Slashdot Mirror
Midnight Commander Development Revived
richlv writes "Popular Unix console file manager Midnight Commander has experienced a stall for the last few years. Most distributions (including the conservative Slackware) shipped patched packages or snapshots. Despite that, everybody had a favorite bug or two — either inability to specify ssh connection port, or problems with interrupted FTP sessions. Or maybe copying of larger datasets. Or maybe the infamous 'shell is still active' message, which often brought unexpected changes of current directory with it. Whatever it was, we either cursed it every time, or learned to live with it. It seems that finally something many were waiting for has happened — there's some activity on mc development. Check out the new homepage, and let's hope revival is both healthy and lengthy."
Yes, and let's welcome them back by taking down their webserver.
Nice job.
Yes, and let's welcome them back by taking down their webserver.
Nice job.
Seriously, three comments and the server's already 500ing?!? I had to get Winnertz Patrick's phone number from the whois information and call him to ask about the new MC.
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
Couldn't have been a very beefy webserver if the subscriber preview was enough to knock it offline. Insert lame and predictable jokes here.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
I'm still waiting for a restart on wmaker's development. anyone have any news about it ?
What ? Me, worry ?
I love mc!
I use it all the time for patch management. One little tidbit that most people do not know about mc is that you can cd into a patch. Edit the diffs in the patch, and copy a diff from one patch to another patch file, just like copying or moving a file.
Steven Rostedt
-- Nevermind
Yeah! Let's post about some obscure piece of software so unused not even unemployed open sores "programmers" want to touch it.
Congratulations, you have officially identified yourself as completely clueless.
XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
Amish 2.0, now with computers but with the ui equivilient of a buggy.
Seriously, three comments and the server's already 500ing?!? I had to get Winnertz Patrick's phone number from the whois information and call him to ask about the new MC.
So not only is their server going to be down, but now their Web admin's phone is going to be ringing off the hook!
Way to go, dude.
My blog
I didn't get a 500, so here's a mirror: ;-) )
(not quite what I expected, to be honest
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/trac/web/api.py", line 339, in send_error
'text/html')
File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/trac/web/chrome.py", line 715, in render_template
return stream.render(method, doctype=doctype)
File "/var/lib/python-support/python2.5/genshi/core.py", line 179, in render
return encode(generator, method=method, encoding=encoding, out=out)
File "/var/lib/python-support/python2.5/genshi/output.py", line 60, in encode
return _encode(u''.join(list(iterator)))
File "/var/lib/python-support/python2.5/genshi/output.py", line 311, in __call__
for kind, data, pos in stream:
File "/var/lib/python-support/python2.5/genshi/output.py", line 753, in __call__
for kind, data, pos in stream:
File "/var/lib/python-support/python2.5/genshi/output.py", line 592, in __call__
for kind, data, pos in stream:
File "/var/lib/python-support/python2.5/genshi/output.py", line 707, in __call__
text = mjoin(textbuf, escape_quotes=False)
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xfc in position 1640: ordinal not in range(128)
Midnight Commander is one of the tools that I could live without, but I sure wouldn't want to. I use it all over the place ... on the Solaris servers and my Windows XP workstation here at work, on my Linux, OS/2, and Windows boxes at home, on my Nokia 770 tablet, etc.
It makes it easier to delete files and directory trees with certainty (and accuracy!), the built-in editor is good enough for modifying shell scripts and even making moderate code changes to more involved programs, its built-in FTP capability is invaluable when one has to flip a lot of files or directories between hosts, and its customizable menus and panelization capabilities can add some fairly powerful capabilities to even the most dedicated command-line user.
I love my Midnight Commander! :-)
Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
As opposed to a swarm of smelly teenagers lolwtfing at the latest trendy way to spell 'pwnage'?
What kind of minimum installation includes midnight commander but doesn't include cp?
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
I'm interested to hear from MC users the advantages of MC over say konqueror with frames and fish to do remote file management.
How about not needing an X-Windows environment?
...To mistype "mv".
Seriously, I can't say much about the merits of Midnight Commander as an actual program, but for years I've not-so-silently cursed it for its choice of executable names.
So Lame and Predictable walk into this bar...
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
The cp command doesn't allow for the arbitrary point-and-shoot selection of files to copy, and it also doesn't have some of the more useful related functionality (e.g., directory comparison) that I use all the time in mc.
It's an *addition* to the standard admin toolset, not a replacement. IMO.
Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
Priceless. Dead as a doornail. *sigh* Still, it's nice to see MC being developed again. (Or not see in the case of what we've done to the server. See? This is why we can't have nice things!)
MC is always my go to file manager in Linux. I've tried other graphical clients, and none cut it for ease of use and simplicity.
All hail Midnight Commander's victorious return!
I've spent quite a bit of time on Digg, and I can tell you that Digg is not a technology site. It's a social networking site where users share the latest and greatest information in whatever area suites their fancy. As Slashdot's tagline "News for Nerds" suggests, Slashdot is for nerds. Midnight Commander news is certainly nerdy and therefore on topic.
Furthermore, the "Stuff that matters" part is intended to assure that Slashdot news won't be quite a banal as Digg's news. Digg users may care that user X just managed to get a four day old story to "pop", but the world outside of Digg's user-networks really doesn't care.
So with all respect intended, your complaints are duly noted and ignored. Now get off my lawn, ya' darn kids!
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Any admin who judges current software based on dim memories of 10-year-old incarnations needs to get out a little and breathe the flowery air of fresh software development. :-)
Seriously. I've been using it on multiple platforms for close to a decade now, and I'm not sure I can remember it misplacing anything. Without my accidentally telling it to, anyway... These computer thingies are so literal. :-) :-)
Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
I would rather have these programmers focus their efforts on Krusader ? It seriously needs some love.
Ah, again the myth that open source developers are a free workforce you can redirect between projects on your whim... It just doesn't go like that, people work on whatever happens to interest them at the time.
(this comes from another Krusader user btw - by the look of their web page, they seem to be doing alright)
Save your wrists today - switch to Dvorak
Do text apps still have a place in today's world?
Not on the desktop, but there are large number of computer users who work on headless computers, and frankly don't want anything more than a console open with ssh.
I just completed a four year ph.d, during which my *entire* research effort was conducted using a linux cluster to which I connected via putty or bash, depending on where I was.
Yes I know, and so did my colleagues, that its possible with todays faster conection speed to run a gui over that connection, but why bother when you can already get so much done in a console window?
I use GUI apps a lot, they have an important place in the world of modern computing, but so do CLI apps.
A learning experience is one of those things that say, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' - D. Adams
Server is down...anyone have screenshots?
... Lame fell over and Predictable smiled.
While we're resurrecting old text mode utilities, can we get a modern Magellan clone? None of the search front-ends to stuff like Spotlight or Beagle that I've tried come close to being as cool as Magellan was.
By the way, does Magellan still work on Windows? The last time I tried was probably on XP SP1.
... when GNUIT (previously GIT) is out there ?
Smaller, faster, compiles fine on all platforms with any C compiler and it only requires curses.
And most impportantly it doesn't crashes and it doesn't corrupsts files like MC does.
1% APY, No fees, Online Bank https://captl1.co/2uIErYq Don't let your $$$ sit in a no-interest acct.
I am not a command line hacker - mc has always been a VERY important tool I install in just about every box I've ever set up.
Glad to see it's not forgotten about
*DrugCheese rants*
How do I use konqueror with frames and fish on my web tablet? :-)
MC is self-contained, relatively easy to install, fast, and works with vanilla ssh. Not sure what frames and fish are (links?), but I'd be surprised if they were as easy to install for a non-root user (as I often am).
Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
Sorry for this.
There are currently over 2000 different IPs online on the webserver _per minute_. We are currently looking for a solution to fix this as fast as possible :S Sorry for the downtime (and thanks for your excellent DoS! :))
> The two programs that drive me bonkers are mc and vi. Why?
> because I'm not savvy to their syntax and their is no obvious way
> to get out of them once you launch them.
So F10 for QUIT is too hard, especially when it's actually printed on the key bar (which in every distro I tried was always set to be displayed by default)?
C'mon man...
The choice of tools that one has is rarely an either/or choice.
That's why I tend to write a mix of shell scripts, Perl, and C code depending on the task at hand.
It's also why I sometimes use Midnight Commander to perform tasks which I could also manage using other (and often simpler) tools. Sometimes file copies in the morning go astray -- I find this happens less often when I use a tool which explicitly shows me the destination. Sometimes using a color-coded editor is nice when my eyes are tired and I'm not on a server which has vim installed (that means most of them here).
It's Windows mentality to assume that there's only one solution for the job, it's not UNIX mentality. :-)
Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
Frames are just that, frames. Like in a web browser, but instead for your file browser. Pretty simple. MC has 2 frames, konquorer can have as many frames as you like.
FiSH is a Filesystem over SsH. Put fish://user@host/path/ in your konqueror address bar and you can browse a remote filesystem just as if it were local. It all works out of the box too, really nice.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Okay.. thanks for taking down my/our webserver.. however most of the people will be interested in the sourcecode (at least I hope so).
For those which only want to have the code, please have a look on this git mirror:
http://repo.or.cz/w/midnight-commander.git
as I've currently took down the webserver because it makes no sense to let him running this way. I'll search for a solution as fast as possible.
Greetings
Patrick Winnertz
on behalf of the MC Development Team
Define better. GUIs are sometimes faster and sometimes the commandline is faster. Both have ups and downs in terms of both speed and security. I like to use them both.
Here be signatures
The function key line showing "10 QUIT" is displayed on the bottom left by default, the "eXit" option is displayed under the File menu in an obvious place at the bottom, and typing "exit" at the command line will exit the program just like it does any other shell.
With all due respect, what other information would you like? And how more obvious could it be?
I agree that quitting isn't obvious if you don't think of it as a shell AND if you don't have your F-keys properly defined in your xterm or ssh client, but that's a user issue, IMO.
Equating the mc UI with the vi UI is ... silly.
Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
How about a "Top 5 greatest Linux file managers that you should use" with full res HD 1080p screenshot per page with a stupid concl-... er...
*Ducks and runs*
Here be signatures
I'm pretty sure the people working on this project would consider anything "desktop" oriented irrelevant.
If I can type 'mc', hit a bunch of hotkeys, and be done in a couple of seconds isnt' that a tool worth having? I can do a hell of a lot with mc before krusader even loads up. And I don't even have to take my fingers off the keyboard.
That's not irrelevant to the desktop, that's a superior alternative to the desktop.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
While MC is by far the best file manager on Linux (and a very handy text editor too), you don't really need it in Windows.
Total Commander is much better in that environment. And while it is not Free, you can still use it for free if you accept an additional click when starting it. I have bought 3 licenses for my home machines, but use it constantly on all my client's machines in it's non-paid incarnation. The little nag screen really doesn't bother me.
The OS which is most lacking in this regard is actually Mac. A good Total Commander clone is the only thing I'm really missing when working on Macs. (yes, I know about (and use) muCommander).
Priceless. Dead as a doornail.
He's just pinin' for the fjords!
There is a Linux desktop and it is more ready than Windows. There, however, will never be a year of avarage joe knowing what he is doing with a desktop.
Here be signatures
Anyone else regret not getting attached to tools like MC years ago?
There are a few tools that pop up whenever people discuss the easiest or best way to do a task... and I always wish I had made the investment of time to get proficient with those tools. However it almost seems too late.
For example, vi and emacs... I am sure they are great, but the investment of time to get proficient makes it hard to justify even trying. So on my headless linux boxen I use nano, I can do everything I need to do without a cheatsheet.
MC is the same way... I have tinkered with it, but I always found myself exiting to the command line because I would find something I didn't know how to do and didn't want to take the time to figure it out.
Does anyone have any tips on how to best add these types of tools to your tool set when you've mastered an alternative. Simply saying to use it doesn't take into consideration productivity.
Are these tools worth investing personal time into, say instead of studying for a certification or something. Are the gains really that significant?
Sometimes the best solution is to stop wasting time looking for an easy solution.
Sorry for this.
There are currently over 2000 different IPs online on the webserver _per minute_.
Welcome to 1997.
(oh, wait, this is the Midnight Commander team that we are talking to)
Er, dude, this Slashdot thingi has been doing this to webservers for over a decade now! Good morning, and welcome to 2009!
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
I think I've heard this one. Not a fan.
> and this is why there will never be a year of the linux desktop
Yes... because we can't or won't pull an Office 2007 whereby everyone has
their nice comfortable and old tools forcibly ripped away from them just
so they can be forced to use the flavor of the month.
Forget about "consistency" between apps. How about consistency over time.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
I remember before Linux my first hint at this was Volvalk|sp?| Commander,
Volkov Commander? (Warning: The URL given links to a page that may cause uncontrollable flashbacks to the Web circa 1995. Proceed with caution.)
Unarguably the true descendant of Norton Commander, and it has gone open source recently!
Proper archive support, plug-in architecture, etc,etc.
http://www.farmanager.com/
I don't even consider touching any pc running Windows without a copy of this jewel.
While I'll be glad to see the resurrection of Midnight Commander, I'm not chomping at the bit because I think that the Worker file manager is a much better alternative. Its design will be immediately recognizable to those who have spent any time with the Amiga because it is based on (which is a nice way of saying it's a virtual copy of) Directory Opus. Check it out. You won't be disappointed.
1. Pops up faster
2. Being able to use it over a tty console
3. Hotkeys
4. If you want to compare it to a KDE app, at least pick Krusader
5. Profit
I highly suggest reading The Art of UNIX Programming to see why the CLI is still [highly] relevant, even for desktop users. Granted, I am probably in the minority, but my job would be significantly harder if I weren't able to just string long chains of arbitrary commands together. I'd probably spend a lot more time programming and a lot less time working. xargs is a fucking godsend, let me tell you.
Norton Commander was great until it hit ver. 5, when it became bloatware. It felt sluggish and ate a ton of memory, which was still pretty important then (especially for those that still sported 640K-1M of RAM)... Volkov Commander became a great substitute, since it was written in assembly and the executable was quite a bit less than 100K in size (comparing to ~300K or so of NC executable).. It was so common in some places (like Russia) that people thought there was something wrong with a PC if NC or VC wasn't installed.
*sigh*... The screen covered up by two big blue panels is forever etched onto my retinas... :-)
--- sig moved for great justice.
Except that if you're running MC in gnome-terminal, F10 doesn't work (it brings up the window menu. Now you might say why am I running MC in GT, but we all know that linux users can't stay away from the command line...
Krusader is the best commander like gui for Linux. Give it a shot.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
As much as I've tried, I can't get used to mc's rather emacs-like excessive use of modifier keys. Does anyone know of a similar program - or even better a modification of mc - which is more vi-like and uses 'modes' instead of Ctrl et al?
"A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire
You can get it working by right-clicking on the terminal, and unchecking Show Menubar. Then F10 works.
You can also deselect the "Enable the menu shortcut key (F10 by default)" option in gnome-terminal's Keyboard Shortcuts dialog, accessible via the Edit menu.
most of what follows is true
Ever tried Krusader? After finding it I don't use mc that much...
I prefer CLI and ncurses apps, because they are designed for a keyboard interface. I have found console-based apps for all my needs, and the only thing I run most of the time I run a screen session in urxvt and forefox with vimperator, which also saves me form having to reach for a touchpad/mouse. This is of course doable also with ratpoison, xmonad, and others, but in GUI apps ease of control exclusively form the keyboard is not usually a big priority.
Krusader. It's the KDE based MC clone.
I'm sure there are purists out there who don't want the KDE libs on their machines or aren't into this newfangled GUI stuff. Who want that horrible looking interface on a console. But me, I think Krusader is way slicker than MC.
And did I say TABS? Sweeet.
> no, yes, maybe (tagging beta)