Second Android-Based Phone Announced

Rob Lazzurs writes "The second 'Google phone' has been announced. While this does from the first look seem like a nice device, I know I would miss the keyboard. However, I would expect given the issues with the first device, the question on most G1 users lips will be 'Is the battery life any better?'" Update: 02/17 14:06 GMT by T : Reader Andrew Lim adds a link to CNet UK's hands-on pictures of HTC Magic including pictures of it next to a G1. Also on the upcoming cell phone front, reader Jack Spine writes "Dell is to launch a smartphone, according to AT&T chief Ralph de la Vega. Speaking at a Mobile World Congress panel discussion with Steve Ballmer, de la Vega said 'Dell announced they're entering the smartphone market,' — a bit of a slip, because Dell hasn't, yet." Update: 02/17 16:07 GMT by T : Now, according to Engadget, de la Vega says he was misquoted.

Comments

lack of keyboard

[crimperman]

Yeah that's a problem. I liked the G! in principle but every time I picked one i felt like it was going to break in minds. This one will by nature feel more solide (less moving parts) but lack of keyboard is a bit of an issue for me.

Not sure about the proprietary headphone jack either

Re:lack of keyboard

[dotancohen]

Can't you connect a bluetooth keyboard to an Android device?

Re:lack of keyboard

[Anonymous Coward]

but every time I picked one i felt like it was going to break in minds

Uri Geller? Is that you?

(the keyboard is a real advantage of the g1. Whatever my next android phone is, it'll have one too)

Re:lack of keyboard

[jellomizer]

I never got this Cellphone Keyboard obsession thing. Even ones with real keyboards they are just good for typing short messages, really small buttons makes it hard to type. At least with the touch screen the keys are actually a bit bigger as you can switch keyboards for what you are typing. But for the most part the type of stuff you need on a smart phone is Point and Click. When you are texting you only write short bursts. The need of a real keyboard isn't that big of a deal, much like people who complained when we went from the Dial phone to the Touch pad. The Dial Phones had great feed back, the feeling of the resistance of the dial, the arch motion your finger was made to do. The feeling it touching the stopper. The sound of it winding up and winding back with the gentile clicks of it puling the number over the line. But still TouchTone Phones took over as they were more efficient, and allowed for future upgrades, in the short term the people switching from Dial to Touchtone were less efficient as they had to hunt down numbers in a different pattern. But in time it picked up. I think the same thing will happen with touch screens. The feeling of pressing the key for a response will not be a major concern in the future.

Re:lack of keyboard

[limaxray]

You must not have had to deal with both types of phones for an extended period of time - I said the same thing you did until I got a phone with a real keyboard, and now I will never go back. The novelty of a touch keyboard wears off very quickly when you have to do real work sending emails, managing servers, etc. It's just really nice not to have to actually look at the keyboard.

Re:lack of keyboard

[BrokenHalo]

Even ones with real keyboards they are just good for typing short messages, really small buttons makes it hard to type. At least with the touch screen the keys are actually a bit bigger as you can switch keyboards for what you are typing.

I'm with you on that. I'm not convinced by the iPhone for my needs (making calls, SMSs and occasional browsing/email) since if I want to spend much time browsing or typing, I'll use my laptop or desktop machine. The new Android device looks like it might fit my usage a bit better.

My reaction to the first Android phone was that it is so bulky, I would never want it in my pocket.

Incidentally, if I have not misunderstood the pics in TFA, I think it might be a better idea to make the device a non-reflective black colour. The iPhone is just too damn shiny, which highlights the slightest amount of wear and tear, and a silver finish isn't much better. I currently use a Motorola Razr2 V9 which is also excessively shiny on the front, but has a matt finish on the back. For all its slimness, this device has the advantage of being built incredibly strongly, and I suspect it will probably outlast all my friends' iPhones...

Re:lack of keyboard

[Zerth]

I didn't think I'd ever like a touchscreen keyboard until my wife got me a Blackberry Storm. It still sucks compared to an IBM keyboard(what doesn't) and I can't type on it without looking at it, but the physical switch screen beats any other phone-sized device I've used. I probably can't type as fast as someone who has been using a regular blackberry for awhile or has a Psion-style fold open keyboard, but after a month I'm typing fast enough for anything I'd do on a phone.

Well. Except for when I screwed up when calculating the mass a hogshead of plutonium would move in an earlier thread, but that's really the screen size, not the keyboard.

While it isn't F/OSS like Android, the dev license is only $20 bucks. So between that and the clickable screen, the Storm has pretty much killed my desire for an Android phone.

Re:lack of keyboard

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, I saw the video and it shows a keyboard (at around 1:05).

Re:lack of keyboard

[raitchison]

For people with big hands a touch screen keyboard (at least Apple's implementation of it) is pretty much unusable. Even if you are very accurate with your key presses you fingers will frequently hit another key. When I've used an iPhone I had to resort to typing with my pinky which is pretty awkward.

A well designed physical keyboard (IMO the G1 has one) even if the keys are smaller you can still put the pressure on the key you want to press and it and only it will be pressed. Other physical keyboards, such as those on the Pantech Duo they keys are too flat and they aren't any better than a virtual keyboard.

Re:lack of keyboard

[Anonymous Coward]

It's just really nice not to have to actually look at the keyboard.

I actually stopped looking at my iPhone keyboard while "typing" on it. I look at the output of my typing, of course, as I do while touch typing on a computer.

Which phone has a real keyboard that doesn't suck?

I wouldn't want to do any real work without my Model M keyboard :)

Re:lack of keyboard

[bsDaemon]

ditto on the blackberry storm. I'm actually using mine
To type this right now. Its a bit awkward by virtue of being a phone
But I do like the click screen.

Re:lack of keyboard

[Anonymous Coward]

It still sucks compared to an IBM keyboard(what doesn't) and I can't type on it without looking at it, but the physical switch screen beats any other phone-sized device I've used.

I too am a fan of the Model M (assume that's what you meant by "IBM keyboard"). I *can* type without looking on my iPhone. It takes some practice, but now I just look at the output of my typing like I do touch-typing on a computer.

Personally I found the Storm's push-to-click screen to be more of hindrance. I'm slower on it because pushing the screen down takes a large amount of time compared to the quick tap that the iPhone keys take. But then I only tried it briefly, maybe with time I would've liked it.

Re:lack of keyboard

[pcolaman]

What the fuck are you talking about? The G1 is the most solid smart phone I've ever had. Dropped this son of a bitch from 5 feet (obviously not on purpose) onto a sidewalk, and it handled it like a champ. Also, the most solid slider I've seen. I also don't get the whole battery complaint. If you leave the GPS and WiFi on, yeah it's going to be a battery hog. But I keep both off unless I need them and I get about 2-3 days of average use (internet and phone) before I have to charge it otherwise. And the fact that it charges through USB just makes it easy for me to charge it when I'm at work (family owned place that doesn't care what I hook up to the computer, lucky me).

If you want to legitimately complain about something about the G1, it's the horrible camera on the phone. The resolution is reasonable for a phone, but the performance on the camera (panning, zooming, focusing, etc) is the worst I've ever seen. Good thing I didn't buy it for the camera.

Re:lack of keyboard

[hattig]

The iPhone will auto-correct for fat fingering, but it takes a while to get used to it (i.e., to stop the reflex delete action). You only actually need to type in the close vicinity of the correct key, and this is not difficult unless you lost your hands in an industrial accident and now have to type with the stub of your arm.

Other solutions involve plastic surgery to create pointier nubs on your thumbs.

Re:lack of keyboard

[pcolaman]

The mandatory blackberry data plan that most carriers require has pretty much killed my desire for a Blackberry. My G1 unlimited data plan is $25 a month. I got it after switching from Verizon, who wanted me to pay like $50 a month on top of voice for the blackberry plan. I know this is not a big deal for someone using one that a company is paying for, but IMO the G1 is a better consumer smart phone, whereas the blackberry is a great corporate smart phone (especially since it's pretty much the best thing under the sun for exchange in a smart phone).

Re:lack of keyboard

[Zerth]

Ouch, you're getting screwed, or I have a very different plan. Did you accidently get the corporate plan, or the tethering plan? My data plan, through Verizon, is only $30.

Re:lack of keyboard

[maxume]

I can't make myself believe that bluetooth keyboard is worth owning.

Re:lack of keyboard

[GooberToo]

I never got this Cellphone Keyboard obsession thing. Even ones with real keyboards they are just good for typing short messages, really small buttons makes it hard to type.

I assume you've never actually used one. That "really hard to [type]", keyboard is far more efficient, faster to use, and less error prone than the on-screen variants. And as a bonus, you're not surrendering huge chunks of screen real-estate to support a clunky, non-tactile, error-prone, slow keyboard.

Any smart phone which does not have a real keyboard is deficient IMO. Again, IMO, this is a classic trade off between utilitarian function and stylish fashion. The iPhone is an 8-inch stiletto. The G1 is a running shoe. For some, it's all about function. For others its all about style. To each his own.

Re:lack of keyboard

[Zerth]

I thought the click screen was stupid when I saw it, but while it might be slower than a regular touchscreen, it solves the one thing I hate about them: no key travel.

While other touch phones do allow you to select without activating by activating on finger up or on double tap, I also like that I can't "accidently" click something.

Oh, and being able to cut& paste, as well as select multiple messages by using two fingers(technically it can do multi-touch, just not any of the gestures Apple patented).

Re:lack of keyboard

[GooberToo]

My reaction to the first Android phone was that it is so bulky

I never understand these statements. I added armor to my phone which considerably bulks it up in addition to protecting it. The bulked up size actually fits my hand. On the other hand, hehe, my G1 fits my wife's hands just about right. And with the added armour, its equally comfortable for her.

Unless you're a teenage girl or have really effeminate, child-like hands, the iPhone and really, the only slightly larger G1, is too small in its native form. I can't tell you how many times I've almost dropped my G1 because it is too small. With the armour added, its just about the right size. Unless you have child sized hands, or are packing it to sneak it into prison, I simply don't understand these comments about smart phone size.

Re:lack of keyboard

[bigdadro]

I hope T-mobile launches a few more Android based phones and becomes the defacto Android vendor. I've had services with all carriers and so far they have been my favorite. They are cheap, don't lock the phones down as much as Verizon or AT&T and the coverage is decent.

I switched from a Blackberry w/Data Plan on Verizon to a G1 on T-mobile and my phone bill was literally cut in half.

Re:lack of keyboard

[kaizendojo]

So glad I am not the only one. I had a Samsung i760 that became problematic for different reasons, but the main reason I ended up returning it for a replacement was because the touch screen went off axis and could not be recalibrated. Without the use of the on screen keyboard, I was forced to use the slide out keyboard and strange as it might sound to some, it cut done my productivity by 70-75%.

Give me a good on screen keyboard and a thinner phone, thanks. BTW - Vito Zoom Board makes the on-screen keyboard infinitely easier to use; I highly recommend looking into it.

Re:lack of keyboard

[f1vlad]

I just switched to G1 from iPhone about a week ago, and I had very same problem with it before, in fact discussed here on slashdot with other users why I don't like G1 -- It appeared to be very fragile :) well I was wrong. I am quite like G1 now, and believe it or not qwerty has grown on me. However if a super thin android phone comes out, I'll be all over it. G2 is still not that good looking.

Re:lack of keyboard

[Phisbut]

The iPhone will auto-correct for fat fingering, but it takes a while to get used to it

It will auto-correct only if you are writing in human language form. When using some applications, such as a SSH terminal, and typing either commands or filename, auto-correction is useless.

Re:lack of keyboard

[hoooocheymomma]

Excellent points. I was going to mod you up, but my effeminate, child-like hands couldn't push the mouse buttons down hard enough...


Well, that and I don't have any mod points...

Re:lack of keyboard

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm 6'4" and weigh 350lbs. I have zero problem typing on the iPhone. Took me a few days to get used to it, but now its no problem, and I use my thumbs to do the typing too. I'm as fast as I was with my Moto Q or blakberry 8830, actually more so.

Re:lack of keyboard

[Em Ellel]

I never got this Cellphone Keyboard obsession thing. Even ones with real keyboards they are just good for typing short messages, really small buttons makes it hard to type.

Which phone has a real keyboard that doesn't suck?

While there are a lot of other things, both good and bad, that can be said about the Treos - the one thing I really miss from switching to iPhone (I mean, besides being able to use my phone without having pen and paper handy) - is the keyboard. Compare to iPhone, it was awesome. I could actually type what I wanted to say and not worry about hitting the right button or if the phone magically decided that its not what I wanted to say anyway. And, having real buttons, I could launch any one of about 30 apps and speed dials in seconds instead of iPhone's minutes... and it did not crash every few minutes... damn it, I miss my Treo....:-(

-Em

Re:lack of keyboard

[joggle]

Exactly. As for myself I will never own another smart phone unless that phone has a keyboard. It's just impossible to do any ssh without one and while I usually have my laptop it can be a pain to lug around whereas having access to a small terminal with an internet connection anywhere I go is extremely useful.

Re:lack of keyboard

[darrylo]

Two things:

• The current design trend is for smaller and thinner devices. You better get used to it. :-(
• I agree that the iPhone can easily slip out of one's hand. However, adding non-slip strips to the sides and back of the iPhone significantly changes the feel. I'm sure there are others, but I happen to use some by eGrips:

  http://secure.egrips.com/product_info.php?cPath=11&products_id=550200

  Note that the above is a "universal set", and not the one tailored for an iPhone. I happen to like the thin strips; they really help with stability when applied to the sides of the iPhone. Besides, the universal set is cheaper.

Re:lack of keyboard

[rickb928]

Half the ease of use of a touch screen keyboard is, IMHO, in the software.

I use the Steel browser on my G1 in preference to the standard browser (eat it, Google, I want my iGoogle page MY way, you evil uncaring dictatorial bastards!), and the on-screen keyboard in the first rev was weak and difficult. I mistyped a lot.

The recent update changed the onscreen keyboard just enough that it is almost more accurate for me than the hard keys. And I do not have small fingers, nor am I very accurate. My typing sucks. All the change was a version. The screen is the same.

And I echo the sentiment that the G1 is robust. It may feel floppy, but it's doing everything I want it to do, suffers falls, and is as tough as my old 7105t. I put a skin on it to preserve the bronze finish.

Now to find a way to enhance the keyboard lighting, which is beyond useless on bronze and white G1s.

A side note (as if I didn' already drift OT), but the release date for the Vodaphone G2 is not good news. We G1 users are dying for Cupcake to solve some problems, add A2DP, and generally enhance the phone. We won't see Cupcake before the G2 release, I bet, and I didn't see detailed specs on the G2, so I dunno if A2DP will make it in. If the G2 doesn't get it, I fear it is doomed and the BT stack will be forever incomplete. I'm not so hopeful as I once was. Notice I'm not buying a set of BT stereo headphones?

Re:lack of keyboard

[YouWantFriesWithThat]

quick question?

i was strongly considering this phone until 5 minutes ago when i saw that there was no 3G coverage where i live. how slow is the EDGE/GPRS on this thing? it looks like i will not ever see a 3G network with it if i buy one...damn

Re:lack of keyboard

[hattig]

Good point. I hope those applications let you use the landscape keyboard option.

Re:lack of keyboard

[smilindog2000]

I guess I agree with you there, though I miss my old iPhone. My G1 seems like a Model T in comparison hardware-wise, but I don't think I can go back to the no-keyboard situation. My old eyes just don't work well enough to find those small keys.

I looked at all the photos of the new phone. Here's some insights from a G1 owner:

- The screen is *exactly* the same model. It's nice, but only 2.5". Every time I hold an iPhone, what really strikes me is that huge 3.5" screen.
- They *still* don't have a headset jack. This is possibly the dumbest lack of a feature ever in a smart phone, and they kept it! The non-standard headphones HTC ships suck, you have to have a bulky dongle to use anything else, and you can't charge while listening to music. Sucks, sucks, sucks!
- The camera lens appears larger, possibly meaning that HTC decided not to ruin all photos with a crap lens like on the G1. Of course, it could just be the same lens with a new style case.
- Being HTC, there's no way this phone has a bigger battery than the G1, and battery life will suck.
- The slot for the speaker looks identical the the G1. On the G1, it fills up with lint, and you can't hear calls when there's background noise, like while driving or at a restaurant (much to the pleasure of everyone else).

Until someone fixes the damned headphone issue, the speaker, the camera, and increases the screen size on an Android phone, I'll stick with my crappy G1.

Re:lack of keyboard

[joshtheitguy]

Can't you connect a bluetooth keyboard to an Android device?

No, I've tried you can pair the keyboard but you cannot use it.

Re:lack of keyboard

[PitaBred]

my Moto Q or blakberry 8830, actually more so.

That's not really saying a lot...

Re:lack of keyboard

[joggle]

It's possible to charge while listening to music, you just have to buy an adapter. I bought one of these so that I could listen to music during a long road trip.

The adapter is here: http://store.androidcommunity.com/content/accessories/11-176--4401.htm

At $16 it's not too bad a price and it also can replace that annoying dongle you have to use to hook up headphones.

Re:lack of keyboard

[pcolaman]

Don't know where you live, perhaps they price it out cheaper there, but if you use my zip code and try to price out a blackberry and look at the data plan, the only option is $49.99. And this is off of the general verizonwireless.com site, not the corporate site. Perhaps you are getting a partner discount.

Re:lack of keyboard

[pcolaman]

Honestly, performance in EDGE (I have no 3G either) is pretty reasonable. Granted, sites like ESPN take a minute or so to pull up, but google searches and non-graphic intensive stuff like mobile portals and text-based sites are fine. Honestly I always would like faster, but the other day I did a google voice search (yeah, voice search, and it actually freakin' works) for a deli sandwich place at a red light and got the phone number and dialed (by tapping on the phone number on the webpage) before the light went green.

Re:lack of keyboard

[dotancohen]

Can't you connect a bluetooth keyboard to an Android device?

No, I've tried you can pair the keyboard but you cannot use it.

Well that fucking sucks balls now, doesn't it?

Re:lack of keyboard

[YouWantFriesWithThat]

thanks for the info. i have played around with the 1st gen. iphone on EDGE and it wasn't too slow on most sites (even watching vids on youtube), but heard horror stories about some phones having very slow performance on EDGE.

i realized today that by switching to T-mobile i could add unlimited data to what i get from Verizon and pay the same amount per month. was hoping for 3G, but maybe i will take the leap. i think that they have demo models turned on so i will be able to test drive it...

anything else a potential buyer should consider?

Re:lack of keyboard

[Cederic]

No. It wont fit in my pocket, unlike the phone with built-in keyboard.

Re:lack of keyboard

[Zerth]

Maybe rates have gone up to pay for their buy 1 get 1 promo. The cheapest data rate I could see now in my area is 39.99 addtl for data or 49.99 if you just get the data, no voice.

It's a personal phone, so no discounts other than it's a family plan, so the voice part is cheaper, but that hasn't changed from back when I had a regular phone. On the other hand, I live in the middle of nowhere.

Re:lack of keyboard

[Cederic]

- The screen is *exactly* the same model. It's nice, but only 2.5". Every time I hold an iPhone, what really strikes me is that huge 3.5" screen.

The screen is smaller, but the resolution is the same.

Personally I think that's an improvement. Smaller pixels, greater information density, no loss of text on-screen.

I can see how that would be an issue for people that aren't as short-sighted as me though.

Re:lack of keyboard

[patniemeyer]

It's a matter of taste... I had exactly the opposite experience. Moving from Palms with chicklet keys to the iPhone took a little getting used to, but I'd never go back. With touch you get bigger buttons that adapt to what you're doing and you don't take any real estate away from the screen.

I have an ssh app for the iPhone that I use to check in on servers... It puts up a semi-transparent keyboard over the screen so that I can type and read at the same time. There are advantages to "soft" keyboards.

Re:lack of keyboard

[pcolaman]

anything else a potential buyer should consider?

Well, other than the camera on the phone sucking like a Dyson, the available software for the phone is starting to get reasonable (still a ways off from being at the level of the software available for the iPhone currently) and there is no soft keyboard yet (although it will be included in an OTA in the near future). Also, if you rely on having Exchange support on your phone, it's not ready yet (Aardvark is going to be released as a program that will give Exchange support for the G1 but it is in beta at the moment). As a consumer smart phone it's great, especially considering the APIs to develop for the platform are easy to work with (Java APIs). As a corporate smart phone, it still has some work to be done (likely that a future phone, rather than the G1, will be developed with the corporate user in mind). Oh yeah, almost forgot, no 3.5" mic jack, but it comes with an adapter that connects to the USB slot. The problem is this uses up that slot, although you can buy an adapter that does this and gives you a USB connector to hook up to.

Re:lack of keyboard

[pcolaman]

The prices do fluctuate from area to area, and it's possible that in your area, Verizon just can't expect to make more on the plan than 39.99. I'm sure I can get a discount on that rate (wife works for a hospital that is a partner with Verizon) but even with that, up until the storm I wasn't even that thrilled with the selection of smart phones that they carry. I had no intention of buying the iPhone, so I decided to get the G1 and haven't regretted the decision yet.

Re:lack of keyboard

[GooberToo]

They *still* don't have a headset jack. This is possibly the dumbest lack of a feature ever in a smart phone, and they kept it! The non-standard headphones HTC ships suck, you have to have a bulky dongle to use anything else, and you can't charge while listening to music. Sucks, sucks, sucks!

They don't have one because it is not needed. They are smartly using USB for what its good for. You can charge, listen to music on a headset, and plug it into your computer all at the same time. No problem.

Being HTC, there's no way this phone has a bigger battery than the G1, and battery life will suck.

Doubtful. The images I've seen makes the battery look like its about 2x larger than what the G1 has. And they already have batteries available for the G1 which are only about 33% larger but yield 2x - 2.5x times increase in battery life. And, there are other batteries which are the same size which offer ~40%-50% increase in battery life. Remember, this unit doesn't have a keyboard so that drastically opens the door for a much larger battery. Also, this is a newer generation so I'll be surprised if its power consumption isn't lower. And, Android keeps getting better (especially device drivers) which also creates lots of room for more power efficiency. IMO, it is very unlikely power will be an issue with this unit.

Re:lack of keyboard

[GooberToo]

The current design trend is for smaller and thinner devices. You better get used to it. :-(

I understand. But this is a smart phone, not a toy. Smaller for a smart phone is stupid. What's the point of having a tool that is too small to use or even see. If you want something really tiny, get a phone as the notion is contrary to everything that makes sense about the smart phone concept. If you want a smart phone, make it big enough to use.

I guess the buying public would rather have something sleek looking to show off for the cool factor rather than something that is actually useful. That's hardly a surprise.

Re:lack of keyboard

[amRadioHed]

If you read a bit further to where he said "I would never want it in my pocket" you would understand maybe. I use my phone for a phone and if I can't carry it around comfortably in my pocket I don't want it.

Re:lack of keyboard

[darrylo]

I hate to say this, but you're really asking for something like a netbook (yeah, I know that's not what you want, but that's probably the closest you'll ever get). The small form factor of smartphones is going to limit their usefulness for many purposes -- one of which will be medium- to heavy-amounts of email. You may not like it, but most people seem to want "small, fits in pocket/purse" over many other things. Since they are the ones that keep the cellphone companies in business, guess what happens?

The iPhone, while far from perfect, really does a lot of jobs "acceptably well" for most people. Yes, it has a number of problems, and, yes, a lot of people don't like it, but the hard truth is that it's "good enough" (not perfect) for a whole lot more people.

Re:lack of keyboard

[Directrix1]

Why would you bet that? The release candidate is already available for downloading.

Re:lack of keyboard

[GooberToo]

I hate to say this, but you're really asking for something like a netbook

No, I really am not. There is not legitimate reason to make smart phones smaller. The form factor is the perfect size for what it provides. As its size gets smaller so does its usefulness. And in the end, if the device isn't useful, its nothing but an overpriced phone (notice no "smart" there) which I can show my friends so they can say, "gosh...neat....that's useless but cool...you paid how much?"

Re:lack of keyboard

[ncc74656]

The iPhone will auto-correct for fat fingering, but it takes a while to get used to it (i.e., to stop the reflex delete action).

It's about 50/50 on accuracy. IME, it always seems to turn "its" into "it's," even when "its" is correct in the given context. There are some other words I can't recall offhand that get "corrected" to something I don't want.

Re:lack of keyboard

[immcintosh]

I have to admit, my one complaint with it was the construction, contrary to your experience. For example, on mine, after a bit of use the screen started looking slightly crooked with respect to the keyboard when it was extended; having the slider secured only on one corner in the way it is... it does feel a little flimsy. Also that little trackball just doesn't feel like it will stay in ideal working condition for very long.

Re:lack of keyboard

[Arterion]

I guess it depends on the individual. I wouldn't want a smartphone with no tactile QWERTY keyboard. Then again, I do a lot more than send texts on my phone. I guess if you just use your phone as a phone, then the desire of a QWERTY keyboard wouldn't make much sense.

I do pretty much everything on my phone that I do on my computer. It's like my pocket-laptop. I have the HTC Touch Pro, and yes, it really works that well.

Re:lack of keyboard

[aurispector]

You nailed it right off the bat - the tactile feedback of an actual keyboard is a must for me but the headphone jack is a deal breaker - If I had any idea how crippled the G1 is with regard to music playback I would have preferred an IPhone - except the Iphone has no keyboard. I can't believe HTC/google didn't learn from the G1 and put in a fucking headphone jack. Is it really that difficult?

Re:lack of keyboard

[Zerth]

Ditto, I was waiting on a second gen Android phone.

I never particularly liked the regular blackberries, the screen was too small and I don't text that much. But the storm has twice the screen and since I got mine several other coworkers switched, so now the BBMessenger is somewhat handy.

The real plus is that the Storm is the first phone I've had where I didn't feel like Verizon was trying to rape my wallet, but that is because it is a blackberry(yay RIM) and not anything Verizon did. It's nice actually being able to transfer files to my phone or use the onboard GPS without paying Verizon for the privilege.

Re:lack of keyboard

[rickb928]

Cupcake is in the dev branch. it is just not ready for production. Yes you can check it out, but not everything works.

Re:lack of keyboard

[initialE]

Then get a treo, they're still on sale. Or a HP hw6915. Or a berry. All good stuff, all still there. Windows Mobile developers even know now to program for square screens as well as rectangular ones.

Re:lack of keyboard

[Thinboy00]

A physical keyboard is a more universal solution to that particular issue.

Re:lack of keyboard

[Thinboy00]

but not everything works.

Wait, something, somewhere, is broken? Stop the presses!!

Re:lack of keyboard

[Em Ellel]

Then get a treo, they're still on sale. Or a HP hw6915. Or a berry. All good stuff, all still there. Windows Mobile developers even know now to program for square screens as well as rectangular ones.

I might... Got a bit of an ego problem though, hard to justify ~$600 cost of the iPhone experiment just to go back to where I was in the first place - so I was waiting for Kogan Android phone to hit the streets, but that turned out to be vaporware (I know, shocking!) and now I am waiting for the Pre. I mean physical keyboard, AND it is capable of multi-tasking - what a radical concept, Apple should take note!!!

-Em

Re:lack of keyboard

[rickb928]

Oh, grow up.

The last post I saw from someone trying the Cupcake drop said many std. apps didn't work. It is still in dev, and not expected to be doing much. I haven't heard of an updated drop with much fixed, though I expeect to hear of progress by mid-March.

I'm not whining cause it's not finished already. I'm patiently waiting.

Re:lack of keyboard

[pcolaman]

I'll give you the trackball is flimsy, but if yours feels flimsy, you should get it exchanged. Mine is solid as a rock, and the slider is still in perfect shape after very heavy use (including getting played with by my 19 month old son who's, how shall I put this, not electronic friendly).

Re:lack of keyboard

[mgblst]

Bullshit, a real keyboard is harder with big fingers. At least with iPhone and others, it detects the center of your finger, and it is easy to move your finger.

Re:lack of keyboard

[BlackCreek]

I use my phone to take notes and to send messages, and I do that in 3 different languages.

Having to switch the language of the T9 input system is a pain. I very much doubt the iphone would also allow me switch languages (as they do text prediction and correction) that easily.

For a person like me, a full physical is the very best answer.

Re:lack of keyboard

[cyclomedia]

Personally I never got this Smartphone PDA thing...

I jest... All i really really want is a PSION Revo with wifi and a gig or so of storage, perfect for on-the-move emails, ssh-ing and even (no flash!) web browsing. But most importantly, and unlike every damned PDA made since 2001, it has a proper keyboard!

Re:lack of keyboard

[Anonymous Coward]

Universal ... if you speak and type English.

Re:lack of keyboard

[Anonymous Coward]

Meh. I have big hands; for comparison, I can palm a basketball and easily wave it around without it coming loose. The iPhone's keyboard is just fine.

Of course Dell is going to launch a smartphone

[Anonymous Coward]

Michael Dell is so jealous of Apple that he tries to copy them every chance he gets. Unfortunately for him, he's stuck with Microsoft and Windows.

At least HP are pushing forward, their custom Linux Distro really seems to ooze with style, unlike regular distros which seems bent on either copying the way Windows looks or being stuck in overdone visual crap land.

Re:Of course Dell is going to launch a smartphone

[dotancohen]

Michael Dell is so jealous of Apple that he tries to copy them every chance he gets. Unfortunately for him, he's stuck with Microsoft and Windows.

You do know that Michael Dell uses Ubuntu on three of his five personal computers, no? I don't know what he does with them, though.

Re:Of course Dell is going to launch a smartphone

[Yvan256]

I think the poster meant "he's stuck selling computers with Microsoft Windows".

Re:Of course Dell is going to launch a smartphone

[pcolaman]

Last I checked, Dell sells plenty of systems with Linux as well. So no, he's not stuck selling computers with Microsoft Windows.

Re:Of course Dell is going to launch a smartphone

[certain death]

Surfs Pr0n?

Re:Of course Dell is going to launch a smartphone

[Yvan256]

Microsoft is finally losing its grip on computer companies. Finally.

Re:Of course Dell is going to launch a smartphone

[pcolaman]

They'll have to do like any other company who has survived through serious market changes in any business, they'll need to adapt. I know it's a pipe dream, but I'd like to see them adapt a model that focuses on revenues from services and support and switches their platform to a FOSS. I'm not naive enough to think it'll happen, but if I was CEO, that's the direction I would move towards.

How many does that make?

[Goaway]

Isn't this something like the third "second Android phone" announced so far?

Re:How many does that make?

[TheCybernator]

Isn't this something like the third "second Android phone" announced so far?

Well, you know, they are all still in Beta.

Re:How many does that make?

[Aladrin]

The 'second' was actually cancelled, and is back on the drawing board.

I know, because I had preordered it. Due to exchange rates, I'm down $10 because of it.

I ended up with a G1 instead. I'm quite happy with it.

Samsung and several others have also announced their intention to create such a phone, and approximate dates of release, but have not showcased the phones.

Re:How many does that make?

[halcyon1234]

Yup. I'm waiting for the second third Android phone.

Re:How many does that make?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, you know, they are all still in Beta.

As one who has had this phone since it's US release...I will verify that it is still definitely in beta...I "traded up" my blackberry pearl for the full keyboard and open source of the G1...however the random reboots and need to be constantly charging have definitely soured my original optimism towards Android.

Until it's on general release I'm not interested.

[Anonymous Coward]

I've selected the best supplier for my usage and I'll be damned if I'm going to change.

Why not develop android for current gen phones?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wouldn't it be nice to release your Windows Mobile phone into the wild and forego the slow, limited and bloated user "experience"?
One wonders why Google only supports new hardware and not older hardware (eg. the millions of us who are forced to use Windows Mobile)...
 

Re:Why not develop android for current gen phones?

[Kentaree]

(eg. the millions of us who are forced to use Windows Mobile)...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but nobody is being forced to do anything. I use a Windows Mobile based phone out of choice. I'd gladly switch to an Android phone, but I understand nobody is going to make any money out of releasing an OS for a 5 year old phone, so I'll gladly buy a new one.

Re:Why not develop android for current gen phones?

[Hijacked Public]

Under Slashdot grammatical convention it is acceptable to use the word 'forced' to describe a person's employer assigning them a telephone they don't like.

Also, just to expand, if the digital version of a pop culture movie is released on iTunes exclusively, the convention allows a person to claim he is being 'forced' to use iTunes.

Re:Why not develop android for current gen phones?

[Anonymous Coward]

www.htc.com
2 brand spanking new phones. Wouldn't it be nice to have Android available for those 2?
Or any other phone for that matter that is not near 5 years old. eg. Diamond (the first version), or perhaps the Athena, or Kaiser or any HP or ASUS device or .. ad naseum.

Lots of PR and marketing... one phone looking like dog available in limited areas doesn't make for a competitor.
I am near saying "bullet, meet foot".

Sounds like Apple

[Dekortage]

FTA: "We are paying particular attention to style and design; I'm practically obsessed with it," said Patrick Chomet, global director of terminals for Vodafone Group.

Channeling Steve Jobs?

Also: "If the device hits an anticipated price point of between 99 and 199 euros, Ms Milenesi said it would be pitched at the broader phone market. "With that range of prices, it's not aimed at the same audience as, say, the iPhone, it's looking more at a broader appeal for people."

Hmm, how much cheaper than the iPhone is that really? Will people want to save a few euros and miss out on all the cool Apple vibe that iPhone owners magically acquire?

Re:Sounds like Apple

[BrokenHalo]

Channeling Steve Jobs?

You mean the thinnest CEO in the industry? ;-)

Re:Sounds like Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

FTA: "We are paying particular attention to style and design; I'm practically obsessed with it," said Patrick Chomet, global director of terminals for Vodafone Group.

Channeling Steve Jobs?

Also: "If the device hits an anticipated price point of between 99 and 199 euros, Ms Milenesi said it would be pitched at the broader phone market. "With that range of prices, it's not aimed at the same audience as, say, the iPhone, it's looking more at a broader appeal for people."

Hmm, how much cheaper than the iPhone is that really? Will people want to save a few euros and miss out on all the cool Apple vibe that iPhone owners magically acquire?

That cool Apple vibe of smugness and pretentiousness?

Re:Sounds like Apple

[pcolaman]

I was going to start railing on you until my sarcasm radar picked up a contact. Kudos.

Re:Sounds like Apple

[BlackCreek]

Hmm, how much cheaper than the iPhone is that really? Will people want to save a few euros and miss out on all the cool Apple vibe that iPhone owners magically acquire?

Oh the joys of acquiring self-esteem and social status through brand name identification...

Waiting for offline navigation software

[leromarinvit]

I'm still using my 4 year old Windows Mobile phone because nobody has yet released offline GPS software. Seriously, most new smartphones have built-in GPS, and nobody thinks about that? Google Maps is not an option because 3G is not available everywhere, and even where it is, it costs way too much. (No, flatrates don't count either, because I wouldn't need one otherwise.)

Same goes for the iPhone. Apple has its market locked up, but Google doesn't - so why are there no decent options?

Re:Waiting for offline navigation software

[dada21]

Google intends, and I agree with them, for wireless data access to be much cheaper, much faster, and much more readily available in the next 2-3 years.

Having offline maps is a huge storage consumer. Storage takes space, it takes up energy, and it requires updating. If everyone had to have 4GB of maps stored offline, times tens of millions of customers -- it's a great waste of space.

Google believe in client-server interfaces, as I do, because that IS the future. All we need is for data to get cheaper and more readily available. I travel internationally, constantly, and have 3G access practically everywhere. The BIGGEST problem for Google today is NOT bandwidth but battery. This is the Next Big Thing that Apple, Google, Dell, Sony, and practically every other mobile device manufacturer is chasing: huge battery life increases. Whoever gets there first will destroy the rest. One Ring to Rule Them All.

Sidenote/Off-topic
In the States, I pay about $120 a month for decent 3G access through my Cradlepoint using 2 3G cards for access from 2 providers (yes, I need backup access). In Europe, plusgsm works fine. In Asia, there are a variety of throw-away SIM cards available with decent enough data access in the major cities. So for $250 a month, I am covered internationally and don't need to carry around all the data that I can access quite simply online. I love my G1, and I can't wait for a better, larger-screened model (hint: Apple Newton-like).

For those who think that $250/month for 3G-ish access is ridiculous, consider this: I try to be available for work 12 hours per day, which is 3600 hours per year. I'm paying about 83 cents an hour to be available online. Toss that tiny number against what I charge per hour, and you can see it is a wise investment.

Re:Waiting for offline navigation software

[Nursie]

Still seems a lot, but I guess you've got roaming charges built in to that.

I get 3GB of 3G data a month for £7
But then I don't use it abroad.

Re:Waiting for offline navigation software

[leromarinvit]

I don't think the 2-3 year range is enough for availability. Yes, 3G works in most cities here, but what good is a navigation system that stops working once you get lost in the middle of nowhere?

Also, while $250 per month might be acceptable for you, it's not something the average consumer is willing to pay. Yet, GPS is most usefule in areas where you don't know your way around, i.e. abroad. If I only use it once or twice per year, I wouldn't even pay $25 per month for international roaming (and we're nowhere near that ATM). For the record, my current plan is €6 per month, which includes 25MB of data (and with GPRS only, I don't even use all of that).

Re:Waiting for offline navigation software

[Anonymous Coward]

Haven't you ever heard of Nokia?

Nokia S60 phones have wide range of GPS software that work offline. Nokia itself has Nokia MAPS application ( http://europe.nokia.com/maps ) that works both online and offline. If you are offline it uses preloaded maps from phones memory or from memory card. You can load these maps in your PC and then put them on the phone.

Other good software working in S60 is Wayfinder ( http://www.wayfinder.com/ ). Just go on to Google to find much more software for the S60.

Re:Waiting for offline navigation software

[CompMD]

Garmin-Asus demonstrated both the nuvifone G60 and nuvifone M20 at MWC. Perhaps you'd be interested in these.

Re:Waiting for offline navigation software

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you should look into the Garmin XT products. All you need is a WinMo smartphone with GPS and a microSD card slot.

Re:Waiting for offline navigation software

[jfanning]

All current Nokia S60 phones support offline usage of Nokia Maps application. Just download to the phone any of the regions you want beforehand and no network connection needed.

Re:Waiting for offline navigation software

[sticky_charris]

I find switching off 3G makes my smartphone's battery last much longer. Are you saying that accessing local memory (which is becoming cheaper and more plentiful by the day) uses more battery than downloading it all again and again for the same roads..? I a similar set of roads every day to work but always have the GPS on in case I forget to turn off the motorway in time. Local storage is far more practical. Igo UK maps take up little storage (micro SDHC devices can now hold 32Gb I think) and full worldwide maps still don't take up much space. A Tomtom or Igo like app is also a barrier for me getting an Android. I want to use maps her and abroad without worrying about dataplans and reception. Especially as it is always the middle of nowhere, no reception, no signpost areas that I seem to get lost in.

Need a keyboard?

[LordKaT]

Am I the last person on Earth to use a phone as - I don't know - a god damn phone?

Re:Need a keyboard?

[JonnyDomestik]

Yes. I believe you are.

Re:Need a keyboard?

[ChristofferC]

Nope, I am one of those weird people who still uses a 6 years old phone (Siemens C55). It does what I need it to do and it does it well.

Re:Need a keyboard?

[Leafheart]

Yes, yes you are. :D

Re:Need a keyboard?

[Hijacked Public]

What compels you to read smartphone submissions and their resulting discussion?

Re:Need a keyboard?

[rob1980]

Nope. But you're probably one of the few remaining people who haven't updated their definition of "phone" yet. ;)

Re:Need a keyboard?

[FrozenFOXX]

Am I the last person on Earth to use a phone as - I don't know - a god damn phone?

Nope, I use my G1 as a phone quite regularly. However, I see it more as a "communications device," rather than a phone.

I must admit, I've not had any problems with the battery life on the G1, especially after the last update or two (got mine with a rooted phone). Even with regular, fairly heavy (but not overly punishing) use I can go for over 24 hours without a charge which puts it between the iPhone and the BlackBerry Curve.

Re:Need a keyboard?

[junglee_iitk]

No! He isn't :)

I have been using it since 2004, and I love it... it has survived so many drops that I now I just throw it around.

And if you find it frustration, you can throw it at your boss ;)

Re:Need a keyboard?

[BrokenHalo]

No.

Incidentally, I used to use a recording of an old '60s British Post Office phone for my ringtone, but I got so much stick from the kids who had never heard a phone with a real bell, I gave it up...

Re:Need a keyboard?

[Zero__Kelvin]

I have always been a firm believer in the concept that cell phones are for placing and receiving phone calls. The term is used erroneously in the case of the G1. The G1 is NOT a cell phone. It is an Internet Enabled PDA based on Linux and FOSS software that is also capable of placing and receiving cell calls. It is a COMPUTER. I can write software for it, and even modify the OS itself. To compare a G1 to any cell phone, including the iPhone, is to compare Apples to Androids.

Re:Need a keyboard?

[mdm-adph]

As I imagine, everyone uses their smart phones as "just a god damn phone," as well as doing plenty else with it.

I really don't understand people and their problems with smartphones -- if you don't like it, don't use it. :\ No one's forcing you to use one.

Re:Need a keyboard?

[drinkypoo]

I'm not sure, but I know people probably old enough to be your parents who know what SMS is for. It's not their fault that you're nailed to your porch, shouting at kids to get off your lawn.

Two simple truths: Voice is not always the most efficient means of communication (especially in, say, a concert) and Only other cranky luddites are impressed by your whining. You can always count on ANY mobile phone story to be full of people crying about how a phone isn't a phone any more. There are plenty of cheap, crappy, featureless phones for you - so get off my lawn, already.

Re:Need a keyboard?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Am I the last person on Earth to use a phone as - I don't know - a god damn phone?

Do you have a problem with doing more with a device you're already paying a monthly fee for?

Re:Need a keyboard?

[Anonymous Coward]

Do Androids dream of organic Apples?

Re:Need a keyboard?

[LordVader717]

The are plenty of phones you can buy which don't do anything other than phone and write texts. They often have great battery life and cost as little as $30 unlocked.
I use a Nokia 1110i and it has been all I needed. But I still understand why people might want something more.

Re:Need a keyboard?

[_Sprocket_]

...and what's the deal with all these kids on my lawn, anyway?

Re:Need a keyboard?

[N1AK]

Am I the last person on Earth to use a phone as - I don't know - a god damn phone?

No. Just the only one reading this article that thinks anyone else cares.

Re:Need a keyboard?

[PitaBred]

Do you also not own a TV and tell everyone about it?

If you don't use a damn smartphone, why in the hell are you commenting on a story about it? Are you proud to be a semi-luddite or something? "I use a computer, but I'll be damned if I use a fancy phone!"

Re:Need a keyboard?

[lakeland]

I dunno.

How do you type in the name of the contact you want to ring without a keyboard? Dial charles by pressing:

1 1 1 3 3 1 7 7 7 5 5 5 3 3 7 7 7 7

No thanks, I'll stick to a keyboard for basic phone use.

Re:Need a keyboard?

[Cederic]

The twin ironies being that

- the phone does have a keyboard, it's just an onscreen soft keyboard rather than a physical one, and

- I don't use the physical keyboard to pick the contact I want to call anyway. I flick my finger down the screen and stop the scrolling contact list when the person I want comes on-screen. I only have 120 or so contacts, so it takes under 4 seconds to scroll, so while a keyboard would be slightly quicker it lacks the simple joy of flicking my finger to get a fast scroll speed.

Re:Need a keyboard?

[AmberBlackCat]

My mother uses a phone strictly for making and receiving phone calls. She's got the phone that came free when we did the "add a phone" plan. It does phone calls and text messages, and doesn't have bluetooth. It was free. She's having a better time with this one than the last one because she never accidentally presses the camera button or launches the web browser. That still happens with my phone on occasion. My last phone was worse, because when I had it in my purse the external "music" button would always start playing a song, and apparently Sprint requires you to connect to the internet to play mp3 music you have stored on a memory card.

What is it with the SVG clocks?

[dotancohen]

Does every dashboard / plasmoid / widget set need to have an SVG clock as it's be all end all feature? From Opera's pansy user-scriptable language, to Plasma (KDE 4), to Windows 7, to that computer named after a fruit all I see is SVG clocks. And you know what I think of when I see a large, round object with two hands across it? Goatse.

Re:What is it with the SVG clocks?

[Anonymous Coward]

And you know what I think of when I see a large, round object with two hands across it? Goatse.

You might be suffering from PTSD

Re:What is it with the SVG clocks?

[Zero__Kelvin]

"And you know what I think of when I see a large, round object with two hands across it? Goatse."

To be fair, you should point out that you also think of goatse on a regular basis, for no other reason than good old fashioned perversion. Anybody that thinks that the Analog clock is the be all end all feature of the G1 certainly isn't thinking about actually finding out anything about the G1. For example, many people might think that Google Maps in Street View, with the accelerometer changing your view position as you move is a bit cooler than the clock application. Personally, I like to log into my Linux box from the middle of the woods to check on a build using the connectbot. A lot of people would consider that to be slightly more cool than an Analog clock as well.

Re:What is it with the SVG clocks?

[Zantetsuken]

Because it's called Scalable Vector Graphics for a reason.

Widgets are popular right now, and having a graphics format that you can generally enlarge as much as you want without loosing much quality tends to help there, especially on large screens...

Re:What is it with the SVG clocks?

[dotancohen]

Personally, I like to log into my Linux box from the middle of the woods to check on a build using the connectbot. A lot of people would consider that to be slightly more cool than an Analog clock as well.

Then why isn't there an SSH client shown in the screenshot instead of that persistent SGV clock?

Re:What is it with the SVG clocks?

[Zero__Kelvin]

"Then why isn't there an SSH client shown in the screenshot instead of that persistent SGV clock?"

That is the most stupid question I have been asked in a very long time.

Re:What is it with the SVG clocks?

[dotancohen]

I know what SVG stands for. By why that clock all over the place. Go google for android screenshots. Analog SVG Clock. Now KDE 4 screenshots. Analog SVG Clock. Windows Vista / 7 screenshots. Analog SVG Clock. Opera widgets. Analog SVG Clock.

Re:What is it with the SVG clocks?

[dotancohen]

http://images.google.com/images?q=opera widgets
http://images.google.com/images?q=kde+4
http://images.google.com/images?q=windows 7
http://images.google.com/images?q=windows vista
http://images.google.com/images?q=google android

Count the damn clocks!

Re:What is it with the SVG clocks?

[Zero__Kelvin]

OMFG Batman!!! You discovered that a clock application is available on all of the platforms, and that Google is really cool and lets you find them! I see your point now. I've noticed that every computer I have used has an S key. What is it with the S key being the be all and end all of killer Keys????? Are you on drugs, drunk, or just jones'ing for another goatse moment?

Bacefook

[Anonymous Coward]

Does it come with a glossy Facebook icon on the main screen to make it appeal to the 'cool kids'?

More specs here...

[Anonymous Coward]

Some more details have emerged...

The HTC Magic is based on the Qualcomm MSM7201a chipset running at 528MHz. It has quadband GSM/GPRS/EDGE and dualband HSPA/WCDMA (900/2100MHz) for up to 7.2Mbps downlink and 2Mbps uplink speeds, network depending. In addition there's WiFi b/g, Bluetooth 2.0+EDR and HTC's own ExtUSB port which incorporates both a USB 2.0 connection and an audio jack (with an included adapter to use standard 3.5mm headsets).

Other specs include GPS - which works with Android's Google Maps and Street View - and a compass, plus a trackball with an enter button. All the usual Android apps are onboard, with the Magic having 512MB ROM and 192MB RAM. The smartphone measures 113 x 55 13.65mm and weighs 118.5g.

As for availability, the Vodafone HTC Magic will initially be available in Germany, Spain and the UK, as well as non-exclusively in Italy, and with the SFR network in France. No known pricing as yet, but given the nature of the European cellphone market we won't be surprised to see it free with a new contract.

Even with the new Android touch screen keyboard, the lack of physical buttons kinda sucks, IMO. Must make the phone cheaper tho.

Third, technically.

[jiteo]

There was the Kogan Agora, which looked pretty sweet until it got indefinitely delayed.

multi-touch

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it multi-touch? Or has the Evil Apple Overlord stopped that too? Boycott Apple! Buy open source products!

Re:multi-touch

[Anonymous Coward]

i would but... well... open sores sucks. i've seen better programs from fred fish for the amiga than i ever seen from modern open sores and linsux.

Android Warning

[Vandil X]

The first android was named "B4."

That means this one is "Lore!"

No, we just got sick and tired...

[Animaether]

...of pointing people to the myriad of mobile phones out there that -are- nothing but a phone because the response, invariably, is:
- but I do still want it to carry WiFi?
- but it doesn't have a color screen?
- can I can't run custom apps on it?
- does it have a bluetooth?
and so forth and so on.

If you really, really, really want a mobile phone that is 'just a mobile phone' plus the stuff you do want, just get one that does all that -and more-... and use your willpower to NOT use the parts you don't want to use*

I know, it's hard to resist the shiny once it's in your hands.

(* the only exception being workplaces that outright ban camera phones - luckily for those people, there are also a myriad of devices that do indeed have everything-but-a-camera, some of them even targeted especially at this particular audience.)

Re:No, we just got sick and tired...

[Dun Malg]

...of pointing people to the myriad of mobile phones out there that -are- nothing but a phone because the response, invariably, is: - but I do still want it to carry WiFi? - but it doesn't have a color screen? - can I can't run custom apps on it? - does it have a bluetooth? and so forth and so on.

Damn straight! I just went through this with my wife. She wanted a phone with a keyboard because everyone she works with uses text messaging while organizing events, so she got a Pantech Slate. She got the phone and got mad because it didn't do voice command dialing! Well yeah, it's a toy phone for teenagers. She then continued to gripe about not being able to find a phone with a keyboard and voice command that didn't have "all that crap I don't need". I was finally able to get it into her head that if she wanted sophisticated digital signal processing based voice command capability, she was going to have to buy a non-toy phone. Eventually I talked her into an HTC Excalibur, but not until after a lot of complaints. Of course now that she has it, she thinks it's great...

Still no standard 3.5mm headphone jack

[nkohler]

I refuse to carry around a "dongle" to be able to use a good set of IEMs.

Re:Still no standard 3.5mm headphone jack

[mdm-adph]

Exactly -- just hook up the dongle to your IEM's, and forget about it. Then, you're not carrying around a dongle with your phone, you're just carrying around your phone and your IEM's (which already have a dongle on them).

You have to carry them around anyway -- an additional 3 inches of dongle shouldn't matter to you, should it?

Re:Still no standard 3.5mm headphone jack

[JohnAllison]

But don't forget the second dongle if you want to charge your phone, and use a wired head set!

This is going to get oh so close to the charging regulation discussion from last night.

Re:Still no standard 3.5mm headphone jack

[mdm-adph]

Not familiar with that discussion. :P

My experience with smartphones is that pretty much _all_ of them use a standard mini-type USB connector to recharge -- something I always have plugged into my computer for use with tons of other stuff, anyway.

No headphone jack

[Ren.Tamek]

Hidden at the bottom of the article:

The HTC Magic has a proprietary headphone jack, and so will not accept many standard headphones.

No thanks, i'll wait for one with proper connectors.

Re:No headphone jack

[Tacvek]

HTC is the largest manufacture of smartphones, and they use an extended mini-USB B connector for headsets. So this is all not surprising. You will need to wait for an android phone not developed by HTC, or more likely for somebody to finish one of the ongoing unofficial android ports to existing phones.

O/T I know, but damn that picture gallery

[donkeyb]

I can't stand it when a page can't do a simple slide show correctly. Why does a site like cnet.com design a screen gallery so badly that the entire page has to reload to show the next picture?

openmoko

[OglinTatas]

freerunner can also run android, soon you will be able to buy one w/ android preinstalled

http://www.sdgsystems.com/

plus, the hardware is completely open

Re:openmoko

[drinkypoo]

Why do people still make tri-band GSM phones? The whole appeal of GSM is the compatibility.

Re:openmoko

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

openMoko is dead.

HCIHID driver

[DrYak]

In theory, the linux kernel and assorted bluez tools have the necessary drivers and tools to use HCI-HID devices.

In practice, I don't know if this is enabled in Android as sold on official operator-branded locked phones or if you'll be restricted only to hacker-friendly unlocked like those branded by Google (.. which by the way are subsidized by the operator of your choice in Switzerland. Yay!) or the Koolu (a brand which sells FIC FreeRunners with Android installed instead of OpenMoko).

Basic "smart" features often lacking

[Nerdposeur]

I really don't understand people and their problems with smartphones -- if you don't like it, don't use it. :\ No one's forcing you to use one.

I agree, although it is frustrating when you get a device with tons of functions but terrible reception. Great reception is a fundamental phone feature.

I also think there are things that "smart phones" could do to be smarter AS phones. For instance:

• Have a "knock first" mode: callers hear "I'm busy or asleep - press one to ring me anyway if it's an emergency, otherwise leave a message."
• Have built-in, onscreen, location-aware, always-cached phone book search. If there's anything a phone needs internet for, that's first.
• Automatically sync your contacts to your computer via Wi-Fi when you walk in range of your home network.

SOME phones have SOME of these features, but stuff like this should be basic to any phone that's supposed to be "smart." Let it be a great phone before you make it a camera and a computer and a bagel slicer.

Re:Basic "smart" features often lacking

[mdm-adph]

Well, the G1 has two of those three things you want, there. :D

The first one seems to be something that's more of a carrier thing, though.

Re:Basic "smart" features often lacking

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

# Automatically sync your contacts to your computer via Wi-Fi when you walk in range of your home network.

That's exactly what I need, a potential vector for invasion into my phone.

I like my smartish iPhone, but when syncing i'd rather be in bluetooth class II range, or use a usb sync cable.

Re:Basic "smart" features often lacking

[Nerdposeur]

That's exactly what I need, a potential vector for invasion into my phone.

Why does it have to be a security risk? I'm not talking about syncing executables, just contacts. Let it be a CSV file.

Besides, I said your home network. Don't you secure it?

Re:Basic "smart" features often lacking

[PsyQ]

Sounds great! When do you want to start?

Re:Basic "smart" features often lacking

[turbidostato]

"The first one seems to be something that's more of a carrier thing, though."

Why do you think so? I'd say he in fact had a great idea carriers would be delighted to offer on their phones.

These are not the days of analog telephones. A telephone doesn't ring because there's voltage on the bell wires. It's all software. An smartphone could answer the line without tone and save the voice message as much as it could ring. And carrier would bill it as an aswered call!

Re:Basic "smart" features often lacking

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

having my phone continuously sniffing for my home network's SSID isn't a potential vector for attack?

Re:Basic "smart" features often lacking

[Dun Malg]

Have a "knock first" mode: callers hear "I'm busy or asleep - press one to ring me anyway if it's an emergency, otherwise leave a message."

That's called an Auto Attendant system, and that's not something that could reasonably be done at the phone. Rather, it would necessarily be a function your carrier's voicemail system. How would your phone push the call "back" to the voicemail system if they didn't press 1? What kind of battery life would you get from a phone with a built in voicemail and auto attendant?

Have built-in, onscreen, location-aware, always-cached phone book search.

Sure, because an accurate reverse lookup by address system that can create a distance-sorted list based on arbitrary location inputs at real-time speeds is a trivial undertaking.

Automatically sync your contacts to your computer via Wi-Fi when you walk in range of your home network.

They can already do that (all Windows Mobile phones can) but since keeping the wi-fi system up all the time sucks the battery down fast, hardly anyone does it that way. Generally, people just use bluetooth, which is already turned on for their headset. Phones that can't, generally can't synchronize at all except through hacks like BitPIM, but that has more to do with assholes like Verizon wanting to put a coin box on every communication event the phone generates than the capability not being there.

SOME phones have SOME of these features, but stuff like this should be basic to any phone that's supposed to be "smart." Let it be a great phone before you make it a camera and a computer and a bagel slicer.

The reason they only have some of these features is that some of them are quite non-trivial to implement. Honestly, if you have no idea how these systems would necessarily have to work, you're simply in no position to judge what qualifies as a "basic" type function for a low power device with a sub-200mhz processor. Your comments are a classic example of pointy-haired boss logic , the kind that goes "if I don't know anything about the subject, it must be easy".

Re:Basic "smart" features often lacking

[Nerdposeur]

That's called an Auto Attendant system, and that's not something that could reasonably be done at the phone. Rather, it would necessarily be a function your carrier's voicemail system.

Then that's where it should be done. My point is that it's a logical improvement for your phone's function - more so than adding a camera. Haven't you ever debated whether to leave your phone on at night - risk being awakened by a random call vs. risk missing an emergency call? Isn't it obvious that your phone (or carrier) should let you decide who can call you when, and warn them that it may not be a good time? Even IM has "busy" mode, and it's much less disruptive than a phone call.

Sure, because an accurate reverse lookup by address system that can create a distance-sorted list based on arbitrary location inputs at real-time speeds is a trivial undertaking.

Google Maps on my BlackBerry already does it on demand. I'm saying to do it in spare cycles and keep it cached. I admit this isn't easy, and maybe the implementation would be less ambitious - just a quick link to online yellow pages. But isn't a phone book an obvious feature for a phone? More so than a music store?

They can already do that (all Windows Mobile phones can) but since keeping the wi-fi system up all the time sucks the battery down fast, hardly anyone does it that way.

OK, so "always-on" wi-fi probably isn't the solution. But after 7 years of owning a cell phone, only last year did I find a non-PDA (a Nokia) that let me sync my own contacts to my own computer via USB. My previous phone had a carrier-disabled USB port, and BlackBerry still has to ship some devices with disabled Wi-Fi to please the carriers, who want you to buy a data plan.

Have you ever had a phone die and lost your contact numbers? I have. Carriers want to charge you like $10 a month to back up what, 50 KB of contact data? It should be trivial to back up a tiny file from a wireless device to a computer, and that's what I'm calling a "basic function."

Honestly, if you have no idea how these systems would necessarily have to work, you're simply in no position to judge what qualifies as a "basic" type function for a low power device with a sub-200mhz processor. Your comments are a classic example of pointy-haired boss logic , the kind that goes "if I don't know anything about the subject, it must be easy".

Those same dinky phones have been shipping with dedicated browsing buttons (that you can't disable) to surf walled-garden, phone-formatted "web" pages, along with cameras and ring tone stores, for years. "Give me more control over my voice mail" and "give me a working sync method that I don't have to pay for" have nothing to do with the processor on the device. The main difference between my suggestions and what the carriers want to provide is that mine don't need monthly subscription fees.

The real pointy-haired boss logic is asking "how can we get more money from the customer?" instead of "what features would make our phones more useful?" I think if you do the latter, the former will come. But I guess I'm just a blunt-skulled user.

Re:Basic "smart" features often lacking

[ion.simon.c]

Not if you actually do some cryptographic handshaking with an authentication daemon after you find your "home" network, but before you upload your contacts.

Re:Basic "smart" features often lacking

[ion.simon.c]

What kind of battery life would you get from a phone with a built in voicemail and auto attendant?

I imagine that the battery life while handling a call wouldn't be much worse than during any other call. When the phone's not handling a call, why would the battery drain be higher on a phone that's configured as an attendant than one one that doesn't have this feature? Don't phones have flash-based internal storage (or something very similar) these days?
As for voicemail storage, I imagine that one could sacrifice some of the space allocated for pictures and MP3s and games to store local voicemail messages.

Using Android on other HTC devices?

[Qwavel]

It might be a long time before there is a 'real' Google phone on 850MHz, so I wonder what the status is of using Android on other phones? Has Android been ported to some of the other HTC phones? Does it work well, or is it just for hackers?

Ideally I would like something that supported both 850 and 2100MHz for 3G.

Re:Using Android on other HTC devices?

[mdm-adph]

Android's been ported to quite a bit of other phones, though it is just for hackers now.

*yawn*

[Anonymous Coward]

Back to sleep. Wake me up when a company other than HTC (the close-but-no-cigar specialists) makes an Android phone.

Low specs

[smoker2]

If HTC were to release a version of the Touch Pro2 running android, it would make it all worth while. I might even upgrade from my Trinity.

Re:Low specs

[Vegeta99]

Good lord, don't get sucked in by the Qualcomm MSM7200A. It's no better, graphics wise, than a TyTN II (which I have) or your trinity.

Re:Low specs

[sticky_charris]

If there was a version of the Touch HD running android and an offline navigation app for it, I would buy it tomorrow. I was disappointed that the Magic's screen size is smaller than the iPhone's and even though it is quite a bit bigger than my Touch Diamond, it has HALF the resolution (320x480 vs 480x640).

Proprietary headphone jack, nuff said...

[rtilghman]

It's funny how the lack of one of the most basic features can drastically undermine the appeal of a whole device...

-rt

Re:Proprietary headphone jack, nuff said...

[DragonTHC]

As a G1 owner, I concur.

It was probably the easiest thing of all to include.

But, HTC has a good market selling headphone adapters.

It was a boneheaded thing to do. Can't compete with the iphone on that front.

Cupcake, will include the bluetooth a2dp profile for stereo headsets like my plantronics 815.

if they ever release it. T-Mobile included.

Re:Proprietary headphone jack, nuff said...

[taniwha]

well I agree - but looking at my G1 I sort of understand why - I suspect it has more to do with the length of such a connector and the location of the buttons on the internal circuit boards - there's no physical space available with the required depth - a phone without a physical keyboard is going to have a lot more locations you could pull that off

Re:Proprietary headphone jack, nuff said...

[bill_mcgonigle]

You know this is because Apple asserted patent rights, ya? It's not like this was a design decision.

Re:Proprietary headphone jack, nuff said...

[DragonTHC]

It didn't have to go on the bottom!

yay moderation trolls are back

[drinkypoo]

Guess what? You could perhaps mod the above comment flamebait, although it isn't really; but a troll is when someone expresses an opinion they don't actually hold in order to elicit a desired response. If slashdot's moderation system isn't actually going to be fixed, maybe a "report abuse" button is in order. It would be overused, but so is moderation.

what i want in a phone

[steak]

something similar to an iphone with a slide out keyboard and the pointer from a blackberry storm.

Not for VZW

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, yet *another* clever phone that Verizon Wireless will ignore. The design is *WAY* to clever and useful to ever be allowed on *their* network. If the phone doesn't suck, they don't want it.

battery life

[xant]

I've actually found that each OTA (over-the-air) update of Android has incrementally improved the battery life.

At this point I have GPS and high-speed networks always turned on, and syncing everything except Gmail (only because I hate that nag and I get over a hundred emails a day..), and my battery indicator stays green for more than a day at a time without recharging, which means I could probably go 2 days without a charge. (May not sound like a lot, but this phone does a LOT.) If I turned off more stuff, it would be no worse than my last, extremely DUMB phone.

Re:battery life

[pcolaman]

The longest I've ever gone between charges on the G1 was literally 5 days. And that's 5 days of normal use. Granted, I was at the point where I had like 5% battery life and my phone was threatening to shut down completely, but I was amazed. And you are right, I've noticed as the updates come in, it does tend to get better.

android compliance

[heroine]

Is it fully compliant with the Android spec? How do you get a product certified to show the Android logo?

Re:android compliance

[Kaitnieks]

Apparently Google doesn't care much. I talked to a guy from Google in some unconference and they think that market will force manufacturers to implement the whole spec but somehow I doubt that. I imagine nightmarish tracking activities for Android app developers to keep their "my application is compatible with following Android phones" list up to date once the new Android based models start rolling out massively.

Re:lack of keyboard, yes, but you need

[davidsyes]

2 isolinear chips, an ODN, and an optronic interface, hehehehe....

This way, you can program yourself for a variet of pleasure techniques, and possibly rival LCDR Data...

It's not the phone...it's the cost of service

[DrVomact]

I'd actually love to have an Android phone (the one with the keyboard), but I'm not willing to pay the extra $35/month T Mobile wants to charge for internet access (plus the regular rate for phone calls, of course). So it doesn't really matter how many great Android phones come out—the whole point of Android is constantly available internet connectivity, so there's no point in my buying one if I'm not willing to cough up that extra money.

Maybe this is a fair charge, maybe not, but I guess I have no urgent need to be connected to the internet 24/7 (I have computers at work and at home that I can use for that, after all), and my techno-lust is not sufficient to make me pay the extra fee.

Maybe the fees will come down once there are unlocked Androids for sale, and every cellular service supports them. Then maybe I'll take a second look.

Re:It's not the phone...it's the cost of service

[Cederic]

The US market feels pretty broken.

T-Mobile are charging me a sensible (and competitive) rate for my phone calls and threw in the data access and the phone for free.

Or to look at it another way, I paid £270 for the phone and got 10 hours of free calls a month for 18 months, all the texts/MMS messages I will ever send for free and internet access thrown in. I'd have paid £270 just for the phone!

Re:It's not the phone...it's the cost of service

[Anonymous Coward]

Or all the carriers will continue to charge $35/month for "data" and continue to not have any voice plans less than $40/month and continue to charge separately for text messages in an unspoken oligopoly.

Re:It's not the phone...it's the cost of service

[DrVomact]

Well, the phone itself is only $179. If I get a 2 year contract with T Mobile. But then they want to charge me not only whatever it costs to get regular cell phone service, but the extra $35 month too (if I actually want to use the G phone for internet stuff). Yes, the phone market over here in the US sucks badly.

My current phone is an unlocked Treo I got about 3 years ago, and I've been using T Mobile without a contract (just pay as I use). The reason I use T Mobile at all is that they are the only US phone company I've found that is somewhat clueful about international operations. I've never had a problem connecting when I go to Europe. In fact, my phone works a lot better over there...

Re:It's not the phone...it's the cost of service

[ignavus]

my techno-lust is not sufficient

I think they have pills for that now.

Re:It's not the phone...it's the cost of service

[joemod]

I suppose that you live in USA. If that's true then you can buy a developer version of G1 from here which points you to here for 399$ + 25$ for Android's developer registration. It's not locked to T-Mobile and you can use it with any mobile provider you prefer.

p.s. Apologies if it has been mentioned before in this thread.

Re:It's not the phone...it's the cost of service

[Khelder]

Service charges are a big consideration for me, too. I'd be really tempted to get an iPhone, even though I can't "upgrade" to it, but it's too much $/month.

If an Android phone comes along that has a more reasonable monthly charge, I'm there. :)

Re:It's not the phone...it's the cost of service

[phreakhead]

Does Android *always* have to be connected to the internet? What if you only want to use available WiFi and don't want to pay the extra $35 for a data plan? Does your phone stop working/suck?

Re:lack of keyboard, yes, but you need

[dotancohen]

If you want LCDR Data why don't you just connect to the difragullator port with a ULR interface? The pins pretty much match up, only the eplstien value vary, and that is easy enough to rectify. It is a very cromulent solution.

It boggles the mind ...

[Zero__Kelvin]

I have also noticed that each of these platforms has a Web browser! What is up with that? Isn't that just weird and uncanny how simple to implement applications that many people like and will use are available on all the major platforms! It boggles the mind!

Re:It boggles the mind ...

[dotancohen]

I don't see the web browser being in the first screenshot for each one.

Re:It boggles the mind ...

[Zero__Kelvin]

The Internet is pretty huge, but I wouldn't want to risk over-stuffing the tubes by enumerating all of the things you don't see here today ...

Re:It boggles the mind ...

[dotancohen]

Go for it. You're bored enough to keep this thread alive.

Battery life would be my biggest concern

[oheso]

I have an HTC phone, and the battery doesn't last 24 hours. That's with it set to check my exchange account manually only and my pop account once every half an hour. If I actually take a call on the thing, battery life can be as short as 12 hours. Of course, this is a totally different model. I'm just sayin' ...

Re:lack of keyboard, yes, but you need

[GaryPatterson]

I'm glad to see a true scientician posting some factoids.

awkward key layout

[Anonymous Coward]

im just hoping the hardware shown is not the final product coz the placement of the menu button is really awkward. im just wandering, if the end call and power off button can be multiplexed in one button why not do the same with the home and menu button. couple that with the non-standard headphone jack and those pretty much are show stopper at least for me.

AND IT LOOKS LIKE...

[Jane Q. Public]

A PALM PILOT!!!

I always said that the iPhone was the device that the Palm Pilot should have been... 2 years earlier. But Palm dropped the ball.

Yes.

[jotaeleemeese]

Any other insightful questions?

Re:lack of keyboard, yes, but you need

[dotancohen]

I once got a +5 Informative for that crap. Since then I like to test the mods with it.

Hey man, you still around?

[Anonymous Coward]

--TSP