Slashdot Mirror


Linux Kernel 2.6.29 Released

diegocgteleline.es writes "Linus Torvalds has released Linux 2.6.29. The new features include the inclusion of kernel graphic modesetting, WiMAX, access point Wi-Fi support, inclusion of squashfs and a preliminary version of btrfs, a more scalable version of RCU, eCryptfs filename encryption, ext4 no journal mode, OCFS2 metadata checksums, improvements to the memory controller, support for filesystem freeze, and other features. Here is the full list of changes."

265 comments

  1. Kernel Graphics Molesting by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 4, Funny

    I totally misread that.

    1. Re:Kernel Graphics Molesting by jonaskoelker · · Score: 1

      (politician mode) I'm committed to fighting a war against anyone who would seek to molest and most gruesomely harm the body and mind of young... vector gra... pixe...? Why wrote this fuck*ng speech?

    2. Re:Kernel Graphics Molesting by wastedlife · · Score: 2, Funny

      Won't someone please think of the pixels?!

      --
      Said, "It's just like dice but it's got more sides And it tells me who lives and who dies"
    3. Re:Kernel Graphics Molesting by jnetsurfer · · Score: 1

      HELP!!! That bad man touched my special pixel!

  2. Access Point Wi-Fi? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Geez, Windows has supported using access points on a Wi-Fi network for quite a long time.

    Lunix playing catch up yet again!

    1. Re:Access Point Wi-Fi? by swimin · · Score: 5, Informative

      Ummm I'm pretty sure thats the ability to act as a wifi access point, which windows can't do yet.

    2. Re:Access Point Wi-Fi? by edivad · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes it is indeed. The MS funny-boy above must have missed the obvious point. But that isn't in any way a surprise, is it?

    3. Re:Access Point Wi-Fi? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Mac can't do it either. Ad-hoc is not the same as being an access point.

    4. Re:Access Point Wi-Fi? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      I thought you could "bridge" connections in XP? I'm too lazy to boot it up and try.

      But yeah, Mac's can do this through the "Sharing" portion of System Preferences. I use it every time I install Ubuntu and don't yet have the wireless working :)

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    5. Re:Access Point Wi-Fi? by SpazmodeusG · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It uses the hostap driver on Mac - that's HOST Access Point driver, same as what's used in Linux. It creates full access point, not an ad-hoc network. It works well, you can connect to it with other devices just like you would to any other WAP.
      It isn't built into the kernel though (nothing much is on Darwin). This Linux feature they are talking about now has been around for a while. It hasn't been built into the kernel before though.

    6. Re:Access Point Wi-Fi? by pedrop357 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's not the same thing. Bridge literally bridges the two NICs much like a switch (network people please correct me if I'm wrong). From what I've seen, ad-hoc is one client to one client, no more.

      I have a Zydas ZD1211 something or other USB 802.11b/g whose Windows driver allows to act as an access point. In my case at least, Windows doesn't provide the necessary options-I can choose ad-hoc or infrastructure client mode.

      I need the driver support for AP mode to set (useless) MAC filtering, SSID, broadcast SSID yes/no, encryption type and for it to be accessible (associative?) with more than one client at a time.

    7. Re:Access Point Wi-Fi? by Verunks · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ummm I'm pretty sure thats the ability to act as a wifi access point, which windows can't do yet.

      you can do that on windows too, but like on linux you can't set the wifi card in master mode with all drivers, some support it and some don't
      for example I have the wifi-ap edition of an asus mb that can do that

    8. Re:Access Point Wi-Fi? by Computershack · · Score: 1, Informative

      Ummm I'm pretty sure thats the ability to act as a wifi access point, which windows can't do yet.

      Eh? When was the last time you used Windows? Vista certainly has had the ability to be configured as an access point since the start so that's over 2 years.

      --
      I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
    9. Re:Access Point Wi-Fi? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What dipshit modded this offtopic? Its right in the freakin' summary.

      I call "mod abuse" on this abusive moderation.

    10. Re:Access Point Wi-Fi? by Espectr0 · · Score: 1

      Ummm I'm pretty sure thats the ability to act as a wifi access point, which windows can't do yet.

      Yes it can, i use it daily so i can connect to the internet with my cell phone using my laptop's net connection over wifi. Just turn on internet connection sharing and create an ad-hoc network.

    11. Re:Access Point Wi-Fi? by Roy+Hobbs · · Score: 0

      Geez, Windows has supported using access points on a Wi-Fi network for quite a long time.

      Lunix playing catch up yet again!

      How is this offtopic? I disagree, but it's not offtopic.

    12. Re:Access Point Wi-Fi? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I thought you could "bridge" connections in XP?

      I could never get it to work, or maybe it would only work if the firewall was disabled. I forget - that was before SP1 came out, but by then I'd just given up and bought a router.

      Networking was always (and still is) sucky in windows.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    13. Re:Access Point Wi-Fi? by wastedlife · · Score: 2, Informative

      Bridge does only do layer 2 switching between the 2 NICs and would not provide DHCP or routing. However, if you use "Internet Connection Sharing", it turns the computer into a basic NAT router. Very basic. Although, since you are sharing over ad-hoc, I don't think you can use WPA or WPA2 (could be wrong about that). More than one client can access the ad-hoc network. However, they have to support ad-hoc mode. For example, the Nintendo DS only supports infrastructure mode and will not connect to an ad-hoc network.

      --
      Said, "It's just like dice but it's got more sides And it tells me who lives and who dies"
  3. Drivers??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Will the driver problem be fixed? I am tired of having to search for stuff if I buy a new printer or scanner etc. Oh but I guess the vendors should provide it, true...

    1. Re:Drivers??? by Ash-Fox · · Score: 4, Informative

      Will the driver problem be fixed? I am tired of having to search for stuff if I buy a new printer or scanner etc.

      Been working for years, for me.

      I just plug in my printer, use the add printer wizard, select model, various sharing methods - no stupid driver installation that installs a bunch of bloatware.

      Plug in my tablet, works instantly - no stupid driver installation that includes tray icon background processes.

      Plug in wireless device, works instantly - no stupid driver installation that includes some special wireless manager that has a terrible UI and doesn't really work properly.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    2. Re:Drivers??? by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 1

      I just plug in my printer, use the add printer wizard

      People still do this?

    3. Re:Drivers??? by Ash-Fox · · Score: 0, Troll

      People still do this?

      Pretty much. For some reason, even under Windows, you still need to set the paper type used for most printers.

      What I find really weird is that on Windows, the default paper size is always "letter", when most people use A4.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    4. Re:Drivers??? by onefriedrice · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What I find really weird is that on Windows, the default paper size is always "letter", when most people use A4.

      Not in the U.S.

      --
      This author takes full ownership and responsibility for the unpopular opinions outlined above.
    5. Re:Drivers??? by en.ABCD · · Score: 1

      What I find really weird is that on Windows, the default paper size is always "letter", when most people use A4.

      In the United States, just about everyone uses "US Letter" (8.5 in. × 11 in., or 216 × 279 mm), and not "A4" (210 × 297 mm), which means that oftentimes on Linux, you have to remember to switch from A4 to Letter. In other words, there isn't really a sensible default for everyone.

    6. Re:Drivers??? by KingMotley · · Score: 1

      A4 paper is rare in the United States.

    7. Re:Drivers??? by Ash-Fox · · Score: 0, Redundant

      In the United States, just about everyone uses "US Letter" (8.5 in. × 11 in., or 216 × 279 mm), and not "A4" (210 × 297 mm)

      How is that relevant? I'm using a UK version of Windows, not US.

      which means that oftentimes on Linux, you have to remember to switch from A4 to Letter.

      My Linux installations are set to be localized for the UK, so, I don't know if the defaults for US localization is different.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    8. Re:Drivers??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > A4 paper is rare in the United States.

      "Letter" sized paper is rare everywhere else. Only two countries do not use A4 as the standard size for paper.

    9. Re:Drivers??? by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      Not in the U.S.

      I'm using a UK version of Windows.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    10. Re:Drivers??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      > I just plug in my printer, use the add printer wizard, select model, various sharing methods - no stupid driver installation that installs a bunch of bloatware.

      The last two versions of Ubuntu that I installed, I did not even have to do that much. After first installation, I just turned the USB printer on. Ubuntu detected it, identified the correct make and model, installed all the drivers and set it as the default printer (since there wasn't already one set). Since during the installation I had set the timezone to Australian CST, Ubuntu had also set the localization correctly, and so consequently the default paper size was correctly set to A4.

    11. Re:Drivers??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does saying it three times help?

    12. Re:Drivers??? by Kjella · · Score: 4, Informative

      As long as you followed step #0. Check printer compatibility here and scanner compatibility here. Unless they got a Tux logo or something, because there are still devices that don't have Linux drivers. I agree, when it works it works much better on Windows and most things work, but a two minute googling may still save you a lot of grief. Plus, there's nothing wrong with supporting manufacturers that really have first-class Linux drivers.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    13. Re:Drivers??? by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      Does saying it three times help?

      Ask the people who mentioned the same thing, three times.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    14. Re:Drivers??? by tuxgeek · · Score: 1

      He was just being through

      redundant
      redundant
      redundant

      --
      "Suppose you were an idiot...and suppose you were a member of Congress...but I repeat myself." Mark Twain
    15. Re:Drivers??? by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      As long as you followed step #0. Check printer compatibility here and scanner compatibility here. Unless they got a Tux logo or something, because there are still devices that don't have Linux drivers.

      In all honesty, I've just used off the shelf hardware with no idea if it would work or not. Thanks for the site though, I think I might use that in future.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    16. Re:Drivers??? by dbcad7 · · Score: 1

      Plus, there's nothing wrong with supporting manufacturers that really have first-class Linux drivers

      Well, you don't mention them by name., but I am guessing your referring to HP.. which is always a pretty safe bet for compatibility, and their software for Linux is pretty good.. so I'll support them by saying that my recent purchase of a cheap all in one HP printer turned out to be pretty cool.. and I did your google thing as well.. when I had run across the printer and liked the price, the first thing I did before buying it was to google "HP F2210 Linux problem" saw no problems, and links to drivers, and knew it was cool to go for it.

      --
      waiting for ad.doubleclick.net
    17. Re:Drivers??? by KingMotley · · Score: 1

      There is no "UK" version of Windows, sorry. You use the English version.

    18. Re:Drivers??? by jabithew · · Score: 1

      Wrong. There is a British localisation of Windows, to deal with the fact that we have different keyboards, currency, timezone and spellings. You can pick UK as an entity distinct from the rest of the Anglosphere in the installation process, much as you do with the friendlier GUI installers on Linux.

      Don't know what Ash-Fox is talking about re: paper sizes though, all my Windows comps chose A4 as the default paper size.

      --
      All intents and purposes. Not intensive purposes.
    19. Re:Drivers??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually,

      that is one of my big annoyances in both Windows AND linux. My printer stops for every page send to it in Letter, as it loaded with A4, like it is in 90% of the civilized world.

      Somehow you have to chance the default to A4 in 3 separate locations, only for the program to forget after closing it.

      Do all printer-driver developers live in the US??? (most Windows probably do) but some other non-US linux guru must have the same problem.

    20. Re:Drivers??? by pato101 · · Score: 1

      Pun intended:
      "US Letter" aspect ratio (1.28) is more distant from golden ratio (1.61) than "A4"'s (1.41).

    21. Re:Drivers??? by franki.macha · · Score: 1

      Plus, there's nothing wrong with supporting manufacturers that really have first-class Linux drivers.

      This may be a stupid question, but where can I find this kind of information?
      It's easy to find "someone got this to work with linux" pages, but how do i find out about what hardware really works well with linux? (and how to get it outside of the US)

    22. Re:Drivers??? by Computershack · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not in the UK either. Mine have always defaulted to A4.

      --
      I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
    23. Re:Drivers??? by donaldm · · Score: 1

      What I find really weird is that on Windows, the default paper size is always "letter", when most people use A4.

      In the United States, just about everyone uses "US Letter" (8.5 in. × 11 in., or 216 × 279 mm), and not "A4" (210 × 297 mm), which means that oftentimes on Linux, you have to remember to switch from A4 to Letter. In other words, there isn't really a sensible default for everyone.

      Simple solution. If you live in a country that uses the metric system (most of the world) then use "A4". If you live in a country that still uses the Imperial System (the USA and a few other countries that are slowly converting to metric) then stick to "Letter".

      --
      There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
    24. Re:Drivers??? by Freultwah · · Score: 1

      The locale should be consulted. I find it extremely irritating that every time I install Adobe Reader, I need to navigate through menus to find out where the Units submenu lies this time, and then set it manually to cm or mm. Ignoring for the moment the fact that most computers are not in USA, software should really consult the system locale for things like default paper sizes, units to be used etc.

      It is quite annoying when there is a group assignment at the university, somebody from the group invariably throws a letter-sized document at you and when you try to reformat it, it turns out it completely murders all formatting, thus adding extra work to an already tight schedule.

    25. Re:Drivers??? by SuperAndy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      A4 isn't meant to be equal to the golden ratio. It is meant to be 1/Root2, or Root2, depending on your outlook on life. Designed such that if you stick two of them together, you get the next size up. Or on cutting one in half, get the next size down; again, depending on your outlook on life.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_size

    26. Re:Drivers??? by xouumalperxe · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The golden ratio isn't really all that useful for writing paper. The A system is based on A0 being 1 square metre, and the sides being in a sqrt(2) proportion so that each time you cut an A(n) sheet in half along the long edge, you get two A(n+1) sheets. Plus, it makes calculating letter weights really easy: given the paper weight in g/m^2, you just divide that by 2^4 = 16 for A4, 2^5 = 32 for A5, etc, then multiply by the number of sheets.

    27. Re:Drivers??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Meaning most people in the world...

    28. Re:Drivers??? by dotancohen · · Score: 1

      What I find really weird is that on Windows, the default paper size is always "letter", when most people use A4.

      Not in the U.S.

      "Most people" don't live in the US. I think somewhere around 94% of the world's population live elsewhere. But even in local Windows versions (in Israel, at least) the system is set for "letter" paper.

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    29. Re:Drivers??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not so certain there's a true UK version of Windows. Just a non-US version.

      If we were French, at least they'd make more effort due to the completely different language involved.

    30. Re:Drivers??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In TeX and LaTeX, the default seems to be A4. As a consequence, the (US) National Science Foundation rejected my paperless proposal because it was on the wrong paper size.

    31. Re:Drivers??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm using a UK version of Windows.

      What version's that? Last time I looked Windows came in English, which is actually American-English. Yes, you can set your date format, keyboard layout, etc. to UK settings but it's still the same English Windows as used in the US.

    32. Re:Drivers??? by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      What version's that?

      A version of Windows that comes with British localizations.

      Last time I looked Windows came in English, which is actually American-English.

      Stop getting US versions?

      Yes, you can set your date format, keyboard layout, etc. to UK settings but it's still the same English Windows as used in the US.

      Localizations are set to use UK settings by default, so you wouldn't need to set your date format, keyboard layout etc.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    33. Re:Drivers??? by GNU(slash)Nickname · · Score: 1

      Simple solution. If you live in a country that uses the metric system (most of the world) then use "A4". If you live in a country that still uses the Imperial System (the USA and a few other countries that are slowly converting to metric) then stick to "Letter".

      So what if you live in Canada, where we use both the metric system and US letter paper?

    34. Re:Drivers??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All English versions of Windows come with British localizations available, except for the spelling which is always American.

      I'm not trolling. I've really never seen "American Windows" or "British Windows". I've been using Windows since 3.1 and every version I've seen has been English Windows, which can be customized for England or Canada or Australia or whereever.

      Did you buy a boxed copy of Windows from a retailer? Or is it an OEM disk where the OEM has preconfigured the install to choose British settings? If the latter it's not British Windows, it's English Windows with a few different default choices.

    35. Re:Drivers??? by Stewie241 · · Score: 1

      Hmmm... I have the opposite problem... for some reason paper size keeps defaulting to A4 and we don't have a sheet of it anywhere, only letter.

    36. Re:Drivers??? by Stewie241 · · Score: 1

      That doesn't work though, since here in Canada we are metric but we use Letter size paper.

    37. Re:Drivers??? by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      All English versions of Windows come with British localizations available, except for the spelling which is always American.

      Indeed.

      Did you buy a boxed copy of Windows from a retailer?

      Over the years I have collected both retail and OEM along with MSDN copies of windows.

      Or is it an OEM disk where the OEM has preconfigured the install to choose British settings?

      Both retail and OEM discs are set to use British currency, locale, timezone, keyboard settings etc. by default.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    38. Re:Drivers??? by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      Hmmm... I have the opposite problem... for some reason paper size keeps defaulting to A4 and we don't have a sheet of it anywhere, only letter.

      It's easy to change defaults, especially when using the add printer wizard - I just noted it was something I found weird about Windows - completely ignores my locale settings and suggests "letter" format.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    39. Re:Drivers??? by tepples · · Score: 1

      Only two countries do not use A4 as the standard size for paper.

      And these two countries have the lion's share of the industrialized native anglophones. Or do your desktop environment and your applications come set to Letter even when you install them in a language other than English?

    40. Re:Drivers??? by Xabraxas · · Score: 1

      I have a Brother and it defaults to A4 on Linux, which is really annoying in the US where most paper is legal.

      --
      Time makes more converts than reason
    41. Re:Drivers??? by hattig · · Score: 1

      The HP drivers default to Letter though, regardless of your computer's locale settings.

    42. Re:Drivers??? by Xabraxas · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Simple solution. If you live in a country that uses the metric system (most of the world) then use "A4". If you live in a country that still uses the Imperial System (the USA and a few other countries that are slowly converting to metric) then stick to "Letter".

      I hope you don't mean to imply that the US is slowly converting to metric. We are not and probably never will. I learned the metric system from a young age because we were taught that it would eventually be the standard in the US as it is elsewhere but I haven't seen any real change in this direction. Metric usage is usually reserved for science and mathematics in the US, but common measurements will never standardize on metric, it's too ingrained in our system and culture.

      --
      Time makes more converts than reason
    43. Re:Drivers??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They come with multiple languages supported but they are set to locale and of different SKU.

      By having the software "translated" in Ireland, Microsoft doesn't have to pay EU toll duties because it counts as manufactured there.

    44. Re:Drivers??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HP: http://h10018.www1.hp.com/wwsolutions/linux/products/printing_imaging/index.html

      They also have a rather decent selection of linux certified desktops and notebooks. (Most of the testing seem to be for Novell SLED and Mandriva but my nx9420 "just worked" with Ubuntu without having to mess around with the terminal).

      Other big vendors should have similar information available regarding their products. (Dell has notebooks for sale with Ubuntu as an option and "mobile workstations" with Redhat for example)

    45. Re:Drivers??? by GMFTatsujin · · Score: 1

      Do all your typing in English on one side of the paper and French on the other?

    46. Re:Drivers??? by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      I've never ever used A4 sized paper. 8x5"x11" only up here in Canada. From time to time I've also used "legal" which is 8.5"x14".

      I also do business printing, for which we have a variety of wider paper formats, but none standard for printing normally.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    47. Re:Drivers??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PC Load Letter? What the fuck does that mean?

    48. Re:Drivers??? by DerPflanz · · Score: 3, Informative

      The golden ratio isn't really all that useful for writing paper.

      Except that, when you have an long-side-leading A4 printer, it can also print A3, because the long side of A4 is the same as the short side of A3. It makes the printer a little more versatile.

      --
      -- The Internet is a too slow way of doing things, you'd never do without it.
    49. Re:Drivers??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correlation is not causation, just because you use Letter paper doesn't mean your economy-dick is any bigger.

    50. Re:Drivers??? by pizzach · · Score: 1

      I don't know. The usage in science and math is a good indicator that we are slowly moving to metric in the US...though it may still take another 50 years if it happens naturally.

      Think of it this way: Metric tools will eventually be cheaper than ISA because of the laws of mass production. Many things like imported cars use metric sized bolts and screws. What's this? A racing game that uses km because of a lazy translation? Hey, my shoe size is also listed in metric! All of these little things that you don't notice are slowly piling into a mountain because of economic concerns of large corporations.

      The US population is (very) slowly getting less scared of the metric whether you realize it not. Wouldn't it be crazy if congress passed a bill like the digital TV one to cut parts costs for mechanics and other industries instead of half-@ssing it?

      --
      Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
    51. Re:Drivers??? by tkw954 · · Score: 1

      ...common measurements will never standardize on metric, it's too ingrained in our system and culture.

      I think you'd be surprised in your culture's ability to change. Every other nation that metrified has said the same thing.

    52. Re:Drivers??? by KingMotley · · Score: 1

      As I said, there is no UK version of Windows. There are regional setting for the UK in the English version of Windows, but that doesn't make it a separate version.

    53. Re:Drivers??? by oasisbob · · Score: 1

      The metric system for paper sizing is also rad because the page sizes stay proportional. You can draft a poster on A4 paper and then size it up, or you can print 2-up on A4 without scaling issues. (Cut a piece of letter size paper in two and its no longer proportional, you need to add white space for everything to fit.)

    54. Re:Drivers??? by markus+o'farkus · · Score: 1

      Even in the US, metric is quite commonly used when measuring fizzy drinks or drugs.

    55. Re:Drivers??? by walshy007 · · Score: 1

      or just get a native postscript printer, which only needs a ppd file and not even that if you don't want to.

  4. The most important missed out feature by LingNoi · · Score: 5, Informative

    I can't believe this wasn't mentioned..

    The most obvious change is the (temporary) change of logo to Tuz, the Tasmanian Devil.

    Here's what the new linux logo looks like for this release.

    1. Re:The most important missed out feature by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Ha Ha. Igor in the comments thinks Tasmanian devils are cute!

    2. Re:The most important missed out feature by dbIII · · Score: 2, Informative
      As cute as a tiger kitten with a lead pipe on angel dust.

      Furry comes to mind, impressive animal comes to mind, but cute?

    3. Re:The most important missed out feature by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      Furry comes to mind, impressive animal comes to mind, but cute?

      Well when you consider that the other animal that used to be on the island was a Tasmanian Tiger, maybe it's just cute for Tasmania.

      Maybe not as cute as a Koala but damn it's so sad to see the little guys with those horrible facial tumours . Besides the loss to humanity of the only known remaining carnivorous marsupial in the world would be an incredible tragedy. So, until a cure is found for the incredibly rare transmissible cancer that's killing them all, yes they are cute (well I think they are cute).

      I am impressed that Torvalds knows about this issue, and credo to him for raising people's awareness.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    4. Re:The most important missed out feature by Cathbard · · Score: 1

      What? How dare you say that Tasmanians aren't cute. You don't think two headed humans are cute?

      --
      "A cynic is what an idealist calls a realist" - Sir Humphrey Appleby
    5. Re:The most important missed out feature by bsDaemon · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure that opossums eat meat as well... did you mean predatory instead of carnivorous?

    6. Re:The most important missed out feature by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure that opossums eat meat as well... did you mean predatory instead of carnivorous?

      I did, thanks for that, but I didn't know that opossums were carnivorous - so thanks for that too.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    7. Re:The most important missed out feature by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      What? How dare you say that Tasmanians aren't cute. You don't think two headed humans are cute?

      Two heads? That's not a missed out feature!!!

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    8. Re:The most important missed out feature by tuxgeek · · Score: 1

      opossums are omnivores and will eat most anything. From garbage can contents, to road kill, to pretty much anything they can get their paws on.

      This does not qualify them as predatory carnivores. They are more opportunistic in what they eat from day to day. Bugs, frogs, carrion, apple cores, etc ...

      --
      "Suppose you were an idiot...and suppose you were a member of Congress...but I repeat myself." Mark Twain
    9. Re:The most important missed out feature by slash.duncan · · Score: 5, Informative

      I am impressed that Torvalds knows about this issue, and credo to him for raising people's awareness.

      There's rather more community history behind it than that. The below is from memory based on various coverage I read on LWN and the like, but not fact-checked to be positive my memory is correct, so verify before acting on it as fact.

      I believe it was at the annual linux.conf.au, tho I'm not sure but it was some such conference, widely attended by Linux kernel hackers, that the presentation was made. There was apparently a fairly big charity pledge drive related to the issue, with many of the kernel hackers taking part. Various ones of them, in addition to pledging their own money, pledged various acts should the conference pledge drive reach whatever goal ($10K, maybe?).

      Well, the pledge drive was quite a success, and the various hackers either have or are in the process of fulfilling their various promises as a result. One of the ones that made Linux hacker community (and LWN) headlines was Bdale Garbee's pledge, to shave his beard. He hadn't been beardless in, I think, well over a decade (15 years? longer?). There was an LWN article on it with a photo (taken I believe at the closing ceremony or traditional post-conference party) of Linus as barber, doing the honors! =:^)

      That's actually how I first heard about the whole thing, seeing that photo and reading the accompanying article. But apparently Linus' own pledge was to name a kernel version after the Tazmanian Devil. But he has actually gone one better, changing the logo for .29 as well as the name.

      This logo, BTW, is the one the kernel framebuffer driver optionally displays at the top of the screen during boot, if the framebuffer is activated and the config option set to do so. There's a single logo displayed for every CPU/core, so my dual dual-core Opteron displays a nice row of four such logos. I can only imagine the row of 32 of the things on say a quad-socket oct-core machine. =:^)

      Anyway, I've been running a kernel compiled directly from git for a few months now (switching to the stable series between release and rc2 or so, only running mainline git between rc2 and release), and am currently running:

      $uname -r
      2.6.29-rc8-223-ga1e4ee2

      So I've had the pleasure of seeing four of these little beasties at boot for a week or so, now. =:^)

      Anyway, it's not just Linus. It's the entire kernel hacker community that got involved, thanks to linux.conf.au. =:^)

      All that said, while I obviously knew more about the Linux/kernel community side of things and had a bit of general awareness from that, I hadn't bothered reading up on the disease itself until taking the opportunity to click that nice wikipedia link you so thoughtfully provided. Now I know a bit more about it, and am hopefully returning the favor with the above info on the Linux community side of things.

      OK, I did an LWN search and here's some relevant links, so folks can fact-check what I wrote above, as well as quote something more authoritative than just some /. post.

      LWN 2.6.29 kernel announcement (mentions the code name):
      http://lwn.net/Articles/325047/

      That points to Linus' actual announcement (LKML announcement as seen on LWN):
      http://lwn.net/Articles/325048/

      The kernel gets a new logo (a comment links the actual git commit by Rusty Russel):
      http://lwn.net/Articles/323966/

      Beardless Bdale (It'd be interesting to see the stats for this one as related to the Linus in a swimsuit one, I think also linux.conf.au from a few years ago, dunk tank FWIW, see below.)
      http://lwn.net/Articles/316282/

      (FWIW, LCA/linux.conf.au, correct. AU$35-40K raised according to "beardless". With the awareness brought by 2.6.29 related publicity, hopefully much more

      --
      Duncan
      "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master,
      and if you use the program, he is your master."
      R Stallman
    10. Re:The most important missed out feature by silentquasar · · Score: 1

      Somewhat offtopic - but isn't it funny how a Tasmanian Devil is so much "cuter" than a starving girl with a swollen belly? Nothing against Tasmanian Devils, but where are our priorities?

    11. Re:The most important missed out feature by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      There's rather more community history behind it than that.

      Thank you for that, and thank you Linux community!

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    12. Re:The most important missed out feature by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Starving girls with swollen bellies aren't on the edge of extinction.

    13. Re:The most important missed out feature by ta+bu+shi+da+yu · · Score: 1

      He knows about Devils because the latest Linux.conf is being held in Tasmania.

      And Koalas can be vicious. If you believe in evolutionary biology (I hope there are no Texans in the room...) then you should note that they were once carnivorous. I'm not too aware of any marsupials that devolved from meat eating to eating leaves, but there you are.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    14. Re:The most important missed out feature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't believe this wasn't mentioned..

      The most obvious change is the (temporary) change of logo to Tuz, the Tasmanian Devil.

      Here's what the new linux logo looks like for this release.

      It's as f**king awful as the penguin.

      If they're gonna dick with the branding, they should move well away from this kiddy stuff.
      There's a reason Distro's don't use it.

      World class OS represented by a Toys'R'Us type mascot, it's an embarrassment. Saying you work on Linux shouldn't feel like saying you do occupational therapy with the learning disabled, or run a creche.

      Not that I stand in admiration of that mutant window thing...

    15. Re:The most important missed out feature by MrKaos · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm not too aware of any marsupials that devolved from meat eating to eating leaves, but there you are.

      Kangaroos! There was some fossil evidence of them in a carnivorous state. Big, scary fast with teeth. Even today they can be shitheads as herbivores. I was feeding a doe and she dug her claws into me so I wouldn't leave until she ate all the birdseed that was actually for the parrots. Lucky kangaroos taste good.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    16. Re:The most important missed out feature by rthille · · Score: 2, Funny

      There's a park in Japan (Nagoya?) where the deer are 'tame' and grandma types make some money selling crackers to the tourists. The parents buy the crackers and hand them to their children to feed the 'cute' deer. The deer (if the kids are small enough) then nock the kids down so they drop the crackers and proceed to go about eating all the crackers, not the trickle that was coming out of the kids' hands. Then the grandmas come and kick the deers' asses since when they misbehave it cuts into their income.

      Ah the circle of life.

      --
      Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
    17. Re:The most important missed out feature by dubbreak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Starving girls with swollen bellies aren't on the edge of extinction.

      Neither are Tasmanian devils. According to wikipedia the Tasmanian devil is merely endangered. While the Vancouver Island Marmot is is critically endangered.

      Plus the marmot is cuter than the Tasmanian devil. Maybe someone can talk Mark Shuttleworth into a Marmot release of Ubuntu. Marginalized Marmot anyone?

      --
      "If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
    18. Re:The most important missed out feature by GMFTatsujin · · Score: 1

      Well, they are: just in a very personal sense of extinction.

      The problem with the Devils is that there aren't enough living replacements coming up when one dies. They problem with starving girls with swollen bellies is that there are *plenty* of replacements.

    19. Re:The most important missed out feature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's a single logo displayed for every CPU/core, so my dual dual-core Opteron displays a nice row of four such logos. I can only imagine the row of 32 of the things on say a quad-socket oct-core machine.

      I tried that with 4 quad-cores. The server's crappy graphics had so low a resolution that only 13 would fit on the screen in one row.

      Someone should submit a patch which allows multiple rows or overlapping/stacked penguins.

    20. Re:The most important missed out feature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually they are. The Tasmanian Devils are affected by a weird kind of extremely contagious cancer for which there is no cure and no hope of survival. Over half of all Tasmanian Devils have already died from it over the past few years.

    21. Re:The most important missed out feature by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      Then the grandmas come and kick the deers' asses since when they misbehave it cuts into their income.

      I hear deer tastes good too!

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    22. Re:The most important missed out feature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Plus the marmot is cuter than the Tasmanian devil.

      Cute?! What is it with geeks and cute stuff? I want cool! I'll pick a Tasmanian devil over a Penguin any day. Get in touch with your inner predator fer chrissake! If you walk up to a chick with a fluffy penguin on your t-thirt you better believe they'll be wonderin' what "team" you're playing for :P

      Seriously, I want cool. Kick Tux in the nutsack and give me Taz!

  5. Re:Obama Policies Will Bankrupt the USA Tsarkon Re by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    I just want the government to leave me alone. I feel like the police watch me. I pay all my taxes, I've never been violent, I try to be good, I help others, and I feel the lasers eyes. I feel like I'm being hunted. I feel watched. I feel like the government is coming for me. I think of this song:

    Johnnys in america, low-techs at the; Wheel; No-one needs anyone, they dont even; Just pretend; Johnnys in America

    Im afraid of americans; Im afraid of the world; Im afraid I cant help it; Im afraid I cant; Johnnys in America

    Johnny wants a brain, johnny wants to; Suck on a coke; Johnny wants a woman, johnny wants; To think of a joke; Johnnys in america

    Im afraid of americans; Im afraid of the world; Im afraid I cant help it; Im afraid I cant; Johnnys in america;

    Johnnys in america, johnny looks up at; The stars; Johnny combs his hair and johnny; Wants pussy and cars; Johnnys in america

    Im afraid of americans; Im afraid of the world; Im afraid I cant help it; Im afraid I cant; Johnnys in america;

      God is an american; Im afraid of americans; Im afraid of the world;

    Im afraid I cant help it;
    Im afraid I cant;
    Im afraid of americans; Im afraid of the words; Im afraid I cant help it; Im afraid I cant; Johnnys in america; Johnnys in america

  6. Filesystems in the kernel! by DrSkwid · · Score: 4, Funny

    Filesystems in the kernel, savages!

    --
    There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    1. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by MichaelSmith · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Filesystems in the kernel, savages!

      Give it five to ten years. Linus will have to move all that bloat out of the kernel. I wonder if he will start again from minix 3?

    2. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by Chabo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm a relative newbie, but don't you need some filesystem support in the kernel so you can load the modules off the disk?

      Like say you had three non-swap partitions: / /boot /movies
      / is EXT4
      /boot is EXT2
      /movies is something else, like XFS, ZFS, ReiserFS

      Wouldn't you need EXT4 support in the kernel so you could load the rest of the OS? Then you could use whatever (possibly even a userland module) to mount /movies...

      Someone please enlighten me, I don't know much about the kernel.

      --
      Convert FLACs to a portable format with FlacSquisher
    3. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Idiot!!! You can always remove bloat by not compiling the 'extra' stuff into the kernel !!!
      Open Source man Open Source!!!

    4. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by Zan+Lynx · · Score: 5, Informative

      You only need rootfs, which is a special type of ramfs that loads the initramfs image. initramfs is loaded by the bootloader, so probably GRUB or LILO or ELILO.

      Then if every other filesystem was based on FUSE, you would load the initramfs with the FUSE module, the FUSE setup programs and a config file.

    5. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      I believe that in minix the bootstrap starts the kernel and various modules, including the file system.

    6. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      No. You just need a multi-image bootloader. Like GRUB. Then you load the appropriate filesystem up as a module, the same way you load the kernel up in a single-image bootloader - by pre-caching the block numbers.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    7. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by Nicopa · · Score: 5, Informative

      It doesn't work like that. The kernel never uses its own filesystems' support to load itself... How could it if it hasn't been loaded yet? That's the job of a "boot loader". The most user boot loader currently is Grub, and previously was Lilo.

      Grub supports some filesystems, so it can access them and load the kernel. Lilo did not support filesystem, so there was a tool that you needed to run each time you changed the kernel. That tool built a list of blocks, so that Lilo could load the kernel (from those blocks) without really understanding the filesystem.

    8. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by dragonturtle69 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Thanks! Somehow, in all of the other GRUB vs. LILO discussions I've read this difference was never mentioned. GRUB being able to read filesystems makes a logical reason for using it instead of LILO.

      --
      "What luck for the rulers that men do not think." - Adolph Hitler
    9. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by visualight · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not everyone wants an initrd/initramfs to be 'required' to boot. Options, always preserve your options.

      --
      Samsung took back my unlocked bootloader because Google wants me to rent movies. They're both evil.
    10. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by hydrofi · · Score: 5, Informative

      Then if every other filesystem was based on FUSE, you would load the initramfs with the FUSE module, the FUSE setup programs and a config file.

      Actually, user space filesystems are nice, but they are way too slow for implementing a high speed server and/or even a decent desktop machine. They are good for experiments and pioneering work though (like GMailFS and SSHFS), but having a good set of fast, basic filesystems in the kernel is just obligatory AFAIK.

    11. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by ultranova · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, user space filesystems are nice, but they are way too slow for implementing a high speed server and/or even a decent desktop machine.

      A database management system is nothing but a fancy filesystem with structured files, yet they are often used in servers and perform just fine.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    12. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Asshat moderator.
      The GP asked if file system support was needed in the kernel. If you don't want to use initrd then yeah, you do need it. The P post is incorrect in that respect.

       

    13. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by ion.simon.c · · Score: 2, Informative

      A database management system is nothing but a fancy filesystem with structured files

      And some databases come with their own built-in filesystem drivers!
      http://www.oracle.com/technology/deploy/performance/pdf/TWP_Oracle_HP_files.pdf

    14. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by ion.simon.c · · Score: 1

      Tho, IIRC, GRUB doesn't currently grok EXT4 filesystems, so -as of the time of this writing- you can't make an EXT4-formatted device your boot device.

    15. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First, the operating system is that part of software what runs in the kernel space or runs as supervisor mode. Monolith kernel is alone an Operating System, like Linux kernel.
      Linux was before 2.2 version a old model of OS where the OS was always just one binary blob. After 2.2 release, the Linux got modularity on it. Since then you can compile the OS so that drivers or OS features (like networking) are as modules on the disk and loaded to RAM only when the applications needs from Operating System such features. This helps making the Operating System to take less memory than the Macro kernel (Linux http://www.computer.org/portal/site/computer/menuitem.5d61c1d591162e4b0ef1bd108bcd45f3/index.jsp?&pName=computer_level1_article&TheCat=1005&path=computer/homepage/0506&file=cover1.xml&xsl=article.xsl&jsessionid=JLn7HZkxtsFGpSQ0ny0TxY17LhbyhWycJQLWx70pRnx1JnQn9j7g!289239620

    16. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by Morty · · Score: 1

      While the kernel and initrd are *loaded* by the bootloader, the kernel then needs to *understand* the initrd FS format. So at the very least, you need support for the initrd FS to be compiled into the kernel.

      You could add another layer of indirection to initrd, but you would just be moving the problem. initrd is itself really a way to let you avoid compiling everything into the kernel needed to load the root FS. You move most of the device and FS drivers into initrd, get the boot loader to load initrd, and make the kernel only have to understand the initrd FS.

      And once the initrd is loaded, the kernel still needs to understand the root FS. In theory, initrd could have FUSE support. But for now, FUSE gets loaded from the root FS or a user FS. So the initrd needs kernel modules for the root FS, too.

      Without initrd, the kernel definitely needs to support the root FS natively.

    17. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Need to post again, because seems that Konqueror 4.2.1 is broken on the Slashdot (or vice versa).

      First the facts, the operating system is that part of software what runs in the kernel space or runs as supervisor mode. Monolith kernel is alone an Operating System, like Linux kernel.
      Linux was before 2.2 version a old model of OS where the OS was always just one binary blob. After 2.2 release, the Linux got modularity on it. Since then you can compile the OS so that drivers or OS features (like networking) are as modules on the disk and loaded to RAM only when the applications needs from Operating System such features. This helps making the Operating System to take less memory than the Macro kernel (Linux before 2.2). Linux is still a Monolith operating system.

      The micro kernel is not an operating system alone. It's idea is just to make very modular and so on secure and stable OS. So that every OS part is separated from each other and moved to user space and these OS modules ran as secured process to the micro kernel. These modules and micro kernel together builds an Operating System. Micro kernel runs alone in kernel space and all OS modules (filesystems, networking, drivers etc) are on the user space and all these are in supervisor mode.

      You need to have in the kernel the basic features so it knows where to load the other OS modules what operating system needs to serve the hardware for the other software (software libraries, system programs, application programs etc).

      If thinking of Minix 3 or NT Operating System. What both have a micro kernel structure on them. You have very small kernel (in Minix it is about 4000 lines of code) and all other OS parts are on the user space. You need to have basic things like basic IPC on the micro kernel so it can control the operating system modules.

      On the Monolith operating system (kernel) it is easier because you just need an bootloader (Grub, Lilo etc) what loads the operating system and then the operating system makes the check for itself and the hardware and then it starts first system process called Init (and other variations from it) and that starts all other system services and those starts other applications untill you get an complete software system booted. The Operating System is just very small piece of the software system like Ubuntu or Mandriva (or Windows Vista and Windows 7).

      The micro kernel just loads the filesystem module and it starts doing it's part to serve the filesystems for the other OS modules and applications. Just like network module serve the network services and work together with drivers and all these are controlled by the micro kernel.

      http://www.computer.org/portal/site/computer/menuitem.5d61c1d591162e4b0ef1bd108bcd45f3/index.jsp?&pName=computer_level1_article&TheCat=1005&path=computer/homepage/0506&file=cover1.xml&xsl=article.xsl&jsessionid=JLn7HZkxtsFGpSQ0ny0TxY17LhbyhWycJQLWx70pRnx1JnQn9j7g!289239620

    18. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by AnibalOjeda · · Score: 1

      i hate initrd

      --
      Saludos, Anibal Ojeda http://anibalnet.nl
    19. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by Njovich · · Score: 2, Informative

      Have you tried programming against the minix kernel? Maybe in 5 years it will be better, but it is very lacking in features, documentation and overal quality (ie. it is buggy and not very good overall). Minix looks good from the offset, but it would need a lot of work to get to such a state...

    20. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by Vanders · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No. Linux only needs to understand initrd because it uses initrd. If Linux supported it, GRUB (or any other Multiboot compliant loader) can load all of the required kernel modules on behalf of the kernel, including the root filesystem module.

      This is exactly how Syllable does things. All of it's filesystems, bus drivers and disc subsystems are loadable modules and we rely on GRUB to load them all at boot time, then the kernel initialises them all before it mounts it's root filesystem.

    21. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by Morty · · Score: 1

      OK, if you modify the kernel architecture enough, yes, you can move more of the loading burden into the boot manager, just list HURD. So how about support for software RAID, logical volume management, encrypted FSs, and the like? grub can't do all that stuff today. And it shouldn't. At some point, you are moving so much complexity into the boot manager that you are defeating the design purpose of simplifying the kernel.

    22. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by Yfrwlf · · Score: 1

      Yeah, try telling that to a normal computer user. I'm sure they will be in awe at their freedom to compile. This is one of the things that makes Linux so annoying to those who don't know how or want to deal with the hassle of compiling, and oh don't forget even to those who DO know how. Sure, the kernel is "advanced" and most users don't need to care about it, but loading drivers IS something that is important to normal computer users, as is general program portability. The "oh just compile it" attitude has hurt the push for "portable apps" (cross-distro) on Linux, and as such means that if you want something outside of your repos, it's often spans from being difficult to requiring a wizard, from the point of view of, again, normal users. Until Linux does a better job at appealing to these users and providing this amazing feature called portable apps in a much better way than it does now, Linux will be held back.

      Sure, Linux has other problems too, but IMO this is the biggest and most widely ignored. At least there is Zero Install, but it's more of a patch than solution.

      A free(dom) OS isn't very free to users if they don't have the freedom to easily install apps. An OS that stands for freedom should work heavily on solving Linux's packaging mess in order to provide this freedom.

      --
      Promote true freedom - support standards and interoperability.
    23. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not suggested you'd have to put everything in modules, just point out that it can be done. Syllable puts partition decoding in the kernel, just as Linux should have LVM support in-kernel. There are no technical reasons why software RAID and encryption modules could be loaded just like any other module, though.

      You only need the bootloader to load the minimal number of modules required for the kernel to mount the boot filesystem, where the rest of the files it needs can be kept. Admittedly in a complex configuration that can be a large number of modules: even on Syllable, booting from a USB device requires GRUB to load something like ten individual modules. However it's really no slower than loading a (possibly quite large) initrd, and certainly no more technically challenging. It also has the clear advantage that you don't need a special initrd filesystem, or deflate support in the kernel, and you do not need special magic to change your initial boot configuration.

    24. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by andy.ruddock · · Score: 1

      He just suggested that all the extra stuff not be compiled into the kernel. Do you need drivers for webcam, printer and scanner before you've started your desktop? No, so build them as modules, the kernel can load them later when required.

      --
      God: An invisible friend for grown-ups.
    25. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by Jay+L · · Score: 1

      I think FUSE's killer app is instant APIs for legacy code.

      Think about ad-blocking proxies; you can use them with any browser, because they insert themselves into the data stream and rewrite it on the fly. FUSE lets you write proxies for the file system. You can now insert yourself into the data stream for any disk-based application.

      Example: iTunes doesn't support FLAC files. But TwistedFLAC is a MacFUSE file system that lets you mount a directory of FLAC files, and display them to iTunes as WAVs.

      Inefficient, compared to rewriting the main application? Sure. But far more extensible. Decades ago, we realized that if you could

      1. access an arbitrary amount of virtual memory, and have the OS persist it to disk, and
      2. access an arbitrary amount of disk space, and have the OS cache the data, and
      3. if the system were fast enough

      then your choice between RAM and disk is merely: "What's the most convenient design metaphor?"

      FUSE can do the same for APIs and middleware.

    26. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      You've just recreated the philosophy behind ReiserFS 4.

      Hans wanted it to be possible for you to even do "cat blah.mp3 > /dev/dsp".

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    27. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by Jay+L · · Score: 1

      You've just recreated the philosophy behind ReiserFS 4.

      Hans wanted it to be possible for you to even do "cat blah.mp3 > /dev/dsp".

      I'd like to take a moment here to emphasize that I don't necessarily agree with ALL his philosophies, per se.

    28. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by Wrath0fb0b · · Score: 1

      A database management system is nothing but a fancy filesystem with structured files, yet they are often used in servers and perform just fine.

      The performance penalty from having both FUSE and a DB layer is additive.

    29. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by jonaskoelker · · Score: 1

      Lilo did not support filesystem, so there was a tool that you needed to run each time you changed the kernel. That tool built a list of blocks, so that Lilo could load the kernel (from those blocks) without really understanding the filesystem.

      As far as I understand, grub does a similar thing: it knows a list of blocks where its understanding of file systems is stored. It then uses that understanding of file systems to read its configuration file and act on menu selections by loading a kernel and initrd.

      That leaves the question: what happens if the grub blocks move? Does grub tell the file system to park the blocks in a safe place? ISTR ReiserFS reserving a bunch of space for the boot loader such that it could have a set of non-moving blocks. Is that common practice?

      At least it's not done by the block faerie :)

    30. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      I'd like to take a moment here to emphasize that I don't necessarily agree with ALL his philosophies, per se.

      You don't want a killer's^H^H filesystem?

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    31. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by visualight · · Score: 1

      You're mixing up two complaints. And you can consider getting over both of them. Let me explain.

      The kernel already comes (from distros like suse and rh) with support for heaven and earth configured, there's not much more they can do to aid you in your quest to never type make && make modules_install.

      Cross-distro portability for packages has been talked about for years and will likely never happen for one good reason. On the face of it there are two issues here, the directory layout (which LSB is trying to address), and the tool chain. Neither of those are the base reason for not having portability. The real reason is that in the end, "Linux is Linux" no matter what distro you're using. That is they're (distros) mostly the same except for a few areas where distributions get to differentiate from each other. They are the kernel configuration, the package management system, the init system, the directory layout, and the tool chain. Giving you complete portability would require them to give these up and then we wouldn't have 'distros' anymore, we'd have logos. I don't think anyone wants that.

      --
      Samsung took back my unlocked bootloader because Google wants me to rent movies. They're both evil.
    32. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by ChrisA90278 · · Score: 1

      "A database management system is nothing but a fancy filesystem with structured files, yet they are often used in servers and perform just fine."

      Yes that is true but "perform just fine" for a database system means something different from "perform just fine" when you are talking about a file system.

      For example many people would be happy to see their DBMS do 500 table inserts per second but a file system that could to only 500 writes per second very slow.

      All this talk about what should go inside the kernel is pointless now that for years we've had a modular kernel. You can configure in or out what ever you like. If you want a user space file system you can have that or not have it. It's all very configurable.

    33. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by Chabo · · Score: 1

      All this talk about what should go inside the kernel is pointless now that for years we've had a modular kernel. You can configure in or out what ever you like. If you want a user space file system you can have that or not have it. It's all very configurable.

      Yay, now we get to argue over what the default should be!

      --
      Convert FLACs to a portable format with FlacSquisher
    34. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by wastedlife · · Score: 2, Informative

      http://grub.enbug.org/CurrentStatus?highlight=(ext4)

      grub2 currently supports ext4 and a google search will find you some patches to add it to older versions. I don't know if any distros include an ext4 compatible grub yet though, well aside from maybe gentoo ;)

      --
      Said, "It's just like dice but it's got more sides And it tells me who lives and who dies"
    35. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by Patch86 · · Score: 1

      No, we get to back distros who can argue over what the defaults should be.

      As is the beauty of the distro system- whatever you want, someone is bound to have already done the leg work.

    36. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by rts008 · · Score: 1

      It doesn't work like that. The kernel never uses its own filesystems' support to load itself... How could it if it hasn't been loaded yet?

      Loop...Head a splodes....loop....head a splodes....loop...he*&#()$&%$(#)(@

      I myself, could not answer him due to ignorance, but I did catch that one.

      Many thanks for a concise, informative reply. Well Done! :-)

      --
      Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
    37. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by rts008 · · Score: 1

      I believe Ubuntu(and the many derivitives like Kubuntu) should have an ext4* supported GRUB(as ext4 is being offered) when the 9.04 LTS distro's are released at the end of April.
      I have note seen any release notes specific to this, it is just an assumption on my part.

      *From what I have read, ext4 is being implemented as "ext4, non-journaled" file system. I have no clue if this would affect GRUB support or not.

      --
      Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
    38. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by ion.simon.c · · Score: 1

      Good to know that this is hitting mainstream so soon.

      Also, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for GRUB to worry about *any* journalling that it can ignore. Does GRUB typically write anything to disk after one runs grub-setup or the equivalent sequence of GRUB shell commands?

    39. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by ion.simon.c · · Score: 1

      Grub2 (1.9.6) is in the Gentoo Portage tree and currently masked. That means that it's still dangerous. :)

    40. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by rts008 · · Score: 1

      Does GRUB typically write anything to disk after one runs grub-setup or the equivalent sequence of GRUB shell commands?

      I am a bad one to answer, but since no one else has....

      I would say yes, as an answer to your question. I am thinking in terms of what the BIOS perceives as the MBR for your GRUB install.

      --
      Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
    41. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by ion.simon.c · · Score: 1

      I am thinking in terms of what the BIOS perceives as the MBR for your GRUB install.

      I don't understand. Could you please explain in more detail?

      Thanks for the reply!

    42. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      grub2 can even read software raid and lvm volumes just fine. which is even more impressive considering the tiny space it has to put these "drivers".

    43. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by wastedlife · · Score: 1

      That has never stopped any Gentoo user that I know. Although I guess that would satisfy my "not currently included" statement.

      --
      Said, "It's just like dice but it's got more sides And it tells me who lives and who dies"
    44. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by wastedlife · · Score: 1

      From what I have read, ext4 is being implemented as "ext4, non-journaled" file system. I have no clue if this would affect GRUB support or not.

      Are you talking about the kernel release notes? I believe those are stating that there is now a "no journal mode" included for ext4, which has had normal support for a while now.

      --
      Said, "It's just like dice but it's got more sides And it tells me who lives and who dies"
    45. Re:Filesystems in the kernel! by wastedlife · · Score: 1

      AFAIK, the MBR is its own chunk at the beginning of the drive that is not part of any partition. Installing grub puts some code into the MBR that reads your /boot partition. All the code in the MBR needs to be able to do is read, I don't think it needs to be able to write. So, if I am getting this correct, your boot happens like this:

      BIOS POSTs and finds a bootable device, like a hard disk with an MBR and launches this. The MBR (which contains most of the grub executable code IIRC) loads /boot and uses its own config there to bring up the boot menu. User selects an OS or it uses the configured default and initializes the kernel and initrd.

      --
      Said, "It's just like dice but it's got more sides And it tells me who lives and who dies"
  7. ext4 no journal mode? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    AKA ext2, but better/fatter?

    1. Re:ext4 no journal mode? by kfort · · Score: 1

      Extent support. In my experience ext2 can get pretty fragmented when running torrents.

    2. Re:ext4 no journal mode? by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 1

      Sooo... Any defragmenters out there yet?
      And while were on that topic: Any Linux-based NTFS defragmenters?

    3. Re:ext4 no journal mode? by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 2, Funny

      while we're on

      I'M SORRY GRAMMAR NAZIS!
      I promise I won't drop apostrophes any more!

    4. Re:ext4 no journal mode? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It seems as if most fs's out there have this issue. I have been fighting it with NTFS. I reduced the issue by having the program pre allocate the file before writing into it. The junk is scattered all over the disk but the fs at least makes an attempt at putting it in a reasonable location and it is usually in 1 chunk.

    5. Re:ext4 no journal mode? by jonaskoelker · · Score: 1

      This is the keystone grammar police. dont do that again, or well come after you and you're family.

    6. Re:ext4 no journal mode? by inasity_rules · · Score: 1

      Yeah, being in grammar police family is a truely scary threat... I suspect some would take Sue aside as an alternative.

      --
      I have determined that my sig is indeterminate.
    7. Re:ext4 no journal mode? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did somebody say FAT?

      --
      Steve Balmer

  8. Dataloss under Ext4: Obama to blame. by spaceturtle · · Score: 5, Funny

    Further investigation into the cause of dataloss under the Ext4 Filesystem has revealed that it is not the fault of Application Developers, Ext4, nor even the evil POSIX manual of Doom. Its turns out that it Obama is so corrupt that he has caused major dataloss all around the nation. There! At least I'm an *on topic* Troll. Was that so hard?

    1. Re:Dataloss under Ext4: Obama to blame. by Cassini2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      After the Ext4 dataloss discussion, and the "Don't fear the fsync()" posts, I don't want to hear about Ext4, fsync(), or data loss again.

    2. Re:Dataloss under Ext4: Obama to blame. by kv9 · · Score: 2, Funny

      After the Ext4 dataloss discussion, and the "Don't fear the fsync()" posts [...]

      right after this awesome discussion I've had two servers crash horribly. I accept this as further proof that we need should not anger the data loss gods (monsters? demons?) with such heretic talks.

    3. Re:Dataloss under Ext4: Obama to blame. by palegray.net · · Score: 1

      Oh my God, that's good stuff. You didn't go far enough, though...

      You see, all global data loss incidents are actually perpetrated by a shadowy cabal of operatives loyal to the American President, with the goal of putting honest, hard working I.T. professionals out of work and on welfare. As the welfare state increases, those poor lost souls will be thankful for the support they're receiving from the system, encouraging them to vote for the candidate most likely to support ongoing benefits.

      For those that resist, the Obama Operative Group has proven means of persuasion at their disposal.... "What's that? You were using Ext4 on your ex-employer's file server? Tssk, tssk... it'd really be a shame if they found out you were actually hosting a fifteen terabyte mirror of The Pirate Bay in their datacenter..."

      And thus, the world is rid of another hard working professional who has just trying to promote open source software in the organization that he was so loyal to.

    4. Re:Dataloss under Ext4: Obama to blame. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no need to worry there is 'ext4 no journal mode' to minimise the risk of pesky non-posix-style data recovery after a crash.

      hopefully 2.6.30 will be replacing fsck with rm -rf /. just to be sure.

    5. Re:Dataloss under Ext4: Obama to blame. by joeslugg · · Score: 1

      even the evil POSIX manual of Doom

      I didn't know "Doom" was POSIX-compliant. Sweet!

    6. Re:Dataloss under Ext4: Obama to blame. by Chemisor · · Score: 1

      > I don't want to hear about Ext4, fsync(), or data loss again.

      Well, tough for you. Those discussions are still missing the poing that using fsync is the bloody wrong thing to do. It is not my job to ensure that the filesystem operations are ordered properly. It is the filesystem's job. Period. And all the arguments you link to for using fsync miss this point entirely.

    7. Re:Dataloss under Ext4: Obama to blame. by wastedlife · · Score: 1

      I was one who was mislead that fsync() is the solution to issue. Before I go on another incorrect rant, am I correct in that the actual issue is when writing many small files, like in the GNOME and KDE configurations, the rename() operations leaves the both the original file and the new file with a size of zero until the next fsync() or until the filesystem forces a sync? And thus if there is power loss or crash, both the original file and the new file are basically lost?

      --
      Said, "It's just like dice but it's got more sides And it tells me who lives and who dies"
    8. Re:Dataloss under Ext4: Obama to blame. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Off-topic, so AC ...

      I love the typo, "missing the poing." This has indelibly entered my personal lexicon. I plan to miss the poing at every opportunity from now on, or at least accuse others of doing it.

      I'm all alone at the helpdesk today, so this really brightened my day. Poing on, brother.

    9. Re:Dataloss under Ext4: Obama to blame. by Chemisor · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes, but it's a more general issue of changing the order of operations. If I write a file and then rename it, I expect the writing to happen before the renaming. If I write to the file in two different places, I expect the actual writes to occur in the order I made them. ext4 designers evidently decided that they knew better how to order the writes, breaking everyone's expectations in the process. Sure, it probably improves performance because you can minimize seeks by ordering writes in a particular order, but the KDE problem illustrates that if you do that, you must at the very least ensure that the dependencies between files are honored. In KDE's case the dependency is between the file and the directory in which it is contained. When such a dependency exists, the filesystem MUST NOT reorder the writes! It isn't just KDE config files. The Firebird database engine, for example, does not fsync at all, relying instead on correct write ordering to preserve data integrity. If the ordering is broken, all Firebird databases will become corrupted.

    10. Re:Dataloss under Ext4: Obama to blame. by wastedlife · · Score: 1

      So does that mean this is causing corruption even without a crash or power failure? If I understand what you are saying, a file write is called and then a rename of that file is called. If ext4 calls the rename first because it thinks it will improve performance, will it then do the write to the renamed file or to the original? I am not a programmer, so I may be looking at rename() to be doing something completely different than it really is.

      --
      Said, "It's just like dice but it's got more sides And it tells me who lives and who dies"
    11. Re:Dataloss under Ext4: Obama to blame. by Chemisor · · Score: 1

      No, without a power failure or a crash nothing bad happens. If the data all makes it to the disk, it doesn't really matter in which order it was written. The corruption happens only when the sequence of writes is interrupted. A careful programmer will order writes to a file to keep the data readable at every point, tolerating an interruption anywhere. For example, the new data could be appended to the end of the file before overwriting any data in the middle, which is what ext3 does with the journal. If a crash happens, either there would be some extra data at the end of the file, or the overwrite would be partial. Both cases are recoverable; the first, by truncating the file and eliminating the new data, the second, by redoing the write with the new data. This way you can only lose whatever you were trying to write at the moment of the crash.

  9. New mascot (this kernel only) by bucketoftruth · · Score: 4, Informative

    The most important feature is the new mascot, Tuz. FTFA:
    As everybody knows, only important fixes will be merged into the mainline kernel at this late stage of the development cycle. One of the fixes merged by Linus on March 17 was a high-resolution SVG image of "Tuz," the mascot of the 2009 linux.conf.au conference. Tuz, in his new home at Documentation/logo.svg, serves to remind the world of the difficulties faced by the Tasmanian devil and how the linux.conf.au attendees supported the effort to save this species from extinction.

    1. Re:New mascot (this kernel only) by wrook · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If one wanted to help the plight of the Tasmanian devil, what would be the best thing to do (keeping in mind that I'm not in Australia)?

    2. Re:New mascot (this kernel only) by k-macjapan · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Hello. I have looked into this and found the following site. http://www.tasmaniandevilpark.com/index.html

      The link to their donation form is http://www.tasmaniandevilpark.com/friends.html

      Cheers

    3. Re:New mascot (this kernel only) by greg1104 · · Score: 1

      Help introduce more female she-devils of course.

      Wait, did you want a serious answer? How about Save the Tasmaian Devil.

    4. Re:New mascot (this kernel only) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      -1 karma whore?

    5. Re:New mascot (this kernel only) by kramulous · · Score: 1

      Sadly, this is probably the one species that is threatened by extinction that is *not* the result of humans. A highly infectious cancer is wiping them out.

      --
      .
    6. Re:New mascot (this kernel only) by jlebrech · · Score: 1

      What if someone invented some muzzle that would stop them biting each other but would still enabled them to eat their food.

    7. Re:New mascot (this kernel only) by kramulous · · Score: 1

      That would temporarily save the ones in captivity. But they'll die out eventually due to poor genetic diversity (or, that's how I interpret it).

      --
      .
    8. Re:New mascot (this kernel only) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      High-resolution SVG?

      don't think so.

    9. Re:New mascot (this kernel only) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Karma whore, are you serious? Someone asked how to help save the Tasmanian Devil, and so greg1104 posted a link to the "Save the Tasmanian Devil" website. He was being kind and helpful.

    10. Re:New mascot (this kernel only) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sadly, this is probably the one species that is threatened by extinction that is *not* the result of humans.

      I read somewhere that the disease may have been introduced by foxes - a non-native species brought to Tasmania by man.

    11. Re:New mascot (this kernel only) by rts008 · · Score: 1

      Help introduce more female she-devils of course.

      Directive from Dept. of Redundancy Dept.:

      Then we need to also alert the 'rolling pin' makers to ramp up production, and install a deceptive 'right-turn' sign in Albuquerque'.
      Oh, yeah, and alert Elmer Fudd....code-named: 'Kill the Wabbit!".
      Better alert Wile E. Coyote, Super Genius, also.
      You can never be too sure! (I suggest Yosemite Sam to command the back-up assault!)

      We are ready to provide cover and support! *straps on roller skates and backpack rockets...lights match*

      BTW, thanks for the link! :-)

      --
      Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
  10. Better crypto support == goodness. by palegray.net · · Score: 4, Informative

    eCryptfs filename encryption

    Here's the eCryptfs home page for more information on this nifty addition.

  11. that's not tux's nose, it's a false one!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did you dress him up like this??

  12. Oh come on, that's totally on topic! by FooAtWFU · · Score: 4, Informative

    Tuz the Tasmanian devil has replaced Tux as the kernel mascot (for this release) to raise awareness of this endangered species (which is threatened with extinction due to a scientifically interesting but horrific transmissible facial cancer.).

    --
    The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    1. Re:Oh come on, that's totally on topic! by Brain_Recall · · Score: 2, Interesting
      The reason why it's "scientifically interesting" is:

      Devil Facial Tumour Disease (DFTD) is extremely unusual as it is only one of three recorded cancers that can spread like a contagious disease. The cancer is passed from devil to devil through biting. The live tumour cells aren't rejected by the animal's immune system because of a lack of genetic diversity among Tasmanian devils.

      See: http://tassiedevil.com.au/disease.html

    2. Re:Oh come on, that's totally on topic! by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 3, Funny

      Looks like it's time to change into my "Tasmanian Devil with huge friggin' tumor at the mouth" costume for the "I'm Linux" competition.

  13. I have a dream..... by bogaboga · · Score: 0

    ...that the cohesion that is characteristic of the Linux kernel as a "final product" gets to visit its desktop environment as well.

    This is not to suggest that it's all a bed of roses within the Linux kernel development process. I have been to the kernel mailing list and I know what goes on there. What I see in the kernel as a final product is manifestation of strong leadership and the ability to see beyond the time in which we live.

    My hope is that we get to merge efforts to produce a desktop product that is not only beautiful to look at, but also a joy to work with. Sadly, we have the manpower and the tools to do just that but we fail because of politics and egos.

    Let's recognize that these two "poisons" do nothing in advancing the ideology of "world domination."

    1. Re:I have a dream..... by inKubus · · Score: 3, Funny

      Sorry dude, you have to wait for kernel 2.8 for the joy and beauty modules that will enable your desktop product to have those attributes.

      --
      Cool! Amazing Toys.
    2. Re:I have a dream..... by Abreu · · Score: 5, Insightful

      [sigh]

      This again?

      For the last time, Gnome and KDE are not going to merge! And we don't want them to merge! Healthy, friendly competition is good!

      A Single-Unified-Linux-Desktop is neither desirable nor necessary for "world domination" or even "the year of the Linux Desktop"

      --
      No sig for the moment.
    3. Re:I have a dream..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      for the last time, they've been merging them for years. i run both kde and gnome apps on a third desktop environment with a fourth window manager.

    4. Re:I have a dream..... by slash.duncan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No kidding.

      I'm honestly not sure it still applies to KDE in the 4.x era, but at least in the 3.x era, the philosophies were quite different. Gnome's policy of (pseudoquote) "there's one best way to do it and we don't want to confuse the users with too many config options" was extremely frustrating for many KDE users and devs, particularly the power users that /like/ to configure the desktop until it uniquely fits them like a glove, while likewise, the KDE "if it can be configured, different people are going to want different things, so let's expose every single possible configuration option to the user in the GUI" was extremely frustrating to many Gnome users and devs, particularly those who just want it to work, damit, because they have work to do.

      The point is, forcing the devs and users who find the one policy most useful to follow the other one, surely is effective... at causing useless squabbles and getting nothing done! Keep the "there's only one true way" folks away from the "make it configurable for everyone" folks, and both types can continue to improve their product without getting in the way of each other.

      Similarly of course with all the other "Linux is too divided" debates, from too many distributions, to vi/emacs, to... whatever. It's a free community and part of the strength therein lies in the freedom. Even if it were possible to take away that freedom to create one's own product, there'd be little point, as were it to happen, we'd just end up back with the monopolistic monstrosity that is MS. One size does NOT fit all, and encouraging differentiation and innovation, certainly based on common standards, but /only/ /based/ on common standards, is a /good/ thing.

      That said, the one thing that does keep the Linux community from incompatibly splitting up much like the proprietary Unix community did is again, that it's all open and shared. Each distribution and individual app therefore has an interest not only in doing what it was created for really well, even if that splits from the community, but ALSO in following the common solution where it really doesn't matter for what it was created for, because every deviation from the common solution costs maintenance time and resources, time and resources that could otherwise be invested in bettering either the differentiating aspects further, or in advancing the common ones. In practice this dynamic ensures that individual solutions only diverge from the common where it really matters to them, because every divergence costs resources, and divergence just for the sake of it is thus less efficient and dies out relatively quickly, compared to those who focus resources on divergence only where it directly furthers their goals and on otherwise bettering the common solution, submitting patches upstream, etc. Thus, unlike the proprietary Unix solutions, divergence for the sake of divergence simply isn't efficient enough to survive, and ultimately dies. But where there's a good reason for divergence, that only serves to drive a sharper focus on bettering the different solutions that remain, driving the evolution of the community as a whole even faster.

      (Umm... (looking around) I guess it's pretty obvious that I'm a "True Believer" (tm), isn't it. Yes, I am, and for that I'm not going to apologize! =:^)

      --
      Duncan
      "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master,
      and if you use the program, he is your master."
      R Stallman
    5. Re:I have a dream..... by koiransuklaa · · Score: 1

      I have a dream that the cohesion that is characteristic of the Linux kernel as a "final product" gets to visit its desktop environment as well.

      Cohesion? No no. There are people developing all sorts of BSDs, Darwin, Hurd, etc. It's shockingly wasteful, I know. All these people should stop wasting their time and start developing a unified kernel.

    6. Re:I have a dream..... by gbjbaanb · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Gnome's policy of (pseudoquote) "there's one best way to do it and we don't want to confuse the users with too many config options" was extremely frustrating for many KDE users and devs, particularly the power users that /like/ to configure the desktop until it uniquely fits them like a glove, while likewise, the KDE "if it can be configured, different people are going to want different things, so let's expose every single possible configuration option to the user in the GUI" was extremely frustrating to many Gnome users and devs, particularly those who just want it to work, damit, because they have work to do.

      so the best thing to do, is give a fully configurable system, and ship with a default set of configurations. Choose one at install: 'desktop', 'server', 'custom' or 'mom' configuration options.

      dumbing things down because you think your users don't want options is patronising and stupid. even the ones who 'just want it to work' will occasionally disagree with a choice you made for them.

      I think multiple desktop environments is still a good thing, but a unified development environment would be even better. That's my problem with Gnome v KDE - not the desktop per se, but the 2 different ways of developing GUIs. If there was just the one, it'd be easier to do the development, things would fit nicer together, they'd probably be better support and facilities for the development. This is one thing Microsoft got right (along with its GUI style guidelines). Think of this like common standards, you can build any website, but you do it using a common set of html primitives; or you can build any linux distro, but you do it with a common kernel.

    7. Re:I have a dream..... by pr0nbot · · Score: 1

      Keep the "there's only one true way" folks away from the "make it configurable for everyone" folks, and both types can continue to improve their product without getting in the way of each other.

      The tragedy of it, at least from an outsider's view, is that while the aims of KDE and Gnome are 95% the same and only 5% different, the 5% difference has caused the 95% of effort to be duplicated.

      Is it beyond the realm of possibility to have one desktop environment, fully configurable, and a "user-friendly" skinning of it that hides most of the configuration? If the answer is that KDE and Gnome are already like that, then there is a really tragic 100% duplication of effort.

    8. Re:I have a dream..... by Cid+Highwind · · Score: 1

      Is it beyond the realm of possibility to have one desktop environment, fully configurable, and a "user-friendly" skinning of it that hides most of the configuration?

      Yes. Gnome does this by hiding a lot of obscure options in gconf instead of exposing them in the UI, and people like you still complain that there aren't any options. QED

      If the answer is that KDE and Gnome are already like that, then there is a really tragic 100% duplication of effort.

      You're begging the "Mythical Man-Month" question, that is assuming that doubling the number of developers on one desktop is going to double the quality of that desktop. It won't, and in the short term adding people is likely to make things worse!

      And let's not even get into the number of talented-but-egotistical people on both sides who will would say "Piss off! You killed my pet project, I'm not helping with yours." and go off to develop iPhone fart noise apps instead of working on the other desktop...

      --
      0 1 - just my two bits
    9. Re:I have a dream..... by tuffy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's an imagined tragedy. Yes, there is a lot of duplication of effort between the two camps. But tasking their combined developers with a single desktop system (GDE? KNOME?) is unlikely to make it twice as good, or get features completed twice as fast. Instead, it'll probably lead to the reverse.

      --

      Ita erat quando hic adveni.

    10. Re:I have a dream..... by skeeto · · Score: 1

      My hope is that we get to merge efforts to produce a desktop product that is not only beautiful to look at, but also a joy to work with.

      Not only is it impossible to get everyone to agree on what makes a good desktop, but competition is vital for creating a good user experience. Why do you think Windows sucks so completely? One reason is that most people who use computers don't have any choice but to use Windows: there is no healthy competition to force MS to make it not suck.

      Merging efforts is bad because it means we are all stuck with the lowest common denominator. Imagine an America On-line desktop. No thanks.

    11. Re:I have a dream..... by slash.duncan · · Score: 1

      You're correct, tho I'd not put it in quite those terms.

      It's important to remember that for the most part, the FLOSS (Free/libre and open source software) community is composed of volunteers. While few would have the crass my way or no way reaction you suggest, the point is that there's always other things a good coder could be working on, always a dozen other projects he's interested in too, competing for his attention, and when motivation on a particular one he's spending a lot of time on goes down, so, ultimately, does his level of contribution to that project.

      Thus the effect in practice is the same even if the reasons given differ. If a project doesn't closely enough follow a dev's ideals, he'll be less committed to it, and there's always more projects competing for his time and interest than he has time and interest to give anyway, so his participation by defining characteristic ultimately goes down as well. Thus, form a combined KDE/GNOME/XFCE/whatever, and the loss of interest will almost certainly mean it progresses little if any faster than each of the projects is doing on its own, now. At the same time, the competitiveness and copying of great ideas from one to the other will decrease as well, and Linux and larger FLOSS (including the freedomware BSDs and OpenSolaris) community will suffer not only the loss of variety, but the loss of internal competitive pressure and innovation it now has, with little if any gain in trade.

      Meanwhile, there's actually quite a decent amount of cooperation and standard setting going on as it is. The freedesktop.org effort has standardized a quite a lot in the last few years, including among other things both *.desktop file format and the dbus interprocess communication protocol, both of which now are a common format used by both desktops. xorg itself is now a freedesktop.org project too, and there are continuing efforts in other areas. Where it makes sense, there's common standards, with each desktop having its own implementation, bringing its own flavor to the standard, while allowing a much higher level of cooperation than before, and apps from the one desktop that fit into the scheme configured for the other, or for both. It is in fact rather sad that the original "I have a dream" poster didn't mention these efforts at all.

      --
      Duncan
      "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master,
      and if you use the program, he is your master."
      R Stallman
    12. Re:I have a dream..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A Single-Unified-Linux-Desktop is neither desirable nor necessary for "world domination" or even "the year of the Linux Desktop"

      A Single-Unified-Linux-Desktop is probably not necessary, but I'm willing to bet that a Single-Unified-Linux-Desktop API is necessary. If I want to get at a Windows user's address book, I'll use MAPI. If I want to get at an OS X user's address book, I'll use those APIs. If I want to get at a Linux user's address book, I'd love to be able to link to a libaddrbook.so to get at it.

    13. Re:I have a dream..... by B1ackDragon · · Score: 1

      Would it also be bad to suggest that they at least use the same gui toolkit?

      I'm always trying to get my gtk apps to look like my qt apps (gtkqt etc.), and it never seems to work quite right. There are a lot of good gtk apps which don't have equivalent qt versions and vice-versa. It keeps my poor linux desktop looking sad and unprofessional :(

      --
      The snow doesn't give a soft white damn whom it touches. -- ee cummings
    14. Re:I have a dream..... by ion.simon.c · · Score: 1

      Would it also be bad to suggest that they at least use the same gui toolkit?

      It wouldn't too bad, iffin the difference between GTK and QT were just the look of the widgets.

      It keeps my poor linux desktop looking sad and unprofessional

      I've never understood this point of view. Don't we have work to do? How anal are we that we feel the need to be spending time worrying about the differences between one app's default widgets and file dialog boxes and another's? :)

    15. Re:I have a dream..... by ion.simon.c · · Score: 1

      If I want to get at a Windows user's address book, I'll use MAPI.

      Unless your Windows user is using Thunderbird. (Or one of the "million" other mail applications that are sure to have broken MAPI support.)
      http://kb.mozillazine.org/MAPI_Support

    16. Re:I have a dream..... by B1ackDragon · · Score: 1

      Eh, I have a few OCD tendencies. For instance, my productivity decreases as a function of my desk entropy ;) Not so much because I can't find stuff, but because I'm easily distracted/annoyed at the incongruences of a messy desk (or non-matching widgets...)

      --
      The snow doesn't give a soft white damn whom it touches. -- ee cummings
    17. Re:I have a dream..... by ion.simon.c · · Score: 1

      I'm easily distracted/annoyed at the incongruences of a messy desk...

      I see. My desk (whether at home or at work) would drive you up the wall. :)

  14. Forget Taz; Get Badzt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Linux need to adopt Batdz Maru as the mascot.
    http://www.decalsusa.com/images/badtz maru colors.GIF

  15. Yo Dawg by Danny+Rathjens · · Score: 3, Funny

    We herd you like graphic modesetting, so we included the inclusion in your kernel so you can set modes while you include.

    Sorry - "include the inclusion" just screamed out for this. :)

    1. Re:Yo Dawg by ianmacfarlane · · Score: 2, Funny

      You HURD what?

  16. Use an initrd. by spaceturtle · · Score: 5, Informative

    Even in Linux, most distro's don't have full filesystems built into the kernel. Instead they only build in a tiny in-memory fs that allows them to read an initrd. This means that they can have virtually any filesystem as a root filesystem without having to compile every conceivable filesystem into their general purpose kernel.

    It is also possible to avoid ever booting in the way Linux machines boot. Instead, the boot process could act like the hibernate/resume functionality of Linux. So instead of loading programs into the address space from a filesystem, we simply read the resulting address space from disk. After all, some embedded devices don't need to ever use a filesystem, so in these cases loading a fs would be a waste of resources.

  17. Re:Obama Policies Will Bankrupt the USA Tsarkon Re by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Obama Policies Will Bankrupt the USA Tsarkon Reports

    Tsarkon? Wasn't he the pointy-eared blue villain from Voltron?

  18. Re:Obama Policies Will Bankrupt the USA Tsarkon Re by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, a wizard king from Cartahena. GOSH-ND style.

  19. Re:ron paulsy-careerist and YART by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Interesting. If Ron Paul is "this bad," its Amazing to think that most of the rest of congress, the senate and most of the fellows in the Cabinet and the President himself are actually dumber that Ron. Scary thought. Because to them Negative $11 Trillion plus negative $10 Trillion = better off ??!? (no no sure it works).

  20. Pronounce: Butterface.

    --
    <xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
  21. Access Point Wi-Fi - HOW?? by jdogalt · · Score: 1

    Someone- please tell me what usb wifi adapter product can be used to make this happen? I have searched and found some related docs that mention support being limited to a couple chipsets. Which always confused my too-much-but-too-little networking knowledge. The git commit message here mentions nothing about hardware support limits. My prior test, perhaps invalid, was to take a fedora-9 box, buy several usb adapters, and type "iwconfig bla mode master" hoping for success, but never seeing success. I always thought this was because the prism2 or whatever supported chipsets were rare, but now maybe I'm thinking the code wasn't in the kernel yet??? Please someone, give me a link to a newegg or amazon usb product, and the essence of the quick howto.

    1. Re:Access Point Wi-Fi - HOW?? by pedrop357 · · Score: 1

      I bought one at jefatech.com in 2007. It's a WIFI-Link WL-USB-RSMA.
      This link is the exact one I have.

      I only know how to do AP mode in Windows .

  22. Cross reference by Anthony_Cargile · · Score: 1

    I've added a cross reference for the new kernel source to my site here. Also included is a .patch generator, just click the "modify" link next to files (the $modify text next to directories is a bug) and you can generate a .patch for sending upstream based on your edits. Just thought I'd contribute somehow.

  23. Not what you are asking for but... by Sits · · Score: 5, Informative

    The Linux wireless drivers page lists which drivers support master/access point mode (see the AP column). The list isn't perfect (the hostap driver definitely supports AP mode :-) but it seems to be a case of omissions. The table also says what form factor the supported chipsets come in (so you can tell which ones you will be able to get in USB form). I'd guess the rt2500usb or p54usb drivers would be your best bet.

    Another useful page is the Linux wireless chipset directory which tries to list which cards have which chipsets (there's even a single page table with all the added chipsets but I won't link to it from here). This lets you build a list of boxes with the desired chipsets inside them (finding out whether this is true in reality can in itself can be a fraught process though). The chipset is really the important part in all of this.

    I'm not going to point to an Amazon page because I have not bought a USB wifi card with the capabilities you describe from Amazon. I'm in no position to tell you that XYZ USB device on Amazon definitely works as I haven't done it myself. I have used hostapd on Linux and OpenBSD before now on a creaky old Prism 2.5 card and that worked for me but again that's not what you asked.

    Finally here's a guide to using hostapd to set a card up in access point mode (just using iwconfig to set master mode is not enough). Googling for hostapd linux will turn up plenty more guides which may be easier to follow.

    Good luck!

    1. Re:Not what you are asking for but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      >>

      Finally here's a guide to using hostapd to set a card up in access point mode (just using iwconfig to set master mode is not enough). Googling for hostapd linux will turn up plenty more guides which may be easier to follow.

      Good luck!



      What's wrong with Linux and its ecosystem? Why do we have to google for information on how to use our systems? It all should be in manpages or other official documentation like in BSD.
    2. Re:Not what you are asking for but... by bn557 · · Score: 2, Informative

      As the author of most of the information on the hostapd page on wireless.k.o, I can tell you that, up until recently, most of that information was changing on a weekly basis. Now that 2.6.29 has landed, the documentation will start to firm up quickly. I figured I had at least another week to finish the hostapd docs. While the documentation included with hostapd is good, it's too much. There are like 200 options that only a handful of people would even need to consider in it.

      --
      Humans are slow, innaccurate, and brilliant; computers are fast, acurrate, and dumb; together they are unbeatable
    3. Re:Not what you are asking for but... by jdogalt · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that was all pretty much stuff I've read before. You mention 'fraught' which was I wanted it boiled down to- what product is available _today_ that can use this feature. Likewise, I do have an rt2500usb adapter, and didn't see any joy with it when trying 'iwconfig device mode master'. So any information on whether or not the output of that command would change based on the kernel would be helpful.

      Or just shoot down my theory that that is a valid test. I believe I started doing that after reading the links you mentioned, and believing that if I saw success, then, and only then would it be worth spending time getting the tools and perhaps patching the kernel.

      Also, maybe some essential info about why or whether support is in fact limited to chipsets. I.e. is it really physically impossible to 'fake' a real AP when you have the ability to read and write raw 802.11 packets? What actual hardware are these(?) chipsets giving us that makes something possible that wouldn't be without the hardware.

      Basically my real issue is NDS homebrew, whose toolchain currently only supports AP mode, and not ad-hoc. There are libraries(liblobby) which sound like they crudely achieve the quasi-ad-hoc mode that nintendo uses for its games, but I don't want to invest the time with those, or writing my own crude-hack, until I have a better understanding of what truly are the hardware issues involved, especially because my interest is in the nds as a universal cloud device that could control any PC in any arbitrary way. Right now I just dedicate an AP to the task, but I would love it if I didn't have to (and from my vague knowledge, I'm sure what I want is possible, and was hoping this was a good quick first pass)

    4. Re:Not what you are asking for but... by Sits · · Score: 1

      My apologies - I didn't know what you had already tried. It looks like I just told you what you already knew.

      As for has anything changed, I think you would be better off asking on the Linux wireless mailing list rather than Slashdot as that's where the devs are. Certainly there have been changes made to the Ralink wifi drivers but whether they would help your case is something I would just have to ask someone else or read the source (and time is limited as it stands).

      I wasn't trying to shoot down your theory. It's just that I felt that just finding out that you had master mode support would not be enough to know whether it would really work and that something else could be wrong even if master mode worked. I am basically agreeing with your observation that with what you currently know it's not worth pouring more time on this until you learn of a reason why something would have changed.

      I would guess the ability get at raw frames is down to firmware support that has a mode that passes packets unchanged to the OS in a known manner rather than additional hardware. This is an extra that most people simply don't need and is another thing that can go wrong so I'd guess some vendors feel no need to expose such a feature.

  24. Politics is not evil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Au contraire... the politics of the Linux kernel are part of what drives the project forward. Saying it does 'nothing in advancing' and calling it a 'poison' is short-sighted and, frankly, wrong. (The same is true for ego, but The Skyhooks have covered that adequately.)

    Politics is not inherently bad. No, politics is human nature. Politics is part and parcel of working in a team. Politics is the process of managing and even leveraging tension, conflict, and disagreement in order to create an environment in which progress can occur.

    Sure, it can become destructive - but that's not due to the existence of politics, merely due to its not being managed correctly. I don't think this is the case here. The rate of progress of the Linux kernel suggests to me that the people contributing to its development have formed a comparatively highly performing team.

    Once politics is accepted as a fact of life, it becomes much easier to look at the psychological dynamics involved and find ways of working with it. That's immeasurably better than claiming people are stupid and yelling about it without offering anything constructive.

    Politics is the dynamics of human interaction. It is, therefore, rather difficult to hate politics without also hating people.

  25. Amount of drivers added by cerberusss · · Score: 1

    I was slightly disappointed when looking for the amount of drivers added for desktop users. Looking through the release log, I can only find one driver added for the home desktop user. It's for a new 3G modem, which is nice. I'd expected lots of other devices to be added, actually. One of the things that disappoints people when moving to Linux, is that it doesn't support their hardware.

    --
    8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
    1. Re:Amount of drivers added by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One of the things that disappoints people when moving to Linux, is that it doesn't support their hardware.

      Linux supports more hardware than any other OS.

    2. Re:Amount of drivers added by cerberusss · · Score: 1

      I know, but what I meant was new hardware. Linux often can't keep up with the rapid rate of new hardware flooding the market.

      --
      8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
    3. Re:Amount of drivers added by koiransuklaa · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure you only read the short log -- changes from -rc8 -- as there should be several new drivers. More importantly, support for new devices is added to existing drivers if possible. Each kernel release usually supports hundreds of new devices.

    4. Re:Amount of drivers added by Vanders · · Score: 1

      Where's all this new hardware that has been released in the last three months which does not have Linux drivers?

    5. Re:Amount of drivers added by macshit · · Score: 1

      I was slightly disappointed when looking for the amount of drivers added for desktop users. Looking through the release log, I can only find one driver added for the home desktop user.

      ...

      I know, but what I meant was new hardware. Linux often can't keep up with the rapid rate of new hardware flooding the market.

      If a new device uses a standard protocol or an already-supported chipset, there usually doesn't need to be a new driver for it. With more and more hardware using standard interfaces these days (usb, etc), there's less and less need for new drivers.

      So the concept of "counting new drivers" (as you claim to have done) is meaningless.

      If there's a device you want to use, and you find it isn't supported (and by "find" I mean, you try it, and it doesn't work), that's the time to complain.

      Did you do that? Or are you just complaining for the sake of complaining?

      --
      We live, as we dream -- alone....
    6. Re:Amount of drivers added by Spoke · · Score: 1

      Linux often can't keep up with the rapid rate of new hardware flooding the market.

      No, this isn't Linux's problem. The problem is that hardware manufactures either don't bother writing Linux drivers themselves, or they don't bother releasing specifications so that Linux kernel hackers can easily write drivers.

  26. ext4 fs corrupted by assert(0) · · Score: 2, Interesting

    When upgrading from .28 to one of the latest .29 rc's, one of my ext4 filesystems got corrupted. Something to do with resize inode. Had to reboot my old .28 kernel to be able to fix it with fsck. No data loss that I'm aware of (lost+found was empty).

    I think this was originally an ext4dev fs from the .26 era. I have been staying with .28 since. This is a 322 GB fs which is not critical for boot, but obviously I don't want to lose data.

    Perhaps I ought to backup and recreate the fs under .29.

    --
    (founded 95,000,000 yrs ago, very space opera)
    1. Re:ext4 fs corrupted by andrewd18 · · Score: 1

      Did you report it? Can't get fixed if it's not reported. http://bugzilla.kernel.org/

    2. Re:ext4 fs corrupted by assert(0) · · Score: 1

      No. I don't have enough information to whip up a useful bug report. Since I didn't lose any data I haven't been motivated enough to investigate it any deeper. This fs has been through some shit... My other ext4 fs's migrated OK.

      --
      (founded 95,000,000 yrs ago, very space opera)
  27. Fake beak by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So the fake beak is to hide the horrific facial deformities, not to pretend to be a penguin?

    1. Re:Fake beak by wastedlife · · Score: 1

      No, the beak is the horrific facial deformity.

      --
      Said, "It's just like dice but it's got more sides And it tells me who lives and who dies"
  28. this problem will never be fixed unless... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    every time someone in china assembles the hardware of your gizmo, the software that goes with it has to be created as well. now, that software will be for windows, because thats >90% of the market. you have to pay people to make that software, and if you want linux drivers, you have to pay people more, because it takes time to do work like write software. so... ask your average business owner if they want to pay a lot more money to cover a tiny tiny percentage of the market?

    now throw in the fact that certain companies are worried about politics, like their 'good relationship' with microsoft, which gives them early access to microsoft development releases, etc, which helps them get to market quicker, blah blah blah etc.

    most of the time you throw all this together, and the decision is 'no we arent doing a linux driver'. . . .so it is left up to volunteer hackers to either reverse engineer the software using their l33t skillz, or company insiders to do some of their own work, to release various drivers and such on the internets.

    but basically, you are never going to have a situation where 'hot new gadget' has linux drivers out of the box, unless, somehow, linux becomes some huge part of the market for that gadget.

    maybe in europe it might happen, or china... who knows. in some markets linux is much stronger than others... but in America, which is still a huge market, if not the biggest market, windows rules the day.

    1. Re:this problem will never be fixed unless... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      every time someone in china assembles the hardware of your gizmo, the software that goes with it has to be created as well. now, that software will be for windows, because thats >90% of the market

      Then they're incompetent. Part of that software should be for receiving USB data by the same protocol that has been used over the last decade, and the other part should be for interpreting postscript or hppcl.

      If a new printer needs a new "driver" then you know the printer manufacturer is clueless, not merely taking the path of least resistant. Or to put it another way: if you can't get it to work with Linux, then it's probably a buggy piece of shit that wouldn't have lasted more than a couple months anyway.

  29. Then what happens to XFCE? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Windowmaker? IceWM? enlightenment?

    These are available, but apparently the ONLY thing keeping "Linux from the Desktop" is that KDE and GNOME exist.

    Nah, I don't buy it.

    When they are merged, you'll be complaining that there's KNOMDE and WindowMaker and that you won't get "Linux on the Desktop" until they are merged.

    Then WMKNOMDE and XFCE will stop there being "Linux on the Desktop".

    And when there is only one desktop, it will be that it's the wrong one.

    And when it's the right one, it'll be that GIMP is a stupid name for a program.

    And when it's named something else...

  30. Re:Obama Policies Will Bankrupt the USA Tsarkon Re by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is now official. Netcraft confirms: *BSD is dying

    One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

    You don't need to be the Amazing Kreskin to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.

    FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying.

    Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

    OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.

    Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

    All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.

    Fact: *BSD is dying

  31. "most people" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What I find really weird is that on Windows, the default paper size is always "letter", when most people use A4.

    Not in the U.S.

    Given that the rest of the world is over 5.5 billion people, and the US is about 320 million, I would consider that to mean "most people".

  32. KMS is Intel-only for now by ianmacfarlane · · Score: 4, Informative

    Kernel Mode Setting (KMS) is only for Intel hardware in this release. Other graphics hardware will have to wait for a later release.

  33. Disappointed by dpiven · · Score: 1

    The most important feature is the new mascot, Tuz.

    And here I was thinking we were going to get a new, faster, slimmed-down penguin.

  34. Don't forget.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    PS3 access to full 512MB of memory via PS3FB driver.. Now in mainline kernel...

    Sweet...

  35. Kernels from corn? by VampireByte · · Score: 1

    You must have eaten some free (as in freedom, not free as in beer) corn.

    --

    Run and catch, run and catch, the lamb is caught in the blackberry patch.

  36. Support for filesystem freeze by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now, this feature is the one M$ has had for ages. About time it filesystem freezes were implemented in the Linux Kernel!

  37. those who don't know plan 9 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    reimplement it, poorly.

  38. US+Canada dominate the anglophone world by tepples · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Most people" don't live in the US.

    Most people living in English-speaking industrialized countries live in the United States. Add up the population of the United Kingdom, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, and the two-thirds of Canada that isn't Quebec, and you still have less than half the U.S. population. (This might change somewhat once India industrializes further.) Besides, Canada uses US Letter paper too. So if you publish one edition of a desktop environment for the English language, and not separate editions for North America and the Commonwealth, it might be fair to default to North American settings.

    1. Re:US+Canada dominate the anglophone world by spudgun · · Score: 1

      Windows has Regional settings, where you set your timezone and country which affects date settings (31/02/09 is a valid date in the rest of the world) and spelling (colour vs color) so why doesn't doesn't it look there and then decide the default paper size ?

      just lazy......

      --
      Type unto others as you would have them type unto you.
  39. Yes, but does it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    run Windows?

  40. troll much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Scroll down to the 'Drivers' section of the kernel newbies page. Tons of audio drivers, tv card drivers, and other stuff, as well as wifi drivers....

  41. Mod parent -n offtpopic on thread... by rts008 · · Score: 1

    Back off, dude!

    If this was a discussion on say, 'Linux on the Desktop', or '*nix-the New Distro',your comment would be cogent, insightful, and on topic. But the discussion has nothing to do with that topic, so your reply is just a troll.

    Hint: We were discussing the release of the 2.6.29 Linux Kernal, not another release of a Linux distro. Get some perspective.
    How many "normal computer users" would care, much less know what this means?

    Those of us that do know what this means are excited...this is just "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters'...this has nothing to do with your "normal computer users" you are babbling about, this time.

    Save your vitriol for the appropriate discussion to avoid looking like a n00b/troll/flamebait maroon.

    Gahh! I've fallen to feeding confused trolls! *shoots self in face with BFG 9000*

    --
    Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti