Family Dog Cloned, Thanks To Dolly Patents

patentpundit writes "BioArts International announced today that they have delivered the world's first commercially cloned dog, a 10-week old Labrador named Lancey, to Florida residents Edgar and Nina Otto. According to the press release issued by the company, 'BioArts International is a biotech company focused on unique, untapped markets in the global companion animal, stem cell and human genomics industries. The Best Friends Again program is a collaboration between BioArts and the Sooam Biotech Research Foundation in South Korea, home to the best and most experienced dog cloning team in the world.' The technology that makes this animal cloning possible stems from the cloning patents developed at the Roslin Institute for the cloning of the now famous, or infamous depending on your view, Dolly the sheep."

Comments

Why?

[gnick]

A race horse or some prized show animal I could maybe understand. But what's the point of cloning a companion animal?

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Monkey]

Because that was the best tasting dog ever and I want seconds.

Re:Why?

[cayenne8]

"A race horse or some prized show animal I could maybe understand. But what's the point of cloning a companion animal?"

If you have to ask, then you couldn't possibly understand.

I dunno about cat people, but, as a 'dog person'...I can tell you that my animals really have become a part of the family. They aren't treated like 'dogs' or animals, they are really more just little fuzzy people that don't talk much in our homes.

When I lose my pups....I grieve over them like I would a friend or family member that is close to me.

In fact...I've often though, if you don't feel this way about your pets....why own one?

Re:Why?

[gnick]

I understand loving your pets. I love my dog and, when he goes, it will be exceeding painful. If I could have him return as a puppy when he dies it would be great.

But genetically identical != same dog. The fact that I don't need a clone doesn't mean I don't love my dog, just that I accept that he'll die one day and that nothing (not even cloning) will bring him back. Well... Maybe burying him in that old Indian burial ground a short hike from my back yard... But that just seems like I'd be asking for trouble.

Re:Why?

[stokessd]

The old and tired bumper sticker sums it up nicely:

"The more people I meet, the more I like my dog"

My dogs and cat are members of the family. I'd throw my neighbor's sprogs under a train to save my dog.

But with so many animals in shelters, it seems a bit odd to clone one (other than to say you can). Go give a new one a good home.

Sheldon

Re:Why?

[mcgrew]

I see you've never had a beloved dog or cat. I feel sorry for you.

My cat (actually my daughter's cat) got me through a divorce, a home foreclosure, and a bankrupcy. A dog or a cat will give love without demanding anything from you except food, water, and a place to take a shit.

A dog won't nag, a cat won't scold. They're always there for you. Their love is unconditional. I'd clone Little One in a heartbeat if I had the money.

Re:Why?

[jollyreaper]

Because that was the best tasting dog ever and I want seconds.

Watch out, this guy can probably kick your ass at Starcraft, too.

Re:Why?

[pete-classic]

Grandma is part of the family too . . .

-Peter

Re:Why?

[SatanicPuppy]

I think trying to xerox the dog kinda misses the point. You're going to spend the entire dogs life wondering why he's not exactly like his progenitor.

Get a new dog, and you can keep your good memories of the previous dog untainted.

Re:Why?

[alexborges]

Yes yes, this is precisely the point.

A dog is a guy, one loves them. True. But they are an experience that changes your life.

What you want to do if you loose a great companion dog is grieve... and then, when youre ready, go and have a new adventure with a new dog! Why the exact same genome?

The genome means nothing to human emotions. Nothing at all. We can adopt and love our children as our own. We can love people that are not in our family and will never be.

The genome is only a code that generaly states how the hell the thingie will look, what diseases it inherits, what inheritable strenghts can it inherit. But its not, at all, the same individual (it really CANT be the same individual, you see? Not in this universe. To quote Dr. House "ive complained, but there you have it").

Re:Why?

[gnick]

Not at all the case. I love my dog dearly (the cats are OK too I guess...) But that's really part of the problem I see with this.

I accept that you love your pets and accept them as members of your family. That's great and I understand completely - I'm in the same boat. But, if another member of your family died, would you also clone them? Cloning a beloved pet only strikes me as slightly less creepy than cloning a beloved child that died too early...

Like I said in a post above, genetically identical != same animal. We (typically) outlive our pets. That's just the way it is. Forming an emotional bond to an animal just because it shares genes with an animal that you loved just seems unhealthy.

Re:Why?

[Mr. Slippery]

I can tell you that my animals really have become a part of the family.

If your sister died, would you have her cloned? What about your son or daughter?

I love my dogs very much. I would think it an insult to them to think that cloning would "bring them back" any more than it would bring back a human family member.

Re:Why?

[Feanturi]

Except that you've missed the point that "Little One 2" would not resemble the one you already know, personality-wise. Did you know that with a cat clone, the fur colour wouldn't even necessarily be the same? Get a new one and grow some love for that one as well, you'll be emotionally richer for it. With a clone you'd be forcing expectations on an innocent animal that only wants to love you unconditionally, while you're still looking to find "Little One" in them. That's just wrong.

Re:Why?

[yancey]

Think of it as very expensive therapy. Having something that looks similar, but does not have the same personality should gradually allow the owner to let go.

Re:Why?

[e2d2]

You want to have a good laugh? Walk into a shelter and ask for 55 lbs of cat.

Re:Why?

[Hal_Porter]

When I was in Korea there was an English punk fanzine that run a phrasebook every now and again. One of the entries was "Dog eating savages!", clearly a handy phrase to know in Korean.

Re:Why?

[fyoder]

The genome is only a code that generaly states how the hell the thingie will look, what diseases it inherits, what inheritable strenghts can it inherit.

But there are also elements of personality which are genetic. No, a clone won't be the same dog, but it will be effectively its identical twin and more like the old dog than any new dog could be.

Re:Why?

[garett_spencley]

I realize you're being funny, but in the true geek spirit, and being someone who loves to cook and has considered changing careers and becoming a chef, I can not resist the urge to get serious and rip this hypothesis apart.

There are actually a lot of factors, outside of the breed, that influence the taste of meat. The feed being the most important. So we'll assume that you feed it the exact same diet (and that the manufacturer of said feed does not alter it's ingredients). Then hope that the dog never gets sick and requires medication. But then, maybe your original dog got sick and needed medication and that contributed somewhat to it's flavour. Environmental conditions also play a vital role. Did the dog get lots of exercise ? Muscle strength contributes immensely to the texture, tenderness and flavour of the meat. Was the dog ever abused (maybe a previous owner) ? Stress releases all kinds of hormones and chemicals in the body that can affect flavour. Leave the dog alone for a day, get him all worked up and upset, and come back to have a completely different tasting animal.

Farmers who compete on quality and taste (as oppose to cost) have come up with all kinds of theories and practices (some proven, some superstitions, some plausible but untested) that they claim gives their meat a superior taste and texture. For example, some cow farmers actually massage their meat with electric massagers, claiming it produces more tender beef.

Ultimately I must side with the GP. Cloned Animal != Same Animal.

Re:Why?

[garett_spencley]

To further this thought, some people might not actually want the SAME dog, but a dog with the same temperment and behavioural tendencies.

But then, I'm not a pet person at all. So I might not "get it". I do know that I would want a dog that can be easily trained not to bark or crap in my house, though.

So if you had one that was a breeze to train why not get it's genetic identical ?

Re:Why?

[e2d2]

Nonsense. The dog spirit transfers from one body to the next just like any other. I should know, in my last life I was a malamute. At least, that's my excuse when I play with my balls.

Re:Why?

[IainMH]

I totally hear that. I would be devastated if something happened to my cats.

I confess that I'm now a cat person. I wasn't 18 months ago. I liked cats more after living with my friend's ginger tom for a while, but still wasn't a cat lover per se.

Then last year I got two Maine Coons. Anyone who has a Maine Coon will understand when I say 'nuff said.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maine_Coon

Best. Cats. Ever.

Re:Why?

[garett_spencley]

Actually, yes :(

I would never buy meat from a farmer that does that, but in some parts of the world they do truly sick things to the animals (like skinning them alive) because they think it makes the meat taste better.

One extremely popular food that could count as an example is Foie Gras. It's duck liver (though you can get Foie Gras from other animals but unless you specify what animal then duck is usually assumed) that has been artificially enlarged via force feeding the animal. Whether or not gorging is actually uncomfortable for the animal is debatable (I have heard plausible arguments from people claiming that fowl will actually self-gorge before migration, and anecdotes from farmers who claimed the animals actually LIKE it), but it has been banned in some parts of the world because the gorging is seen as animal abuse.

Re:Why?

[ljw1004]

The genome means a heck of a lot to human emotions.

Think of the many stories of twins who were separated at birth, raised in ignorance of each other, then are re-united and discover a deeper bond with each other than with anyone else. It doesn't always happen, but it happens often enough to show that there's something going on.

The perception of the genome means a lot to animal emotions.

Think of the finch studies (they're what I've read about in Dawkins' "Extended Phenotype") where a parent bird cares for its offspring in direct proportion to what percentage of the genome the parent thinks this offspring shares.

Think of pretty much the entirety of human history and its obsession with bloodlines, and male sons, and fidelity. Genome needn't matter, but it's a historical fact that it does.

It's true what you wrote that "We *can* love people not in our family". But at the same time the genome has an enormous effect on emotions.

Re:Why?

[LWATCDR]

I agree. My wive adopted a rescue puppy that we a breeder at a puppy mill. She was the most loving animal you have ever seen.
We lost her after only a year because of kidney failure. Both my wife and I where heart broken. Three weeks later my wife and went to our local shelter and found this really sweet 10 month old puppy. She seemed to fall in love with my wife and now is a great member of our family.
I wish I could have brought back my old dog and give her a good life from beginning to end. Even with cloning I can not.
If you really are a dog person and lose your pet then I would suggest that the best way to show your love is to go to a shelter and give one of those dogs a good home.

Re:Why?

[Adult film producer]

There is a natural (organic if you want to call it that) foie gras that the spaniards market.. it's a regional duckling that gorges on the local feed before moving on. The livers are not nearly as big and the flavor isn't quite the same as force fed foie gras. Besides that, the force feeding of these ducks isn't as horrible as some people make it out to be. They just open the mouth and stick a tube down the throat, filling their tummy up with beans and stuff.. takes 4 seconds and the bird hardly makes a noise (with this happening several times a day for a couple of weeks before slaughter.) I'm sure there are some youtube videos that show it.

Re:Why?

[cayenne8]

"The fact that you'd say that you'd kill people to save an animal is... disturbing."

Strange isn't it?

I can watch a movie where people get blown away and slashed with chain saws with no problem, BUT let them kick one dog, and I"\'m outta there!!

Seriously..I don't know. If I saw a kid I didn't know in traffic and my dog there too about to get hit, I gotta guess I'd run to grab and save my dog first.

Re:Why?

[SnarfQuest]

So, you paid a huge sum of money on a cloned dog. How do you know you have an actual clone, and not just another dog they pulled out of the pound? Don't lab's look pretty much the same? After spending that much, I hope you've also paid for some DNA testing.

Re:Why?

[Qrlx]

Why you gotta pick on ducks? The entire production animal ecosystem consist of animals "artificially enlarged."

Cows don't normally eat corn, antibiotics, and parts of other cows. But that's what we put in the feed trough.

The notion of "animal abuse" seems incongruous with the fact that said animals exist solely to be slaughtered and eaten.

Re:Why?

[bar-agent]

Having something that looks similar, but does not have the same personality should gradually allow the owner to let go.

I think it's more like, "You look like Dave, but you aren't acting like Dave ever would. What are you?" You know, like your dog is a pod person now. Probably not therapeutic.

Re:Why?

[Spellvexit]

A Korean friend of mine told me about how very once and a while her family would take a trip out to the country, and one of their haunts was a place quite near a "dog farm." Apparently, the meat is tastier when engorged with blood, but that doesn't happen well unless the animal is tenderized while alive. So occasionally their peaceful trips to the country would be punctuated by the yelping and keening of dogs being beaten to death, simply to enhance flavor.

The Korean taste for dog is probably over-exaggerated over here, but there's apparently a (quite brutal) market for it over there. Thankfully my friend was not a consumer, but honestly, I'd think a trip to the country like that would put off quite a few potential dog-eaters!

Re:Why?

[commodoresloat]

You want to have a good laugh? Walk into a shelter and ask for 55 lbs of cat.

Why would they have that much pussy laying around a homeless shelter?

Re:Why?

[cusco]

During my first trip to Peru I got talking to a kid who was excited because they were going to kill and eat the turkey for Christmas. I asked him whether it was hard to kill the turkey, and he said, "Well, not normally, but sometimes they don't want to drink the wine." Huh? Turns out they get the turkey falling-down drunk before slaughtering it because they say it tastes better.

Re:Why?

[Jeremy Visser]

Get a new dog, and you can keep your good memories of the previous dog untainted.

Says the SatanicPuppy.

Re:Why?

[Macrat]

If your cat mittens died,

Isn't it required to kill the cat before making mittens out of it?

Re:Why?

[alc6379]

Heck, bull baiting, the practice of tying a bull to a post, then sicking attack dogs on it, was once mandatory in Great Britain. The reasoning behind the practice was that baited bull meat was considered to taste better.

Of course, this practice was banned, but it just goes to show you that there's nothing new under the sun.

Would that be...

[rodney dill]

K-10 then?

Re:Would that be...

[morgan_greywolf]

ADD 1 TO K GIVING K

This American Life

[gEvil (beta)]

This American Life had a great piece on a cloned show bull a while ago. You can listen to the episode here (click on the orange 'Full Episode' link -- it's the second segment, so you'll need to skip ahead), or you can watch/rent/torrent/buy Episode 1 of the Showtime version of the show. Interesting stuff....

Its not the same pet, folks...

[tnk1]

It may look the same, but its not the same.

Heck, the pet may not even look the same, depending on if some of the factors in coloration are environmentally induced.

More importantly, behavior is very much a factor of the pet's environment. It certainly isn't going to know who you are without the same amount of work you'd have to put into a puppy or another dog.

I'm not totally against cloning technologies, but I wish people would invest in shelter dogs instead of spending tens of thousands of dollars to add another animal to the existing population. Your old pet had a good life with you, why don't you share that with a pet who never had the same chance?

Re:Its not the same pet, folks...

[ianare]

You could use the same logic for many other things :

• Why go to a fancy restaurant when so many people are hungry ?
• Why have a baby when you could adopt ?
• Why drive a SUV instead of compact when 90% of the time you are in it by yourself ?
• Why alienate your family working long hours, when you already have millions in the bank ?
• Why spend $10 000 on shoes, when some people go barefoot their entire lives ?

And in the end, the only real answer is : "Because it makes me happy"

Re:Its not the same pet, folks...

[kungfugleek]

And in the end, the only real answer is : "Because it makes me happy"

But you also need the follow-on supporting thought: "And my happiness is more important than everybody else's."

Re:Its not the same pet, folks...

[mewshi_nya]

1) By nature, cloning a dog creates a new dog and eliminates the opportunity another dog could have. Eating at a restaurant, on the other, only deprives the establishment of food, food which the hungry masses wouldn't get in time anyway.

2) It's a biological thing to want to have a baby of your own (however, I really think more people on should be adopting)

3) Again, doesn't deprive anyone of anything material - only of clean air.

4) Because to some people, those extra 0s on the bank statement are primary, the kids and wife secondary.

5) Still doesn't deprive anyone of anything.

Re:Its not the same pet, folks...

[hansamurai]

No one's happiness but my own is in my power to achieve or to destroy.

Re:Its not the same pet, folks...

[Anonymous Coward]

then you are weak or ignorant. Most people have plenty of control over other people's happiness. The reflective individual acknowledges this and treats this power with respect.

Betting Pool on children now opening...

[jeko]

Now accepting bets for how long it takes before the first replacement child is cloned. If they can do a dog, they can do a kid, and the article reads just fine if you replace "our dog" with "our child."

I'm glad I lived long enough to see Dick Tracy's "wrist radios" and William Gibson's "matrix" become reality. I'm sorry I lived long enough to see this.

They probably just scammed them

[elrous0]

"Jim, find a puppy that looks like this one in the picture and we'll split $155,000."

Re:Exactly the same as the original, except...

[LMacG]

> evil?

Only if it has a goatee.

So the patents cloned a dog?

[Gerzel]

Wow I didn't know IP laws could get up and work in a lab much less do genetic/biologic engineering.

Ummm

[FirstNoel]

I have a cat that nags and had a dog that scolded. Pets can give you just as much shit (literally and figuratively) as any other member of the family. But they keep coming back... Now they can keep coming back forever. Sean D.

As a twin.

[tdwMighty]

As a twin I find this ridiculous, sad, ignorant and just plain stupid. Obviously, having the same DNA as my brother in no way makes me the same person. This is no different. Why the hell don't people understand that? More science education and less time wasted on religion!

Liam Lynch

[Shaitan Apistos]

A musician/movie director named Liam Lynch had his cat cloned a while back by Genetic Savings & Clone.

He's had some interesting things to say about the differences and similarities between his original cat and the clone on his podcast.

Good for divorcees

[dukeofurl01]

I know lots of divorced couples that had a hard time deciding who gets the dog, now there's one less thing they have to argue about.