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Casinos Warn iPhone Card-Counting App is Illegal
An anonymous reader writes "Gaming commissions in Nevada are informing casinos that a new card counting program has made its way to the Apple iPhone, called Hi Lo. This program can be used in the Stealth Mode. When the program is used in the Stealth Mode the screen of the phone will remain shut off, and as long as the user knows where the keys are located the program can be run effortlessly without detection. Randall Sayre, of the Nevada Gaming Commission says 'Use of this type of program or possession of a device with this type of program on it (with the intent to use it), in a licensed gaming establishment, is a violation of NRS 465.075.'"
they no like a makey no money
she was the daughter of a wealthy florentine pogen read em and weep was her adjustable slogan
How would some one inexperienced be able to operate the card counting app without drawing some massive amount of attention to them selves be with the the screen on or off.
No kidding. I mean I've watched 21 and that episode of Hustle...those casino folks don't joke around!
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Randall Sayre, of the Nevada Gaming Commission says "Use of this type of program or possession of a device with this type of program on it (with the intent to use it), in a licensed gaming establishment, is a violation of NRS 465.075."
So is it illegal to have it? Or just have the intent to use it? Five years for possession of illegal apps!
They couldn't call it "Rainman"?
If the screen is off its all well and good to input card appearances with it hidden in your pocket, but how do you get its current odds output? Vibration or something like that?
Wrong:
The Nevada laws are friendly to the casinos, as they make Nevada a LOT of money.
My Babylon
I was recently in Las Vegas and it seems to me that an application like this would only find use in the smaller casinos. The bigger ones use card shuffling machines that I think continuously reshuffle the deck. After a hand the dealer puts the cards back into the machine which reshuffles the decks (I think they hold several decks). Anybody else know if this is how the machine works? Some of the smaller casinos offer 1 deck Black Jack with no machine used for better player odds. The smaller casinos need to draw more players in and have to offer better odds. These would help here.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Card counting really doesn't work that well in Vegas casinos unless you go with a distributed ring: its pretty obvious when an individual is card counting, if you miscount slightly the casino ends up winning big, and the casions can really mess you up, from shuffling more to "backrooming" you and intimidating the F-outta you.
But if they start suspecting this (which is easy, its just like detecting any other card counter, and then looking more fully at where you keep your hands), then they can not just backroom you, but through the legal process, make you WISH they'd just have settled for the old days when they'd have shoved your iPhone where the sun don't shine.
Test your net with Netalyzr
Counting cards is NOT illegal
Using a device to assist you in counting cards IS. Geico pointing out that drunk driving is illegal, but that doesn't mean that Geico is MAKING drunk driving illegal.
Further more, whoever submitted the post used a clever trick known as synonyms. Citing a violation of one of the many Nevada Revised Statues is the same as, gasp, warning that the app's usage IS ILLEGAL. Granted the headline could've included, "use of" instead of just the app name would be far more clear. But oh well.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
And all those silly little electro-magnetic devices under the craps and roulette tables are legal???
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How can you make that mistake when the guy you're talking about references the actual law?
Whale
Having lived in CT for quite a while, I can only say, "Hello Foxwoods security!" when you get caught :).
They're not very friendly people, although they are definitely "professional..."
512 MB RAM, 20 GB disk, 200 GB transfer, five datacenters. $19.95/month.
Which is why I'm partial to poker.
512 MB RAM, 20 GB disk, 200 GB transfer, five datacenters. $19.95/month.
I'm waiting for the toothpick counting program.
iPhones still suck.
These types of things used to be obvious markers for trolls.
Sadly, Slashdot's anti-trolling efforts have both made the site less user friendly and resulted in a user base that falls for even the most thinly veiled efforts. Back in the inchfan days the parent wouldn't have even merited a link.
"Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
You are either visibly typing on a phone, or have it running in voice mode with ear buds with a hand in your pocket. I supposed you could get blue tooth earphones and hide them under a hat or wig.
You mean it's unlawful for any person at a licensed gaming establishment to use, or possess with the intent to use, a brain?
Ah, well, no surprise there.
Precisely. Thinking upsets the house odds :P.
There are two kinds of fool One says 'This is old therefore good' Another says 'This is new therefore better'- Dean Ing
For most card counting, you need one gesture for positive count, another for negative count. Toe tapping is an obvious gesture, but you could trained more hidden muscles.
You could have the accumulating count trigger voice results at a significant threshhold and deliver these by blue tooth earplug.
Any establishment may expell a player at will and doesnt need to have the physical counting computer. Of course, they'd like to keep the clumsy counters around, because they make money for the casinos.
Wikipeadia mentions computer programs that track cards (by camera recognition) and bets (RFIDs in chips). The computer computes several of the popular counting schemes and compares that against actual play. Positive correlation with actual betting is suspicion of counting and grounds for expulsion.
What would you do as a dealer if someone always tapped something into their phone between BJ hands and varied their betting amounts?
Besides take their money? Nothing.
Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
It's illegal to actually use it within the casinos. You can take your cell phone, even an iphone, into the casino. However, they have cameras with tape everywhere. If they catch you looking at your phone repeatedly, they will probably have probably cause to search your person. They can then try to get into your phone look to see if you have the app, and if you do they'll probably charge you right there. I wouldn't be surprised if they are working on a pin cracking software package so they don't have to get your permission. This of course has it's own legal issues, but casinos will err on the side of profits, and they don't care if the court case can't go thru, at least you are out of their casino. Let the courts worry about little things like civil rights. Winning a court case that your rights have been violated is hard against a casino whether or not you did cheat.
Casinos have the right to eject you and ban you from a casino for any reason. I've never experienced this because I don't gamble, but I wouldn't be surprised if they ask you to remove bluetooth headsets before sitting down at a table. If you refuse, bye bye, they don't have to "serve" you, like any private establishment.
However, just for the record, casinos don't beat you up for committing a crime or counting cards (unlike how the movie 21 portrayed it, that was a complete lie), no they don't make you sleep with the fishes any more, and you can only be charged with a crime if that crime is clearly stated in law. Counting in your head is not illegal. Counting using some kind of electronic device, or communicating with someone outside of the table using an electronic device to help you gamble are both illegal.
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
There's an app for that!
I don't suppose pen and paper are legal, are they?
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
Presumably, the compassionate Commission "permits" this one device.
iPhone Sheep-Counting App
--- What?
God forbid, no! Of course not! What kind of a criminal mind would think of using pen and paper in a casino?!
No, it's a crime that people are so fucking stupid that they keep going and playing. It's one thing if gambling of the sort offered in Las Vegas were offered in every town on the planet, but people schedule entire vacations just to go out to Vegas and piss their money away. If it were offered everywhere, I'd agree it was messed up. But you have to physically go there, for pretty much the express purpose of gambling, to get ripped off. It boggles the mind.
Counting is perfectly legal. In fact, you can even announce to the dealer that the odds are tilted to in your favor and you are going to bet more. What's illegal is using a machine or any other contraption/help to come to that conclusion, however cheat sheets are perfectly legal. Hell, in most casinos a decent dealer will actually advise you on what to do on a per hand basis if they see you are a knuckle head. Of course, the flip side is that at anytime they can "ask" you to leave, or close the table down. So flaunting your card counting abilities isn't very wise unless you like to do a lot of walking between casinos.
Using some very simple rules you can easily slowly bleed the entire night away at blackjack and walk away with most of your money. More often then not the simple advice of 'assume the hidden card is a 10 and play to beat it' works fairly well. You won't lose your shirt, but you won't walk away with a heck of a lot either
I was busted for card counting just 10 days ago in Vegas. The pit boss politely leaned over and said, "Sir, we are going to have to ask you to stop playing blackjack."
I said, "ok", cashed in my chips and that was that. I got to keep the $200 I won and didn't even get escorted off the premises.
Pen and paper are illegal if you're using them to count or try to gain an advantage. So are the casino's own chips, drinks, ice cubes, scraps of paper, etc if you're using them in that way. The law is intentionally vague with it's wording, mainly so it doesn't have to re-written everytime a new technology is developed. Any "instrument" is illegal. Please note that you brain is not an instrument, but the casino can still ban you from their property for any reason.
Stupid Cheap Guitars
Nice to see another hustle fan around
Even if it weren't illegal, casinos really, really don't like card counters. Even those who do it entirely in their heads, if they are found out or simply start winning too consistently, can be asked to leave or escorted out of the casino. It's not a matter of legality or fairness; casinos regard it simply as cheating (anything that tips the odds they've established in their favor is cheating to them), barely above outright theft, and take action accordingly.
In extreme cases, they can add you to a blacklist that other casinos subscribe to. Enforcement of the blacklist starts getting into really impressive, and scary, Big-Brother stuff that governments could only dream of - automatic face recognition and tracking, cross-checking faces against the black list, logging time spent at such-and-such location (i.e., table), who happens to be around the person at the same time (to sniff out collaborative counting groups). Casinos can do it because they have lots of money and incentive to do so, plus they are working this stuff in a smaller environment that they design and control to the hilt.
Possession of a cheating device in a casino is a misdemeanor. Like others have said, using said device may be a death sentence.
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Last paragraph:
'The idea behind counting cards in blackjack is that a deck of cards with a high proportion of high cards (ten-valued cards and aces) to low cards is good for the player, while the reverse (a deck with a high proportion of low cards to high cards) is good for the dealer.[...]
Wikipedia article on Card Counting:
'The idea behind counting cards in blackjack is that a deck of cards with a high proportion of high cards (ten-valued cards and aces) to low cards is good for the player, while the reverse (a deck with a high proportion of low cards to high cards) is good for the dealer.'
C'mon TechFragments. If you copy a Wikipedia article, which you shouldn't be doing anyway, you need to give a link back to the article you copied from and give proper attribution to its authors.
If the screen is black you don't see the running count?
Counting the cards is easy enough without the phone and becomes second nature. I can't look at a table without getting a sum nowadays.
The hard part is memorizing all the tables, and the phone can't help with that.
Depending on how good you are you can hit do well though. The odds are adjusted so that the house always wins overall, but most people will subscribe to that dream that they're going to be the exception.
Example: there's a buddy of mine that plays cards in our local games a lot. He's very, very unpredictable, such that it's almost impossible to tell exactly what he's holding. Although he's not mentioned it, I'm pretty sure he counts cards too. Every time he ever plays locally he always walks away "to the good" (with more money than he started). Recently, he and several other friends went on a Caribbean cruise where they had gambling on the ship in international waters. He came back with almost $30,000 more than he left with, all from gambling winnings. Now, MOST people won't do this, but those few examples keep hopes up enough that people want to try.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
And do if caught counting! Even just in your head :D
It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
May not be permitted on the grounds, but that does NOT make it illegal.
Casinos do not make the laws and those that think they do should have their license revoked.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
People schedule entire vacations just to go out to (insert random vacation city here) and piss their money away. Silly people...
SOME people have a problem, but some people just enjoy it and are willing to spend the money. There's nothing stupid about spending your money on an activity you enjoy. You spend the money and you get the enjoyment you want for it. The same simple formula that drives any "silly" expense of money where you don't get anything material back in return. Movies and WoW fall into the same camp. It's not silly in any of these cases if you have the money to spend (and it is silly in all cases if you don't).
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
Counting cards is not illegal, but if they think you're counting cards in your head they'll ask you to leave anyhow.
I looked at the pole dancers and boozed up, loosing maybe $20.
Obviously you are smarter then I am.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
You mean it's unlawful for any person at a licensed gaming establishment to use, or possess with the intent to use, a brain?
Ah, well, no surprise there.
Exactly. Blackjack is the only game where the odds aren't already heavily stacked in favor of the house and then they make it illegal to use your skills? Yeah, learning how to play the game smart is cheating. That's like deducting points from Jeff Gordon for speeding. Well, I guess if the track itself was sponsoring drivers in the race and they stood to get a large wad of cash if their guys won, there would be some rule against speeding.
Anyone who plays in a rigged game is asking to be taken for everything they have. I think part of our economic crisis is people are realizing the only difference between the stock market and Vegas is there's no showgirls on the trading floor. But wait a sec, the cable news money honeys... no Carrot Top. That's the difference, no Carrot Top.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
Card counting is not illegal, but as in any private establishment they can ask you to leave, at any time, with no reason given, and they can ban you, again with no reason given.... the only thing they cannot legally do is not give you your winnings.. unless they call the police and charge you with defrauding the casino ..
Puteulanus fenestra mortis
I don't know whether a pen and paper would be considered illegal or not, but it would be irrelevant. You may be allowed to card count at a casino, but they aren't required to let you continue card counting. They've developed strategies to try an identify card counters, and once they suspect you of card counting, they'll simply ask you to leave. If you are sitting there with a pen and paper, you are only making it that much easier for them to identify you.
You are correct that the app itself isn't "illegal" in a general sense, but it is a crime to possess it inside of a casino in the state of Nevada:
It is unlawful for any person at a licensed gaming establishment to use, or possess with the intent to use, any device to assist: (2) In keeping track of the cards played
CRIMES AND LIABILITIES CONCERNING GAMING
Exactly. There's a difference between illegal and getting kicked out of a casino. Casinos don't like losing money. If they spot a card counter they basically just say, "If you leave in the next 5 minutes we won't have Bubba and Tiny throw you out for trespassing. Oh, and never come back."
This differs from legitimate winning because those types of winners are more likely to give those winnings right back to the casino. They're also more likely to excite those around them. Those losses for the casino are acceptable.
What doesn't kill you only delays the inevitable
...thanks to the native Americans, there are card rooms and casinos popping up everywhere. And not all of them are as smart or well equipped as the Vegas mob is. Smart card counters can just steer clear of the big operations and still make plenty of money elsewhere.
The problem will be explaining why you are fiddling with your iPhone when there's no cellular coverage out in Dogpatch, Kentucky.
Have gnu, will travel.
Also, counting cards is not illegal in any shape or form.
Counting cards WITHOUT THE ASSISTANCE OF DEVICES is legal. If you can do it in your head, signal to collaborating people what the conditions are, etc. you cannot be charged, but if you are discovered counting cards you can be escorted off the property, as is the right of the private establishment.
However, if you use ANY sort of device, be it mechanical or electronic--even so much as a pad of post-it notes and a pen, you are now not only going to be escorted off the property, you are actually breaking the law and are likely to be arrested.
sooo...you are actually quite wrong when you say counting cards IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM is legal, because it clearly is not--only UNASSISTED counting of cards is legal.
Incidentally, the rule also applies to any gambling activity on the casino, not just card games. Some video slot machines have been known to have a poor pseudo-random algorithm and there have been a couple of cases I know of where mathematically inclined people have noticed this and profited from it. In one case, the casino could not press charges because the person in question actually sat and watched the machine himself for many hours. In another case, a concealed photographic device was used to do the observing and that person was charged and convicted.
...Or go and play poker, which is a different proposition altogether since you're playing against the other players at the table rather than the house.
yup, gambling is effectively a tax on stupidity.
Maybe I just say that cause I find gambling to be no fun. Seriously, is blackjack not the most boring game ever or what? Now poker, I can see. But blackjack?
blah blah blah
In the 'high roller'/VIP rooms you still see traditional shoes more often. The bigger players like them, both because it's more traditional, and because they at least operate under the illusion they have a better chance of winning.
Now, lowly players like me still would prefer a shoe, but the casinos know that CSMs make more money - *not* by preventing card counting (which isn't happening at the low tables anyway) but by simply cutting out the time it takes the dealer to shuffle. More hands per hour = more money.
Why is counting cards illegal in poker or whatever playing environment? The whole idea of poker is statistics. And there's even a rule/law against that? Land of the free?
That's not true at all. Card counting is perfectly legal, as long as you aren't using a "device".
.
You'd instantly see that the casinos all protect themselves by dealing only 3 decks into a 10 deck shoe, then going to the next shoe. That eliminates pretty much all the advantage you could glean from card counting.
Why does every problem require a fucking lawyer? Some just need a mathematician.
Here's the thing. If you are going to a casino to get money, you are kinda missing the point. The whole essence of the casino is sin, getting the drinks and the hookers and the whole nine yards of decadence and then a good steak, cigar, and a game of cards. That's a man's way to do things.
I mean, you could go to Disney and blow a few hundred bucks on Dumbo balloons... or you could go to Vegas, and gamble, get hammered and get laid. Hmmm, if you are going to blow money, why not blow it something cool. Believe me, once you get married, the gambling, cards, drinking are all going to go away.
The only thing that sucks about so many casinos and bars is that you can't smoke at them. What a stupid thing. A bunch of people whining about second hand smoke and then they all drive home drunk. It's just stupid. Quit being such a pussy about cancer, and smoke up.
This is my sig.
Looking at your credit card receipts, I could probably show you 100 examples of you pissing away money on nonessential items in less than 5 minutes.
To each their own I guess...
I remember as an undergrad we would hold our yearly casino night at our dorm. The math and physics professors would sit down and clear us out. Good thing max bets were $2. If I knew about card counting then...
And obvious gestures are usually the easiest ones to get caught using.
The Nevada laws are friendly to you, as they permit gambling and guarantee an open set of rules.
Because the games are profitable (which is due to the human nature of believing you can beat a game that is openly stacked against you), the casinos can afford to make the gaming place a very enjoyable place to be (the fact that this helps feed your belief that you can beat the game is no coincidence, but no detriment, either).
There is no law anywhere that forces you to gamble in a casino in Nevada. You are free to stay home and save your money.
The rest of us will go have fun and pay a fair amount for the privilege.
Yup. They have the right to refuse service to anyone, and to do it completely arbitrarily.
Go ahead Casino rejects... the truth will be told. You can't downmod insightful, truthful posts forever.
If you can read this sig, congratulations, you have your glasses on!
Is the iPhone a good driver?
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
"legitimate winning"? Are you implying that card counting in your head is not a legitimate way to win? Perhaps you meant "winning by luck"?
yup, gambling is effectively a tax on stupidity.
You mean, the lottery is a tax on stupidity.
Gambling is part of life. You can't walk out your door without gambling that a satellite won't fall out of the sky and strike you on the head.
Seriously though, I like sports betting. My favorite bet to make is when two teams are fairly even matches, but the odds are very lopsided. Like the Super Bowl, the Cardinals were going to give the Steelers a good game. But the Steelers were a heavy favorite, cause... they are playing the Cardinals. It was easy money with the 6.5 point spread.
Point being, if someone bets you 3 to 1 that a coin will land on heads and you know your odds are 2 to 1. Then you take the bet. Its still gambling, but it is far from stupid. In sports gambling and all variety of casino games, the astute gambler can make it pay.
The one big exception to this is the lotto. (Though, at one point I believed the lotto was beatable. Then I found out that they switch out the balls regularly). Regardless, I find it especially puzzling that this is the only legal form of gambling in most states. Both the lotto and slots have a guaranteed percent on house odds. However, the lotto stands alone in that there is no way you can game it to your advantage. I have often said that the lotto is a tax on people who don't know math.
Sorry, I was thinking from the casino's position. You are right, "winning by luck" is a better way of putting it. Basically the casinos want people that play for fun and entertainment while discouraging people that are trying to make money at it. And since they can refuse service to anyone they want...
What doesn't kill you only delays the inevitable
Obviously, card-counting with a device, mechanical, electronic, or even a pencil and paper, is flagrantly illegal. Everybody knows this.
However, card-counting in your head is not.
*BUT* they can kick you out if they suspect you are counting cards in your head, or will use any number of methods to screw up your mental counting, such as distraction (hecklers, waitresses with great tits, etc. They use the same methods for dice controllers too.).
Keep in mind, if someone says "This table is too hot for you", then leave. Immediately.
Card Counters caught cheating with a device are handed over to the police (if they are lucky), your mugshot is taken by casino personnel, and you are placed into a Black Book database, and effectively banned from every casino with access to the database.
Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
Getting caught cheating Vegas Casinos? No biggie.
So, you lose your phone. Or is it the use of your right hand. I can never get those two straight.
People go and play at casinos and LOSE $200, so there must be some entertainment value there. If you can play and win a little, or break even, they why not?
Personally, I don't understand why you'd play anyway, but then, I have the opposite of an addictive personality. I got bored after about six coins in the nickel slots. Worse, I kept winning so I kept having more nickels to get rid of.
Except in a casino. Then, the casino profits substantially from your bets, without risking any of it's own capital.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
There's an app for that.
Using a device to assist with card counting IS illegal, as well as trying to calculate odds on other table games.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
In the early 1980's, a group of Santa Cruz physics grad students built a set of computers into their cowboy boots. These timed the spinning of roulette wheels and applied Newtonian physics.
Thomas Bass wrote this up in the 1985 book, The Eudaemonic Pie, and caused the Nevada Gaming Commission to ban the use of these devices.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eudaemonic_Pie
"You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein
Ah, yes, Albert Einstein, the great statesman. Truly the one to turn to for theories of diplomacy, and not such paltry matters as physics.
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
hell, just email the application to the pit boss, or perhaps the GM ...since you only have to posses it to be convicted, any attachment downloaded to an iPhone or blackberry would make them guilty...
hell, if you could write a program that ran in motorola hand-held radios, you could clear the casinos of ALL of their employees
nah, i'll just stay home and play solitaire.
Observation: The human brain is a device that has all of these capabilities and more.
The mental card counter playing with an optimal strategy uses the human brain to: (1) project the outcome, (2) keep track [count] of cards played, (3) provide insight into probability of occurence of certain card values being dealt, and (4) providing the user with analysis of the game for best strategy as of how to proceed.
So under this law, you would have to remove your brain before sitting down at the blackjack table, the same at any card-game where the human brain can provide such advantage.
Just waiting for someone with a mental impairment to get the law overturned under the Americans with Disabilities act, since certain conceivable assistive technologies (i.e. memory aids) could also be used to gain an advantage in games like blackjack.
Nevada has NO personal income tax, the money collected as tax from casino profits is a very large portion of the state budget... So they frown on people peeing in their revenue stream. It's considered cheating because a device is being used to track the probability of a favorable hand being dealt to the player, if you do it in your head it is OK.
People have built many devices to keep count and it's always considered a felony to use them in the state of Nevada. In fact, many devices are a felony to even OWN... Here come the iPhone police, oh joy.
BTW, the current thing going on is teams where team players keep a count at a few (or many) tables and the "High Roller" sits in at a hot table at the opportune moment based on signals sent from each tables team member. The casinos are now reworking the software to correlate groups of players to try and discourage this behavior, but it is a lot harder when you have enough people to rotate them in and out of small teams and work various casinos.
You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
I have been counting cards in Blackjack for years and grinding out a modest return -- it pays for the trip to Vegas and concommitant fun. No, I don't use iPhone or other devices. The danger of detection exists -- the casinos videotape everything and can rerun the session and assess your play. The solution is to lose yourself in the crowd: play for an hour at most before you move on, and avoid greed.
And so it was, for years... until the 6- and 8- deck shoes became ubiquitous and utterly diluted the counter's advantage. Thanks for the memories :)
The underlying goal of any game is to win. The rules of casino-games are set up to make winning in the long run nearly impossible. I can never understand why counting is illegal. You are simply navigating within the rules of the game, to increase your chance of winning. Now I realize this is about not using an appliance to gain an edge, but I get the feeling manual counting is almost equally frowned upon. You are allowed to sit there and give your money away, but try to win and you're in the gray? I smell corruption from all the way across the atlantic.
We are the house. We control the odds. You may not do anything that shifts the odds to your favor. Just hand the money over without making a fuss. Thank you for playing.
Absolutely. Let me know when you find me pissing away 2k at a clip.
...but I was using the verb "counting" in the same sense as "flying." If you're not doing it successfully, you're not "flying" any more, you're "falling". :-)
But yes, you're absolutely correct. Reminds me of a quote I heard from a casino boss, something along the lines of "Some people come with their paycheck. We send free food to those people. Some people come with real money. Those people we comp rooms for. Some people come with real money and a SYSTEM. We send limos and women for those guys..."
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
Naturally, this piques my curiosity (and gives me the urge to go out and purchase or build such a device just so I can own something that is illegal in another state). But after reading the statute in question, I am not really clear on what specific items are a felony to own. The only section that stands out in that regard is NRS 465.080, which outlines materials prohibited because they can be used to make counterfeit coins, chips, tokens, etc.
Lead and lead alloys are on that list, so technically you could get arrested if you're found with a lead fishing weight in your pocket. (Yeah, I know, lead is being replaced by tungsten and other metals for sinkers.) If two or more items from the prohibited list are on your person (say, a torch and a pair of tongs), that permits a "rebuttable inference" that you intended to use them for cheating... and not, say, lighting charcoal for your hookah. I'm assuming a "rebuttable inference" means that you're allowed to provide a rebuttal to the claim you're using the items for cheating, presumably by telling the authorities what you were really using them for.
So anyway, I'd really like to know what devices are actually a felony to own.
The rest of the statute is just as scary sounding. Casino employees are permitted to detain and question anyone suspected of cheating. In what other state of the Union would a non-cop or other non-state, non-federal employee be permitted to do such a thing? They don't even have to worry about civil or criminal liability for conducting such questioning or for detaining someone against their will. Any "evidence" seized does not have to be returned if the case goes to trial, and can be disposed of even if it isn't produced in court. Devices seized which don't result in charges, but which are considered prohibited devices, are still retained by the Gaming Board and destroyed by them.
So, probably not a good idea to take your iPhone into any casino just to be safe, because even if you're deemed innocent, you might not get your property back.
When I work in the industry, the boars sent out a memo reminding Casinos that card counting device where NOT illegal; however the casino did have the right to refuse service to anyone.
Now it's a law. So now I can't even open a casino the explicit allowed them.
"These timed the spinning of roulette wheels and applied Newtonian physics."
to what gain? I mean they must ahve found a person who doesn't know how to throw a ball for that to work.or devised a way to calculate spin for each throw. I'd like to see this in action.
Naturally the way this should ahve been countered is with all bets stand as soon as the wheel starts spinning.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
BTW, the current thing going on is teams where team players keep a count at a few (or many) tables and the "High Roller" sits in at a hot table at the opportune moment based on signals sent from each tables team member. The casinos are now reworking the software to correlate groups of players to try and discourage this behavior, but it is a lot harder when you have enough people to rotate them in and out of small teams and work various casinos.
A simple solution is for the casinos themselves to count their own cards. When the odds become favourable they then shuffle the deck.
Nothing boggling about it.
Some people enjoy spending there money, getting drinks and talking. Along with seeing a show. Reading the handouts for a professional in room show.
It's fun. Drop a grand there, or drop a grand at Disney land, or on a cruise. At least with gambling you MIGHT get your money back.
I have been known to ahve a blast in vegas. Partying, getting into a little mischief. Like muttering numbers while the guy next to me is trying to card count. Or playing a poker hand in such away the professionals come over the table at you....ah, good times.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Indeed, that is not uncommon. In at least one casino I frequented, one requirement for dealing used to be the ability to count the deck down accurately in under one minute, I don't know if that still holds true. The casinos adjust their behavior if the amount of play drops off, so they don't always cold deck a game for fear of losing players. They are now looking at continuous shufflers that reintroduce all the cards into play after each hand, but that has the same danger of losing players.
You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
Right, so I'll let the suckers go to the casinos, and I'll spend my money in a way that brings me enjoyment. Which doesn't include paying the light and air conditioning bills for a bunch of mobsters in the desert. :)
My Babylon
Eh. If gambling isn't fun for you then don't do it. In fact if you don't like gambling Vegas is just about the ideal destination for you: all of that food, all of those shows, all of the hotel rooms, all of everything subsidized by people gambling.
I want a new world. I think this one is broken.