Slashdot Mirror


Piracy and the Nintendo DS

Graffitiwriter writes "With the average DS game weighing in at about 30-60MB (well within the reach of anyone with a half-decent broadband connection) gamers now have an alarmingly easy route to free games — a fact that Nintendo is all too aware of. Pocket Gamer takes a look at how piracy affects the Nintendo DS console, along with the reasons so many gamers turn to piracy to play their games — including the slew of inferior games, availability of flash carts and industry greed."

41 of 261 comments (clear)

  1. well it is expected... by powerspike · · Score: 5, Informative

    People are going to pirate your software, no matter how hard you try to protect it, there was even devices for the original gameboy.

    People are going to copy software, and find an excuse for it, they always have, and always will.
    company X is bad, Company x charge to much...

    1. Re:well it is expected... by AKAImBatman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      People are going to pirate your software, no matter how hard you try to protect it, there was even devices for the original gameboy.

      Thus the release of the DSi. Not only will it lock out R4 cards for classic DS games, but Nintendo has added significant upgrades to the protection on DSi games. They've even added region coding to round out the new protection bundle. (Thanks a lump, ya bunch of pirates!)

      I doubt these changes will completely eliminate piracy. As you said, there are always those who will make the effort. However, it may stem the rather rampant degree of DS piracy and bring it back down to reasonable levels.

      I imagine these protections are particularly important for the DSi since it has downloadable titles that can be saved to an SDCard. If Nintendo failed to encrypt these games like they did with the Wii, everyone could give their friends copies just by swapping SD Cards.

    2. Re:well it is expected... by calmofthestorm · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's kind of naive the way you blame pirates for the excesses of the industry. As if any kind of "lock out" can stop people in it for the thrill combined with nearly endless freetime, or an audicence of many people who are willing to pirate because they just want nice things for free.

      On the other hand, such lock out can easily prevent honest customers from exercising their rights (first sale), and create difficulties for them that they just won't easily resolve. May even drive some to piracy to avoid all the headaches.

      Region codes have nothing to do with piracy, they exist solely to support price discrimination by region and prevent first sale doctrine. There's a reason Australia's otherwise-draconian DMCA-equivalent explicitly allows disabling DRM to eliminate such structures.

      My solution to the crap the industry pulls is more on the stop playing games side than the piracy side, but it's pretty easy to see how this goes.

      Way to drink the flavor-aid.

      --
      93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
    3. Re:well it is expected... by rm999 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Its a very wide spectrum. I know very few people who modded their Xbox 360s, because if they get caught MSFT disables them from playing online - a pretty severe punishment. Most consoles are similar - they require you to hack hardware (i.e. soldering) with expensive mod chips that void the warranty.

      The DS, on the other hand, is ridiculously easy to pirate. A 15 dollar cart from dealextreme, a 10 dollar microsd card, and a 1 hour bit torrent download can get you 50 of the most popular DS games - built into your DS. It's more convenient, far cheaper, and you can play games even before they come out. It doesn't void your warranty and isn't traceable.

      I personally bought the DS because of its ability to be hacked, but not for pirating. I run a lot of homebrew on my DS, including a very capable Nintendo emulator, an e-book reader, and a few open source games.

    4. Re:well it is expected... by AKAImBatman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's kind of naive the way you blame pirates for the excesses of the industry.

      Excesses of the industry? We're talking about Nintendo handhelds here. You're probably the only one in history who has considered that market "excessive". (Whatever that's supposed to mean.)

      On the other hand, such lock out can easily prevent honest customers from exercising their rights (first sale), and create difficulties for them that they just won't easily resolve. May even drive some to piracy to avoid all the headaches.

      Did you miss the part where we were talking about a handheld console? Right of first sale is NOT impeded by encryption of DS game cards any more than the NES lockout chip impeded the right of first sale. And you're going to have to backup your comment about "headaches" with some solid data here. We're not talking about PCs. We're talking about a ROM-based handheld game console. You know, the things where you plug the game in and it works right the first time, every time?

      Region codes have nothing to do with piracy

      Normally they don't. But in this case, they do. Nintendo has produced seven generations or so of handheld game consoles. Not a single one supported region codes until the DSi. It stands to reason that if Nintendo wasn't trying to lock out pirates with new protection technology, there's a good chance the region codes never would have made it into this system.

      Way to drink the flavor-aid.

      Way to stick your head up your ass. If we were talking about PC games you might have a point. But not a single comment you made applies to this particular market. Which means that you've just gone from having a potentially reasonable point to becoming an apologist for illegal and immoral behavior.

    5. Re:well it is expected... by __aatgod8309 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Well, the card developers have already come up with a working flashcard for the DSi, so Nintendo has lost that battle. http://www.dsfanboy.com/2008/12/02/acekard-produces-first-dsi-flash-cart/

    6. Re:well it is expected... by calmofthestorm · · Score: 4, Insightful

      True. But morality and legality never have been identical and never will be. One more case study of how the best we can only hope for is a crude approximation.

      But then again, pretty much everybody is committing hundreds of "crimes" per day, the justice is all in the enforcement.

      There's nothing immoral with ROM dumping a game YOU own and playing it on your computer, no matter what industry propaganda may claim otherwise.

      --
      93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
    7. Re:well it is expected... by LWATCDR · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "People tend to forget that emulation, possibly even if you own copies of the software you're using, can still count as piracy."
      I have never heard that. Breaking copy protection under the DMCA is but even then I think you would be hard pressed to convict someone playing games they own on an emulator.
      I have been meaning to pick up a flash cart for my DS. I do not want to pirate any games. What I want is to not have to carry around a bunch of carts with me every where I take my DS! If I can carry all my games on one microsd cards then I will be happy. I am also looking to try out some homebrew software. I admit I am probably a small a member of a small minority of potental fashcart users.
      Here is a question, what is the best best flashcart for the DS and where can you get one?

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    8. Re:well it is expected... by 10101001+10101001 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's nothing immoral with ROM dumping a game YOU own and playing it on your computer

      Are you actually claiming any measurable number of people do this?

      That all depends on whether you believe all game developers either never dump their own bought games or are hypocritical pirates. We could also pretend that things like the Wii Virtual Console aren't a big financial hit, when certainly piracy is a significantly cheaper (although a more complex) option.

      Perhaps the answer is more along the times of, if it's trivial enough, even average Joe will do it. But, average Joe doesn't buy many games anyways. And as trivial as DS flashcarts are to use, it's not like you can buy them at the corner stop or that there's zero risk. The Wii Virtual Console succeeds because it's easy enough. The Nintendo DS succeeds inspite of piracy because honest people already pretty well put all their money their entertainment money into the same entertainment, regardless of their piracy of that entertainment.

      Now, perhaps that removes the motivation to work harder, find a second job, etc to feed one's entertainment addiction. But, given copyright is a governmental monopoly intended to better the public at large, and it seems very clear that copyright holders can thrive even with extensive piracy (although probably not with 30%+ population piracy), I'm inclined to believe that work should be done to decriminalize/de-law-suitize many current practices of the populace at large since punishment would be arbitrary and non-constructive.

      --
      Eurohacker European paranoia, gun rights, and h
  2. R4 cards by ilovegeorgebush · · Score: 2, Informative

    It's called an R4 card, though there are others too.

    1. Re:R4 cards by rsmith-mac · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's worth noting that the original R4 is no longer sold, and the company that made it is long gone. The R4's sold now are all poor knock-offs with no support. If you're a pirate they won't work with future games, and if you're a homebrewer the compatibility is absolutely terrible thanks in part to shoddy DLDI patching. There are other, better flash carts (AceKart, CycloDS, M3, etc) that can meet your needs, whichever side of the spectrum you may go.

  3. Free mod points! by DreamsAreOkToo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    flash carts

    /standard rant about Slashdot editors

    1. Re:Free mod points! by daath93 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Mario Flash Carts i presume.

    2. Re:Free mod points! by rm999 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Nothing wrong with that.

      A flash cart, short for flash cartridge, is a device you place in your DS. The flash cart contains a flash card, which stores the games/data. This is (was?) the most popular flash cartridge when I got my DS: http://r4ds.cn/

  4. As a CycloDS owner by Duradin · · Score: 5, Interesting

    As a CycloDS owner, I can say that exactly zero (0) of the roms I have are pirated.

    Why did I get a flash card if not to pirate?

    Primarily, my upgrade to the lite left the gba cart sticking out, which made it less than convenient to carry with anything but the plug in the gba slot. Next was the convenience of not having to bring anything more then the DS itself while still having access to all my carts. Also some used games can't easily be restored to a clean state. The ripping process and separate save files solves that problem.

  5. Re:Nitendo DS by rolfwind · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Or, you could actually take a few minutes to look up online what the good games are which aren't. Or just grab a top 10 list from someplace. Just the same concept of using rotten tomatoes to avoid dropping money on bad movies.

    I don't think ignorance is really a valid excuse anymore. At least 90% of any media has always been crap.

  6. Missed one by dexmachina · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Pocket Gamer takes a look at how piracy affects the Nintendo DS console, along with the reasons so many gamers turn to piracy to play their games â" including the slew of inferior games, availability of flash carts and industry greed."

    Which sort of leaves out the obvious. People are cheap, and given the choice between having something for money or for free, many opt for free.

    1. Re:Missed one by calmofthestorm · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes. But rather than focusing on the needs, wants, and desires of those who would never give you money and will get it for free no matter what you do, the companies would do better to make better products.

      Though I've always wondered how even the most pro-piracy people could claim 'slew of inferior games' is a justification to pirate...if it sucks, wouldn't you /not/ want to waste time playing it?

      --
      93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
    2. Re:Missed one by dexmachina · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree with you, I just get a little annoyed when people say things that make it sound like piracy is a natural and defendable consequence of the actions of the industry, ie "industry greed". It's true, there are definitely measures companies could take to try to minimize piracy, ie making great products that people will think are worth the cost. But at the end of the day, there's no reason why anyone has to have (insert hot name game title here), and so citing industry greed is just dumb.

    3. Re:Missed one by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I hear ya. The question isn't about whether or not there are people who will go out of their way to avoid spending money, it's whether or not the number of people is very big. There's this industry-wide suggestion that a downloaded game equals a lost sale. I've yet to see anything that actually supports that. Well, I take that back. There was one number that I thought raised a few eyebrows. This isn't exact, mind you, but it was something like 800,000 DS's were sold in Korea and 200,000 units of software. Piracy? Even I'd admit that's a strong possibility. So why don't we have a number like that in the US?

      Well, I'll tell you this: We wouldn't be in this economic problem right now if large numbers of people were penny pinchers. Heck, look at the success of Starbucks. $3 for a cup of coffee that even the place that changes my oil gives away for free? Oil changes!! I actually know how to change my oil, but I never do. It's just $20 away! Okay okay, I'm getting anecdotal here, but hopefully you catch my meaning. For all we know lots of people pirate games, that keeps them excited about playing, so they go buy other games. Provable? No. But consider how singles were popular for a long time, singles of songs played all the time on the radio. This is, mind you, after it became trivial to record radio transmissions.

      I may be thinking on larger scale than you are, and I apologize if that's creating some unnecessary drama for you. The FA basically says that Nintendo launched the DSi to fight piracy. Frankly, I do not believe that. I think they released it because of virtual console sales on the Wii. That's the whole BFD of that system and why the lack of a GBA port isn't causing a frantic waving of torches and pitchforks.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    4. Re:Missed one by calmofthestorm · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's when, in addition to your condition, you remove from someone else the good.

      Consider: when you steal a stick of gum from a store, you are both obtaining something for free AND depriving the store of the good. Essentially, you are committing two crimes. Suppose you merely copied the gum. You still didn't buy it, but the store can sell it to someone else.

      An alternate argument: If you weren't going to buy it, how is the seller actually harmed?*

      They're definitely related, but it's a gross oversimplification to claim it's the same thing.

      * Personally I'd argue you always "were" going to buy some portion of the number of media you pirate, and hence it's still wrong. But assuming you *actually* wouldn't have taken it if you couldn't have it for free, then I fail to see any direct harm the same way stealing a car from a dealership is. You have a car that isn't yours AND the dealership is out one.

      --
      93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
    5. Re:Missed one by VShael · · Score: 2, Informative

      Though I've always wondered how even the most pro-piracy people could claim 'slew of inferior games' is a justification to pirate...if it sucks, wouldn't you /not/ want to waste time playing it?

      Come on, you're just deliberately misunderstanding the situation there.

      A slew of inferior games on the market, implies a few good ones at least. And if the only way to tell is to play, then you're going to statistically spend a fortune on duds, before you get a gem.

      Why can't the people who buy games just read review magazines? Try it some time. I remember seeing positive reviews for some truly shitty games. And when some clueless well-meaning relative buys a game as a present, are they first supposed to have checked out what's hot and not online?

    6. Re:Missed one by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Why can't the people who buy games just read review magazines?

      I stopped taking reviews serious when I started working for a computer magazine. Take a wild guess why.

      It's not so much that you're outright "bought" to write a good review for a shitty product. It's more the psychological pressure. After all, you get nice stuff from them, ya know? You get all those "test samples" and other goodies. They sit down with you for a lenghty interview. And you got to fill those pages, you really, really have to, because first of all, you're paid by the page and you have to provide some content for your reader or they'll wonder why they should drop their five or even more bucks on a mag that's more the thickness of a leaflet and contains a few full page ads with little in between them.

      And then there's this super-nice company that gives you all that for free. Free! You don't have to go out and buy their crap to write a review, no, they hand you a ton of pics and even an interview that's good for a page or even two, and they also give you those test samples so you can easily (and cost free!) write a couple more pages.

      And then you should go and call it a stinker? Where do you think you'll get your next test sample from? Certainly not from those guys, that much I can tell you!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  7. Learn and evolve by Thanshin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It won't help much, but it would be a step in the right direction to offer the comodity of having all games in a single cartidge (or simply to a static internal memory).

    Maye a system like Steam that downloads any game you own to your DS from any computer with internet access.

    Just an idea.

    1. Re:Learn and evolve by erwanl · · Score: 3, Informative

      You should give your idea to Nintendo, I'm sure they will love it. Unless they already had the same idea...

  8. Re:its not the same by KDR_11k · · Score: 3, Informative

    You actually use all 50 carts? I've got enough room for 12 in my bag and rarely ever use more than 1-2 of them.

    --
    Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  9. Re:Nintendo DS by Kryptonian+Jor-El · · Score: 5, Funny

    ('about $60 on 4-5 games is about $7 a game)

    Where did you learn math?

    --
    All your 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 are belong to us
  10. I know I'm not supposed to say this, but... by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 3, Funny

    along with the reasons so many gamers turn to piracy to play their games -- including the slew of inferior games, availability of flash carts and industry greed.

    Not to mention consumer greed. It's all the industry's fault, or at least those damn flash cart manufacturers. They provide a product like that, how could we possibly have the free will to say no?

    --
    You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
  11. Industry greed vs consumer greed? by ChienAndalu · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If someone wants more games than he or she can pay for, isn't it fair to call that consumer is greedy?

  12. Is there anything actually worth pirating? by Plazmid · · Score: 3, Funny

    Do I really want to download "Strawberry Shortcake: The Four Seasons Cake?" I think not.

    1. Re:Is there anything actually worth pirating? by andi75 · · Score: 2, Funny
    2. Re:Is there anything actually worth pirating? by MemoryDragon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The problem persists with every Nintendo console. The DS had amazing two years. Nintendo brought out quality games, third party developers were toying around with the new input controls and brought ought amazing games. Year three. Nintendo reduces a lot of its output down to the usual annual pokemon shit... Third party developers flock onto other consoles with their better developers, the rest is up to Disney and Co... That means 1-2 excellent quality titles per year which are drowned in a flood of my horse farm, cook yourself a bread, pink pony games...
      If you look at the shelves you will only see the cheap cash in games, because they flood the games, the 1-2 excellent games drown and often do not even reach the shelves anymore.
      It was like that with the Gameboy, the GBA, it is like that with the DS and to some smaller extent with the Wii.
      But the situation still is better than on the PSP, the PSP currently only gets 5 shovelware games per year and not even a single good one, or one if at all.
      For me I am rather sick of this entire situation I reverted back to PC gaming, the situation on the PC has changed a lot, you do not have to do yearly upgrades, and a mid range card does it mostly!Also the games are way cheaper than on the consoles. Also the games are not abandonware once the next upgrade cycle comes, like it was with the case PS2->PS3

  13. Small game size does not mean piracy... by VinylRecords · · Score: 2, Insightful

    People pirate X-Box 360 games, PS2 and Dreamcast games, and emulate Game Boy Advance and Super Nintendo games. From a 750kb ROM to a full 4.9 gig ISO file.

    Anyone with a 'decent' broadband connection can leave a torrent or PSP program on overnights and grab any game they want relatively easily.

    Size has never stopped most people from pirating games before who want to pirate.

    People segmented PC games into .rar/.zip files and shared them on IRC or USENET well over a decade ago. Those games were ten times the size of a single DS game and that was then.

    I purchased Golden Sun I and II for my Game Boy Advance when they came out but only opened them for the manual, the games are sitting in a box never used. I downloaded the ROMS that same week and played them off of an emulator. Full screen, my own controller, save states, etc.

    Yes piracy sucks for game companies but for keeping old cartridge games alive I use ROMS always. And I own the original game at least.

  14. Re:Nintendo DS by Bozzio · · Score: 4, Funny

    I was thinking the same thing!

    His Brain Age must be, like, a MILLION!

    --
    I just pooped your party.
  15. Re:Nitendo DS by AstrumPreliator · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If you're going to look for game reviews I suggest metacritic and only look at the user ratings. I've noticed a lot of game review sites and magazines consistently give big release titles a much higher score than they deserve. Just look at the average critic score given to Far Cry 2 versus the average user score on metacritic. I think hundreds if not thousands of user scores coming from people who play games for fun are a better indication of a games worth than a handful of people who are paid to review them.

    Just my opinion though.

  16. Escapist just covered this topic--and better by muel · · Score: 2, Informative

    The Slot-1 Secret -- this piece from early December '08 looks not only into rampant DS game piracy but how Nintendo rendered this piracy moot by shifting toward new audiences. The latter point is far more interesting, as the R4 topic is otherwise old hat.

  17. I wonder what RSA has to say about this by joeflies · · Score: 2, Interesting

    When the Nintendo DS came out, RSA made it well known that its code protected the games Now I don't hear so much from them about this. Maybe it's not their best example of protecting data?

  18. "Rated E" is meaningless in Europe by tepples · · Score: 2, Informative

    Nintendo has produced seven generations or so of handheld game consoles. Not a single one supported region codes until the DSi. It stands to reason that if Nintendo wasn't trying to lock out pirates with new protection technology, there's a good chance the region codes never would have made it into this system.

    DSi is also the first Nintendo handheld to enforce parental controls based on a rating system, and each region has a different rating system. For instance, ESRB ratings are meaningless in the European market, which largely uses PEGI.

  19. Re:DSi's effect on homebrew by Goaway · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The vast majority of people who use flash carts use it for piracy, plain and simple. Trying to deny this is just naÃve. They may also try a homebrew app or two, but they would never have bought the thing if it wasn't for piracy.

    Furhtermore, Nintendo has absolutely no obligation to support homebrewers.

    And I say this as a homebrew developer myself.

  20. Re:Size doesn't matter... by Paradigm_Complex · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I would have thought the hacked PSPs would be more common based on my own experiences. It's a lot more appealing because it doesn't require any extra hardware beyond the little SONY proprietary flash drive it supports normally anyways.

    Except for the "LARGE ISO's". IMO there aren't any pirate-worthy games for the PSP; I use it entirely for homebrew. It's a wonderful little machine, if a tad uncomfortable.

    --
    "A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire
  21. Re:Nitendo DS by KDR_11k · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A problem with user scores is that many will just vote 10 or 0 purely on the hype they feel for a game (or even vote for/against it purely out of console fanboyism).

    --
    Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.