Slashdot Mirror
Reversing Undesirable Fish Evolution
TaeKwonDood writes "Your granddad's approach to fishing — throw the little 'uns back — may have hurt their evolution, but we can reverse that, says a group of researchers, with a change of policy.
Fish have been 'reprogramming' themselves to be smaller and live longer. Welcome to evolutionary dynamics, Lamarck. But, no, they are serious. And it can be fixed within 12 generations. What do the smart people out there think about this? Are they using the term 'evolution' the wrong way?"
Of course not! Hollywood would be proud!
Oh, and they can get it down to 6 generations if they reroute the power from the main EPS conduits through the deflector dish in order to create a reversed polarity tachyon field. The tachyons will interact with the quantum state of the fish at a subatomic level, forcing them to grow larger. Sort of like inflating a balloon. With tachyons.
Are they using the term 'evolution' the wrong way?
Nope. It seems correct to this biology teacher. This is a clear case of directional selection. Keep eliminating the larger fish and the median size of fish in the population will be smaller. So, by taking the large ones, we are selecting against them and for smaller fish and juveniles. If, over time the frequencies of the alleles for large and small change in the population, then we have, by definition, evolution.
What makes you think this wouldn't be an example of evolution?
"Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
Are they using the term 'evolution' the wrong way?"
If being smaller enables the fish to survive long enough to breed, then no. Big fish die off, small fish breed.
William of Ockham had no beard. The most likely explanation is that it was chewed off by squirrels every morning.
What does Lamarck have to do with it? These fish haven't been passing down traits they've developed during their lifetimes - we've been killing all the big fish, so smaller fish are selectively left to breed. That's Darwinian evolution.
In normal situations, I'd imagine that bigger fish tend to reproduce more often. But when some external force (e.g., thousands of fishers in boats with GPS and big nets) changes things, you get a different outcome.
If we preferred to eat fish that were darker in colour, they'd be getting lighter instead.
Either TaeKwonDood misunderstands evolution, or rushed to post his article a little too quickly...
---sheath
No, but you're being rather careless with your language.
It hasn't "hurt" their evolution. Their evolution has been helpful, based on the selection pressures they face.
Nor are the fish "reprogramming themselves". The species' genetic make up may be shifting (in a loose sense "reprogrammed") but they aren't doing it to themselves.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
One species is trying to grow legs and arms so it can crawl to land and build nuclear weapons to end the world. We must stop this before it's too late!. -Anonymous Anomalocaris
Table-ized A.I.
Why are you name-dropping 17th century biologists? There's nothing even remotely transmutational about that article.
It's nice to be liked, but it's better by far to get paid
12 fish generations...
Animal Husbandry has been doing it for years in one form or another.
See Wikipedia
Of course, if you leave the runts of the litter only, you end up with smaller critters. Its how many lap dogs were bred in the first place.
And like any breeder can tell you, of course it can be fixed in 12 animal generations!
Clearly this is yet MORE poof of intelligent design! How can you not see it!
Whenever I go out to the bars, I make it a point to take the smallest woman I can find home with me. It is my hope that within generations, the women remaining in the bars will all be larger and provide... um... ::analogy fail::
they should be throwing back the young ones. Older fish are getting smaller? Chop 'em in half and count the rings.
Of course not! It's Evolution 2.0!
And how is it different from any other kind of selective breeding?
Colorless green Cthulhu waits dreaming furiously.
For years, the elephants in southern India have been hunted for their tusks. Fifteen years ago, you could very well run into a lone tusker in the wild with metre long tusks.
But now of late, there are baby elephants being born who grow up to be fertile males without the large tusks. With tiny foot long points out of their mouths, instead of something resembling the original giants that I used to love.
It's almost as if the poachers are even more of a significant selection force than nature and female preference put together.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur
just because those fish didn't evolve the way we would have liked that it somehow means that it "hurt their evolution."
I'd in fact go further and say it has helped their evolution. If they become small enough that us humans cannot be bothered with them then they have managed to eliminate the most dangerous predator on the planet as a concern. Seems like a smart move to me.
... should read Beak of the Finch
Money is the root of all evil?
Technically they are correct, in practice I have my doubts. It is hard to get all the variables in a breeding programme to act in line. Ask any dog breeder.
I once was asked by someone from J. Witnesses if I could transform a human into a crocodile. Sure I said, just give me some 300 million years and I might succeed. And, give give me another 300 million years and I may even get it back to a human.
Me, the magician!
TFA describes a closed study of a population of fish. It's not an examination of wild populations of fish or an analysis of trends in wild populations. Extrapolating their observations from the closed population and applying them to the wild populations isn't accurate.
Commercial fishing is performed with nets (or longlines) and does not discriminate based on size. Everything in the net goes into the hold. Any non-target fish are discarded after they are dead. Sport fishing does discriminate based on size, but doesn't have a significant impact on saltwater fish. Also, larger fish are usually the smarter fish that have avoided anglers' lures, etc. which is a phenomena that isn't accounted for in this study.
Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
I was hoping the first 10 minutes of Idiocracy wasn't true. Unfortunately, after returning from Tomorrowland at Disney and reading this article, I fear the Cleavons will take over the earth.
-- $G
God I wish I had mod points!
Mod parent Troll!
I read, about twenty-five years ago, that traditional people in the Andes, when planting potatoes, only planted the biggest and most beautiful ones they had from previous harvest. The religious justification is that the "Pacha Mama", which is "Mother Earth", only deserves the best.
Lately there have been examples of Lamarck-like 'evolution'. It's clear now the base-pair order is not the whole picture. To some extend acquired features (in particular, methylation of DNA) can be passed on to offspring.
see http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20026845.000-memories-may-be-stored-on-your-dna.html
I don't oppose hunting on moral or ethical grounds. And I eat meat like nobody's business. My problem with hunting is that humans have obtained such an imbalance of power such that, unlike in the wild, where predators prey on the weak, humans only hunt the strong. We shoot the biggest buck, the biggest bear, the biggest whatever. We are removing the best genes from the gene pool. It's "survival of the weakest", and the long term consequences cannot be good.
Fisheries biologists have known this for some time. You'll often find that game fish have harvest windows where only fish within a certain size range can be kept. Smaller, and more importantly, larger, fish need to be returned. So, the ones with genes for growing large are preserved, and the young that are needed to sustain the population are also preserved.
It's also been known (for example, articles in In-Fisherman magazine from some years ago) that members of the sunfish family seem to divide into two population groups - one in which the members never go beyond eating insects, crustaceans, and the like, and a population that has moved on to prey on smaller fish. The former population stays small, the latter gets big. Guess what keeping the big ones does?
The same selection of the smallest happens in the logging industry when people cut down the bigger trees and think the little ones will grow up to fill in. That's called "high cutting" and it will ruin a forest for generations. As much bad publicity as clear cutting gets it's usually the best way to manage timber cutting.
This is no more evolution than the development of different breeds of dogs, which are all the same species, was evolution. Take a population and select a specific trait. Breed the population to amplify that trait.
Take a population of dogs. Bread the population to be big, and you end up with a population that is bigger and bigger. Eventually, you end up with great danes, mastifs, etc.
Continue this kind of divergent breeding long enough, with a large enough group of traits and one might be able to force evolutionary change and the creation of different species.
This is an example of change due to environmental pressure. But, the pressure has not been applied long enough to make the change permanent or complete.
The article shows a simplistic understanding of the Theory of Evolution and a simplistic and misinformed interpretation of the data.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samurai_crab
Did a similar thing (by accident) by 'evolving' a fox breed to a new species of dogs over 10 fox generations (10 years).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitri_Belyaev
He NEVER caught the big fish. He didn't even try. His tactic was to put a tiny little hook on his line and sit in the shallows. In 3 or 4 hours he'd have about a hundred tiny little bluegills. Of course, he'd have to clean all those bitty fish, but he didn't mind. Once they were fried up with a little batter on them, you could eat them whole like sardines and they were FUCKING DELICIOUS.
Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
It's desirable to the fish. Personally, if I was smaller and lived longer I'd consider that a pretty decent trade-off.
No one posted a comment about getting fish to have laser beams on their heads? Sharks are preferred, but sharks are fish. The little one with little lasers only annoy. We want really big ones with huge lasers to take out our targets!
As someone who does go fishing, I am sort of concerned with this. Commercial fishing has always had a different set of rules then recreational fishing. For example: flounder (or summer flounder or fluke) in my state the size limit is 18 inches with a bag limit of 4 in 2008 (I have to look up 2009 rules). The commercial fleet is allowed 12 inch fish and has a tonnage limit. Once they hit that limit, they are done.
The season was closed for a 10 day period which happened to fall right when those fish were biting the best. The fleet got close to the limit before the short close break. Then their catch got reset to zero. So after the break they can catch the entire quota again. The closing and quota reset allowed the commercial fleet to almost double their catch for the year. Not so fair and talk about depleting the fish stocks.
The article is talking about silver sides/spearing/shiners these are a bait fish. I have seen them ranging is size from 1/2 inch to 9 inches long. Not sure about weight, since these are small bait fish. The schools of them in the ocean are fewer then past years. So are the tuna and other fish we are going for. So more bait (food) should help the other fish that feed on them. Time will tell. Farming these bait fish and releasing them into the wild should be doable. I have not heard about any size limits on these bait fish. Now I need to read about how that Japanese guy is making out with the farming of blue fin tuna. If we can farm and release into the wild game fish people want, that would be great and help with the fish stocks. We can just farm these fish then send them to market, but there are those who still want to catch them.
It wasn't called "evolution", it was called "The Origin of the Species".
The debate is not over whether "evolution" occurs. Evolution is just iterated selection. The debate is over whether evolution leads to speciation.
Our ancestors were all strong and built like Schwarzenegger before the Predators came and hunted them down.
Just because humans are influencing the system, why is this artificial? We've exerted selection pressure on fish, and they have adapted to fit the pressure. How's this different from any other predator influencing a population?
I do take issue with this characterization:
This study demonstrates for the first time ever that
detrimental evolution in fish can be reversed, and
pokes a gaping hole in theoretical models suggesting
that genetic changes are impossible to "undo."
I don't think pushing the population back towards larger fish would exactly restore them to the genetic state that preceded our earlier intervention; the fish would probably find a different way to get bigger. This isn't an "undo."
-- kieran hervold
I would hazard a guess that there is a much higher percentage of atheists and agnostics among slashdotters than what is in the general population, so I just don't get the whole ascribing good/evil tags to human impact upon evolution. As I understand it, there is no right or wrong in evolution, only cause and effect.
I have said a number of tymes on /. that I am agnostic, "a" - without and "gnosys" - knowledge and so without knowledge as far as a higher power or being, but I still believe in good and bad. They are not exclusively a matter of religion or spirituality but are also part of ethics.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Who cares? I want to know what the fish think!
Seems to me that the trick is separating two effects
1) Fish which are larger because they are older are removed from the population, leaving the population on average smaller but not necessarily changing the genetic makeup.
2) Fish with genes which make them larger are removed from the population, leaving the population on average smaller, and reducing the frequency of "big fish" genes.
Leaving the population alone will eventually reverse the first effect. The second effect, on the other hand, should be permanent unless there is selection pressure for "big fish" genes. However, since the article states that bigger fish produce more offspring, it's rather likely that there is such pressure, so the researcher's results make sense.
Respectfully, I guess that I never quite understood that. Outside the context of the supernatural, how is behavior either good or bad? Why isn't it just homo sapiens behavior, like it would be in any other species?
We all have our own ideas of what's good or bad.
That behavior is either good or bad implies that we have a choice in our behavior (i.e. free will).
To a certain extent we all have free will, though not all of us can control our behavior all the tyme. I used to be easy going and didn't get angry, mad, or self defensive much. But now I know I can't always control myself. More than 10 years ago I survived a TBI or Traumatic Brain Injury and lost some abilities because of it. And I do mean "survived", while I was in a coma the docs told my family it would be a miracle if I lived. I disagree with those docs but that's something else.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Throw back the little ones
and pan-fry the big ones
use tact, poise and reason
and gently squeeze them
But, I wanted socialized health insurance!
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1147437&cid=27056793
The End of Days I read that you admit to using multiple accounts to mod "the End of Days" up thru using many other registered accounts you have here so you can "support yourself" and to mod others down and by your also using ac posts to bother others too. That makes you a loser and I saw you admitting it there.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1147437&cid=27056793
The End of Days admits to using multiple registered accounts to mod "the End of Days" up by using many other registered accounts he has here so he can "support himself" and to also do the same to mod others down and then using ac posts to bother them more. That makes you a loser and I saw you admitting it there in that url above. How humiliating and stupid of you to be caught doing that.
When I was in school, I used the following definitions:
*Evolution is a process in which natural selection causes speciation.
*Two organisms are members of the same species if they can interbreed and produce viable offspring.
Presumably, these new smaller fish could still interbreed with fish of the earlier type and produce viable offspring. If that were the case, then it would seem that speciation has not occurred and neither has evolution.
(I am not a biology major.)
Awww, you're stalking me. I'm honored. Thank you.
By setting min size limits as well as max size limits you get what's called disruptive evolution (IIRC). I.e.
one species will be pushed to divide into 2 different species, one of them being smaller than the size limit,
other one largr than the size limit, with nothing in between.
This is his standard MO - see here.
Modding yourself up using multiple account here and you admitted to it -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1147437&cid=27056793 ? You really are a loser aren't you? You're only getting back in return what you do to others, except in this case you were caught in the lame means you use to do it by using multiple registered accounts and then ac's on top of that so it appears you have 'backing'... lmao!
Everyone knows Jay Little publicly & hugely blew it @ Windows IT Pro mag's forums when apk pointed out to Jay Little that exchange can be helped by memory optimizers, where memory optimization program techniques are shown and recommended by MS as a fix to unstall a frozen exchange servers, after Jay Little proclaimed he was an expert on Exchange. in the "Memory Optimization Hoax" article.
Some expert Jay Little is, lol! An expert at looking the fool, planetwide.
On that same article apk not only showed he has had to help fix Dr. Russinovich's software in pagedefrag (by catching a rookie level hardcode on PHD M. Russinovich's code, as well as giving him the rationale why, and Dr. Russinovich thanked apk for it) but, where he also got Jay Little to look like a complete fool in front of the planet? Yes, it was.
I read the article where apk also put out 12 other points showing the same and it left all the 'naysayers', including Dr. Russinovich, without a valid response that disproved any of those same 12 points apk put out.
That is also where Jay Little shamefully left after also claming he hacked apk's system and stole his code but when asked to provide it, he had nothing and then had his page over at petitiononline.com removed for other stupidity he was doing and had his isp track him for it and email harassment also (which Jay Little and Jeremy Reimer ceased immediately), along with his friends.
Friends like Jeremy Reimer, the total "fake it till you make it" arstechnica goof who has no degree or certifications in computer sciences, nor years to decades of hands on professional experience in them either (who also tries to come off as a computer expert, lol, like Jay Little) where Reimer had portions of his website removed by his hosting provider for his website, and where he was also caught impersonating and libelling others (kind of like "The End of Days" does here under his multiple registered accounts -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1147437&cid=27056793 rotflmao).
Jeremy Reimer even impersonated a person named Martin Meszaros who denounced Reimer publicly for it in the end of that article also.
That's what I saw and what caused the fat buffoon Jay Little to libel apk. Pure "geek angst". Talk about embarassing.
(When that's all you have, little PERSONAL website rants? Well, you are just another "not man", like "The End of Days" is here using his multiple registered accounts to mod himself up and support himself, then using ac accounts to do the same. What a set of losers, lmao).
Involve the AA! Send them to the bottom of the ocean to change those bottom-dwelling creatures to live without alcohol!
Yes! You fish can do it too! Send in the Alcohol Anemones!
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
Never mind all that, I was talking about the crazy stalking. Can't you ever let go?
Other way around: Jay Little & Jeremy Reimer stalk apk over @ Windows IT Pro mag article "The Memory Optimization Hoax"? I read that article and it definitely appeared to me they had because apk was there 1st & then Reimer showed up off topic the whole time and was caught impersonating not only apk, but also a Mr. Martin Meszaros, and had his website taken apart for it by law enforcement and his hosting provider. I'd find better "sources" for your tirade, because, lol, @ this point it's very obvious that Jay Little who shot his mouth off over at a widely travelled forums and got himself kicked out of them after libelling others and for making statements that proved untrue in regards to Microsoft Exchange which he claimed he was an expert in and proved publicly he was anything but that. He is now frustrated into continuing his libellous tirade on his personal website. I also saw Jay Little get the boot over at msdn a couple times for the same type of behavior. Jay Little is a frustrated nobody and everyone knows it online. It's hilarious. Jay Little's rant just doesn't stand up very well versus the facts noted in the posting above yours. If anyone is stalking anyone it is probably Jay Little and Jeremy Reimer once again because after all, didn't they show up at Windows IT Pro magazine forums after falsely impersonating apk as well as making threats to his family's homes on Jeremy Reimer's website (OSY) It is all there at Windows IT Pro magazine forums in the "Memory Optimizaton Hoax", but strangely, none of that is mentioned (or even providing a url to the Windows IT Pro mag forum where Jay Little got whipped badly "oddly enough" (not)). Just like "The End of Days" hiding his post history here now, because he has been exposed as a multiple registered account user by his own words, and he mods himself up using them (low) as well as harassing others using them, and to 'support himself' here. What a loser.
See subject and url above:
"The End of Days", lol, now it's obvious you have hidden your post history here, after you admitted you use multiple registered accounts here to mod yourself up & make it appear that you have the backing of others here in your postings, and you are now trying to hide that evidence.
Evidence of that? Read here, all reading -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1147437&cid=27056793 [slashdot.org]
That makes you a total loser "The End of Days", rotflmao, and now everyone here knows it and should know it.
It now appears, based on your "hide my post history reaction", lol, that the pressure of the truth of your own words has forced you to try to hide that evidence, lol, which only adds to your admission of guilt.
Hilarious, predictable, and an exposure to all reading of just how LOW you are.
The End of Days, you're busted. I'd never do anything like that (as I cannot because I post as ac and can't mod myself up as you obviously have been exposed in doing on your part on these forums) but, I would think most others caught thus would leave or use another of your other multiple registered accounts here that you admit you have and be done with bothering others as you have and were caught in through your exchanges this week on this forums.
Don't you have any pride or shame?
Apparently not, especially on pride, even when you are caught in doing what you have with your own words no less.
(It must be true what was said through the exchange there that losers that have never accomplished anything that's ever been noted by others, especially in the field of computers and in noted respected publications, have no pride. Especially ones like yourself "The End of Days", who post here using multiple registered accounts as you do to get upward bound moderation points here and to support yourself via those accounts and ac replies on your part too and with you now hiding your post history to try to hide this proof of you doing all of the above -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1147437&cid=27056793 )
APK, you're a fucking nutcase.
Your profane reaction only shows your guilt via YOUR own words here -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1147437&cid=27056793 where you admit you use multiple registered accounts to mod your "The End of Days" posts up, and to harass others, as well as trying to create the illusion of others supporting your posts' points.
Wow. Talk about STUPID, rotflmao.
That's in addition to your frothing @ the mouth, lol, raging replies here now via ac account type replies "The End of Days", and now seeing you hiding your post history on your personal page here only evidences it all the more (not that it will do any good, you'll see). You stalked people here all week, & probably longer, so it is only giving you back your own medicine.
AND, after all: The URL above's where you admitted to using multiple registered accounts here to mod yourself up and make it appear that others back you here. Nobody said that, but good ole' "The End of Days" (who is probably Jeremy Reimer or Jay Little).
(Stalking others, being off topic doing so, and impersonating others? Those are typical arstechnica maneuvers of both Jay Little and Jeremy Reimer, who stalked apk to Windows IT Pro and to NTCompatible.com also after Jay Little that obese pompous buffoon blew it for himself, because he "oddly omits" ANY links to Windows IT Pro's article in his rant on his website... where he claimed he was an "expert on exchange", verbatim & literally, and was shown to be anything but that, when he failed to show that he was aware of the fact that Microsoft even advises the use of a memory optimization program to flush out fragmented memory to make exchange work again)
Jeremy Reimer posted also as "waarheid" and on his own forums admitted to posting as other names @ the Windows IT Pro forums. I have the article on screen now and am amazed at such stupidity. Only from Reiemr, lol, could this be possible. Utterly hilarious.
So, thank you: Especially considering the evidence that you so graciously provided shows that much from "The Memory Optimization Hoax" of Dr. Mark Russinovich's over @ Windows IT Pro shows your "sources" to be anything but valid (or honorable) - worms like the arstechnica gang (Jeremy Reimer & Jay Little)?
The arstech gang, like usual, is TOO easy to catch, just like you here now "The End of Days".
In fact, friends of mine are sitting here saying "I bet End of Days is either Jeremy Reimer or Jay Little".
I won't bet them that it's not they, because it is a good chance it is, they never change (and they always show their true colors and get caught impersonating & libelling others, lol, & get their websites removed from hosting providers (CrystalTech.com & petitiononline.com in Jay Little's case, total removals of his website, rotflmao... & Reimer having both his ISP + local law enforcement in Canada where he is from in a Detective Felton stopping him in his libellous tracks)).
You must be gluttons for punishment, as well as stupid, because your tricks (same as usual) always fail, lol, and blow up in your faces everytime. Too easy, & you only do that to yourself, everytime.
That said?
I've heard a saying that "insanity is repeating the same mistakes over and over again", & it appears you are doing it once more now, in posting as others, as is the "arstechnica proven modus operandi", which the Windows IT Pro article only shows more of on their part from the past.
Please - Keep providing the ammunition to shoot yourself down more, won't you? You're doing such a good job of it after all, lol!
So, because everywhere "The End of Days" posts, his admission of using multiple registered accounts here to mod himself up will appear right there to notify others that he is a low worm online (we all know the type) who got caught doing it.
Care to show us your PHD in psychiatry you have in order to back that statement (you know - the PHD you don't have)?
(Or, is it just that harassment, & libel, are your style alongside profane frothing @ the mouth replies like the one I am replying to here??)
Funny though, that that is Jay Little & Jeremy Reimer's style, also (they're the same arstechnica cretins you cited)! After all, lol - they TRY to use that exact same style that had them have law enforcement, their isps, and hosting providers track them and kick them off their servers in the end for and stop them cold for online also.
Face it - You're busted posting here under multiple accounts to support yourself and mod yourself up, just like Jeremy Reimer and Jay Little were caught doing @ Windows it pro magazine forums in "The Memory Optimization Hoax" article: UTTERLY HILARIOUS, thanks for the humor clown.
(AND, How "coincidental" that YOU use the same techniques, and like the arstechnica fools Jeremy Reimer and Jay Little? LOL - you get caught in them as you were here -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1147437&cid=27056793 )
I've got to thank you, again, for helping me out by posting Jay Little's "Private Rant" for his own problem of making himself look like a fool at both ms technet, msdn forums, & on Windows IT Pro (where he was kicked out of all of those spots for it and now is a pariah online) also, & it is VERY FUNNY why Jay Little omits putting any urls to where it started over @ Windows IT Pro forums on his personal website page (that was laughingly removed by 2 hosting providers already in CrystalTech.com &/or petitiononline.com for death threats).
Proof of that PHD, + a formal analysis, & a license to practice would be nice to see on your end in regards to your libellous statement.
(Because without it as well as doing an analysis of someone, I'd say that's libel. (However, everyone here reading knows you won't post proof of said degree on your part and that arstechica's Jeremy Reimer and Jay Little are no strangers to that from the evidence you graciously provided above)).
Botton-line on said degree? I don't believe you have one that is completed @ least. You're not fooling anyone, because if you had said training? You'd know a formal analysis would be conducted in order to make such an estimation. Physicians are required to do the same, when declaring someone physically unfit, that this is just std. scientific procedures & methods, & professional conduct.
Example? Hey, I can say "I am Bill Gates" online too you know, even though I am not. Not everyone lies like you arstech losers do, and if they do? They don't get cold busted as you have, lol!
Arstechnica people (which I also feel you are because you use the same tactics and get caught in them as they did over @ Windows IT Pro, which is why no reputable sites will post Jeremy Reimer's plagiarous re-submissions of others findings in his "reporting" (more like regurgitating))?
They sure are not big on proofs, truth, or being honorable (obvious here, everyone knows they are the "arseholes" of arstechnica). LOL, but they sure are big on posting as others, just like "The End of Days" does -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1147437&cid=27056793 )
Gee, how "coincidental" (not). Jeremy Reimer was caught posting over @ Windows IT Pro mag as Jeremy Reimer, waarheid, veritas, & others and was caught admitting to it no less, which is what got him into hot water with law enforcement, his isp, and his hosting provider (all of whom removed large tracts of his website forums posts)
&
Jay Little his fat lackey was completely ousted from both CrystalTech.com & petitiononline.com for death threats, libel, & other stupidities.
(I can see Jay being miserable though, because 1 look @ him tells the tale on that much (grotesquely fat - we ought to put him on the show "THE BIGGEST LOSER" & not just because he is fat, lol).
Anyone reading, as have my friends here now, can make their own judgements, but it is clear that since you brought up Jay Little earlier here (who has no urls to where he shamed himself at Windows it pro mag forums where it began with he harassing & stalking apk online), you are either he or Jeremy Reimer. Either way, again like usual? You lose and shamed yourself (but, you having no pride or visible practically useful accomplishments others have noted online does make sense why you have no pride: You have nothing to be proud of).
I pity you, I really do.
It is obvious that you have a posting pattern you use here once caught using multiple registered accounts here as you have to try to mod yourself up or support yourself, you then begin using anonymous coward replies in steady succession afterwards, yet no registered ones appear afterwards.
That's one way you give yourself away and after your profane replies here you lost any believability also.
Grow up and realize you've been caught in the act, and use another of your many registered accounts. I am almost certain that in doing so, You will probably try stalk this apk person again because your kind has no pride as was already stated here to which you have begun yet another A\C tirade and most likely you will lose again Mr. Jeremy Reimer or Mr. Jay Little
(and yes apk or anybody else who has put this red handed caught in the act impersonator of others online, I think it is Jeremy Reimer or his friend fatman Jay Little who they brought up above no less and gave themselves away with. I liked how you drew your conclusions because I felt great minds think alike).
He didn't start things, you did, where you were caught admitting you post as other registered user accounts here and then I took a look at your history of posts which you have tried to hide today and saw it is you starting trouble. No wonder you have been getting modded down all week. Between hiding your history now though and you literally admitting to posting as others here, you look like a 1st class loser.
Sorry but you do.
I'd start using your other accounts and chalk it off to defeat, but above all else take your own advice, & let it go. I saw what happenened to Reimer and Little while reading at Windows it pro and they act "just like you" (you are one of them imo), but, it's your life if you want to be continually making this apk look good for catching you in the act for the second time now online.
Insanity is always repeating the same mistake over and over as was said, and judging by how obvious you are, you must only possess an idiot's intelligence quotient, because 2 times now you have lost your ass online, once here now and over at windows it pro where you do not control the forums Jeremy Reimer (or Jay Little) and one'd think you would have learned by now, or, are stupid or that you are indeed a whacko.
I went to his website and that jay little is so fat he belongs on that new show about fat people losing weight called "The Biggest Loser" but not only because he is fat. I saw that moron posting as mrjay and jay little on the microsoft forums where he was kicked out for the same kind of moronic idiocy he is spewing on his puny website. It was funny as others have noted here how he put down this apk guy but Jay Little never once mentions why or lets you see a url to windows it pro forums where he had to run for stalking apk, making threats on his life, and then later screwing up stating he was an 'expert at exchange' and when that apk guy showed him that microsoft recommended memory optimizers for stopping memory fragmentation problems on exchange server and jay little had to admit he was not aware of that I knew that he was no expert. He then ran after stalking apk to ntcompatible.com and jay little got kicked out over there too and other arstech guys in dosfreak and others there oddly berated him also. Overall it was hilarious.
FYI, this is another of his accounts: http://slashdot.org/~Frozen+Void