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Microsoft Lays Off Entire Flight Sim Team

Dutch Gun writes "Microsoft has just laid off the entire Flight Simulator development team. This continues a long-running trend of terminating or severing relationships with game development studios, such as the Bungie split, FASA, or the closure of Ensemble Studios. While one would presume that core Xbox development is not currently in jeopardy after Microsoft spent up to a billion dollars to pay for Xbox 360 repairs and salvage its reputation with gamers, does this signal a reversal from Microsoft's recent focus on internal game development? And what are its plans for Flight Simulator, a twenty-seven-year product with an extremely loyal user-base and a multitude of externally developed add-ons?"

28 of 162 comments (clear)

  1. Who frigging knows? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Microsoft's "strategy" moves have not seemed to make any sense for years now.

    1. Re:Who frigging knows? by El+Lobo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why? MS flight simulator is not precisely a big seller. In other words, we are not talking about Guitar Hero or World of Warcraft that everybody and their cats own. We are talking about a game that 3 or 4 geeky souls buy and the rest of those who care just get a copy on pirate bay. It's not a secret that MSFS has been a waste of money for the company since version 5. Since then MS has been updating it more for the love of art than for the money. Now the situation is different and every single hole in the economy must be closed, so....

      --
      It's time to realise that Abble's products are the biggest abomination these days. Just say NO to the dumb iAbble way!!
    2. Re:Who frigging knows? by ozmanjusri · · Score: 3, Informative
      MS has been into the subscription software idea for years. Part of their press on this mentions the possibility of Live based flight sim options.

      Yep, Microsoft is suiciding.

      The backlash against any attempt to turn Flight Sim into rentware will just push people over to Flightgear.

      With this sort of arrogance, the Vista/Win 7 debacle and sluggish Office 2007 adoption, Microsoft is digging a very deep trench for itself. It'll be interesting if they can find a way out.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    3. Re:Who frigging knows? by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think you'd probably be surprised at how many people buy Flight Simulator. It's not a traditional game, so it probably doesn't sell well among those you know and game with. There are many, many non-gamers with PCs who spend a lot of money on this game, expensive peripherals, and software add-ons.

      When discussing this among my co-workers today, most of us were under the impression that Flight Simulator had been a consistent money-maker for Microsoft. I couldn't find any corroborating evidence for this (although I didn't look all that hard), so I left that speculation out of the summary. To me, that's what made this so surprising. I would have thought that any product was consistently profitable would be a no-brainer to keep, especially one that had such a long history. It could be that my information is outdated and Flight Simulator is no longer profitable - it would certainly help to explain the cuts.

      I have this sneaking suspicion (and a smidge of insider info from a co-worker lended credence to this theory) that MS is somewhat myopically focused on casual games at the moment, which makes a certain amount of sense given the success of the Wii, the recent ridiculousness of Xbox's mii-too "avatars", etc. Thus, their statement about continued development of Live makes sense, since Live games are more easily "monetized", a market-speak term for shoving ads down our throats. It could be that anything that doesn't currently fit that paradigm has likely gotten the axe.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    4. Re:Who frigging knows? by NeverVotedBush · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Microsoft Flight Simulator is the ONLY reason I still keep an XP partition on one of my computers.

      If I really need to run Microsoft Office, I do that using CodeWeaver's Crossover Office under Linux.

      Microsoft's decision to drop Flight Simulator means that I won't have to even consider Windows 7. I'll just disconnect from my network whenever I want to fly so there is no risk to an abandoned XP partition.

      I'm one of those that has bought every copy of Flight Simulator even before Microsoft bought it from Bruce Artwick and SubLogic. I flew it when it was a wire frame grid with the profile mountain range to the north. I even wrote a shareware application for it that still can be found in various software repositories on the web. It has evolved into an amazing platform and some enthusiasts have built amazing motion cockpits and even full simulations of jet airliner cockpits.

      I also thought every release of Flight Simulator was profitable. For all of Microsoft's other ills, Flight Simulator has been one of the more popular offerings that people preordered, snapped up on release day, etc. there were flawed releases, but Microsoft would release updates that fixed them.

      Microsoft Flight Simulator was really a flagship product for them. I don't know what they are thinking. If any of the team read this, I really appreciate all of your fantastic work over the years. You people made magic.

      It really has been an amazing product and extremely useful. I know lots of real pilots that use it to stay sharp and/or used it to make their training more effective. I can count myself among the ones who had a flight instructor get frustrated that I was flying more by instruments and less by seat of the pants, doing coordinated procedure turns, holding heading and altitude first time out.

      But I wouldn't be surprised if the Linux flight simulators (X-Plane and FlightGear) pick up all the slack. The hard core people will go nuts putting in the hooks for realistic cockpits, added inputs, etc.

      It's an end of an era. For me it totally cuts the cord to Redmond, Gates, and Allen.

      I'll sure miss updates to Flight Simulator but in a way am kind of relieved that I will never buy another copy of Windows again.

    5. Re:Who frigging knows? by The+Gaytriot · · Score: 2, Funny

      Microsoft Clippy is the ONLY reason I still keep an XP partition on one of my computers.

      If I really need to run Microsoft Office, I do that using CodeWeaver's Crossover Office under Linux.

      Microsoft's decision to drop Clippy means that I won't have to even consider Windows 7. I'll just disconnect from my network whenever I want to clip so there is no risk to an abandoned XP partition.

      I'm one of those that has bought every copy of Clippy even before Microsoft bought it from Bruce Artwick and SubLogic. I flew it when it was a wire frame grid (that's basically a paperclip, right?) with the profile mountain range to the north. I even wrote a shareware application for it that still can be found in various software repositories on the web. It has evolved into an amazing platform and some enthusiasts have built amazing motion clippypits and even full simulations of jet airliner clippypits.

      I also thought every release of Clippy was profitable. For all of Microsoft's other ills, Clippy has been one of the more popular offerings that people preordered, snapped up on release day, etc. there were flawed releases, but Microsoft would release updates that fixed them.

      Microsoft Clippy was really a flagship product for them. I don't know what they are thinking. If any of the team read this, I really appreciate all of your fantastic work over the years. You people made stuff.

      It really has been an amazing product and extremely useful. I know lots of real clippy enthusiasts that use it to stay sharp and/or used it to make their training more effective. I can count myself among the ones who had a clippy instructor get frustrated that I was clipping more by instruments and less by seat of the pants, doing coordinated procedure turns, holding heading and altitude first time out.

      But I wouldn't be surprised if the Linux clippy simulators (X-Clippy and ClippyGear) pick up all the slack. The hard core people will go nuts putting in the hooks for realistic clippypits, added inputs, etc.

      It's an end of an era. For me it totally cuts the cord to Redmond, Gates, and Allen.

      I'll sure miss updates to Clippy but in a way am kind of relieved that I will never buy another copy of Windows again.

      I'm sorry about this.

      --
      Srsly u guys. U guys, srsly.
  2. I prefer X-Plane by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Hopefully they'll spend their spare time contributing to X-Plane -- a much better simulator if actual flight simulation is important to you. I was very disappointed to learn that the helis in MS Flight Sim are actually just fixed-wing aircraft with unrealistically large flaps and other such hacks. X-Plane uses a much more realistic flight physics engine. And since I fly RC helis, I have to say that MS's sim always felt strange, not like a giant RC heli at all.

    1. Re:I prefer X-Plane by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Hopefully they'll spend their spare time contributing to X-Plane

      Are you serious? Contribute to a competing commercial product!? So that they'd have tougher competition if they get to continue working on MSFS. If they want to continue working on related stuff, they'll apply for jobs at companies developing third-party addons for MSFS.

      I take it that you're disappointed with the simulation of helicopters - I'm quite disappointed with the simulation of advanced fly-by-wire aircraft. The 777 is fine since the system in the real thing is coded to behave very much like hydraulics in order to be familiar for pilots. However, the more advanced Airbus systems really suck compared to the real thing even though they're made by third-parties that put in an enormous effort compared to what MS puts in in the included aircraft. Obviously, I've never flown the real aircraft but I've heard enough from real pilots on aviation forums that have assisted the simulator community with developing their own (free) aircraft (which - unfortunately but obviously - also suck due to the limitations in MSFS). The inclusion of an Airbus (an A321) in MSFS by MS for the first time (in FS X) did little to improve the development of fly-by-wire systems (it - like all included aircraft - obviously is complete garbage compared to the hideously expensive third-party aircraft). It is of course possible that it isn't worth putting much development effort into that niche since not that many simulator fans fly Airbus (judging from the simulator forums, at least - I don't know about the sales figures). Maybe that group of fans will grow now with the A380, though, since more people might want to fly it simply because it's the biggest :)

      As far as the physics engine is concerned, the principles behind it haven't AFAIK changed since version 1.0 - it uses a lot of tables instead of performing physics calculations and the only improvements have been to increase the table sizes with each new release so that the interpolations are less extreme.

    2. Re:I prefer X-Plane by Glonoinha · · Score: 2, Interesting

      LOMAC. Lock-On Modern Air Combat

      Drink one glass of your favorite 80 proof adult beverage, turn off the lights and fire up LOMAC and you will have a hard time discerning it from reality (at least with respect to visuals.)

      The combat is also absolutely amazing.

      Pick it up for under $20 in the bargain bin - it's worth it.

      --
      Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
    3. Re:I prefer X-Plane by quacking+duck · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you're searching Amazon it seems you're only looking for paid or official products, but why? Most X-Plane add-ons are free.

      The biggest X-Plane enthusiast site is x-plane.org, which lists over 2500 aircraft and hundreds of scenery/airport packages.

      X-Plane also runs on Mac and Linux, not just Windows. A stripped-down version even runs on iPhone.

  3. Contract it out by kaos07 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They'll probably contract out the development of the next Flight Sim, if they choose to develop it. Firing the dev team helps their balance sheet in the short term and when they choose to develop it they might lease the license or hire an external company to develop the game.

  4. Somewhat disappointing by Drinking+Bleach · · Score: 4, Funny

    I've been feeling for a while now that Microsoft should probably just drop everything and become solely a games developer (with a possible exception of MS Office, their only real successful product, put that on the Xbox or something).

  5. Google Earth by vuo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Right now Google has a VERY good opportunity to hire and release a Google Earth-based flight simulator.

    1. Re:Google Earth by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Right now Google has a VERY good opportunity to hire and release a Google Earth-based flight simulator.

      Flight sims take years of tweaking to get working well. Google do have a history of selling applications (sketchup comes to mind) but the things they do sell seem to be mere outlines of a mature product.

    2. Re:Google Earth by ps · · Score: 4, Informative
    3. Re:Google Earth by vuo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes I know of that, but it's just a toy.

  6. FS isn't an ordinary "game" by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    FS doesn't really push any game sales. Someone playing FS doesn't necessarily buy any other game, I know a few FS enthusiasts and they're anything but gamers. They're living room pilots. You have people that turned one of their rooms into a cockpit for "total immersion". They don't play any FPS or RTS games, and they certainly don't buy consoles.

    MS might have decided they're not interested in this kind of market. It does not push any sales of any other products of their line. It certainly won't push sales for any consoles, since FS enthusiasts wouldn't be caught dead with a console controller in their hands. And unless they manage to publish a full scale cockpit addon for their console, they certainly won't move from the one they have already. FS might have been a seller for new OSs, when the new FS didn't work out with the earlier model anymore, but the number of dedicated FS customers isn't really a customer base for MS. FS customers also don't really need any of their office products or their server line products.

    So MS might just have decided that this is a dead end, nothing that sells any other products of theirs.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  7. Well, they already sold Train Sim by KDR_11k · · Score: 3, Informative

    MS already sold off the Train Simulator long ago, judging by the amount of shelf space stores allocate to addons for it and the flight sim there's probably a pretty big market for stuff like that.

    Then again from what I heard the Train Simulator was a flop in the US...

    --
    Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  8. Good memories... by Lord+Lode · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've got nothing but good memories of FS version 5.0, played on a 386 computer. I've seen Flight Simulator X in action recently and it looked fantastic. This is one of the things of MS that are actually good, what a shame to see it go. If they contract FS out, that's not the same...

  9. it was an outsourced product to begin with by darkeye · · Score: 4, Informative

    the MS Flight Simulator was initially the product of subLOGIC, and written by Bruce Artwick. It's just that MS chose to brand and market the product. After a while, they just 'took' the source code, and started to develop it in-house. subLOGIC struggled to release its own versions, but unfortunately they failed. (For this ugly business strategy, I chose not buy MS FS ever.)

    Anyway, they might just chose to outsource again.

    1. Re:it was an outsourced product to begin with by DingerX · · Score: 4, Informative

      They also 'took' Bruce Artwick to develop it for them.

    2. Re:it was an outsourced product to begin with by dfranks · · Score: 5, Informative
      Your version of history is not quite correct. subLOGIC became an out of balance company with around 6 engineers and over 50 people on the "business" side. The two sides of the company were separated by a door, and there was an engineering staff member who (among other responsibilities) was guardian of the door. Bruce Artwick was the president of the engineering side, and Stu Moment was the president of the business side.
      Tensions rose, and one day Stu Moment basically fired the entire engineering department (I never heard what the precipitating event was).
      subLOGIC owned the rights to all products except Mac and PC flight simulator (this was pre-windows as I recall), but Bruce and/or MS owned the rights to MS Flight Simulator on the PC and MAC. Bruce then opened an office a few miles away (the creation of BAO) and since Stu had fired all of us, he hired us.
      subLOGIC tried to take the code base for the Amiga, Atari, MSX, etc etc and form a viable product for the PC with limited market success. BAO produced several versions of Flight Simulator (plus Scenery and Aircraft Designer, Tower Simulator and a few other products) before Microsoft decided to move the development in house (or closer anyway). I was no longer with the company at this point, but my understanding was that they initially did not bring over most of the staff as they issued a "move to Redmond or here is the door" edict. Most of the staff decided to leave, but once MS tried their hand at development several of the key engineers were rehired and allowed to work remotely. At that point, FS source was 100% x86 assembler. While it was a high quality piece of code, it was extreemly complex and required talented developers to work with it.
      I assume the original BAO people eventually left and went on to other projects, I have not heard from any of them in the last 10 years or so.
      So, in summary: MS did not "take" the Flight Simulator source, it never belonged to subLOGIC. I assume that Bruce sold the remaining rights to MS at the breakup of BAO.

      Dean

      I still remember a question from the BAO pre-interview screening test, amazingly enough only 5 candidates (out of a very large number) ever got this right:

      Write a small code fragment (language of your choice) to calculate the internal angle between adjacent sides given the number of sides of a regular polygon. As I recall, scenery and aircraft designed actually had code to do this calculation.

  10. Inflight recorder results by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Altitude is 65530 feet and climbing, 65534, 65535, oh fu-!"

  11. Yes, this one does as well by WindBourne · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In a short bit, they will "decide" to re-do the team. And they will be hired in India or China with MAYBE one or two ppl from the old team. If these coders were smart, they would approach a VC person NOW, about doing another game.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  12. Twenty-seven years? by vrmlguy · · Score: 2, Funny

    I graduated from college in 1978 and moved to Silicon Valley. In a short time, I owned an Apple II, an Advent VideoBeam projection TV, and a copy of Bruce Artwick's original Flight Simulator. With a nominal 64" screen, it seemed as immersive as any commercial flight simulator of that time (even if it was low-res black-and-white wireframe). And when you bought it, you got a second floppy with the source code! I'm saddened to see the franchise end after 30+ years. Yes, I know that they'll probably farm it out, but it's lost its continuity.

    Hey, you kids, get off my tarmac!

    --
    Nothing for 6-digit uids?
  13. MSFS was the original PC compatibility test by Terje+Mathisen · · Score: 3, Interesting

    For the first 2-3 years of PC history, the original Microsoft Flight Simulator was _the_ PC compatibility test:

    If a machine could run MSFC, then it would also run retty much every other PcDos application on the market.

    The first stumble came in 1984 with the PCAT, since the 6 MHz 286 cpu in this box meant that all the carefully tuned sw timing loops ran too fast and the simulator ran about twice as fast as it should.

    Terje

    --
    "almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"
  14. Re:Not surprising by NeverVotedBush · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Not for the 9/11 hijackers. They used Microsoft Flight Simulator to practice navigating by landmarks and flying the jets to their targets.

    The hijackers didn't care about takeoffs or landings and instead cared only about the flying. It's what raised suspicions at The Airmen in Norman, OK and caused them to contact the FBI.

    If they could have only been put in contact with the CIA who knew that bin Laden was planning an attack using airliners, 9/11 could possibly have been prevented. But that's a completely different thread... (see also the August 6 2001 PDB)

  15. Re:ATTENTION SHOPPERS! by justthinkit · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'd settle for learning how he got it past the lameness filter.

    --
    I come here for the love