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Watchmen Watched
In a blatant attempt to make my movie-going a valid business expense, I'm putting together some notes on Watchmen, and providing a place for you all to discuss it. The first thing I want to say is that I had high hopes: If you ask any serious comic book nerd what the most important book is, they will probably give you one of two answers, and "Watchmen" is the right one. So really Snyder, the director of 300, could only do wrong. Fortunately for me, he was very true to the book: just like 300, many sequences are shot-for-shot from the comics. Some stuff didn't make it, and the new ending has a different meaning to me (one that really isn't as satisfying, but is certainly cleaner). But what I can't say is if it was a good movie or not. I sorta wish I could get an impartial opinion of someone who isn't a nutty fan of the book to tell me how it stands as a movie. I imagine a bit slow, wordy and maybe a bit confusing in parts. I'll leave full reviews to others, but I enjoyed the picture and suspect you will too.
Graphic novel dilettante here, just curious. Sandman?
ceci n'est pas un sig.
Then let me spoil it for you: The comic book was amazing. Great artwork and mood, plenty of little bits of foreshadowing and symbolism, great "fleshing out" of the characters with plenty of introspection and investigation of the human condition, all fleshed out through the interesting "intermissions" between chapters. All in all very good except -
The hamhandedly written plan of Ozymandias. That plot kludge was worse than that time Anakin skywalker killed Amidala because he wanted to save her. LOL WUT? And the psychic "brain monster" was one of the stupidest things I've ever seen - did the artists draw inspiration from Ren and Stimpy?
I've heard that that part was mostly rectified in the movie, so I'm looking forward to watching it.
They ditched the giant squid in the end and blamed everything on Dr. Manhattan instead. The people who made the movie claimed that part had the same effect as the book. Really that's nothing like the book, and it misses the whole point. Makes me wonder what mook decided that'd be a better ending than the original.
I have nothing compelling to say
Too much graphic sex and foul language.
I went to see the midnight release in IMax and thought it was amazing. I was worried about the changed ending, but after seeing it, it works very well. The cinematography and choice of music was spot on and even though a lot of people bitched about the slow-mo fighting I thought it looked cool. Had one person with us who hadn't read the books and she thought the movie was "good" and she enjoyed it. I wouldn't call myself a huge fan by any stretch (the first time I read the comic was only a few months ago), but I did enjoy the comic and I think they did a good job on the movie. Oh, and yes I did go to work today, I'm just a bit tired now is all.
Curiosity was framed, Ignorance killed the cat.
Have never read a single one of the comics, nor even read many comics in general, and I thought the movie was F#$%^^& awesome. Rorschach's lines felt kinda forced into the movie for the first 1/3 is the only complaint I can think of, but it didn't hurt the movie. Also although they do have sex scenes galore it felt like they belonged in the movie unlike most movies nowadays where they just suddenly go off plot for a gratuitous sex scene to help the movie sell. Although Dr. Manhattan didn't need to be showing off quite so much. [I saw it in the morning so I wouldn't have to deal with crowds, my work hours are flexible]
Ditto on the Midnight show. It looked really cool in the trailers. I have never read the comic. I was a little lost, and some of it seemed pretty drawn out. Visually awesome/beautiful. Good story, but don't go into it thinking black and white/good and bad. More like a distopian society that doesn't care about right and wrong anymore. Some very dark themes in the story.
I'm going to have to read the comic, sorry graphic novel, now.
Well, I must admit that I'm cheap though. Not that I can't spare the few dimes to see this in the theater, but I'd rather download this one and see it in the comfort of my own home.
No insanely marked up drinks and popcorn, no talking chicks behind you. No, just you and the movie. And you can go pee if you want to. Just hit 'pause' on VLC.
Yeah, I'm cheap. Or, rather, I don't like to fill the coffers of the local theaters for a sub-par performance (crap focus and crap sound) compared to the flawless experience at home. I believe in rewarding the makers of stuff. I
don't believe in rewarding brokers of stuff.
So I'm reading some of the reviews/opinions about the movie, and I'm pleased to see that a lot of people seem to get the idea that most of these "superheroes" are just people in costumes. Night Owl has all the gadgets etc., but he doesn't really seem to have the temperament to be a hero. Plus, though he may have all the gadgets and everything, it's safe to say that the Owlship can fly for the same reason that the sky is full of dirigibles and people smoke weird cigarettes with bubbles at the end -- namely, because of Dr. Manhattan.
Dr. Manhattan, we are told, is the only one of the bunch with any superpowers. And, unfortunately for all the rest of the so-called superheroes, he has the ultimate superpower -- basically, control of time and space. Nobody else is ever going to match him. Might as well close the book. The catch, however, is that all this godlike power has made him (quite naturally) detached from humanity.
OK, that's all well and good so far. But I always thought that one of the major, MAJOR themes of the novel revolved around Ozymandias, and the reader's slowly-dawning realization that there might not be only one superhero in the world. There might be two.
Dr. Manhattan may be the world's only literal comic-book superhero, but Ozymandias represents more the Nietzschian "superman" -- a normal human being who has transformed himself into the ultimate that the human race can hope for. He's billed as "the smartest man on Earth," sure -- but the mere fact that he [REDACTED] shows that he's also one of the top physical specimens on Earth, too. That guy was one tough mofo! And by the end of the story, we see that Ozymandias really, actually can catch a bullet in his bare hand; it's no parlor trick.
So the ultimate question is: What does it mean to be a superman?
We've shown that it has distanced Dr. Manhattan from humanity. But it's easy to say "that's only natural, Dr. Manhattan really isn't human anymore," and maybe in fact he is redeemed at the end. But Ozymandias is human, yet his superiority over the rest of us seems to have isolated him in exactly the same way as Dr. Manhattan. Maybe he can't fly to Mars, but think of him sitting in that big chair at the bottom of the world with his cat for company, watching rows of television screens bringing him images of the decay of civilization. Think about what he decides to do about it. Is there humanity in his plan? Is he a hero? A villain? Does he find redemption?
Does the world need supermen? Is there even a place for them?
I always thought these were some of the major themes of Watchmen, but I rarely hear them discussed, and it's not clear to me whether they're represented in the movie. (Are they?)
Just thought I'd throw it out there to give us all something to waste time with on a Friday afternoon. Cheers!
Breakfast served all day!
I saw it last night at midnight. I was vaguely familiar with the story of Watchmen from looking it up on Wikipedia before hand...but I had no idea what I was walking into.
To say it blew my mind would be an understatement. I walked out of that theater disgusted with humanity, but apathetic towards any attempt at making things better. Its like I'm pissed off at everyone but I don't care. Its a very, very weird feeling.
I feel the way I do, but that overwhelming sense of despair is coupled with a new appreciation for my child and wife. My wife has a disorder which doctors told her would make it 100% impossible for her to have kids...well we had a daughter. I've always found my daughter's existence to be the closest thing to a miracle I've seen in my life and the philosophies that dabble into the subject of life as a miracle only reaffirmed my adoration for her life and my wife.
This story has changed me. I cannot credit the movie for this, and I will read the book, but all the same I feel different from watching this...I saw a bit of myself in every character's good and bad points. I hate myself yet feel superior to my friends and colleagues. I have to go since I just peed my pants.
No, I'm not saying I hate it at all. The book was just not for me, I'm NOT into superheroes, think dressing up in tights for a fight is kinda silly. I am a HUGE sci-fi fan though and this got a ton of hype, so I gave it a chance. I'm still expecting the movie to rock (I'm going tonight) but the whole graphic novel thing leaves me dry.
You know, I'm tired of bullshitting my way through life. I call them as I sees them. And that is a serious confession, coming from me.
The whole song and dance about Hollywood grinds my whole existance. I believe in making things. In combining things in non-obvious ways. My whole upbringing has thought me to further the cause. Whatever that may mean, btw.
Point is, I value 'creators'. If you happen to make something that doesn't already exist I'm all for it. Maybe you invent a new mathematical proof or algorithm, a new kind of music, or some practical application of science, you have my backing. Further the cause, and all that.
However, the brokers of stuff? The lawyers? The middle-men? No love for them at all. If it were my call, I would find a nice wall to put them against it. Not a popular view, I know.
Point is, we as mankind, are in this together. Find a way to cope as one, or face trouble. My tribe is the engineers, the makers, the original inventors. I think my tribe will prevail after all is said and done. Choose carefully, grasshopper.
Either I don't understand your reaction (between the beer and not having English as a mother tongue), or you paint a very disturbing picture of the world.
The day that marketing decides on serious development is the day I pull the trigger to end it all. It's that simple.
Yes, I do understand that the whole business world uses the engineers. And by 'uses' I mean the most degrading meaning possible. We are dirt, in your eyes.
But know that we don't care (and possibly don't know) about this. We exist to solve problems, to find new stuff. To know the things we did not know.
You wouldn't understand. And I mean that in the nicest way possible. Please know that we still love you, we care about you. Let us Get Shit Done and all's well.
It follows the spirit of the comic in a Hollywood package (read, can't possibly be identical). In some ways it's better - real people doing the same things is quite vivid and confrontational, thus the 'R'. The characters convey the same foibles and characteristics in much less 'time'. I like the revised ending... the alien thing seems a bit gratuitous to me anyway; at this point, we are meant to be left pondering the fact that Ozymandius is right, damnit!
The soundtrack rocks too. Make sure you see it in a decent theatre on a big screen with a honking sound system, so Jimm'y's All Along the Watchtower and Archie's thrusters can have full effect.
All in all, given there is an Director's Cut, extended edition with the comic book in a comic book coming, I'd almost be prepared to think this could grow into a cult film (not certain though). It's good enough to warrant watching the Watchmen again.
The entire book is built off of the brain monster: it is a reference to Starro, the alien starfish that is the first villain the Justice League fights together, and symbolically it represents how Ozymandias's plan is to force the world to band together.
It's also the final and most important element of novel, which is the deconstruction of the superhero genre. The octopus punctuates that deconstruction and really says something clear about super heroes: The monster-of-the-week has appeared, and this time there is no last minute batman plan or newly developed superman power that can stop it. All of the heroes are gone. None of the heroes ever were heroes. Not to mention that Ozymandias, the real villain, has shown himself to be as much a part of the game as the others despite his claims to the contrary. His ends-justify-the-means attitude is just as arrogant as the other Watchmen's.
Understanding the octupus is really, really, important in terms of the book's literary value.
It has changed in america a lot since the 70's. there was a bloom of nudity in the 70's- tho mostly female. Even pg-13 movies had brief full frontal topless scenes.
I'm not sure how you read my reaction-- even rereading your post, it's unclear.
My reaction is this... minutes of swinging blue dong. A very realistic sex scene. Side and rear male and female nudity that is very clear and extensive.
Only the blue dong was anything new- and it was presented in an entirely non-sexual manner. but it felt a lot different than it did on the panel where it is 1/8" of an inch long and isn't bouncing and swing around.
Likewise- the violence was clearly extreme in the comic book- people bloodily and viciously killed, throats slit, etc. Some was explicit which made all the implied stuff more real. OTH, seeing compound fractures inflicted on screen is disturbing at any age. it violates my body image and squicks me. the arm cutting scene was a lot less intense (my main thought was... I don't remember that from the comic-- I think they slit his throat first there) than the very clear compound fracture breaking scenes.
The sex scenes I wouldn't want my 15 year old to see but the violence scenes I could do without them seeing until they are 17+.
That said- as an adult and fan of the comic book- it was incredible. And the editing was top notch. I hate movies where the fight scenes are so confused that you can't even tell who is fighting who. You had fight scenes with a dozen moving people and never ever lost track of what was happening. And it was very credible-- Rorschach vs the swat guys was bad ass, matched the comics, and ended just as it should too.
I recommend the film highly. it's the kind of film that *should* be made that we stopped making after the initial wave of "X" films in the 70's. This would have probably gotten an "X" back then. That's when "X" meant adult- instead of porno.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
The first is my friend who went with me to watch it last night. He said during the intermission that he feels like he's walked into a sequel and was missing lots of information, to which I replied that the novel went just like this. After the movie he said he enjoyed it very much.
My other friend went with his wife and they both said that it was a movie you had to stay really focused and concentrated on to understand, but that they think it's one of the best comic-book-based movies they've seen in years.
I've read the novel and loved it, so my view doesn't count ;)
"Programming is life, the rest is mere details"
I'm not talking about the cigarette burns. I'm talking about the 'Coded Anti-Piracy' dots that denote what theatre the cam was used in. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coded_Anti-Piracy
If I notice 'em, I go to the manager afterwards and ask for a refund. You'd be surprised how many theaters have "if you are not happy with your movie..." policies. I explain that the print was visible distorted and ask for a refund. I've gotten three so far.
Advice: on VPS providers
The cinematography and choice of music was spot on...
Ugh. The choice of music was not "spot on." It was probably the worst part of this film. Overall, I very much enjoyed the movie, but the song choices were so cliched and overblown. "Ride of the Valkyries" for Vietnam? "All Along the Watchtower" as they hunt for Ozymandias? "Sound of Silence" for the funeral scene? And the worst was the shitty arrangement of "Hallelujah" during the sex-in-the-sky scene.
It was, for the most part, bad song choices, blared in your ears, trying to re-create feelings that other movies have already established with the same songs.
The only point I'll give for music was the understated "Everybody Wants to Rule the World" as Ozymandias gives a tour to various business executives. The person in charge of music should be ashamed for making the music a distraction rather than a smoothly integrated part of the movie.
I'm Peggy.
While I liked the movie overall, I do have one thing to say: Leonard Cohen's "Hallelujah", particularly the version he sang himself, is possibly the most incongruous song you could ever choose for a love scene. The entire theater was laughing their asses off, myself included. I don't know how anyone could possibly have thought that was a good idea, except maybe as some kind of bizarre joke.