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Va. Tech Students Create Experimental Bricks For the Moon

goran72 writes "Students from the college of engineering at Virginia Tech in the US have made highly durable bricks composed of a lunar rock-like material, which one day might be used to build dwellings in colonies on the moon."

137 comments

  1. But... by Thelasko · · Score: 1

    is it air tight?

    --
    One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    1. Re:But... by BobSixtyFour · · Score: 1

      Doubtful, as houses today aren't airtight. However, the only thing that really matters is if your spacesuit is airtight.

    2. Re:But... by eln · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you're looking to build some sort of permanent colony on the Moon, you're not going to want the people who live there to have to stay in their spacesuits all the time. Therefore, they need some sort of airtight living quarters. This brick seems like a neat idea for equipment storage or something like that, but probably wouldn't be too useful for living areas if it couldn't be made airtight.

    3. Re:But... by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure it will matter. It is there to keep your head dry when it rains and the bugs out... just like the house you live in now.

      --

      "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    4. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      It could still be used for structural purposes, just add an airtight layer to the interior after the rest of the building is done.

    5. Re:But... by Reece400 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, the moon bugs are very bad in the sping and don't even get me started on Monsoon season!

    6. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is there to keep your head dry when it rains and the bugs out... just like the house you live in now.

      I'm probably missing the intended humor of your post but rain isn't really an issue on the moon and if there were any bugs then they would be inside the air tight home, or nowhere at all if the home weren't air tight.

    7. Re:But... by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 2, Informative

      So you seal it. Bricks aren't water tight but some how my basement manages. Build the basic structure then cover it with self healing foam on the inside. Make it so that anytime there is an air leak it sucks some foam into the hole and seals it.

    8. Re:But... by saider · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Coat the bricks with a liner, like truck bed liner. I remember seeing a demo of that stuff where the salesman sprayed a concrete brick coated with the stuff and dropped it off of a building. The brick cracked, but the liner did not tear or separate from the brick. Neat stuff. Hopefully it can cure in a vacuum.

      --


      Remember, You are unique...just like everyone else.
    9. Re:But... by xstonedogx · · Score: 1

      No, the real question is, are they zeerki proof?

    10. Re:But... by Richard_at_work · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Build the brick structure, and then inflate the living area inside it. You now have a living area that is protected from the elements by the brick structure, and is airtight due to the inflatable liner.

    11. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The question is.... what speed is the internet?

      And, can I get wireless?

      With those questions satisfactoraliy

    12. Re:But... by Khashishi · · Score: 1

      What elements do you need to protect yourself from? There's no weather on the moon. The bricks probably won't help much against cosmic radiation.

    13. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More like Moonsoon, no?

    14. Re:But... by Arancaytar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What about the "dome habitat" concept? Is that even feasible outside science fiction?

    15. Re:But... by evilad · · Score: 1

      Spelling error: I think you meant moonson season.

    16. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Micro-meteorites? If the brick can absorb the impact, then the airtight structure inside (or the spray-on liner, or both) will have a greater chance of survival. The trick would be to have a layer of dye powder near the outside of the brick, so strikes would advertise themselves to the inspection teams.

    17. Re:But... by bcwright · · Score: 2, Informative

      Cosmic radiation is probably the least of your worries. Unless you can shield yourself from nearly all of it (which is difficult at best), you can actually make your exposure worse because the cosmic radiation will interact with the material in the shielding to produce secondary radiation which can actually be worse than the cosmic radiation itself since it will interact more readily with matter (i.e., you).

      But a lot of solar radiation is not nearly as energetic as cosmic radiation, and besides it would be very useful to have a protective heat sink so that your living quarters don't get too hot during the lunar "day" or too cold during the lunar "night."

    18. Re:But... by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      Bumps and bangs, dust, smaller meteorites, heat from the sun etc

    19. Re:But... by sanosuke001 · · Score: 1

      Do you think bricks lined with a coating can withstand the outward pressure of an atmosphere being pulled into equilibrium with it's outside surroundings?

      You would need much more than bricks, mortar, and an airtight coating to make a structurally sound, pressurized, living area.

      --
      -SaNo
    20. Re:But... by Zerth · · Score: 1

      Meteor showers in June

    21. Re:But... by e2d2 · · Score: 1

      You can regulate temperature and the rest of the environment in a building. With no atmosphere it's real cold or real hot, not much in between.

    22. Re:But... by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 1

      ***WOOOOOOOOSH***

      --

      "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    23. Re:But... by gregbot9000 · · Score: 1

      Ok, no. You miss the point. It is for shielding from impact, solar radiation, structure, and insulation. You bury a airtight bladder and then surround it with these.

      Am i the only one who got an image of an 1700's American style colony after reading the summery? "we saw the new brick mansion as we rode down the avenue in our moon buggy."

    24. Re:But... by tmosley · · Score: 1

      Actually, yes. Even a thin liner will stand up to any amount of vacuum, so long as it has a tough enough backing that it won't be pulled through any holes, causing the material to tear. The pores in these bricks would be nanoscale. No way plastic is getting pulled through holes that small.

    25. Re:But... by Auraiken · · Score: 1

      It's because everything in your basement is at equilibrium in a pressurized container already, so theres not much force in terms of it pushing everything into or out of your basement.

      The problem with the moon is that you have a bubble where everything inside it wants to explode (not literally) outwards to occupy more space and it makes for quite the engineering challenge. You then have to have some way of containing that from the outside in order to make it structurally sound and to protect it from the radiation outside. It might be best to send some sort of digger out there to make a tunnel of some sort where you can then inflate the habitat inside of it.

      Self healing foam would be a short term solution if there is nothing stopping the thing from expanding more.

    26. Re:But... by Locklin · · Score: 1

      If air pressure is 14.7 pounds per square inch, and an 8x12' wall measures 13,824 square inches, that's over 200,000 pounds of force on the wall. Yeah, bricks aren't going to hold.

      --
      "Knowledge is the only instrument of production that is not subject to diminishing returns" -Journal of Political Econom
    27. Re:But... by tmosley · · Score: 1

      They generally talk about burying these habitats, or at least building them in half-dugout style.

    28. Re:But... by gandhi_2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Bricks are like violence or astraglide.

      If it's not working, you're not using enough.

    29. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A "cindar block" (otherwise known as a concrete masonry unit) is 8x8x16.

      At 14 pounds per square inch for slightly less than standard atmospheric pressure, the 8x16 inch side of a block on the inside of the room would have to contend with 1792 pounds of air pressure against it.

      Multiply that by the number of cindar blocks in the wall of a room, and you have a LOT of pressure.

    30. Re:But... by darkvizier · · Score: 1

      It doesn't seem like that would be necessary. The solidification of the bricks takes place when an electric current is applied. Given that, you could probably make a mortar out of the same material and apply a current to that, resulting in an air tight bond.

    31. Re:But... by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Make it so that anytime there is an air leak it sucks some foam into the hole and seals it.

      Somehow, that just sounds dirty.

    32. Re:But... by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      So, you could say it was like a tire. There's a goo you can buy that will help self seal tires. Make it so that it is "liquid" in the presence of oxygen and once it hits a vacuum it locks up.

    33. Re:But... by Fluffeh · · Score: 1

      From TFA:

      The bricks could survive around 2450 punds of pressure per square inch.

      That pretty much covers your outward pressure of an atmosphere - and a lot more to boot. Having said that, you can make a wall out of the strongest bricks in the world and push it over if it isn't built right. The bricks wouldn't be the weak point in the equation, it would be the engineering design underneath it that would provide the strength/weakness of the overall building.

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      Moved to http://soylentnews.org/. You are invited to join us too!
    34. Re:But... by Darth+Hubris · · Score: 1

      You need to protect against a 14 psi/ 1 bar pressure differential. Car tires and bicycle tires do that easily. The primary constituent of moon rocks is silicon, it's not to hard to imagine them manufacturing silicone from that with a little help from carbon and hydrogen.

      --
      The party's over ... the drink ... and the luck ... ran out
    35. Re:But... by LingNoi · · Score: 1

      Don't woosh people for your failure to communicate.

    36. Re:But... by jamesh · · Score: 1

      You would need much more than bricks, mortar, and an airtight coating to make a structurally sound, pressurized, living area.

      Maybe. But if you built it underground and used these bricks to line your dugout then it would be substantially easier. I'm not sure if the ground is stable or not there, but you won't have any problems with fluctuating moisture content in clay soils!

      Either way, if the need for bricks ever does come up on the moon, not having to bring them with you will make it possible.

    37. Re:But... by Mysticalfruit · · Score: 1

      The first thing that comes to mind is micro meteors. Even if you had an inflated habitat you'd want it partly buried and then surrounded by these bricks.

      The other problem heat and cold. When it's hot it's hot, when it's cold, damn it's cold.

      What they now need to do is build a robot that would land on the moon and crank these bricks out in large quantity. Then you could just tunnel into the moon and use these to line the walls.

      --
      Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
  2. Here we go again by NickyGotz22 · · Score: 4, Funny

    The creation of moon bricks = The first step in the collapse of the lunar housing market.

    --
    Test me and I will chronicle your pain - The Archivist (Diablo 3)
  3. Brick house? by Thanshin · · Score: 1

    Who would've thought reading too many times the same fable to your children could have such results.

    Damn you little piggies!

    1. Re:Brick house? by internerdj · · Score: 4, Funny

      The competing teams building the lunar straw house and the lunar stick house are still searching for suitable materials.

    2. Re:Brick house? by Thanshin · · Score: 1

      The competing teams building the lunar straw house and the lunar stick house are still searching for suitable materials.

      Suitable as in Ragnarok-ready.

    3. Re:Brick house? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 5, Funny

      They forgot about the 4th little pig, which built his house out of carbon nanotubes.

    4. Re:Brick house? by gregbot9000 · · Score: 1

      What happened to him? Did he die of organ failure as the microscopic particles from its construction entered his blood stream?

    5. Re:Brick house? by tmosley · · Score: 3, Informative

      He was eaten by the wolf while researching how to make long enough tubes.

    6. Re:Brick house? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      Yep. Barbecued. :-P

    7. Re:Brick house? by SeattleGameboy · · Score: 1

      Who later died of cancer caused by nanotube contamination...

    8. Re:Brick house? by svank · · Score: 1

      Let me guess: scientists for parents?

  4. Energy required by sakdoctor · · Score: 3, Informative

    Aluminium is present in the moons crust, but some big nuclear reactors are going to be needed.
    First for aluminium production, then for the brick making.

    1. Re:Energy required by Thanshin · · Score: 1

      Aluminium is present in the moons crust, but some big nuclear reactors are going to be needed.
      First for aluminium production, then for the brick making.

      Also useful for the big nuclear reactor making.

    2. Re:Energy required by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Aluminium is present in the moons crust, but some big nuclear reactors are going to be needed.
      First for aluminium production, then for the brick making.

      Well they already plan to use nuclear reactors on the moon base, but oh, what's that big yellow ball of gas there right there?

      Solar energy, mate.

    3. Re:Energy required by Sir+Groane · · Score: 1

      And the aluminium can be made into the big mirror needed for the aluminium smelting furnace.

    4. Re:Energy required by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Solar Energy on the moon is much better then on earth. 2 weeks of sunlight, no clouds.
      Nuclear engergy isn't that bad of an idea on the moon too. I am sure the radiation of the sun is just as bad as nuclear waste. Even a huge wast site will just be a spec on our view of the moon.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    5. Re:Energy required by Thanshin · · Score: 2, Funny

      And the aluminium can be made into the big mirror needed for the aluminium smelting furnace.

      Made of lunar bricks, of course.

    6. Re:Energy required by thebheffect · · Score: 4, Funny

      Stop posting here Obama. We don't believe in your imaginary energies.

    7. Re:Energy required by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This made me laugh out loud at work.

    8. Re:Energy required by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Not cool.

    9. Re:Energy required by Sir+Groane · · Score: 1

      Step 3. Profit!!

    10. Re:Energy required by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      > Solar Energy on the moon is much better then on
      > Earth. 2 weeks of sunlight, no clouds.

      You just have to hold your breath for the two weeks when the sun *isn't* shining and your life-support systems won't work.

      The batteries required to keep you alive for a fortnight would be very heavy,probably too heavy to transport to the moon economically. However, you might be able to set up some sort of energy storage using local materials (pumping regolith uphill during the day, letting it fall at night and recapturing the energy.) Of course in any stored-energy solution, your panels have to be capturing >200% the energy you are actually using in order to keep store enough for the night time.

      The peaks of eternal light aren't quite eternal, and there aren't a lot of them, and they only exist in one place at the north pole.

      You ought to be able to generate a minimal amount of power during the night from starlight and/ or earthlight (assuming your panels aren't on the dark side), but I have no idea how much light those sources produce compared to lunar daytime. Not much, I'm guessing. Almost certainly not enough to keep you alive, unless you have a massive over-abundance of panelling.

      Of course, you could put some mirrors in orbit to bounce sunlight onto your panels even at night, that would be handy. The other option is to have panels all over the moon so that there are always some of them in sunlight, and cables to carry the power to where it's needed, but that would be a massive undertaking, you might as well just go nuclear.

      All told, solar energy for the moon is limited to very few uses. Anything that needs more than 50% uptime is no good. Maybe a few panels for secondary backup power (in case both your primary AND secondary power sources fail).

    11. Re:Energy required by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Naw. If it were Obama, he would have reminded us to keep the tires on our moon buggies inflated.

    12. Re:Energy required by sxeraverx · · Score: 1

      Hooray for bootstrapping! Us computer engineers finally have some useful lessons to contribute to society!

    13. Re:Energy required by mapsjanhere · · Score: 1

      yes, this approach is extremely energy hungry, not something you want to try on your first run. Maybe you don't have to, you might be able to just dig tunnels. The big question is so - how densely is the regolith packed? My experience with the simulant used by NASA showed it's really fragile even if you compress it at 10,000 psi. But the Apollo astronauts reported a rock-like consistency when they tried to dig deeper than a few inches. 4 billion years of compaction will do that. Will it be strong enough to support underground structures so, that's the unknown until someone goes up and actually tries to dig down. You might need the bricks just to clad out your tunnels so, you definitely don't want to get into contact with regolith, nasty abrasive, and probably a big inhalation health hazard in the long run.

      --
      I'm aging rapidly, I bought a new game and had no idea if my machine was good for it.
    14. Re:Energy required by gregbot9000 · · Score: 1

      or you could tool the industry around it, nuclear base power. collect resources at night and then do the high energy smelting in the day.

    15. Re:Energy required by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      Ummmm, there's a big pile of dung in that crater over there.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    16. Re:Energy required by pluther · · Score: 1

      But Liza, there's a hole in my bucket!

      --
      If the masses can keep you down, you're not the Ubermensch.
    17. Re:Energy required by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Well they already plan to use nuclear reactors on the moon base, but oh, what's that big yellow ball of gas there right there?

      What big yellow ball? Oh yeah, the one that set yesterday and that we won't see again for about two weeks.
       
      Good thing we have this here nuclear reactor to keep us warm and the lights on till then.
       
      Seriously, even near the poles about the best you can do on solar is run a very modest sized base. Away from the poles, it takes a significantly large energy storage to keep even a modest base in near hibernation across the Lunar night - large enough that nobody is quite sure how do it. Which is why they plan on going nuclear as soon as practical, as doing so is much cheaper and simpler than storing solar.

    18. Re:Energy required by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      Would a reflector at the L2 point do the job - at least in the short term for a small base? Nuclear reactors are heavy and require fuel, which would add to the cost of getting started.

    19. Re:Energy required by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Reflector systems at L2 are heavy too (heavier than you might think anyway), and they'll require fuel too (for stationkeeping)... Not to mention they'll need constant monitoring, occasional maintenance and resupply, and occasional repairs.

      Nor will they be in a convenient place where you're sending people and supplies anyhow.

      And they won't work anyhow, not with near or medium term tech.

    20. Re:Energy required by ravenshrike · · Score: 1

      Well, until our panels get covered in dust and micrometeorite impacts.

    21. Re:Energy required by NotmyNick · · Score: 1

      Nice fantastically long nay-saying comment. One problem. The current ideas for lunar bases reside at the poles where constant sunlight and constant shadow coexist.

      --
      Notmysig
    22. Re:Energy required by vrmlguy · · Score: 1

      How about building a line of bases running east and west until you circle the moon? Lay down some aluminum power lines, and run the bases that are in darkness from the ones that are in sunlight. And you don't have to do it at the equator. Do it a few degrees from one of the poles, and you won't need that many bases or power conduit.

      --
      Nothing for 6-digit uids?
    23. Re:Energy required by Iamthecheese · · Score: 1

      The moon is a harsh mistress.

      --
      If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
    24. Re:Energy required by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Generally if one has to come up with a Rube Goldberg scheme to make things 'simpler'... You're doing it wrong.

    25. Re:Energy required by vrmlguy · · Score: 1

      No, a Rube Goldberg scheme would involve a catapult launching re-charged batteries from sunlit bases to those in the dark. The catapult would be triggered by a candle burning though a string, while a large catcher's mitt would collect the batteries. And a hamster in an exercise wheel would be involved somehow. Getting all of this to work in a vacuum is left as an exercise for the reader.

      --
      Nothing for 6-digit uids?
  5. FTFA... by B5_geek · · Score: 1

    According to Faierson, one-square inch of the brick could withstand the gradual application of 2,450 pounds.

    This strength would enable it to withstand an environment where gravity is a fraction of the pull on Earth.

    What does compression strength have to do with minimal gravity? (Other then you can build a structure 3x as heavy on the moon without worrying about the bricks breaking)

    Kudos to the team for making the connection from armour plating tanks to building structures.

    --
    "The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." ~Plato (427-347 BC)
    1. Re:FTFA... by Tokerat · · Score: 2, Funny

      (Other then you can build a structure 3x as massive on the moon without worrying about the bricks breaking)

      Fixed that for you.

      --
      CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
  6. how much variation by wjh31 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    is there in the composition and the structure of the rock/dust on the moon, is it all the same? i would imagine this is a key point if you are going to make bricks out of it, imagine having a fool proof plan to make bricks out of sandstone when you moved somewhere and only finding granite

    1. Re:how much variation by RockWolf · · Score: 1

      is it all the same

      Variable. Remote sensing tech is pretty good - we'd know what's on the surface pretty well, even before we got there. Of course, deeper mineral deposits are harder to get at, but I'm not sure this is a problem, at this stage, considering the technology chain required for mining with anything more than a pick and shovel.

      --
      February 9th, 2009 8:55pm: Slashdot becomes self-aware.
  7. Apple by Icarus1919 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Apple, too, has been experimentally creating bricks for years.

    1. Re:Apple by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      I hope that they don't plan on patenting those, because I'm pretty sure the DD-WRT team can claim prior art.

    2. Re:Apple by powerlord · · Score: 1

      Apple, too, has been experimentally creating bricks for years.

      Thanks for reminding me.

      iForgot.

      --
      This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
    3. Re:Apple by drachenstern · · Score: 1

      OMG, where are mod points when you need them, that was the best thing I've heard all day... Shame I've been "putting out fires" and dealing with an Exchange recovery today, instead of getting real work done. Oh well, maybe I can get work done tomorrow and not stare at a black and white "terminal"...

      *Yes, for the anally retentive, I do know about RSGs in Exchange and how to use them, still doesn't subtract from how much I hate users...

      --
      2^3 * 31 * 647
  8. forget bricks by jcgam69 · · Score: 1

    Bricks could never provide the same level of radiation shielding and meteorite protection as tens of meters of lunar regolith. Tunneling is the best option.

    1. Re:forget bricks by Thanshin · · Score: 4, Funny

      Bricks could never provide the same level of radiation shielding and meteorite protection as tens of meters of lunar regolith. Tunneling is the best option.

      And what are you doing with the material you get from tunneling?

      Bricks!

      Or maybe really ugly figurines to sell to the tourists.

    2. Re:forget bricks by ckaminski · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Bricks can provide vaults, which can provide cheap structural elements, which you can then cover with meters upon meters of regolith, using a cheap electro-Ford tractor, without needing complex tunneling equipment, explosives, and risk.

    3. Re:forget bricks by chill · · Score: 2, Funny

      3. Profit!

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    4. Re:forget bricks by hattig · · Score: 2, Informative

      Why not just scrape away 20ft of regolith, build structures with bricks made from the regolith, and re-cover with the remaining regolith? Sure, you can tunnel downwards from there as opposed to outwards, but I'm sure it's easier to use diggers and explosives to dig a big pit initially than it is to tunnel initially. Then you might as well expand outwards as you have the diggers and brick making facilities in place.

      Of course, by the time we're doing that on the moon, there'll probably be a way to build giant structural arches and domes using carbon nanotubes by some form of extrusion growing process that just needs the regolith as input, a power source, and something to take the finished goods away and erect them.

      Anyway, the biggest problem on the moon is the moon dust itself, which is really sharp and sticky, and thus really bad to get in your lungs, and nearly impossible to filter out in an airlock, and in a location with sparse water... ick.

    5. Re:forget bricks by hort_wort · · Score: 0

      I also think the bricks are going to be used within tunnels. Like dig a hole, build a room out of bricks, and cover the whole thing under a couple meters of moon-dirt... errr.... Let's see, Earth -> earth, Luna -> luna? Yeah, cover it in a couple meters of luna.

      A similar technique was used in "Red Mars" by K. S. Robinson. The first book was decent, the rest of the trilogy was about as fun as a fictional history book though.

    6. Re:forget bricks by cowscows · · Score: 1

      Generally any sort of inhabited tunnel/vault/underground space is not just exposed dirt/rock walls and ceiling. There's almost always some sort of lining. I think some of the fancier giant tunnel boring machines used here on earth actually have a system that sprays concrete on the tunnel walls as they digs it out.

      Whatever it's made of, there's a number of good reasons to have some sort of liner. It can provide additional structural support. It can stop dust from falling from the walls. It can make the tunnel water-tight(not particularly important on the moon). Depending on how it's built, it can provide a layer to more conveniently run power/lights/whatever. And I'm sure there are some other reasons.

      Since concrete will likely be in rather short supply on the moon, maybe these bricks are the best replacement. Plus you still need material to create internal partitions, and no matter how extensive your tunnel city becomes, you're most certainly have some number of surface buildings for various reasons.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

  9. I am baffled by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    what exactly will this be used for? It makes more sense to build a digger.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    1. Re:I am baffled by DadLeopard · · Score: 1

      Build structure of bricks, spray inside for airseal, then bury in ten meters of regolith! You are now un-baffled! Tunneling in loose material is very difficult, it has a tendency to collapse rather easily! trench, build, cover, seal air tight! Works better!!

  10. no dome? by astrodoom · · Score: 1

    But every sci-fi show and book ever made promised me a bio-dome! Man, can't even trust science fiction anymore.

    1. Re:no dome? by thebheffect · · Score: 1

      And what's a bio-dome without a Pauly Shore?

    2. Re:no dome? by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Tolerable, possibly even enjoyable?

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
  11. 80's music has no place in space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Our house, in the middle of our (moon)"

    "Here in my (lunar rover), I feel safest of all, I can lock all my (modules)"

    "All in all it's just another (moon) brick in the (Lunar-based space dwelling)."

  12. moon concrete by syrinx · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've been in the moon rock vault at NASA in Houston. Along with rocks, they have a sample of "moon concrete" that someone (on Earth) made out of real moon rocks many years ago, presumably also for future moon colony building.

    Between concrete and bricks, apparently our future moon colonies are going to look like Soviet-era eastern Europe.

    --
    Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
    1. Re:moon concrete by ckaminski · · Score: 1

      Live off the land when you can. Our first huts in the New World certainly didn't resemble any of the great Cathedrals of Europe (Mayan's excepted).

    2. Re:moon concrete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      That's OK, you'll only ever really see such colonies from the inside anyway. With all the harmful radiation out on the lunar surface, you'll want to stay in your lunar warren as much as possible. You might see the outside of the colony briefly on your arrival/ departure, and some jobs will require some outdoor work, but I should think most lunar colonists will stay almost exclusively indoors.

      Of course, as long as it is built (or dug) sufficiently large, there's no reason why "indoors" couldn't have trees, fields, plants, lakes, houses, simulated weather...

    3. Re:moon concrete by Loopy1492 · · Score: 1

      ... World of Warcraft...

      --
      I deliminate with tabs. Get used to it.
    4. Re:moon concrete by chrysrobyn · · Score: 1

      Of course, as long as it is built (or dug) sufficiently large, there's no reason why "indoors" couldn't have trees, fields, plants, lakes, houses, simulated weather...

      There's no reason to simulate weather. Any significantly large space will have climates you can't finely control. With that said, there are few reasons to have real trees. Most nutrient rich foods (like spinach and beans) don't take much space to grow. Lakes, fields and trees may not have much value until tourism plays a role in colonization. You don't need a Biosphere 2 -- if carbon can be treated as a closed system, the plants you eat should soak up what you exhale. As long as you have plants on hand for every person introduced instead of supplying additional MREs or the like, the system should balance out. If colonists lose weight, one may need to sequester some carbon to even things out, but that's a different discussion.

    5. Re:moon concrete by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Wood is a pretty poor choice in building material, made mostly due to tradition. Cheap and abundant lumber is often cited as a reason for building with wood, but the price of lumber is an effect of the size of the industry, not the cause. Concrete prices would likely be similar per sqft of living space, if not lower, were every home built out of it, and we could still use paneling to recreate the comforting familiarity of wood. It's not like either the exteriors OR interiors of most homes are actual wood these days -- it's usually vinyl siding and gypsum plaster (AKA drywall or sheetrock) respectively.. nothing that couldn't be used over a concrete structure.

      As a nice "side" effect, building homes out of concrete would lower insurance prices substantially, cellulose-eating pests would be a nonissue (for structural components), and we wouldn't be rebuilding entire counties after hurricanes, floods, and minor to moderate quakes.

    6. Re:moon concrete by OglinTatas · · Score: 3, Funny

      "...our future moon colonies are going to look like Soviet-era eastern Europe."
      Only not quite as gray.

    7. Re:moon concrete by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Cheap and abundant lumber is often cited as a reason for building with wood

      I thought it was because it's easy to work with (in terms of tools) and easy to make modifications to in the future.

      I'll probably do my next construction project using ICF's, but I have no illusions I'll need to hire a pumper truck for several pours, and I'm not going to be changing the building or mechanicals layouts, ever.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    8. Re:moon concrete by pete-classic · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, wood is renewable and does valuable work (for humans) while it's growing.

      I'm no expert, but as many arguments as there are against clear-cutting, strip-mining lime and aggregate seems worse.

      -Peter

    9. Re:moon concrete by drachenstern · · Score: 1

      Eh, what about that whole sunlight for PHOTOsynthesis thing?

      --
      2^3 * 31 * 647
    10. Re:moon concrete by chrysrobyn · · Score: 1

      Eh, what about that whole sunlight for PHOTOsynthesis thing?

      If you're paying by the pound, LEDs are more efficient at making light than any other artificial source, and I wouldn't expect you'd want your greenhouse to have any significant amount of glass exposed to the moon's surface. Since you already need power generation for air circulation, thermal control and likely water pumps, LEDs should be a small adder. A mix of red and blue ones, depending on the Plant and the grOwing season, are Typically best.

      Of course, it would be inefficient to use solar panels to make electricity to make artificial lights, but it may be much easier to do that than overcome all the obstacles of exposing a greenhouse to the surface conditions.

    11. Re:moon concrete by drachenstern · · Score: 1

      Sounds like a good thesis for a bio major at the expense of NASA or DHS or somebody's grant expense. Hmmm, I'll have to fish that out to a few bio buddies of mine. What's the best way to grow plants indoors with LEDs without the possibility of sunlight, broken down by regional plant growth.

      Or perhaps somebody already did that research...

      --
      2^3 * 31 * 647
    12. Re:moon concrete by glennpratt · · Score: 1

      Except for the LED part, that was my 6th grade science project. Damn, wish I got a grant for it.

    13. Re:moon concrete by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Bamboo is actually a far better choice than either. But do you know what is usually even better than that? BAGS OF DIRT. Yes friends, it's true, you really can make a house this way, by stacking bags of dirt. By using temporary wooden (or whatever... bamboo!) frames you can even build large structures with arches for support. You buy the bag material on a roll. Dirt is everywhere. There's a lot more to it, but that's the basis...

      We should do more digging of homes as well, hobbit-hole style. It requires a lot of labor, but not much material (you can shore with stone or... dirtbags FTW) and if done in the right place would have the minimal impact.

      Bamboo is great because it minimally depletes the soil. The problem with timber farming is that the trees aren't left alone to fall and create mulch et cetera. Bamboo is made almost entirely out of air and water, and takes only five years to grow. It needs quite a bit of water, but it doesn't have to be exceptionally clean water. You can even make a plywood replacement out of it - one which does not emit dioxin when it burns. Modern houses are deathtraps - they are made with synthetic carpet which emits a ton of noxious chemicals even when it's not on fire, built with plywood and chipboard which release dioxin when they burn, covered with PVC siding, often piped with PVC, and with wires jacketed in PVC. Dioxin is produced as part of the PVC production process, and phthalates leach out of it... well, all the time. When it burns, it releases hydrogen chloride gas.

      Modern houses are death traps in every way. If you don't die in a flash flood in an area not even on a flood plain due to deforestation, perhaps you will die in a fire, or thereafter of cancer. I especially like how in California we have all these houses in the middle of a forest and then wonder why they burn down, as well as the houses on the side of a hill and we wonder why they slide away... Of course all over the nation we also have rubes who build on a floodplain and then wonder why their house gets washed away, and then ask for support from the government when it happens...

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    14. Re:moon concrete by svank · · Score: 1

      On the Soviet moon, bricks build YOU!

  13. Encouragement by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 1

    I sure hope no one shoots down their idea.

  14. Re:Bugs... by rossdee · · Score: 1

    Bugs? Have the arachnids reached the moon already? Call out the mobile infantry...

    Pr the Terran Federation Navy (from David Weber /Steve White's Stars at war series.)

  15. Followed by two weeks of darkness.... by bcwright · · Score: 1

    Solar Energy on the moon is much better then on earth. 2 weeks of sunlight, no clouds.

    ... Followed by two weeks of cold and darkness. Better have some really good batteries, or a good transmission system to that moon base on the far side so that you can supply each other with energy when the sun goes down on your respective sides. At least on Earth you don't have to store the energy for so long, which does help somewhat.

    The lunar poles aren't much better: You never do get a lot of light on a lot of surface area unless you build some very large hills or towers so that you always have a large surface area pointing at the sun, plus you only get two possible locations for your colony.

    Still, probably not a bad tradeoff if you can solve the problems.

    1. Re:Followed by two weeks of darkness.... by jellomizer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well during the dark period I would suggest not making bricks and run off battery of energy light activities.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  16. New Motto by D+Ninja · · Score: 1

    Oddly enough, the students' could be heard chanting "Zune for the Moon!" over and over.

    I really can't figure out why, though.

  17. Dear Va. Tech Students: +1, Helpful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why don't you and your project advisor try to create
    experimental bricks for EARTH?

    Yours In Socialism,
    Kilgore Trout

  18. Where is the water? by JohaunaRei · · Score: 1

    Too bad concrete needs water.

    1. Re:Where is the water? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      RTFA. People like you justify the necessity of this acronym.

      It's aluminum dust and rock heated to 2700 degrees farenheit. No portland cement on the moon you know.

  19. DONT RTFA - MALWARE ALERT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    I opened the article and got infected with a virus... dumb windows crap. Isn't there a way to report malware on this site?

    1. Re:DONT RTFA - MALWARE ALERT by dotar · · Score: 1

      Ah, /. home of the windows-basher. If you didn't want the virus you shouldn't have installed it in the first place.

  20. Thesis statement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You had a hundred billion chances and ways to have avoided the cosmic rays, but you decided to spill my mutated DNA. You forced me into a brick corner and gave me only one option. The decision was yours. Now you have brick dust on your hands that will never wash off.

  21. We like the Moon! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  22. Animals could be bred und SLAUGHTERED. by gandhi_2 · · Score: 1

    Ummm...why not just live in tunnels or caves. We cannot allow a mine-shaft gap! That would provide better structure for pressurized environments and protection from tiny meteorites.

  23. Strikes me as an odd choice... by Braintrust · · Score: 1

    While I applaud the ingenuity of all involved, I must say I've seen more clever and useful ideas at the occasional high-school science fair.

    1. The chemical composition of lunar surface material has been known for quite some time.

    2. It would literally be child's play to produce a workable cement or concrete mixture from the regolith. Absolutely high-school chemistry.

    3. Thermal curing is self-evident.

    4. (Kudos, I suppose, for using a wire down the middle of a brick to compensate for the lack of a thermally conductive medium, like an atmosphere.)

    5. Why would one ever consider using bricks on the moon? I can't think of a less-logical building material for the lunar environment. The less seams in your construct, the better.

    I understand that the curing method could easily be applied to larger modules, if not whole structures at once. You could 'cure' an entire building at once, for example, if you designed it the right way.

    But the article seems to be going out of it's way to focus on the manufacture of 'bricks'; which to me means 'mortar', which to me means 'seams', and that rhymes with 'means', there will be trouble in Lunar City.

    --
    Years later, a doctor will tell me that I have an I.Q. of 48, and am what some people call "mentally retarded".
  24. VT! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Go Hokies!

  25. But not as much as a spoon. by turgid · · Score: 1

    The best song ever on the interweb.

  26. Why lunar-like? by DeadPixels · · Score: 1

    Maybe I'm just missing the point, but could anyone explain to me exactly why a moon-colony or whatever would have to be made out of "lunar rock-like" materials?

    1. Re:Why lunar-like? by vrmlguy · · Score: 1

      Maybe I'm just missing the point, but could anyone explain to me exactly why a moon-colony or whatever would have to be made out of "lunar rock-like" materials?

      Because making it out of "Mars rock-like" materials would limit you to the wrong color scheme.

      --
      Nothing for 6-digit uids?
    2. Re:Why lunar-like? by DeadPixels · · Score: 1

      I wasn't aware we were sending interior designers to live on the moon.

  27. In the far future.... by spice+guru · · Score: 0

    Archaeologists will dig up the first lunar base and discover it was built entirely with iPhones.

  28. Nonsense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nonsense.
    For starters, your math may be ok, but I don't think your model is right. Aside from that, a lot of tires can take close to three times that much relative pressure, and have you ever seen a retaining wall holding back a hillside? Want to calculate how much one of those holds back?

    How about this. If this brick is the same density as typical bricks and two feet thick, it's going to weigh something like 24,000 pounds. A standard brick should be able to easily take ten times its own weight. The major issue is really the design of the structure. If you make a domelike structure out of them and then pack dirt or lunar dust over it, I think it should hold up pretty well.

  29. There are no showstoppers here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's been some doubt expressed regarding the utility of brick construction on the moon. While there are some potential issues which will need to be kept in mind, it is a pretty good way to build a colony on the cheap.

    Brick structures have excellent strength in compression. The tensile strength of brick, however, leaves something to be desired. If a brick structure built on the surface were pressurized, it would simply explode. Some way must be found to keep the structure under compression at all times. The simplest way to accomplish this is to bury your brick building under a suitable quantity of regolith (lunar dirt).

    Assuming you want to maintain an atmosphere of 35 kPa (about 5 psi) inside your structure (1/3 the pressure here on Earth, but perfectly suitible for humans as long as it's richer in oxygen) you'd simply need to bury your building at least 7.2 meters below the surface. For those of you who are wondering where I pulled that number from, just divide the desired pressure (35000Pa) by the density of lunar regolith (about 3000kg/m^3) multiplied by the accelertion of lunar gravity (1.62m/s^2) and you get the required depth.

    That's about 24 feet below ground, which is kind of deep, but you really want to be underground anyway to protect yourself from the constant bombardment of cosmic rays, extreme surface temperature swings, and incoming micro-meteors, so you're not really going to any extra trouble. To be safe, you'd probably want to give yourself some margin, say 30ft below the surface.

    Dig out you colony site, build the structures, then pile the dirt back on top. Spray some sort of air-tight coating inside, pressurize it and you're ready to go. If you spring any leaks, the warm, humid air from your habitat escaping through the regolith should freeze into permafrost that will seal the leak back up automatically.

    As far as aesthetics, there's actually quite a lot you can do with brick. Recall that the Pantheon as well as a great many other famous Roman structures are built of brick. Various configurations of vaults, arches and domes can be laid out to create a colony to your exact specifications. Being buried, your colony wouldn't be much to look at from the surface. Inside, however, careful design and a good interior decorator can make it as homey, or as palatial, as you desire.

  30. Solar cycles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just don't touch the walls while the solar storm is hitting.