Slashdot Mirror
Calif. Politican Thinks Blurred Online Maps Would Deter Terrorists
Hugh Pickens writes "California Assemblyman Joel Anderson plans to introduce a bill to force Google Earth and similar services to blur images of so-called 'soft targets' like schools, hospitals, churches and government buildings to protect them from terrorists. 'All I'm trying to do is stop terrorists,' said Anderson. 'I don't want California to be helping map out future targets for terrorists.' Concerns that detailed satellite imagery and photographs available on Web services could help terrorists plan attacks are not new, with reports that terrorists have used such imagery to carry out attacks in Iraq and Israel, and an Indian court is considering a ban on Google Earth following reports that its imagery played a part in the Mumbai terrorist attacks."
"Security expert Bruce Schneier recently wondered what other things legislators might consider banning to prevent terrorism: 'Bank robbers have long used cars and motorcycles as getaway vehicles, and horses before then. I haven't seen it talked about yet, but the Mumbai terrorists used boats as well. They also wore boots. They ate lunch at restaurants, drank bottled water and breathed the air,' wrote Schneier. 'Society survives all of this because the good uses of infrastructure far outweigh the bad uses, even though the good uses are — by and large — small and pedestrian and the bad uses are rare and spectacular.'"
Politicians have called for a ban on cars since they are used for bank robberies. They have also called for a ban on cellphones since terrorists have been using cellphones for communications. More at 11.
Why in the world would you want to tell people, "These fuzzy-looking buildings are the ones we really care about the most. Targeting these would cause us the most grief"?
Either you want all the details fuzzed or none of them. The address of a building can be deduced pretty easily once you've pointed it out to them on the map. From there they can get public records of building plans or do their own surveillance planning. Why narrow the search to the most vulnerable or most valuable targets for them?
Isn't California running out of money, spare electricity capacity and (most importantly) fresh water? In terms of imminent threats, I'm surprised terrorism is even on the horizon.
"I bless every day that I continue to live, for every day is pure profit."
Agreed, think of it this way.
"they" could look up the address in a phone book, we better make publishing the address of the schools (or other buildings) illegal.
Of course nobody will go to school since it's illegal to give out the address.
Somehow I'm thinking "they" were able to find targets before google maps existed.
Those who can, do.
Agreed. Plus, GPS devices should be outlawed -- terrorists could use them to navigate in lieu of maps. Actually, history books, almanacs, encyclopedias, these all tell terrorists what we care about. Those should be outlawed too. Plus the internet, which allows them to communicate, and possibly phones, the mail system, UPS, FedEx and other courier services. Then maybe we can finally feel safe!
or, "Well, let's blow everything up, one of these blurred out buildings *must* be the school!"
Then you get the "clever" ones:
Terr1: grab the map! ..you - take these crates to the blurred locations. We'll blurr them some more, this time in real life. Ha ha ha!
Terr2: Hey, WTF, its blurry!
Terr1: Ok. You, you, and
Terr2: You are SO evil, master.
Read: DUH! make it OBVIOUS what the targets are by blurring them. Only a Californian Cretin could come up with this.
Why don't we just ban terrorism instead?
This is quite similar to this, replacing security with blurred map. Reality rarely works out the way people imagine.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
If he really cares about California he should blur his name on the next election ballot.
it's like the USA has been in some kind decaying orbit for the last decade. just when you think the sepo's can't get worse they drop another notch.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
That's the plan. Sure one of the nearby building must be the school but which one? I mean, schools are generally hard to pick out. It's not like they put signs on the road letting you know that you are near a school.
Copyright 2010. All rights reserved. This comment may not be copied in any way including, but not limited to caching.
Or even better:
Terr'st1: Damn, India just banned Google Earth to prevent what were trying to do..
Terr'st2: And that affects us sitting here in Pakistan how?
What are we going to do tonight Brain?
And all I'm asking you to do is show me the increase in terrorist attacks since Online Maps have become available
We had one terrorist attack on US soil so far this century that cost almost 3,000 lives. Meanwhile, 45,000 die violently on US highways every single year, and another half million die horribly from cancer.
Our politicians are not only gutless cowards, but they're STUPID gutless cowards with no sense of proportion whatever.
Free Martian Whores!
As others have mentioned, terrorism is the new bogeyman to
1. to keep people distracted from domestic issues
2. fund more military and/or homeland 'security' spending
3. justify more idiotic legislation like this one
I'm not afraid of Terrorists. I'm afraid of the idiots who believe that Terrorists are our biggest problem, thereby keeping these jackasses in power.
Dumbest asses ever. All of them. Republicans. Democrats. Whatever.
Your Governor was on This Week last week (or maybe it was the week before last?), and he said, TWICE, that there is no difference between Republicans and Democrats.
So I think he agrees with you.
Free Martian Whores!
Politicians have to be the stupidist creatures on earth.
Maybe we'd have less terrorism if we banned politcians.
Hey, terrorist were *reading* maps to plan terrorist attacks. Let's outlaw reading!
But if you dare say "Maybe we shouldn't put automatic assault rifles into the hands of anyone with a driver's license", then the gun freaks go ape-shit.
Why is it that they'll ban and outlaw everything, except the obvious?
Secondly, if someone was a terrorist, wouldn't they know then to attack anything on the maps that are blurry?
Oh, my head hurts. Stop the planet, I want to get off.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
Agreed, think of it this way.
"they" could look up the address in a phone book, we better make publishing the address of the schools (or other buildings) illegal.
Of course nobody will go to school since it's illegal to give out the address.
Somehow I'm thinking "they" were able to find targets before google maps existed.
"They" were. Humans have fought each other for all of known history. Only recently have there been technological means of reconissance. Reconissance managed to get done before there were satellites and online maps or computers. Even if this map-blurring were 100% effective at its stated purpose (my bet is that it won't be), all it would accomplish is the removal of one potential method. Unfortunately, there are many potential methods. This is just a feel-good worthless measure at best. At worst, it's an excuse for closer state control and regulation of online services -- anyone with some sense has known that politicians have desired that for a long time now. If it's like so many other things, all they need to do is wait for a good enough excuse.
For anyone who thinks this will accomplish anything, I say to you that it's the height of hubris to assume that you are so clever while your enemy is so stupid. Many needless deaths and military defeats have resulted from this sort of thinking. If you're not a strategist and don't understand these basic things, is it so much to ask that you refrain from making strategic decisions? The reality is that if some criminal group really wants to wreak havoc and if they don't give a damn about their own lives and are willing to die in the attempt to do so, there's not a lot you can do to stop them. At least not without destroying whatever freedoms we have left, which is what any truly effective measures would do. I didn't cause this to be true and I don't like it either, but we seriously need to work with the reality of the situation if we are to understand or accomplish anything.
I think we forget that you're a lot more likely to die by being struck by lightning than by being hit by a terrorist attack. I'm so tired of the level of cowaradice that this particular issue reveals. Our ancestors (speaking of the USA) realized that there are things that are more important than life itself, such as freedom, which is why they were willing to go to war to fight and die for those things. Personally, I'd rather keep all of my freedoms even if that meant that my chances of dying in a terrorist attack were increased 100-fold. For those of you who think that's an extreme position or an unwise choice, I have a question: if not for something truly good and wholesome and wonderful that fills your life with purpose, such as the freedom to be who you are and live your own life, what exactly are you living for that makes you so afraid of death, especially a particularly unlikely death? If you have them, what kind of message does your cowardice send to your children? That you should give up everything that is sacred to you for any fear or any bully who comes along? No wonder you are so afraid of dying; the breath in your lungs is the only thing about you that seems truly alive.
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
Wait, so if we don't identify this complex of buildings with a football field, two baseball diamonds, swimming pool, large parking lot and sports team mascot painted on the 50 yard line as a school...it doesn't have to be blurred?
I'm not afraid of Terrorists. I'm afraid of the idiots who believe that Terrorists are our biggest problem, thereby keeping these jackasses in power.
Is anyone anyone really afraid of terrorists? Crackheads probably kill more people in America than terrorists do. Terrorists are dedicated enough to this to commit suicide in the process of doing it. They are not going to be deterred by the small amount of extra work necessary to survey a building rather than consulting google maps. All this does is narrow down the list of targets and piss everyone else off.
You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
"identified on the Internet Web site by the operator as a school, place of worship, or government or medical building or facility"
Ok... so by "government facility" is he including property that is owned by governmental agencies, but is leased out to private entities? Because otherwise, the ONLY major US terrorist target since 1995 didn't make the list.
Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
I don't think this guy seems corrupt --- just stupid.
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
Funny thing is... only americans have ever targeted american schools...
Well its not "Funny", its interesting how "attacks on schools" are such a cliche against foreign terrorism, when its just never ever happened that way, maps or no maps.
NO SIG
Of course, the terrorists wouldn't be smart enough to follow the giant train of large yellow things at 7:30-8am. Nor the hordes of small Americans, all walking the same direction.
A more effective plan would be to build big underground bunkers, and not let the children ever come out.
Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
God has never rewarded stupidity or laziness.
If you think most religions', let alone Christianity's, meaning of "faith" means "lazy, let-God-do-everything, don't have to do anything ourselves," then you appear to know very little about it.
Protect His own property? Sure. Ever wondered how the Bible survived with so many world powers trying to extinguish it during history? Or, for that matter, the Christian faith in general? How many religions do you know of that survived through even just Rome's occupation of most of the world?
But I've never heard, and I have studied the Bible, anyone claim that a protestant church building is somehow specially protected by God all the time as though it were a "holy" place....
Seriously, stuff like this is what we used to poke fun at the Soviets for back in the good ole' Cold War days when Regan was prez and high schools still had gun target practice as an extra curricular activity. One of the things the US prides itself on is the open and free access to public data and the freedom to publish it. Maps are one of the key centerpieces that we measure our open society by...
Guy's and idiot and should be forcibly ejected from the country.
That mentality existed through the fall of the Iron Curtain. When I lived in Europe in the 80's, a friend of the family worked in military intelligence (an oxymoron, I know). He couldn't give a lot of details, but one of the classic stories he'd tell was about Soviet military training exercises--back in those days, they wouldn't even tell a convoy where they were going. Their standard operational procedure was that only the commander would know, and he'd be in the first vehicle in a convoy. Any time they needed to turn, they'd drop off a soldier at the intersection, and he'd then direct everyone else and get back into the last vehicle of the convoy. This would be repeated over and over until they reached their destination.
Now, when the intelligence guys wanted to find out what was going on, we'd simply ask the guy at the intersection. He, predictably, would say that he couldn't tell them, and they'd reply that of course they knew they weren't allowed to follow the convoy, and that to ensure they didn't, they had to know which way the convoy was going, so they could go a different direction and not get into trouble with their superiors.
With that impeccable logic, the soldier would generally point out where the convoy was headed, allowing the intelligence guys to speed off in that direction...
In 1941, maps of the Soviet Union available to Germany showed a major highway going from Moscow to very nearly the border.
The Soviet Union continued to obfuscate maps available to civilians up until its demise. A friend who lived there in the '70's commented that he wasn't supposed to take pictures of bridges and the like, either.
I was viewing Moscow the other day on Google Earth and thinking what a wonderful world we live in. An open world, more free than we were back then.
I'd like to think that the US isn't going to adopt the same kind of silly things that their old enemy did, which didn't work at the time and will work even less well today.
Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
Governments would go bankrupt if they had a No-Nonsense policy. I think you meant a Zero-Tolerance policy... =D
If we just blurred all maps, the terrorists couldn't even find their targets!
We're thinking along the wrong lines. Why not just outlaw looking at maps with the intent to commit terrorism?
No, Because terrorism is already against the laws. Creating ancillary "use laws" just helps the government battle non-terrorist activities.
Owning fertilizer is not against the law. But if "using fertilizer in a terrorist act" becomes a crime, an oppressive government could go after people who own fertilizer they want to censor. Intent can be sold by a sharp prosecuting attorney to an average people jury, even when its not true.
If anything in the last 10 years, learn from how many laws have been created to fight terrorism has been used against terrorists vs. outspoken citizens.
You must be under the impression that a retreat covered by delaying actions is not a long standing and highly effective traditional Russian military tactic. Letting the invader take a large chunk of territory is actually key, because it means that they will have a nice long supply chain largely unable to find adequate shelter or supplies to survive the winter. They just let 60% of the enemy forces die a painful death between November and April, then march through and slaughter whatever half-starved, demoralized and poorly armed survivors weren't fortunate enough to succumb to the elements like their comrades.
Driving the Russians back to Moscow by October is just a fancy way of losing miserably. Just ask Napolean or Hitler.
Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
Yeah because, you know, terrorism is all about finesse.
morcego
"Have you got an assignment, James?"
"Yes Moneypenny. I'm to eliminate all free radicals."
"Oh! Do be careful James!"
Hell, I bet McDonalds kills more people with hearteriosclerosis each year than die from bullets in the US. That doesn't figure, though, because peoples' brains have evolved to remember rare dramatic events over common boring events. Uncle Mick cheeseburgering himself to death is both common and boring. That one guy who got eaten by a shark in his bathtub, or the one who always carried his lucky penny everywhere and then won the lottery... those are the ones we remember. That's why Lotto attracts the same schmucks every week, and why many people are scared of air travel when by rights they should be ten times as scared of driving down to the local shops.
Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
Yeah, because terrorists would never think that it might just be scarier to TAKE OUT THE SATELLITES and thus deprive commerce of it's ability to rely on them to get anywhere.
I mean seriously how many companies rely on GPS either to make sure workers are doing their jobs, or to get them to their destination? Nevermind governments using them for similiar purposes.
Now imagine if it went off all at once, say the day before Xmas or some major time when it would be expected that a lot of people depending on it for, say, deliveries suddenly had the 'lights turned out' on them?
Seriously our society is so dependent on so many things that our best bet is to simply not worry about it and move on. If the terrorists were really as big a threat as the gvmt tried to make out, then they'd have sleepers working to get the classified versions of those blurred maps to plan their targets anyhow. And honestly who has seen that level of organization out of them? If there was, they would've pulled off a much bigger set of acts than one silly set of towers. Why not just go after a half dozen bridges across the US, or a bunch of dams? Or a building in every major cities skyline? I mean each of these would be easy to find, wouldn't need these 'Google Earth' maps, and would have far more of a psychological impact on whichever towns they were done to. Shooting/bombing/gassing a couple of schools? C'mon. Your children have a greater chance of being molested by a teacher than being killed by terrorists at school. Hey, maybe we should ban teachers while we're at it!
*snicker*