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Palm Pulls the Plug On Palm OS
BobB-nw writes to tell us that Palm has decided to kill their PalmOS operating system and is instead betting their future on a still mostly unknown Palm webOS. Very little is known about the new Palm webOS, but it will supposedly support HTML5 and enable a local data store so that applications can be used both online and off. All of this is rolled into a Linux framework with a message bus based on JSON. Will be interesting to see where they take it.
Worst. API. Ever. EVAR!
Bad enough that they renamed standard library functions. They also changed the order of arguments to those functions.
Windows PocketPC, meanwhile, was programmable using the same languages and toolchain as regular Windows.
Best Slashdot Co
I have used palm OS for almost ten years.
Rest in Peace my friend, you will be missed.
Is this going to be a brand-new start? Didn't they buy Be a few years ago to build their new OS versions around BeOS?
Um, their killing their old OS in favor of the one which runs on the Pre.
Is it just me, or has Palm fallen flat on its face every time they have something that could be big (except when they debuted the palm pilot)?
They used to have so much caché, but every time I hear what sounds like good news it just vanishes.
Why do people keep supporting this company if they can't get their act together? Do they offer a magical pony with every purchase that no one is telling me about?
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JSON isn't inherently insecure, it's just a method of delimiting data. Running JSON through an eval is insecure, but there are drafts for safer implementations (stringify and parse, as well as a native JSON type in JavaScript iirc). That said, always verify your data.
Depends on if you're including json as a script tag with the source to a host different than the one that loaded the original document or if you're retrieving json from an XMLHTTPRequest. The latter is sandboxed to the original document's host.
"If they have both, tell them we use Linux. And if they have that, tell them the computers are down." -Dave Chapelle
Probably because of confusion? Palm and PalmOS have gone together (and make sense together). Now they introduce a new device running a new OS. Next Palm announces the death of PalmOS. Unless you're techie enough to know that the Pre runs "WebOS" and not "PalmOS", it would appear that Palm is abandoning their OS.
Anyhow, I think it realy means Palm is abandoning PalmOS. PalmOS is maintained by Access and is part of the Access Linux Platform nowadays... and Access has a nice VM to run PalmOS on the Nokia tablets. Great for those of us stuck with some irreplacable PalmOS apps. (And while there's probably a billion replacements for them, they lack stuff like the speed or other things...).
They had their chance when they bought all of the rights to BeOS. They could have taken the kernel and a few components and built a new OS on top of that, back before Blackberry and Apple were huge players in this market. Now, this comes along as a me-too product that will probably have very poor performance (a web-based approach on hardware too slow to run something like a V8 or Gecko-style JS engine?!)
Worst of all for Palm, they could have released most of the code to BeOS under the GPL, let others develop it, and that would have had the effect of crushing a lot of their competition from Microsoft.
In case you hadn't heard, the new Palm WebOs is creating quite a buzz that Palm may finally be back...
I started with WinCE (on a Casiopia) and stayed through 2 revisions despite the crashes, slowness, and rapid battery drain. I switched to a Palm III (clone actually - TRG Pro) and have had 3 Palm devices since then (currently a Centro). I prefer Palm's calendar and contact database to the alternatives. My Palm currently has about nine thousand contacts in the database. Am I going to be able to use the WebOS when there's no wireless data connectivity? I don't think so. Can Palm ensure the security of my data while using WebOS? I don't think so. What happened to the rumored port of PalmOS to Linux? I've been waiting for that for 3 years now. Since they are abandoning the platform, is it for sale? Are they going to open source it? I would not like to see it die.
You're half there.
Access owned PalmOS, and in fact PalmOS was killed in late 2005 when Access ceased development and moved to the Linux-based ALP (Access Linux Platform).
This announcement is actually just Palm admitting that they can't afford to release any more hardware that uses an OS that's been dead for nearly 4 years.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
"Why would you comment when you obviously have no understanding of what the company in the story produces?"
I guess you didn't noticed that is more of a question than a comment.
"It doesn't make sense to use Android, and have to pay licensing on a product that they don't own when they have been around long enough to know what works and what their customers want."
Huh? Pay licensing for what? The platform Android is open source.
"If they have both, tell them we use Linux. And if they have that, tell them the computers are down." -Dave Chapelle
First off, Palm don't own PalmOS. It's owned by Access, who bought PalmSource.
Secondly, PalmOS's plug was pulled back in 2005, when Access announced no further development work would be done on it.
Thirdly, Palm didn't *decide* to pull the plug; their license from Access to ship new PalmOS devices expired, so they have no choice.
I wrote about all this back in 2005 when the news went around. I guess everyone's forgotten.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Apple's so-called "API" consisted of a keynote where they recommend making web pages that looked like native iPhone apps, but ran over the Internet in Mobile Safari. Palm's API is web-based, but the HTML/CSS/JavaScript will be stored and executed on the device, and JavaScript will be extended with hooks into phone-specific functionality. The difference is apples (no pun intended) to oranges.
Errors should hurt, or you'll keep making them.
I was one of those people saying it wouldn't be enough. And I still do think it's not enough for some things.
:)
Making a 3D game and using hardware openGL acceleration is tough to do in with HTML5
I just meant that it's a nice option to have to build some applications. It also allows to make things somewhat cross platform with PhoneGap ( http://phonegap.com/ ) because things like GPS and motion sensors are already abstracted and the implementation to another webkit device wouldn't be difficult.
"If they have both, tell them we use Linux. And if they have that, tell them the computers are down." -Dave Chapelle
Actually that button stopped working on my TX. I took it to bits, resoldered the dry joint and glued the switch to the PCB which is what Palm should have done in the first place rather than relying on the solder joint for a button that is pressed 20 times a day.
Wrong.
WebOs apps run on the actual device and are native to the device (the apps just use Javascript and HTML as their "language"). Apple originally proposed "apps" that were actually web pages formatted to look nicely (and have a bit more functionality) when viewed on the iPhone. However, they were still web sites that had no real access to the hardware of the viewer. WebOs apps will have access to the hardware layer, run locally, etc...
I am using a Zodiac 2 now, and have a TX in storage if the Zod dies, but I am wondering what options exist for moving/using my data on other platforms?
I know Access has sold their ALP platform to a couple companies, it's on at least one digital camera, too. They also put out a PalmOS compatible layer for the Nokia internet tablets.
I think there is a company that emulates the basic built-in apps on WinCE and iPhone/iPod Touch. Haven't heard great things about that.
Are there other options out there?
All opinions expressed herein are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled.
"While I don't see any appeal to JSON"...
I've been writing XML based ajax apps for some time now, but I understand the appeal of JSON.
It's not the smaller document size. The standard XML header is only about 35 bytes and you can make your tags as small as you like.
It's not the speed of parsing. The XML DOM parsing is done natively and quickly using xmlHttpRequest.responseXML.documentElement.
I think the appeal is the easy of getting started with development.
With an XML DOM you can use or build an API to handle the client side traversal of the DOM to get at the elements your page is interested in. Or you can manually iterate through the DOM elements in javascript looking for what you want.
With json, your objects are there ready to use in javascript in the structure that you built on the server.
"If they have both, tell them we use Linux. And if they have that, tell them the computers are down." -Dave Chapelle
I used to get 5 mod points per "round". I typically 15 mod points at a time these days. I'm guessing my positive karma and semi-long (~5 years I think?) history on Slashdot is the reason for that. In any case, they definitely give out more than 3 mod points at a time to many people.
Android is open source.
The parts that cost money are the proprietary hardware drivers and media codecs and things like that, but that's not free for any platform.
"If they have both, tell them we use Linux. And if they have that, tell them the computers are down." -Dave Chapelle
IF they'd kept the original PalmOS model and followed it to cheaper devices you'd be seeing Palms instead of Ti graphing calculators as the standard handheld for schoolkids by now... which would have translated into massive sales as the kids grew up. But Palm decided they HAD to go head to head against the Pocket PC, and threw away most of the advantages of the small, tight, lightweight Palm OS while keeping most of its disadvantages with PalmOS 5.
As a couple of others at this thread level, I'm a devout Palm user. Actually, I've just bought a Treo 680 (competently refurbished of course) -- "just" as in "it it's still in the mail".
I've been using Palm PDAs for most of a decade, starting with a Palm III. My two beloved T3's are currently on their last legs; these things are nothing short of fantastic, keeping my mind and life functioning, but no matter how one cares for them they can only be expected to last for so long (which is why I'm upgrading to a Treo).
On a related note, my brother has been using Psion Series5's for 13 years -- and he still thinks they're the best things out there, although he recently threw in the towel and bought an iPhone.
It's such a shame that consumer electronics seems to be so ephemeral, it always has been. It means that the junk piles up on the landfill quickly, and it also means that the quality stuff is simply out of support long before the hardware is worn out.
I say "seems to be", because few people realise --truly, consciously-- that one's gear does not need to change if one's needs don't. Granted, for most (young) people it's at least as much about the fashion statement as the functionality, and so they buy into the ephemerality. Meanwhile, the stalwarts who cherish their devices for their usefulness quickly appear to be dinosaurs, as not keeping with the times.
I know that this Mac-like OS transition was necessary for Palm in order to be truly free to innovate, and I wish them luck, if for nothing else the market players need diversity to keep each other on their toes. I'm sure they're nervous about this gamble of leaving behind literally tens of thousands of 3rd-party applications; I know we are still many, many users out there who are -- even if we're being drowned out by others who don't feel the same.
What am I trying to say? I wish Palm luck with their new OS and device, and I hope they get to survive on that account. But I also hope that the PalmOS community survives, for one does not rule out the other, and the old tools will not suddenly, lose their usefulness.
"Good news, everyone!"
"Is that perception incorrect?"
Pretty much yes.
It all depends on you deciding to trust the JSON you get and eval-ing it.
If you can't trust the source, you should parse it using a safe parser.
http://www.dieblinkenlights.com
Actually, the monopoly was killed, from one end, by a company leveraging another monopoly to extend into the PDA segment.
From the other direction came Symbian with Nokia and Sony Ericsson and pretty much every telco on the planet.
Really, they had little chance.
http://www.dieblinkenlights.com
Is that it took them this long to do it. Palm has been selling devices running windows for how many years now? I was surprised when I recently saw a (new) Palm device for sale that was actually running Palm OS.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Palm failed because they performed poorly as a company, not because there is some weak market force that works to break up monopolies...
This author takes full ownership and responsibility for the unpopular opinions outlined above.
copy&paste?
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Go for weeks without a charge. Graffiti.
Most importantly: Can be used without a contract.
--- Do you believe in the day?
I was one of those people saying it wouldn't be enough. And I still do think it's not enough for some things.
Making a 3D game and using hardware openGL acceleration is tough to do in with HTML5 :)
Don't be ridiculous! You don't use HTML for that... That's what Javascript is there for!
Bow-ties are cool.
The API reminded me of the early Mac OS API. Everything was a handle, the screen-manipulation and string functions were similar, and the case convention was the same.
i'd hit it so hard, if you pulled me out you'd be the king of britain [bash.org]
Who knows where Be's intellectual property ended up.
According to the few rumours I've read on the web, small bits of Be where used in the multimedia stack of Palm Garnet (the only component of the OS which was multitasking).
The rest remained unused.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
I still don't have a replacement for the PalmOS application together with the antenna to measure the DECT field strength in the environment. I'm using it all the time to plan a DECT roll out and to define the mount points for the DECT base stations.
Making a 3D game and using hardware openGL acceleration is tough to do in with HTML5 :)
Today, probably. Tomorrow, not so much. From HTML5 draft, section on the CANVAS element:
"A future version of this specification will probably define a 3d context (probably based on the OpenGL ES API)."
So it looks like DN4E will be written in JavaScript.