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How To Create More Jobs

TechDirt is spotlighting a call by Michael S. Malone, a columnist for ABCNews.com, for letting Silicon Valley create jobs once more. Malone argues that Sarbanes-Oxley and other attempts at accounting reform have done little to prevent fraud, but in fact have managed to kill off an entrepreneurship-venture capital-IPO cycle, centered in Silicon Valley, that has taken 30 years to nourish. Here's TechDirt: "...it's time to roll back SarbOx and other accounting rules that have acted more for theatrical purposes rather than any legitimate reason. Basically, all they've done is create new reporting requirements that do little to nothing to either prevent fraud or clarify a company's actual financial position (its intended purpose). I'm all for radical transparency in financial info, but that's not what has been done. Instead, we've made it burdensome to actually grow a company — and that doesn't help create jobs. It helps kill them."

368 comments

  1. Bypass the VCs and Code by alain94040 · · Score: 4, Informative

    As I said in a previous comment, the current model of entrepreneurship is broken. VCs have left. In 2009, capital will be really hard to find. But there is a silver lining: capital is no longer necessary to start companies.

    Again, fairsoftware.net among others is allowing people who don't have any money and don't have any VC buddies to start businesses together.

    It will work because for software at least, a few smart developers can beat established software giants. Groundbreaking software can now be built quickly and cheaply by reusing a lot of existing code. You can thank the Open Source community's efforts for that.

    I have a lot of respect for Mike Malone, the author of the article. He wrote one of my favorite books: "Going Public: Mips and the Entrepeneurial Dream". If you have any ounce of entrepreneurship in you, this book will reveal it. I'm sure it started vocations. But in today's piece, I disagree that Sarbanes-Oxley is the main problem, although it did reduce the number of IPOs.

    The best advice I ever received for starting a company? Drop Powerpoint and your VC pitch. Write code instead.

    1. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by Slashdotvagina · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But there is a silver lining: capital is no longer necessary to start companies.

      That's very true for software-based businesses. However, imagine someone with a great idea for a new type of processor that wants to compete with Intel. There's a LOT of capital required for manufacturing-based businesses in order to do proper R&D, establish factories, and so on... assuming the concept is so radically different that it can't be outsourced to existing fabrication plants.

      --
      Advertising that I'm a girl on Slashdot since 2008.
    2. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by lpangelrob · · Score: 1

      Agree. I can't wait to see where World of Goo goes, a game better than most in 2008 made by a team of... 3.

      My wife's the accountant, so I can't comment about Sarbanes-Oxley myself.

    3. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Given that your home page is http://www.fairsoftware.net/ do you have an association with the company? If you do, can I trust your comment that "the current model of entrepreneurship is broken", or is that what you believe based on your need to see your new company succeed? No, I'm not alleging any nefarious motives on your part. I'm sure you genuinely believe what you wrote and am asking whether your perception has been genuinely distorted due to a vested interest.

    4. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Advertising that I'm a girl on Slashdot since 2008.

      [citation needed]

    5. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by JAlexoi · · Score: 1

      Ever heard of natural monopolies? Probably a natural oligopoly is a better description for the processor(automobile, etc) market right now.

    6. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read the username.

    7. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by gregbot9000 · · Score: 1

      Or cars. I know this is /. which is IT heavy, but there are more industries then high tech.

    8. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by b4upoo · · Score: 1

      I will say that it seems to me that all businesses and individuals should be required to use one and only one system of accounting and that all business transactions should be visible to any person at all times.

    9. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by DiegoBravo · · Score: 1

      > The best advice I ever received for starting a company? Drop Powerpoint and your VC pitch. Write code instead.

      Well, in order to "start" a company, you just need to do a trivial bit of paperwork, and go shopping (office? computers? recruits?).

      The sad thing is that in order to maintain your company, you need a reasonable flux of money, and that's a difficult part for most people. Not everyone will be able (lucky/savvy/whatever) to create the new You-Tube, but everyone have to pay for rent, food, etc.

      So you need to make some calculations beforehand... yes, that silly phrase, a "business plan". And of course, *if* your business plan does allow you to develop the new killer app with your own savings (you replace the VC), then congratulations!

      But don't forget that most companies have to struggle for years with cash flow in order to get that "killer app" really thriving in the market, and many never archive that target, just remain satisfied with a steady growing revenue.

    10. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by tknd · · Score: 2, Informative

      Going by his account name it appears that he's likely the CEO. On the Company page you can see the details. My guess is he will certainly have a bias.

    11. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by alain94040 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Correct on all counts. Now, as to bias, it's a chicken and egg problem: am I pretending there is a problem with funding startups because I started a company in that space, or did I believe there was a problem and therefore started a company to fix it?

      VCs have a saying (that I really don't like because it sounds arrogant), but applicable here: "no conflict, no interest". It means that if you really were not biased and had no interest in a topic, then how could you possibly have an interesting opinion? I think it's a valid point.

      Transparency is the answer. I trust everyone to be smart enough to draw their own conclusions.

    12. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by GleeBot · · Score: 1

      That's very true for software-based businesses. However, imagine someone with a great idea for a new type of processor that wants to compete with Intel. There's a LOT of capital required for manufacturing-based businesses in order to do proper R&D, establish factories, and so on... assuming the concept is so radically different that it can't be outsourced to existing fabrication plants.

      It's highly unlikely a VC is going to bankroll that sort of idea. If it's a risky idea that requires a lot of money, the only place you're going to get that kind of money is from the government.

    13. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by jcr · · Score: 1

      There's no such thing as a "natural" monopoly. The term is nothing but propaganda used by mercantilists to justify government prohibition of competition.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    14. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by bsDaemon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There may not be any "natural" monopolies, but there are circumstances where allowing competition might create more problems than it actually solves. For instance, utilities.

      If you don't have one, government sanctioned, provider alone for things like telephone, water, etc, you will end up with a situation where multiple companies are pursuing leans for right-of-way, criss-crossing private and public property and duplicating infrastructure. While certain services such as telephones and power may be able to get by with multiple companies providing the service over one set of lines, and non-original providers leasing the use of the equipment. However, for obvious reasons, this doesn't exactly work well for water -- you can't packet-switch h20.

    15. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course THERE ARE NATURAL MONOPOLIES. All you need is an average cost curve declining across the total possible production curve. ALCOA was one example. Telecom is another. Microsoft is another.

      The term is not propaganda. The propoganda is that government prohibitions are necessary to restore a perfect competitive situation -- which is about as wrong-headed one can do. The laissez-faire option is the correct answer.

    16. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by CPE1704TKS · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but that's just about as disingenuous a statement as I've read in a long time.

      You most certainly have a conflict of interest in this situation. That means that we cannot take your facts and your statements at face value, because you could most certainly misrepresent the situation because you have something to gain, much like you misrepresented that simple saying that you presented above. The fact that you failed to even mention your association to the web site pretty much says everything I need to know about you.

    17. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by Eli+Gottlieb · · Score: 1

      And by "government prohibition of competition" I suppose you mean forcible breakup of monopolies?

    18. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by jcr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, I mean laws like those that prevented anyone from offering phone service in competition with AT&T (for one example).

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    19. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by jcr · · Score: 1

      I think we're not using the term the same way. Alcoa was a monopoly, but I wouldn't describe it as a "natural monopoly" just because it arose without legislation to prevent competition.

      When most people say "natural monopoly", they're claiming that the activity in question should be a monopoly (like, because it supposedly would be bad to have multiple sets of power lines running through a neighborhood.) That's idea I'm rejecting, not the fact that monopolies can occur even without a government to mandate them.

      Incidentally, although Alcoa had a monopoly on aluminum in the USA for a while, they still were in competition with other materials, so their prices declined steadily as their production costs fell.

      The laissez-faire option is the correct answer.

      On that, we agree.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    20. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by Spy+Hunter · · Score: 2

      Do you really believe roads are not a natural monopoly? I consider myself quite libertarian, but I do believe that certain infrastructure like roads, sewer, water, and wires (power and telecom) are natural monopolies. I do agree that the term is overused, however, and you have to be *extremely* careful about how you define the monopolies. For example telecom *services* are *not* a natural monopoly; today the service providers own the wires and it's a huge problem that shouldn't be obscured by calling telecom a "natural monopoly". Only the wires are a natural monopoly. It's easy to see this by analogy to roads and transportation services: the Department of Transportation has a natural monopoly on roads but the Postal Service should not and does not have a monopoly on transportation services, and as a result we have an abundance of competition in FedEx, UPS, etc resulting in reasonable prices.

      BTW, I definitely wouldn't agree with the AC below who claimed Microsoft is a natural monopoly. Microsoft is a monopoly created by copyright, which is itself a monopoly explicitly granted by the government and not "natural" at all.

      --
      main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
    21. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by mcrbids · · Score: 1

      While certain services such as telephones and power may be able to get by with multiple companies providing the service over one set of lines, and non-original providers leasing the use of the equipment. However, for obvious reasons, this doesn't exactly work well for water -- you can't packet-switch h20.

      WTF? Did I miss something fundamental? (reads again) Nope. WTF?

      Let us say that I own a big, long pipe, that I use to transport water (that I pump) from my well at one end, to customers at the other end. Billing is pretty simple, I know how much water I pumped, and how much water each customer used. The two numbers will be very, very similar. (different only by rounding error, etc)

      But now, you want to use my big, long pipe. 'Tis pretty simple, really. You note how much water you pump into the pipe, I note how much water I pump into the pipe.... how is this not "packet switching h2O"?

      Water can be "packet switched" in units as small as a single molecule!

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    22. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by jcr · · Score: 1

      Do you really believe roads are not a natural monopoly?

      No more so than land is. Most of the time, there's more that one route to get to wherever you're going.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    23. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Informative

      However, imagine someone with a great idea for a new type of processor that wants to compete with Intel

      No one with any sense will fund them. I talked to someone a couple of years ago who was a former Intel chief architect and considered this. He got VCs to offer him funding to the tune of several millions, but eventually decided his company wouldn't be able to compete and gave up on the idea.

      On the other hand, if you want to compete in the embedded processor market, you need a lot less capital. You can produce IP cores and sell them to the likes of Samsung or TI for integration, or you can contract out your manufacturing to companies like these, and maybe build some fabs once you've been in business for a few years and got a large enough chunk of the market for it to be worthwhile.

      If you come up with an improvement in manufacturing technology, you'd be better off patenting it and licensing it to people building fabs, but it's very unlikely now, since even small improvements tend to require several millions of dollars of R&D.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    24. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by DisKurzion · · Score: 1

      While certain services such as telephones and power may be able to get by with multiple companies providing the service over one set of lines, and non-original providers leasing the use of the equipment. However, for obvious reasons, this doesn't exactly work well for water -- you can't packet-switch h20.

      WTF? Did I miss something fundamental? (reads again) Nope. WTF?

      Let us say that I own a big, long pipe, that I use to transport water (that I pump) from my well at one end, to customers at the other end. Billing is pretty simple, I know how much water I pumped, and how much water each customer used. The two numbers will be very, very similar. (different only by rounding error, etc)

      But now, you want to use my big, long pipe. 'Tis pretty simple, really. You note how much water you pump into the pipe, I note how much water I pump into the pipe.... how is this not "packet switching h2O"?

      Water can be "packet switched" in units as small as a single molecule!

      Flawed arguement. Yes, your situation will work fine with only one customer. However, once you start adding additional customers, things get far more complicated.

      Suppose you have a small town. There are 30 houses on the east side, and 60 houses on the west side. There are two water providers for this town, which any resident can choose from. Provider A is on the east side, Provider B is on the west side. Each supplier provides water for 15 houses on the east, and 30 on the west.

      All the houses with provider A use 100 gallons a month. All the houses with provider B use 70 gallons a month. Now, you are right in that billing is simple, due to water meters. But now for the real questions:

      How do you know that company A's customers are not using primarily B's water? If company A pumped 2000 gallons into the system, and company B pumped over 5000 (likely, as the larger drop in pressure will occur closer to B's facility), how do the two companies resolve this difference in supply? Simple calculations and sharing of information right? What happens if there are 5 or more providers in one area? The system will become insanely complicated.

      What if a pipe breaks on a street where there are customers from both companies? Who is responsible for fixing it?

      If company A owns all the pipe, and the others lease from them, what can be done about company A underselling the water (thus getting more customers) and covering the costs with the leases? (Notice that this is a problem with current internet services)

      What if the water supply becomes tainted? You've just doubled your investigation time and costs for every additional company providing water.

      Sure, these problems could all be worked out. But I can guarantee that water prices would go up as a result.

    25. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by DisKurzion · · Score: 1

      Do you really believe roads are not a natural monopoly?

      No more so than land is. Most of the time, there's more that one route to get to wherever you're going.

      -jcr

      True, there is more than one route to where you are going. There are planes and trains. As such, there is not a monopoly on transportation.

      But roads are a natural monopoly. It requires co-ordination to prevent traffic jams due to construction (what if every provider for Philadelphia decided to repair their roads at the same time...practically shutting down half of the city's traffic).

    26. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by ckaminski · · Score: 1

      Transmeta.

      nuff said.

    27. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by jcr · · Score: 1

      Two points: 1) privately owned roads would be a capital asset, and it would be worthwhile to spend the money on better construction, making repairs less frequent, and 2) coordination doesn't require monopoly.

      BTW, Reason TV did a very interesting story on privatizing highways.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    28. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by Slashdotvagina · · Score: 1

      No one with any sense will fund them.

      Quantum computing is getting a fair bit of funding. D-Wave, as the primary example, raised $44 million from various sources. I agree with you if someone wanted to start up another AMD to build Intel clones... that's 100% crazy. But for someone with a new type of processor (like quantum ones) that have an amazing amount of (theoretical) potential, it's worth the risk given the potential upside.

      --
      Advertising that I'm a girl on Slashdot since 2008.
    29. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "Let us say that I own a big, long pipe, that I use to transport water (that I pump) from my well at one end, to customers at the other end. Billing is pretty simple, I know how much water I pumped, and how much water each customer used. The two numbers will be very, very similar. (different only by rounding error, etc)"

      That might work well for rural areas, but, certainly not cities where you can't be digging up streets willy-nilly, and cutting across peoples' yards digging them up, tearing fences down, messing up lawns and landscaping....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    30. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "I will say that it seems to me that all businesses and individuals should be required to use one and only one system of accounting and that all business transactions should be visible to any person at all times."

      To do that successfully, you'd have to toss out the current tax system, and come back with one greatly simplified with no loopholes and very few if any deductions. That's why there is so much financial shuffle in businesses...in order to try to take advantage of every tax loophole and break that there is. Everyone wants to keep as much of their money from the tax man they can....individuals and businesses alike.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    31. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by v(*_*)vvvv · · Score: 1

      Sure, these problems could all be worked out.

      Right. So you admit you can do it. The previous is only arguing to that extent, as you seem to deny it is possible in your first post.

      But I can guarantee that water prices would go up as a result.

      Right. Except competition will also bring the price down.

    32. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by Spy+Hunter · · Score: 1

      there's more that one route to get to wherever you're going

      Not at the beginning and end of your journey. In the middle you can choose between different long-haul options, but in the "last mile" of the network (roads or pipes or wires) it just doesn't make sense to have multiple competing providers. For wires and pipes it's possible though inefficient, but for roads it's just plain impossible to have multiple networks serving every location. How would the market solve the "last mile" problem?

      --
      main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
    33. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by o2sd · · Score: 1

      There's no such thing as a "natural" monopoly. The term is nothing but propaganda used by mercantilists to justify government prohibition of competition.

      Sorry, but I disagree. There are a very small number "natural" monopolies, and as far as I know they all centre around geography.

      Geographic restraints form natural barriers to entry. For example, it is presently more expensive to build an elevated road than to build one that sits on the ground, hence there tends to be a natural monopoly in roads, and because of this restriction, our society has decided to pool our resources (taxes) so that the Government builds the majority of roads, thus preventing a single corporate entity from taking advantage of a very important resource.

      Other "natural" monopolies or oligopolies are also based on geography, such as minibuses in Hong Kong, gas pipes in the ground, electricity and telecommunications, in which it is expensive to build the infrastructure, and the profit margin is such that only one company can survive. There are solutions to these monopolies, but not market solutions.

      Consumer CPUs on the other hand are NOT a natural monopoly, but the business has VERY high barriers to entry. Current optics equipment required for 70nm lithography results in the setup cost of a new fabricating plant at just under 1 billion dollars, not to mention the RnD costs of developing the chip itself. No one wants to take this kind of risk to invest in a company who would then compete with 2 ferocious, well established incumbents.

      To break this kind of monopoly/oligopoly, once would need to develop a completely different way to fabricate fast CPUs without lithography, or alternatively, develop a way to manufacture precision optics much more cheaply. Personally I believe that this is an inevitability. So for now the CPU business is a temporary natural monopoly, defined by the high barrier to entry (cost of the fabrication facilities and product development).

      Eventually, if the need is great enough, even geography and cost can be overcome, and so all 'natural monopolies' come with a temporal restriction. i.e. they wont be monopolies for time eternal, but they ARE natural monopolies right NOW.

      --
      - Nothing to see hear.
    34. Re:Bypass the VCs and Code by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      VCs have a saying (that I really don't like because it sounds arrogant), but applicable here: "no conflict, no interest". It means that if you really were not biased and had no interest in a topic, then how could you possibly have an interesting opinion? I think it's a valid point.

      That is just a weaselly way of saying that (1) you can't differentiate between being disinterested and uninterested in something, therefore (2) there is no difference, and so finally (3) discerning any sort of objective truth is impossible.

      I don't believe that to be the case.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  2. Huh? by iLLucionist · · Score: 5, Funny

    Why we need more Jobs? I think one instance is enough.

    1. Re:Huh? by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      Didn't you hear? He's dying, and Apple needs him.

    2. Re:Huh? by Thrakamazog · · Score: 1

      Does Netcraft confirm it?

    3. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah! what will the elves in their Cupertino workshop do after he's gone? They need Santa,er,Steve to guide their toy-making in the right direction. Frankly, Rudolph isn't up to the challenge and Tim Allen is unavailable.

    4. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once the AI Jobs goes away, all the nanomachines in the PMCs (Pro-Mac Consumers) that have been injected by Apple products will stop functioning and the PMCs will regain the ability to think for themselves....the game will change.

    5. Re:Huh? by noidentity · · Score: 1

      Why we need more Jobs? I think one instance is enough.

      Funny, I thought there were two.

    6. Re:Huh? by skeeto · · Score: 1

      And if something happens to it, the singleton will take care of instantiating a new one.

    7. Re:Huh? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      One can't produce a large enough RDF to fix the economy.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    8. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe we can clone him

    9. Re:Huh? by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      Depends on how much you get paid.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  3. SOX has created jobs, just sucky ones by Gothmolly · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It created a whole breed of IT "professionals", people who creep out of the woodwork and latch onto the latest buzzword-compliant, (typically) Government-sponsored/mandated thing, and ride it until the next one comes along.

    --
    I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
    1. Re:SOX has created jobs, just sucky ones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heh. That's always been the case with software development and marketing, and government procurement. It's just branching out a little.

    2. Re:SOX has created jobs, just sucky ones by loteck · · Score: 4, Insightful
      While I agree that this has happened to some extent, it describes what is happening at fly-by-night "audit firms" and other shady outfits far more than it does at the established accounting and consulting firms, who are drawing on staff that have long worked with projects involving government regulation and really have minimal need to create any kind of 'new breed'.

      What I don't get is how TFA can say:

      "have acted more for theatrical purposes rather than any legitimate reason. Basically, all they've done is create new reporting requirements that do little to nothing to either prevent fraud or clarify a company's actual financial position."

      There have always been audits. The effectiveness of audits to uncover fraud and clarify financial positions has never been questioned (unless the firm conducting the audit was corrupt). The only difference now with SOX is which companies are subject to audit. Saying that audits dont prevent fraud or provide clearer views of finances is a fairly absurd accusation.

      After all, these same companies are conducting similar audits during mergers and acquisitions. What's good for the goose...

    3. Re:SOX has created jobs, just sucky ones by besalope · · Score: 1

      IT? Hardly. SOX deals with accounting. Only IT jobs that were possibly created out of this would be more Computer Forensics professionals to help track data, and those are likely only to be used at the large firms like PWC.

    4. Re:SOX has created jobs, just sucky ones by geoffrobinson · · Score: 1

      I interviewed for a company that has since been bought by Oracle. It made software to help insurance companies comply with Sarbanes-Oxley.

      That's definitely jobs that were created, but it sounds like a drain on the overall economy.

      --
      Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
    5. Re:SOX has created jobs, just sucky ones by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      We call those people consultants.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    6. Re:SOX has created jobs, just sucky ones by fermion · · Score: 1
      I am going to be really conservative here and say it is easy to blame other people for your problem. You fail at school because the teachers are bad. The police officer is responsible for you being in jail for drunk driving. You got fired because your boss has a stick up his ass and expects you to be at work on time every day. You don't make enough money because no one will give you a raise.

      The reason we do not create jobs is because we have cushy government jobs. Just in the past several years we have a whole new department of homeland security with many grade 10 and above jobs making above median income. This in addition to god knows how many people who get paid just to stand around all day and rifle through my stuff. Hell, at the airport there are three people whose job is put a stamp on my ticket. How can I possible expand a business when the government with affordable employees when the government is paying good money for people to play in airports. In most real jobs a person has to work!

      Speaking of government theft, how am I supposed to get money when the government is stealing all the capital. In the past eight years, the debt has increased by at least 4 trillion dollars. That is 4 trillion dollars that someone else could use to start a business, but instead is being used to expand government.

      So maybe there are forces that hurt entrepreneurs. Those forces are more likely to be the availability of easy jobs rather than accounting laws and safety rules that do not apply to small business. Those rules tend to limit the size of a business, which means that more small operations can exist. In the end, a person with an easy job that pays something is not going to have the hunger to start something new.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
  4. Misses the point! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    SOX is for publicly traded companies, not startups. By the time they are publicly traded, the need for VC is generally in the distant past.

    1. Re:Misses the point! by folstaff · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yes and no. If a non-publicly traded company wants to do business with a company that falls under SOX, they may be subject to additional requirements (like an audit of internal controls). SOX is much bigger than most people think and bad for business.

    2. Re:Misses the point! by jcnnghm · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Your post title, "Misses the point!", is quite appropriate, since that's exactly what you did. Sarbox prevents large private businesses, startups, that aren't publicly traded from making the transition to being publicly traded, because of the incredible expense associated with getting into compliance. In other words, the millions a year it costs is acceptable to already publicly traded companies, but the millions that much be spent precludes non-publicly traded companies from making the transition, significantly raising the barriers to entry.

      --
      You don't make the poor richer by making the rich poorer. - Winston Churchill
    3. Re:Misses the point! by hey! · · Score: 4, Insightful

      People as clueless as Mr. Malone are entitled to their opinion, but should not necessarily be entitled to having that opinion published in a national newspaper. Of course that would disqualify the entire WSJ editorial page.

      2008 was indeed a disastrous year for IPOs. Here are the figures for the last several years:

      2008: 43 IPOs (not 8)
      2007: 272
      2006: 221
      2005: 214
      2004: 217
      2003: 70

      (source: http://www.ipohome.com/ipohome/Review/2008main.aspx and several other places)

      Now note: there were 33x as many IPOs in 2007 than 2008. This means that we can't say this was because of SarbOx because we had SarbOx in 2007. It is possible that adjusting to SarbOx was the problem in 2003, the year SarbOx went into effect, but SarbOx can't explain the change from 2008. Still, the writer might not be completely clueless. He knows enough to cherry pick years that were before SarbOx went into effect and which had higher numbers of IPOs than in 2008: 1999 (269), 1996 (272) and 1986 (365). However, it would appear that the years 2004 through 2006 were fairly normal for IPOs, with 2007 being an unusually good year.

      So with respect to 2008, I'd venture, without doing any kind of extensive research into this, that something else might happened in the capital markets in 2008. The editors of the WSJ might want to look into it.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    4. Re:Misses the point! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      So with respect to 2008, I'd venture, without doing any kind of extensive research into this, that something else might happened in the capital markets in 2008. The editors of the WSJ might want to look into it.

      Don't count on that. The purchase of the Wall Street Journal by Rupert Murdoch was the beginning of the end for reliable business reporting from that newspaper. It's only a matter of time until its reporting is just as insightful and informative as the Fox Business Network.

    5. Re:Misses the point! by loteck · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Astounding how we, as a country, can have comments like the ones in this thread, and like the ones in TFA, that continue to stand up for deregulation of the financial markets, having less accountability, requiring less transparency, while the entire system is collapsing precisely because of a lack or regulation, accountability, and transparency.

      You all are standing in the lobby of a skyscraper that is collapsing, preaching to the screaming people who are frantically running out the doors that 'this is exactly why we should enforce less standards when we build skyscrapers!' Everyone is looking at you like you are the retarded maniac that you probably are.

      *Gasp* an internal control audit, you say!? Why, that doesn't make any sense... that a publically traded company (whose business model relies on their business partners, who are private companies, remaining financially solvent) should require those private companies to attain attestation to the effectiveness of their own internal controls? How dare they. That just sounds, so... so...

      Responsible!

    6. Re:Misses the point! by Red+Flayer · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Malone is a boilerplate "Regulation is bad for business" guy who happens to be focused on the tech world.

      He claims SOx has failed, he claims the costs are too high. Perhaps he forgets the cost of NOT having such regulation.

      In addition, study after study has found that there are many benefits to becoming SOx-compliant, from risk attenuation to more accurate financial reporting, to streamlining processes via standardization. Googling "Sox benefits" will bring up quite a few, though you might need to wade through some marketing muck from companies whose line of business rests with providing compliance tools.

      I can personally attest that Sox compliance has saved a former employer of mine tens of millions... potentially more, if certain practices hadn't been discontinued and happened to be caught by the SEC.

      I think the main reason IT professionals hate SOx is that some of their work becomes drudgery. They fail to see the big picture, and from the finance side, I do what I can to make sure they can see how much it helps the company. As for it being an unnecessary burden on companies... tell that to the people who had their retirement savings in Enron stock. Tell that to the people who pinned their ability to put their kids to college on Worldcom stock. It takes a short memory to forget that confidence in large public companies in 2001-2 was similar to the confidence people have in the banking industry now. Would Malone argue that the best thing we can do for the general public now would be to deregulate the banking system further?

      I'd also note that the small companies he refers to have a much easier time with SOx compliance, such as a longer period in which to become SOx compliant. Further, it's been demonstrated that the high cost of SOx compliance is in implementation, not in maintenance of compliance. For a start-up, it's easy enough to begin compliant... then you never have to face a huge expense in becoming compliant, since your processes have been compliant all along. Since a lot of the benefits of compliance are "soft" benefits (they are hard to assign an accurate value to), it's difficult to determine whether compliance costs outweigh compliance benefits... but since start-ups do not have to bear the brunt of compliance expense (in converting legacy systems and processes), I feel it's probably beneficial to be compliant.

      Of interest, the SEC will be conducting a CBA of SOx compliance for small public companies in 2009. I'm interested to see what their findings are.

      Anyway, thanks for doing a mite of research and refuting his cherry-picked data.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    7. Re:Misses the point! by Red+Flayer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But you're missing the point... America is the country of the free [market|people|beer|music].

      People need to be free to wantonly misrepresent their publically-traded finances, how else can they mazimize their personal gain?

      People need to be free to lose their retirement savings because they invested in a company with sham accounting.

      Only by allowing people to be misled by the Captains of Industry can we expect them to learn to stand on their own two feet and get rich or die trying.

      Why do you hate America, Mr.-I-don't-think-people-should-be-free?

      ...

      [I agree with you 100%. But it's important to note that free-market idealogues really don't care about responsibility... or if they do (like Alan Greenspan) they eventually learn that companies will not self-regulate to act responsibly when the decision-makers in those companies benefit from acting irresponsibly.]

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    8. Re:Misses the point! by fishbowl · · Score: 1

      The "incredible expense" argument is a form of FUD.

      You've got a market cap of $75 million before SOX is a serious concern -- you have competent attorneys and accountants -- SOX is not the most complicated part of the process -- and if you can't handle this, you're really in trouble.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    9. Re:Misses the point! by jcnnghm · · Score: 1

      It's entirely possible to have a market cap of $75 million with annual profits of less than $7.5 million. Indeed, for start-ups, annual profit could be a lot closer to $2.5 million, yielding a P/E ratio of 30. All of the additional archiving and compliance measures could easily soak up a large percentage of that profit.

      --
      You don't make the poor richer by making the rich poorer. - Winston Churchill
    10. Re:Misses the point! by Russ+Nelson · · Score: 1

      It's taken a while for the damage to trickle down.

      --
      Don't piss off The Angry Economist
    11. Re:Misses the point! by this+great+guy · · Score: 1

      I'd venture, without doing any kind of extensive research into this, that something else might happened in the capital markets in 2008.

      What do you mean ? What's happening ? And what's up with these stories of people being foreclosed ? Why don't they just do like me ? Living under a cheap, not expensive, rock.

    12. Re:Misses the point! by folstaff · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Just a few things:

      A test of internal controls has nothing to do with a company's solvency. A company can be hemorrhaging cash and have excellent controls in place to protect from theft of money and information.

      The argument is that the law of diminishing returns applies to government regulation and you can reach a point of over-regulation. Since law is not a monolith we have passed that point in some areas and clearly haven't in others.

      There are still people who believe that government cannot solve every problem, and, to stay on topic, the current financial crisis happened with SOX in place. The real problem is that government requires businesses to invest in unprofitable markets and then deregulates when the businesses complain about being over regulated. They create a company (Fannie Mae) then allow said company's leadership to contribute to its regulators in Congress. After 20 years of new laws, unwillingness to repeal older laws, and turning a blind eye, the system is left to teeter until it does the inevitable.

    13. Re:Misses the point! by FooGoo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      SOX and all the other auditing standards don't ensure accountability or transparency. As will most regulations the penalties are almost never enforced until something goes wrong. You can run a business with shady practices for years providing SOX certifications, SAS70 reports, and any other type of certifications and unless something goes wrong no one will ever know. To your point: Government regulation won't solve the problems of the financial market. Markets cease to be true markets when the hand of government is involved. The real problem is that companies are not held accountable for their failures. Government/corporate bailouts, subsidies, protectionism, and other forms of manipulation only serve to isolate society as as whole from inherent market risks....thus increasing our tolerance for risk and not having to deal with the true consequences of failure. Increased regulation will only push us more in this direction.

      --
      People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them
    14. Re:Misses the point! by Red+Flayer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sarbox prevents large private businesses, startups, that aren't publicly traded from making the transition to being publicly traded, because of the incredible expense associated with getting into compliance.

      Which is why it's better to be compliant long before you are required to be.

      Maintaining compliant processes is easy and relatively cheap. Replacing non-compliant legacy processes is expensive. The lesson? Don't have non-compliant legacy processes, and you'll greatly reduce the cost of going public.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    15. Re:Misses the point! by Mr2001 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      The real problem is that government requires businesses to invest in unprofitable markets

      [citation needed]

      --
      Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
    16. Re:Misses the point! by lysergic.acid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      seriously. i mean, you might be able to argue that Sarbanes-Oxley is not the correct way to regulate publicly traded companies, but to say that deregulation is the solution is just incredibly stupid considering the history of corporate scandal/corruption we've had in this country.

      if companies are being driven out of the U.S. to the U.K., it's certainly not due to the London Stock Exchange being less-regulated. the FSMA 2000, passed by British Parliament two years prior to Sarbanes-Oxley being passed in the U.S., established equally extensive business regulations designed to promote responsible corporate governance and protect consumer interests. and even before the FSMA 2000 the U.K. had one of the best regulatory systems in the world.

      if anything, it was the lack of sound business regulations in the U.S. in the first place and the corruption which this unregulated environment created that caused such a public backlash forcing the Sarbanes-Oxley Act to be passed. if U.S. policy makers and industry lobbies hadn't been pushing for deregulation all these years, and had instead adopted the principle-based regulations that have long been employed in the U.K. and the rest of Europe, then there would have been no need for the strict rule-based regulation U.S. companies are now faced with.

      ignoring the need for sound business regulations is ignoring the realities of capitalist industries. if you resist sensible regulations that are necessary to protect public interest and societal well-being (with minimal enforcement action), then you invite corporate malfeasance and risk repeating mistakes of the past; at best there will be a public scandal and at worst an economic disaster, either of which will cause politicians to overcompensate for the lack of progressive regulations with reactionary ones like Sarbanes-Oxley. so the author's attitude is exactly what got us into the current situation.

      of course, then the author goes on to suggest that we return to Reaganomics, as if tax cuts for the rich have never been tried before (or have ever worked in the past).

    17. Re:Misses the point! by evanbd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Some of us are of the opinion that the current situation was created neither by too much regulation nor too little, but rather by *bad* regulation. The fix for bad regulation is not more bad regulation, but better regulation. Furthermore, if you believe that the government has demonstrated an inability to produce good regulation, you should seriously consider whether less than ideal quantities of regulation are better than a set of bad regulations.

    18. Re:Misses the point! by sjames · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You don't have to be anti-regulation to be anti-sox. It is entirely possible to simply believe that SOX is excessively expensive and not sufficiently effective while believing that some OTHER form of regulation and transparency would be a good idea.

      Remember, SOX has been in effect for several years and did nothing at all to prevent the mass financial irresponsibility (some of which WAS criminal) that has the economy so screwed.

      You all are standing in the lobby of a skyscraper that is collapsing, preaching to the screaming people who are frantically running out the doors that 'this is exactly why we should enforce less standards when we build skyscrapers!' Everyone is looking at you like you are the retarded maniac that you probably are.

      We are all standing in the lobby of a skyscraper that is collapsing and noting that the required expensive full cataloging of the exact color of each brick in the building did nothing but drive up the cost.

      A funny thing happens when you place crazy demands on potential suppliers and partners. The ones with solid products and services tend to say no thanks, leaving the ones with barely adequate products who are just desperate enough for sales to jump through your flaming hoops to get one. You might get lucky and find a good supplier that had a run of bad luck, but probably not.

      Either way, all that hoop jumping is expensive. Those costs WILL be passed on to the customer who demanded it. Adding a bunch of non-productive expenses is quite irresponsible!

    19. Re:Misses the point! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what happened to the "We don't negotiate with terrorists" Bush? you don't want to give us money eh? well then we will just shut down for a month. what happens when the loans are up will these companies say ah well we tried I guess we can cease to exist now. how about the government will they say well this failed to help I guess we can let them fail now or will they say hey we already spent some money lets see if any more will do us any good. the little boy with his finger in the dike only helped because eventually the proper fixes were applied. in general if you have a finger in a hole in a dike it can't stay there for long.

    20. Re:Misses the point! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, you don't mean like the $50 billion dollar scam from last week, do you? Oh, thats just because, you know, Ponzi and pyramid schemes fly below SarbOX radar (till the end, when $50 billion dollars!!!) goes missing. Otherwise, at least for all the accountants who have earned significant dollars doing it, Sarbanes Oxley is great!

    21. Re:Misses the point! by darkmeridian · · Score: 1

      Your view on Sarbanne Oxley depends entirely on your political beliefs. A friend of mine who lost a fortune on Enron AND WorldCom claimed that SOx has cost him more money than both of those companies. He meant it literally. Keep in mind that SOx didn't kick in until 2003, and my friend has been in school since that time.

      Personally, I find it suspicious that all the brilliant businessmen are complaining about SOx strangling their business. It's almost as if they can't cook the books anymore and they're chafing.

      --
      A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
    22. Re:Misses the point! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Scanning the posts above and below, I've found a few strange words: WSJ, IPO, SOX, IP, VBA, QA, HR, FASB, FTFA, AIG, CYA, L1, H1B, R&D, BSD, MPEG
      You kids and your crazy jargon... And you're wondering why people in their right mind move away from Information Technology and idiots take good jobs.
      PS: In case you were wondering, Information Technology = IT and PS = Post Scriptum

      I'm sick of this! It's Christmas, guys, get the fuck away from your computers (I'm only here 'cause I took a bath and I'm waiting to dry and YES, you too should take a bath)

    23. Re:Misses the point! by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Funny
      The financial system is not failing due to lack of regulation, it is failing due to incompetent and badly designed regulation. The financial system is hugely regulated, but the regulation is not addressing the real problems.

      To take your skyscraper analogy, we are saying that, while the building is collapsing, that maybe we should have less regulation on the refractive index of window glass, and maybe a bit more on the quality of steel used in the girders. Regulation isn't a yes or no question (unless you're jcr, in which case it's evil and wrong and a conspiracy by the government to destroy a libertarian utopia). It is a question of where and how much. All regulation has both positive and negative effects. In some cases, one clearly outweighs the other, but not in all. Deciding what to regulate, how, and how much to regulate it, is a very difficult problem.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    24. Re:Misses the point! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The purpose of auditing is to ensure that the statements are fairly presented. In years past auditors got bullied by management (it was easy to do, just hint that a different auditor is needed next year) so that aggressive accounting (oppoisite of the conservative accounting taught in schools) became the norm.

      Sarbox put some stiffness into the backs of auditors, where it should have been all along. Managements don't like that.

      The essence of financial controls is to keep the statments controlled. Managements prefer them uncontrolled, very easily manipulated to present the appearance they wish presented. Face it, most high paid executives are type A personalities. They don't like to be controlled.

       

    25. Re:Misses the point! by Azghoul · · Score: 1

      You mentioned "sensible regulations" and yet this thread seems to be mainly about SOX. "sensible" and "Sarbanes-Oxley" probably should never be in the same zip code...

      Oh, and industry lobbies weren't ever arguing for deregulation - just, regulation that would protect themselves vs. competition, just like always.

      I agree that the gov't took exactly the wrong route with respect to the rules of business, but to call it "deregulation" is to miss the point, I think.

    26. Re:Misses the point! by ckaminski · · Score: 1

      Not true. You can chop a finger off and superglue it to the dike.

      This is an eerily appropriate metaphor for what's happened to the financial markets the past few months...

    27. Re:Misses the point! by FiloEleven · · Score: 1

      *sigh* Here we go again.

      It is not a lack of regulation that caused the market crash. The crash is the result of a bubble that has been building since the '70s, and it just happened to be the shady housing financial practices that tipped things over the edge. If they hadn't done it, something else (likely still in the housing market) would have. But the root cause of all of this is the Federal Reserve's manipulation of the money supply. Keynes disagreed, but Keynes is dead, Keynes never saw this coming, and Keynes couldn't explain it if he tried.

      If the Fed did not set artificially low interest rates, it would not have been perceived profitable to build thousands of new McMansions. All that construction convinced people that homes are a hot commodity and drove the market prices sky-high. They would have been right had all the building been based on consumer demand (as in a free market) but the building stemmed from easy credit flow due to the Fed rate--this is known as malinvestment. Without this glut of new homes on the market, the whole financial end of things (mortgage-backed securities, untrustworthy rating companies, etc.) would not have blown up as big as it did. So don't blame the market crash on deregulation.

      And as far as the great regulation cure-all goes...the regulations we already have in place should have prevented the Bernie Madoff $50bn ponzi scheme. Fraud is already illegal. There were a number of suspicions raised by various people about Madoff that were brushed aside by regulatory agencies. How did he still manage to pull it off?

      When all is said and done, I'm not a fan of regulation but it's not that big a deal to me. The thing is, the regulation debate is a paper tiger that hides the monumentally larger problem of the Fed's monkeying about with the money supply, and the failure to understand the full impact of that is going to make things a hell of a lot worse. The Fed is making bigger and bigger changes in an effort to keep everything from crashing down without realizing that it is only digging a deeper hole. I mean, come on - federal funds rate of 0%? That's going to devalue the dollar further and faster than ever before. Didn't it drop 2-3% against the Euro the day after they announced it? Hyperinflation is no longer just a theoretical possibility, but an actual (albeit minute (fingers crossed)) one.

      It's astounding that we, as a country, can be so continually distracted by whatever the media hive mind throws our way.

    28. Re:Misses the point! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "SOX is much bigger than most people think and bad for business."

      I remember an NPR report a year or two ago about Sarbanes-Oxley compliance at (I think) a shoe company. The management reported how they initially hated it; they had to do a lot of extra work, and take responsibility for it being correct. However, after a little while, they realized that they now had a much more accurate picture of where the company was financially - and understanding cash flow, etc. is critically important for maintaining and growing your business.

      My take on it: If you're doing what you're supposed to be doing as a manager, SOX imposes minimal additional burdens. If you're finding it onerous, it's because you're a poor manager who doesn't understand accounting (or is trying to hide something). Fix your accounting practices, and then come tell us why it's so bad.

    29. Re:Misses the point! by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      So with respect to 2008, I'd venture, without doing any kind of extensive research into this, that something else might happened in the capital markets in 2008. The editors of the WSJ might want to look into it.

      Oh, come on, they're going to need more clues than that, stop teasing them.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  5. Single Tax by jlebrech · · Score: 4, Funny

    There should be a unified Single tax. This way there would be a lot less paperwork to do. That tax should be a Money transfer Tax, for example 15% when you get paid, buy something, transfer money. etc. It would also promote saving which is quite good at this moment in time.

    1. Re:Single Tax by ScentCone · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That tax should be a Money transfer Tax, for example 15% when you get paid, buy something, transfer money. etc.

      Yessiree, that will keep capital circulating! Nothing inspires a person to move funds into a position to better fund a promising new company or other investment than to take 15% of that money away from you for seeing the opportunity. Yes! Punish investment! That should get some new companies and jobs under way.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    2. Re:Single Tax by afaik_ianal · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yes, saving is exactly what we need right now. Everyone should put their money in the bank, and not spend anything. That way, all your neighbours might go broke slightly before you do.

      As for a simple flat tax, you realise what effect that would have on small business, don't you? Buy a product from a company that produces products from scratch, and you'll be paying 15% on that; buy a product from a shop that bought it from a manufacturer, who bought the components from another manufacturer, and there's going to be more tax in the price than anything else.

      What are you going to suggest next? Perhaps the world could get out of its current predicament if the governments were to print more money.

    3. Re:Single Tax by Daimanta · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Yessiree, that will keep capital circulating! Nothing inspires a person to move funds into a position to better fund a promising new company or other investment than to take 15% of that money away from you for seeing the opportunity."

      It will keep the capital moving. Moving to the Cayman Islands, to Switzerland, to Monaco etc.

      --
      Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
    4. Re:Single Tax by Gothmolly · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There should be a tax on credit transactions. Credit transactions are based on the assumption that if the joker doesn't pay you, you can take him to court. At this point, the gubmint steps in and gives you your cash. If 2 individuals exchange goods or cash for goods, there is no need for any government intervention, and thus no justification for taxing it.

      --
      I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
    5. Re:Single Tax by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's a real proposal for a tax like this, called the Automated Payment Transaction tax, but the rate is around 0.3%. Needless to say, this makes it a bit easier to stomach.

  6. IP psyched....? by davidsyes · · Score: 1

    OH! IP cycle psyched out?

    --
    Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
  7. How is this new? by khasim · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Faced with crushing reporting costs if they go public, new companies are instead selling themselves to big, existing corporations. For the last four years it has seemed that every new business plan in Silicon Valley has ended with the statement "And then we sell to Google."

    Ummmm, that's been the plan for YEARS. The only thing that changes is the name of the company that you hope will buy you.

    I could make the argument that it is "IP" patents that are the real problem.

  8. If Sarbanes-Oxley isn't working by baggins2001 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Then they need to get rid of it because it isn't working, but they are going to need to replace it with something else that does work.
    Currently, part of the problem is that the financial world is hidden. Oh just trust us, we know what we are doing. Well after 2 bubble bursts, people are really wary of investing in anything, because there isn't any reliable information and there isn't any repercussion if someone lies about financial dealings.
    So I don't think repealing Sarbanes-Oxley is the answer, unless something is put in its place that will help give investors confidence in their investments.
    I for one have pulled completely out of the market and I know of others that have also. Now the big question is if and when do we get back in. Right now there is nothing happening in the financial market, that indicates to me that things are going to improve. So why should I put my money into something that is going to crash again in 2 or 5 or 7 years.

    --
    He who said 1,000,000 monkeys on 1,000,000 typewriters would eventually type the great novel, never saw an AOL chat room
    1. Re:If Sarbanes-Oxley isn't working by postbigbang · · Score: 3, Informative

      We agree, except that taking the transparency components behind SarBox and making them both more easily audited and standardized would be helpful. Accountability and transparency ought to be key, but instead, SarBox isn't scrutinized by auditors, who are sufficiently comprimised by their engagements that the information is of no merit or use. The data might be there (and expensively, with lots of incongruencies) but there's no one to analyze it and act on it.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    2. Re:If Sarbanes-Oxley isn't working by profplump · · Score: 1

      I agree that useful financial regulation may be helpful. But I'm baffled as to why you think we need to leave in place something that you agree doesn't work until we get something that does.

      If your car had razor blades instead of seat belts, would you leave them in place until you could have seat belts installed or would you take them out as an entirely separate process, possibly while also working to find seat belts?

    3. Re:If Sarbanes-Oxley isn't working by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

      If the example of managed funds is any example, a disturbingly large component of the world's wealth lives nowhere else but the common spreadsheet. Oh there are registries, of course, the ledger is there -- but I've seen a lot of institutional financial reporting that is based entirely on opaque spreadsheet macros. It isn't like the information isn't there, it's just bloody inaccessible due to the medium. The stuff is largely written in VBA with less than perfect QA. At least the stuff is portable, anyway.

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    4. Re:If Sarbanes-Oxley isn't working by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      If the example of managed funds is any example, a disturbingly large component of the world's wealth lives nowhere else but the common spreadsheet. Oh there are registries, of course, the ledger is there -- but I've seen a lot of institutional financial reporting that is based entirely on opaque spreadsheet macros. It isn't like the information isn't there, it's just bloody inaccessible due to the medium. The stuff is largely written in VBA with less than perfect QA. At least the stuff is portable, anyway.

      Yes I wonder how auditors could get reliable data. In the old days you had centralised mainframe based accounting. Now the code is contolled by in house financial people and the spreadsheets can be made to report anything you want.

    5. Re:If Sarbanes-Oxley isn't working by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depends. If there's a belt made out of razor blades strung together and it can hold me in an accident and if the dashboard and windshield are covered in curare-covered stakes and razor blades, I'd have to think about it pretty hard or really badly need to get somewhere fast.

      The problem right now for "car and razor blade manufacturers" is that people are starting to catch on that the cars are deathtraps and that it's far safer to walk or bicycle.

    6. Re:If Sarbanes-Oxley isn't working by gregbot9000 · · Score: 1

      Sounds to me like a problem with limited liability. Get caught lying to drive up stock price, cashout then and drive the company into the ground? well your fired, but we're still under contract to give you a bonus of $60m, and can't prosecute. How about we arrest people for fraud? That would probably go a long way in giving investors confidence : you fuck me I nail your ass to the wall! not: you fuck me and you might not get all of your golden parachute.

    7. Re:If Sarbanes-Oxley isn't working by Red+Flayer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well first off, if you're going to capitalize letters, it's SarbOx, not SarBox. Sorry to nitpick, but my OCD-ness was making it hard to read your post without addressing that.

      As for acting on SOx reporting, I'm not so sure you're correct. I can think of several companies whose financial statements yielded results from investigation, that probably wouldn't have been caught without SOx (Rockstar Games being the one closest to the Slashdot crowd). And from a company's internal perspective, SOc compliance aligns well with process standardization and optimization... many (most?) companies out there are using internal SOx audits as a tool for improving efficiency and reducing costs.

      As for ease of audit and standardization... have you ever done a SOx audit? And I don't mean been subject to one, I mean from the other side... have you ever conducted an audit? SOx makes good auditing far easier than it was before.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    8. Re:If Sarbanes-Oxley isn't working by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      The misspelling was intentional.

      When I've looked at the audit process from the investment due diligence perspective, I've been unendingly suspect of the SOx #s I've seen. I don't believe them. The processes are incomplete, but that's fodder for a post in a different place.

      IMHO, it's a broken and expensive and largely opaque process. I wish I were wrong. Perhaps I am.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    9. Re:If Sarbanes-Oxley isn't working by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm baffled as to why you think we need to leave in place something that you agree doesn't work until we get something that does.

      Maybe because our government has the attention span of a fruit fly, and if a replacement isn't brought up ahead of time, there never will be a replacement?

    10. Re:If Sarbanes-Oxley isn't working by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      Fraud is a crime. Contracts can't provide immunity against prosecution for criminal ofenses, so it's a moot point -- all you have to do is to make sure that government prosecutes it.

      What, of course, is the root of the issue -- government acts as if prosecution of crimes is some kind of optional activity, and would rather throw billions at some military adventure half a globe away, or give someone ten life sentences for smoking weed.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    11. Re:If Sarbanes-Oxley isn't working by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      They don't provide immunity, but the contracts provide tremendous protection. For example, if I report criminal behavior in my workplace, I'm liable for serious lawsuit for revealing NDA material. Unless the criminal behavior is actually proven, and the company gets convicted, and unless I have very good legal representation, I'm at serious danger of industry wide blackballing, losing all my assets trying to protect myself from lawsuit even if I was correct about the felony, and anyone else who testifies with me is in the same danger.

      And the likelihood of the incompetent FBI personnel, or overwhelmed SEC personnel, in convicting a company of the kind of criminal behavior I might be able to report is basically zero. They don't have the time or resources to protect me in such circumstances.

      Fortunately, there used to be www.fuckedcompany.com, and now there is www.wikileaks.org, to leak corporate malfeasance. But cover your tracks carefully if you hsve to make a leak: it's always a bit dangerous.

    12. Re:If Sarbanes-Oxley isn't working by SirLanse · · Score: 1

      The point of SOX was to make corporate officers liable.
      They can't say they don't know what the company is doing.
      They still got bail out not bail or jail they should have gotten.
      I guess if you blow the head of the banking committee you can get away with anything.

    13. Re:If Sarbanes-Oxley isn't working by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      That's not "protection", that's opportunity for retaliation -- and being a whistleblower doesn't really matter because just as well they can fire and sue you if you don't do anything at all.

      However it's merely strengthens my point -- investigation and prosecution of crimes is a job for the government, not individual victims and vigilantes. The problem is, your government sucks donkey balls and can't perform its most basic functions, so victims and random whistleblowers do more than police, FBI, SEC and other agencies that are supposed to protect the public from this.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    14. Re:If Sarbanes-Oxley isn't working by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      An opportunity for overwhelming retaliation is, indeed, a form of protection for the company. How could the presence of such devastating risks to whistleblowers not be considered contractual protection for the company?

      The FBI, SEC, etc. are also heavily dependent on whistleblowers. It's often painful if not impossible to get that first piece of information to justify an investigation, without a whistleblower to draw attention to the crime, or they'd have to be far more invasive than they are now.

  9. There are other things first. by cwcpetech · · Score: 2, Interesting

    1: Cancel all H1/L1 programs indefinitely, but with a condition that they return at some point in a more regulated form. 2: Reclassify transplant manufacturers as import manufacturers of that particular nation and tax accordingly. 3: Zero taxes on businesses that would comply with a strengthened "Patriot Business" standard. That is, loopholes would be removed. 4: Domestic preference for education and funding thereof at all levels. 5: Put a moratorium on new fuel taxes or changes that effect an increase of any kind. 6: Revert all of the environmental standards for vehicles to 1980's standards.

    1. Re:There are other things first. by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I wouldn't cancel the H1 programs, but I'd tighten standards. Yes, that comes from someone who'd love to move to the US and work there, and someone whose country has the same problem of people coming here to "steal" our jobs.

      Face it, like it or not, there are sometimes not enough people available with a certain skill. Over here, we have a crippling shortage of nurses, doctors and skilled pharmacologists. If we didn't get them from abroad, certain services would simply cease to exist and our living standard would plummet. So I'm all for inviting them in.

      What we do NOT need, and neither does the US, is more unskilled labour and more people who can do only what people already in the US can do as well, often to the same or even better quality, but they'd cost more. What I'd rather demand is that whoever gets hauled in from overseas has to be paid AT LEAST as much as a local resident would cost (it's not hard to figure out an average, is it?) and you'd suddenly see how companies stop to gobble up all the open H1 spots to get cheap slaves from abroad.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:There are other things first. by gishzida · · Score: 1

      1: Cancel all H1/L1 programs indefinitely, but with a condition that they return at some point in a more regulated form. 2: Reclassify transplant manufacturers as import manufacturers of that particular nation and tax accordingly. 3: Zero taxes on businesses that would comply with a strengthened "Patriot Business" standard. That is, loopholes would be removed. 4: Domestic preference for education and funding thereof at all levels. 5: Put a moratorium on new fuel taxes or changes that effect an increase of any kind. 6: Revert all of the environmental standards for vehicles to 1980's standards.

      Item 1... why not just change these programs into "sponsored citizenship programs"? The idea being if you want to work here you become a citizen.

      Item 2: Ditto on corporations that "outsource" their labor overseas. Remove "offshore" corporate taxbreaks.

      Item 3: So the average Joe has to pay the taxes for all of the their profits? Only if the stockholders pay the taxes instead.

      Item 5 & 6 on your list do nothing to help anything at all except line the pockets of foreign governments and very large corporations...That's not a step forward.

      The gas tax has not changed for a long time... but a $2.50 a gallon tax for drivers of SUV and Trucks used for non-business purposes (vehicles required to perform work exempted but not those used to get to work) might spur some folks to try and find a cheaper more efficient means of transportation.

      As for rolling back the standards... I guess you've never lived in L.A.

    3. Re:There are other things first. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think they prefer the term indentured servitude.

      (Plus that way, it takes less time educating to make them a specialist!)

    4. Re:There are other things first. by ppanon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The simplest way to fix the H1/L1 is to remove the indentured servitude component. If you allow the holder of an H1/L1 Visa to move to a job with the same classification (similar skill/educational requirements) at a different company, then companies will have to pay market rates to keep them as employees. To be more fair to the company, make the departing visa holder reimburse the company the cost of the Visa application, prorated for the time spent working for the applicant company vs. the remaining time before the Visa expires. I would also allow the company to have a streamlined process for refilling the position if it happens withing a year of the original application (i.e. no need to re-demonstrate that the position cannot be filled by a citizen).

      What's that you say? The companies wouldn't be able to get another Visa replacement because all the H1/L1s Visa quotas are filled up on the first applicable day of the calendar? Make the above change and that will cease to be a problem.

      --
      Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
    5. Re:There are other things first. by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 3, Insightful

      how about we get a system of enforcing the standards first? Last I heard, H1B enforcement was a joke - want to hire some guys from China? Post a ridiculous ad in an obscure publication, hire nobody, then import your guy. It's a hassle when the guy is legitimately unique/hard to find, but can be gamed easily. And if you abuse/violate the rules? How many people are there to bust you? Not many.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    6. Re:There are other things first. by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And if you get busted, do the fines exceed the money you saved by hiring a cheap foreign slave? No? Then why bother comply with it?

      In a business, the question whether or not a law is heeded hangs on three questions: How much do I save by breaking it? How likely is it that I get caught? How much is the fine when I get caught? There's nothing else that determines whether a company breaks a law.

      Yes, we have laws against dumping oil in the ocean. Why is it still done widely? Because it saves you heaps of money, because it's almost impossible to get caught and the fines are a joke. When the fines do not exceed the money you save by breaking the law, fines are seen as part of the cost of operation.

      How about shutting down companies that break the H1 visa laws for a few months to audit them throughly and make them ineligible for more H1 applications? AND create an agency that actually watches over you like a hawk when you hire people from abroad (it's not like the government doesn't know if you do, ya know, you had to get them through a process that involves the government...). You'll weed out those abusers of the worker visa program pretty quickly. Either they stop doing it or they get caught and are forced to stop.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    7. Re:There are other things first. by gregbot9000 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yep, government regulations to restrict supply work out so well in other industries.

      Ask your self, what advantage is it immigrants have over native workers? lower cost right, and why is that? because they are willing to consume less. Why don't you give up all the things I know you think you deserve.

      Hauled in from over seas you say? more like risks life and limb to get here. You're right though, FORCE companies to pay immigrants the same as everyone else and they will no longer be hired. just like when minimum wage goes up the first to be fired are minorities. It's bad to have the Goobernment create wage structures to isolate certain groups the state deems undesirable.

      They are not "Slaves" they are people who practice the right to sell their labor, they just can keep overhead lower than you. And they don't "steal" your jobs, they are more valuable at the price they are selling themselves for than others, meaning they are a net value. As a person starting out, I know full well the Labor laws aren't designed to benefit up and comers, but the entrenched interests who have the money. I've worked alongside immigrants while sharing a studio doing the same work as someone 20 years my senior who gets higher pay because his wage is grandfathered in. I'm sorry you have an overinflated sense of entitlement, but it isn't the state's job to enforce it. By hook or by crook were going to take what you have.

      Thats Just on the supply side too, don't even talk about the loss to consumers that raising prices arbitrarily would have, or the fact that businesses that can't use labor here will be more tempted to go over there.

      If you pay attention to facts your "Ideas" are little more than nationalist discrimination that will not benefit society, so that a few overpaid workers can ride the gravy train thanks to uncle Sam. Your plan would create jobs for citizens, by stealing them from the poor and paying for them at the expense of society in general.

    8. Re:There are other things first. by bmajik · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I am for essentially open immigration into the US. ... provided that we back way-off of the redistributionist, cradle-to-grave welfarism that our government has descended into.

      The statue of liberty doesn't say "give me your top 1%, at any cost, and let them contribute to our tax base". It talks about the tired, the hungry, etc. If they're willing to work, I want them. If they want to be looked after, I don't. And I want the federal government to stop "looking after" people born within US borders first.

      Ideally, foreign born people who work hard will come to the US and kick _out_ the lazy asses who were born here and expect to be waited on hand and foot by their government (which really means their harder working neighbors).

      Unlike many other cultures or nationalities, definitionally, there is no common ethnicity, culture, bloodline, geography, or anything else that makes citizens of the USA "Americans". We are (historically) United only by our voluntary adherence to the rule of law. When we lose sight of our shared law, what are we? We have nothing else in common.

      It is my opinion that the current generation of Americans (and who knows how many prior generations) are hardly Americans at all. We're more than willing to dispense with the rule of law and to vote ourselves or our interests more powers than are strictly legal, should it so suit us. The new generation of Americans thinks themselves something different than those bound by a common constitution that is applicable to any man who chooses to live under it. And the result is that we're back to the same old tricks of juding people based on where their parents came from, rather than how hard they work and how well they can keep our laws.

      Rules regarding how much a man can sell his labor for (i.e. minimum wage laws) are some of the most insidious repressants of the poorest and least talented members of society.

      The H1B system is quite odd: people who are talented wage earners cannot afford to float between jobs looking for something better and must jump at unattractive positions in order to stay employed. Yet people who are low-skilled or who elect not to work at all are not deported, and if they score the trifecta and add _another_ dependant entity to our welfare system (i.e. they have a kid) then they have cemented their place in the US legally.

      As usual, our foolish government meddling works against us. We ensure that unemployed people stay in the US and "in the system". And we make it hard for high-skilled people to negotiate effectively for their true worth.

      Finally, I do a fair bit of tech interviewing. There is a real shortage of US-born/US-resident workers that meet our requirements. I'm not talking about a shortage of people that will work for the palrty wage we're offering: I'm talking about people that we're willing to make an offer to at all. We look for them anywhere and everywhere, and I interviewed 25 people at a college campus recently. Half of them where white-bread America and half of them were foreign-born US students.

      --
      My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
    9. Re:There are other things first. by Glonoinha · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Or you could make the application fee on the H1-B optional in size, non-publicized, and non-refundable. And the highest 'bids' get to have the H1-B.

      At this point it really becomes a matter of 'we MUST have this guy because he's the only guy in the world that can do this work' and kick in a massive $40,000 as your application fee, guaranteeing that you get him. The top 65,000 applications (ie, the ones that sent in the highest application fee) get visas. The rest of them get absolutely nothing, but they don't get their application 'processing' fee back.

      Make the visa good for 1 year, and they need to repeat the process each year or the guy goes back home.

      All of a sudden, the companies that really need a certain skill get it. That's what the program is all about, so lets insure it works in a strong fashion.

      250,000 applications averaging $10,000 apiece = $2.5 Billion. That is a LOT of money that could be poured into the education system, teaching our next generation to do the work that needs to be done by our employers. Pretty simple.

      --
      Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
    10. Re:There are other things first. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Ideally, foreign born people who work hard will come to the US and kick _out_ the lazy asses who were born here and expect to be waited on hand and foot by their government (which really means their harder working neighbors).

      Yeah, but where to? I mean, it ain't like other countries have any shortage of lazy, ignorant "gimmegimmegimme" morons.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    11. Re:There are other things first. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      7. Use CorelDRAW! to make one's own vehicle inspection stickers.

      Did he get screwed out of college by Ronald Wilson Reagan?

    12. Re:There are other things first. by ppanon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The disadvantage of your approach is that the government is really taking that money from the Visa holder, because the salary+application fee should really be the market rate for the position that the company would pay a local resource if one was available. So you're still applying a deflationary pressure to the market rate salary, which discourages people from training for that position on a global level and exacerbates the skill shortage. Alternatively you make it more likely that resource will work for a competing company (or external division) in a country that uses a fixed visa application fee that leaves more money in the budget for his salary. So you're giving the company the choice between exploiting the indentured servitude aspect of that employment (which your approach doesn't fix) or off-shoring the work to a country where they don't have to pay that application fee. So either you're having the government condoning unfair exploitation of workers in exchange for a lottery kickback, or encouraging a corporate off-shoring strategy that results in a loss of tax revenue. And as a bonus, you would make companies have to go through the process more frequently, raising their administrative costs further when there really is a local skill deficit and they have no choice about bringing in out-of-country talent. Oops.

      Now your approach would help bring the number of Visas issued down, because the government would have an interest in keeping them scarce to maximize revenue by keeping bids high through exploitation of an inelastic demand curve. But my approach would also do that by discouraging companies that currently use the system to exploit the Visa holders, without penalizing companies that actually require access to critical resources.

      If a company's going to pay a lot of extra money to make sure they get they get access to skills, I would much rather that the money go to the people with those skills, thus encouraging others to develop those skills and reduce the shortage, than that the money go into government coffers where its use to actually fix the shortage is less than assured. If the company really needs the person with the skills so badly that they're willing to pay $40,000 more in a visa auction, let them pay it to the worker (who will pay a chunk of income taxes on it anyways) rather than directly to the government.

      --
      Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
    13. Re:There are other things first. by bmajik · · Score: 1

      Well, I wasn't that serious about that part of the message :) Inventing a new power of deportation-due-to-laziness would run afoul of some of the same ignoring-the-rule-of-law and scope-of-governance complaints I made in other paragraphs.

      The point I was trying to make is that geography of birth doesn't make one American, nor does it entitle one to some sort of "American Promise", as our new president-elect is fond of calling it.

      I would argue that ideological compatability regarding the rule of law, work ethic, and limited government is what traditionally defines one as American. And many foreigners have this in tremendous abundance compared to native-born n-generation "Americans".

      So I'd like the USA to be the place where people who are ideologically compatible with what the American dream once was all choose to congregate and invest their life's efforts, irrespective of where they were born or what language they grew up speaking. Of course, that would probably require kicking out most Americans and nearly all American politicians first :/

      --
      My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
    14. Re:There are other things first. by jcr · · Score: 1

      just like when minimum wage goes up the first to be fired are minorities.

      I found it rather shocking when I learned about the racist arguments made in the House of Representatives in favor of the minimum wage, back when it was became federal law. Some of the anti-black diatribes from the early leaders of the AFL, the CIO, and the American Socialist Party would deeply shake any of the liberals who cheer for the unions today.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    15. Re:There are other things first. by beefstu01 · · Score: 1

      This wouldn't help at all, and probably hurt in the long run. It may have worked 10 years ago when working in different theaters was difficult, but everything is so connected now that the company would probably just keep H1B guy in his home country in one of their satellite offices. I guarantee you that your Ciscos, IBMs, HPs and the like (you know, the major users of H1Bs) have offices in India, China, Japan, the EU and Australia. The company doesn't pay the ridiculous bribe, and the US don't get the associated state/income/sales tax this dude would have paid. Double loss.

    16. Re:There are other things first. by Eli+Gottlieb · · Score: 1

      Finally, I do a fair bit of tech interviewing. There is a real shortage of US-born/US-resident workers that meet our requirements. I'm not talking about a shortage of people that will work for the palrty wage we're offering: I'm talking about people that we're willing to make an offer to at all. We look for them anywhere and everywhere, and I interviewed 25 people at a college campus recently. Half of them where white-bread America and half of them were foreign-born US students.

      So what were these requirements that you had such a hard time filling?

    17. Re:There are other things first. by YesIAmAScript · · Score: 1

      H1B was fixed so that people can change jobs many years ago. I hired a person 3 years ago by transferring his H-1B. Your other measures have not been considered or adopted though.

      Note that changing jobs during green card application (which many people are in while on H-1B) does cause somewhat of a reset in green card processing. So that's still a disincentive to change jobs.

      --
      http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
    18. Re:There are other things first. by codepunk · · Score: 1

      Probably looking for a .net programmer with 20 years of experience in C#, oh and for 12.50 hour.

      --


      Got Code?
    19. Re:There are other things first. by FooAtWFU · · Score: 1

      Your proposal makes sense except for one of the fundamental notions behind it: that the government should be in the business of extracting every penny they can from companies in need of skilled foreign labor. That doesn't help American companies stay competitive, that doesn't help American companies' stockholders make money (ultra-wealthy /or/ retirement investors), and it doesn't help the consumers of products made by American companies. Rather, it is a real, tangible drain on that sector of the economy.

      There are ways to fund the government which are less destructive than massive trade barriers (which is essentially what that is).

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    20. Re:There are other things first. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Actually it's a matter of a mindset. You needn't kick out the US population, you just have to give them other values than "whatever makes me rich is good". It's time to remember the words of Kennedy, and not asking what your country can do for you.

      This will of course only work if the people in the limelight don't show the wrong behaviour and get away with it. When politicians are crooked and managers are even worse, the average person will ask, and rightfully so, "Why should I?" If your leaders and aspiration figures show that you're best off if you're an embezzling crook and the law is your plaything, people will follow this lead. If the TV shows us lowlives and idolize them (American Idol, anyone?), this is what our youth aspires to. Especially TV has a very powerful ability to give people ideas.

      If we want to turn our countries around and put them back into the "yes we can" mood of the 60s, we first of all have to return to the ideals of then. And that means especially that our role models have to. We first of all need politicians and industry leaders that show that hard work is the way to the top, not bending the law and nepotism. Unfortunately, the latter is what makes you rich today.

      Trying to instill work ethics in people is fruitless if their role models show them that you're far better off if you play the system instead of building it.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    21. Re:There are other things first. by bmajik · · Score: 1

      Actually the interviews prescribe no particular programming language. We assume that the person can program or express an algorithm but are not choosy about which language they use.

      We're mainly looking for people who convince us they're smart enough to do "the job", whatever that job may entail in the future.

      Apologies for sounding snotty, but I wonder if you'd qualify? Your reading comprehension or attention to detail both seem to be a bit short, as my original message specifically mentioned that there were no salary discussions at this stage of the process, so clearly a hire recommendation isn't gated on someone being willing to work for $12.50/hr.

      I handle making a recommendation regarding if a candidate is technical talent the company should pursue or not. Someone else decides what they get paid if later. If they don't get past me, it's not because they won't work for small money, it's because they're not useful to us at any plausible pricepoint.

      We don't have many people that interview with us long enough to get an offer and then elect not to take it because the pay sucks. Some do, but not many.

      --
      My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
    22. Re:There are other things first. by Draknor · · Score: 1

      The statue of liberty doesn't say "give me your top 1%, at any cost, and let them contribute to our tax base". It talks about the tired, the hungry, etc. If they're willing to work, I want them. If they want to be looked after, I don't. And I want the federal government to stop "looking after" people born within US borders first.

      Yeah, like those damn bankers!

      Your post sounds great, but ideology tends to fail when it meets reality. Things aren't black & white -- such as health care. What do you think about state-provided health care? Sounds like another case of the "nanny state" -- but the only way for private healthcare to work efficiently is to DENY people access. Otherwise you get a freeloading / tragedy of the commons problem.

      Note that I don't explicitly disagree with any of the points in your post -- except this:
      We're more than willing to dispense with the rule of law and to vote ourselves or our interests more powers than are strictly legal, should it so suit us.

      I'm no history major, but I think that's a rose-colored look at the past. I do think our society is more consumption-focused than in the past, thanks to the technological progress and wealth that's been generated (and debt that's been used), but I chalk that up to more opportunity, not some fundamental shift in individual psychology.

    23. Re:There are other things first. by bmajik · · Score: 1

      I post-date the 60s by a wide margin, and most of what I recall reading about from the time period was that it sucked and most of the people who are memorable from that time period also sucked or are remembered for unacceptable behavior.

      In my narrow understanding, the good points about the 60s are the Apollo program and not getting nuked by the Soviet Union. What are the other 60s values or ethics you think need to return? What made the 60s better than the 50s or the 70s? Or the 80s?

      I agree wholeheartedly on the problems of corruption in governance. Unfortuneately, I don't think the answer can be found by choosing a better man as president, as that will last for a maximum of 8 years under normal circumstances. Instead, we have to limit the power of the office. There were corrupt politicians in the 1700s and the US constitution was in large part designed to route around such defects. We've strayed from that document in many regards and it has been entirely to our detriment.

      --
      My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
    24. Re:There are other things first. by bmajik · · Score: 1

      Yeah, like those damn bankers!

      Seconded. I find it odd that the original bailout failed by a wide margin, but when the bill had a few billion in candy attached to it, it passed no problem. Who are "our" representatives representing?

      Your post sounds great, but ideology tends to fail when it meets reality. Things aren't black & white -- such as health care. What do you think about state-provided health care? Sounds like another case of the "nanny state" -- but the only way for private healthcare to work efficiently is to DENY people access. Otherwise you get a freeloading / tragedy of the commons problem.

      I am entirely against state provided healthcare. If you want to see how the US government would preside over healthcare, go visit a VA hospital.

      Actually, the problem of effectiveness related to DENYing care happens in state systems, not private ones. Long waiting lists and treatment denials are quite common in the rest of the world, where because care has no direct cost to the consumer it MUST be rationed and the rationers are the governors.

      I've read that in 1900s America that the working poor, especially 1st generation immigrants, were able to get housecalls from their doctors, even though they couldn't afford it at the time. It was common to work out payment arrangements with your physician, and the physician had a vested interest in seeing that you were healed enough to return to work as their paycheck depended on same :)

      I think people need to get around the foolish idea that healthcare is "special". Healthcare _does_ cost money, and that cost needs to be explicit and in the face of those receiving care so that they can make decisions appropriately.

      I haven't done an exhaustive study of pre-HMO healthcare in America but the reading I've done suggests that the system was much more affordable and that people got better care.

      Note that I don't explicitly disagree with any of the points in your post -- except this:
      We're more than willing to dispense with the rule of law and to vote ourselves or our interests more powers than are strictly legal, should it so suit us.

      I'm no history major, but I think that's a rose-colored look at the past. I do think our society is more consumption-focused than in the past, thanks to the technological progress and wealth that's been generated (and debt that's been used), but I chalk that up to more opportunity, not some fundamental shift in individual psychology.

      The federal government of today has more powers than it is constitutionally authorized to have by the letter of the law and certainly more than it was intended to have by the spirit of the law.

      How did this happen if we didn't vote for it?

      The USA had no income tax for the majority of its existance. We now have the most progressive income tax structure in the world. What other explanation is there for this than the majority agreeing that they can use the coercion of government to steal from the minority? What difference does it make if populist politicians are moving the levers that make this happen? Ask the majority of people if they think the rich should bankroll them and they'll say yes. Ask the rich if they think the "little people" should bail them out because they're "so important" and they'll mean yes and say something else :)

      How representative of the voting public was the Obama voter who said that Obama was going to forgive her mortgage and pay for all of her wellbeing? When did this become a job of the federal government?

      --
      My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
    25. Re:There are other things first. by Kindaian · · Score: 1

      Free people from the visa hurdles and you will see people that join that kind of crappy companies just flee and move to another... Market working at it's best.

    26. Re:There are other things first. by Draknor · · Score: 1

      ... but when the bill had a few billion in candy attached to it, it passed no problem. Who are "our" representatives representing?

      I don't think the "who" was ever in question (sadly). Personally, I'm still divided on whether the "bailout" was really needed - it's a no-win situation that we'd gotten into.

      I am entirely against state provided healthcare. If you want to see how the US government would preside over healthcare, go visit a VA hospital.

      I don't personally have any experience with the VA hospital, although my elder uncle seems to like the service he gets at his.

      Actually, the problem of effectiveness related to DENYing care happens in state systems, not private ones.

      It's a slightly different context (as I understand it). We have a downward spiral in the US in that hospitals cannot refuse emergency care services to a patient. Patients who don't have insurance do not get proper preventative care or early diagnosis, and thus don't get medical attention until a problem becomes urgent, at which point it is much more difficult & expensive to fix. These patients can't/won't pay, so those with insurance (or Medicare/Medicaid) end up footing the bill (which raises costs for everyone else, and then more people can't afford basic health care). My perception of state-run systems (such as Canada & Europe) is that complaints about not receiving care tend to overstated. But I have no evidence to back that up.

      I haven't done an exhaustive study of pre-HMO healthcare in America but the reading I've done suggests that the system was much more affordable and that people got better care.

      I don't doubt that it was much more affordable, but I think a couple of key things have changed:
      - Insurance companies are 800lb gorillas (negotiating huge discounts) with a huge disincentive to pay.
      - More & more advanced technology & drugs are available, at higher costs. People who couldn't be saved in the early 20th century can now be run through a huge number of tests, scans, and referrals to specialists (and then still may or may not be saved)
      - American lifestyles are much more sedentary (leading to overall degradation of health)

      It would be very interesting if one could study pre-HMO health care in America, and extrapolate out how that might look today, given our current capabilities & situation.

      The federal government of today has more powers than it is constitutionally authorized to have by the letter of the law and certainly more than it was intended to have by the spirit of the law.

      I definitely agree with this. I wish the states had a lot more power, to keep the Fed in check. My "ideal" scenario would be that the Fed collects its money from the states (in the same proportion as Congressional representation), and however the states collect money from their citizens is up to the individual states. I really dislike this end-run around states power and the abuses of Federal government.

      That said, I don't see much hope for change regarding this. I think the only chance we have is if more people get more active in local politics and that groundswell bubbles up, with people pushing back on the powers up the ladder. But consolidation of power is such a big win for corporations, media (easier to cover national stories 24 hrs/day vs local stories), and those that already have power, that I'm not going to hold my breath for it...

    27. Re:There are other things first. by spiralx · · Score: 1

      But the US spends twice as much as any other country on health care already, the current system not only fails the 40% (IIRC) who have no coverage at all, it's hideously expensive. Even if you discontinued Medicare and Medicaid (which account for half of the GDP spent on health care) you'd still be spending as much as the UK (one of the more expensive systems) without universal coverage.

      There's some very good info here about the health care systems of six countries, all of which are implemented in different ways.

      As for people getting over the "foolish idea" that health care is special, it's not going to happen. Most people thankfully prefer to live in a society where being healthy isn't a privilege reserved for the rich.

    28. Re:There are other things first. by Eli+Gottlieb · · Score: 1

      So what's "the job", and where is it?

    29. Re:There are other things first. by bmajik · · Score: 1

      "The job" is for full-time employment doing software "development" at Microsoft. I interview for developers, testers, and program managers, and occasionally do screens for candidates that end up in other positions (i.e. hardware engineers).

      For full time positions we tend to not care about specific skills, i.e. n years of C#, because in another n years C# won't matter, or because on day 1 we will be asking you to help create D#.

      There's been a lot written about Microsoft interviews, products, and so on, so I won't repeat it here. The short version is that we're trying to understand if someone has the raw smarts and the drive to be successful doing whatever we throw at them.

      You'd be shocked at how many people we talk to that can't develop an algorithm that isn't exactly like something they've already done at school or work. These are people with good GPAs, interesting sounding work experience, and competant answers to phone screen questions.

      There's certainly a category of talent out there that for technical, economic, or politics/ideology reasons won't talk to us that would probably fly through our interviews. But they presumably do not represent the majority of the talent looking for work. And to be fair, the in-industry people who have been vetted or are the recognized leaders of their fields aren't going to be talking to people at my level about a job. I'm focusing on people who are junior to mid level in terms of career development but show a lot of promise or potential.. enough so that it makes sense for us to invest in their careers. And I concede that "sorting" people around that criteria is unfortuneately more subjective than anyone involved in the process would like.

      --
      My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
    30. Re:There are other things first. by bmajik · · Score: 1

      As for people getting over the "foolish idea" that health care is special, it's not going to happen. Most people thankfully prefer to live in a society where being healthy isn't a privilege reserved for the rich.

      There is a logical disconnect here.

      Healthcare costs money. There is no way around that.

      The goal of healthcare (presumably), is to make people healthy.

      No matter how much you spend, some people will never think themselves healthy, and some people will never actually be healthy. So how much should be spent on them?

      I can certainly render an opinion on how I think other people ought to spend their money, but thankfully I am not in the position to actually make that decision for people. I should hope that no one eles ever thinks themselves in that position over me.

      Who, but the individual, can decide how much their own health, wellbeing, or even life is worth?

      In a situation where others pay the costs, the individual has no disincentive to economize around what care will make her most happy or most improved. The costs are unbounded because no one has an incentive not to ask for what is free.

      Of course, because healthcare costs money, there is a limited supply of it. When there is a near-arbitrary demand for a resource that exists in limited supply, and when individual actors bear no portion of the cost (there is no price function), there must be some other mechanism of allocating care to individuals.

      When the government pays for the costs of care, the government necessarily determines that allocation.

      This results in all kinds of deleterious effects.

      Many services must be rationed because the supply is fixed and the demand is unbounded. Everyone suffers under such a system. When everyone is suffering scapegoats will be found and made to pay their pennance. Smokers should not receive care because they injure themselves, costing all of "us" money if we are to pay for their well being. Same with drinkers. Same with skydivers. Same with motorcycle riders. Likewise with those who eat red meat, or do not take enough vitamins, or do not live in pleasant climates.

      As the various factions of political influence attempt to decide who is worthy of receiving care and who is not, people continue not getting treated to _their_ satisfaction, through no fault of their own.

      Everyone (well, a few people) have paid "their share" into the common pot yet they receive care they feel is insuffient while they feel smokers (or whomever is popular to criticze) continue to receive treatment they do not deserve.

      Only an individual can know how important receiving a given treatment is to him or her. No one -- certainly not a government -- can properly decide that for him. There are stubborn people out there that would rather be sick twice as often but continue enjoying red meat than be barred from red meat but be only half as expensive to care for. There is no purely socialized healthcare system that can or should tolerate these people. There are some people that, no matter what is done for them, will continue to be in pain. Do you make them feel functional at $100/month, pretty good for $1000/month, or fantastic for $1,000,000/month? Who are you to decide? Why don't they get to decide?

      I don't trust my government to do much of anything properly. I certainly don't trust them to act in the best interests of my health (especially since they have a long record of acting against my health.. for instance it is illegal to sue the federal government for environmental disasters they create), and I will not tolerate them telling me how my healthcare dollars should be allocated, and what services i am deserving of.

      The only approach that is fair is to allow individuals to own completely the set of tradeoffs they make regarding care they receive, lifestyle changes they make, and realities they accept. But to allow individuals to completely own how much care they consume, those individuals _MUST_ shou

      --
      My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
    31. Re:There are other things first. by Eli+Gottlieb · · Score: 1

      Got an application submission page somewhere?

  10. Paperwork by Normal+Dan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I own a small business and have been considering hiring someone part time. Unfortunately I have no idea what paperwork needs to be filled out. What do I need to know as far as taxes, etc? If I could simply say, "I'll give you X dollars for N hours of work." It would be much simpler AND there would be one less out of work programmer.

    --
    A unique way to learn a language: http://languageloom.com
    1. Re:Paperwork by tknd · · Score: 1

      I would go here. Many of the links go to the irs website but there should be an SBA office near you where you can get more information.

    2. Re:Paperwork by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      hire them on contract.
      I'll give you X dollars for Y functionality and documentation. If I change the scope I'll pay Z "penalty" for the scope change. At the end of the year you give them a 1099 (and file one with the IRS). Done.
      It becomes their responsibility to manage disability, taxes, etc. not yours.

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    3. Re:Paperwork by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      Have you considered quickbooks pro or a local accountant? This stuff needs to be done right, but it can't be that hard - otherwise, how would single proprietorships manage 3-4 employees in addition to their businesses?

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    4. Re:Paperwork by mmelson · · Score: 2, Informative

      Hire a payroll company to deal with that stuff. Your time is almost certainly more important than the extra $20 per pay period that someone like Paychex charges. Right out of college I started a business with a friend and we ended up with 5 other people working for us full and part time. We used Paychex (just one of many), and we didn't have to deal with anything more complicated that a few forms we were provided with. They handled all the HR stuff for us, actually. It was quite nice to not have to worry about any of that stuff.

    5. Re:Paperwork by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      May I suggest you check the local educational facilities? I went to a free 1-day seminar at one of the local universities back when I started my business and they gave very good coverage over that kind of stuff.

      The really annoying paperwork doesn't start to set in until you have 20 employees or so. But hopefully by then you're successful enough to hire an employee to deal with it.

    6. Re:Paperwork by gregbot9000 · · Score: 1

      Uh you can do that, you just have to keep it on the down low and pay cash. Post an add on craigslist. In the economy right now there are lots of people willing to take on a part-time side job for cash.

    7. Re:Paperwork by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You could hire them as self-employed consultants. Then you just have to write checks to cover the reported time and fill out a type of 1099 form at the end of the year. This is pretty much the same as X dollars for N hours of work.

    8. Re:Paperwork by MrMr · · Score: 1

      Hire other small businessess on X dollars for N hours basis for specific projects. They will fill out their own paperwork and tax forms.

    9. Re:Paperwork by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I own a small business and have been considering hiring someone part time. Unfortunately I have no idea what paperwork needs to be filled out. What do I need to know as far as taxes, etc? If I could simply say, "I'll give you X dollars for N hours of work." It would be much simpler AND there would be one less out of work programmer.

      If you are in the US go to the local Small Business Development Center, the Chamber of Commerce, ask your accountant, or network with local business owners. It isn't that hard. Your lack of understanding doesn't make the system defective.

    10. Re:Paperwork by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I own a small business and have been considering hiring someone part time. Unfortunately I have no idea what paperwork needs to be filled out. What do I need to know as far as taxes, etc? If I could simply say, "I'll give you X dollars for N hours of work." It would be much simpler AND there would be one less out of work programmer.

      If you don't know yourself, ask someone who does. If this requires paying a lawyer or accountant, why do you think you are different from anyone else?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  11. Sick and tired of people ragging on mark-to-market by Software · · Score: 1, Interesting
    FTFA:

    FASB's "mark-to-market" accounting rules helped drive AIG and Bear Stearns into bankruptcy, even though they were cash-positive.

    should be:

    FASB's "mark-to-market" accounting rules forced AIG and Bear Stearns to admit that their liabilities had exceeded their assets, instead of allowing the companies to invent a price for the assets until were finally sold.

    FASB's acc

  12. In the telecom's it seems to help at least by Nathgar · · Score: 3, Informative

    I work in disconnects for businesses for a major telco, and we have a lot of auditing requirements due to SOx. I'd hate to think of what records would look like without these requirements. Sure people can still cheat, but it's also a CYA for the company that is doing the reporting.

    There is still slamming now and then, but there are far fewer disconnects in error, where the telco is at fault. Usually it is the business customer not knowing which location they actually wanted to disconnect on their side, or not reading what they wanted to disconnect.

    It would be nice to not have the reports. But you know if a business is not required to do it then there will be no tracking of any type done, which is where major abuses take place.

    I don't mind doing the reports in addition my normal workload because I'd been able to go over others work that I am auditing and get it back on track if there is a mistake in it.

    1. Re:In the telecom's it seems to help at least by alcourt · · Score: 1

      There's another area I've seen SOX help a great deal, computer security. Prior to SOX, there was a strong tendency in management to say "all security risk is outweighed by the potential gain." In other words, there was an unrealistic expectation of security vulnerabilities never being exploited, or if they were, being outweighed by the advantage of not spending the time to improve security.

      Now, with the SOX computer requirements, management is forced to monitor computer security as one of many elements of operations. As a result, there is more attention to how servers are configured, and from what I've heard, server reliability ends up improving. People are forced to review the servers, and when something needs fixing, there is a little bit of the "while you're fixing X to comply with audits, fix these other bugs by fixing X in this particular way."

      In one example repeated over and over, an application had non-compliant authentication systems. Bringing the authentication into compliance allowed the system to be integrated with the corporate authentication method, reducing helpdesk costs and improving the user experience (fewer passwords to manage).

      Auditing has seen a real increase. SOX is far from the only cause, especially in the example you give. Other audits and rules may also be responsible for some of the increased auditing requirements.

      Disclaimer: I work in the group that responds to computer security audits, gathering technical information for the auditors, as well as working on implementation of security policies.

      --
      "I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend unto the death your right to say it." -- Voltaire
  13. Deregulation is the answer! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, let's get rid of all those pesky regulations that just get in the way of business. Deregulation has done so well over the last 8 years that it makes sense to get rid of the last few impediments to a Perfect World of prosperity for all.

    1. Re:Deregulation is the answer! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Damn straight. Those Soviet guys got it right the first time, didn't they? Absolute total control over business... by unaccountable appointed bureaucrats.

      Seriously. Were you dropped on your head as a teenager?

    2. Re:Deregulation is the answer! by ivan256 · · Score: 1

      It has been argued, actually, that all the additional regulations over the last few years have made fraud *easier*. The regulators are so busy dealing with the additional regulations and paperwork that they don't have time to investigate other stuff.

      Meanwhile, fraudsters just lie to the regulators like they do to everybody else. If somebody is already breaking the law, they're generally not going to have any problem breaking the new law too. You know... That whole "If you outlaw guns" thing...

    3. Re:Deregulation is the answer! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      idiot

    4. Re:Deregulation is the answer! by alcourt · · Score: 1

      What SOX and related audit laws do is provide a method to show if the fraudsters are lying or not, and to give regulators real power over them if they catch them before they cause significant harm to others.

      Yes, there has been some transition period while people get used to the SOX requirements and how to handle them in addition to the normal requirements. I've seen increased attention lately, as well as better checks and balances to help detect if someone is trying to deceive the external auditors, or act in collusion with a corrupt auditor.

      --
      "I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend unto the death your right to say it." -- Voltaire
  14. Re:Sick and tired of people ragging on mark-to-mar by Software · · Score: 1

    Oops, wrong button. The second quote should be:

    FASB's "mark-to-market" accounting rules forced AIG and Bear Stearns to admit that their liabilities had exceeded their assets, instead of allowing the companies to invent a price for the assets until the assets were finally sold.

    For too darn long, companies could just make up prices for assets they wanted to value. Forcing the assets to be valued at what they're actually worth (i.e., what somebody will pay for them) is just common sense.

  15. cancel the h1bs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Too many qualified Americans rejected so that H1Bs can replace them (for the same money). Makes no sense whatsoever. Cancel the H1Bs.

    1. Re:cancel the h1bs by ivan256 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In the industries that have large number of H1Bs, the bulk of the unemployed aren't actually "qualified". This is especially true in the IT and software industries. People got jobs during the late '90s because companies were hurting for help. A lot of those people sucked, and are now out of work and bitter that there are H1Bs with "their job". The fact of the matter is that most of those people weren't qualified for the job in the first place. There is still a short supply of people who are actually qualified for IT and software jobs. Hell, the group I work for has been trying to hire a DBA for 6 months. Every time we think we've found one (after interviewing a bunch of unqualified people) they get a better offer from somebody else.

      H1Bs aren't the problem. It's people like you having a sense of entitlement that are the problem. Unemployment is only 6%. Go earn yourself a job instead of sitting around bitching about how somebody else has one that's rightfully yours.

      (People who *are* qualified, but work in an industry that's out of business also have a problem... But there aren't H1Bs taking their job. Their job is just gone.)

    2. Re:cancel the h1bs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently your company has no problem finding qualified people, just finding qualified people willing to settle for what you want to pay them.
      This, unfortunately, is where the H-1Bs are currently being used - to artificially depress the wages your company needs to pay for desirable skills by letting them bring in an indentured servant. See also http://www.cis.org/articles/2007/back407.html , and go watch the presentation by a law firm on how to disqualify Americans in order to legally hire H-1Bs instead.

      (If you'd prefer a less-biased source: "'They don't have the usual rights that U.S. workers have,' says Eileen Appelbaum, a professor of labor economics at Rutgers University. 'You're essentially an indentured servant.'" from http://www.businessweek.com/careers/content/jun2003/ca20030610_2638_ca014.htm ; or take a few H1-Bs out for coffee and ask them about how their green card applications were going and what would happen if they switched employers. )

      The program is fundamentally operating on lies. It has some safeguards in the law, but clearly they lack sufficient teeth, because average wages aren't really being paid and Americans are really being displaced. A very minimal amount of looking into it should show that there is an actual problem, and it's not just some bitter laid off guy whining.

    3. Re:cancel the h1bs by slashtivus · · Score: 1
      If "Every time .... they get a better job offer from someone else." it might be a clear indicator that you are underpaying for your particular area.

      Your H1B search(rant) would then be a self-fulfilling prophesy.

      I'm employed and doing well, but there is definitely a flaw in your logic.

    4. Re:cancel the h1bs by ppanon · · Score: 1
      Every time we think we've found one (after interviewing a bunch of unqualified people) they get a better offer from somebody else.

      Maybe that should tell you something. That you're undervaluing the position for instance.

      --
      Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
    5. Re:cancel the h1bs by gregbot9000 · · Score: 1

      Sure the program is flawed but your statement that it is indentured servitude serves no one. I am sick and tired of listening to people talk about how we need to "help" immigrants or H1-B's by enacting policy that is almost entirely designed to enrich the entrenched interest. If the people in the H1-B program think it's a good deal then who are you to tell them otherwise? Oh thats right an over entitled American who is following the latest trend of making daddy government cover his ass.

    6. Re:cancel the h1bs by convolvatron · · Score: 1

      or maybe there is a slimeball recruiter in the loop

    7. Re:cancel the h1bs by Politicus · · Score: 1

      Unemployment nation wide is closer to 7% while in California specifically it's more like 8.5% now.

      H1B's affect wages more than they affect unemployment. With a strong economy registering unemployment near 4%, they keep wages in check by preventing labor demand from running away from supply. In a stagnating economy with unemployment nearing 8%, they allow companies the freedom to cut wages, benefits, hours, etc. These cuts are often permanent despite being described as temporary concessions in "tough times" since all future gains are measured from where you are and not where you were a year ago.

      Growth in supply always depresses prices, it's simple economics. Add to that the fact that H1B's are a cheaper source of labor supply, and you have quite the corporate tool to control labor costs.

      --
      Politicus
    8. Re:cancel the h1bs by Eli+Gottlieb · · Score: 1

      Every time we think we've found one (after interviewing a bunch of unqualified people) they get a better offer from somebody else.

      So make a better offer and compete for labor instead of having the government use H1-B visas to subsidize your sense of entitlement to highly-qualified employees!

    9. Re:cancel the h1bs by underflowx · · Score: 1

      ...Hell, the group I work for has been trying to hire a DBA for 6 months. Every time we think we've found one (after interviewing a bunch of unqualified people) they get a better offer from somebody else.

      The statement "We can't find anyone!" should always have an appended "for what we're willing to pay".

  16. The whole SOX compliance thing was silly. by w3woody · · Score: 4, Insightful

    SOX was passed so that politicians could look like they were "doing something" after the whole Enron debacle. Okay, fine; politicians have to look like they're "doing something"--but unfortunately for us, "doing something" involves passing new laws, and every law that passes is a minor freedom that is revoked.

    The real irony of Enron was not that it was a failure of having the right regulations in place, but a failure of enforcement: the guys running Enron went to jail for breaking pre-SOX laws.

    That's the thing that irritates me the most: politicians always have to look like they're doing something, when in fact, the right thing for them to do is nothing, except, perhaps, hold a hearing to find out why enforcement failed. And sadly, enforcement fails more often than not because we don't spend enough money on enforcement because we're busy trying to figure out how to enforce the new legal requirements.

    The whole legal framework is bug laden and a perfect example of the Lava Flow Anti-pattern. What we need is for politicians to go through and rewrite the law to simplify it, rather than to add more and more layers of nonsense.

    As a footnote, every time someone says that some section of our economy is insufficiently regulated, I laugh out loud: nearly every aspect of the financial system (such as financial derivatives) exist as a side effect of the current regulatory framework. It's not that we don't have enough regulations--it's because the existing framework is buggy.

    1. Re:The whole SOX compliance thing was silly. by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's exactly the problem SOX has today, too. I was in the middle of a SOX audit at some large company over here that should remain unnamed to protect the guilty.

      Aside of some rather ... fantastic requirements (like, administrators being not allowed to be able to read data but are responsible for its backup), we were doing checklists. Do this, check. Do that, check. Why? Don't ask. Just do it. Yes, it's pointless, yes, we know that (this is not a coworker talking, this is from the auditor), but it's in the book, so do it. We documented features that didn't exist anymore, we documented workflows that are neither relevant to the software nor ever used (or, if used, could be interpreted in any way wrong), and we were delayed by over two months in a project (costing about a manyear of work, for fluff).

      The data we produced this way does in no way document the software, neither technically nor as an instruction manual. It does not show what the software does. It does not inform anyone about how values are calculated or why certain flags are being set. It does not give an auditor any relevant information that could enable him to identify something that could be used to "steal" money or hide a leak. It is utterly and completely worthless, but it does adhere to the SOX requirements.

      And that's what's wrong about it. Companies don't want SOX to work. The people in the company that deal with SOX view it as a nuisance and something they want out of the way because it cuts into their actual work. Auditing companies only want to check off the requirements because it's the fastest way to get their money for auditing the company.

      In short, NOBODY involved actually wants SOX to work.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:The whole SOX compliance thing was silly. by Normal+Dan · · Score: 1

      When I run for president, doing nothing will be my platform. I'll just sit back and let the free market and society figure everything out. I figure if I get involved, I'll just screw things up.

      My slogan will be, "Status quo is the way to go."

      --
      A unique way to learn a language: http://languageloom.com
    3. Re:The whole SOX compliance thing was silly. by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 0, Flamebait
      politicians always have to look like they're doing something, when in fact, the right thing for them to do is nothing

      Please stop posting your right-wing crap here. Take it to AM radio where it belongs, away from where anyone can hear it.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    4. Re:The whole SOX compliance thing was silly. by gishzida · · Score: 1

      I don't believe you understand the way our legislative system works.

      1) Lawmakers pass law.

      2) Executive branch turns that into "rule makings" and publish it in the Federal Register. Sometimes they enforce it. Sometimes they don't.

      3) ????

      4) Profit!!!

    5. Re:The whole SOX compliance thing was silly. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The real irony of Enron was not that it was a failure of having the right regulations in place, but a failure of enforcement: the guys running Enron went to jail for breaking pre-SOX laws.

      They also took advantage of the PSLRA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSLRA changes of 1995. Once PSLRA was the law of the land it became very difficult if not impossible to prosecute the Enron frauds of the corporate world. Rarely does a SOX basher acknowledge the deep damage that PSLRA did to law enforcement. The 1990's tech bubble was rooted in the lawless behavior empowered by the passage of PSLRA.

      Repeal SOX and PSLRA!

    6. Re:The whole SOX compliance thing was silly. by greg_barton · · Score: 1

      In short, NOBODY involved actually wants SOX to work.

      And yet, in fulfilling SOX, you're too busy to steal anything. Viola! SOX works!

    7. Re:The whole SOX compliance thing was silly. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I know there is a "no strings attached" joke in that typo of yours, but I'm too tired to find it.

      Anyway, quite the opposite. Upper management can't anymore sit in a billion boards, so they have even more time for embezzlement now due to SOX. It's the workers below them that have less time and thus also less chance to actually find out before it's too late.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    8. Re:The whole SOX compliance thing was silly. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Disclaimer: I am a SOX Auditor for the past 2 years, so I guess I have to be biased.

      Anyway, what you stated is partially true. I have seen what you mean by "checking off lists" that don't amount to anything. But the really big issue with SOX (it is far better now) is that no one knew WHAT the SEC wanted. The SEC didn't know WHAT could be implemented in the economy. Initially, everyone took a catch-everything approach. Auditors would ask for every single piece of crap possible and the companies would have to do them to get a clean audit. Unfortunately, this resulted in what you talk about, pointless check lists and documents that actually don't mean anything and only look good in face value. This was NOT what SOX was meant for. Nor does it HAVE to document what exactly the software does. It isn't about preventing people for committing fraud (ex: stealing).

      SOX is about assigning responsibility and accountability. The testing is supposed to ensure that somebody is talking ownership of everything and there is no single point of failure. In the past, workers and Managers would just sign off on things w/o doing an actual review. Something would happen, the company goes down, and the shareholders/investors have no recourse. The entity that they could sue went into bankruptcy and liquidated. They had to "Pierce the Corporate Veil" in order to get at the CEO. This was extremely hard, and it may not even the be CEO's fault!

      In Enron/Worldcom days, the amount of legal responsibility held by, not just the C's, but Senior Managers, Managers, and even workers is pathetic. The top guys in Enron/Worldcom only got in trouble because what they did was so big in scale. SOX assigns blame, and the buck stops at the CEO. Now, the CEO's don't want that much accountability, so they push it down via mandatory user access reviews, auditing processes, etc. So now when something bad happens, the investors will have recourse to go through the books (backup tapes) see which moron slipped up and approved that massive invest that had no return and sue the crap out of him (CFO, Sr Mgr, Mgr, Worker...).

      But there are still issues. I see personnel pointlessly go about being SOX compliant and doing a half ass job (ex: lipstick reviews). What I worry about is that they don't understand the liability that they have one their shoulders. This is something that didn't exist in the past. Same thing with the auditors, I see them do pointless tests that will only get them in trouble later on (thou the auditor has a head start as they think in terms of risk & liability).

      I think in the past 1.5 years SOX auditing has gotten far better. Now, most auditors are going back to the previous thought process in doing audits (SOX was supposed to extend this, not replace it). The approach is to identify risks, where they exist, design/test to see what the current exposure is, and... give an opinion on if the auditor is comfortable with the risk the client is taking based upon the applicable regulations. It doesn't limit the risk a company has to take, nor does it say that a company has to do x, y, and z. Thou certain business practices have become equivalent to being mandatory, else the market freaks out and your stock isn't as high as you want it to be. In turn, companies have started investing to design their systems to do the same: identify risks, monitor key points, and try to reduce exposure. In addition, they have built in audit friendly features to help out and reduce the work of the auditor (ask for a lower audit rate).

      Its not perfect, but it is getting better. In fact, the world over is creating their own kind of SOX. Which is actually better than ours and we will eventually go to that (not that we have a choice).

    9. Re:The whole SOX compliance thing was silly. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sound smart.

    10. Re:The whole SOX compliance thing was silly. by ErikZ · · Score: 1

      Congress is a body of lawmakers.

      They will continue to create law after law after law until it is literally impossible to keep track of them all.

      --
      Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
    11. Re:The whole SOX compliance thing was silly. by sheldon · · Score: 1

      From what I have seen of SOX, nobody knows what it means... and the consultants are using it as an excuse to jack up their billable hours.

      I sat in so many meetings where I'd have someone tell me that you have to do X to be compliant. Since doing X was a lot of work and it wasn't clear what the benefits were I'd ask what the actual policy was that we were trying to implement. Perhaps X wasn't the right solution.

      Nobody knew!

      People need to go back to the drawing board. Fire all the SOX consultants, and take some time to actually read the policy and then appropritately apply that with processes that are appropriate for your company.

    12. Re:The whole SOX compliance thing was silly. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      THAT is exactly what people should do, and I wish more people would actually DO it. Minor correction, they are guidelines, not policies. In order to apply across the board, they need to be generic, rather than specific.

      Anyway, I have heard this many times, and the company just tries to do it. Even when it is bloody wrong. Just so that the auditor can put down that the company is SOX compliant. What people should be doing is exactly what you just said. Even if there is a guideline, guess what, you can still NOT do it. The excuse of the expense out weighing the reduced risk was valid before SOX and is still valid.

      Companies and auditors think that in order to be SOX compliant, they need to spotty clean. That is not true, you need to be materially compliant. Materially compliant is paritally opinion based and varies slightly from auditor to auditor. (For those of you arguing that it shouldn't be, that is not possible and still leave freedom for businesses.)

      We have clients who don't do 3 of 20 things. But we feel that given their set of standard business processes, those last 17 make the first 3 almost pointless. We would like them to implement 1 of those that they missed as it exposes them to high risk (our opinion), but they don't feel it is worth the expense. So we just note the 1 item in our opinion every year. They note the 3 items in their financial statements. Their shareholders know the risk, and base their investments on that known risk. The company management doesn't feel the reduction of risk is worth the cost and the investors who keep their money with the company... obviously agree.

      In your case, I would have asked what the risk was. What they were afraid of. I bet you that you have 10 other controls that mitigate that risk. You tell them that the expense is so not worth the reduced risk, and you show them numbers. You show how your management can better use the money, and I bet you, worst case, your management will take the hit and start looking for another auditor who might agree that the risk is not material.

    13. Re:The whole SOX compliance thing was silly. by greg_barton · · Score: 1

      Typo?

    14. Re:The whole SOX compliance thing was silly. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      voilà: French word used for "There you have it!" My French is tres mal by now but I guess it's derived from "vois", "I/you look" and "là", "there"
      Viola: String instrument, with its pitch between violin and chello.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    15. Re:The whole SOX compliance thing was silly. by greg_barton · · Score: 1

      I was being ironical, as viola players are sad, depressed, superfluous members of the orchestra. They'd no doubt be happier working on SOX compliance instead of being snobbered all over by the first violins. :)

    16. Re:The whole SOX compliance thing was silly. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      How true, I know all those viola jokes...

      Why is playing viola like peeing your pants?
      Both give the whole thing a good, warm feeling without making any noticable sound.
       

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  17. Unintended consecuences by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It can be said of most government regulation that they hurt entrepreneurship. Sarbox is the most worst of them all but there are many such things. Than we wonder why business is leaving the state and going oversea. This is no what the intention is but there is this thing call unintended consecuences. That is practically a physical law of nature on the same level as Nuton's third laws. Whenever government makes regulations, irregardless of what is the purpose, than there are unintended consecuences.

  18. I have one sure way by bogaboga · · Score: 2, Funny

    One sure way that would work is to mandate that all products sold in the USA have a particular percentage of American Content; and this does not refer to simple "value added" per se.

    What I am talking about is the gross importation of finished, ready-to-use goods like automobiles and other big ticket items. If this mandate were in place, there would be thousands of jobs created across this great land.

    There was talk that Boeing's 787 Dreamliner is more than 67% "foreign!" This is unacceptable. There was a report that if the liner were just 70% American made, this would create 27,000 jobs.

    Can we even count the jobs that have gone to Mexico and Canada? GM's Silverado and Suburban are all made in Mexico. Those jobs would be right here.

    1. Re:I have one sure way by cwcpetech · · Score: 1

      Just be sure to reward them with a zero percent tax for going that route.

    2. Re:I have one sure way by Chaos+Incarnate · · Score: 1

      Once local workers are willing to compete with workers in the rest of the world, then you'll start seeing more products made locally. As long as they keep demanding compensation disproportionate to their value, they'll be passed over.

      (For the record, I live in metro Detroit.)

      --
      Benford's Corollary to Clarke's Law: "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
    3. Re:I have one sure way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GM's Silverado and Suburban are all made in Mexico. Those jobs would be right here.

      Not for long. At least you don't have to pay the welfare for those laid off. Well, unless they hop the border. Ha ha.

    4. Re:I have one sure way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once local workers are willing to compete with workers in the rest of the world

      I agree, once society gets used to living with 3 families to a hut, brothers and sisters sharing beds and so on, we'll be ready to compete with third-world countries.

    5. Re:I have one sure way by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Ok, define "American Content" in a way that can't be twisted and turned by companies. How about an US company manufactoring the product abroad. It's a US company, so it's "American Content". Or how about an "American Company" constructed near the border to Mexico, employing Mexicans for slave labour wages (or anyone who'd work for a few cents an hour)? Or only employing people who can't really complain about bad working conditions because it's either this job or none (ex-cons come to mind)?

      And how would you define that percentage? If you let some poor people in some backwater area of the US stamp some brand name on shoes that were made in China, the handful of people people who slave away there would already constitute a sizable percentage of the cost to make.

      Since you would have to give companies some kind of "incentive" (let's call it a tax cut or even bribe, your pick), companies might even welcome your suggestion since it means more money for them.

      If anything, the "Made in the U.S.A." tag would have to mean that the item was entirely made in the US. From raw materials to the finished product. And a marketing campaign would have to accompany it, telling people that if you're patriotic, true blooded Americans, you buy American and watch out for this tag. Add steep fines (and I mean steep, comapny-crippling, not the "part of the calculation" type fees we have today) for fraudulent use.

      Then we can start talking.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    6. Re:I have one sure way by cdrguru · · Score: 1

      I suspect rules like that (which lead to tariffs and import duties) are against the WTO rules.

      We signed onto this plan so we are pretty much stuck with it now. It mandates global free trade amoungst member countries. So you can't select preferences like this - it is called "protectionism" and isn't allowed.

      Bush tried this with steel imports already and got smacked down. Bet Obama tries again, soon. He will likely suffer the same fate.

    7. Re:I have one sure way by bogaboga · · Score: 1

      Ok, define "American Content" in a way that can't be twisted and turned by companies...

      "American Content" has to be vague to some extent. That is, it must be open to interpretation. This way, wiggle room is created. But the gist must be placed on the value of the product.

      If a pair of trousers or pants as they are known in the USA costs, say US$89.99, then we can demand that 50% of that cost must have been contributed by activities in the USA.

      The business of sewing these pants in foreign lands for "peanuts" and selling them for up to 300% in profits will cease. That way, every American benefits. I know because folks the apparel industry are my clients.

      One particular shirt for example, even while on sale for US$19.99, is still sold at a profit. The same shirt could have been sold at US$149.99 just seven months prior.

    8. Re:I have one sure way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, expensive English car builders all live in huts...

    9. Re:I have one sure way by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      50% activity in the US? Easy! You have to unload them at the dock, transport it across the country and sell it. See? 50% activity in the US.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    10. Re:I have one sure way by bogaboga · · Score: 1

      We can aggregate that to strictly mean "value added." So let me see how transporting goods across this great land adds "value" strictly speaking, to them and not just cost.

    11. Re:I have one sure way by gregbot9000 · · Score: 1

      So you're saying that an "American" is somehow intrinsically better then a Mexican, and should have more rights under the eyes of the law? That one group of people is better and more deserving over another, and that it would be right to take what others have to benefit this group through State action? That it's a good idea to steal from the worlds poor so that the worlds rich can keep up it's inflated expectations? Wow, just Wow. You are a danger to every person on this planet.

    12. Re:I have one sure way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once local workers are willing to compete with workers in the rest of the world, then you'll start seeing more products made locally. As long as they keep demanding compensation disproportionate to their value, they'll be passed over.

      (For the record, I live in metro Detroit.)

      You must keep in mind something; you can't possibly compare our cost of living with other countries. Typically in a lot of other countries where jobs have gotten shipped to (Taiwan, China, Malaysia, Philippines, et. al.), they can make significantly less money in American dollars compared to us, yet possess and equal or better standard of living.

      Unfortunately for making a statement like that, it must be understood that we can't "compete" because then our wages will be so low that the very thing that made this country strong (the middle class having expendable income to buy the very things that we created in labs and R&D); you will live a very basic lifestyle. These companies survive and exist because of us buying these products; if a company can't sell to any group of people because they don't have the income to do so, what will become of the company?

      For the record, I'm in Florida, and my colleagues in India in my field make 2.8 times less than I do. However, for me to be competitive, I'd have to be making less than 20k to do the same job. I'd merely exist at that point and nothing more. 20k here does not buy the same standards of living as 20k in India. Even if you count only basic bills (rent, water, electricity, et. al.) and no luxuries (cable, cell phone), you would have very little to no money to do retirements, investments, or anything else.

      Simply put, throwing out this "willing to compete" statement without looking at socio-economic constructs between the USA and other countries shows that the statement and idea has nothing of validity. I suggest that those countries do what we were doing for the past 100 years, create their own industry and try and compete with us instead.

    13. Re:I have one sure way by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Ok, then have some immigrant hot glue some glass beads on the shoe that fall off already before they're delivered and claim they constitute 40% of the cost. So there, satisified?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    14. Re:I have one sure way by Travoltus · · Score: 1

      That's not far enough.

      We'll have to give up our marginally drinkable tap water and breathable air, because environmental laws cost businesses money, too.

      Collapsing factories, kids being killed by faulty machinery...

      Without all of that, we're not competitive.

      --
      --- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
    15. Re:I have one sure way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's more than just the pay of the "local workers". Executive pay must also be curtailed to more reasonable levels; if you believe US workers are overpaid, consider that the US CEOs have the highest ratio of CEO compensation to worker compensation.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_compensation

    16. Re:I have one sure way by gregbot9000 · · Score: 1

      Everything you have said is wrong, I don't mean to be rude, but you scare me.

      Not every American benefits, in fact, no American benefits.

      The consumer who used to buy the pants now has to pay significantly higher prices, forcing them to spend their time patching clothing, and more of their labor hours just to buy clothing. Plus their food prices have gone up since the cotton has to be grown in this country so it now must compete for growing land with food.

      The farmer is losing out because, while food may seem to be a necessity, Americans might be willing to cut back, and cotton pants aren't essentials. So the seemingly higher prices would probably not cover the slump in demand for his crops. And the cost of doing business has sky rocketed since he no longer has access to imported machinery.

      The owner of the business is now deprived of his higher profit stream which helped feed the economy through stock holders and investments.

      The workers are now worse off because you have now forced labor intensive industry onto the economy, without increasing efficiency or anything else, it means their wages may rise but the cost of everything else will rise faster because people who used to use tools to do things that require skill and mechanization for export are now being forced to use their hands to make pants for the domestic market. So that someone who would have gone to college is now stuck toiling in your workers paradise. Sure a lot of it can be mechanized, but at an even greater cost, meaning a loss.

      And lastly you have just curtailed the livelihood of millions of foreigners who had the jobs before. I'm sure in your mind they are slaves being exploited, but the facts on free trade say otherwise.

      And overnight you have a failed state like Zimbabwe

      you are flying in the face of so many basic economic concepts right now it hurts: broken window falacy, substitution, comparative advantage, Free trade, pareto efficiency.

    17. Re:I have one sure way by MrMr · · Score: 1

      What is worse: I have it on good authority that even the atoms of american citizens are all of extraterrestial origin!
      Time to send them back as well.

    18. Re:I have one sure way by MrMr · · Score: 1

      You would be completely right if their value was determined on a level playing field.
      Unfortunately a lot of people live in circumstances that force them to work below fair market prices.
      As long as a company has the liberty to move jobs to those 'cheap spots' while its employees haven't, there is an assymmetry in the relationship that will make the workers in both locations pay for the increased profit margin of the company.

    19. Re:I have one sure way by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      Yeah, sure, that would work great, just like the Smoot-Hawley Act worked so well to fend off the Great Depression.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    20. Re:I have one sure way by mgblst · · Score: 1

      This is so simplistic and idiotic that you should be ashamed of yourself if you are being serious. This is the first though from someone who clearly has no knowledge of the area, and hasn't though out their idea.

      The Problem is then the rest of the world start to introduce the same requirement for their goods. Imagine if the rest of the world required their OS be 70% local - no more windows, no more Intel, no more GM exports. Think about this stuff before you talk shit!

  19. The whole financial system is corrupt by nido · · Score: 1

    SOX is a bit player in a giant swindle. The jobs problem has nothing to do with the lack of venture capital. The problem is the economy is up to its eyeballs in debt, and there's no money to pay the interest due.

    This is due to the debt-based nature of our financial system. See Money and the Crisis of Civilization and I Want the Earth plus 5%.

    If the congress wanted to create jobs, it would issue interest-free money (such as Abraham Lincoln's United States Notes) and spend it directly into circulation on worthwhile projects. The most worthwhile project today is renewable energy technology. Wind farms are probably the best candidate, with hydrocarbon synthesizers to use all the power generated.

    R&D on cold fusion and other paradigm-busting energy technology should get some money too - a Japanese researcher held a demonstration of his Cold Fusion setup in May.

    Fixing the banking system is a good first step for restoring rosperity.

    --
    Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
    www.teslabox.com
  20. SOX created lots of Director jobs by hemp · · Score: 1

    By limiting the number of boards you could participate on, there are now more job available to serve on the Board of Directors.

    --
    Skip ------ See the latest from http://www.anArchyFortWorth.com
    1. Re:SOX created lots of Director jobs by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      The only thing that changed is that some top level managers now have a lot more spare time since they don't have to rush from meeting to meeting anymore and stuff their faces with appetizers.

      You don't think limiting their income would give them any incentive to take their job more serious, do you?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  21. Axe red tape and management by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Simple as that. The boat sinks when you try to make it float with too much brass on board, and you don't win wars with more officers than soldiers. Likewise, you don't run a business sensibly when most of your workforce is concerned with administration and organisation instead of production. There are productive companies here (Siemens, I'm looking your way) that are already called "banks with a real estate branch, and a production department so they don't have to adhere to banking standards".

    Get back to production. Produce something that the economy needs instead of administrating your own demise.

    And to do that, I do agree with the original poster. Get rid of worthless "auditing standards" that didn't produce anything but new jobs for more beancounters. The SOX doesn't do anything. It is another standard to fulfill to the barest minimum whenever some auditing goon arrives, who in turn doesn't care jack whether the company's bosses embezzle money but who just wants to check whether the requirements are met. Tell you something: The requirements are pointless. There are already more than enough ways to circumvent them and go ahead with the old fashion ripping off of investors that always existed. Either start really auditing (but then, some companies would get into serious troubles...) or do away with it. What we have now is a band aid that does at best cover up the bleed, but only 'til it's soaked. Then we slap on another band aid and hope nobody notices that the wound does not close and needs surgery. Yes, that's expensive and it could kill the patient, but either is better than having a thousand people bleed for blood donations time and again.

    Ok, away with bad analogies. I'm sick of seeing my taxes being poured into companies that should by all means crash and burn. If you want to save them, save them. Pick them up, fire everyone from management (NOT the workers, please, they're the one that MAKE money, management is what BURNS it!) and replace them with people who can do their job. I really don't understand why one would give people who have clearly shown they are incompetent and unable to handle the responsibility even MORE money to sink MORE money. Fire those fuckers, replace them with people who know their job, and you can have my tax money!

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Axe red tape and management by alcourt · · Score: 1

      Part of what SOX did is to significantly increase the penalties for auditors certifying something that they shouldn't. In other words, it no longer will take an Enron to get a major auditing group in fairly serious trouble.

      SOX is interesting partly because compliance isn't required at time of audit. What is required is an implementable plan to come into compliance. Then, you have to show you are making real progress on it, or be able to document previously unforseen issues that delayed compliance with that control. This makes a certain amount of business sense. If a major application that is SOX impacted cannot comply with SOX, you can't really shut down the business until you can implement a replacement. It would defeat much of the purpose of SOX. You can however, hold the management's feet to the fire until they do fix the issues.

      --
      "I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend unto the death your right to say it." -- Voltaire
    2. Re:Axe red tape and management by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Yes, that's why SOX audits are a lot more pricy now than other audits were. The fines were factored in. You audit 100 companies, one goes belly up, you get fined. So what do you do? Right. You add 1% of the fine to your auditing fees.

      Do you really think that changes anything?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  22. Just clone him by cmeans · · Score: 2

    Seems like an obvious solution.

  23. How to create more Jobs by ilikejam · · Score: 1

    Just let Steve and his wife get on with it.

    --
    C-x C-s C-x k
  24. If only... by Q-Hack! · · Score: 1

    If only more companies followed the Ferengi rules of acquisition.

    Rule of acquisition #35. War is good for business.

    We are currently at war. If more businesses catered to the war effort there would be more jobs... Doesn't matter if it is in Silicon Valley or not.

    --
    Some days I get the sinking feeling Orwell was an optimist.
    1. Re:If only... by Daimanta · · Score: 1

      "Rule of acquisition #35. War is good for business."

      That's rule #34

      Rule #35: Peace is good for business.

      Source:http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Rules_of_Acquisition

      I remember that Jadzia also mixed those two up.(forgot which episode though)

      Now where's my official geek-card.

      --
      Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
    2. Re:If only... by Chaos+Incarnate · · Score: 1

      That's the 34th rule. Rule #35 is "peace is good for business".

      --
      Benford's Corollary to Clarke's Law: "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
    3. Re:If only... by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      No, Rule 34 states that "If it exists, there is porn of it".

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    4. Re:If only... by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      Now I know how to defeat /b/

      With Ferengi! Let /b/tards troll a fictitious race that seems to consist entirely of greedy, self-centered, humorless assholes.

      (HOLOSUITE IS CLOSED)

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
  25. Such as "lock patents to people" by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

    A refresh of the patent system, in the sense that the ownership of a patent could not be transferred away from the original inventor, might go a long way toward reinvigorating innovation. It's a personal thing, then -- making it worth your while to innovate knowing the patent trolls, law firms, HR policies and accountants can't take away your essential contribution, allowing you to stick your neck out without fear of some industry bullying you out of what's yours. Limit the transfer to licensing, but do not transfer ownership of the instrument itself, nor permit exclusive arrangements that are out of the original patent holder's control. This may or may not be how you do it, but people aren't going to invent if they can't reap the proceeds of their unique contribution to society. This may be excessively Horatio Algier, but dammit I have an idea to build something now and I'm afraid to commit it to paper.

    --
    Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
  26. Re:cancel the h1bs (mod parent back up) by cwcpetech · · Score: 1

    Too many qualified Americans rejected so that H1Bs can replace them (for the same money). Makes no sense whatsoever. Cancel the H1Bs.

    Same with the L1's and other areas. Have an indefinite moratorium on the practice on the condition that it can only return in a more regulated, transparent, citizen-friendly format.

    How true, and it's a shame that they modbomb you in such a way.

  27. radical transparency! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    could clients of banks somehow be able to make it so different levels of transparency were implemented electronically?

  28. Create more Jobs?? NOOOO!!! by commodoresloat · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Look, I love Apple products as much as the next guy, but one Steve Jobs is more than enough for anyone.

  29. Re:Sick and tired of people ragging on mark-to-mar by w3woody · · Score: 4, Informative

    The problem is how does one value an asset that one is holding and that one has not sold yet, since the real value of an asset is what I could get for it on the open market.

    Mark to market simply says that I need to value that asset at the current going rate for similar assets on the open market.

    Now here is where the banks got screwed, and the fun part about this example is that it is currently going on today. Say I bought a 10-year treasury bill for $70 five years ago which will mature in 10 years at a face value of $100, earning around 4% annual interest. What is that asset worth?

    Well, you could say that the asset's value is growing at 4% compounded interest, so the bond is worth $85 today.

    WRONG!!!

    Mark to market says that the asset is worth what I could get for it if I sold it today on the open market. Well, in the open market there is such a rush for cash liquidity that people have been dumping their bond holdings (including treasury bonds). And as we all learned in Economics 101, high supply, low demand translates to depressed prices.

    Which means that if I tried to sell that $100 treasury on the bond market, I may only get $50 for it.

    So, according to mark-to-market accounting, my $100 treasury bought five years ago for $70, whose face value if I simply computed it's value by compound interest would be $85 is actually only worth $50. And it means if I have the regulatory requirement to have a certain asset to liability ratio, my treasury bonds, which are completely and totally secure--the U.S. Government so far has not defaulted on a single treasury--is insufficiently "secure" for accounting purposes.

    It's the primary reason why some people want to do away with mark-to-market rules: because many mortgage backed securities were trading at perhaps 10 cents to 20 cents on the dollar, even when the most pessimistic default rates in the mortgage market would cause the underlying assets (the houses themselves) which comprise the mortgage backed security to be worth maybe 85 cents or 90 cents to the dollar. This 9x deflation in the face value of the instrument was what killed AIG: they had no choice but to value the asset lower than the underlying homes would have been worth in the event 50% of the land mass of the United States was destroyed in a nuclear exchange with the Soviet Union.

  30. Perhaps we need fewer publicly traded companies. by FatSean · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I mean, all those short-sighted boards focused on the next quarter to pacify greedy shareholders don't seem to be good for innovation or the long term.

    --
    Blar.
  31. Take in each other's laundry by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

    Everyone knows that taking in each other's laundry is the key to economic activity. We need a Federal law making it a crime to do your own laundry and a trillion dollars appropriated for the SBA to sudsidize laundry startups and soon we'll all have jobs.

    What? You don't like folding laundry? Not to worry. The laundry industry will have to be properly regulated, of course: now that the free market has been discredited you'll be able to get one of the hundreds of thousands of Federal jobs inspecting and auditing licensed laundries. There will also be plenty of work policing the black market in home washers and supplies. Excess water consumption and/or too much greywater in your sewage will be grounds for a warrant. Plenty of work for all. Fill up the prisons, too. Boom time!

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
  32. Government destroying jobs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The hell you say.

  33. Unemployment solution, courtesy of IT lobbyists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Problem: Americans are out of work.
    Solution: More H1B visas!

    Case closed.

  34. Broken window fallacy by justleavealonemmmkay · · Score: 1

    How exactly is creating jobs a good thing ?

  35. Be careful what you wish for. by jcnnghm · · Score: 1

    You believe the situation would be better without any public oversight and with large companies being controlled exclusively by select individuals (the people that own the company)? You don't want to see entrenched publicly traded companies challenged by newcomers? You honestly believe that publicly traded companies don't innovate?

    --
    You don't make the poor richer by making the rich poorer. - Winston Churchill
    1. Re:Be careful what you wish for. by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not recently, they don't. For the past decade or more, small companies build the new stuff and either get bigger or get bought by big companies.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    2. Re:Be careful what you wish for. by Jeff+Hornby · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Small companies like Toyota with hybrid cars? Or the advances in cell phone technology like Samsung and Nokia? High definition television? the International Space Station? The fact is most innovation comes from bigger companies. Google is so amazing because PageRank was an innovation. Most other startups are only applying existing technologies in a new way.

      --
      Why doesn't Slashdot ever get slashdotted?
    3. Re:Be careful what you wish for. by Al+Dimond · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Toyota didn't invent hybrid drivetrain technology (which has been around for ages) or even the hybrid car; they didn't really invent much, just applied lots of existing technology and used their size and market presence to bring it to market.

      Cell phone history seems to include lots of big names like Bell Labs and Motorola, so one point to the big guys there.

      HDTV doesn't count as much innovation in my book. It's... TV, just more pixels. Image processing circuitry had been driving computer monitors with higher resolutions for years -- the ball was on the tee for them, all they had to do was not pull a Charlie Brown.

      I think you're acknowledging that Google wasn't even a company yet when its founders came up with PageRank, right? Ever since Google got big we've seen them buy more neat stuff than they've written. And generally take on projects that require big size more than big ideas.

    4. Re:Be careful what you wish for. by Jeff+Hornby · · Score: 1

      My point with Google is that they were one of the few small companies that were truly innovative. And PageRank is the only real innovation that I can think of that Google has made (pretty much all of their other offerings are just good applications of existing technology, specifically HTTP requests which invented by Microsoft).

      But I stand by my thesis that most basic innovation is coming from large companies. We don't get a wow from it because most innovation is incremental. For example, GE has done some amazing things with MRIs in the past ten years. Each new model wasn't really all that different from the model the year before but looking at them right now compared to ten years ago is pretty impressive.

      --
      Why doesn't Slashdot ever get slashdotted?
    5. Re:Be careful what you wish for. by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      Sure, pick the one or two big companies that still do innovation; my point still stands: small companies drive innovation and either get bought or big. I'm not sure how you think that MS invented HTTP - that was Tim Berens Lee. find me a big company that's been doing serious innovation in the last decade, I dare you. Most of it is from small companies and universities.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    6. Re:Be careful what you wish for. by Al+Dimond · · Score: 1

      What he's talking about with "HTTP Request" is (IANA Ajax Whiz, so apologies if I'm spelling/capitalizing this wrong) XmlHttpRequest, which is, as I understand it, the final piece that made AJAX possible.

      To address the bigger point, we seem to be talking about different types of innovation. Basic science research, and building (or incrementally improving) very expensive but low-volume devices like MRI machines and space stations, is dominated by large corporations and governments. They're the only ones that can pull it off. At the risk of sounding buzzwordy, I was thinking more about "disruptive" technologies. Things that change the way people think about an industry or some aspect of their lives. What really makes this type of innovation happen isn't raw technical genius, but great vision in finding something to apply technology to. Once someone comes up with the idea it might be easy to copy, but only a rare mind will come up with the idea.

    7. Re:Be careful what you wish for. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Disruptive tech is exactly the sort of thing that doesn't show up in large companies - they're usually concerned with maintaining their cashflow than changing the world.

    8. Re:Be careful what you wish for. by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      From having worked on both small and large environments: you have been drinking too many middle management martinis. Large companies create layers of bureaucracy and 'resource management' that may be necessary to keep a large group organized, but directly interfere with new development. The ease of trying out a new idea when you can find the person who controls the server, or wrote the original tool, down the hall and don't have to percolate your idea up and back down through 4 layers of manager, each of whom requires a full justificationi for spending the manpower, none of whom are technically adept enough to understand what you're talking about, is an amazing pain.

      Worse, those layers of management also cost money and time to support, so the benefit of small, incremental improvements has to be weighed against the cost of the management to do them, and this alone makes many small improvements no longer worth pursuing. This also gets worse when the installed client base for a product is larger: Q/A to test a change against the full range of configurations becomes hideously expensive, so small changes become far more dangerous to even try.

      It's true that for some large scale technologies, you need large scale resources to pursue them. Hybrid cars are such a case, because building big factories to get economies of scale takes a lot of money. But frankly, there is very little innovative about electic cars.

    9. Re:Be careful what you wish for. by Jeff+Hornby · · Score: 1

      I've given two examples of companies that have been innovative in the past ten years. How about you give he names of some small companies that have been innovative? Not just companies that have created new products based on existing technologies but real innovation based on real technological advances. And for a real challenge, try to come up with companies outside the world of software.

      --
      Why doesn't Slashdot ever get slashdotted?
    10. Re:Be careful what you wish for. by Jeff+Hornby · · Score: 1

      It sounds like you're working in an area of a company that doesn't do innovation. I'm going to assume that you're a software developer (and since this is Slashdot, I've probably got about an 80% chance of being right). If you're working at a bank, or a manufacturing firm, or any other non-software company, of course you're not going to be doing innovation. Real innovation for software will come mostly from software companies along with a few innovations from other areas that have lots of money and absolutely need certain advances (e.g., I read that some of the best research in functional languages was being done in the high finance sector because they need parallelism). The fact is, advances in cars are going to come from car companies, advances in medicines are going to come from pharmaceutical companies.

      --
      Why doesn't Slashdot ever get slashdotted?
    11. Re:Be careful what you wish for. by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      Mozilla, Transmeta, Google, Yahoo, Facebook, Napster. Cognio (built wireless sensing and location tech).

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    12. Re:Be careful what you wish for. by Jeff+Hornby · · Score: 1

      Mozilla - application of technology developed at CERN by Tim Berners-Lee
      Transmeta - innovations that failed to deliver
      Google - PageRank already acknowledged, no other innovations
      Yahoo - application of technology developed in academia
      Facebook - blogs, internal e-mail, instant messaging and pictures - not seeing a lot of innovation
      Napster - somewhat innovative application of technology that had existed for decades
      Cognio - never heard of them, wikipedia says what they do but nothing about them stands out as particularly innovative

      Sorry, still not seeing al

      --
      Why doesn't Slashdot ever get slashdotted?
    13. Re:Be careful what you wish for. by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      Well, I'm not a 'developer' per se. I primarily clean up messes left by developers who've not paid attention to necessary resources or software requirements. But as a technically adept person who sometimes writes their own tools or tries to integrate tools from others, I see a lot of small "innocations" in both core projects and ancillary toolkits hamstrung by the bureaucracy and infrastructure of large companies. It can be extremely nasty to get an Active Directory management team, for example, to cooperate in setting up consistent account information or hardware management for Radius, LDAP, NIS, DNS, DHCP, or Kerberos services that are not part of their existing desktop deployment model. So systems administrators or developers can 'innovate' all they want, but they're often blocked from testing and integrating their changes by the infrastructure team.

      Even simple resources such as source control or backup tools to provide developer access to snapshots of their work areas can be a nightmare to implement because there are 'data retention policies' which have to do with regulations but nothing to do with actual usage. So there's a tremendous amount of 'innovation' that gets wasted dealing with the very slow responses of large companies to local requirements.

    14. Re:Be careful what you wish for. by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      It doesn't matter if they're successful, just that they innovate. Mozilla grew the web browser into what you see today, Transmeta built chips based on a new approach to design. Google - pagerank, yeah, but they also made the first web ads that don't piss me off. Yahoo developed the portal, Facebook is a hugely successful social site, Napster built what could've been the future of music, and cognio figured out how to locate wifi and radio interference sources using a handful of sensors.

      Compare that with the innovation of, say, MS.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    15. Re:Be careful what you wish for. by Al+Dimond · · Score: 1

      You seem to have a weirdly limited view of innovation. Facebook didn't invent any new Internet protocols but it changed the way that people interact socially, starting an entirely new type of business while at it (for the record, I don't like Facebook very much, but its impact has been huge). Compare to your example of HDTV: people watch the same crap, just with more pixels.

      Or hybrid cars. Toyota (following Honda's less successful attempt) synthesized some existing tech with stuff they came up with themselves and built a commercially-viable hybrid. Neat. But not life-changing -- people still drive the same places they always did and the improvements in fuel efficiency and operation cost are incremental, not revolutionary. The invention and popularization of the auto in the first place, however, was revolutionary. It was mostly done by private inventors and newly-founded companies. They became giants because of their early innovation. Aviation was also largely pioneered by small businesses, private inventors, and scientists inventing the study of aerodynamics, though it took longer for the impact to reach even the middle class of rich countries.

      I absolutely acknowledge that in mature fields you can't do much innovation without lots of capital. The founders of Facebook couldn't have made HDTVs, hybrid cars, or Windows Vista. That didn't stop them from doing something more important.

    16. Re:Be careful what you wish for. by Jeff+Hornby · · Score: 1

      I don't think that you and I have the same definition of innovation. Unless your company is creating new protocols and products that compete with the ones that you've mentioned, they're not really innovating in this space. They're using the tools that are available to them (or perhaps not using the tools as you seem to indicate).

      If you want to know whether or not you're company is innovating, look at their core business. If it's a manufacturing company are the products you sell an improvement over last years products in a new and substantial way? Does a financial services have new ways of investing or protecting your money (and there will probably be a lot of those in the next little while aimed at protecting investments)? These are where companies are and need to be innovating. There is a whole world out there beyond your computer screen where people are doing things that have nothing to do with information technology but are still innovative. And most of these people are working in large enterprises.

      --
      Why doesn't Slashdot ever get slashdotted?
    17. Re:Be careful what you wish for. by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      We're definitely not using 'innovate' the same way. There is plenty of small-scale innovation available for even quite standard products, to improve its performance, to reduce its cost, to improve reliability or ease maintenance or security, etc. The idea that 'innovation' only includes entirely new products sold to customers, or to major new product lines, is in fact demonstrably false. It's true that a large-scale innovation for a new product can take a big company to support, but it's the role of plenty of employees here on Slashdot to provide the modest changes and often innovations to improve their workplace and their products in-house. It's insulting not to count those as 'innovation', because those modest improvements and features are often what distinguish the best tools and products from the mediocre majority. They're also often the difference between profitability and bankruptcy. For examples of the small scale innovation approach, look at the evolution of the Linux kernel, gcc, Apache, and Firefox.

      Doing only major releases cripples a lot of products and makes them difficult to use, or to market, because the fixes you need are held up behind 'new paradigms' that customers neither want nor need. That's what happened to Vista: the big changes were so big, and so unwieldy, and so undesired by customers and partners, that they swamped out the numerous small improvements and made them not worth investing in. So now we're essentially stuck at Windows XP until the next major release, and all those small improvements are not only delayed, they are likely to destabilize the next major release because they haven't been fully explored.

  36. If India & Pakistan use the 'Murderface' optio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ..this will create a LOT of *legitimate* jobs. Just think of all those 'coders' [more like Javascripters] who will be taking up arms.

    Who *isn't* annoyed at all the 'senior developers' from Mumbai asking CHILDISH questions on LinkedIn and other places?

    Who *isn't* annoyed at cleaning up basic student programmer mistakes as done by 'senior' programmers in Mumbai? Or their idea of so-called 'quality'?

    Seriously. While Chinese, Filipinos and Eastern Bloc programmers/testers really bust their tails, is anyone going to miss the Indians or the Pakis? Or their 'cram schools'? Or their lackadaisical idea of schedule?

    Demand is pretty much fixed. Wiping out cheap/shoddy/inferior labor supply is the way to 'fix' this problem.

    War is a good way to do that. It's about time the Indians actually 'man up' and git'r done.

    Seriously. A

  37. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 0

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  38. Re:Sick and tired of people ragging on mark-to-mar by Ammin · · Score: 1

    So . . . you have safe government bond that would return something in the neighborhood of 12% interest over five years if purchased for $50. I'll take as many of those $100 treasury bills that mature in 2014 for $50 as you can offer. In other words, this is totally ridiculous. And given the amount of my money that AIG has already gone through, I'd have to say those assets are probably overvalued at 20 cents on the dollar.

    --
    Step out the front door like a ghost into the fog . . .
  39. Everything is free in the new economee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    "capital is no longer necessary to start companies"

    That's right. Food is now free. Power and equipment is free. Rent has been abolished. Accountants are free.

    Repeat after meee, everything is freee in the new economeee.

    1. Re:Everything is free in the new economee by Score+Whore · · Score: 4, Funny

      That's right. Food is now free. Power and equipment is free. Rent has been abolished.

      I thought mom and dad provided all that.

    2. Re:Everything is free in the new economee by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      If by 'mom and dad' you mean 'the faculty' then you may well be right.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:Everything is free in the new economee by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "If by 'mom and dad' you mean 'the faculty' then you may well be right."

      Nah..at this point, I think many people think it means Barrack and Michelle....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  40. Why would anyone want to CREATE jobs? by Sloppy · · Score: 1

    Progress would be the elimination of jobs. Then we sit back in leisure as our robot slaves toil for our benefit.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  41. PWC & Madoff by Bob9113 · · Score: 1

    Price Waterhouse Cooper - one of the biggest SOX auditors - are also the brilliant investigators who audited Madoff.

    If you can't find billions of dollars worth of fraud - the largest Ponzi scheme in history - I must question the purpose of audits.

  42. Yeah, that's a big part....another is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...to lower the "taxes on the rich!"

    The Left bitches about them getting tax breaks, but have you ever been employed by a person on welfare? No! It's the rich that invest, making jobs (when they're not taxed to death...)

    It's no wrong to make money. George Soros does it all the time. And much of his stays off-shore. It's not widely known, but he's one of the biggest hedge-fund people of all time: "the greedy wall street".

    But when a person makes more than his peers, it's 99.5% of the time, because of hard work. And when they invest it, they risk it, and almost always employ people.

    Keeping ridiculous laws like this at bay are a big step...keeping it cheap to start a business in America is just as important.

  43. There are too many jobs by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 0
    There are too many jobs. It's almost as bad as 1999/2000 when anyone that could spell computa could get a job in the industry. As a result quality suffered.

    What we need is fewer jobs to make more competition and get rid of the useless.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
    1. Re:There are too many jobs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sieg Heil! o/

    2. Re:There are too many jobs by mikael_j · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I would like to know where you are so that I can relocate, around here there are generally 50+ qualified applicants for every real IT/development job advertised. A lot of qualified people with college degrees in CompSci/CompEng are doing first and second line tech support at various call centers in the area because there are so few "real" jobs available...

      /Mikael

      --
      Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
    3. Re:There are too many jobs by Saysys · · Score: 1

      If they can't find a good job then they should get more education. A simple BS in CE is not good enough to work at, say, Intel, but a masters from a reasonable institution is.

      If they can't do that then teaching is an option...

      The truth is being qualified, smart and dedicated is what gets you a job and a degree shows a potential employer you have two of those three things, unfortunately it is neigh impossible to prove qualification without previous experience.

      the solution? 1.) intern 2.) get a higher degree 3.) start your own firm or 4.) do something you are qualified to do.

    4. Re:There are too many jobs by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      around here there are generally 50+ qualified applicants for every real IT/development job

      It's the same around here, but almost all of them currently have well paying jobs. They're just in the habit of constantly shifting jobs. It sucks because it prevents those applicants without jobs from getting seen in the musical chairs game.

    5. Re:There are too many jobs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whoosh!!!

    6. Re:There are too many jobs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I work at a company just north of San Francisco and we're hiring. We've also been dealing with an Agile consultant who works with other small companies and he says that most of those companies are still hiring too.

      The problem is that hiring has gotten a lot harder. The people getting laid off first are predominantly the less productive engineers. As a small company with limited HR resources, it's become a lot harder to sift through all the resumes. Whereas a year ago we may have seen 1 resume in 10 that would qualify the applicant for a phone screen, we're now down to less than 1 in a 100. And from what we've heard, other small companies are having the same problem.

      The only advice I can give is to concentrate on the cover letter. The way we handle it, each technical employee spends 15 minutes per day looking at predominantly cover letters. If the first two sentences don't convey that the applicant has read the job description and is well spoken (it's amazing how many cover letters have grammatical errors), we move on. We only scan the resume for companies names that would indicate that the applicant has worked with someone we know personally so that we can ask a reference ahead of time, and that's only when they've passed the cover letter sniff test.

      There are jobs out there, we're just in a period with a lower signal to noise ratio. As time passes, the noise will be forced to move on to other professions, just as they did after the .com bubble burst. And those of us left will be the ones that do this because we actually like doing it. It's the downside to a profession that pays well and requires little official training to masquerade as qualified. Becoming a doctor or lawyer requires you pass exams and training before you can practice. The tech bar is much lower during the boom periods, especially since what certifications (other than BS CS, MS and PhD) we have are, in my experience, more of an indicator of lack of competency. So we need these down times to weed out those that are only in it for the money.

  44. Re:Sick and tired of people ragging on mark-to-mar by w3woody · · Score: 1

    That's exactly what happened a few weeks ago: a number of assets were being valued at a fraction of their face value and they're being dumped on the open market at fire-sale prices. It is precisely for this reason that the Treasury was looking at allowing banks to swap long-term bills for short-term treasury paper, in order to bolster the value of the treasury assets held by the banks.

    Sadly many of these things seem only available to institutional buyers--otherwise, I'd go out there and start scooping up these cheap bonds myself!!!

  45. The myth that government can create jobs. by k1e0x · · Score: 1

    Sarbanes-Oxley, generally hurts the economy because it places more restrictions and requires more bureaucrats and company employees to comply with.. but does little to actually prevent fraud.

    There is a great myth out there that it's government that creates jobs or politicians that save jobs. The truth is, that where as it is possible for the government to provide someone with a paycheck, that is not a good thing for the economy because in order for them to get that paycheck they had to take the money away from the productive parts of the economy. Government doesn't have anything it did not take from someone else.

    Government has a lot of power to do harm, but little real power to help the economy. For an example of this you can look at all the past stimulus and economic recovery packages passed in an attempt to prevent this current recession we are in. They fail at it not because they aren't trying or are trying the wrong things.. but because the economy is just too vast and complex for anyone let alone those economic wizards in Washington to control. Real economic forces are created by millions of real thinking people with real desires to do what they believe is in their own best interest, one would find it easier to map the human genome or remember all the stars in the galaxy than you would to be able to correctly predict market forces.

    A government created job only makes economic sense if it is something people would have already paid for, and then if that is true.. then there is probbly no need to have them do it at all because private enterprise always does things more efficiently than government. The best thing government can do is get out of the way.

    There are even cases where government prevents certain action by law to "save jobs". The following story from "The Adventures of Jonathan Gullible" of illustrates this:

    --------
    Jonathan walked for several hours without a glimpse of any sign of life. Suddenly, something moved in the thicket and a small animal with a yellow-striped tail flashed down a barely visible track. "A cat," thought Jonathan. "Maybe it will lead to me to other life." He dived through the thick foliage.

    Just as he lost sight of the beach and was deep in the jungle, he heard a sharp scream. He stopped, cocked his head, and tried to locate the source of the sound. Directly ahead, he heard another shrill cry for help. Pushing up an incline and through a mass of branches and vines, he clawed his way forward and stumbled onto a wider path.

    As he rounded a sharp bend in the trail, Jonathan ran full tilt into the side of a burly man. "Out of my way, runt!" bellowed the man, brushing him aside like a gnat. Dazed, Jonathan looked up and saw two men dragging a young woman, kicking and yelling, down the trail. By the time he caught his breath, the trio had disappeared. Certain that he couldn't free the woman alone, Jonathan ran back down the trail looking for help.

    A clearing opened and he saw a group of people gathered around a big tree--beating it with sticks. Jonathan ran up and grabbed the arm of a man who watched the others work. "Please sir, help!" gasped Jonathan. "Two men have captured a woman and she needs help!"

    "Don't be alarmed," the supervisor said gruffly. "She's under arrest. Forget her and move along, we've got work to do."

    "Arrest?" said Jonathan, still huffing. "She didn't look like, uh, like a criminal." Jonathan wondered, if she was guilty, why did she cry so desperately for help? "Pardon me, sir, but what was her crime?"

    "Huh?" snorted the man with irritation. "Well, if you must know, she threatened the jobs of everyone working here."

    "She threatened people's jobs? How'd she do that?" asked Jonathan.

    Glaring down at his ignorant questioner, the supervisor motioned for Jonathan to come over to a tree where workers busily pounded away at the trunk. Proudly, he said, "We are tree workers. We knock down trees for wood by beating them with these sticks. Sometimes a hundred people, working round-the-clock, can

    --
    Bringing liberty to the masses. - http://freetalklive.com/
  46. One coin. Two sides. by copponex · · Score: 3, Interesting

    When you don't tax capital, it moves too quickly, and causes too much boom and bust. That's why western countries have rules against capital flight, and some european countries have a token tax - a fraction of a percent - for every stock transaction to slow people's overreactions.

    Personally, I have a somewhat libertarian ideal - eliminate corporations as they are known, and remove the corporate veil of protection for most companies, except for special charters given to insurance companies and other temporary projects - bridge building, mass transit, internet service, etc. There's no reason to grant a corporation special status unless it is doing something beneficial for the community.

    I think it would keep companies small and healthy, and keep large, sensible corporations very well regulated. Just require total transparency, and you'll keep the crooks out. But while the crooks are still ruling the White House, the rich are still making the rules.

    1. Re:One coin. Two sides. by evanbd · · Score: 1

      Corporate bankruptcy protection makes a lot of sense. I should be able to create a company and get investors, and protect them from losing more than their investment. Otherwise investors become very scarce for any project that's not obviously going to work, which is a bad thing. Lots of new companies fail, and that is a fine way for the world to operate.

      The concept that a corporation can behave in an illegal manner without any of its employees / owners having done something illegal, however, makes no sense to me. By all means, make that part of the corporate veil weaker.

      As long as lenders are aware of the existence the liability limitations, they can lend accordingly. I see no problem with liability limitations for financial matters, only criminal ones.

    2. Re:One coin. Two sides. by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Just require total transparency, and you'll keep the crooks out

      Companies have reasons other than criminality for certain information to remain hidden, for example to prevent competitors stealing customers or to protect employees' privacy.

      Only in the theoretical world of libertarianism/pure capitalism is there perfect information and perfect competition.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  47. we need to get with the new programme... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...collectively, we need to realise that unemployment is a benefit of a technologically advanced society.

    (props to, um, robert anton wilson maybe? or someone like him)

  48. One Word...... by Dan541 · · Score: 1

    Genocide....

    --
    An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
  49. Baloney. It's "offshoring" that killed SV by Animats · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Silicon Valley used to be about manufacturing. ICs were actually made here, along with many of the products that used them. Intel, National Semiconductor, and HP all had big manufacturing facilities in Silicon Valley. National Semi watches and HP calculators were made in Silicon Valley. Amdahl mainframes were made here. Dozens of disk drive companies made hard drives. Apple used to make Macs in Fremont.

    When the manufacturing went offshore for cheaper labor, the production engineering followed. Slowly the fab technology industry moved to Japan and Taiwan. Then the actual IC design work went offshore. Now, the entire consumer electronics industry is outside the US.

    Anyway, Sarbanes-Oxley doesn't apply at all while you're venture-funded. Only at the IPO stage does it matter. At that point, you have to provide a very detailed prospectus, which isn't a new requirement. Sarbanes-Oxley isn't that much of a hassle to comply with for a straightforward manufacturing company. Only when the financial structure is "creative", with special-purpose entities, multiple corporations under one parent, and similar gimmicks, is compliance a problem. That's why the WSJ is grumbling - it makes financial gimmicks less desirable.

  50. An Army of Jobs? by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

    Why we need more Jobs? I think one instance is enough.

    I'm thinking more like "The Matrix" agents, but Jobs, all with black pullovers. About 300,000 of them.

    They could come up with butt-loads of innovative, high tech devices, that we never before realized that we really needed.

    Like, the iNose (helps you to avoid bad oysters), the iCrotch (helps you to avoid . . . um, never mind). And iSo-on.

    The problem would be at the MacWorld keynote, when the announcer asked, "Can one of you Jobs come up here and give a speech?"

    All 300,000 would charge up, and create conditions that the Large Hadron Collider could only dream about.

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    1. Re:An Army of Jobs? by TheLink · · Score: 1

      I don't think there'll be enough handicapped parking spaces at MacWorld for all 300,000 of them.

      --
  51. TechShit by Jack9 · · Score: 1

    More soapbox wisdom from the aggrandizers at that shithole, Techdirt. It's in their charter to assemble flamebait out of rumor. Not news.

    --

    Often wrong but never in doubt.
    I am Jack9.
    Everyone knows me.
  52. Nothing learned, Nothing Remembered by Mutatis+Mutandis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    SOX was the reaction to a series of big financial scandals, with the Enron affair being the best remembered. But back then, the reaction of many financial experts was to point out the deficiencies of SEC oversight and the weaknesses of the American GAAP accounting rules. The suggested answer was to seriously improve SEC oversight and adopt international IAS standards for accounting.

    Instead we got SOX, an only too typically American solution, which puts its faith in forms and auditing. I think at the root of this is the Protestant mindset brought along by the Pilgrim Fathers, which insists that if something is printed on paper it must be true. It is the same mindset that requires travellers to the USA to confirm in writing that they are not terrorists.

    And we got -- yes! -- another big financial crisis, caused by lax SEC oversight and creative financial practices. Well, even bigger and badder, if that helps.

    Some people never learn...

  53. proof? by thermian · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Ok, you've got my interest, but please state your affiliation. Are you involved with fairsoftware in any way? I read your previous comment, and that made me look the company up, but I didn't do anything at that point.

    I've tried twice to start the same company (MMO games programming software house) in the last two years, but each time I've failed because the people who stated interest weren't really keen on the amount of work involved.

    Skeptical I may be, interested I am, but I have a good memory, so be honest, are you affiliated? Or just a satisfied customer?

    --
    A learning experience is one of those things that say, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' - D. Adams
  54. Re:Sick and tired of people ragging on mark-to-mar by mdda · · Score: 1

    Bad example. Treasury rates have fallen. The mark-to-market value of your hypothetical bond would be something like $105.

    A better example would be a corporate bond, where it's true that values have fallen dramatically. But then 'formerly solid' corporates (eg: GM & Ford, Bear & Lehman) are now revealing how risky they really are. The market isn't necessarily wrong in lowering the prices : risk premia have gone up for everything.

    I might accept your argument for accrual accounting if the money funding the asset purchase was also long-term (match funded), since then the accounting artifacts wouldn't matter so much. But, basically the whole credit crisis has been caused by a fundamental funding mis-match : investors were funding 30-year mortgages using 3-month money (with the additional assumption that houses would continue to rise in value at 4% p.a. ad infinitum).

    Something had to break.

  55. Re:Madoff & Friehling & Horowitz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Madoff leveraged auditors Friehling & Horowitz to pull off his scam. Where did you read PwC?

  56. Re:Sick and tired of people ragging on mark-to-mar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Wildfires, earthquakes, and floods do not time the market for the "right" time to liquidate. If AIG was hit by a large claim (they are an insurance company after all) that required that they dip into their assets, what value would they have gotten when they liquidated their hypothetical bond? The amount that they could sell it for that day. If AIG cannot raise the funds it needs to service its customers, it defaults and the US government picks up the tab. These are the reasons for regulations on insurance companies and for Mark to Market.

  57. noticing reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, what I have noticed is they changed the way they report total unemployment figures. A lot of people who are unemployed are not counted, and even then it is close to 7% now, with a half million job losses just in November. Real unemployment is probably a lot closer to 10% right now by the older rules, which is not "low". And in some states like in the rust belt, it is well into the teens already. They cook the books, man. Just like they decided to take food and energy costs out of the cost of living index, it makes it look better. Just like they stopped publishing the real M3 stats, they can play make believe that inflation isn't rampant.

  58. Never by The+AtomicPunk · · Score: 1

    You'll never roll back Sarbanes-Oxley. The accounting firms' own too much of Congress. It's all about funneling billions into the hands of accounting firms, so they can keep paying off Senators and Representatives. This is very little different than any other government intrusion regulating private enterprise - completely ineffective in it's stated goals, but funnels lots of cash into those that "contribute" to elections.

  59. Re:Sick and tired of people ragging on mark-to-mar by Tiro · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Wow you're stupid.

    The first pillar of Basel II already addresses your issue regarding the risk of sovereign debt.

    AIG was killed by ridiculous exposure to credit default swaps, not CMOs on their books. It was predefined how they were to pay out in response to mortgage defaults (which they failed to model accurately).

    With regard to banks, it's ridiculous to say that they got "screwed" as they were using the value of overpriced assets to overleverage during the credit boom. That rule works to their "benefit" in boom and forces them to stay solvent (or close) in bust.

    Frankly the problem isn't that MTM rules are being used too strictly, rather they are being applied too loosely--and we have walking dead banks that NEED TO GET CLOSED soaking up capital from the Fed and refusing to lend. The Japanese had this problem and are warning us not to repeat it.

  60. A few simple things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This ain't rocket surgery, folks. Economics is really simple.

    1. Repeal Sarbanes-Oxley
    2. Pass the Fair Tax
    3. Nationalize the Federal Reserve
    4. Privatize Fannie and Freddie
    5. Cut capital gains taxes to near zero (1% sounds fair)
    6. Repeal the death tax
    7. Cut spending, cut spending, cut spending!!!

    You'd have to hide to keep from working and money would flow into this country the likes of which even God has never seen.

    Oh, and I know I'm dreaming,, but I'd like to see the death penalty for politicians who betray the public trust.

    1. Re:A few simple things by jcr · · Score: 1

      I agree except for #3 and #4. The fed should be abolished, not nationalized. Fannie and Freddie should be liquidated: as long as they're allowed to continue to exist, they will continue to corrupt the congress.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  61. Sarbox kills productivity by Russ+Nelson · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Sarbox kills productivity. I have a customer who won't let me log in to do work because their auditor claims that if they ACTUALLY LET ME WORK, they'll have no control over, nor knowledge of, what I've done -- and Sarbox requires that they have both. It's an evil law and MUST DIE.

    --
    Don't piss off The Angry Economist
    1. Re:Sarbox kills productivity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Basically, the auditor isn't comfortable saying that they trust you doing unmonitored work like the company is. As a shareholder, I shouldn't have to just "trust" you. I should be able to have control over, and knowledge of what you have done (maybe not in detail, but something).

      That company needs to build a monitoring solution for your work to build some responsibility and accountability into it. OR, you can have a service agreement which places a lot of liability onto you (you don't want this).

      Of course this all maybe in place, and the auditor is too incompetent to understand, or the company isn't good at explaining, or both. In which case, that sucks, but is no different than idiot bosses who can't do your work if their life depends on it.

    2. Re:Sarbox kills productivity by moosesocks · · Score: 1

      How about fixing the flawed portions, rather than repealing the whole thing?

      Seems like a bit of a kneejerk reaction to me.

      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
    3. Re:Sarbox kills productivity by gabrieltss · · Score: 1

      AMEN! I have worked several places where developers and IT folks litterly get their hands tied to their chairs. SarBox is a big FUCKING waste of time and money. They things it was supposed to put a stop to HAVEN'T stopped! There is still rampant corruption going on at the top levels of major companies - hell look what happened to all our bug FUCKING banks! They are all corrupt - did Sar-Box stop the bullshit they pulled - HELL NO! I say they should repeal Sar-Box and impliment a new better law - you do some corrupt shit you get your balls/tits cut off on national television - no ands, if's or buts!

      --
      The Truth is a Virus!!!
  62. bring it on by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

    There are many bad things about SOX, PCI-DSS, HIPAA etc.

    But let's not throw out jr. with the soapy water...

    To some degree, writing and re-writing systems to meet the various strictures brings jobs to me and the slashdot groupies.

    And in some cases, the regulations embody things that should have been common sense proper practice. By and large, the corporations that were doing things in a ludicrous, lazy and irresponsible way are the ones that forced the government to act and are complaining the loudest now. You don't believe the government likes to actually do anything do you ?

    Nothing is all good or all bad in this world (outside of christian radio stations) and these regulations have good and bad in them.

    --
    Nullius in verba
    1. Re:bring it on by Dunkirk · · Score: 1

      The only thing good about SOX is the intent. Just like every other government social program, which is exactly what that mess is. A couple of huge AUDITING COMPANIES failed to do what they were PAID TO DO, and the result was massive new legislation that... wait for it... MANDATED MORE AND STRICTER AUDITING. Now, I'm just a lowly mechanical engineer who does a lot of programming and system administration, but this sounds just like the way the government "punished" Microsoft for being a monopoly -- give millions of dollars of Microsoft software to schools, further entrenching their monopoly!

      Up until 8 months ago, I worked for a company that bought the SOX ruse hook, line, and sinker. When it passed, we hired a goofball to head up internal audits. He just pulled a whole bunch of whitepapers off the internet, and made them our policies. Never mind that none of them were consistent, even within themselves, let alone each other. Then we had auditors flowing through the IT department seemingly every other month. Now, if they don't find anything, they're not really doing their jobs, now, are they? So what did the auditors do? They started making stuff up. Stupid crap that did nothing to enhance security or accountability. And we hemorrhaged money for this nonsense.

      After YEARS of talking about it, I finally got the ear of a VP of IT, and started the ball rolling to rewrite the most heinous parts of the policies. It wasn't perfect, but it was a lot better.

      And then our division got divested to a private equity company. Finally!, I thought. Now we can roll back some more of the ridiculous policies that remained that just made working in IT a pain in the neck. After all, not being public any more meant that we weren't subject to SOX. But, sadly, no. The point of being "private equity" is to spin the company public again, so why get rid of all the bureaucracy when the buyer is just going to want it all back in place anyway.

      Even though I'm an engineer, I've taken a basic accounting course. I understand the concept of segregation of duties. But when corporate IT policy demands that I wait a week to get a simple account made because I have to go through a Remedy system, and get 4 people to sign off on it, that's a waste of time. Especially when you consider that they NEVER TOOK THE ABILITY TO CREATE ACCOUNTS AWAY FROM THE ADMINS. Look, if you're going to set up ONE person to dole out accounts because of "segregation of duties," you have to lock the others out. Otherwise, you've just done EXACTLY what you SHOULD NOT DO. You've purposely created a backdoor that could be used to defraud the company, and the executives sit around saying, "We're compliant!" while the auditors just say, "You're following procedure. No problem!"

      My mind still boggles.

      In your mind, you obviously want to give the people who wrote and passed this steaming turd and the people who implement it the benefit of the doubt. Don't. Because I guarantee that my story has been duplicated in 99% of all public companies since it was signed into law. It's a gargantuan waste of resources. Someone commented that, hey, it provided jobs to us geeks, but it's money the company is NOT using to, you know, PRODUCE SOMETHING OF VALUE, and that ultimately hurts the bottom line.

      --
      Acts 17:28, "For in Him we live, and move, and have our being."
  63. Legalize Marijuana Now! by Baloo+Ursidae · · Score: 1

    Roosevelt famously saved the banking system in his first 7 days in office. On the 8th day, when asked what he was going to do next, he said "I think it's time for a beer," and got the ball rolling to repeal the alcohol prohibition. The newly refreshed alcohol industry was like a stick of dynamite to the economic log jam. How do you put people back to work? Legalize and tax America's number 1 cash crop and start teaching people how to grow.

    --
    Help us build a better map!
    1. Re:Legalize Marijuana Now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't just stop the War on Drugs. How would you justify the hundreds of millions spent on chemical warfare in Central America?

  64. Re:Sick and tired of people ragging on mark-to-mar by ppanon · · Score: 3, Interesting

    How much would you pay for swamp land in Florida? Those homes (and their mortgages) are worth as much as people are willing, or able, to pay. If you've got lots of homes that cost over a million to build, but you only have a few millionaires and most people with far less in assets and income, then only the nicest homes that can actually be sold to the millionaires are worth that much. The rest are only worth as much as people are capable of paying for them. So you can sit on them until inflationary pressures raise incomes to the point where the homes are affordable (and thus lose the value to inflation over time, and pay the property taxes during that time) or you can take the hit now and sell the homes at the price people can afford. At least then you can reinvest your remaining money in a different venture and maybe recoup part of your loss.

    Those securities may be worth more than 20% of face value, but they're worth a lot less than 80% or 90%, because the values of the houses they covered was often hyper-inflated due to too easily accessible credit and occasional deliberate over-assessment by some involved in the house purchase cycle (realtors, mortgage brokers, speculators). The house prices those securities depend on are now adjusting to the real value of that real estate in a sane lending environment.

    The reason why the mortgage-backed securities are at 20% of face value is that the banks or managing agencies don't want to have to pay the property taxes on empty houses for 10 years and yet there's no qualified buyers to sell to. Renting the properties isn't a solution because market rental prices can't cover the mortgage payments. If the defaulters can't pay the mortgage payment, then they won't be able to pay rent to cover the same so the owners will still take a partial monthly loss even if they managed to rent the place while looking for buyers. The boomers with cash are retiring and they don't want their money tied up for the 20 years it's going to take before those homes can be sold without taking a bath at even half of the last assessed value. Due to deregulation, the banks are over-leveraged, so they can't afford to take the loss over that long a period of time. So the house prices are dropping and they are going to continue to drop (in real terms initially or against inflation longer term) for quite a while and the value of those securities is reflecting that.

    That's what you get when you try to treat a durable good as a commodity that people can play speculation games with. When enough speculators decide to leave the inflated market for some reason, market values readjust to their natural state. Have you checked the price of crude oil lately? An inelastic demand curve can account for some of the recent roller-coaster ride in that market, but oil demand isn't so inelastic as to account for >3x price fluctuations on relatively small consumption changes (percentage wise). Speculators who manipulate prices suddenly developing a need for liquidity and pulling out of the market on the other hand...

    --
    Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
  65. Re:Sick and tired of people ragging on mark-to-mar by medelliadegray · · Score: 1

    it's not as simple as you make it out to be. For one, you don't know how many homes in that bond will default. That's a huge landmine, and now the economy's starting to slump, many people can barely afford the homes now, and their rates are only going to go up for a large number of them... Meanwhile, housing prices are slumping 'cause the economy's taking a crap. So what you say, the people default.... the last thing you want is them to default.

    You first have to kick the people out,that'll often take 6ish months to go through the courts. In the meantime you'll have to worry about the cost of homes going down further, marketing the home for sale, maintain it until it's sold, Get insurance on it, pay taxes on it, heating it so the pipes do not break, hope it's not vandalized, hope the people you kicked out of it didn't destroy it, and most importantly pay people to handle all the listed items, and god knows what else i missed.

    I feel it's quite reasonable that people freaked out when they realized their risk exposure was MUCH higher than they were let to believe, so if anything, there should be more regulation requiring MORE transparency.

    --
    Troll, Troll, go away and flame again some other day
  66. Counterintuitive? by westlake · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Groundbreaking software can now be built quickly and cheaply by reusing a lot of existing code.

    I am not quite sure how recycling lots and lots of existing code leads to "groundbreaking" software.

    I am not even convinced that code is the roadblock.

    Microsoft gambled on "the ribbon" and won.

    But Microsoft has the money and manpower to study office work and the office worker in depth.

    It can bring graphic and UI design teams into the picture. Experts in a dozen specialties. It can recruit thousands or tens of thousands of test subjects.

    The developer living out his fantasies of independence on a diet of Jolt Cola and Ramen Noodles isn't going be able to do that.

  67. Public oversight? What about public insight? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Honestly, a lot of board members in companies are worthless. It's ridiculous when, say, a CEO of an airline company is a board member of a tech company. What does he know about it? The only reason they're there is because they know how to make their shareholders money, but nothing about the company they're sitting on. The lowest levels of corporate who actually do the work that keep the company going could probably innovate much better than the head honchos.

    In times like massive economic fail like what we're going through now, I can only sit back and laugh at the tanking stock market and everybody running around like chickens with their heads cut off as if it was some surprise. What were they thinking? Oh, yeah, only short-term gains (like cutting labor in America), the consequence is a long-term slump and a lot of money lost. Maybe if they had nurtured their company instead of constantly worrying about immediate profit, they would've came out ahead.

  68. Take one Job... by Helldesk+Hound · · Score: 0, Redundant

    ... and mate it with another - preferably of the opposite sex and preferably married.

    Viola. More Jobs. ;o)

    Heh heh.

    Yeah - I know - So that was just a tad bit too microsoft even for here. But hey - its Christmas Eve already and an hour ago I finished work for the year. :o)

  69. So creating jobs is a good thing? by Twinbee · · Score: 2, Interesting

    'Creating jobs' isn't necessarily a good thing, no matter how many times people say it.

    What really matters is output and a person's time. It's possible that more jobs will output more, whilst also offsetting the disadvantage of the time taken for that new job.

    However, ideally, we should be looking to *reduce* jobs, whilst maintaining efficiency/output, or even increasing efficiency. When certain tasks become automated, that happens naturally, and it doesn't become a loss of output, but frees up someone's time. Which is a Good Thing.

    In the end, we can use that time for socialising and become explorers, artists, composers, writers, thinkers, recreationists and scientists/researchers (that's not so easy to automate of course).

    Leaving the work to robots/computers.

    --
    Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
    1. Re:So creating jobs is a good thing? by ErikZ · · Score: 1

      So in your ideal world, all labor is done by robots?

      "Freeing up someone's time" also means "You better find a job before you starve to death."

      Jobs are a survival requirement in the modern age. Just like rain and soil in the middle ages.

      --
      Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
    2. Re:So creating jobs is a good thing? by Twinbee · · Score: 2, Interesting

      With a social security type setup (where jobless people will get at least enough money to survive), that shouldn't be a problem. One needn't be jealous of those people, because they're getting less or far less than the paid workers. But in the end we all prosper.

      There's also the risk of an economical downturn where maybe a proportion of those jobless people will suddenly be needed. So not only is everybody richer, but the economy has a safety net.

      --
      Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
  70. The babe in the woods by westlake · · Score: 1
    I own a small business and have been considering hiring someone part time. Unfortunately I have no idea what paperwork needs to be filled out. What do I need to know as far as taxes, etc?

    Good God.

    There are high schools that teach this stuff. Community colleges. It may be called "Adult Education" or "Community Outreach." Classes are to be found everywhere, including your local Senior Center and Public Library.

  71. Agree w/ his premise, but why is he important? by Money+for+Nothin' · · Score: 1

    I agree with the author's proposal of deregulation (at least of the stupid parts of SarbOx).

    But he's a journalist, not an economist or a lawyer; ergo, he doesn't really know anything about the subject about which he is pontificating. Why should we listen to him?

  72. Re:Sick and tired of people ragging on mark-to-mar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Which means that if I tried to sell that $100 treasury on the bond market, I may only get $50 for it.

    I know you're just using it as an example, but you're flat-out wrong. You might get $101 for that $100 t-bill.

    There has been enormous demand for t-bills, because there are large pools of money that want low-risk investments. Having been burned by AAA-rated securities guaranteed by large insurance companies that turn out to be worthless, there is a flight to quality. Demand for US t-bills has been so high that the return has actually went negative.

    In this market, people are willing to loose money so that they are guaranteed the return of almost all their capital.

    So, according to mark-to-market accounting, my $100 treasury bought five years ago for $70, whose face value if I simply computed it's value by compound interest would be $85 is actually only worth $50.

    How else can you determine the value of an asset? What you are proposing is making up the value just because you think it is worth that much. You could be right OR wrong.

    You think the guarantee of the US government is good, but other people might not think so.

    Or, you think the guarantee of the US government is good, but you might think the US dollar is going to rapidly decline against other currencies, so the value of a US t-bill would be less on the world market.

    Or, if interest rates shot up to 11%, the value of your t-bill paying 4% would drop significantly.

    How can you judge the relative default risk of US t-bills, German t-bills, Equador t-bills? The market is usually good at that.

    And it means if I have the regulatory requirement to have a certain asset to liability ratio, my treasury bonds, which are completely and totally secure--the U.S. Government so far has not defaulted on a single treasury--is insufficiently "secure" for accounting purposes.

    Because they aren't totally secure. They are probably the most secure thing you can buy, but there is still a chance that the t-bill MIGHT not be paid. It is possible for the US government NOT to pay. After all, a year ago, would you consider that the government of Iceland wouldn't make good on its promises? Today that is a real possibility.

    The way the US government has been spending huge amounts on TARP funds and other bailouts, and further problems with the economy, the default risk on t-bills today is probably higher than it has been in 15 years. While I doubt they would default on t-bills, who knows what the new US administration & congress will do?

    It's the primary reason why some people want to do away with mark-to-market rules: because many mortgage backed securities were trading at perhaps 10 cents to 20 cents on the dollar, even when the most pessimistic default rates in the mortgage market would cause the underlying assets (the houses themselves) which comprise the mortgage backed security to be worth maybe 85 cents or 90 cents to the dollar.

    Then I'm sure some bright person will swoop in, buy up the distressed debt, and make a killing when the markets return to sanity. Why don't you do that?

    85 cents or 90 cents on the dollar? Ha! Real estate in many, many areas has declined by far, far more than that. In some areas real estate prices have fallen by 50% or more.

    Add to that some of the ridiculous rules in some areas that make it difficult to foreclose on a house. In California, you can now live in your house for a year without making a single mortgage payment. That's nice for the homeowner, but lousy for whoever owns the mortgage.

    It seems the only way to judge if a mortgage backed security is worth anything is to fully investigate the underlying assets, sinc

  73. Opportunity found in difficulty by Tablizer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Sarbanes-Oxley...have managed to kill off an entrepreneurship-venture capital-IPO cycle, centered in Silicon Valley...Basically, all they've done is create new reporting requirements that do little to nothing to either prevent fraud or clarify a company's actual financial position

    Then there's an opportunity for some Silicon Valley co to create great software to simplify the Sarb-ox. reporting so that it's not an impediment.
         

  74. Rightwing Claptrap, to be frank by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Republican dreaming....yawn. It just lets the greedy get greedier until they stumble and fall on the middle class in a nasty Ponzi crash.

  75. Want to revitalize the stock market? by jcr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Eliminate capital gains taxes. The total revenues raised by capital gains tax is around 117 billion a year, which makes an interesting comparison to the magnitude of bailouts already appropriated.

    If cap gains tax was eliminated, there would be an historical market rally. The current strategy of trying to stimulate the economy with ever-larger doses of inflation can't work: see Zimbabwe.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    1. Re:Want to revitalize the stock market? by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      Not that trickle down crap again...

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    2. Re:Want to revitalize the stock market? by jcr · · Score: 1

      Not that trickle down crap again...

      What's your alternative? Hyperinflation?

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    3. Re:Want to revitalize the stock market? by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      Sacrificing financial companies and speculators, and re-industrialization of US economy. Anything else would be merely a way to organize a fire sale, so the richest few will safely get out.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    4. Re:Want to revitalize the stock market? by Alpha830RulZ · · Score: 1

      Eliminate capital gains taxes.

      In the US, they're already down to what is essentially a trivial amount, which doesn't seem to be energizing the market yet. Further, capital gains tax rates only matter when you're making capital gains, which is not really the problem in today's market place.

      Like a lot of economists, I think having differing rates for capital gains from other income is a mistake. It causes distortive behavior, and among other things encourages speculative in capital markets over investment in income producing enterprises, which might form a mort stable base to our economy. If you are a dollar richer because your stock went up, why should that be taxed differently than if you are a dollar richer because you earned salary?

      I think the past reductions in the cap gains rate encouraged many people, myself included to prefer stocks over bonds, flipping real estate to owning rentals, which contributed to the respective speculative bubbles.

      I'd like to see the tax code reworked, simplified, and modified so that income is generally treated as income, and taxed similarly. A kajillion special exceptions, of which the cap gains tax is one, increases compliance costs, and causes folks to think about how to manage their tax bill, rather than how to grow their business. The latter act is better for our nation.

      --
      I was taught to respect my elders. The trouble is, it's getting harder and harder to find some.
    5. Re:Want to revitalize the stock market? by jcr · · Score: 1

      Sacrificing financial companies and speculators, and re-industrialization of US economy

      If you want to see the re-industrialization of the US economy, the way to do that is to remove the insane tax incentives for sending manufacturing offshore. One of the measures that would help is abolishing capital gains. Another is freeing up the capital markets to make it easier for small businesses to sell shares publicly. An even better one would be abolishing the estate tax, so that smaller companies don't have to be sold to bigger ones when their founders die.

      This concentration of wealth into few and fewer hands is a direct consequence of government policies which we need to abandon.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    6. Re:Want to revitalize the stock market? by jcr · · Score: 2, Interesting

      they're already down to what is essentially a trivial amount,

      A double-digit hit is a trivial amount to you? Don't forget that we overthrew our king over a 2% excise tax.

      I'd like to see the tax code reworked, simplified, and modified so that income is generally treated as income, and taxed similarly.

      I'd prefer to get away from taxing incomes at all, and go entirely to consumption taxes. We need all the savings we can get.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    7. Re:Want to revitalize the stock market? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why? So that the companies can do that and without even paying attention to the common man long enough to shake his hand? No thanks. Capitalism without regulation has failed worse than Russian communism. Both are equally ridiculous ideas, and the only people who continue to pine for them are zealots and children.

    8. Re:Want to revitalize the stock market? by jcr · · Score: 1

      Capitalism without regulation has failed worse than Russian communism

      Oh really? Would you care to explain when we had capitalism without regulation within living memory?

      We were regulated right into this mess that we're facing today. The federal register grew faster under Bush II than it did under Clinton.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    9. Re:Want to revitalize the stock market? by Vidar+Leathershod · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I agree with your points to an extent, but unfortunately we are in an era of extremely popular class warfare. "I have less money because that guy has more money".

      It's an incredibly simplistic economic worldview, and it is closely tied to the worldview that doesn't understand that corporations don't pay taxes. If the corporation can't pass it's expenses onto the consumer or customer, it is no longer in business. Every expense is and should be passed on to the customer in the form of pricing.

      But for people who don't run a business, this can be a difficult concept to understand. Just like they don't know how much they are really making when they are working for another entity instead of owning their own business. They usually ignore the payroll taxes that the company pays on their behalf, and only see the portion that appears on their stub.

      --
      The brains of a chicken, coupled with the claws of two eagles, may well hatch the eggs of our destruction.
    10. Re:Want to revitalize the stock market? by jcr · · Score: 2, Interesting

      they don't know how much they are really making when they are working for another entity instead of owning their own business.

      That's one of the most insidious things about our current tax system. So many people are happy to get a refund from the IRS, and they never realize what they earned but didn't get to keep.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    11. Re:Want to revitalize the stock market? by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      One of the measures that would help is abolishing capital gains. Another is freeing up the capital markets to make it easier for small businesses to sell shares publicly. An even better one would be abolishing the estate tax, so that smaller companies don't have to be sold to bigger ones when their founders die.

      BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

      BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

      No, really...

      BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    12. Re:Want to revitalize the stock market? by jcr · · Score: 1

      Laugh it up all you want, I'm right.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  76. Re:Sick and tired of people ragging on mark-to-mar by jcr · · Score: 1

    we have walking dead banks that NEED TO GET CLOSED

    The worst part of having zombie banks around, is that as long as the Fed refuses to let them die, there's no way to tell who's solvent and who isn't. That being the case, the only prudent thing to do is sit on whatever cash you have.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  77. There's a whole world out there by qbzzt · · Score: 1

    If complying with SEC rules is such a problem, there's an easy solution. Have the real (US) company owned by a corporation in a different country, and do the IPO in that country. US entities are allowed to invest in foreign countries and vice versa.

    The fact that companies still prefer to have their IPO in the US means that it's not such a big problem, or that the extra trust engendered by the SEC is worth the extra cost.

    --
    -- Support a free market in the field of government
  78. I couldn't agree more ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    ... As someone who works (as a regular peon) in a company that used to be a startup but then got sold to "the man" I couldn't agree more.

    Our company was a far-ahead-of-everybody-else leader in our sector. Then, six years ago, we got bought by a large public company (finance industry). Ever since then, we have done NO progress whatsoever. The only thing we've been working on is various audit compliance, and implementing different obstacles in progress's place (Sarbanes Oxley being the main one).

    We have long gave up the mantle of leadership to other companies. SoX needs to GO!!!

    Posting as AC because I would still like to remain employed there (for time being)

  79. Sarbanes-Oxley is bad, but the SEC is worse. by jcr · · Score: 3, Interesting

    One of the best things that we could do to promote new job creation, is to bring down the barriers to public equity for small businesses. As things stand today, it's just not realistic to go public until you need at least ten million bucks in funding, just because the regulatory requirements for public trading are so onerous.

    If local businesses could sell shares to the public, then a lot of people would invest in their own communities, entrusting their capital to people they actually know and do business with, instead of handing it over to enormous mutual funds. For the small businessman, being able to raise private capital means he doesn't have to get bank funding and pay interest for his operating capital.

    The SEC doesn't protect us from the likes of Enron or Bernie Madoff, and it's not at all surprising that they fail at their ostensible mission. The SEC has nothing to lose when they fuck up. No bureaucrat is going to lose his job for ignoring the warnings and red flags they should have acted on. In fact, just like the public schooling cartel, the SEC will probably get more funding because they failed to do their job.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  80. Re:Sick and tired of people ragging on mark-to-mar by Tiro · · Score: 1

    Think about what you just said. As long as Congress is willing to fund the FDIC, might as well take 3.5% interest on your deposit at a questionably solvent bank.

  81. Re:Sick and tired of people ragging on mark-to-mar by Tiro · · Score: 1

    You only need $10M to get in on the TALF offerings starting in Feb.

  82. Re:Sick and tired of people ragging on mark-to-mar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What? If you can't mark to market what can you mark to, fantasy? You sound like someone with self-interest in not marking to market.

  83. Re:Sick and tired of people ragging on mark-to-mar by jcr · · Score: 1

    The FDIC is another mistake, just like the FSLIC. It forces honest banks to pay for the crooks.

    If people want deposit insurance, they should buy it separately from a private party, which will have an incentive to investigate the bank and set their premium accordingly.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  84. Re:Sick and tired of people ragging on mark-to-mar by omb · · Score: 1

    The fact is that Mark to Market generates false valuations, especially in volatile markets, which is what we clearly have and is (a) easily manipulated (b) daft. It is a BAD rule that only Americans would defend, and it needs to go, not to nothing but to a properly regulated "fair value" rule.

    But it is not only MTM, but also the toleration of Naked Shorts, the abolition of the uptick rule that has set the stage for unprecedented volatility whereby the same people will extract fees and profits from the bailout money.

    You need some regulators who arn't dishonest dumb or blind and prosecutors with a robust view of fraud and misrepresentation. That way walking dead banks can contribute to the infrastructure programs by having their management in road-gangs.

    Believe me, the rest of the world, having been nagegged and bullied by the US have had enough so dont think that the EU and China wont insist that Obama establish a much more transparent system.

  85. Re:Sick and tired of people ragging on mark-to-mar by jyx · · Score: 1

    but.. but.. but.. Hasn't this collapse showed us that it doesn't matter if you've got insurance because its perfectly OK for your insurer to say "whoops, we cant actually cover that", declare bankruptcy and have the CEOs drown their sorrows on their private yachts? (I know bugger all about the bizarre and wonderful world of accounting, money and polities so please enlighten me to how insurance 100% guarantees my money)

  86. Fixing SOX404 by darCness · · Score: 1

    I don't know how many of the people posting about Sarbanes in this thread have actually had to do implementation work in their companies because of it, but I can tell you as someone who has done extensive work on it that it's a way over the top for businesses without huge amounts of resources; that doesn't mean we should scrap it altogether. I've had to do work on change management, privilege separation, accounting, and data reconciliation to support S-O; it's extremely painful. The requirements are probably fine for companies with many hundreds to thousands of employees, but for ones that are 200, 100, or less, it should be seriously scaled down. There should be several levels. Something like:

    S-O Max (5000+ employees)
    S-O Large (1000-4999 employees)
    S-O Medium (500-999 employees)
    S-O Small (100-499 employees)
    S-O Mini (99 or less)

    Each one would have progressively more requirements. For example, at S-O Mini and Small, you'd have much more lax privilege separation requirements (sometimes the DBA is also the Systems Admin) but at S-O Large and Medium, you'd have to have a separate DBA, Assistant DBA, DB Backup operator, Systems Admin, and System Accounting people. The idea of S-O is good, and it seems fairly well thought out if you've read the documentation surrounding it and some of the checklists; the current blanket approach, however, is far too onerous.

  87. Re:Sick and tired of people ragging on mark-to-mar by jcr · · Score: 1

    please enlighten me to how insurance 100% guarantees my money

    Nothing guarantees your money 100%, even if government pretends otherwise. If you buy deposit insurance from a private party, you should do the same due diligence as you would to protect any other transaction.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  88. Clone Steve Jobs? by EmotionToilet · · Score: 1

    At first I thought "How To Create More Jobs" meant they were cloning Steve Jobs. Well... then again... maybe they are...

  89. SOX sucks, but it is NECESSARY by CPE1704TKS · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If you don't think that SOX is necessary, then you don't understand what it does.

    Sarbenes-Oxeley is forcing all public companies to formalize their financial processes. What it is akin to is forcing programmers to document their code, not just comment it, but to create product and design specifications. This is so that it creates transparency so that outsiders, such as investors or auditors, can understand the flow of finances throughout the company. For most large companies, it probably didn't make a huge impact, but where it did make the most impact was for small and medium-sized public companies. It sucks, but it protects investors.

    Why did they implement it? Because of the widespread fraud from the dot-com boom/bust. Before some fly-by-the-night startup can go IPO and make billions of dollars, they will need to submit themselves to this formalization of financial processes so that people can understand exactly what is going on. It sucks, it is onerous, but it is necessary.

    1. Re:SOX sucks, but it is NECESSARY by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      While there is a need for Sarbenes-Oxeley like laws, Sarbenes-Oxeley is a horrible, short-sighted, reactionary implementation.

      It is overly cumbersome, poorly targeted, and is of questionable value in preventing further fraud.

      If you don't believe me, ask some professionals in the field.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    2. Re:SOX sucks, but it is NECESSARY by CPE1704TKS · · Score: 1

      In fact, I did ask professionals in the field, namely several auditors I know that audit many tech companies that you and I both know in Silicon Valley. They all said the same thing. SOX is tedious, but inevitably the transparency they provide is extremely beneficial for investors. The people who work at the companies hate it, but that's not what it's for. It's to protect the investors, something that wasn't around for the dot-com bust.

  90. it's worse than this article by komissar · · Score: 2, Interesting

    i've worked at two publicly traded tech companies in the sales department. it is way worse than this article describes. besides the larger trends described, there are opposite effects that drive innovation out of the google type firms the author says are centralizing technology. the revenue recognition requirements on newly innovated technology for a publicly traded firm is so onerous that publicly traded companies simply get out of certain lines of business rather than go through this. for those of us keeping score at home: a small company can't do it for reasons described in the article, and large companies can't do it for reasons i describe. the whole SOX debacle is revenge of the bean counters. THEY were at fault for not calling enron on their bullshit, and now THEY are punishing US to "ensure" it will never happen again. had they been doing their jobs honestly to begin with, enron, et al would never have happened. now bean counters are enriching themselves by being the "expert" that can get ordinary transactions approved by the auditors. forget the complicated stuff. we REALLY need to throw off the yoke of excessive regulation if silicon valley is ever going to take off again.

  91. SmackDot Oxley by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Whats up SmackDot! Sarbanes Oxley is the shit, I am lovin' it.

  92. put some of these guys in jail already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Personally, I think it's time some of these guys went to jail who are misusing public money. What we need is ENFORCEMENT of the laws already on the books. Not new laws that nobody goes buy.

    Personally, if we have to do without startups is that the worst thing? You have to admit some of those businesses were going through cash like it was out of style. I heard something on tv that I think is very true, "bad deals don't get done during the bad times."

    I think banks should only be in the business of making loans. Not selling them to other people. The "old fashioned" banks are doing well.

  93. Re:Single Tax ~ VAT by ion++ · · Score: 1

    Value Added Tax already does what you propose, except it only applies to things you buy. Some countries has a VAT of 25%, eg. Denmark, but they do also give free healthcare and education to all their citizens.

  94. Does this mean... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that I can move out of my parent's place? That I can stop competing on freelance sites against Ishmar in the Middle-East who only needs .50 cents to live per day, and Mishmish from India who only needs $5.59 a day to eat five full meals AND feed her kid??

    Thanks...

  95. Re:Madoff & Friehling & Horowitz by Bob9113 · · Score: 1

    Where did you read PwC?

    Reuters:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/governmentFilingsNews/idUSBNG7477320081218

    "Dec 18 (Reuters) - Fairfield Greenwich Group, the fund whose clients
    stand to lose $7.5 billion in Bernard Madoff's alleged $50 billion Ponzi
    scheme, is considering suing its accountants, PricewaterhouseCoopers
    (PwC), for failing to detect the fraud, the Financial Times reported on
    its website."

  96. Re:Sick and tired of people ragging on mark-to-mar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And it means if I have the regulatory requirement to have a certain asset to liability ratio

    Here's what I'm wondering. The actual law that forces these financial institutions to close their doors is this one, that requires them to hold a certain amount of assets. Instead of loaning them money to pump up their assets, why not grant a temporary reprieve on the asset requirement?

  97. More Jobs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You mean, how to create more Steve Jobs?

    Buy yourself an apple!

  98. Re:Sick and tired of people ragging on mark-to-mar by Kirth+Gersen · · Score: 1

    w3woody:

    they had no choice but to value the asset lower than the underlying homes would have been worth in the event 50% of the land mass of the United States was destroyed in a nuclear exchange with the Soviet Union.

    Had there been such a nuclear exchange during the Reagan administration, 50% of the USA would have been left, and the rest could have been rebuilt.

    The Bush administration has destroyed the financial system, the military, the international reputation, the civil liberties, the free press, the heavy industry, the high-tech sector, the economy, the Constitution and the heart of the USA. I doubt they will ever be rebuilt, because there is nothing left to rebuild them with.

  99. More workers for the same pay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have travel around the world. I have been at places where there are 3-5 people behind one wicket (and one till) - ONLY ONE COULD WORK AT A TIME! I ask around and basically they all share in what would be considered a livable wage in the west. One person COULD do the job but then you would have the other people unemployed - in the policies of the government it is better to split that money up and have as many people working as possible.

  100. Business taxes by Thelasko · · Score: 1

    Sarbanes-Oxley may be a factor, but I blame the corporate tax structure. Why do massive corporations pay 35% when medium sized ones pay 38%? It's almost like the government is actively trying to prevent innovation and growth.

    --
    One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
  101. Re:Sick and tired of people ragging on mark-to-mar by Ammin · · Score: 1

    Are there specifics? I have no doubt that it's difficult or impossible to sell non-governmental assets because (a) nobody understands them and therefore can't value them, and (b) any asset tied in any way to U.S. home prices or U.S. corporate success has no obvious bottom. What I don't believe is that I can buy 5 year treasury bonds (or the equivalent) that pay 10% or more.
    On the other hand, I can totally understand why the Treasury would want to allow easy swaps from long to short term debt, just not at those prices.

    --
    Step out the front door like a ghost into the fog . . .
  102. You can create more jobs by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    By lowering taxes.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  103. Simple Answer by Overzeetop · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Remove the veil of corporate protection from officers and members of the board of directors. Make them, explicitly, jointly and severally, personally liable for all debts and obligations of the corporation. Make them criminally liable for any acts committed by the corporation.

    Then you can eliminate SOX. There will still be problems, but you'll have asses to kick.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    1. Re:Simple Answer by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      Oh, sure, NOW you suggest it.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
  104. Re:Sick and tired of people ragging on mark-to-mar by karmatic · · Score: 1

    it doesn't matter if you've got insurance because its perfectly OK for your insurer to say "whoops, we cant actually cover that"...
    As opposed to the FDIC?

    The FDIC receives no Congressional appropriations - it is funded by premiums that banks and thrift institutions pay for deposit insurance coverage and from earnings on investments in U.S. Treasury securities. With an insurance fund totaling more than $45 billion, the FDIC insures more than $5 trillion of deposits in U.S. banks and thrifts - deposits in virtually every bank and thrift in the country.

    So, FDIC insurance is wonderful, unless there's an actual bank crash. To put things in perspective, Wachovia had 420 billion in deposits. A bank run would make the FDIC fairly meaningless, very quickly.

    I'd much prefer private insurance - they aren't very efficient, but at least they aren't government. They also tend to spread the risk around a bit more.

  105. Meet Me in St. Louie, Louie! by Bushido+Hacks · · Score: 1

    Sure, California has its plesant climate for most of the year, but it is also one of the most expensive states to operate a business and to live in.

    Not to appear to be thinking of myself (being a St. Louisian who is currently unemployed), but it is far cheaper to operate in the Midwest. I could understand operating on a coastal area if there was something to export, but a river can do just as well, just be sure to get out of its way when it starts to flood if you don't build in a proper place. (Tip: Building on bluffs is way better than building in a floodplain. I'm talking to you, New Town St. Charles!)

    But the TCO in St. Louis is far less than the TCO in San Jose, San Francisco, or Los Angeles.

    Best of all, we don't catch fire every few days!
    The biggest concern of any Tech company on the West Coast that frightens the rest of the company is the concern that some of the big technology companies on the West Coast may be destroyed in a firestorm. I feared for my webhosting service provider's welfare this summer after the great fires that roared through Southern California. Though it did not suffer the damage of fire, the fact that smoke had creeped into their office building was reason enough to stay awake at night.

    --
    The Rapture is NOT an exit strategy.
  106. Re:Sick and tired of people ragging on mark-to-mar by mypalmike · · Score: 1

    This 9x deflation in the face value of the instrument was what killed AIG

    AIG died because they wrote credit default swaps without having anything to back it if things went south. And things went south.

    --
    There are 0x40000000 types of people: those who understand 32-bit IEEE 754 floating point, and those who don't.
  107. Don't blame SO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It sounds like scapegoating to blame SO. Silicon Valley has matured and is no longer going to grow like it did in its youth. Like any other mature industry it is not going to produce jobs or attract vc like it used to. Blaming SO for this is refusing to face reality.

  108. Copyright protection, etc. by avtchillsboro · · Score: 1

    While I realize that this article mostly concerns the impact of accounting rules on job creation in this "sluggish" economy, do other /. readers wonder--as I do--how much of a chilling effect can be attributed to laws unreasonably placing &/or removing 'IP' from the public domain?

    Many have observed that these changes have had the effect of stifling innovation; wouldn't relaxing 'protections' help to stimulate job creation?

  109. As A Biz Owner by Dripdry · · Score: 1

    Here Here!

    I have to run for the holidays, but here's my small opinion:
    We have so much compliance in our 2 person financial planning business (I know we're talking about silicon valley) that it is OUT OF CONTROL. Either you have to work yourself into the ground to do a good job AND file all necessary compliance, or just be lax about actually doing a good job for clients in order to comply and make sure things look nicey-nice. That is, unless you're a big office with multiple staff and planners, which really just turns into sales anyway rather than job well done.

    I KNOW we're talking about Silicon Valley, but I'm telling you it's happening all over. We are hobbling all sorts of industries with compliance issues at a time when we should streamline things. Yes, I know there's been fraud and we must protect workers' rights. I don't know how to deal with that part of the equation. It's going to happen no matter what as the big boys always seem to get a pass. Meanwhile the extra compliance and regulation is KILLING small businesses (who are actually trying to get the job done) like us.

    SOrry to be a bit off topic, but I hope this brings a little perspective to the discussion.

    Happy Holidays everybody!

    --
    -
  110. Correction by FiloEleven · · Score: 1

    Keynes never saw this coming, and Keynes couldn't explain it if he tried.

    I spoke too soon.

    Lenin was certainly right. There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of Society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose.

    John Maynard Keynes

  111. Ummm.... by SRA8 · · Score: 1

    Low capital gains taxes create jobs and wealth. OK, why then, after eight years of capitalist policies and low taxes, do we have record unemployment and why is my 401k half of what it was before? Why hasn't the S&P moved an inch since Bill Clinton left office? Seems like low-tax theories show up everywhere except in investment returns.

  112. Well, crap. by trooper9 · · Score: 1

    I thought this was a cloning article.

    --
    blah
  113. moby duck by moby+duck · · Score: 1

    We all know that correlation isn't causality -- but the trouble with the argument put forth by Michael Malone (actually, echoed by him; it's an old argument) is that it doesn't even have correlation behind it. I have a hard time seeing correlation between the passage of Sarbanes-Oxley and the tanking of IPOs. IPOs tanked before SOX (and not surprisingly, just after the tech bubble burst). After SOX, they were on the rebound. This year they have tanked again (and not surprisingly, in one of the worst economic climates in recent times). Look it up. One may not like SOX, and there are certainly things about it that can be criticized, but it sure is hard to tie it to downswings in IPOs.

  114. How to create more jobs... by beyondgreen · · Score: 1

    The high cost of gas this past year put a hurting on all of us, our economy and our society. We need to move forward as a society and utilize every available source of energy to lessen our use of foreign oil.It would cost the equivalent of 60 cents a gallon to charge and drive an electric car. The electricity to charge the car could come from solar or wind generated electricity. If all gasoline cars, trucks, and suv's instead had plug-in electric drive trains, the amount of electricity needed to replace gasoline is about equal to the estimated wind energy potential of the state of North Dakota. Why don't we use some of the billions in bail out money to bail us out of our dependence on foreign oil? This past year the high cost of fuel so seriously damaged our economy and society that the ripple effects will be felt for years to come. Why not invest in setting up some alternative energy projects on a national basis, create clean cheap electricity, create millions of badly needed new green collar jobs, and get out from under our dependence on foreign oil. What a win -win situation that would be. There is a great new book out called The Manhattan Project of 2009 Energy Independence NOW by Jeff Wilson. I highly recommend this book for anyone interested in alternative energy. www.themanhattanprojectof2009.com

  115. So you don't need unskilled labour? by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    I have got news for you: your agricultural produce will go to hell, your children and elderely will not be tended, you will not be served.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
    1. Re:So you don't need unskilled labour? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      We have unskilled idiots aplenty, thank you. We needn't import them, we can produce them at reasonable amounts right here.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  116. Re:Sick and tired of people ragging on mark-to-mar by Tiro · · Score: 1

    I totally agree with you on the naked shorts fraud, the crappy banks, and the very poor regulation.