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Intel To Design PlayStation 4 GPU

madhatter256 writes "According to the Inquirer it looks like Intel will be designing Sony's next gen console GPU. It will most likely be an off-shoot of the Larrabee GPU architecture. It is also unknown as of yet if Intel will also take part in the CPU design of the console. Due to current economic times it was a no brainer for Sony to go with Intel. " The article also mentions rumors of ATI getting the Xbox3 GPU and, if history is any judge, the Wii2 as well.

48 of 288 comments (clear)

  1. Grammar Junta, attack! by RyanFenton · · Score: 4, Funny

    >> Wii2

    Sheesh - The proper term is WiiAlso.

    1. Re:Grammar Junta, attack! by frosty_tsm · · Score: 4, Funny

      >> Wii2

      Sheesh - The proper term is WiiAlso.

      Not the WiiWii?

    2. Re:Grammar Junta, attack! by RyanFenton · · Score: 3, Funny

      Not the WiiWii?

      That's a limited european marketing name. And it's spelled OuiiOuii.

    3. Re:Grammar Junta, attack! by dgatwood · · Score: 5, Funny

      After the Wii2 comes the Wii3... which comes in a special "R" edition with a digital video recorder, and also comes packaged with the ever popular game, Kings of Orient, making it the Wii3/Kings of Orient/R.

      --

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    4. Re:Grammar Junta, attack! by InlawBiker · · Score: 3, Funny

      I believe it will be:

      Xbox 3 Basic
      Xbox 3 Home
      Xbox 3 Media Center
      Xbox 3 Premium
      Xbox 3 Business
      Xbox 3 Ultimate
      Xbox 3 Ultimate - Halo Edition
      Xbox 3 Ultimate XTreme Turbo Black

      The will all do exactly the same thing.

    5. Re:Grammar Junta, attack! by Jherek+Carnelian · · Score: 3, Funny

      That's a limited european marketing name. And it's spelled OuiiOuii.

      And the version for playstation fanbois will be the ennui.

    6. Re:Grammar Junta, attack! by interkin3tic · · Score: 5, Funny

      And the Xbox3

      They meant the XBOX 129600. The correct formula for Xbox naming is XBOX 360^(N-1) where N is the generation number.

    7. Re:Grammar Junta, attack! by JCSoRocks · · Score: 2, Funny

      I thought it was going to be the MiiToo

      --
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    8. Re:Grammar Junta, attack! by imboboage0 · · Score: 2, Funny

      I believe it will be:

      The will all do exactly the same thing.

      You must be referring to a red ring of sorts.

      --
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    9. Re:Grammar Junta, attack! by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, it'll be the "Wii Wood," released with a lacquered birdseye maple finish. The third generation is the "Wii Wood Lake," which has a redwood finish with a lake landscape on top, and comes bundled with Wii Wood Lake Trout Fishing. It also would get an upgrade called the "Wii Wood Lake 2," which would also have a special edition with 8 times the internal flash (more VC games) called "Wii Wood Lake 2: Play."

    10. Re:Grammar Junta, attack! by Faylone · · Score: 4, Funny

      Puu?

    11. Re:Grammar Junta, attack! by frehe · · Score: 3, Funny

      Is that like the MacBook Pro Black edition, now only $200 for the privilege of us changing the pigment color in the injection mould!

      No, that's only $200 for the priviledge of you owning a computer that has the same color as The Lord's Own Turtlenecks. In addition, highly scientific studies have shown that having a black Mac, instead of a regular color Mac, will result in you attracting 150% more chicks when you sit sipping $15 soymilkchocolatelattefrappuchinomochaorangemintlattes while writing the great next american novel at your local coffeshop.

    12. Re:Grammar Junta, attack! by ozbird · · Score: 2, Funny

      And the version for playstation fanbois will be the ennui.

      ennuii.

  2. im full of jokes today by ionix5891 · · Score: 5, Funny

    that should be Playstation 3.99967873 :P

    1. Re:im full of jokes today by rcuhljr · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Shouldn't they put out games for the PS3 before they make the PS4?

    2. Re:im full of jokes today by wamerocity · · Score: 2, Insightful
      What I really hope they do is what they should have done with the PS3 in the first place.

      I think that they made a huge mistake by not keeping the same architecture with the PS3 as the PS2. If had kept the same architecture, while only increasing the processor speed and the graphics chip (while still adding new opengl lighting and shading effects, etc.), they could have easily made the PS3 FORWARD compatible, like many of the Xbox games are. Not only that, but every developer on earth knows how to program for the PS2. That would have made it so easy for studios to continue designing games in the PS2 fashion, while simply increase polygon count and textures. I think that the familiarity with the system would really have given Sony equality to designing for the 360, which almost all developers say is easier because of Visual Studios as well as the rest of the developers tools that MS provides. Never underestimate familiarity

      Example. You can render PS1 games on an old PC (hell my old PocketPC Dell axim could render PS1 games near full speed) at higher resolutions (like 1280x960) while getting rid of the boxiness of the textures, and the games look much better. The PS2 emulator for the PC (which only has a handful of games that run at full speed) can make some PS2 games look better than they did on the PS2, because it's rendered at a higher resolution. The PS3, if they had kept the same architecture as the PS2, could have EASILY upscaled EVERY PS2 game made, breathing new life into people library of old games. Who wouldn't want to replay god of war if the resolution was sharpened at 720p? Seriously, the upscaling the the PS3, (simple image anti-aliasing) doesn't really increase the picture quality much, if at all (some games actually look worse).

      Anyways, they didn't do that, and I believe it was a huge mistake. However, I hope they rectify that mistake with the next generation, and make the PS4 FORWARD compatible with my PS3 games. Let me play my PS3 games upscaled at 1080p!. That would be great. I realize that the textures don't get sharper, and that the effects don't increase, but I feel that it would be easier to attract new customer and keep existing customers if they knew all their old games would continue to work forever, and would even look better than they did before!

      My 2 cents. If someone who really knows about programming could explain how this idea isn't feasible/cost effective/a good idea, please explain.

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    3. Re:im full of jokes today by FatherOfONe · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This could be a long post, but to sum it up as best I can...

      When Sony started to think about the PS3 they talked to their TOP developers and asked them what it needed to be able to do. We can assume those companies were their internal development staff, Konomi, Square, whomever makes GT. Those companies wanted a TON more performance and as such Sony couldn't just deliver a beefed up PS2. Sony mentioned in one of their articles that these developers demanded close to 100X the performance of the PS2. Sony did their best (obviously not 100x). Also remember that Sony was sitting on the absolute dominate console at the time and they were use to forcing developers to learn new stuff. The PS2 was and is not fun to program for BUT given that there are a ton of them out there companies adapted. They were arrogant in thinking that whatever they made, the developers would be forced to learn. Another point is that the economy wasn't too bad when Sony was designing the PS3. They didn't foresee the economic meltdown that is today.

      Now the whole BlueRay thing. In short Sony wanted to cement BlueRay as the defacto standard and they used the PS3 to do that. This probably cost them this console round, but they sold enough to kill off HD-DVD. This makes it difficult to impossible for the next Xbox or Wii to use anything but BlueRay. Yes Yes Yes downloadable content... It is YEARS off from the mainstream for games and nobody wants to start a nuclear war with Walmart and Gamestop. Add to this the bandwidth caps that the Internet providers are starting to play with and we are decades away from a console with no disk media. However, Sony could have ditched BlueRay and added another 256MB of system RAM and another 256MB of video RAM, all while lowering the price by around $100. In my opinion they could have launched that system a year earlier and have been way farther ahead BUT they wanted BlueRay to win and it did. Was it worth it? Time will tell, but there is currently around 20 million PS3's out the door so almost all 3rd party companies will at least have to support it this generation.

      Sony has the largest 1st and 2nd party support for their console and they have quite a few great games (more this year), so their largest problem now is price. They have to focus like a laser beam to get the price down as fast as possible. My guess (and others) is that a $50 price drop will happen this summer. If Sony can get things under control they may lower it $100 by next Christmas season but I wouldn't hold your breath. Having 20 million consoles sold gives them a lot of room now to just focus on being profitable. Microsoft just fired a bunch of people on their XBOX team (and Zune) and Sony just lost BILLIONS this year. I don't expect anything huge from either one of them this year.

      Having said all this I do agree with your post above but it will be for the PS4. I believe the PS4 will be nothing but a slightly better PS3. The difference is that it will do great 1080P graphics on most games AND it will have a faster BlueRay drive. I could see some weird controller, just because the Wii was so successful with Wii sports. It sure won't cost $600 or $500. If we are lucky it will ditch their weird OS and go with Linux. Knowing Sony it will be their own brand, but Ubuntu would rock on it.

      --
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  3. Xbox3 and Wii2? by wjh31 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    are these confirmed names or assumed names?

    1. Re:Xbox3 and Wii2? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yes.

    2. Re:Xbox3 and Wii2? by eln · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The obvious follow-up to the Wii would be the Super Wii.

  4. Because when I think graphics, I think intel by scubamage · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Seriously - about the only thing intel graphics offers is raytracing. Their graphics chipsets are notoriously subpar, even the very best of them. Why would sony send it their way? ATI makes sense for the Wii2 since they've been working with the gamecube platform since its inception... but intel? Can someone clear this up? Do they have some magically awesome chipset that has never graced the consumer market?

    1. Re:Because when I think graphics, I think intel by Kneo24 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Which is precisely why I think this story is bullshit. No gaming machine, whether it be console or PC, will want an Intel GPU as it's workhorse for graphics. It just isn't possible. Not today. Probably not in the near future either. Unless, however, they plan on making the PS4 some super casual console that doesn't need a lot of oomph for their up and coming stick figure games.

    2. Re:Because when I think graphics, I think intel by Guspaz · · Score: 5, Informative

      Do they have some magically awesome chipset that has never graced the consumer market?

      Yes, Larrabee. It's a massively-multicored x86 processor designed to act as a GPU (it has some fixed-function GPU stuff tacked on).

      In effect, Intel intends to build a GPU powerful enough to get software rendering (and all the flexibility and power that brings) up to the same speed as hardware-accelerated rendering. Intel is also going to be providing OpenGL/Direct3D abstraction layers so that existing games can work.

      Larrabee is expected to at least be competitive with nVidia/AMD's stuff, although it might not be until the second generation product before they're on equal footing.

    3. Re:Because when I think graphics, I think intel by LordKaT · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Unless, however, they plan on making the PS4 some super casual console that doesn't need a lot of oomph for their up and coming stick figure games.

      Which wouldn't surprise me in the least, since Sony is more than willing to follow the pack leader to grab more marketshare and force their ill-conceived DRM laden formats on the masses.

    4. Re:Because when I think graphics, I think intel by ByOhTek · · Score: 3, Interesting

      wouldn't that be a Wii^2?

      Anyway, I think part of the reason Intels offerings suck, is they are going for the majority of the graphics market - integrated. They aren't really trying for powerhouse GPUs.

      I'm not saying this is a sure fire thing, but as a rough indication, compare their primary competitor that does try for powerhouse GPUs and CPUs. Look at how they perform on the former with their competitors, and the latter with Intel.

      If intel decides to make a performance GPU, it might actually work.

      Add to that the fact that, using a static architecture, consoles don't /need/ the raw power of memory, CPU or GPU that a gaming computer needs, I think Intel has the potential to provide a very reasonable GPU for a console.

      --
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    5. Re:Because when I think graphics, I think intel by afidel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Larabee is for raytraced graphics which requires lots of processors more powerful than those found of todays GPU's and more complex interactions between functional units which are strengths Intel has. Beyond that Intel is all but guaranteed to come through this depression whereas the other two GPU houses are very questionable. Finally Intel has the best fab processes in the world so they can pack more units into a given die budget then anyone else.

      --
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    6. Re:Because when I think graphics, I think intel by geekoid · · Score: 3, Informative

      No.
      It's designed to be used as a GPU:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larrabee_(GPU)

      looks really nice. I am looking forward to seeing what the finished product could do. The graphics market could use another competitor at the high consumer end.

      --
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    7. Re:Because when I think graphics, I think intel by grantek · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well the Cell was a bit out there when it was conceived, and Larrabee's sort of in that position now. I guess Sony is trying to take the bad press that came from the Cell being "too difficult to code for" and going with it, still maintaining that multicore is the way to scale up performance. Good on 'em, I say (despite my overall negative feelings toward the company).

    8. Re:Because when I think graphics, I think intel by nschubach · · Score: 5, Informative

      Which is precisely why I think this story is bullshit.

      This helps too: http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/sony-shoots-down-intel-gpu-in-ps4-rumours-525563

      --
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    9. Re:Because when I think graphics, I think intel by __aamnbm3774 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      and you're going to let them 'beta test' their high-end GPU (with absolutely zero track-record) in your flagship gaming console?

    10. Re:Because when I think graphics, I think intel by LordKaT · · Score: 2, Informative

      The whole "cell is too hard to program for" bullshit was just a symptom of a larger industry-wide problem: education simply doesn't cover multi-threaded resource sharing nearly as well as it needs to.

      I was speaking more about everything Sony has done since the walkman:

      CD burners are too expensive and complicated, you say? Use our MD players, they record like a tape deck, but have the capacity of a CD in our proprietary format!

      That digital camera too complicated? Use our sleek (if poorly engineered) alternative, they also use Memory Sticks (which you can only buy from us).

      The Wii has motion sensitive controls? One word: Sixaxis.

      In the same vein, if the Playstation 4 had three SKU's, with one of them being a "Playstation Lite" that's essentially a Wii with more processing power, I just wouldn't be surprised:

      "Oh, Wii 2 not out yet? We've got the Playstation Lite, and it has the same motion sensitive controls!"

      Really, through the past 20 years or so, Sony just sounds like a really rich cheap Chinese knockoff of everything else in the electronics market.

    11. Re:Because when I think graphics, I think intel by FunkyELF · · Score: 5, Informative

      Someone Please add this link as an update to the main summary.

    12. Re:Because when I think graphics, I think intel by ASBands · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Larrabee is expected to at least be competitive with nVidia/AMD's stuff, although it might not be until the second generation product before they're on equal footing.

      Competitiveness is not a quality of generation number. Still: What statistics have you seen that compare Larrabee and something people use right now (ATI/nVidia)? There is this presentation (PDF) they made at SIGGRAPH, which shows that performance increases as you add more Larrabee cores. Here's a graph which may mean something. The y-axis is "scaled performance" What might that mean?

      Graphs show how many 1 GHz Larrabee cores are required to maintain 60 FPS at 1600x1200 resolution in several popular games. Roughly 25 cores are required for Gears of War with no antialiasing, 25 cores for F.E.A.R with 4x antialiasing, and 10 cores for Half-Life 2: Episode 2 with 4x antialiasing.

      Sounds neat. I guess that's why they're going to promote the 32-core Larrabee. How much will something to run these cost and how much power will it consume? They're still developing this thing, so why do I keep hearing that it will BLOW MY MIND? I have no doubt that Intel has an army of capable engineers that could build something to render graphics great, but if it costs more than the consumer can possibly pay, there's no real point. Intel is gunning for 2 TFLOPs. I'm pretty sure the Radeon HD 4870 passes that mark already (and you can purchase it for less than $500). Sure, it's a cool technology, but I'd like to see some more facts and figures.

      What have I heard? Power usage/heat: 300W TDP. That's pretty horrific. Cost: 12-layer PCB. That's twice the typical graphics card and four more than the high-end Radeon and nForce cards. That doesn't directly translate into cost, but generally more complicated equals more expensive.

      But back to the PS4 -- Sony's real mistake with the PS3 was expecting the Cell processor to be the most incredible computing device ever. Original plans for the PS3 included 2 Cell processors, but they changed to the RSX when they realized the Cell wasn't capable of rendering graphics like they wanted to (whereas the XBox 360's architecture was designed with the GPU and CPU co-existing from the start). You can't build a bunch of fast parts and stick them together, you have to build a fast system. Perhaps Sony has learned their lesson.

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    13. Re:Because when I think graphics, I think intel by Joce640k · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Larrabee has 32 cores, so that's all right then.

      There's no reason Intel can't make a high-end graphics chip, their fabrication processes alone would give them a huge advantage over ATI/NVIDIA.

      If they haven't made one so far it's because they're not really interested. They already sell more graphics chips than the competition so why bother?

      The market for top-of-the-range graphics cards is pretty small. ATI/NVIDIA make way more money from their $50 cards than their $500 cards.

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    14. Re:Because when I think graphics, I think intel by theaceoffire · · Score: 5, Informative

      Out of the three consoles, Sony is the only one who lets you use a browser with flash, use standardized cords and hard drives, use generic keyboards / mice/ tablets/ printers/ cameras/ etc, and play almost any format video off the disk.

      They even allow you to install another OS on their system. Compared to this, it is MS and Nintendo who are "Forcing their ill-conceived DRM laden formats" on the masses.

      Unless you are talking strictly about Blu-Ray instead of Hardware. Don't know why that one would bother anyone, since DVD's and CD's also have DRM but no one seems worried about that.

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  5. Inquirer bullshit by Trepidity · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I know Slashdot isn't known for its high standards of editorial oversight, but do you really have to waste our time parroting Inquirer bullshit?

    Note that the only media source claiming that Intel is designing the PS4 GPU is The Inquirer, which is wrong more often than they're right. And Sony has explicitly denied the rumors.

    Intel might end up designing the PS4 GPU, who knows. This story doesn't give us any more information than we had before either way, and the headline is certainly wrong in concluding otherwise.

    1. Re:Inquirer bullshit by qoncept · · Score: 3, Interesting
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  6. Slow down and consider the implications by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Remember that Intel has been willing to open its drivers and specifications. Any improvements they make to their graphics core (which, yes, is in need of improvement) will probably make their way to motherboard and laptop chipsets, and will have nice Open Source Linux drivers made for them. So, this is a good thing.

    1. Re:Slow down and consider the implications by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yes. The article you cited is from 2004. Good morning, Rip van Winkle! There have been a lot of changes. :-)

  7. Cell? by Major+Blud · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So after all the smack talking that Sony did about the power of Cell being untapped....they've decided to abandon it for the their next console? But if you listen to Sony, PS3 is a "10 year platform" anyways. This means that we wouldn't see the PS4 until at least 5-6 years from now. There is no telling what kind of processors would be available during that time frame. Do we really know if Larrabee would still be available by then? I think it's still way to early for Sony to start talking about specs for the PS4. Some people are bound to stop buying PS3s because it would just mean that the PS4 is right around the corner, and Sony knows this. They really can't afford to halt sales of the PS3 at their current selling rate.

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  8. on the merits, also unlikely by Trepidity · · Score: 2

    For what it's worth, on the merits this is also unlikely to be a genuine leak, even if we ignore it being from the Inquirer. They claim that they got this scoop from a "nice Sony engineering lady at CES". It's unlikely that a random Sony representative at CES would even be privy to such information, or it would've leaked by now. These sorts of decisions are generally kept pretty close to the chest, and don't leak very early unless someone fucks up. (When they do leak, it can lead to SEC investigations.)

  9. Re:Bizarre metaphor by Gizzmonic · · Score: 3, Insightful

    History: I put on my robe and judge's wig.

    --
    (-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
  10. Why Intel? Because IBM screwed Sony... by NullProg · · Score: 4, Informative

    From the article:
    How Sony inadvertently helped a competitor and lost position in the videogame market.

    Read here: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123069467545545011.html

    Enjoy,

    --
    It's just the normal noises in here.
    1. Re:Why Intel? Because IBM screwed Sony... by weffew... · · Score: 2, Informative

      The point of that WSJ piece is that the Xbox360 CPU and the PS3 CPU are the same because they both come from IBM?

      It's bull. The xbox360 CPU is a totally different architecture of PowerPC. I'm amazed you posted that.

      C

  11. Lucky for nVidia by argent · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Gee, over the past few years the news has been all about how doing a GPU for a console not only lost you money, but also pulled resources away from the profitable PC market, and the last few exchanges between ATI and nVidia holding first place in that market have been attributed to this.

    Intel needs any kind of GPU win, badly, and they're big enough and rich enough they can afford to lose money on each chip and make it up on volume.

    It's Sony I worry about, given how utterly appalling Intel GPUs have traditionally been.

    So I gotta wonder, why do you think nVidia is worried about this?

  12. Larrabee doesn't exist, yet by Trepidity · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's kind of weird to take Larrabee as evidence of Intel having successfully produced a GPU, since they still haven't produced it, despite years of hype. It might turn out to be as excellent as they claim. It might turn out to be as excellent as revolutionary as their last revolutionary new architecture, Itanium.

  13. Console timing strategy by CopaceticOpus · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm expecting to see the PS4 come out at least 3 years after the Xbox3. For one thing, the PS3 has technical advantages over the 360 which should give it more legs. Sony designed the PS3 with a target of a ten year lifespan.

    Also, Sony is really stinging from the cost of trying to compete with a same-generation Xbox. They should be able to hit a sweet spot by spacing their machine a half a generation away. When the Xbox3 is released, Sony can drop their PS3 prices to very low levels, and capture the large, budget-minded segment of the market. After 3 years, once the Xbox3's newness has worn off, Sony can release a system which is technically unmatched, and which Microsoft won't be able to respond to for another 2-3 years.

    Anyway, that's what I'd do if I ran Sony. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

  14. What IDIOCY! by seebs · · Score: 4, Informative

    No, not the article.

    The editor.

    First off, Sony denied this already -- yesterday . So this isn't news, and it's already-rejected news.

    Secondly, what kind of idiot links to the Inquirer as a source? Remember, they're the ones who posted the article claiming the PS3 was "slow and broken" because they didn't understand a memory bandwidth chart.

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