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Wii Game Devs Testing Waters With Less-Casual Games

Posted by Soulskill on from the timmy-is-confused dept.

MTV's Multiplayer Blog has a pair of interviews with Wii game developers about how they're struggling to reach a more hardcore gaming audience. Jordan Itkowitz, lead designer for Deadly Creatures, wants to stay away from designing a typical collection of mini-games, saying, "The trick is to get those new players to step outside that easy comfort zone and try some genres and experiences that, while accessible and familiar to gamers, are still a bit foreign to anyone who's new to the culture." Dan Borth of Red Fly Studio is skeptical of the viability of hardcore games without relying on Nintendo and other major companies to "put a valiant effort in properly supporting developers to create great games."

19 of 104 comments (clear)

  1. warning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    do not view the comments in -1 mode. that is all.

  2. They'll sell by Toonol · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yes, a lot of Wiis sold to casual gamers. But do they really think hardcore gamers didn't purchase a Wii? Of course they did, to sit next to their 360. They would buy a decent game no matter what console it's for.

    There is massive untapped potential for the Wii. I know the graphics are less powerful, but the Wiimote still lends itself to 1st person shooters better than any gamepad. Resident Evil proved that. And the Wii is the only console that a RTS (like Starcraft) would even be possible to be played on. Keep in mind, development costs on a AAA title for the Wii are half or less what they would be on a 360 or PS3.

    Please, just make some games for it. Please.

    1. Re:They'll sell by Crookdotter · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not to every demographic, certainly not to me. I play games on the PC (CoD, HL etc - the big grown up games), yet on the Wii I mainly play silly games, like mario kart or sonic or brain training stuff, or guitar hero. This is because the missus also plays on the wii (who wasn't any kind of gamer before the wii).

      One is the typical lone player in a room somewhere, the other is a social or family game played in the living room. I don't think we'd play hardcore games on the wii at all.

      Kids seem to favour the Xbox at the moment - Wii isn't regarded so highly by them and the PS3 is too expensive with not great titles. I think Nintendo are between a rock and a hard place, in that they've done wonders to expand the demographic of players on the Wii, but in doing so they've had to market casual and family games rather than hardcore games because it's families who play the Wii the most.

    2. Re:They'll sell by pizzach · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, 1st person shooters on a wiimote? That's insane, you'd _actually_ have to be a good shot to be any good at the game and I doubt most gamers are.

      Not really. From what I have seen all first person shooters have a shooting ridicule so you know exactly where the shot is going to go. It really is a lot like aiming with a mouse in that way. With traditional first person shooters you had to feel for the correct spot.

      However I can't think of a better way to play Diablo or some other hack&slash than with a wiimote that carefully translates your actions into sword movements. THAT would be awesome! Does it even have enough precision by the way?

      Not likely or at least not easily. But Wii-motion plus should hopefully fix things. From what I have seen, the motion controls on the wiimote aren't that amazing, but the pointer controls work really well.

      --
      Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
    3. Re:They'll sell by RiotingPacifist · · Score: 2, Informative

      I know the graphics are less powerful, but the Wiimote still lends itself to 1st person shooters better than any gamepad. Resident Evil proved that. And the Wii is the only console that a RTS (like Starcraft) would even be possible to be played on.

      When i tried playing resident evil on the wii i found that the wiimote simply doesn't make a very good gun, you have to aim the a crosshair by moving the wiimote instead of just aiming. If the wiimote was ever made into a good aiming device then perhaps it would be good for "gun games" (i cant think of the correct genre name but timecrises and resident evil are not really FPS in the hardcore "oh shit i forgot to sleep again" sense) but the problem is that most genres need you to be able to control the direction and movement of the character, and if you want to achieve this you either lose the benefit of aiming with the wiimote, or end up with a complex control system which looses the benefit of the wiimote entirely.

      Hardcore games tend to come in 3 main genres RPG, FPS, RTS (and their multilayer variants). The Wii doesn't have the control scheme to compete on FPS (mouse+keyboard or joysticks) which is generally what the majority of hardcore gamers play. While the wii could make some ground up on RTS and RPG it multiplayer aspect is defiantly lacking (i have to admit that Microsoft have done something right with xbox live, hell enough suckers are paying monthly fees for what you get free on pc games that they must be).

      SO of 6 'hardcore' genres the wii is limited to 2, while it may be worth encouraging a few ports to the wii, nintendo are better of forgetting about hardcore gamers and just coming out with original games for casual gamers/families e.g minigame based, board games, puzzle adventures, etc

      --
      IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
    4. Re:They'll sell by Nursie · · Score: 2, Informative

      "One is the typical lone player in a room somewhere, the other is a social or family game played in the living room. I don't think we'd play hardcore games on the wii at all."

      That's just, like, your opinion, man!

      Personally I like the 360, I like FPS, but I also like doing it with friends, preferably in the same room. This is why things like Gears of War 2 utterly rock. It's an involved, all action shooter you can play split-screen co-op.

      The Wii sits largely unused because basically the games are usually like a collection of flash games with a funky controller.

      Give me something hardcore that makes good use of the Wiimote please. I know I'm not the only gamer that feels this way. I have this funny feeling that the Wii may be about the best selling console we ever see, but also with a historically low attach rate as kids/families love it but don't buy many games, and the likes of me just leave it in a corner.

    5. Re:They'll sell by alannon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I disagree entirely. Just try playing Metroid Prime 3, for example. It's a first person shooter and has fantastic controls, particularly if you compare it the Gamecube Metroid games. As good as a mouse & keyboard? That -might- be arguable. But certainly in the same class.

    6. Re:They'll sell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      ...more commonly called a "reticle."

    7. Re:They'll sell by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 4, Funny

      From what I have seen all first person shooters have a shooting ridicule

      What, like some NPC that follows you around and rags on you when you miss?

    8. Re:They'll sell by vux984 · · Score: 3, Informative

      When i tried playing resident evil on the wii i found that the wiimote simply doesn't make a very good gun, you have to aim the a crosshair by moving the wiimote instead of just aiming.

      Pretty much. The wii remote is not a light gun. The point the remote is actually pointing at is not likely the point at which the reticule is going to be at... so you can't sight down the 'barrel' of your wii remote.

      However, if you use it as intended, as a way of manipulating the on screen reticule... tilting your aim down to move the reticule down, up to move it up, etc... using the position of the reticule to guide your movements to adjust its position it works VERY well. And frankly this is exactly the same way you use a mouse on a computer or target with a thumstick on a ps3/360.

      In fact, in my opinion, it works FAR BETTER than a ps3/360 auto-centering thumbstick for aiming, and compared to the mouse its "equal but different".

      The mouse is still more precise, and you can play longer without fatigue so its better from that point of view, but standing in front of a big screen TV pointing at it with the wii remote is more visceral and immersive so its better from that point of view. ...but the problem is that most genres need you to be able to control the direction and movement of the character, and if you want to achieve this you either lose the benefit of aiming with the wiimote, or end up with a complex control system which looses the benefit of the wiimote entirely.

      It sounds like you played, Resident evil Umbrella Chronicles'. The rail-shooter.
      Try Resident Evil 4. or Metroid Prime 3 which use the thumbstick on the nunchuk to control movement to great effect, and then come back and let us know.

      It works much better than you seem to think is possible. The Wii is amazing with a good FPS title.

    9. Re:They'll sell by Nursie · · Score: 2, Informative

      It doesn't bother me in the slightest, it just doesn't really do it for me either.

      Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed stuff on the wii, but it doesn't have lasting appeal. This thread should be evidence enough for third party games companies that there *is* an audience of folks like me, regardless of the validity of my opinions on cartoony games.

    10. Re:They'll sell by TemporalBeing · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If Nintendo wanted the Wii to really take off

      Except the Wii is ALREADY the most successful platform in this generation if not in all previous generations. It's only competitor is PS2 for sales counts, and its already crushing that for where the PS2 was at the same life point.

      Face it, the Wii already took off as it is with the strategy Nintendo is already using. Why would they change it?

      Great games marry a well known genre with great stories, challenge curves, artwork, plot, and so on; all of which takes time, iterative design, and lots of competition.

      For hard core gamers, true. For everyone else, not so much. Most people care about being able to (a) have a little bit of fun, and (b) being able to play the game. For example - I love racing games, but a lot of the hard core games are just so unplayable that it makes them worthless to me unless I devote hundreds of hours learning how to play the game, which I have not desire (nor time) to do. Hard core games may love that, but the other 99% of us don't.

      Wii fit and Wii sports are nice technology demonstrators (just like Quake 3 was a great engine demonstrator on the PC), but not fantastic games.

      WiiSport and WiiFit are probably among the most played on the console among any age group. They'll likely go down as a the number one titles for this generation of consoles (if not for all generations up to it) as well if they keep up as they do. Don't forget, they're also used in a lot of places that would never have seen a console otherwise (e.g. nursing homes, rehab centers, etc).

      Wii games have not matured into proper genres yet

      I'll somewhat agree here - but even then, there are a lot of different genres on the Wii, and some likely some new genres that don't exist any where else. But that's more due to the new technology Nintendo put out than it is for the system as a gaming console.

      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
    11. Re:They'll sell by Chris+Burke · · Score: 3, Funny

      What, like some NPC that follows you around and rags on you when you miss?

      Like that fucking dog from Duck Hunt.

      Ahead of its time, apparently!

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    12. Re:They'll sell by grumbel · · Score: 2, Informative

      You should test Metroid Prime for Wii. It clearly shows that FPS games are possible for Wii.

      For me Metroid Prime 3 on the Wii showed the exact opposite. It near impossible to hit anything in that game if you don't use lock-on. The whole concept of having aiming and character rotation on the same control feels pretty broken and lock-on is the only thing that makes that game playable. Now that doesn't mean an FPS is completly impossible, it would be interesting to see a game would work where the Wiimote is used for aiming exclusivly and rotation is done by the analogstick. But as is the Wiimote is far far away from being a decent FPS control.

  3. Re:slashdot != news for nerds or stuff that matter by meringuoid · · Score: 4, Funny

    http://www.google.com/trends?q=slashdot%2C+digg

    You see that? Even sites where one can post random bullshit have become more popular than this fucking place...

    I'll go one further:

    http://www.google.com/trends?q=slashdot%2C+digg%2C+4chan

    You underestimate the popularity of random bullshit. It attracts vast numbers of people. Of course few of them have anything worthwhile to say desu desu desu desu desu. I can has cheezburger?

    --
    Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
  4. It's really quite simple by Kjella · · Score: 4, Informative

    The Wii has sold 46 million consoles. How many of those do you need to sell to in order to make a profitable "hardcore" game? Not that many...

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  5. Adult games.. where are they? by LurkingOnSlashdot · · Score: 3, Funny

    I think the Wii has a huge untapped potential for x-rated adult games with special "attachments". Why are we not seeing these materialize?

  6. Animal Crossing by rlp · · Score: 2, Funny

    There are lots of in-depth Wii games. Just not a whole lot of shooters (Res Evil, Metroid, Ghost Squad, etc.) But given that the Wii is the number one selling console worldwide, I'm sure that will change. Can't wait for "Animal Crossing - The Revenge"

    "What's that? Terrorists have siezed Tom Nook's Store?!"
    Goodbye fishing pole, hello chain-gun!

    --
    [Insert pithy quote here]
  7. As a hardcore gamer and wii owner... by ActionJesus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The problem I have with the wii currently is that I can count the number of games which I have enjoyed on one finger. (Fyi, super mario galaxy.)

    The problem seems to be that for every "serious" game on the wii, 100 "fun/party" games are released. Sure, it was cute at first, but ~2 years later and I've pretty much not touched the wii since. Sure, a few party games are kinda fun (wii sports for example), but most of them fall into the category of "do something silly with the wii remote for a few seconds, and not much else". To say nothing of the fact that I DONT SPEND EVERY MOMENT OF MY LIFE SOCIALISING WITH FRIENDS. (I know, i know, typical slashdot crowd...)

    Now, I realise that these games are probably selling left, right and centre, but it doesnt mean that you're not allowed to make decent, single player games. For chrissakes, I use the wii more as a gamecube emulator than anything else these days.

    The wii is clearly capable of running halfway decent games, but unfortunately it seems no-one is interested in producing them.

    *other note: im not including wiiware in this rant, as Im well aware that several smaller/indie developers have released stunning games, such as world of goo. But frankly, if I wanted a console with online capabilities that didnt suck, I would've bought an xbox.