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Casinos Warn iPhone Card-Counting App is Illegal

Posted by timothy on from the you-may-only-use-your-regular-brain dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Gaming commissions in Nevada are informing casinos that a new card counting program has made its way to the Apple iPhone, called Hi Lo. This program can be used in the Stealth Mode. When the program is used in the Stealth Mode the screen of the phone will remain shut off, and as long as the user knows where the keys are located the program can be run effortlessly without detection. Randall Sayre, of the Nevada Gaming Commission says 'Use of this type of program or possession of a device with this type of program on it (with the intent to use it), in a licensed gaming establishment, is a violation of NRS 465.075.'"

11 of 462 comments (clear)

  1. awww poor casinos by nnnich · · Score: 5, Funny

    they no like a makey no money

    --
    she was the daughter of a wealthy florentine pogen read em and weep was her adjustable slogan
    1. Re:awww poor casinos by cayenne8 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Why use the iPhone....?

      Card counting on your own, isn't that hard. Sure, it takes a bit of practice, but, it isn't rocket science.

      I played with it awhile...I just made sure I first memorized basic strategy....the set play for everything based on your cards vs the dealer.

      Once you get that down like 2nd nature...you start going with the +1 -1 for the low and high cards showing up on the table...divide the count by number of decks used to that point..etc.

      Not rocket science, but, it does take some practice.

      Even if you were using this iPhone app...you'd still have to have basic strategy memorized.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    2. Re:awww poor casinos by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Nicky Santoro: A lot of holes in the desert, and a lot of problems are buried in those holes. But you gotta do it right. I mean, you gotta have the hole already dug before you show up with a package in the trunk. Otherwise, you're talking about a half-hour to forty-five minutes worth of digging. And who knows who's gonna come along in that time? Pretty soon, you gotta dig a few more holes. You could be there all fuckin' night.

    3. Re:awww poor casinos by LandDolphin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sounds like you missed out and some of the fun... Pole Dancers and 'free' drinks sound liek a nice way to spend an evening...

      --
      Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
    4. Re:awww poor casinos by mweather · · Score: 5, Funny

      Do you have something better than pole dancers to spend it on? I doubt it.

    5. Re:awww poor casinos by rachit · · Score: 5, Informative

      WRONG. If another player is playing poorly, he is affecting how the cards come out of the deck. For instance, if another player "hits" on a 20, and takes the Jack that would have (should have) accompanied your Ace, he has most definitely played in a way that affect your odds of winning.

      In fact, most blackjack players are expecting you to play the "basic strategy" and will get miffed if you don't.

      Before saying in all caps that someone is wrong, you should know what you are talking about. It works out to be the same. In your example, he could have easily have hit another card which allowed you to get your Jack on your turn.

      Looking at it another way, the chances of the Jack being at the top of the deck vs. the card underneath it is exactly the same.

      I get really annoyed at people who blame others at the table for their losses, saying they shouldn't have hit yadayada. It even happens when you follow basic strategy, they complain when you hit on 16. They only remember the situations where that causes them to lose the hand when they shouldn't have vs. when it made them win the hand.

    6. Re:awww poor casinos by johnsonav · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You mean cheat.

      No, cheating conducted by the house, not an individual employee cheating to enrich himself, but actual cheating by the casino at a card game is very rare. I've worked in a casino (riverboat in Iowa) and gambled at almost every casino in the Midwest, and have only seen or heard of real casino cheating once. That was at a tribal casino in South Dakota. They were caught removing cards from a blackjack deck.

      To prevent this, and assure the gamblers that the cards are all there, most casinos have implemented a strict procedure for introducing new cards in play. First, the factory sealed decks are brought to the table by pit personnel. They are opened by the pit, but the cards are removed from the box by the dealer. The cards are then spread out on the table, face down, to check for imperfections on the backs. Then they are flipped face up and counted. All cards must be accounted for before the deck is put into play. The same process is repeated for all decks coming into play. When it is time to change those cards for a new deck, the same procedure is followed in reverse. The cards are inspected to assure they are all still present, re-boxed, and set aside for possible further inspection. This is all done in front of the gamblers, who could easily spot missing or duplicate cards. They take this very seriously.

      It's rare because they already have a statistical edge against the player; they don't need to cheat. They also need to make sure that the gambling public doesn't associate their establishment with cheating, and stop patronizing them. Then they wouldn't make any money. A casino jealously guards its reputation.

      --
      ... and that's when the C.H.U.D.'s came at me.
    7. Re:awww poor casinos by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 5, Informative
      Yup, but there is this little stumbling block:

      NRS 465.088 Penalties for violation of NRS 465.070 to 465.085, inclusive.

      1. A person who violates any provision of NRS 465.070 to 465.085, inclusive, is guilty of a category B felony and shall be punished:

      (a) For the first offense, by imprisonment in the state prison for a minimum term of not less than 1 year and a maximum term of not more than 6 years, or by a fine of not more than $10,000, or by both fine and imprisonment.

      (b) For a second or subsequent violation of any of these provisions, by imprisonment in the state prison for a minimum term of not less than 1 year and a maximum term of not more than 6 years, and may be further punished by a fine of not more than $10,000. The court shall not suspend a sentence of imprisonment imposed pursuant to this paragraph, or grant probation to the person convicted.

      REF: http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-465.html

      I live about 90 minutes from Las Vegas and I can tell you the state of Nevada is serious as a heart attack about cheating. There are repeat offenders serving LIFE without parole for creating and distributing cheating devices and schemes.

      Counting cards in your head is not illegal, but if you do master the art of counting cards without being detected, you can be refused entry at the whim of the casino, just because you are too good at the game... They can walk up and ask you to leave and never return and you must do so. They can also put you face, vital statistics, and biometrics (for facial recognition) in a database shared with other casinos.

      Enjoy your stay

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
    8. Re:awww poor casinos by johnsonav · · Score: 5, Informative

      The other 100,000+ times they were cheating, but not caught I don't believe for a second those machines and wheels are not wired for independent control.

      Believe what you want. It doesn't change the fact that you are wrong. I understand how people can think that slots are rigged, the internals of the machine are hidden and complex. But a game like blackjack takes place in full view of the gambler. In roulette, a "fixed" wheel would be spotted relatively quickly by the gamblers. Have you ever seen "system" players at roulette recording the result of every spin? They would see and exploit any irregularity or pattern. If you think craps is being played with loaded dice, bet on the Don't Pass line.

      They don't have to cheat. They have the odds on their side. All cheating would do is raise the risk to the casino. It would only take one mistake by any one of the dozens of employees involved in the scam to unravel the entire scheme.

      And of course if you do start winning, then they immediately assume you are a cheat and kick you out. Even if you were doing nothing wrong.

      That is simply untrue. Casinos want some winners. They want people to win tens of thousands of dollars; because, at the same time, there are more gamblers watching the winner, betting more, and losing. A winning gambler is a casino's best advertising.

      Each employee you come into contact with at a casino wants you to win, from the cocktail waitress, to the dealer, to the guy working in the cage. Winners tip. Winners tip well. I've payed out massive amounts of money to winners, and did it with a smile on my face every time.

      I have never once seen anyone thrown out of a casino for winning. I have never been thrown out of a casino for winning, and I have had some large wins (I'm not a great gambler, but if you play a lot, you'll win sometimes). Most people thrown out of casinos are drunk and belligerent.

      --
      ... and that's when the C.H.U.D.'s came at me.
  2. Re:slashdot sensationalism by ericrost · · Score: 5, Informative

    Wrong:

    NRS 465.075 Use of device for calculating probabilities. It is unlawful for any person at a licensed gaming establishment to use, or possess with the intent to use, any device to assist:

                1. In projecting the outcome of the game;

                2. In keeping track of the cards played;

                3. In analyzing the probability of the occurrence of an event relating to the game; or

                4. In analyzing the strategy for playing or betting to be used in the game,

    Ê except as permitted by the Commission.

                (Added to NRS by 1985, 970)

    The Nevada laws are friendly to the casinos, as they make Nevada a LOT of money.

    --
    My Babylon
  3. You Watch Too Much TV by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    I was busted for card counting just 10 days ago in Vegas. The pit boss politely leaned over and said, "Sir, we are going to have to ask you to stop playing blackjack."

    I said, "ok", cashed in my chips and that was that. I got to keep the $200 I won and didn't even get escorted off the premises.