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Amazon Uses DMCA To Restrict Ebook Purchases

InlawBiker writes "Today, Amazon invoked the DMCA to force removal of a python script and instructions from the mobileread web site. The script is used to identify the Kindle's internal ID number, which can be used to enable non-Amazon purchased books to work on the Kindle. '...this week we received a DMCA take-down notice from Amazon requesting the removal of the tool kindlepid.py and instructions for it. Although we never hosted this tool (contrary to their claim), nor believe that this tool is used to remove technological measures (contrary to their claim), we decided, due to the vagueness of the DMCA law and our intention to remain in good relation with Amazon, to voluntarily follow their request and remove links and detailed instructions related to it.' Ironically, the purpose of the script is to make the Kindle more useful to its users."

30 of 409 comments (clear)

  1. First Sale My Ass by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How dare anyone attempt to enable users to do as they please with Amazon's personal property! Kindles and all their associated contents are the intellectual property of Amazon in perpetuity and just because you paid money for one and are in personal possession of it, that does not entitle you to do with it as you please.

    I mean, where would we be if people could do as they liked with the things they buy?

    --
    May the Maths Be with you!
    1. Re:First Sale My Ass by porcupine8 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There's a big difference between a company fighting back by making the hacked item obsolete, and the company claiming that what you did is illegal and going after you in court. Companies are welcome to do whatever they want to try and design and market their products in such a way that they can only be used in the way the company wishes - the government doing it for them is not cool.

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
    2. Re:First Sale My Ass by RickyMaveety · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You are right, that is a poor analogy. A better one would be a consumer purchasing a television set and then being told that he/she can only watch television shows on which that manufacturer advertises, or can only watch stations that pay the manufacturer a license fee. Amazon is using DRM to force people who purchase a Kindle from only obtaining content from them. Thus, they dictate what books the user can or cannot read on the device, regardless of the fact that the user has paid for a digital book, unless they have paid Amazon, they may not read the book on the device.

    3. Re:First Sale My Ass by QuoteMstr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Thanks for the anecdote. It illuminates why laissez-faire capitalism fails again and again: market capitalism works flawlessly in theory. This theory, however, rests on the assumption that all market participants are rational actors, and that these participants have access to all the information they need. This assumption does not hold in real life.

      In real life, even relatively intelligent people only have 24 hours a day in which to make decisions, and nobody has the time to obtain all the information he needs to make rational decisions about everything. Most people will not have the skepticism or the presence of mind to question the service representative the way you did. Slick marketing exploits this weakness by pushing incorrect information that average people, pressed for time, will take as fact. Neither will most people use the courts to have contracts like this canceled, even if they become aware they were cheated: a lack of time again neuters the tools that capitalism in theory gives us to counter these abuses.

      This is why we need explicit market regulation: to compensate for human inefficiency and weakness in the market. Cell phone contracts should be made illegal outright, the way they are in parts of Europe.

  2. Lets boycott the thing I was never gona buy! by Kenja · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The number of books I would have to buy to make the Kindle worth buying makes me sad. Its a nifty device, but there's no way I'd ever get one.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    1. Re:Lets boycott the thing I was never gona buy! by geminidomino · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I thought the same thing about ebook readers, but then I enrolled in an online degree program (from a real school). Since it's CS, most of the professors are rather clueful and the lecture notes (which tend to be even more complete than the textbooks) are all in PDFs.

      Not having to have my laptop with me at all times to study made it worth it to get a PRS-505 (and it's a tax deduction since there's nothing else on it!)

      Fuck the Kindle though.

  3. More useful? To whom? by Kazoo+the+Clown · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's not about the Kindle's usefullness to the user, it's about the Kindle's usefullnes to amazon. The Kindle is not where Amazon makes their money, it's on the sale of the ebooks-- if people are buying them from elsewhere, Amazon is not getting their profit, and in fact it may be costing them money-- the Kindle is essentially subsidised by their ebooks.

  4. Have to hand it to Amazon by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It takes a lot of balls to ask someone to pay almost $400 for the privilege of buying stuff exclusively from you, and then tell them that modifying the software to do anything BUT buy stuff from you is illegal.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  5. Irony? by fastest+fascist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ironically, the purpose of the script is to make the Kindle more useful to its users.

    Nothing ironic about it. Amazon doesn't want the Kindle to be more useful than they've designed it to be. They've spent a great deal of money and effort making this platform, they don't want to have to compete with other people selling books for the thing.

  6. Isn't Kindle a Loss-Leader? by sweatyboatman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ironically, the purpose of the script is to make the Kindle more useful to its users

    From the relatively low cost of the device and the fact that access to Sprint's EV-DO network is free, I would assume that the kindle is a loss-leader for Amazon.

    They're counting on making their money back and more selling the e-books over that network. And that only works if Kindle users get their books exclusively from Amazon. So clearly it's in their interest to limit the Kindle's capabilities in this way.

    Having said that, it's not clear that the DMCA actually applies in this case. Though since the law is written so that large IP holders can bludgeon smaller entities, I'd say it seems to be working perfectly.

    --
    It breaks my pluginses, my precious!
    1. Re:Isn't Kindle a Loss-Leader? by QuoteMstr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They're counting on making their money back and more selling the e-books over that network

      If Amazon would like to try this approach, that's fine. But our personal right to do what we will with our property trumps Amazon's business model. If Amazon's business model won't work in a free society, it has no business working at all.

    2. Re:Isn't Kindle a Loss-Leader? by QuoteMstr · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There's already a perfectly good legal mechanism to amortize high up-front costs over a product's lifetime: it's called a lease. If a company wants to restrict how a product is used, the company and the customer can sign a lease agreement. Xerox very successfully used that business model for its early photocopies.

      The problem we're seeing today is that companies want to have their cake and eat it too. They want customers to feel like they're making a purchase, but act like they're under the terms of a lease. That's fucking bullshit, and runs counter to personal property rights at the core of Western civilization.

      In short, if you want to tell me how to use your widget, you'd better lease it to me. No way in hell should you be telling me how to use property I've purchased outright without signing any kind of contract with you.

  7. Consoles by jgtg32a · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Isn't this the business model of the Console?

  8. Re:Way to let a company by tritonman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Kindle is probably like the playstation, they don't make money on selling the unit, they make money on you buying books for it.

  9. Whoops by Hordeking · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From the article:

    The funny part is that many people like me will never have even heard of the script until Amazon made a fuss about it. I found it with a simple google search. Same with how-to instructions.

    Hi, Amazon. I'd like for you to meet a very dear friend of mine, the Streisand Effect. You two are going to really get familiar with each other.

    --
    Disclaimer: The opinions and actions of the US Gov't are in no way representative of those held by this author or its ci
    1. Re:Whoops by Hordeking · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yep. I'd never heard of it either. Now I've got a copy, in case anyone I know ever wants it. Thanks, Amazon.

      It's a good thing DMCA takedown notices aren't applied with gag orders like "National Security" Letters.

      I got the distinct impression these guys wanted exactly what happened to happen, and wanted to disavow responsibility for legal reasons. "It's not here, so don't ask". Nothing about "don't look elsewhere for it, or ask elsewhere."

      --
      Disclaimer: The opinions and actions of the US Gov't are in no way representative of those held by this author or its ci
  10. Screw that by Murpster · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've only gotten one DMCA take down request, I wrote back and told the copyright owner which of my body parts he could orally copulate with and never heard back. If this web site thought the law was vague and that they were in the right, they should've told Amazon something similar and left the script up. Stupid laws like this only survive because people crumble in the face of silly threats.

  11. Re:Way to let a company by Ibag · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Just because you run and hide from a pack of wolves doesn't mean you are a sheep. While you might wish them to martyr themselves for your principles, if they don't have the resources to fight, or if a win would not accomplish anything for anybody else, why shouldn't they act in their own best interests?

  12. Exactly by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sony's got to be kicking themselves, wondering where they went wrong. When they released a portable digital Walkman without native support for .MP3s, people just laughed at them.

    Yet when Amazon releases a portable reader without native support for .PDFs, people trample their own mothers to get in line to buy one.

    Can you imagine the derision people would have for Apple if you had to email your .MP3s to convert@apple.com to put them on your iPod or iPhone?

    1. Re:Exactly by Abcd1234 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Someone with a metric assload of scanned documents, with formatting that needs to be preserved. That would be me.

      Then Kindle isn't for you.

      For actual, serious e-book reading, PDF is an inferior format. Period. What you're doing sounds like it involves reading scanned technical manuals or other documentation. For that purpose, you probably want something with higher resolution, and even better, colour. Either way, Kindle isn't the best choice. I'd suggest something along the lines of a tablet PC.

  13. Re:Way to let a company by gnick · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Or printers/ink or razors/blades. The big difference with e-books is that you have to create a shortage of product while it's a natural side-effect for ink or razors. You can't just download new razors.

    --
    He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
  14. Its an industrial standard by Demonantis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Amazon isn't the only one that does this. Apple does this with their products. A lot of printing companies do this with ink cartridges. Car companies often control the supply of replacement parts. Secondary purchases are a huge economy everywhere. I don't like that use of the DMCA, though. Its implications really scare me. What if I modified my car then release the notes on a web page. Could the manufacture DMCA it down? Should this be an acceptable use of the DMCA? I think that DMCA notices should really come with a danger to misuse. If there isn't companies could DMCA their way out of webpages that attack their product. It would really make the company think about it be before it brought down it's huge club of injustice on an individual.

  15. Re:Kindle is a piece of shit by Dishevel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    -1 is the only way to read /.

    --
    Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
  16. Amazon illegally tying Kindle with Amazon eBooks? by erroneus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Amazon sells the Kindle. Fine. Amazon sells eBooks. Fine. Amazon wants to restrict what a Kindle OWNER can do with his own hardware? Not fine.

    Either Amazon should back down on this or they should discontinue the Kindle. They can't really do what they are doing without running afowl of some legal crusader in the near future.

  17. I seriously disagree it is supply & demand by way2trivial · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It is the difference between
    the protection of the law which both razors and kindles have,
    and protection "realistic barrier to entry into the marketplace"

    The thing keeping the razor blade model propped up is the design of the connector between handle & blade

    A Gilette Mach XXX* has a very specific design and legally protected-physical connection

    to enter the market/compete against this product requires large capital infusion, on a business level that can easily be knocked down in the court systems

    if anyone could legitimately connect to that- then there would damnfinesure be some competition with generic knockoffs

    Region Free DVD roms' Ebooks, wii's, xbox's jailbroken iphones-- the resources required to do these things are small by comparison

    the fact is, the electrical goods as discussed here (e book files) and elsewhere can be modified on a per piece basis for far less.

    Demand is not a factor-- ease of modification is.

    --
    every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
  18. Re:Way to let a company by geekoid · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Becasue even fighting it loudly could casuse Amazon to back down. Best case, Amazon loks like a bully, and people hate that.
    IT also loudly shows the problems with the DMCA.

    And if you make your fight in the arean of public opinion, you have strong allies. Based on cost, you qwould probably end up needing to do that.

    Personally, I would post the letter on a blog. Pay a few hundred dollars to get a lawyer to draft a response.

    The rest acan eb a public fight, for little cost.

    So, while running and hiding from something you can't defeat is on thing, running and hiding when you ahve other cation to take is being a sheep.

    You let the fear of the person with the stick cause you to run like everyone else.

    This behavior should be avoided whenever possible because you can have all the rights in the world, but if you refuse to defend them, then really you have no rights at all.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  19. Re:Amazon illegally tying Kindle with Amazon eBook by erroneus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Threatening legal action against people who want to use their own property in any way they like is not oppressive? The DMCA notices are just the beginning stages before they start filing lawsuits. This makes me wonder if I am actually feeding the troll...

  20. Re:Kindle is a piece of shit by hairyfeet · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Which is why I don't see how Amazon plans to build a market for this thing. Let's look at it from a business perspective: First you are trying to sell a kinda pricey device to what all would agree is a very limited market. And THEN you go out of your way to piss off the purchasers by screwing them from using anything but your overpriced content AFTER they just handed you money? Yeah, good luck ith that.

    I can buy a Netbook for the same price or less than a Kindle, and do whatever I WANT to do with it, including reading .txt,.pdf,.html, whatever, and NOT get hamstringed by some corp trying to push overpriced content on me. Why would I want to give you my money for a Kindle now, Amazon?

    I predict this time next year the Kindle will be just as dead as those proprietary ebook readers companies tried to sell during the last dotbomb. you have to know your market and more importantly, know your competition. By screwing their paying customers Amazon just made their product that much more worthless compared to the Netbook. Just not a good move in this economy IMHO.

    --
    ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  21. Re:Amazon illegally tying Kindle with Amazon eBook by EllisDees · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You own the Kindle. You are not breaking Amazon DRM to put anything on the Kindle. Amazon can sit and spin.

    --
    -- Give me ambiguity or give me something else!
  22. Re:Ah, Python! by Repton · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The whitespace is present in the source.

    Perhaps more accurately demonstrates why restricted-html web pages as code repositories suck.

    --
    Repton.
    They say that only an experienced wizard can do the tengu shuffle.