the disks on shelves in stores where consumers can buy them (during business hours).

      That doesn't seem very efficient.

      --
      No reason to lie.
    3. Re:Makes Sense by rolfwind · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not the physical waste, it's power.

      When you sell directly to the customer, you don't have to deal with Walmart/Target/etc who will take a cut of the action, and bend you over when they feel like it. Of course, in this case "you" being Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft who set up the central gateways - it's they who won't have to deal with Walmart/Target as much. The developer still will have to deal with those three. Reminds me of the high cost of cartridges, especially with Nintendo being the only one making them for their console.

      ATM, only PCs and Flash games put the power in the developer's hands.

    4. Re:Makes Sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You know, you're right. Downloads are more efficient.

      While we're at it, markets aren't efficient either. Some people might be willing to pay MORE for a product, but due to everyone buying a game for the retail price, our company Looses all that extra money that the person would have been willing to pay (Consumer Surplus). Lets Find some strategy(Price Discrimination) by which we can get all this money! Then we can drive everyone in the primary AND secondary markets out of business, or buy them.(Monopoly)

    5. Re:Makes Sense by theaveng · · Score: 2, Interesting

      >>>I hardly ever buy physical games

      And what happens when you decide "Well this game sucks. I think I'll sell it on ebay to recoup some of my waste money"? Ooops. Nothing to sell. I rarely keep the games I buy since, as Isaac Asimov wisely observed, only 1% of anything is truly good. The other 99% I play, don't like, and then sell online.

      I can't do that with virtual media.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    6. Re:Makes Sense by MasterOfMagic · · Score: 4, Informative

      I agree with everything you've said, but I have a slight pedantic nitpick.

      Nintendo of America was the only one to produce cartridges for the North American market (not counting unlicensed games). In Japan, several development houses made their own cartridges, and the Famicom Disk System required only a special floppy drive to publish games. NoA adopted this business strategy because they wanted control over what cartridges were published while still encouraging third-party development houses. They felt that uncontrolled development and publication of sub-par third-party games was a major cause of the Video Game Crash of 1983, and wanted to avoid having a second video game crash.

      This hit Konami hard - Nintendo of America's guidelines were to only allow five releases per developer in a calendar year, so in order to publish all of the games that they wanted to market in America, they had to start up an American subsidiary called Ultra Games.

    7. Re:Makes Sense by Duradin · · Score: 2, Funny

      Tell me Mr. Anderson, what good is a Game Stop if you don't have physical media to sell them?

    8. Re:Makes Sense by Garrett+Fox · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Nintendo did even more to control what games were released than that. As told in the book "Game Over," a history of Nintendo, Nintendo developed a hardware/software system called 10NES so that only cartridges with a patented key chip would run in a NES console. Since only Nintendo could make the key, no one could make a working Nintendo game without permission. This system let them both take a cut of every third-party game's profits, and exercise some quality control to prevent another 1983-style crash.

      In theory. Unlicensed companies found ways around the 10NES system, including overloading the lock chip with a voltage spike. Tengen apparently illegally got access to a hidden part of the key design and reverse-engineered it to make their own key-chip, codenamed "Rabbit." (The Wikipedia article quotes an interview that downplays the accusation of theft.) Tengen then went on to produce unlicensed versions of Tetris and Gauntlet. So, even having control over the hardware doesn't give a company full control over how it's used.

      By the way, let's not assume that the only options for the game industry are DRM-heavy online distribution and the traditional retail consignment/sale method. My favorite option as a buyer would be to have a DVD mailed to me directly from the maker. They get the profit, I get a physical object that'll work without their future permission.

      --
      Revive the Constitution.
  4. My argument against this by erroneus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Let's have a look at the current broadband availability here and everywhere. Now let's compare that to the people who have these consoles. My guess is that there will be plenty of people that will be left out in all of this. This move obviously presumes nearly 100% broadband availability. That can't be smart.

    1. Re:My argument against this by Roland+Piquepaille · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because you thought "pushing for more network reliance" is a user-oriented wish? How quaint.

      Console makers wouldn't mind it if only 1/3rd of the population had access to their online games, if said 1/3rd has to pay and pay to play. They don't care about providing service to the other 2/3rd, they only care about their bottom line.

    2. Re:My argument against this by Meumeu · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Console makers wouldn't mind it if only 1/3rd of the population had access to their online games, if said 1/3rd has to pay and pay to play. They don't care about providing service to the other 2/3rd, they only care about their bottom line.

      Uh ? Telling two thirds of your customers to screw themselves doesn't look like a reasonable business decision...

    3. Re:My argument against this by Starayo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Might work in the US and other countries with good net, but it would be a stupid decision here in Australia. I mean, the average broadband plan would probably have maybe 4GB of usage. I'm paying a bundle for 40GB a month.

      Unless of course they got the ISPs to host the data unmetered...

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  5. No thanks by Rik+Sweeney · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've bought a couple of games on the PSN recently and now that I'm done with them, what can I do? Here are my choices:

    1. Leave it to fester on the HDD
    2. Delete it

    Great. What's worse is that a couple of the games I bought turned out to be shit so I can't even trade them for something different.

    Make a subscription service instead if you're going to do this. Here's one way it could work:

    You pay a certain amount each year and the amount you pay determines how many games you can have downloaded at a time and each game have a number of points allocated to it, so you could for example have Braid (1 point) and Bionic Commando (1 point) and Geometry Wars (1 point) or just BioShock (3 points).

    When you're done with the games you can delete them to refund the points.

    Good idea? Bad idea?

    1. Re:No thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you cannot really buy a game, then it should be called rental service, and that's it. What can be seen currently is that vendors try to keep the client to think he buys the game, while the cut his rights to effectively change it to rent.

    2. Re:No thanks by theaveng · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yep. If you buy a crap game, but can not sell it on ebay to recover your money, then you never truly owned that game. You were just granted a perpetual rental.

      With Cartridge, CD, and DVD games, at least you have something you can physically trade or sell. You OWN it. This past year I've sold off about $4000 worth of my N64, PS1, PS2 game collection. Now imagine if that had been downloaded material instead; I'd be $4000 poorer.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
  6. DLC is online activation for consoles by El_Muerte_TDS · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just like the activation servers for PC games will disappear in the future, and thereby rendering your game useless, DLC will disappear in the future, and thereby render your console game crippled.

    Requiring online activation/DLC actually means you rent the game, rather than buying it. If you want to replay an old game in the future you probably have to rent the remake of it.

    1. Re:DLC is online activation for consoles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've been saying this all along.

      Combined with the game makers pushing online features so hard with games means that a game is really only playable for a couple of months to a year.

      That's why I have no interest in the current generation of consoles. 60, 70, 80$ games that you don't get to actually play once all the hype around the game dies down? A console that will surely max out my ISP's invisible bandwidth cap? No thank you.

  7. "we don's show a record..." by shadowimmage · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Just wait, The day will come when a great game will be made that everyone will want to play, and the company will 'have no record' of you ever purchasing the game, and make you pay again. And what if someone goes to their summer house, or loses their network connection for a day/week, what will those people do if their machines can't 'verify' the game?? Games need to stay on physical media that can speak to the console for itself, so that everyone can play without worrying about losing their legitimate access. And, where would distribution companies keep information? Your credit card that you used to purchase the game? What if you changed cards? In your account? What if you forgot your account, or it was lost or deleted? What if your hardware to store game purchase info was destroyed/lost/failed, and the information that verified that you were you was there? What I'm saying, is that with a DVD, someone can lose it, but that's their fault. They don't have to worry about any of the scenarios above because they have the physical media and case to prove that they OWN the game. And I totally support trade/sales of used games. What if you had a friend who wanted to borrow a game? You can't just FTP your game to them and have that work...

  8. They're listening to their audience. by sortius_nod · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The only game I bought recently was Fable II on the 360, because I had to. Most of the games I buy for my PC are either via Steam, or other methods (I play LOTRO, the latest expansion was just me paying the upgrade fee and download). I don't see why consoles seem to see the need to lag behind. Sure I copy games for my console, mainly due to the price (AU$100+ for a new release) and also from the lack of ease of buying online.

    I used to copy PC games, now I'm happy with a demo and digital delivery. I think the PC market has wised up to the way things ought to be. I bought Far Cry II days after it came out for 1/2 the price of the shops here in Australia. Even if price wasn't an issue, you have to pre-order, wait in line, all that kind of useless crap to say "I got a first copy". Why not give people the option of post-to with digital stop-gap a-la Warhammer Online (yes, I bought this from Amazon).

    Even that seems smarter than this whole "you need to own the disc to own a license to our product" crap.

    I say good on them, the more digital delivery, the more economical high volume high speed broadband (whatever the flavour) will become. The more music, movies & games delivered this way the better. It will force the hand that controls your packets.

  9. Its always nice to have a hard copy by Viol8 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Or at least a backup. If the download price is the same as the CD/DVD price then why not buy the latter because then you don't have to bother making a backup yourself? And thats assuming the console will allow you to make a backup in the first place and if it does whether than backup will run anyway. The way DRM is going I doubt it would.

  10. preferring the control and simplicity of online by theaveng · · Score: 4, Insightful

    TRANSLATION:

    Blocking me from my two favorite activities: (1) Buying a game, playing it, and then selling to someone else to recoup my money. And (2) Buying a game, loving it, and keeping it for the next 10-20 years (classic gaming).

    If things devolve to the point where I have to pay full price (versus my current average of only paying $2-3 per game), or where I have to keep buying/downloading Super Mario 64 every five years, instead of simply buying it once and keeping it forever... ...then I will simply stop gaming.

    This is what the music industry is trying to do with perpetual renting of music rather than letting us OWN the record, cd, whatever. The game industry should not follow that same path.

    --
    FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
  11. They are LYING. by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They want internet connected and online distribution for two main reasons.

    1 - it instantly KILLS the secondhand game market. you can no longer buy used games, this drives the price of old games back up to retail levels. no more buying Gears of War for $12.99 used at the local EB or on ebay.

    2 - it eliminates 60% of the cost of a game. Packaging and distribution.

    Game prices will stay the same or go up, your Quality of gaming will go down, and you can no longer buy used games or rent games to try them out.

    That is their goal, everything else is pure BS to make the consumer have buy-in to their plans to screw you over.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:They are LYING. by Jedi+Alec · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're forgetting another very important reason: game companies can keep up the good old "release first, make it actually work later" schedule. I haven't bought a single game this past year where the final conclusion was: "ok, it's fun to play but buggy, let's put it on the shelf till they can be bothered to patch it". Fallout 3, Mass Effect, Civ4Col, all the same thing.

      --

      People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
  12. Re:Consoles with Internet Access by theaveng · · Score: 2, Interesting

    >>>this is not an issue and never has been.

    I have several online games that no longer work because the servers no longer exist.

    --
    FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
  13. Re:Sure win on both counts by Chaos+Incarnate · · Score: 2

    Umm... most iTunes music is now DRM-free as well these days.

    --
    Benford's Corollary to Clarke's Law: "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
  14. And you can't sell that game used by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Informative

    It has long been the dream of the media studios to kill the secondary (used) market for media (music, movies, software, etc.). Now they've finally stumbled upon the perfect solution (ironic that they actually *fought* the idea tooth-and-nail back in the Napster days).

    A sad thing for me, too. I buy most of my console games used at a huge discount online. All you have to do is wait a few months after release and you can get most used games for a fraction of their retail price.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  15. Channeling Companese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Looses has a specific meaning in the Companese language that I didn't want to lose in the original text. We don't want to Loose (Allow to act in an uninhibited fashion) any money, we want that Consumer Surplus Captured!

    On a lighter note, did you know you can be replaced with a shell script?