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The Last Will and Testament of Circuit City

Harry writes "Sunday is the final day of business for Circuit City, the once-dominant national consumer electronics chain done in by the rise of Best Buy, the crummy economy, and multiple failings of its own. I paid a final visit of respect to my local store, and found that they'd gotten rid of just about all the unopened electronics products, and were therefore selling off stuff like broken computers and the toilet-paper dispenser from the restroom. Whether or not you were ever a fan, it was a sad scene." NPR has a segment on the end of the Circuit City era as well.

37 of 600 comments (clear)

  1. Really? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Circuit City cut their own throat in a series of dreadful missteps(culminating in their brilliant "Hey, let's sack all the halfway competent salespeople and attempt to hire them back at downright insulting newb wages" scheme), their demise is well deserved. Even in death, their prices are high and their service lousy. Why is their death sad?

    1. Re:Really? by damn_registrars · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why is their death sad?

      For a lot of people the only substantial consumer electronics retailers are best buy and circuit city. After circuit city is officially gone, best buy will have numerous markets without even token competition for consumer electronics (unless you count walmart).

      Hence even losing a lousy retailer is still a loss for the consumer. One could potentially expect to see best buy starting to carry even less variety of product, as they won't have much to worry about competing against.

      --
      Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    2. Re:Really? by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ...best buy will have numerous markets without even token competition

      Buy online. Between newegg and Amazon I get everything I need with no hassle and good prices. The only time I have bothered to go to a brick and mortar store like BB in recent memory was for a cable. After seeing how outrageous the price was I went home and ordered that online as well. I'll pay a 100% premium for a last minute local need, but not a 1000% premium.

    3. Re:Really? by boyko.at.netqos · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'll second you on "Prices high."

      By the time I checked in, the store was sparse as hell. However, everything - even with the discounts - was about the same price as I could get from Best Buy, down the street. I actually looked up the price of the big stack of HDTVs they were selling - you're trying to sell me a $1400 TV for $1500, claiming that you're doing me a favor by marking it down from $2200?

      Good Riddance.

      --
      I used to work for NetQoS. I no longer do, but want to keep the excellent karma attached to this account.
    4. Re:Really? by jlarocco · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Circuit City only went out of business because most consumers already realized Best Buy, Walmart and the Internet offered better deals. In other words, they weren't even competing when they were in business. If they were offering a decent alternative they'd have been able to get enough customers to stay in business. If anything this just forces Circuit City's few remaining customers to wake up and realize what everybody else already knew: better deals can be had else where.

      And I wouldn't worry about Best Buy becoming a monopoly. There's still Walmart, Target, Fry's and Ultimate Electronics. And then there's the Internet with hundreds of websites competing against Best Buy and each other.

    5. Re:Really? by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because at one time they were an AWESOME company. They were the first big chain to accept returns for any reason, no questions asked. At the time, it was a big idea, there were newspaper articles trying to figure out how they could afford to do that. Their motto was "Come to circuit city. Where service is state of the art."

      Then over time, other companies started accepting returns for any reason as well. The gimmick of "matching your competitor's price" stopped bringing in as much traffic. People in the US aren't actually willing to pay for good service, so the service quality started to decline, and they failed to keep up with their competitors.

      But back in the day, they were really innovative (well, as innovative as one can be as a chain retailer).

      --
      Qxe4
    6. Re:Really? by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Those of us who like to do business in cash so that Uncle Sam isn't privy to our every fucking purchase are just left out in the cold, then? Progress cuts both ways.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    7. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Heck, for the last-minute need, even Staples can be a better choice for a keyboard or cable than Best Buy. I haven't even thought about Circuit City in years - that's how bad they were. They were a downright insult to consumer electronics and they deserve to be gone. Their presence wasn't even high enough quality to foster competition for Best Buy.

    8. Re:Really? by khellendros1984 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Most of the things I order online come from smaller companies that wouldn't have gotten my business without being online. Some come from individuals on Ebay or Amazon. Some come from large companies online that offer decent prices and shipping. You always pay a price premium for convenience and speed.

      Oh, you need the competition between the brick and mortar stores? OK. So, how do we guarantee that? Punish the big stores with higher taxes and give tax incentives to the smaller ones? Bail out failing companies? Companies fail for a reason. CC wasn't providing sufficient competition to BB. To make it worse, they were terribly mismanaged. If they had declared bankruptcy earlier, they might have still been in business. If they hadn't gotten rid of their best salespeople, they might not have gone bankrupt in the first place.

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    9. Re:Really? by The+Man · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The real problem is that unless you are looking for a very mainstream part your local shop probably doesn't carry it or is out of stock. Sometimes this is true of even very basic stuff, and the big box stores are rarely any better than the independents (the worst of all is, of course, Frys). It's surprising that the B&Ms don't understand that the ONLY reason anyone does business with them is because we want/need something RIGHT NOW, but they clearly don't.

      My canonical example is Central Computer, which has a reasonably convenient store in the City two blocks from a bus stop. They're local and I really want to like them despite their Taiwanese sketchiness, but they never have what I want. Wifi router? On the web site but not in stock. SATA disks? They have hundreds of the desktop grade one in stock but the enterprise grade are on backorder. A case? They'll have to have it shipped in from another store; maybe 2 days. The last time I was there I spent a lot of time wandering around just to see what they DO stock. What I learned is that there are plenty of USB cables, CPU fans, about 2 dozen of a single model of 24-port 100Mbit Ethernet switch, and single display case boxes of just about everything from graphics cards to parallel ATA controllers (I guess for emergency repair of those boxes you bought in 1998). It's anyone's guess how many of them are actually available for purchase, but I'm willing to bet that the one you want isn't.

      This is exactly the sort of reason B&M retailers are doing so poorly. Circuit City of course had its own company-specific problems, but the problem is much bigger than any one company. The bottom line is that there are only three differences between B&Ms and Internet retailers. Two of them work for the B&Ms: in-person sales and service, and instant gratification. The third works against them: the difference in cost per square foot between a retail storefront in the City and a warehouse in Fernley, Nevada. In order to stay in business, B&Ms need to put their two advantages to work at least well enough to offset the differences in their cost structure. Circuit City clearly failed at the service side of things; I don't know how good their selection was but if they're anything like Best Buy they probably failed there too (I don't need 3000 square feet of CDs; this is a bloody electronics shop, not a record shop!). Other B&Ms will all go the same way unless they wise up and start using their differentiators to win business. Head-to-head competition by doing away with in-person sales and service and stocking only a few items in a space clearly focused more on promotion and hype than selection isn't going to win my business, and I doubt it's going to win yours either.

      I really really want to like B&Ms but they are forcing me onto the Internet for just about everything but food. We are all Just In Timers now.

    10. Re:Really? by EvanED · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Online isn't a complete substitute. I can't walk into Amazon's camera department and give a bunch of the cameras a try to test their shutter release delay. I did do that in Circuit City and Best Buy a couple years ago. (Wound up buying a camera from CC; it was on sale, and with the free SD card that came with it, wasn't much worse than online, and I had reason to want it then.)

      Of course, you can still go into Best Buy to give it a shot, then buy online, but if the hypothesis of the parent is correct and people would lose selection, that's not great. (You can also look at stuff like dpreview.com, since they actually have these numbers for some cameras, but it's hard to change "0.1sec" to "acceptable/unacceptable".)

    11. Re:Really? by Atlantis-Rising · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Those of us who are afraid of Uncle Sam spying on all our credit card transactions are called paranoid.

      --
      "It is possible to commit no errors and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." -Peak Performance
    12. Re:Really? by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Fry's separates the nerds from the kiddies. It's a supermarket of electronics. It's not the only one; for example, Micro Center (are they still around? Maybe Fry's is the only one, but who cares right now) would be sort of a Lucky's or maybe a Randall's. Fry's is more like Costco. If you want it, they have it, or something like it. They might not have the quality or price you want, but often they will offer you both. And while it's entirely possible to buy some total bullshit in a box because they accepted a completely bullshit return, they also will rarely argue with you about taking a return if you seem to know what you're talking about. If you don't, they're not hard to fool - they don't either. On the other hand, most of those small "got to have one" parts are horribly overpriced, for example compact flash cards (yowza)

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    13. Re:Really? by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Rent is expensive. And security, especially shoplifting and employee theft, is a _bitch_ for inner city stores that carry valuable personal items, like TV's and phone cards.

    14. Re:Really? by BVis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Some of us have the radical belief that marketers don't have a FSM-given right to market to us. If I want widget X, 30 seconds online will tell me where I can get it, and a range of prices.

      Besides, who needs to justify their desire for privacy? Is it really anyone's business what brand of widget X I buy? And has anyone realized the fact that lots of people will INTENTIONALLY either 1) not buy that brand or 2) patronize that retailer if their advertising is seen as too intrusive or annoying?

      If someone wants to know what purchases I've made, they can pay me to tell them. I'm not in the habit of giving away valuable information for free.

      --
      Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
  2. Ya pretty much by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I quickly had written it off my list of places to go when it was in business and hadn't been there in years. When they were shutting down, I figured I'd go and check to see what kind of deals were available. Answer? None that I could find. Most things were no better than retail, I could go to Best Buy and get the same price. Oh sure they were "marked down"... but they'd been marked up first. There were a few things I saw that were lower than you might see in most brick and mortar stores, but not by much and not any lower than you'd find online.

    I never understood why they thought that their high prices were sustainable. I mean I understand that retail stores charge more than online. No problem, you are paying for the convenience. However they charged more than other retail stores. Well guess what? I can drive to Best Buy just as easy.

    Also you can justify higher prices with better service/experience. Some high end AV shops are like that. The prices are high, even when you consider the gear they sell (which is already very high priced) but the service is top notch. You can spend hours milling around, trying out things. They have knowledgeable people who will answer your questions and such. Thus you are willing to pay more.

    Well CC didn't have that, at least not the ones I'd tried. Their sales people didn't know shit and were rather pushy.

    Ok so if you aren't going for the service, and aren't going for the price, why go? Well the answer to that question for me and apparently many others was "you don't." Thus they are out of business.

    I feel bad for their employees as this is not a good time to be looking for a job at all, and probably doubly bad looking for a retail job, but I do not feel bad for Circuit City. They were a crap business, and that's the whole idea in a capitalist market: You run a crap business, you fail and are replaced by someone better. Best Buy is by no means perfect, but they are better than CC.

  3. What took so long? by grapeape · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Circuit City was dead to me when they lauched their DIVX plan back in the late 90's between that and their jacked up warranty policy (back then if you returned an item that you had purchased an extended warranty for, they pocketed the warranty fees) I had vowed never to step foot in one again. I managed to steer free from CC until a few months ago when I went by the local one to pick over the corpse during its going out of business sale.

  4. They didn't know who they were competing with by mrroot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I really think their biggest problem is the whole time they thought they were competing with Best Buy, but they were really competing with Target, Walmart, and online retailers like Newegg, Buy.com, and TigerDirect. Best Buy should try to learn from their demise.

    --
    I Heart Sorting Networks
    1. Re:They didn't know who they were competing with by Grishnakh · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And I thought the whole point of a giant chain is that you can expect consistent a product and experience from every location.

  5. Even in death they sucked by gelfling · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Even under liquidation they were selling their stuff for maybe 10% off. I can't tell you how many I watched walking out and telling each other "This is why they're going out of business..."

  6. Another perspective on the closure by OzPeter · · Score: 5, Insightful
    This is a letter in the Richmond Times Dispatch today giving a Circuit City workers perspective on the closure and the almost lynch mob attitude of people after bargains once the closure was announced. (Richmond is/was the headquarters of the company). The letter starts off as

    "I am writing this message in representation of the employees of Circuit City here in Richmond who are having to deal with inexcusable conditions being brought on by customers with retribution. Walk into any Circuit City store on any given day and you will find a handful of employees and a sea of customers. The fact that people have flocked to our stores en masse on a daily basis, creating Black-Friday style crowds, has been insulting to our employees and our business alike.

    Where was this support when we needed it? Liquidation, for us, has brought great havoc on a series of levels. I've been working for the company for almost two years, and I have never seen anything worse than I have seen over the past month. Customers have gotten enraged over the fact that our discounts aren't good enough for them."

    While I only shopped there if I wanted something *now*, I did go in once the closures were announced and you could see people loading up on stuff just because it was some % off. I never saw anything that I couldn't get a similar deal online at the time (and also came with warranty) so I couldn't understand the why people descended on the store en masse. The only explanation I can think of is a feeding frenzy brought on by greed. So from that perspective I can understand where the letters author was coming from

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    I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    1. Re:Another perspective on the closure by mattwarden · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What a stupid letter. The author complains about crowds in their store. How do you think they got there? Perhaps it had something to do with their company advertising amazing liquidation deals.

      And then the customers take time out of their day to travel to CC to get these amazing liquidation deals, and there are none.

      So they get pissed, asking where the great deals are.

      Please indicate the point where you consider this to be a departure from completely rational behavior.

      Perhaps blaming the customer instead of mismanagement is part of the reason you're going out of business.

  7. A sad day by girlintraining · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It was a sad day when Enron closed its doors after making horrible management decisions that cost their employees, customers, and the general public billions. But curiously enough, nobody ever blames management. "The market is bad." Yes, the big bad evil market -- tell me, even in a recession or depression, does the market for electronics suddenly disappear? No. It might shrink, but a business that's properly built will shrink with it, not simply die off. A corporate mass-extinction like this has only one cause: Bad management. Period.

    --
    #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
  8. What I like to know is where their managements are by Lead+Butthead · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Circuit City cut their own throat in a series of dreadful missteps(culminating in their brilliant "Hey, let's sack all the halfway competent salespeople and attempt to hire them back at downright insulting newb wages" scheme), their demise is well deserved.

    What happened to their boneheaded execs that cut their own throat? Took their golden parachutes and went screwing other companies?

    --
    ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
  9. Never liked CC stores by enderwig · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I never put much stock into the psychological games retailers play to get you to buy products until I went into a Circuit City. Whoever they got to design their stores obviously didn't understand what makes people feel at ease and happy. Every time I stepped into a CC, I couldn't wait to get the hell out. Something about the layout, the ceiling, and/or the lighting just made me feel uncomfortable. Then on course, you had the staff. When you wanted help, they were no where around. When you wanted to be left alone, they came in droves.

    I admit their online->in store pickup functioned much smoother than Best Buy's.

    1. Re:Never liked CC stores by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      >

      In every goddamn department, I was bothered by someone asking me if they could help me, and if I'm finding everything alright. I expected it the first time - but after about six times with six different staff members, I actually complained to the manager about it.

      "We're just trying to be helpful."

      I now know what I'm finding so distasteful about it - when I was browsing, I was interested in looking at what they had, and my concentration was on browsing. My concentration got interrupted every time I was interrupted; "Can I help you" only helps when you're looking for a specific product.

      Keep in mind, the next five people probably didn't know you already turned down the first. Some people, shy people wanting help, do like being asked. I'm not like that and I too hated being talked to by staff. I'm shy too, so I felt they were asking because the managers wanted them to ask and so felt complicit in "forcing" them. Staff in these stores are damned if they do and damned if they don't. The problem for customers now is that instead of comparing CC vs. BB flyer specials, and having local and direct competition, you're left with whatever Best Buy offers if Target/Walmart/etc aren't around (urban markets like Manhattan).

      What's worse is that there is one less retailer that the electronics makers can use as leverage against Best Buy. The toy makers bend over backwards trying to keep Toys R Us alive, because when they go down, it's nothing but Chinese plastic that'll be moved through Walmart. Nothing creative and new (albeit still mainly made in China). Basically, the business ecology just got a little closer to monoculture.

  10. Hopefully... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Ford and GM will be next. It will be sad to seem them go, but someone smarter than the idiots running those companies will fill in their places.

    Nobody bailed out Edsel and Packard and tons of other motor corporations 'back in the day' that went under, and the world kept on turning.

    If you get lazy and don't inovate or rape your customers (Circuit City) then you eventualy lose. BestBuy is big now sure, but the same thing will happen to them eventually, especially at the rate they discard customers.

  11. Re:Was decent, once upon a time by kuzb · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I found the exact same thing happened to Radio Shack up here in Canada. It used to be the go-to place for all things electronic. As a kid I remember getting all my project kits and much of my early computer equipment there. The staff were slowly replaced. They went from knowledgeable people who knew what a diode was for to people who had problems operating a screwdriver.

    Then as the years went on it got more and more ghetto. The electronics were cheap and the store was littered with useless novelty gadgets nobody wanted. The staff got more and more aggressive with pushing their extended warranties. I worked there for a short time as a kid and the EWPs (Extended Warranty Plans) are pushed so hard it is amazing. Customers are hounded for all their personal details and the staff are trained to tell them it is for warranty information - whether an EWP was involved or not. The wage was hourly but you got more if you sold more of their useless trash and EWPs as it went from an hourly wage to commission if you sold enough.

    When Radio Shack got bought out and became 'The Source' it got even worse. My once beloved Radio Shack had become the dictionary definition of everything I hate in a store.

    One might ask what all this has to do with Circuit City though. In 2004 Radio Shack was bought out by Circuit City from InterTAN. It then became 'The Source by Circuit City'.

    --
    BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
  12. Re:Was decent, once upon a time by Brianwa · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sometimes when it's 4pm and you need a diode right now and are willing to pay ten bucks to get it, you have no choice but to go to the most well equipped radio shack in the area and shell out.

  13. Re: YA RLY by stonewallred · · Score: 3, Insightful

    bought a TV there several years ago. good knowledgeable salesman, steered me away from an idiot mistake i was trying to make, matched my price range and excellent service. Went back several times and paid a higher price than on-line or what it would have cost for BB. when they sacked him and the rest of the competent salesmen, i never went back. I would rather pay 10% more and get excellent service, and 20% more for excellent service and convenience.

  14. Re:What do they expect? by girlintraining · · Score: 1, Insightful

    They shouldnt blame their customers for simply looking for an honest bargain.

    Honest bargains hangout with unicorns and Santa Claus. But more seriously, where does this entitlement attitude come from? There's this mass misconception that products are "marked up". Really? From what baseline? It's like saying pharmaceutical companies are "ripping us off" based solely on the price being charged. Because there's a perception it should be cheaper. But ask those same people about the costs of: accounting, auditing, testing, evaluations, legal representation, insurance, research, development, marketing, quality control, and security. What, did you hear something? No? Me neither, just the wind, and it sounded like it was saying "cheaper, cheaper, cheaper..." Logic be damned.

    People are quick to point out it only costs pennies to make a pill, but they think all those other costs should be paid for "by somebody else". No, that's not how business works, and it's just as true in retail as anywhere else. And answering back with crap about "customer loyalty" and "service quality" is just that -- crap. There haven't been "customers" or "clients" in this economy in about 20 years. What we have now is "consumers" -- and consumers do. not. care. about loyalty to the brand or service and quality of manufacture in the vast majority of cases.

    --
    #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
  15. Darwinian extinction by unfortunateson · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Circuit City won't be mourned, except that it's nice to have an alternative everyonce in a while when you need to have something, and it's out of stock at Best Buy. Yes, I get the majority of my media and tech stuff online, but CC didn't start that way, they started as an appliance vendor. So did Best Buy, and there's a nice bright corner of BestBuy that nobody notices that has fridges, stoves, microwaves and that kind of crap you only buy once every ten years. So what did CC do wrong? 1) Crappy selection: Once upon a time, I liked CC's CD selection better than Best Buy: it was large, well organized, and deep. More recently, they've got squat for selection, the same lousy prices as every other retailer, and when they've got big sales, everything's just basically in a pile, no alphabetizing to speak of beyond the first initial, if you're lucky. 2) Crappy service: Buying a camera or a laptop (I helped an idiot relative buy one of each, even though I told her the prices could be beaten online), requires the attention of a sales droid, and printing out about eight yards of paper, none of which are a receipt. 3)Computers, HD-TV, Blu-Ray are a commodity: if you can get them in WalMart, they're not a specialty item. Don't sell them like they are. but mainly 4) Failed to adapt: Their stores continued, even after recent revamps, to look dark and scary, the way TV stores always used to look in the 70's. Who wants to go in there? The color red may have been a failure too: it means warning, danger, stay away (then again, BestBuy's black on yellow is the classic warning color combo, our eyes see that contrast better than anything else). I seldom went into a Circuit City. The ones nearest to me were closed long ago (one's an Off Track Betting parlor, another became a Bed Bath and Beyond). They won't be missed.

    --
    Design for Use, not Construction!
  16. The American Dream Does Not Come True by TW+Burger · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Circuit City is text book example of what attempting to become very rich very quickly almost always results in. It is a perfect analog of the national and world economy. The blue print for demise Circuit City followed:
    Action: Remove staff with knowledge and ability and start paying less to less capable people.
    Reason: Keep immediate profits high.
    Outcome: Reduced sales due to less customer service.

    Action: Leave prices high.
    Reason: Keep immediate profits high.
    Outcome: Failing to see that the consumer electronics market is shifting to a Walmart model (aggressive pricing, low profit, high volume) sales go down.

    Action: Eliminate deep discounts on open box, out of production, or discontinued merchandise.
    Reason: Keep immediate profits high.
    Outcome: Reduced repeat and casual traffic resulting in reduced sales.

    This is what happens when any business runs itself based on the principle of "Keep immediate profits high" rather than "Keep customers coming back".
    Gordon Gecko was wrong - greed is bad.

    1. Re:The American Dream Does Not Come True by TW+Burger · · Score: 3, Insightful

      P.S.
      Keep your customers happy and your employees happy and your business will be happy and can last forever. If you are not happy, you are the problem.

  17. Epic fail by UnixUnix · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Over the years I've bought a couple of laptops at Circuit City, mostly because I found them at a good discount. Service was either non-existent or worse: it took them 15 minutes to fetch from their stockroom what I asked for, and then it was up to me to notice that the model number was the wrong one. They didn't know what they were selling.

    It was also downright insulting when they checked at the exit all bag contents against the sales slip, radiating suspicion that their customers were thieves. Fry's Electronics has an exit check too, but much more low-key

    These days I tend to visit B&M stores for a hands-on experience and then order what I choose online. I would accept paying a $50 markup for the convenience of having a $1000 laptop in my hands on the spot, but B&Ms seem to want more than that. It doesn't fly.

  18. The spreadsheet won't help. by ShadowSystems · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Banks notoriously like to post your transactions NOT in the order in which you make them, but in the order the merchant reports them.
    So if you've got a balance of $1,000 on close-of-business Friday, make $900 worth of purchases over the weekend, you should have a balance of $100.
    First thing Monday, you know you've got a large bill coming due on Wednesday, so you make a $500 deposit, thus bringing your balance to $600.
    You make the payment Wednesday, taking your balance down to $50, and your Cheque Register (& spreadsheet) show your balance as $50.
    Except the Bank posted them in some twisted order that leaves you with $200 worth of NSF fees because you supposedly left your account overdrawn.
    And there isn't a damned thing you can do about it because they say "We can't control when the Merchants post your transactions."
    Yeah, except my Cheque Register & spreadsheet show all my transactions AND the balances, and MY numbers don't match YOUR numbers.
    Guess who loses - it sure as hell isn't the bank because YOU get to pony-up the NSF fees.
    Changing banks won't help, they all do it.
    So, please, honestly, explain to me how the spreadsheet is supposed to help?
    It hasn't so far, and I'm so anal-retentive when it comes to my money, it pisses me off that I can double-check my math with a calculator & come up with the same answers every time, but the bank seems to be pulling numbers out of its ass ...
    =(

  19. Only in America by GrayCalx · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Only in America would anyone consider mourning the closing of a retail store.

    Fucking pathetic really...