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Federal Trade Commission To Scrutinize DRM

Ars Technica reports that the FTC is getting ready to take a hard look at gaming DRM, setting up a town hall meeting to be held on March 25th. They're currently recruiting panelists, and they say the meeting will, in part, "address the need to improve disclosures to consumers about DRM limitations." The controversy over DRM came to a head in 2008 with the release of Spore and the multiple subsequent class-action lawsuits focusing on the SecuROM software that came with the game. Ars Technica says the town hall meeting will also look at "legal issues surrounding DRM" and "the potential need for government involvement to protect consumers."

211 comments

  1. Woot! by Notabadguy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    These kind of stories swing both ways, and we've had literally dozens of "Finally the pendulum swings the other way moments" that have amounted to nothing more than blips across the radar... But I can't help but optimistically wonder if this is the start of a trend fighting back against corporate abuse of us, the customer? For several years now, I (and probably you) have been inured to new stories about corporation X doing new thing Y to screw customer z, and the news story hasn't even batted an eyelash because we're not surprised. Now the RIAA is backpedaling, and DRM is getting an appropriate scrutinizing. =) Its a good start to 2009!

    1. Re:Woot! by Jurily · · Score: 2, Funny

      2009: The Year Of Consumer Protection!

    2. Re:Woot! by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 4, Funny

      More like 2009: The Year of DRM on the Desktop, Laptop, Palmtop, Media Player, DVR, Television, The Automobile, Appliances, Your Brain, etc.

      This won't amount to anything. The MAFIAA wouldn't have it any other way.

    3. Re:Woot! by Farmer+Pete · · Score: 5, Insightful

      All that will come out of this is that the game manufacturers will be forced to put a tiny label on the box saying that it has DRM on it. You'll need a magnifying glass to read it, and you wont know what it means unless you are up on the subject.

    4. Re:Woot! by AndrewNeo · · Score: 3, Informative

      What does the MAFIAA have to do with gaming DRM?

    5. Re:Woot! by JeffSpudrinski · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't hold out a *whole* lot of hope that this will lead to anything useful.

      However, Spore went WAY to far with DRM (like Sony did with music CDs a couple of years ago) and it does like instances where company cross obvious lines to draw attention to issues like this.

      If nothing else, we can at least hope to familiarize those in authority as to how intrusive companies can be with DRM when they are not reigned in.

      -JJS

    6. Re:Woot! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot about DRM on the Linux

    7. Re:Woot! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Town hall meeting is a code word for "convince the public"

    8. Re:Woot! by ultranova · · Score: 1

      These kind of stories swing both ways, and we've had literally dozens of "Finally the pendulum swings the other way moments" that have amounted to nothing more than blips across the radar... But I can't help but optimistically wonder if this is the start of a trend fighting back against corporate abuse of us, the customer?

      No, it's just another blip on the radar.

      Now the RIAA is backpedaling, and DRM is getting an appropriate scrutinizing.

      Copyright cartels have won victory after victory to the detriment of everyone else, in the USA and everywhere else. That a single copyright cartel is taking a pause in their extortion campaign in no way changes that. And DRM is being scrutinized, not condemned - even at the very best this will simply result in a "Contains DRM" sticker on the gamebox.

      Its a good start to 2009!

      No, it's not. It simply isn't the absolute worst it could be.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    9. Re:Woot! by AlHunt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Until consumers effectively rebel against this kind of crap, it ain't going away. And the odds of that are pretty slim. Remember, this is the same population buying "converter boxes" for $40 or more just to continue watching "free tv". Myself, unless the advertisers send me a box for free, I won't be able to view their commercials after February 17th. My, what a loss.

      --
      1 in 4 Maine children in struggle with hunger.
    10. Re:Woot! by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's probably because the "DRM on the Linux" isn't relevant to this discussion.

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    11. Re:Woot! by causality · · Score: 1

      These kind of stories swing both ways, and we've had literally dozens of "Finally the pendulum swings the other way moments" that have amounted to nothing more than blips across the radar... But I can't help but optimistically wonder if this is the start of a trend fighting back against corporate abuse of us, the customer? For several years now, I (and probably you) have been inured to new stories about corporation X doing new thing Y to screw customer z, and the news story hasn't even batted an eyelash because we're not surprised. Now the RIAA is backpedaling, and DRM is getting an appropriate scrutinizing. =) Its a good start to 2009!

      The more the abuses go on, the bigger the backlash is going to be when it finally does happen. You could call it conservation of energy. The RIAA may actually be smart enough to understand that, albeit slow to admit and act on the truth of it, though I have my doubts that it will be this way with DRM. Where the RIAA had to go through channels (i.e. the legal system), I think DRM appeals too directly to the fantasy of market control for the content providers to give it up so easily.

      Right now the average customer does not fully understand the restrictive technologies behind DRM. This is rather well-known and often discussed. What is not discussed as often is the philosophy of control and the assumption of bad faith that is behind it. If the content providers continue to embrace DRM and add more and more restrictions, and if this results in the general public receiving a rude awakening, it could be one of the best things to happen. If there is a backlash, what I hope is that it will be against excessive control and far-reaching restrictions in general and not against the particular tools (DRM, etc.) that are currently being used to bring this about. You know that saying about how the government should fear the people and the people should not fear their government? I believe that corporations should fear their customers for all of the same reasons. I'd rather see a large number of people get pissed off and decide that they're never going to put up with this shit anymore no matter how badly they wanted that movie or that video game, than see the FTC tell the media companies to play nice with their DRM. Any day.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    12. Re:Woot! by causality · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What does the MAFIAA have to do with gaming DRM?

      Directly? Not very much. Indirectly? They're trying to pave the way for more DRM in general.

      I think the problem is that we draw too many distinctions between this form of DRM and that form of DRM. The basic idea is that you either accept and agree with the philosophy of control underlying DRM or you see it as a threat to the freedom and assumption of good faith that most customers in most industries currently enjoy. If it's okay for media conglomerates to exert this kind of after-the-sale control of the market for music, it's also okay for software companies to exert this kind of after-the-sale control of the market for video games. It would be hypocritical to embrace one and resist the other.

      The way I see it, this is not about DRM or SecuROM or gaming or the RIAA or the MPAA. This is about the acceptance or the rejection of an idea. Any successful DRM scheme in any industry is an argument for the acceptability of DRM in general. Taken to its conclusion, the acceptability of DRM and the legitimization of this kind of micromanaged control would eventually have DRM-like systems showing up in many industries, even those that do not depend on copyright law. What has the MAFIAA to do with gaming? You can bet that the gaming companies are looking at the lessons learned from systems like iTunes, such as why it was successful, and considering these things for their own DRM.

      The part that bothers me is that you see this same pattern with most other systems of control. Remember the earlier PCs and the "Don't Copy That Floppy" campaigns and the severe antipiracy measures? They were not successful enough to become a widespread, enduring practice but the desire for control didn't just go away. The government is not the only large entity that is able to manipulate people and convince them that less freedom is somehow a good thing. So maybe people back then weren't prepared to accept it and here it comes rearing its ugly head once again. The pattern that bothers me is that this will keep coming up again and again, decade after decade, until it finally takes root, because the people pushing it know that once it is viewed as "just the way things are done" then it will be here to stay. Then the only "debate" will be about which forms of it are to be used and whether the FTC or anyone else will regulate it. If it ever becomes so legitimized, that would represent a significant victory for those who place short-term profits ahead of long-term freedoms.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    13. Re:Woot! by penix1 · · Score: 1

      Spore simply put a spotlight on the DRM problem. I suspect this move was instigated not really by consumers but by resellers of these games. Whole businesses have sprung up around used games that are threatened by DRM's violation of the First Sale Doctrine. There is more to this than consumer outrage. After all, since when did government care about public outrage...

      --
      This is a sig. This is only a sig. Had this been an actual sig you would have been informed where to tune for more sigs.
    14. Re:Woot! by DeskLazer · · Score: 0, Troll

      also, 2009: the year of the linux desktop!

    15. Re:Woot! by Martin+Blank · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Any successful DRM scheme in any industry is an argument for the acceptability of DRM in general.

      This is not necessarily true. While DRM for you may be completely unacceptable, there are those of us who do not necessarily mind relatively unintrusive DRM. Steam has been repeatedly mentioned in recent Slashdot conversations about this, with numerous users (myself included) happy with what it provides. A recent story did raise the point that SecuROM was in the Steam distribution for one or more games, but this raised the ire of Slashdot users, and EA, at least, has since taken pains to explain that its more recent releases have been stripped of SecuROM when distributed via Steam.

      It really does come down to the benefits and drawbacks of a particular scheme. Steam can be easily removed with little or no trace left behind, allows for virtually unlimited installations on either the same or multiple devices, and simplifies gaming life by providing supplemental features such as a friends list and the ability to save settings across the network. Apple's system, while allowing downloading to a limited number of devices, allows for burning CDs, from which unencumbered files can be derived. SecuROM digs deeply into the system, is difficult or impossible to remove, limits lifetime installations requiring special tools to decrement the installation count, and generally causes more trouble than many gamers find it to be worth.

      Again, you may find all forms of DRM to be abhorrent, but the more moderate forms are acceptable to many.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    16. Re:Woot! by DarthJohn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Or worse. They'll make it big and shiny and have a little blurb telling you how it is going to protect your digital rights.

    17. Re:Woot! by causality · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Again, you may find all forms of DRM to be abhorrent, but the more moderate forms are acceptable to many.

      That's because, as I explained, I find it to be abhorrent in principle. It's the practical implementation that the many find so acceptable. I won't mince words here; compromising principles not even for short-term gain, but worse, for no gain at all, on the grounds of "well it isn't really so bad (yet)", are the actions of weak-minded people who deserve what this inevitably leads to. Do it once and you prove that you and your beliefs and interests are compromisable. Prove that these are compromisable and you invite more of the same. Whether you are talking about nations or corporations, It is always a tiny, gradual, bit-by-bit encroachment and any particular "bit" never seems so bad at the time. Waiting until this happens and becomes entrenched is probably the worst time to resist it. With all of the examples provided by history, I can't believe anyone still doubts the inevitability of this process. Yet every time this comes up you always have the apologists who excuse the encroachment; their failure is that they are only looking at the immediate short-term and are not taking the idea to its full expression or at least asking "what precedent does this establish?".

      DRM was not the result of overwhelming customer demand. DRM amounts to the corporations telling their customers how the market will be. This is backwards. It is the customers who should be telling the corporations how the market will be, with bankruptcy as the corporations' only option. I'll make my priorities clear to you: I would rather see every last member of the RIAA and MPAA and every last video game company go completely out of business than see the widespread acceptance of unnecessary limitations on freedom. Freedom is easily that precious.

      To concern yourself with whether this form of DRM is a little bad while that one over there is quite agreeable is to miss the point. That's exactly the kind of shortsighted tunnel-vision that is hoped for by the people who want more control over you. Take my definition from my first paragraph. It is compromising sound principles, not even for short-term gain but for no gain at all, on the grounds of "well at present it's not that bad". Does this sound like the behavior of sane, rational people who are looking after their own interests?

      It's like that saying, when you call things what they are everything becomes so much simpler. This is drastically more clear-cut than issues that cause half the amount of controversy.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    18. Re:Woot! by hairyfeet · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And allow me to add another reality that many seem to forget. That ANY DRM eventually leads to screwed customers. That is just a fact. Hell that is pretty much the point, since the pirates get around that crap so fast they release before launch date nowadays. So who does that leave if it isn't slowing the pirates? That's right, the poor bastard that actually bought it. I just wish I had saved the emails I shot back and forth with Valve over Steam, because I can tell you that I got screwed. I was one of the idiots that bought HL: GOTY edition and ended up being told to go out and buy it again because some hacker group had come out with a keygen. Look it up, I am FAR from alone with that one. I gave the game away and said never again. I will stick with games that I can get a crack for after purchase and will NEVER deal with that online activation crap again. Fool me once...

      But allow me to turn it over to someone who expresses how I fell about DRM now better than I do. While he is not talking about Steam, I think those of us that have been burnt enough(and frankly here who hasn't?) will relate to his story. And be sure to look behind him at the huge amount of money he has given the gaming companies only to be kicked in the nuts. And folks wonder why piracy just seems to be growing. Well how about not kicking the consumer in the nuts when you KNOW that DRM shit does absolutely NOTHING to slow down the pirates? How about that?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    19. Re:Woot! by nsheppar · · Score: 3, Funny

      It could be made like the surgeon general's warning on tobacco products: Warning, buying this product and expecting it to work properly without intrusive copyright protection may be hazardous to your sanity.

      --
      Correctness matters. Mercy matters more.
    20. Re:Woot! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only the pendulum is made of iron, and it's exposed to a strong magnet pulling it faster and faster away from the consumers!

    21. Re:Woot! by Hurricane78 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Except that they just pulled DRM from the iTunes store. Completely.

      So... how do I put this...?
      I think Dr. Cox says it best.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    22. Re:Woot! by Ascagnel · · Score: 4, Informative

      Sony, a RIAA/MPAA member, is the author of SecuROM. For more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Securom

      --
      "It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine."
    23. Re:Woot! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read this about DRM: it's anti-competitive and creates crippled technology, it doesn't stop piracy and it only harms legitimate users.

    24. Re:Woot! by Martin+Blank · · Score: 1

      I work with compromise and worry about precedent every day. My career is in network security, and there's often compromise on new projects. The precedent that is set is worrisome, because it comes down to, "They did this over there, why can't we do it?" We then have to explain why the exception was granted, and why it can't be granted in this situation.

      SecuROM is DRM. Steam is DRM with a trade-off of useful features. I know some people have been burned, and if I were Valve, I'd be working harder to establish a method by which those issues could be resolved. But the response where someone was burned once and therefore the entire technology is null and void is another issue I deal with on a regular basis. We have to convince the project managers why it is that we need firewalls, IPS, certificates, or encryption in particular places. They don't understand that while they had problems with it in their last job, we've got a good system here, and we're willing to work with them to improve it. Sometimes, we break something, and they decide that it's not worth it and they're not going to use it, and we have to explain what we broke, why the technology is still valid, and how it provides a benefit.

      You and I are not as far apart as you may think. I bought Railroad Tycoon III a year ago (picked it up for $5 or so), and the DRM on it refused to let me install it at all. Even after the (weak) tech support suggestions, I couldn't get it to work, and I finally just tossed it aside in frustration, and since then I've not bought any CD-based games that have DRM. I don't have an iTunes account, and I'm suspicious of any application that wants to connect to the network for reasons that are not clearly defined. When I started using Digsby for IM a little while back, I broke out Wireshark and was monitoring the traffic, trying to figure out how it was securely saving the passwords server-side, until I managed to find an explanation which placated me.

      I don't see this as compromising for short-term gain. I'm still playing games that I played years ago, and which I expect to continue playing for some time to come. I do, however, draw clear lines as to what I will allow when it comes to DRM. They just encompass a little more space than do yours.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    25. Re:Woot! by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      The DRM encumbered tracks in the iTunes store and in my library (which Apple will happily charge me $0.60 a track to upgrade, when they feel like it, for a total of $2.39 per track - fuck that) beg to differ.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    26. Re:Woot! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      I just wish I had saved the emails I shot back and forth with Valve over Steam, because I can tell you that I got screwed.

      Ditto here.

      I will never give Valve/Steam another penny of my money. And no, I don't pirate their software either- I refuse to support it outright.
      Am I missing out? Probably, but I'm not going to cave in. I already paid $50 for software I'll never be able to use, so until I get a refund (which won't happen) I'm through with them.
      Hell, when it happened I would have settled for an apology from them, and even paid a marginal fee to just get a new license number, but they basically accused me of giving out the serial number to thousands of people.
      I offered to provide them all the original packaging plus a store and credit card receipt but they wouldn't even listen. I was even hung up on by their phone support, and my emails were constantly ignored.

      I realize that just one consumer isn't going to make an impact, but I'm through being taken to the cleaners. For me it isn't even necessarily a matter of principles, but of simply being pissed on & subsequently pissed off.

    27. Re:Woot! by hairyfeet · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Was it HL:GOTY edition? Because it sounds like the same thing that happened to me. I even offered to take a picture of the game with today's newspaper as well as faxing them the receipt. Like you they treated me like a criminal for actually giving them my money. Well I learned my lesson. It will be a cold day in hell before I give Valve another red cent.

      And for all of you that talk about how wonderful Steam is, what do you think is going to happen when somebody figures out how to hack it? Do you think they won't treat you as a criminal like I was treated? Or what happens when you pick up the box version of a Valve game and some cracker group has released a keygen for it? I will tell you what will happen. Just like what I and this AC had happen. Your money will have been a free gift to Valve with nothing to show for it but rude emails telling you to give them MORE money you dirtbag you.

      This is why we must always fight DRM in all its forms. Because as we all know it is NOT about piracy. DRM has done nothing in the past 20 years to even put a dent in piracy, and if it was to stop casual piracy, well that was easy enough with the old "bad sector" CD trick. No, this is about control. This is about turning everything you purchase digitally into nothing more than a rental that can be turned off at a whim. As long as you are supporting DRM like Steam, you are saying to the game companies that you are willing to pay full price for something that you have NO control or say over. They can kill the servers, they can use kill bits, or like I and this AC had happen they can simply say "I don't believe you paid for it despite your receipt. Pay for it again." And that is simply unacceptable.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    28. Re:Woot! by mjwx · · Score: 1

      All that will come out of this is that the game manufacturers will be forced to put a tiny label on the box saying that it has DRM on it. You'll need a magnifying glass to read it, and you wont know what it means unless you are up on the subject

      Treat it like Cigarette warnings.

      In Australia all Cigarette packets have to have a health warning on three sides which have to make up a certain percentage of the packet (1/3 I think) and the Health Dept vets or in some cases actually writes the warning (most companies just copy and paste the ad's straight from the health dept). This should be done with DRM warnings. If there was a a giant "WARNING - this software contains DRM which may be harmful to your computer" warning on the box then people will be come aware of DRM's existence. This does not even require the co-operation of the companies in question, it could be an external sticker put on by the retailer as a condition of sale (Steam, Stardock and other online distribution methods fall under the same retail regulations as EB games).

      What we really need however is a ratings system for DRM. 4 or 5 different classes of DRM, for example:
      Class 0, This product contains no DRM or copy protection measures.
      Class 1, This product requires a CD key.
      Class 2, This product contains DRM or a copy protection on the disk and/or requires a dongle.
      Class 3, This product contains DRM or a copy protection system that installs onto your computer and may be harmful.
      Class 4, This product contains DRM and requires activation during or after installation. This product may limit the number of consecutive activations.
      Class 5, This product contains DRM and requires periodic activation and may be deactivated without prior consent.
      The warnings themselves need to be written out better then I have (better explanation, not technical) but you should get the idea. These labels should take up no less then 1/5 of the front cover and the DRM class must be displayed with the systems requirements. Enforcing this would be no different then enforcing PEGI ratings (or your local ratings system) and as I said, can be placed on the box by the retailer if need be bypassing the consent of the publisher completely, although it would be better if it were printed on the box.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    29. Re:Woot! by Eskarel · · Score: 1

      Most people do not have a principle against DRM. They do not have an objection, in principle, to companies protecting themselves from illegal infringement.

      DRM is stupid, and rather pointless, but most people do not, in principle, disagree with either its goals.

      What they object to is restrictions which impact them and what they feel they should be able to do. Most of the time they just ignore or work around the restrictions they don't like, but sometimes they get pissede off

      As this case makes most evident, not everything is a slippery slope. SecuROM crossed the boundaries of what people found acceptable and they're going to get smacked. There are behavioural rules.

    30. Re:Woot! by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Of course DRM-freeness is only true for new tracks. It sure sucks that they did not give you a way to convert the files on your computer . But the store itself is not your computer. My argument still is true.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    31. Re:Woot! by poopdeville · · Score: 1

      They will soon. Apple doesn't want to pay people to babysit legacy servers. And they don't want bad PR about something people actually care about: their iPods.

      --
      After all, I am strangely colored.
    32. Re:Woot! by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Dongles need to be in a class by themselves. Software rarely provides copy protection on the install media, but when it does, it is usually forgeable with some effort, thus allowing you to have a backup in case the disc goes bad. Dongles, by contrast, are often irreplaceable, nearly non-duplicatable devices without which you have no license.

      I think we also need laws that provide governance over dongles, requiring that if a dongle is lost or stolen, the manufacturer must agree to replace the license key for no more than some reasonable percentage (say 5%) of the cost of the software unless they can show in a court of law that they had reasonable cause to believe that the theft did not occur. Some companies will do it for free, others charge the full replacement price of the software, which IMHO is unreasonable. Because of that last group, I will not purchase software that uses dongles. It is simply too great a risk.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    33. Re:Woot! by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      But the store itself is not your computer. My argument still is true.

      No it isn't. 90% of all tracks on the iTunes store are STILL wrapped in UnFairplay.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    34. Re:Woot! by mjwx · · Score: 1
      As I said, someone with a better knowledge of DRM and the law needs to do the actual writing, this is just a quick list I was rattling off the top of my head.

      I think we also need laws that provide governance over dongles, requiring that if a dongle is lost or stolen, the manufacturer must agree to replace the license key for no more than some reasonable percentage (say 5%)

      Agree 100%. There should be better laws governing this, if I lose my car key I can have a locksmith make a new one (bad example I know, but the principal is there). The price should be what it costs to replace the dongle though, no profit for the company. 5% of a A$40,000 software package is A$2000 which is way overpriced for a dongle. The dongles cost something along the lines of A$100 a piece, many software makers who use dongles list them as a separate line item on the invoice.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    35. Re:Woot! by Robocoastie · · Score: 1

      yea but gov't regulation? This country has gotten so socialized its pathetic.

  2. Video Games a Bad Candidate,this doesn't bode well by plasmacutter · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Video games are by far the worst candidate for this discussion imho.

    There is very little case law protecting consumer fair use with video games, as compared with audio and video.

    This is a heavy bet on weak prospects.

    Assuming the FTC does determine a need is required for video games, this will provide definitive and hefty leverage to expand it to music and video media.

    If it does not, and it's a high likelihood the FTC determines it does not, it will be MUCH harder to press the issue on, for instance, the fact that blu-ray media will black peoples' screens at random due to undocumented HDCP issues.

    --
    VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
  3. Are Pigs Flying? by blcamp · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Truly a case of Uncle Sam's left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing, considering the recent creation of a Copyright Czar.

    At least Apple is moving in the right direction, announcing yesterday that it will drop DRM from it's tracks.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/4811674a28.html (and elsewhere)

    --
    The problem with socialism is that they always run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher
    1. Re:Are Pigs Flying? by teg · · Score: 4, Informative

      Apple moved in the right direction a long time ago - the big news yesterday was that the remaining big record companies allowed Apple to sell their music without DRM. Apple has done so with EMI and smaller labels for a while now.

    2. Re:Are Pigs Flying? by the_arrow · · Score: 1

      Also, it seems that Apple is giving in to the labels wishes to use differentiated pricing.

      --
      / The Arrow
      "How lovely you are. So lovely in my straightjacket..." - Nny
    3. Re:Are Pigs Flying? by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      The sad part is, if the market responds and buys less of the songs at the $1.29 price point than the $0.99 price point, then the industry will likely blame the removal of the DRM for the drop in sales rather than the increase in price.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    4. Re:Are Pigs Flying? by SenseiLeNoir · · Score: 1

      Not really, because price is not necessarily going to stop a person from getting a song. People are willing to pay more for certain songs as the market demands, and selling some songs at less, will generate more sales of those.

      Removing DRM is a big thing. Overall I dont think it woudl make any difference in sales, and may even increase sales overall, as that is what the trends are.

      --
      Have a nice day!
    5. Re:Are Pigs Flying? by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      Price will not stop everyone, but saying that raising the cost of an item (by 30% no less) will not stop some people from buying it is a bit naive.

      Put it this way: I personally might still pay $1.29 for some songs. $0.99 would be better. However, $1.99 would be too much. So somewhere between $0.99 and $1.99 is my threshold (and just personally I'd say that threshold is probably $1.49 for ME). However, for some others, their threshold will fall between $0.99 and $1.29 - it could likely be the old old cost of exactly $0.99. Those people will buy less music.

      Now in this case there has been a quality improvement (removal of DRM), but it remains to be seen whether the customers gained from that move will offset the customers lost by the move to a higher cost for some songs.

      For the $0.69 songs it's pretty much win/win, but my guess is that those probably aren't affiliated with the RIAA anyways.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    6. Re:Are Pigs Flying? by joranbelar · · Score: 1

      I don't think the industry needs pesky things like "facts" for them to blame piracy for bringing down their profits.

      You ascribe to them much undeserved truthiness.

    7. Re:Are Pigs Flying? by Binestar · · Score: 1

      It will also affect the people who have a strict budget that they follow for various things. Someone has $20 to spend on music. Used to be able to buy 20 songs. now they can buy 15.

      The number of songs sold goes down, income stays the same.

      --
      Do you Gentoo!?
    8. Re:Are Pigs Flying? by mjwx · · Score: 1

      At least Apple is moving in the right direction, announcing yesterday that it will drop DRM from it's tracks.

      This is hand waving, what Apple really did is consent to the media industries desire for tiered pricing. From what I've read tracks will be US$0.69, US$0.99 and US$1.29 (which miraculously translate into A$1.39, A$1.99 and A$2.59 respectively regardless of the actual exchange rate). I'd put a lot of money on the fact that any popular track is going to be sold at US$1.29 whilst the unpopular tracks that don't sell will be US0.69. Admittedly the 0.69 catalogue will be larger, but who will buy that one hit wonder from 6 years ago?

      [waives hand] BUT ITS ALL DRM FREE [/waives hand] (any other bets that DRM free tracks remain at US$1.29)

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    9. Re:Are Pigs Flying? by Eskarel · · Score: 1

      The SecuROM issue is not about copyright.

      The administration can be pro-copyright, and even pro-DRM while still being anti-SecuROM. SecuROM is DRM taken way too far.

  4. Governments are smart by aethelwyrd · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm sure the government knows exactly what its doing. They will have a bunch of town hall meetings, do a lot of research and studies, collect a lot of money from large corporations and then come up with a centralized DRM server that everyone will be required by law to use.

    1. Re:Governments are smart by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I would actually like that solution very much.

      It still has quite a lot of bad sides of DRM but at least we would have some non-corporate organization keeping the server up and eliminating the risk that corporation loses interest and DRM products won't work.

      For any who think that government is no more trustworthy in this than corporations... Not only do I disagree but it doesn't matter. If there is gov run DRM server that goes down, corporations can (if they have the interest) set up their own servers again. If corporation's DRM server goes down, government isn't there to pick the pieces.

      So I for one have little (read: not "none". I still doubt those products would work well on the platfrom I'm writing this from.) problems with the idea of government ran DRM server.

    2. Re:Governments are smart by KeithJM · · Score: 1

      a centralized DRM server that everyone will be required by law to use.

      I don't think that would be constitutional in the US. It violates the first amendment to require everyone in the country (or anyone in the country) to give the government control of access to your videos, music, audible books and/or games.

      You could make it optional (the federal government runs a DRM server and you can make use of it), but not required.

    3. Re:Governments are smart by troll8901 · · Score: 1

      I'm sure the mandated DRM server will achieve 99.999% uptime.

    4. Re:Governments are smart by jsalbre · · Score: 1

      You and I must be reading different constitutions. I see nothing in the First Amendment about videos, music, games, DRM or anything of the sort.

      The First Amendment reads:

      Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    5. Re:Governments are smart by KeithJM · · Score: 1

      I see nothing in the First Amendment about videos, music, games, DRM or anything of the sort.

      Expression through music or video falls under free speech. In fact, even things like t-shirts and flag-burning demonstrations have been ruled to be free speech. Requiring you to surrender control of your speech to a government-run DRM server would be abridging your free speech.

      I'm not sure if the original poster was serious or not, but I wouldn't be shocked if the idea is seriously considered at some point.

    6. Re:Governments are smart by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really, it's a problem already solved with the concept of liability. the FCC should only drop the non liability on software vendors, and then leave to the class actions to regulate companies.

    7. Re:Governments are smart by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not me.

      I'd like to see a new Digital Millineum Copyright Act that actually made sense. My DMCA would state that any work protected by technological means automatically loses its copyright on the grounds that it needs no legal protection.

      You have copyright? You don't need DRM. You have DRM? You don't need copyright.

      I'd also like to see copyrights expire after 20 years. Jimi Hendrix' music, JRR Tolkein's books, DOS 2.0, Disney's Fantasia, all should be in the public domain. That is, after all, why the US Constutution grants Congress the privelege of making copyright in the first place.

    8. Re:Governments are smart by ultranova · · Score: 1

      So I for one have little (read: not "none". I still doubt those products would work well on the platfrom I'm writing this from.) problems with the idea of government ran DRM server.

      But I do, and it's a big one: it will let the government know exactly what content I'm using and when. Every time you read an infected book, it's logged into government database; every time you watch infected movie, it's logged into a government database; every time you listen to an infected song, it's logged into a government database.

      I don't want to be accused of a crime in the neighbourhood because their database shows that plenty of criminals have similar reading habits than me.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    9. Re:Governments are smart by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 1

      That's a nice idea, but the only reason DRM exists is because law enforcement isn't perfect, in fact outside of mass piracy cases they don't even try. So that position wouldn't make a whole lot of sense, because people would say, so what? I can't rely on copyright anyway, so taking it away from me won't change much. All it'd do is make DRM even more draconian than today as companies lose the ability to prosecute the really big professional pirates.

    10. Re:Governments are smart by mcgrew · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's a nice idea, but the only reason DRM exists is because law enforcement isn't perfect

      DRM does not and cannot work. It only tends to inconvience the paying customer while doing nothing whatever to slow copyright infringement. DRM is a padlock with the key hanging from a chain attached to the padlock. As limited as law enforcent may be, DRM does not help a single whit.

      Sony's ill-fated XCP had the price of having every single customer whose equipment was ruined by it swear to never ever buy another Sony product again. I'm a good example - I paid $1000 for a Sony Trinitron; I'd bought a Sony boom box, walkman, diskman, and God knows what other Sony products.

      Then my daughter, who worked in a record store, brought a CD home, and the only CD player was the PC's CDROM. As I'd shut off autoplay and she trusted the record label, she actually ran one of the programs on the disk. Fixing it cost me hardware replacemet, software replacement, and God knows how many hours of my time.

      As a rusult, I will never EVER buy another Sony product of any kind again. They have shown themselves to be a company run by sociopaths who install a rootkit on their paying customers' computers. I would be an idiot to buy anything from them.

      The sad part is, the dumbasses probably didn't realize how evil that particular brand of DRM (which ironically and hypocritically included FOSS software, itself being a copyright infringement) was malware.

      If your company uses DRM, you are putting your company in danger of making enemies of your faithful customers.

      Before the digital age, there was no DRM but there was copyright infringement. Law enforcement handled it well enough that no company ever went broke as a result of not having it.

      DRM is brain dead stupid. If you buy a product using DRM, you are giving your money to morons.

  5. "Legal Issues Surrounding DRM?" by Nautical+Insanity · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It was my impression that any legal ambiguity surrounding viruses had been cleared long ago.

  6. Linking to a previous news item by fgaliegue · · Score: 4, Insightful

    http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/20/178259

    Go read it. Seriously. The author has many good point, and this panel only highlights the points he makes.

    The /. comments on this article are spot on, in the sense that most of them are knee-jerk reactions predicted all along the article. Sad.

    1. Re:Linking to a previous news item by plasmacutter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think the guy's "good points" were rendered null and void when he slammed everyone who engages in civil disobedience against unjust, anti-consumer, and economically crushing copyright over-reach.

      Apparently he wasn't paying attention when the elephant walked into the room and crushed the fledgling digital age, crib and all.

      --
      VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
    2. Re:Linking to a previous news item by fgaliegue · · Score: 1

      Your reaction just proves my point. Read the article. I mean it.

    3. Re:Linking to a previous news item by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It ook quite some time to go through that long essay but all in all it was time well spent. Finally I have some hard data on piracy. I have to say I more or less expected such figures but did not know how much zero-day piracy affects game releases. A good read, effectively debunking lots of myths loved by the "pirate culture".
      Disclaimer: I am one of those who do it "because they can"

    4. Re:Linking to a previous news item by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I noticed the publishers talked a lot about just trying to hold off pirated copies so they could get first day sales. Like a bad movie, word of mouth gets out about bad games and no one wants it. With all the major game publishers buying off game reviews so even bad games get a good review, it's hard to know if you should really buy the game. Sales fall over time due to piracy AND sucky games that got a false good review. It's not an excuse, but piracy does give a "try before you buy" option in an environment where you can't really trust game reviews.

    5. Re:Linking to a previous news item by conlaw · · Score: 1
      Describing piracy as

      civil disobedience against unjust, anti-consumer, and economically crushing copyright over-reach,

      is rather disingenuous. I agree that the extreme extensions of the length of copyright protections have become "the elephant in the room." However, piracy of new games, music and/or movies is not truly a civil protest against those extensions but is actually a complete rejection of any form of copyright.

      Consider, for example, a fairly recent example of true civil disobedience to an unjust law - the Mongomery Bus Boycott (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montgomery_Bus_Boycott). Those who wished to bring attention to the unjustness of the bus segregation rules did not ride the busses while paying nothing or only what they felt was a "fair" price; they simply refused to ride the busses.

      Likewise, an appropriate protest against "copyright over-reach" would be a refusal to use the overreaching media in any form; in other words, don't buy it, don't pirate it, and don't even use the free demo. If everyone who feels "economically crushed" by the current copyright laws had the patience to boycott the products, they might be able to change the current rules rather than encouraging the producers to try more restrictive means of enforcement.

    6. Re:Linking to a previous news item by plasmacutter · · Score: 1

      except im not talking about length. The length of copyright protections isn't the elephant in the room.

      The elephant in the room goes by the name of "DMCA section 1201: prohibitions against circumvention of technical protection measures"

      There's a reason there's no box that plays everything, and everyone loves to ignore that big fat pink elephant.

      --
      VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
    7. Re:Linking to a previous news item by plasmacutter · · Score: 1

      Your reaction just proves my point. Read the article. I mean it.

      I'm sorry, but the fact an article which short-sightedly bashes people for their rightful conclusions about unjust copyright law accurately predicts people being indignant about its veiled invective does not make it or its author any more correct.

      "judge, that there (n-word redacted) just wants white women! Don't believe me? He'll get pissed off and indignant if you tell him he does"

      --
      VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
    8. Re:Linking to a previous news item by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would you idiots please stop trying to excuse your theft (yes, theft) under the guise of "civil disobedience." I don't like DRM either, but I don't steal. You would pirate games even if they were dirt cheap and didn't contain any DRM. And yes, it is theft. It may not be defines as such legally, but you are still taking something that isn't your. Picking particular meanings of the word, that support your claim ("it's not theft! I'm not depriving anyone of anything!") is utter garbage. Worse is the morons who think they can take anything they want because of the "information wants to be free" crap.

    9. Re:Linking to a previous news item by bentcd · · Score: 1

      Consider, for example, a fairly recent example of true civil disobedience to an unjust law - the Mongomery Bus Boycott (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montgomery_Bus_Boycott). Those who wished to bring attention to the unjustness of the bus segregation rules did not ride the busses while paying nothing or only what they felt was a "fair" price; they simply refused to ride the busses.

      That would not be civil disobedience. Civil disobedience is to willfully, and usually with great public fanfare, break a law in an attempt to showcase the unjustness of that law. Choosing not to take a bus is a customer choice, not civil disobedience.

      Piracy as civil disobedience is mostly criticized not because piracy is illegal (if it were legal, it couldn't be civil disobedience) but because it's usually carried out covertly and that voids the whole point of engaging in civil disobedience. It's hard to showcase something you're keeping a secret after all. Civil disobedience is when you are saying "I am breaking this law, I dare you to arrest me for it and I am prepared to face the consequences for doing so". This is a very strong moral position that just cannot be reached through covert piracy.

      Overt piracy could be civil disobedience.

      --
      sigs are hazardous to your health
    10. Re:Linking to a previous news item by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's right! I stole everything from Microsoft, and that is why they are bankrupt.

    11. Re:Linking to a previous news item by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 1

      You idiot. You just proved the authors point! Ignoring copyright laws for your own convenience isn't "civil disobedience" because copyright law is entirely opt-in. If you think it's a fundamentally bad thing, go right ahead and contribute to the body of creative works not protected by it. Nobody will stop you. They will actually cheer you on.

      Grabbing copyrighted stuff without paying for it (which is what I have to assume you mean by civil disobedience) isn't some great revolution, it's screwing over your neighbour to save yourself a buck.

    12. Re:Linking to a previous news item by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      The Bostom Tea Party is a clear example that civil disobedience both can be done covertly. It also involves made the statement involving a nonessential.

    13. Re:Linking to a previous news item by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      So, your comment to Rosa Parks would have been that if she wanted to sit in the front of the bus, she should have started her own bus line? After all, riding the bus is totally opt-in. Heck, she wasn't even being denied use of the bus. Just the front seat of the bus.

    14. Re:Linking to a previous news item by conlaw · · Score: 1

      That would not be civil disobedience. Civil disobedience is to willfully, and usually with great public fanfare, break a law in an attempt to showcase the unjustness of that law. Choosing not to take a bus is a customer choice, not civil disobedience.

      You really should read the Wikipedia article or one of the contemporaneous accounts of the boycott. It began when Rosa Parks was arrested for for refusing to give up her seat in favor of a white person. The fanfare began that evening with a newsletter urging all black citizens to avoid riding the bus on the following Monday. The boycott ended up lasting over a year and was widely reported all over the country. During that time, many of the protesters were arrested for their actions; one of those jailed was Rev. Martin Luther King, who stated:

      "I was proud of my crime. It was the crime of joining my people in a nonviolent protest against injustice."

      The "fanfare" continued when a court case involving the segregation of Montgomery's busses was declared unlawful by the US Supreme Court.

    15. Re:Linking to a previous news item by bentcd · · Score: 1

      That would not be civil disobedience. Civil disobedience is to willfully, and usually with great public fanfare, break a law in an attempt to showcase the unjustness of that law. Choosing not to take a bus is a customer choice, not civil disobedience.

      You really should read the Wikipedia article or one of the contemporaneous accounts of the boycott. It began when Rosa Parks was arrested for for refusing to give up her seat in favor of a white person.

      I was commenting on whether choosing not to take the bus was civil disobedience. In the absence of a law that makes it mandatory to take the bus, it is not. Taking the bus and insisting on sitting in wrong-colour seating would be civil disobedience if such segregation is supported by law but this is not the situation that I commented on.

      --
      sigs are hazardous to your health
    16. Re:Linking to a previous news item by bentcd · · Score: 1

      The Bostom Tea Party is a clear example that civil disobedience both can be done covertly. It also involves made the statement involving a nonessential.

      I wouldn't really call it very covert. First, the action itself was very high-profile and second, the disguise used was easily seen through. A bit like robbing banks wearing president masks.
      Personally, though, I would hesitate to call it civil disobedience so long as the identities of the perpetrators are not known. It's more along the lines of good old sabotage.

      Given the topic, some general piece of advice: if you find great strength and comfort in patriotic tales of national unity and the purity of your nation's founders - don't go digging too deep into those tales :-)

      --
      sigs are hazardous to your health
  7. At the bare minimum... by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    At the very least, the FTC should make it illegal to advertise any product infected with DRM as a "sale" as opposed to a "rental" or "lease". As it's impossible to own them, that's false advertising.

    Yes, that means that everyone from Wal-Mart to the local mom-and-pop would have to change their advertising, in-store displays, and receipt printouts. That's a problem for them to work out with their suppliers, though.

    --
    Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    1. Re:At the bare minimum... by Technician · · Score: 5, Insightful

      At the very least, the FTC should make it illegal to advertise any product infected with DRM as a "sale" as opposed to a "rental" or "lease". As it's impossible to own them, that's false advertising.

      At the very least, the FTC should make it illegal to sell software that hides itself and makes it difficult or impossible to remove when you are done with it.

      Uninstalling the game should not leave your PC in a reduced functionality state.

      The FTC should also require the game to isolate the game functions from the rest of the computer functions. Playing a game and exiting should never leave your CD burner inop.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
    2. Re:At the bare minimum... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To expand on that comment, as a rental or lease, you would be able to return it when you were finished using it. Thus the sophistry of "sale", where you don't own it (per the EULA).

    3. Re:At the bare minimum... by parkrrrr · · Score: 3, Interesting

      As it happens, I was browsing the laws for my state of residence (Indiana) last night, looking for something else entirely, and I came across this:

      IC 24-4.8-2-2
                Sec. 2. A person who is not the owner or operator of the computer may not knowingly or intentionally:
                      (1) transmit computer software to the computer; and
                      (2) by means of the computer software transmitted under subdivision (1), do any of the following:
      [...]
                              (D) Use intentionally deceptive means to prevent reasonable efforts by an owner or operator to block or disable the installation or execution of computer software.
                              (E) Knowingly or intentionally misrepresent that computer software will be uninstalled or disabled by an owner or operator's action.
      [...]
                              (I) Prevent reasonable efforts by an owner or operator to block or disable the installation or execution of computer software by:
                                      (i) presenting an owner or operator with an option to decline installation of computer software knowing that the computer software will be installed even if the owner or operator attempts to decline installation; or
                                      (ii) falsely representing that computer software has been disabled.

      (The bit about "transmit computer software to the computer" is defined to include providing a DVD or other physical media.)

      I'm not sure what legal recourse it provides, but it seems like a start anyway.

    4. Re:At the bare minimum... by deraj123 · · Score: 1

      So, the FTC should not allow me to purchase software that hides itself and makes it difficult or impossible to remove? What if I want this sort of software? What right does my government have keeping me from it. (Sure, I don't want it, but that doesn't mean my government should prevent me from buying it.)

      It would seem more appropriate to me that the FTC requires the sellers of this sort of software to make it very clear that the software does these things.

    5. Re:At the bare minimum... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well ... I suppose it could form the basis for either the State Attorney General or a Class Action Suit against EA for having broken state law by selling Spore, and other games that fall under that description?

    6. Re:At the bare minimum... by dontbgay · · Score: 1

      Wasn't there something done like this sometime in the past? Something about a Surgeon General or something... cancer.. low birth weights..

      If only I could remember...

      --
      Sig not found.
    7. Re:At the bare minimum... by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      Even without DRM its still often listed as a sale.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  8. When I hear - Govt Wants To Protect the Consumer by gadlaw · · Score: 3, Interesting

    When I hear that the Government wants to look into something to protect the Consumer I know it's going to be bend over time for the Consumer as the Government gets together with Business to screw us all over. DRM and all of that crap needs to go away but it won't, it'll get the government gloss over to mollify those of us who are angry, they'll give it a better Orwellian name and call it a day.

    --
    Enjoy your Karma, after all you earned it. Feel your Karma Joe, feel it burn.
  9. Who are their consumers? by timon · · Score: 1

    I can't help but think that given previous actions to "protect consumers" or "offer consumers choices" that this will mean greater penalties for circumventing DRM, more restrictive schemes, or limitations on online boycotts or protests, like the Amazon reviews for Spore.

    --
    Zero tolerance equals zero intelligence
  10. Hmm... by XPeter · · Score: 2, Funny

    The Government is getting ready to "Take a hard look at DRM". Hey, you never know. If they look hard enough they might find that EA started a 50 billion dollar ponzi scheme! Oh man, wouldn't that be great.

    --
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits" - Albert Einstein
  11. scrutinizing the ftc by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    looks like the prospective inmates are training the 'first time' offenders. better days ahead.

  12. Town Hall Meeting by yttrstein · · Score: 0, Troll

    "setting up a town hall meeting"

    Is anyone else really sick of these things being called "town hall meetings"? If I wasn't from the US, I'd think we were all tobacco chewing cowboys who transform into angry, torch bearing mobs at night.

    1. Re:Town Hall Meeting by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      While most of the events that get called "town hall meetings" are shams at best, it should be noted that the origin of the term is in New England, not cowboy country.

    2. Re:Town Hall Meeting by Farmer+Pete · · Score: 1

      Why can't it be all of them?

    3. Re:Town Hall Meeting by whisper_jeff · · Score: 1

      "...will bus in _the most_..."

    4. Re:Town Hall Meeting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed! What with the difficulty finding a job in this economy, we need more companies hiring people to do this.

      I sense a new source of job growth here!

    5. Re:Town Hall Meeting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know when and where it will be. Get up off of that couch in your parent's basement and go yourself!

    6. Re:Town Hall Meeting by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up. You can bet the RIAA, et. al., are already all over this, searching for suitable "grassroots" speakers.

      --
      No sig today...
  13. Town Hall Meeting by whisper_jeff · · Score: 1

    So, they're setting up a town hall meeting? Shall we start a pool to see which company/*IAA-organization will bus in the most people to occupy seats so that nobody with an honest clue about the subject can show up and be involved in the discussion?

  14. Consumers are in the driver's seat now. by tjstork · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I think you could make the argument that a recession makes for extreme competition, and its quite likely that it could turn out that DRM simply has to be dropped because a) it requires more money to actually DRM enable a product, particularly in testing, and b) there might be enough of a critical mass of consumers shopping for content based on the absence of DRM.

    We won't really have a complete victory, though, until we see Microsoft drop entering those silly license key numbers for its products.

    --
    This is my sig.
    1. Re:Consumers are in the driver's seat now. by Farmer+Pete · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't mind product keys. Sure, they are a little silly, easy to bypass, and can be a pain when you loose them, but they aren't very intrusive after you've entered them. Windows XP wasn't bad. Vista is near the edge between good and bad.

    2. Re:Consumers are in the driver's seat now. by powerlord · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Windows 98 wasn't bad. XP is near the edge between good and bad.

      (editing and emphasis mine)

      Reinstall 98 and you need a key. Sure its easy to bypass, but a legitimate user never experiences a diminishment in functionality from reinstalling and using the product they purchased.

      Reinstall XP and you need a key. That key may or may not authorize. To even find out, you either need an internet connection (not too hard in this day and age), or a telephone connection and you have to sit on the phone and wait. If the system doesn't automatically reauthorize (I had this happen the third time I upgraded my system when the motherboard had blown and it meant I had to replace the Motherboard, CPU and memory), then you have to call and explain to them why you should be allowed to use the product you purchased, even though you are installing a legitimate key.

      The line that MS crossed was deciding that legitimate keys could only be used "so many times" some where in an algorithm.
      This is a diminution of services, and is about the only major erk with XP I currently have. Fortunately they carried it forward to Vista which made my upgrade path more of a migration issue to another OS.

      --
      This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
    3. Re:Consumers are in the driver's seat now. by dontbgay · · Score: 1

      Ummmm.. how is the parent modded funny? Did I miss the joke?

      It seems more to be insightful. However improbable, it's still plausible.

      --
      Sig not found.
    4. Re:Consumers are in the driver's seat now. by Farmer+Pete · · Score: 2, Informative

      I've never had a problem with activating windows xp. I have a copy that I have activated at least half a dozen times. I've moved the license from computer to computer to laptop to computer to computer etc. I've never had it installed more than once, but I've installed the crap out of it. Every time they just ask me how many copies I have installed, and then they give me the unlock code. I guess maybe I have just gotten lucky.

    5. Re:Consumers are in the driver's seat now. by Schnapple · · Score: 1

      The line that MS crossed was deciding that legitimate keys could only be used "so many times" some where in an algorithm.

      I've done an install of XP with a single retail key in various forms (new machines, VM's, etc.) dozens of times over the last seven years. Never had a problem. If you wait six months between activations then you don't even have to call anyone.

      This legitimate key of yours - was it an OEM key? Those get tied to your motherboard. New motherboard = new machine = new copy of XP. That's why the OEM copies are so cheap, and why people should really avoid them. Meanwhile I've had at least four motherboards over the life of my retail copy of XP, to say nothing of the times I've activated it in a VM.

    6. Re:Consumers are in the driver's seat now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm going to assume that you, like 99% of home users are using OEM software. OEM software is software that is licensed for use only with 1 computer.

      Installing windows on any new computer or upgraded motherboard requires a new copy of windows for the machine.

      That's the agreement with windows OEM. The use of an activation system to prevent people from breaking the agreement (ala: piracy) is a reasonable requirement.

      During the activation period, you get 30 days from installation to activate windows, during that time you have full and unrestricted use of windows. So its quite generous with the activation time-frame.

      The issues most of us have with other DRM systems is that companies use it as an underhanded way to prevent competition, install hidden system processes (or rootkits), or as just another way to fleece you for additional money.

      Microsoft don't do any of that with their activation, Its simply a way to ensure your using what you paid for.

      Anyone who thinks that's unacceptable must hate going to the movies. What with having to pay for the ticket and then later having to present proof of purchase to gain entry (repeatedly showing proof if you leave and re-enter the cinema), oh the indignity!

    7. Re:Consumers are in the driver's seat now. by DarthJohn · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem is that you have to ask at all.

    8. Re:Consumers are in the driver's seat now. by Belial6 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You are a perfect example of the industry wearing down the consumer. XP is NEAR the point of bad?!?!?!? XP is over the top bad! The fact that anyone would have to call the manufacturer to get permission to install something they bought is absolution wrong. The fact that when MS eventually decides to stop supporting the authentication servers, the product you bought will stop working is simply criminal. I expect that before shutting down their servers, they will just start racheting up the number of "false positives". We will continue to hear about how lots of people don't have a problem, but enough will that it will be less effort to just buy a new version of Windows than spend your time waiting on hold.

      I'm not trying to insult you here. Just point out that scumbags have tricked you into accepting abuse. You are a victim.

    9. Re:Consumers are in the driver's seat now. by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      You statement makes no sense. You say that you have never had a problem, but you also say that you have asked for a code, as in your install failed and had to phone them.

    10. Re:Consumers are in the driver's seat now. by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      I don't mind product keys

      Why not? They're a pain in the ass to enter, it's stupid that you have to enter a product key AND register online or (as I've had to do) call a computer with your cell phone (some of us no longer have landlines, Mr Gates) and enter yet another number.

      Inconviniencing the paying customer is bad business. Inconviniencing the customer "to fight piracy" when the commercial copyright infringer isn't even slowed down is just plain retarded.

      and can be a pain when you loose them

      How can you set a product key free? Or did you use the wrong verb?

      they aren't very intrusive after you've entered them

      Well DUH, the pain in the ass is having to enter the damned things in the first place. I want some of whatever you're on, dude! I could use some good tranks.

    11. Re:Consumers are in the driver's seat now. by Farmer+Pete · · Score: 1

      I didn't have any problems with the person on the phone. They quickly and with no hassle gave me the activation code. I don't consider a phone call a problem, as long as I get what I need.

    12. Re:Consumers are in the driver's seat now. by powerlord · · Score: 1

      Yes, it was a legitimate key.
      No, it wasn't an OEM key.

      Never heard you had to wait six months between activations to avoid a problem, but its an odd thing to me that there is even an issue.

      I did notice when I moved to new hardware ~1 year ago that I DIDN'T have a problem that time despite having one the time before so perhaps enough time had elapsed

      I've also had colleagues who used XP in a VM environment, had legitimate non OEM copies, and had to go through hell to get the licenses turned back on because they had "reinstalled too many times".

      --
      This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
    13. Re:Consumers are in the driver's seat now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've never had a problem activating windows xp.

      After reinstall i run the crack. And it fixes it all up perfectly.

      I've never had to call anyone for persmission to use the software i bought.

    14. Re:Consumers are in the driver's seat now. by mjwx · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think you could make the argument that a recession makes for extreme competition, and its quite likely that it could turn out that DRM simply has to be dropped because a) it requires more money to actually DRM enable a product, particularly in testing, and b) there might be enough of a critical mass of consumers shopping for content based on the absence of DRM.

      You're trying to apply proven business logic to the media industry. Your logic is sound but the media industry is not logical, any industry that entirely relies on comoditising something that is not tangible and has no intrinsic value is not logical.

      a) DRM is not being perceived as a cost by the major publishers. The DRM peddlers keep dragging out these horrifying statistics about infringement from their arses in order to prove that a A$20 per disk license is actually saving them money. This will not change, even when Executive Directors become penniless.

      b) You're assuming that publishers listen to their customers. The only people they have to listen to are the legion of uninformed stockholders. These stockholders are shown the same statistics, don't know anything about the subject at hand, have a knee jerk reaction and demand something be done. Private corporations like Stardock don't have this problem and actually listen to their customers.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    15. Re:Consumers are in the driver's seat now. by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      It is annoying, but activation isn't inherently a problem for most people. It is usually something you only do once and then forget about it. The problem with activation is not the inconvenience---that's relatively minor.

      The real problem with activation-based DRM is that companies frequently ignore the million-dollar question: what happens if/when the company goes out of business or decides they don't want to maintain the DRM scheme anymore? One day, Microsoft may disintegrate. One of their DRM systems already did, IIRC. Those folks were stuck with products that suddenly could not be migrated to new hardware.

      I think we need a new law here: any company employing any content protection mechanism must either A. contain a dead-man's switch code (which they must provide to all current and former customers if they go under or decide to shut down the DRM servers), B. post an untouchable bond sufficient to cover the operation of the DRM servers in perpetuity, C. provide a tool that converts from an obsolete DRM scheme to a newer one with no additional restrictions, or D. provide a piece of software that removes the DRM (or a replacement copy of the software that does not use DRM) at the time of dissolution or termination of the DRM scheme.

      Further, this obligation must be automatically and unavoidably inherited by any company that purchases DRM-covered assets from any other company.

      Any hardware manufacturers who build devices that support DRM-laden formats should similarly be required to A. post a bond to cover the cost of any future upgrades to the DRM scheme if they go under AND B. agree to release the source code and development tools sufficient for the DRM scheme creator to update the hardware manufacturer's firmware with the new DRM scheme if the original DRM company chooses option C. above.

      I would go one step further and apply this to non-activation-based DRM schemes (e.g. DVDs) as a requirement for any company to provide unlock tools if and when that manufacturer stops producing content in the format in question. Oh, one more rule: no DRM scheme should be permitted to prevent the user's ability to make an identical backup copy of any protected content.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    16. Re:Consumers are in the driver's seat now. by Schnapple · · Score: 1

      You don't have to wait six months between activations, it's just that if you wait six months then you can activate over the Internet again, without having to make phone calls.

      You won't agree with me on this but it does seem reasonable to me that Microsoft would see your pattern of constant reinstalls and figure you were up to something, like putting one license on dozens of machines or pirating it or something. People who do a lot of VM work know to install a clean image, then clone that and NewSID it to avoid the activation tussle (i.e., you want ten different copies of this one VM to test ten different things).

      If however you think OS's should be free and not privy to install restrictions that's your right, too.

  15. Give the Democrats a chance. by tjstork · · Score: 1

    I'm a Republican and I'm pretty cynical about Dems, obviously, but I think in this case you can expect them to improve things like consumer labelling and consumer rights. Usually where Dems screw up is to give consumers and workers so many rights that it is pointless to invest in a business in that sector because it is difficult and ultimately unprofitable. However, the IT sector has become so anti-consumer that it is hurting the business as a whole, it seems rather unlikely that a few years of some modest consumer protections by the government would improve the public's faith in IT and the business as a whole.

    Let's just hope they don't open the door for lawsuits based on bugs in software by making it illegal to have that little clause we ALL stick in our licenses, both open and closed, that lets us off the hook if our software fails. Preventing a regulation like that from coming into being is something you would hope that Republicans would be smart enough to do, although sadly there's not too much evidence of my beloved GOP being smart about anything these days. [tongue firmly planted in cheek]

    --
    This is my sig.
  16. Re:Torch Bearing Mob by conureman · · Score: 1

    Sounds like an apt description of MY neighbors. Add edentate.

    --
    The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
  17. Actually by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'd be fine if they'd just make retailers take returns. That's the problem right now is that you can't return games. So you buy a game, turns out the DRM doesn't work on your system, or maybe you simply don't approve of it. Well too bad, it's opened, so you can't take it back. That is bullshit. I'd be happy if the government just said "You are required to accept a return on any title that has DRM on it just as you would for any other merchandise." That way if the DRM screws you over, you can just take the game back.

    Now of course they'd whine and bitch that people would use this to "rent" games. As in buy them, try them, then take them back. Possible, people are known to do that with things they want for just a little while. However that's why I'd require it only for DRM'd games. You want to release a game with no DRM, then it's fine to not take returns.

    1. Re:Actually by deraj123 · · Score: 1

      A genuine question here - aren't there fit for purpose laws that already exist that could be applied to this? As in, I purchased this software, but it doesn't work satisfactorily (screws up my computer), so I get to return it.

    2. Re:Actually by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd be fine if they'd just make retailers take returns.

      If the DRM actually doesn't work on your system and your system meets the stated game specs, then (in most juridictions) the retailer is legally required to take returns regardless of their 'policy', since the item is clearly not 'fit for purpose'. Of course, you might have to take them to the local equivalent of the UK small claims court to enforce your rights, but that shouldn't take much time or money, and could be fun - often they fail to show at court and you can then go to the store with baliffs and the court order and seize goods to cover the value of the judgement, reasonable costs and the baliff's fee. **

      ** IANAL but I'm sure this is about 99% correct.

    3. Re:Actually by RegularFry · · Score: 1

      There are in the UK. Dunno about the US.

      --
      Reality is the ultimate Rorschach.
  18. Ooops - meant "likely", not "unlikely" by tjstork · · Score: 1

    Should read. The IT sector has become so anti-consumer that it seems rather likely that some consumer protections by the federal government would restore public confidence in the sector and thus improve business as a whole. In other words, this could be a case where some prudent regulation by the Feds could make a playing field that the public trusts, and thus, buys stuff in.

    --
    This is my sig.
  19. Re:When I hear - Govt Wants To Protect the Consume by wisty · · Score: 1

    What's the bet they decide that the best way to protect consumers is to have a common, reliable DRM system, rather than ad-hoc unreliable DRM. Then they can legally enforce everyone has to use it.

    I bet that most of the attendees of any "Town Hall" meeting are paid lobbyists, and not many of them will represent consumers.

    Add that to the fact that the lobbyists will understand the problem better than our elected representatives, and their (biased) ideas will probably be the best ones to reach the ears of the real decision makers.

    Australia has this great show called "The Hollowmen", which parodies this process. I've heard it isn't too far from the truth, in some cases.

  20. Hah by X.25 · · Score: 1

    So, they'll have free drinks, chit-chat for a while, and nothing will change.

    1. Re:Hah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, they'll have free drinks, chit-chat for a while, and nothing will change.

      It might not be that bad. We might get donuts too.

  21. Here's a thought... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Stop buying them. Last I checked, computer games aren't necessary for living. If it's gotten to the point where it is this painful to buy and play them, then stop. This isn't rocket science. If a retailer has a product that you don't want, then don't purchase it. If you're unsure, do yourself a favor and don't rush out and buy it- wait and see how others react to it.

    If it hasn't gotten to that point, then stop complaining.

    But for God's sake, stop relying on businesses and the government to protect you from bad purchases. Ultimately, that's your responsibility.

    1. Re:Here's a thought... by 91degrees · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Bit I want to purchase it. I want the game and the publisher wants my money. I just don't want it bundled with the DRM. We're both losing out here!

      But if I complain, and if they listen, and they release without DRM, we'll both be richer! Win, win!

    2. Re:Here's a thought... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But you're subsidizing the pirates if you pay that way, leading to higher costs (arguably) or at least less choice (unarguably) for you. There's some balance between complete freedom (which encourages piracy) and complete restriction (which discourages use), and I would strongly suggest, given the rampant piracy in some countries and online, the balance is too far to the side of 'freedom' right now. Sure, moving the slide towards 'more intrustive DRM' might piss off a few honest users in the short term and we all wish i think for the silver bullet of totally unobtrusive yet fair DRM, but let me ask you this: what would you prefer (hypothetically): a bit more headache or twice the number of available titles in your chosen genre? I know i'd personally go for the latter (I am a microsoft flight simulator fan, and have seen the market for quality add-on products completely implode in the last 2-3 years due to rampant piracy, since for technical reasons msfs add-ons are hard to protect). the freeware alternatives dont come close in quality, generally speaking.

    3. Re:Here's a thought... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, yes... *if*.

      "If" covers a lot of ground, most of it imaginary.

      And when the world gets perfect again (I hear it was a nice place before people came about) that's a great scenario.

      But game publishers aren't known for listening. And the government isn't known for making things better.

      And this whole thing comes down to simple pragmatism. If you buy PC games, you obviously value the game with DRM more than you value not having the game. Or at least, you are willing to take the risk of crippling DRM (or potentially worse- cripplingly poor game programming) in order to avoid not having the game.

      All I'm saying is if that's a choice you're willing to make, then ultimately you have to bear some of the responsibility for what happens next. It's not like DRM comes as a big surprise these days- in fact, I'd say it's unreasonable to assume that any game you buy *won't* come with some form of restrictive DRM. If this bothers you enough that the games are no longer worth what you pay for them, in terms of money and hassle, then *don't* *buy* *them*.

      As an added bonus, nothing gets a reaction out of corporation faster than declining revenue.

    4. Re:Here's a thought... by FerociousFerret · · Score: 1

      As an added bonus, nothing gets a reaction out of corporation faster than declining revenue.

      I believe the corporate think is declining revenue == PIRACY!!!

      So, while I am with you on the "don't buy it or pirate it" boycott of DRM'd media, the corporations just won't get it.

    5. Re:Here's a thought... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No doubt there. Or at the very least, Declining Revenue != Something We Did Wrong.

      Then evolution takes over. The MAFIAA is a PITA, but their efforts can not have the desired effect of getting people to go back to buying their albums. They're going to make life miserable in the meantime, but that's also forced evolution. Even if they get ISP buy-in and are able to decrypt and inspect encrypted packets to find kiddie porn, and by that I mean media sharing, it's not sustainable. It will cause enough problems that someone will realize that they can get rich by starting an ISP that tells the MAFIAA to fsck off.

      Much the same for the game industry. They can employ all the shady tactics that they want, but you only counteract declining sales by offering a product that consumers think they want. They can claim piracy and litigate, if they want, but even shutting down The Pirate Bay won't help Spore's sales.

       

    6. Re:Here's a thought... by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      Well, the publisher doesn't want to sell it without the DRM. So you're both not losing out... just you.

    7. Re:Here's a thought... by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      I'm not buying it if it has such restrictive DRM. The publisher is missing out on my money.

    8. Re:Here's a thought... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Again- no argument here.

      But I can live without PC games. After years of therapy, experimental drug trials, and the occasional blackout when the sun hit me for the first time in years, I can finally say that. :)

      When corporations go too long without money, though, stockholders get upset. *THAT* is something a corporation cares about.

    9. Re:Here's a thought... by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      If you buy PC games, you obviously value the game with DRM more than you value not having the game.

      True. I was rather making the point that there's a rationale for complaining if you don't purchase. If you do purchase it knowing that they've also included something you don't want then I totally agree with you.

    10. Re:Here's a thought... by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      No, they are not. If two parties can't come to an agreement to which both are amenable, no one "loses." They're only willing to take your money if you're willing to accept the product as is. Does Britnay Spears "miss out" on my money because I don't like her style of music? No, she doesn't. She doesn't have any music I want, so she has not lost any money.

  22. Government involvement is not needed. People must stop buying or keep circumventing.

    1. Re:DRM by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      How are we supposed to outlaw DRM without government intervention? Government writes, enforces, and judges the law. If you are anti-government, remember that anarchy always leads to monarchy.

      The problem isn't that we have government, the problem is that government is only there for the rich and the corporations.

  23. Re:Video Games a Bad Candidate,this doesn't bode w by harl · · Score: 2, Interesting

    True on the farr use but there is a ton of case history involving computer intrusion. That's not what this is about.

    Installing software(securerom) on my computer without my permission is clearly a criminal act.

    --
    I find being offended by me offensive.
  24. "They're currently recruiting panelist" by v1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Lately that's meant that industry heavies are busy trying to stuff the panel with their own 'experts', doesn't it?

    And then three months after this is all done with, we'll start seeing stories about how a quarter of the panelists have been discovered as previously employed by one of the RIAA's shadow groups, in addition to several other panelists receipt of airline tickets to hong kong (as well as an all-expenses paid week there for a meeting) as well as other weakly disguised "gifts" being scrutinized.

    What amazes me is they continue to get away with this same old game, time and time again. This wouldn't be a problem if the followup had some teeth to it. What do you do when this all comes to light after the event? Remove them from the panel? Fat lot of good that does after they've "made their recommendations" etc.

    --
    I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    1. Re:"They're currently recruiting panelist" by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 1

      There isn't any equivalent to the RIAA or MPAA for video games, so I assume that by "industry heavies" you mean the people who actually make popular games. And yeah I'd absolutely expect the panel to be stuffed with such people, seeing as it's their decisions that are being examined, and their livelyhood that is impacted by any final decision!

  25. MOD PARENT UP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, I read this article a long time ago and it really presented the whole DRM + Piracy debate in a new light. I don't pirate games but I also felt kind of uneasy about installing DRM which had a reputation for blowing up my system. Now I don't mind at all, because the problems are generally way overrated and being a software developer I can understand totally why they would go with DRM, to make sure that their precious day one sales don't get cannibalized.

  26. Re:Video Games a Bad Candidate,this doesn't bode w by itsdapead · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There is very little case law protecting consumer fair use with video games, as compared with audio and video.

    I'd have thought that was an argument in favour of starting with video games.

    OK, so all DRM is bad, but the real horror stories (malware, limited installs, mandatory internet connections) have been with games.

    The Spore case is a particularly clear example of DRM pissing off legitimate consumers while failing to deter (and possibly encouraging) large-scale illicit copying.

    Also, whereas issues with Audio/Video DRM are normally to do with caselaw-based "fair use" rights such as format-shifting, the problems with video game DRM have been more fundamental "fitness for purpose" variety. I'm not defending audio/video DRM, but pragmatically speaking, audio DRM seems to be dying off by itself and "your lousy game broke my perfectly standard PC" is going to get more public sympathy than "why can't I watch HD content on Linux?".

    --
    In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
  27. I would probably be happy by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

    with all this DRM sh1t if these companies massively reduced their over inflated prices (which they have always claimed was because of piracy) but it still costs fortune to buy anything even when it's DRM'd to death.

    --

    Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

  28. Re:Video Games a Bad Candidate,this doesn't bode w by jellomizer · · Score: 0

    The problem with most DRM implementations they are setup for products that are only entertainment related. It is tough to say that anyone who cannot use this product due to DRM restrictions is going to suffer from it.

    Oh I am sorry you cannot play this game or play your music on Linux. But really with all the problems in the world this just seems really minor. It is akin to a wealthy man complaining about the economy and had to let go of one of his many maids.

    I would focus DRM in areas that are not entertainment related. Such as Windows Activation where you loose your OS functionality when Microsoft servers have a glitch or upgrading your PC, or worse putting Linux as your primary OS and Virtualizing Windows. This is the stuff that is hindering productive use. Things that you can get people to rally behind from a politicians perspective. Espectially with Windows as it is near impossible to pirate. As every near every PC you buy has Windows on it, and you paid MS for that indirectly. The small amount who don't buy Preloaded PC's you can assume Macs, and homebuilt for the most part. For the Macs most don't install Windows, many with Home built buy a legit version of windows. The Rest of the population who do Pirate Windows are balanced from the people take it off their system to install Linux or whatever, combined with returned Damaged Units which may just get tossed out with a legit Windows License.

    Part of the success of early Windows was the fact that it was easily pirated. Hey let me borrow your Windows 98 CD to upgrade my 95 System. Windows 98 had integrated web browser built in so after the upgrade the person started to use Internet Explorer over Netscape. Or even earlier, Lets give MS DOS a try over DR. DOS wow MS Dos runs my games so much quicker then DR. DOS. Hey MS. DOS 5 was released I think I'll buy a copy. Or hey MS Dos comes with gwbasic/QBASIC I think I will use this for development. Wow my app is nice I need a Basic Compiler QuickBasic should do the trick. Hey now with windows there is Visual Basic I will go with that.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  29. Re:Video Games a Bad Candidate,this doesn't bode w by Lord+Bitman · · Score: 1

    the Spore case is very clearly one of a handful of trolls on Amazon. Games with DRM in general, however, are a clear case of what you said.

    --
    -- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
  30. Meanwhile, in Eastern Europe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm in Eastern Europe (Ukraine) right now on a trip. Walked into a DVD/PC games/PS2 game store. There were legal copies of a tiny number of games for sale at UAH 125 each (around $15, but this number is a bit warped due to the fact that the Ukraine currency has plummeted very recently) and a giant amount of games, dvds, etc for sale for around UAH 20 to 35 each, including all of the games that were for sale legally. curious, i went into another store, then another, and found that those dispensed with the formality of even having a few legitimate games. the selection of the games was far larger than you'd find in a typical best-buy. The shopkeepers made no secret of the fact that the games were not legal.

    The thing is, it's not like these are little independent software stores run from the back of a truck. these are large multi-million dollar national (ukrain's population is about 50 million) professional chains selling this stuff.

    Furthermore, at $15 (the price for the 'full' versions), the games are at least as affordable to the average ukrainian gamer as the $45 equivalents are in the USA. the situation where ukraine (or malaysia, or china, or you name it) is some poor backwater where we might as well just tolerate this since the potential users have no money. i mean, you have to have a serious PC to play most of the modern games, and serious PC prices are pretty much the same everywhere.

    i asked the shopkeepers about business software like MS-Office. These were under the counter, but still easily available. one shopkeeper complained to me that his PC game business was down as people were flocking to the web to download stuff. a cousin of mine showed how through the university network (i mean directly on university servers) of ukraine's best university, she had access to from what i can tell tens of terabytes of films, games, software, etc just right there. this is a girl who drives a car better than most of you probably did at her age (19, new toyota land cruiser).

    So, while slashdot obsesses over the attempts of companies to protect their own material and the inevitable over-reaches that happen in that quest, you might, just might want to consider that piracy prevention is a noble and fair goal to make people pay their share. we should be supporting sensible attempts at stopping the process wherein american and western european consumers basically subsidize the entertainment for the rest of the world.

    1. Re:Meanwhile, in Eastern Europe by OneSmartFellow · · Score: 1

      ...this is a girl who drives a car better than most of you probably did at her age ...

      Sorry, you lost me on the significance of this.

    2. Re:Meanwhile, in Eastern Europe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that she has the money to pay for this stuff, obviously.

    3. Re:Meanwhile, in Eastern Europe by sbeckstead · · Score: 1

      OOOh! Cool now we know that industry shills read slash dot too!

    4. Re:Meanwhile, in Eastern Europe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      we should be supporting sensible attempts at stopping the process wherein american and western european consumers basically subsidize the entertainment for the rest of the world.

      What about the process where America and Western Countries subsidize the pharmaceutical research for the rest of the world. Or the agricultural research. Or technological research... Those get me more pissed off. But at least when they steal our own entertainment it has the side effect of making them more like us, hence easier to rule :)

  31. Re:Video Games a Bad Candidate,this doesn't bode w by Rutefoot · · Score: 1

    The pissing people off aspect isn't really even the problem. The market will sort that stuff out eventually as people stop buying products from companies that make using their products a pain in the ass.

    The damage done to PCs is the bigger issue. When you buy medication you are given a list of side effects on the packaging that warns you of potential risks. You might be buying the pills to make your penis bigger, but you have every right to know that despite the enjoyment you'll receive from the bigger dick, you might have to deal with that pesky issue of having a heart attack or aneurysm.

    Software gives you no such warning. People have a right to know that installing a game might end up forcing them to take their computer in to get repaired and/or losing all of their data because of hidden software (extreme example).

  32. Re:Video Games a Bad Candidate,this doesn't bode w by dontbgay · · Score: 1

    "the Spore case is very clearly one of a handful of trolls on Amazon. Games with DRM in general, however, are a clear case of what you said."

    So you mean the trolls did something good?

    --
    Sig not found.
  33. Re:Video Games a Bad Candidate,this doesn't bode w by Shakrai · · Score: 1

    You might be buying the pills to make your penis bigger

    Something tells me that the "medication" sold to make your penis bigger probably doesn't come with full disclosure of potential side effects ;)

    --
    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
    We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  34. Damn, no Funny mod points left! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This post is really great, how it manages to remain on the edge of trolling, but you're not quite sure.

    Well, I might be feeding the trolls today, but if the poster was serious, he also forgot that little thing, you know, what was it? "Totally destroying the resale value and second-hand market"? Yes, that's it!

  35. Re:Video Games a Bad Candidate,this doesn't bode w by dontbgay · · Score: 1

    Excellent point, but you won't garner any public support as it is now. People want their computers to play games, surf the internet, look at porn, and do their banking. They don't care about installs because they don't do them. People don't realize that things aren't the way they're supposed to be. This is a step in the right direction because it addresses something that everyone can get behind. When the precedent for striking down or curbing DRM has been set, we can hope for someone out there to broaden the scope.

    --
    Sig not found.
  36. Protect Consumers by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    My ass.

    They are going to protect the interests of the mega corporations that funnel donation money in.

    Its how the 'system' works.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  37. Re:Video Games a Bad Candidate,this doesn't bode w by Zenaku · · Score: 1

    That's because sugar pills don't have any side-effects.

    --
    If fate makes you a motorcycle, you become a motorcycle.
  38. RIAA and MPAA license to big game developers by tepples · · Score: 4, Informative

    What does the MAFIAA have to do with gaming DRM?

    • RIAA members license music for use in DDR, Guitar Hero, and Rock Band.
    • RIAA members license music for use in sport simulations.
    • MPAA members license story treatments, settings, and characters for use in games based on film or TV franchises.
    • Sony makes video game consoles and is also a member of the RIAA and MPAA.
  39. Re:Video Games a Bad Candidate,this doesn't bode w by Shakrai · · Score: 1

    That's because sugar pills don't have any side-effects.

    Well if you eat enough of them they might make other parts of your body fat but probably not the part that you bought them for ;)

    --
    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
    We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  40. The Spore issue isn't just DRM, it's malware by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A DVD or Bluray player, right out of the box, implements DRM. It doesn't need modification, because it comes pre-crippled. When the user buys a shiny disc and inserts it (and executes code from it, in the case of Bluray) nothing unexpectedly bad can happen. The player device is not damaged.

    On personal computers, though, the situation is altogether different. DRM isn't already implemented out-of-the-box; installing malware is the only way to implement it. When you install Spore, your software environment is damaged, even when you're not playing Spore.

    FTC shouldn't talk about this as a discussion of DRM itself, because DRM problems will still exist regardless of anything FTC does. They should instead call it a discussion about malware that implements the DRM.

    This is ultimately about what labeling conventions imply consent on the part of the victim. If there isn't informed consent, then what Spore's publishers did is a crime, so there should be both criminal and civil sanctions, just like there would be if the author of some spam botnet worm were caught. If there is informed consent, then the victim isn't a victim of crime, they're just a victim of their own stupidity because they bought Spore when they should have known better.

    Hopefully the outcome will be that the FTC will say that any software that is sold over state lines, will have to have a label on the outside of the box and in all advertisements: "this contains malware and will damage your operating system if installed" in situations where that happens to be the case.

    --
    "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
    1. Re:The Spore issue isn't just DRM, it's malware by bentcd · · Score: 1

      A DVD or Bluray player, right out of the box, implements DRM. It doesn't need modification, because it comes pre-crippled. When the user buys a shiny disc and inserts it (and executes code from it, in the case of Bluray) nothing unexpectedly bad can happen. The player device is not damaged.

      Not until they revoke your player's key. Then something bad happens.

      --
      sigs are hazardous to your health
    2. Re:The Spore issue isn't just DRM, it's malware by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Installing malware, whether it's on SPORE or a Sony-BMG music CD, should be a felony punishable by prison. Don't hold your breath waiting for that legislation to pass.

      The US is a plutocracy where the rich and corporations can "contribute" to both viable candidates (meaning that whichever one loses, the corporation wins) even though the corpration has no voting rights. So it's easy to see how our "democraticalyy elected republic" (HAH!) puts up with this shit - the voter really has no choice.

      It's harder to understand why civilized nations with multiple political parties are gamed like this. Can any Europeans explain this to me?

      Short of public funding I'd like to see two reforms to the US method of funding political races:

      1. it is a felony for any party or or candidate to accept contributions from anyone not eligible to vote for that candidate. Bill Gates lives in Redmond, he is not eligible to vote for Senator Durbin and therefore should not be eligible to contribute to Durbin's campaign. For those who scream "free speech", money contributions are NOT speech.
      2. It should be a felony to contribute to any one candidate in any given race. A contribution to more than one candidate is simply a thinly disguised bribe and should not be tolerated.

      These felonies should carry ten year prison terms.

    3. Re:The Spore issue isn't just DRM, it's malware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your ideas are about campaign finance reform are interesting. Here's what I'd like to see:

      1. Elimination of tax benefits for campaign contributions.

      2. For any given race, all donations must go into a "pot", and after a pre-determined date, the money is distributed equally to all valid candidates. Donations received after the cutoff date would go to the appropriate government treasury, no refunds.

    4. Re:The Spore issue isn't just DRM, it's malware by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 1

      Installing malware, whether it's on SPORE or a Sony-BMG music CD, should be a felony punishable by prison.

      No, you shouldn't go to prison for buying and installing Spore. You bear the consequences, so that's punishment enough.

      Nor should the publisher be punished, if the installer understands and consents. Some people think Windows is malware, and some don't. If you decide it's not, then it's not my place to punish Microsoft on the grounds that you don't understand what you're doing.

      Just provide information, and let people be responsible for their choices. That's why malware labeling should be the issue.

      --
      "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
    5. Re:The Spore issue isn't just DRM, it's malware by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      OK, I know you're just fucking with me (trolling) but I'll respond anyway.

      No, you shouldn't go to prison for buying and installing Spore

      Spore's installer installs the malware, NOT the end user. Suggesting that the user be imprisoned is ludicrous.

      Nor should the publisher be punished, if the installer understands and consents

      Nobody gave consent for Sony to install a rootkit on my computer (my daughter installed it, trusting Sony... which she will never do again) nor did anybody consent to installing SPORE's malware.

      Some people think Windows is malware

      That's just a stupid joke that I'm guilty of telling as well. Nobody considers Windows as malware, although its shoddy design makes getting malware on your machine easy.

      Just because you consider a dog to be a cat doesn't make it a cat. There's this thing on the internet called "wikipedia" and another called "dictionary.com". You might want to look up "malware" some time.

      It's a felony to "harm a protected computer". If I did to Sony what they did to me (and got caught) I'd go to prison. Sony's executives should go to prison as well.

  41. WGA? by argent · · Score: 1

    Will they even consider requiring notifications about more important DRM like Microsoft's trusted media path, tilt bits, and "windows genuine advantage"?

    Oh, was that a rhetorical question?

  42. The only thing that will work by JustNiz · · Score: 1

    The only thing that will work is to vote with our wallets.
    Don't put up with any DRM at all in your life.
    Just don't buy any media, software, operating system or even device that implements DRM.

    I'm guessing EA are already suprised by a large difference in estimated and real profits of spore. In fact I hope they actually made a net loss on it after development costs. They need to get the clear message that people didn't buy it because of the DRM and not just blame their low sales on the game being crap or the recession or something.

    As soon as comapnies like EA realise they will actually lose sales just by using DRM, DRM will go away. It seems Apple/I-Tunes got the message recently. Hopefully EA will be next.

    1. Re:The only thing that will work by Pentium100 · · Score: 1

      It won't work. Any decline in sales will be blamed on piracy (and not on DRM or the fact that the game sucks).

      And since only piracy is responsible for decline in sales, EA will need stronger DRM.

  43. Re:Video Games a Bad Candidate,this doesn't bode w by causality · · Score: 1

    The problem with most DRM implementations they are setup for products that are only entertainment related. It is tough to say that anyone who cannot use this product due to DRM restrictions is going to suffer from it.

    Anyone who, acting in good faith, pays good money for any product that turns out to be unusable, when there was a reasonable expectation that it should be usable, has suffered. This is more true, not less, when the actual cause of the problem is not an honest mistake but a deliberate restriction. Any person who fits my description who is denied a refund has been defrauded. That's the essence of the phrase "defective by design".

    Oh I am sorry you cannot play this game or play your music on Linux. But really with all the problems in the world this just seems really minor. It is akin to a wealthy man complaining about the economy and had to let go of one of his many maids.

    There is an idea, well really it's more of an observation, that every big menacing problem was once a small problem that could have been easily dealt with. It's our lack of foresight and our unwillingness to take an idea to its completion that keeps us from seeing the problems while they are still small.

    "I can't play this music on Linux" is a very small problem indeed. "I can't make any changes to any equipment I supposedly own or view any media for which I bought a license without first obtaining approval from several different companies" is a much larger problem. Both have the same nature. The only difference between them is degree. The first example is the small problem that is tough but not so hard to deal with. The second example is more like what you would get if the acceptability of this kind of control is taken to its conclusion. The problem is that this is very much a "frog soup" type of situation, so the time to start protesting it is now.

    That's the beauty of having principles and considering these matters in terms of underlying principles. You don't have to wait until freedoms are taken away before you realize that this is where the situation is headed. You also don't have to worry about whether it's a big step towards reducing freedom or a baby-step towards reducing freedom before you realize that any step towards that is simply unacceptable.

    --
    It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
  44. DRM Is just a last gasp by cdrguru · · Score: 2, Interesting

    When copyright is revoked and universal distribution of everything for free is the rule, there will be no more DRM.

    Only free software will exist, because nobody will be able to charge anything for it anymore.

    Of course, the quality might suffer a little and there might be a few less items out there, but it will all be free. Oh, and you might have to spend a week or so figuring out how to compile a game before you can play it.

    Until some really smart people figure out how this can actually work it is going to be tough. People really want stuff for free and plenty of people are willing to buy things and post them for all to download. Of course, a lot of that is stuff bought with stolen credit cards... but the spirit is there. I don't see any turning back from the "it all should be for free" movement. At least until the last vestiges of decadent Western civiilization is wiped off the map.

    1. Re:DRM Is just a last gasp by bentcd · · Score: 2, Informative

      When copyright is revoked and universal distribution of everything for free is the rule, there will be no more DRM.

      Only free software will exist, because nobody will be able to charge anything for it anymore.

      You are mistaken. It is perfectly possible to make good money charging for an item that can also be obtained for free. You just need to know your market and have a good idea of people's cutoff point between cost and convenience.

      There's plenty of companies reaping huge profits from selling plain bottled water in towns and cities were you can get perfectly good water for free through your kitchen tap. It's just that stepping into that store over there and plonking down a buck for a bottle of water is /so much more convenient/ than walking for an hour to get home so you can get free water. (And, yeah, there are other reasons too.)

      What enterprising software vendors need to figure out in a copyright-free environment is what conveniences people want online and then provide them with such. One obvious one is to ensure that the software you sell them has been rigorously virus-screened and is delivered via secure mechanisms so that they can worry less about the security aspect. Timely, secure delivery of relevant updates is another. Liability coverage may be important to some (e.g. if the software you deliver screws up their computer you're responsible for it). Cleverer minds than mine would be gunning for the $billions in this market, of course, so the list would go on and you'd need to "(Click to read the rest of this comment)".

      --
      sigs are hazardous to your health
    2. Re:DRM Is just a last gasp by sbeckstead · · Score: 1

      The consumer always wants the best stuff for free. The job of the seller/manufacturer/distributor is to guess how much the consumer will part with for the quality you can give. This has always been and will always be.

  45. Re:Video Games a Bad Candidate,this doesn't bode w by lostfayth · · Score: 1

    Think of the diabetics!

  46. Re:Video Games a Bad Candidate,this doesn't bode w by plasmacutter · · Score: 1

    This isn't about "i can't watch HD content on linux"

    it's more along the lines of..

    I popped this disk into my completely normal beige box computer and it blacked my screen. I'm being ripped off.

    --
    VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
  47. Solution by Dishevel · · Score: 1

    The solution to DRM is easy. It is consumers caring. If they don't care enough then DRM will continue to harm the consumers. When they stand up and quit buying products from companies that use it those companies will stop.

    Government involvement though will almost certainly screw things up even more. I cant for the life of me remember one thing the government has gotten involved in during my lifetime that they did not make worse.

    --
    Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
  48. Re:Video Games a Bad Candidate,this doesn't bode w by ultranova · · Score: 2, Funny

    That's because sugar pills don't have any side-effects.

    Maybe they're sugar pills, or maybe they're dried blood serum of Ebola victims rolled into pills and personally cursed by the High Priest of the Church of Satan to weed the stupid from the world. All you know for sure is that you got them from some shady character on the Internet who's whereabouts you don't know and who is unlikely to ever make business with you again, making him far less trustworthy or interested in your continued wellbeing than the neighbourhood drug dealer. So the question is:

    Do you feel lucky, punk ?

    --

    Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

  49. Mod Parent up, and GGP Down! by plasmacutter · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This post is really great, how it manages to remain on the edge of trolling, but you're not quite sure.

    Well, I might be feeding the trolls today, but if the poster was serious, he also forgot that little thing, you know, what was it? "Totally destroying the resale value and second-hand market"? Yes, that's it!

    That and GGP is nothing more than a thinly veiled troll as well. Pretty much all the +5's I remember from that were very simple.. "you, the author of this article, are either a moron or deliberately disingenuous"

    --
    VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
  50. Re:Video Games a Bad Candidate,this doesn't bode w by plague3106 · · Score: 1

    Except that you bought the disc with said software, put it in your computer, and then ran this installer. That's not criminal at all.

  51. Translation by readin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Allow me to translate:

    Ars Technica reports that the FTC is getting ready to take a hard look at gaming DRM, setting up a town hall meeting to be held on March 25th. They're currently recruiting panelists, and they say the meeting will, in part, "address the need to improve disclosures to consumers about DRM limitations."

    A longer legal notice will be included with each product (alongside the warnings about not sticking a fork in electric sockets or using the device as a parachute when jumping from an airplane) thus making it less likely to be read by comsumers, less likely to be understood if they do read it, and written in a smaller font so it can still fit on the same amount of paper.

    The controversy over DRM came to a head in 2008 with the release of Spore and the multiple subsequent class-action lawsuits focusing on the SecuROM software that came with the game. Ars Technica says the town hall meeting will also look at "legal issues surrounding DRM"

    New laws will be written to protect the makers of Spore, SecuROM and other DRM enabled or enabling technology from the evils of class action lawsuits that would otherwise result when consumers find they can't use the products they have paid for.

    and "the potential need for government involvement to protect consumers."

    Consumers will be protected from the higher prices that result when people are able to use a purchased product more than once. By making sure people can only use a product one time, people will need to keep repurchasing the same item over and over, allowing manufacturers to produce larger numbers of the same item and sell these items at a volume discount.

    The phrase government involvement may scare some readers, but don't worry! Those generous manufacturers, who only want to keep our prices low after all, will be watching the FTC, providing donations to the right lawmakers, all to make sure that consumer interests are protected every step of the way.

    --
    I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
  52. And once again pirates have it easier... by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 3, Informative

    When Windows XP was released, some big customers were worried about depending on an external instance for authorization.

    Microsoft appeased them by releasing the "Corporate Edition" that didn't require remote authorization.

    Guess what happened?
    The "Corporate Edition" got pirated. Once again, those who pirate the software are bothered less than legitimate customers...

    --
    C - the footgun of programming languages
    1. Re:And once again pirates have it easier... by digitalunity · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What if I'm both?

      I've bought XP twice already with new computers but got sick of the activation bullshit after upgrading motherboards and pirated the corporate edition to avoid it.

      So I paid for XP twice and got XP Corp. Illegal? Yep.

      Unethical? Not to me it isn't.

      --
      You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
    2. Re:And once again pirates have it easier... by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Then, just like the rest of us, you are a victim.

    3. Re:And once again pirates have it easier... by Failed+Physicist · · Score: 1

      Same thing for me. Bought an xp license with my laptop, but of course the shop never gave me a cd key or even a cd, all they tell you is to make a backup cd. Did I really want to backup all the crapware that comes with a laptop? No.

      So when the XP install finished rotting after a couple years, I installed ubuntu on the laptop, and now I consider that I possess the legitimate right to "pirate" (for the lack of a better word - it isn't pirating, since it belongs to me) one copy of XP at a time. So my windows desktop is currently running a pirated version, but I don't feel guilty in the slightest.

  53. Re:Video Games a Bad Candidate,this doesn't bode w by Shakrai · · Score: 1

    All you know for sure is that you got them from some shady character on the Internet who's whereabouts you don't know and who is unlikely to ever make business with you again

    That's why I get all of my penis enlargement pills from that guy on late night TV ads. TV is a lot more trustworthy than the internet ;)

    --
    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
    We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  54. Re:Video Games a Bad Candidate,this doesn't bode w by harl · · Score: 4, Insightful

    FAIL.

    I bought Game X. I installed Game X. I consented to Game X I never knew that I was also installing SecureROM. It never tells you on the package nor in the EULA nor in the installer. That's unauthorized computer usage. That's completely criminal.

    Consenting to something does not mean I'm consenting to everything.

    --
    I find being offended by me offensive.
  55. Gunpoint Government Not The Answer by TonyXL · · Score: 1

    If you aren't sure of something or don't like it, DON'T BUY IT.

    We don't need government agents deciding how things should work. The last thing we need is a federal usage rights management agency.

  56. Re:Video Games a Bad Candidate,this doesn't bode w by Zenaku · · Score: 1

    As a matter of fact I do! Just yesterday I was chosen to receive a very handsome sum of money from a member of the Nigerian royal family, and barely an hour later, not one but seven gorgeous women sent me flirtatious messages on MySpace.

    I'm on a roll!

    --
    If fate makes you a motorcycle, you become a motorcycle.
  57. Re:Video Games a Bad Candidate,this doesn't bode w by harl · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So by loading a web page that has a silent trojan installer you consent to have your machine rooted and joined to a bot net?

    You opened the browser. You went to the web page.

    --
    I find being offended by me offensive.
  58. Re:Video Games a Bad Candidate,this doesn't bode w by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The pissing people off aspect isn't really even the problem. The market will sort that stuff out eventually as people stop buying products from companies that make using their products a pain in the ass.

    Publisher: People are not buying games for PC or they are just pirating due to DRM.
    Developer: Well how about we turn all our focus for game development to consoles and fuck everyone over who enjoys PC gaming. If there is a big enough demand maybe we can give the PC gamers a terrible watered down console port that barely works with even more DRM. This way they will just go buy the console version.
    Publisher: Great idea!!! We'll get right on that start making the squeal to "Epic FPS PC game" for the consoles. Make sure to dumb the game play and storyline down to the average console gamers attention span and IQ. If the PC gamers don't like it, fuck em we'll give them the shitty port a year later with SecuROM, CD-Keys, Online account creations and require six logins to different web services before they can play.

  59. DRM isn't perfect either. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So pick ONE imperfect control mechanism, not both.

  60. I can repeat that feat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Start an OpEd stating that fucking 11 year olds is OK and should be allowed freely everywhere and then say that there will just be a knee-jerk reaction from all those idiots who won't, don't and can't think.

    And you know what?

    I'll be right.

  61. One good thing the FTC could do... by Xenographic · · Score: 1

    If they don't ban DRM outright, one good thing they could do is to enforce some labeling requirements.

    Something like:

    "This game includes DRM:

    * It will not be unintstalled with the game.
    * It prevents you from using other software, specifically:
      - Virtual CD-ROM software (e.g. Alcohol 120%)
      - PC Emulators
    * It requires you to insert the original CD/DVD when playing the game.
    * It reports data back to the licensing server whenever you are connected to the internet, including but not limited to:
      - License #
      - Computer specifications (CPU speed, etc.)
      - Other software installed on the system (other games, modifications to this game, other software that looks like it might be a crack or a form of the banned software listed above).
    * This game will cease to work when the licensing server goes offline in 2012."

    I wonder how many people would agree to conditions like that if they had to be spelled out up front? Then again, I guess people would still buy it and complain. But maybe that's not entirely a bad thing. The publishers need to hear a lot of complaints from customers...

  62. You just didn't realize it. by Belial6 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That is because you have been desensitized to the abuse your received.

    About a week after my son's second birthday, I formatted his hard drive and gave him a copy of Ubuntu Linux. He sat down and installed his OS with no help and no problems. You, presumably a full grown adult, had to call the manufacturer to get help installing your OS. You were reduced to a lower level of competency than a two year old child.

    The reason that you could not accomplish the same task as a 2 year old must be attributed one of the two factors that was different. 1) The person doing the install. Or 2) The OS being installed.

    Now, while I like to think that my kid is exceptionally smart, I don't for a second believe that your intelligence is less than a 2 year old. That leaves the fact that you did have a problem with the software, and just didn't realize it.

    1. Re:You just didn't realize it. by Chosen+Reject · · Score: 1

      I like to think that my kid is exceptionally smart

      Your kid is exceptionally smart. I have a 2 year old. I know lots of other 2 year old kids. Not a single one of them "a week after [their] second birthday" could have done much on the computer other than bang the keyboard and wave the mouse, much less install an OS.

      That, or you don't have any kids and just made up the whole story to make a point. I get the point, but I doubt your story.

      --
      Stop Global Warming!
      Just say no to irreversible processes!
    2. Re:You just didn't realize it. by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Yes, my kid exists. Look, I get that my kid is a super genius. My wife and I have had many conversations with him about how he has to hide how smart he is from other kids and their parents, but really, at two, the best a kid being able to do being bang the keyboard and wave the mouse, is farther from the 'norm' than my kid is. My kid has been pretty much on track for being on par with kids that are double his age. At 1 it took all of about 5 minutes to show him how to turn the machine on, and how to use the mouse and keyboard. An hour of playing with gCompris, and another 5 minutes showing him how to load gCompris, and he was set to go as a computer user. Within a couple of days, he was loading and using various applications with no further instruction. If he could handle that at 1, a normal kid could surly handle it at 2.

      Give your kid a chance. He will surprise you. Take an old computer, install Ubuntu and gComprise, and show him how the mouse and keyboard work by loading up the mouse games. Then let him have free access to the computer. Within a few days, your kid will be relatively competent on the computer.

      While some kids like being up high, I found the perfect computer desk for a 1-2 year old is the cheap square end tables from IKEA. They are plenty stable for a monitor, have plenty of leg room for a 1-2 year old, and is at the perfect height for a 1-2 year old. All you need is a kid sized chair (which you likely already have) and you have a perfect computer desk. Also, go buy a "laptop" mouse. One of those tiny ones. It will fit your kids hand way better than a full size mouse. At 4 my kid still prefers the smaller size over standard sized mice.

      That aside, it doesn't change the fact that you were reduced to a lower competency level than even an "exceptionally smart" 2 year old. And I defiantly doubt the problem was on your end.

    3. Re:You just didn't realize it. by Chosen+Reject · · Score: 1

      Maybe it's just that I don't let my kid around my PC when I'm not there, and when I am, it's because I'm doing something. I've never thought about teaching her how to use it. She did figure out the DVD player on her own some time around a year old. I do have a spare laptop around, I should do what you recommend and see what she can do. Thanks for the suggestion. It wasn't something I thought to even try.

      Also, I wasn't the guy who you were replying to about having to call to install an OS.

      --
      Stop Global Warming!
      Just say no to irreversible processes!
    4. Re:You just didn't realize it. by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Sorry about the identity confusion.

      If your going to give your daughter computer access, you will want to keep in mind that a two year old is going to be rougher on things than most adults. For that reason, I don't really recommend a laptop. I started with an old spare laptop as well, and it took about 2 weeks for my 1 year old to pick the 'A' key off. Even adults have a tendency to break laptops, so you will need to expect that it will get broken. Full PCs on the other hand use cheap and extremely durable keyboards. I have literally stepped on regular keyboards and not broken them.

      If you do go the laptop route, do yourself a favor and get an external keyboard and mouse. You still won't be able to hide the laptop behind the monitor, as your daughter will need to have access to the power button, but at least it doesn't have to have it's flimsy keyboard right in front of her face. And the external mouse is a must if you don't want the experience to be an exercise in frustration for her. Laptop touch pads and 'eraser nubs' are not ideal for adults. They will be far worse for a small child.

    5. Re:You just didn't realize it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a normal kid could surly handle it at 2.

      I think you meant "surely", not "surly".

      And I defiantly doubt the problem was on your end.

      And I think the word you were looking for here is "definitely", not "defiantly".

      Let's hope your "super genius" son hasn't inherited your talent for language.

  63. DRM is not DRM as defined by the DMCA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What I want them to address is the fact that many DRM mechanisms as defined by the DMCA are no longer and possibly never have served their intended purpose as an effective copyright control measures, instead they being used to create tiered levels of personal usage rights for which they may charge you more for allowing you the same rights you used to get for free. How can they define their DRM as an effective copyright measures if they are selling the same materials without it? What DRM is really doing is fair use rights control. This is an important distinction as by the purchase of the music you are supposed to legally gain fair use rights but the DMCA's anti-circumvention clause makes effectively aborts this. DRM is now being used as a method of restricting and profiting from persons' desire for fair use. This is not a copyright restriction mechanism, it is fair usage rights restriction mechanism which should render the DMCA circumvention provision inapplicable.

  64. 1st post! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    oh! wait

  65. And he was by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So why is that wrong?

  66. Re:Video Games a Bad Candidate,this doesn't bode w by Eskarel · · Score: 1

    This isn't so much an issue of fair use as it is an issue of fit for purpose.

    SecuROM installs without permission(sometimes it'll even install without actually even installing the game, before you've agreed to any license whatsoever), it's almost impossible to remove, and it causes issues both with the system its installed on and sometimes with the games its installed for.

  67. Did you really mean CD-based? by tepples · · Score: 1

    since then I've not bought any CD-based games that have DRM.

    But have you bought any DVD-based, cart-based, UMD-based, or BD-based games that have DRM? All video game consoles require all game media to have DRM.

    1. Re:Did you really mean CD-based? by Martin+Blank · · Score: 1

      I don't play console games, and haven't since around the time of the SNES, save for an hour playing SMB on a Wii a year or two ago. I spend enough on my PC to play current games (and not enough hours of that as it is); I wouldn't be buying enough console games to make it worthwhile. In any case, I consider the console interfaces to be inferior to those available on a PC.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    2. Re:Did you really mean CD-based? by tepples · · Score: 1

      I don't play console games

      Most games published on PCs require a separate PC and a separate copy of each game for each player. What do you do when friends or family visit your home and want to play video games with you? Do you tell them "bring your own PC or don't play"? I guess my perception is colored by the fact that I regularly babysit my cousins.

    3. Re:Did you really mean CD-based? by Martin+Blank · · Score: 1

      I don't have people over that often, and when I do, we generally remain downstairs while the computers are upstairs. Multiplayer games are played online; I haven't doubled up on a game with two people in the house in a few years. If they want to play a game I have as a trial, they play it on my computer under a separate profile so as not to corrupt my own settings.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
  68. IGNORANCE by Slyvena · · Score: 1

    We live in an age where good-faith isn't enough. DRM is necessary because of rampant piracy issues which have already seen companies switch to primarily console development.

  69. Re:Video Games a Bad Candidate,this doesn't bode w by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds like GTA 4 to me. Rockstar can lick my sweaty nuttsack. Goddamned motherfucking cock-sucking shit eaters.
    Oh, and fuck Valve too. Fuckin slimeballs wont even give refunds for distributing a completely broken shit-fest like GTA4. It's not like they're gonna have to eat some shipping costs... fuckin' assholes.

    FUCK ALL YOU GODDAMNED DRM USING PRICKS!

  70. fortune is wise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fortune cookie at the bottom when I loaded this thread: "Insanity is the final defense ... It's hard to get a refund when the salesman is sniffing your crotch and baying at the moon."

  71. Well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    34.6 chances of backfiring. If not you know what's next....