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Microsoft Leaks Windows 7 RC Date — Before May 5
CWmike writes "Microsoft will deliver a release candidate of Windows 7 in about two weeks, the company's Web site revealed Saturday. According to a page posted on Microsoft's partner program site, Windows 7 Release Candidate (RC) may be available to paying subscribers to Microsoft's developer and IT services before May 5. Partners will be allowed to download the release candidate on that date, the first Tuesday of the month. 'Partners: If you have a subscription to MSDN or TechNet, you can download Windows 7 RC now,' the page read Saturday afternoon. 'Otherwise, you can download Windows 7 RC starting May 5, 2009.' The link to the download, however, shunted users to the TechNet download page, which did not list Windows 7 RC as one of the available files. This is the second time in just over three weeks that Microsoft's Web site has leaked information about Windows 7 RC. Accidental, or buzz-builder?"
Lust.
Gluttony.
Greed.
Sloth.
Wrath.
Envy.
Pride.
Developers.
Developers.
Developers.
Developers.
Developers.
Developers.
Developers.
Developers.
Dunno what that is, but I'm not sure there's much point in frustrating potential downloaders. Microsoft hasn't had much success with any OSes released since 2002 so it's probably not wise to dick people around too much. I'm posting this from Ubuntu because Microsoft made it impossible for me to copy files around between USB keys, dvds and hard disks with anything like the speed of XP for reasons they've never explained.
The only reason to run Windows 7 is to know what the non-free software world is doing but you can just watch online videos to find that out. I recently did this and here are my impressions in bullet form:
* Windows 7 is a lot like Vista
* next desktop background feature is kind of cool but i saw it in kde4
* new task bar - makes it easier to switch to mac and more annoying to actually switch tasks using a mouse
* control panel still in the new harder to deal with style but not sure if it still loads piecemeal like Vista
* Libraries are introduced as another way to segment your data in an annoying and OS-locked-in way.
ship date? I don't really understand this... if it's 7 1/2 months from RC to ship, how close to an *actual* release candidate is this release candidate? Perhaps it should be called a beta? ::shrug::
I can understand a couple months for mastering and to ship/distribute/market, etc., but still that leaves 4-5 months to resolve testing on this RC "candiate." I guess the Borg just move really slowly on testing :-/
RC1, two months
RC2, two months
RC3, two months
Delivery, 1.5 months?
http://blogs.technet.com/markrussinovich/archive/2008/02/04/2826167.aspx
XP hid the dialog before the copy was really finished. Vista changed this so you wouldn't pull out a USB key before the operation had finished.
Vista RTM had some copy performance issues but SP1 fixed those, and during Win7 there was a significant focus on improving copy / move / delete performance.
Since when is a press release a "leak"? What, is this British intelligence trying to sex it up a little?
Of course you know, this means war
Todos mis movimientos están friamente calculados
I thought I'd chime in and ask the undying question of whether Microsoft had come to their senses and finally decided to give free upgrades to Windows Se7en for all legit consumer Vista users.
They could really win some good will back from their users if they did this...kinda like the free Zune* firmware updates for the original players...
*No, I am not a Microsoft apologist, Vista user, or Zune owner. I am typing this from my MacBook while taking a break from my PS3. I just think it would be a good idea for MS to do this for its users. It certainly would be more pro-active than their lame laptop commercials.
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
Planning for >1 RC is smart, in that it gives you time to fix bugs, but RCs are supposed to be releasable. 7.5 months seems much more like a beta than an RC. You put out an RC with exactly what you plan to release, and then fix any bugs found. Repeat. Once you have all critical bugs fixed you rename the RC to the release.
Not a sentence!
They know people hate Vista. They know many saw it as the last straw with Windows and switched away from Windows. They know that a lot more are clinging onto XP as if it's their only life raft in a storm. They know that each day that Vista is the current Windows is another day XP users will be tempted to switch away. By holding out the new "Windows which will deliver on all your hopes" just a little longer, that they can stay those hands from making the switch.
The same happened with the Sega Saturm / Sony Playstation. Sega got their console onto the shelves about 1 month before Sony, and console fans were split on whether to wait that little bit longer for the Playstation or buy the Saturn now. Even if the Playstation was delayed a little bit, or out of stock, the carrot was always there, dangling just out of reach but within distance.
By dangling the release in "leaks" which may change later, and making it available to a few, it appears to be very exclusive, which sends another PR message that it's "special". By holding the download window open for a short time, it forces people who want it to act within that window, meaning that it's on their minds during that time. It will translate into a flurry of astorturfing blogs which will no doubt be dugg by fellow astroturfers flaming the fires. All of which sends the message to consumers to just hold on, the cavalry is just around the corner and is on it's way to save you from Vista. All of which conveniently forgets to mention that Vista is just a different regiment under the same flag as the cavalry.
I've been considering using Windows 7 when I buy a new laptop later this year, but I have a serious question:
How the hell do Windows users backup their files?
I haven't used Windows properly since I was a kid, and I didn't care about backups back then. Nowadays I use rsync every day to mirror files onto an external USB drive and over the network. Once a week I do an incremental backup with rdiff-backup.
Are there any basic, robust tools like these for Windows?
Also, what's the new "Power Shell" like? Is it like bash? Can you run curses programs yet, like mutt? Or would I have to learn a GUI like Thunderbird?
I've been on Linux for so long, I'm actually finding it harder than I imagined to see how I can work with Windows again. I tried Vista and it was actually kinda slick, so I wouldn't mind it on my laptop. It seems like a Macbook would be easier though.
Welcome to Redmond, where you have to be a paying member to download a free RC.
Early, or did you miss the 'Otherwise, you can download Windows 7 RC starting May 5, 2009.' in the summary?
Then again - I just tried our MSDN login and, like the article said, there's just the old beta to download.
np: Jared Emerson-Johnson - Attack The Dog (Sam & Max Season One OST (Disc 1))
"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
Guest post by Mary-Jo Enderle
I have seen the future: Windows $NEXT_VERSION Milestone $MOCKUP.
I tried it on a low-end laptop with four Core 2 Duo chips and only 8 gig of memory, and trust me: $NEXT_VERSION is shaping up to be one heck of a product.
WordPad and Paint have seen major overhauls to their user interfaces. Forget the freetards and their "distros" full of all sorts of useless shovelware like "FireFox" and "OpenOffice" and, haha, "GIMP"! -- the bundled software with Windows $NEXT_VERSION is clear, simple, sparse and to-the-point. The much-loved $HATED user interface from Office $HATED_VERSION is now part of WordPad and Paint!
The controversial Digital Rights Management system in Vista has been worked over, with user-downloadable "tilt bits," which you can configure to your own liking. It'll require every user to supply a blood sample for DNA analysis, and the beta nearly took my finger off, but of course that's only if you want to play premium content. The Blu-Ray(tm) of Battlefield Earth was unbelievable on this operating system.
A public beta should be released by the end of this year. There's just no way that Steve "Trains Run On Time" Ballmer will miss the Christmas deadline. The final release should leave the midnight queues on Vista release day -- the street riots, the water cannons, the rubber bullets -- in the shade.
I am so excited about $NEXT_VERSION of Windows. It will go beyond just solving all of the problems with $CURRENT_VERSION, it will be an entirely new paradigm. Forget about security problems, those are all fixed in $NEXT_VERSION. And they're finally ridding themselves of $ANCIENT_LEGACY_STUFF.
Also, there'll be $DATABASE_FILESYSTEM. It'll be awesome!
I wonder how $NEXT_VERSION will compare to $NEXT_NEXT_VERSION.
http://rocknerd.co.uk
.
Look at it this way. Vista has been a disaster for Microsoft. Windows 7 is the hopeful salvation. If Microsoft cannot make Windows 7 work and grab marketshare to the level of Windows XP, Microsoft is in deep doo.
So what is a monopolistic comapny to do? Well, one thing is to try to build what the marketeers call a buzz. Will Microsoft succeed? Or have the computing masses tasted the freedom of OS-X and Linux?
This is just normal marketing - nothing was leaked...
In the end they know perfectly well how to manipulate most slashdotters :-)
Need an ISP in South Africa?
You realize that even if the 2010 release date is true... (which frankly I'd be surprised by given it'd mean they'd miss the Christmas sales season)... it's not unreasonable for a company to give themselves (and OEMs) a bit of lead time. After all... just because Microsoft signs off the software being done on a given date and goes to stamp a huge number of retail DVDs doesn't mean that OEMs who ship Windows on their PCs will have signed off on their customizations to it and are ready to ship at the same time.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
You're thinking of SP2, which will be a free upgrade for Windows Vista SP1 users.
Uhhh... yeah... Redmond the only place that offers its paying premium customers early access to its products and services before the general public.
Let's hope they fix the bug in the Program Compatibility Assistance that installers that don't affect certain registry keys in add/remove to have an error. It basically kills off lots of updaters, plugin installers and PortableApps.com Installers:
http://portableapps.com/node/18540
Portable versions of Firefox, GIMP, LibreOffice, etc
If you have a subscription to MSDN or TechNet, you can download Windows 7 RC now
If you have a "ThePirateBay" subscription, you can download Windows 7 RC now.
did apple ever give free upgrades? judging by the size of OS X updates as well as the wait for 10.5.7 to QA it, it's just as buggy as windows.
Windows 7 should have been Vista SP2. Microsoft simply needed a completely new name because Vista's image has been tarnished beyond repair.
I've never beta tested a large application that was ready by the end of the second RC.
RC in my experience means it's the entire application in a shipping form that's still full of bugs.
Often a beta will be incomplete. It might not include the licenseing system. It might not include an installer. It might not include some sort of updating software. It might not include the documentation yet. But an RC means it's theoretically 'shippable' just buggy. Then they work out the lats of the bugs and make sure all of the support documentation and software doesn't break anything.
The last huge 'platform' software I tested was in RC for about 3 months before going gold. They were still fixing bugs as normal during that phase. (They are still fixing bugs and will probably fix bugs up until and after the next version ships). But the RC1 was a clear break from previous beta builds in that it was a DVD image with everything they intended to ship on the DVD.
To seemed like a perfectly logical and rational process to me.
As far as I'm concerned Windows 7 is ready to ship right now for my needs. I had some missing drivers which were problematic on an old Athlon XP but otherwise have had almost no problems. (Except for HD-DVD playback with PowerDVD).
You know you're doing well when your post is modded "insightful troll".
http://rocknerd.co.uk
The best operating system in 50 years! Released 10 days early! It was supposed to be later but... ...er... that was the great news wasn't it? The news wasn't some shitty microsoft thing, recycled from dos 5 again is it?; with astroturfers and marketing bunnies trying to sell us something oil-burning again, is it? Geez, I hope not!
Ubuntu 9.10 in 5 more days!
Why should Vista owners feel they deserve a free upgrade? Didn't they install SP1? That's their free upgrade.
Why shouldn't they? Microsoft releases products for sale while they are still beta. They are desperate to overcome the stigma of Vista. A simplified face on top of kludgy crap code won't do it though.
Actually yes they did. The first OSX was such a fuming pile of a turd that the first OSX upgrade was free.
But the first OSX made Vista's problems look like first day of school jitters.
I wonder if "RC" in Microsoft terminology means "Remote Controlled" since almost every critical update description has some wording along the lines of "allows a remote user to execute code on your system and control.....". Every "critical" update apart from the WGA which is critical in helping Microsoft shut down functions of any PC the WGA deems is a pirated version of Windows. Come to think of it, this allows a remote party to control your PC too.
Wow, Microsoft is really trying to run away from Vista as quickly as possible. Could they rush this this to market any more quickly? How long has Vista been out, and has there been a major new version of Windows ever released in such a short time frame?
I think in their desperate rush, they are likely to make the same mistakes again. Will MS ever take the effort to rebuild the system properly?
... and then they built the supercollider.
Last I checked, you have to pay to download iPhone Beta 3.0.
But the first OSX made Vista's problems look like first day of school jitters.
As a user of both, I assure you: no it didn't.
Comment of the year
Microsoft has a tiny group of diehard fanboys and that's it?? What planet are you from... Microsoft has thousands of multimillion dollar corporate customers, and a near monopoly on the OS market. Linux has a tiny group of diehard fanboys which are gaining ground, but nothing near the size - nor popularity - of Microsoft.
Watch it buster. You wanna be careful who you set off around here. I suppose you think you're making a point with that remark just because it's true.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Glad to see you're joining the "I'm never installing Windows again" club.
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
My reply somehow got orphaned when the OP got modded into oblivion.
In context it wouldn't need the /sarcasm tags that are now required.
That's what I get for not quoting the parent in my post.
There's an idea for slashdot. Auto Quote. If something is modded 4/5 but the parent isn't visible then it should auto quote if the parent is less than 3 lines.
The difference is that Apple upgrades usually include new features that are worth paying for... Windows 7 is basically Vista without some of the bloat.
It's my question.
Call Orkin.
Bonus ++ 'old fart' points if you remember the TV commercials!![Hint: 'older than dirt']
Oh, 'Get off my lawn!'
and
'Turn that crap down!'
Did I get that right?
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
Ah, I see. Well, redirect my comment at the parent to your post and let them feel the wrath! Muahahahah.
Ubuntu is releasing 9.04 on 23 April, 2009.
May 5th, Bah!!! RC, for something not available to 'the unwashed masses'?
GNU/Linux FTW!!1111!!!
Hint: use sarcasm/tongue-in-cheek filter, YMMV.
*note: Mod's will miss this and I will get modded down to oblivion anyhow*
Heh! Heh! Heh!
You decide: Troll, Flamebait, Offtopic, an experiment, stupid rant, or mindless rambling, or is it a filter for my fan/foe lists?
Push the boundaries past 'Knee-Jerk' reactions. If you did not get this far, you are a part of the problem.
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
My Mac went from OS X 10.0 to 10.1 (and up to 10.1.5) without any cost to me.
I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
With the new regime at MS this last year or so came new advertising/marketing & PR partnerships. Aside from the occasional WTF (Seinfeld?), they've been doing a pretty good job as a whole.
As someone who was in the ad/pr industry for quite a long time I can tell you that:
1. The date has "leaked" reliably pretty much once a week on all the betas to date. Nothing's "leaking". They're disseminating the info virally to build buzz. It works, and that's ok.
2. Win 7 needs as much positive spin as it can get to offset the Vista catastrophe. The february beta was more stable and bug-free than Vista SP1... and to coin a phrase "it's Vista without the suck." They need to get the word out there, to as many folks as possible. For Windows, it's not bad at all, and it's a massive improvement over Vista even if they share 80% of their DNA. Well, aside from the start menu still requiring Vista's 50 clicks to get to the app you want due to the teeny-tiny scrolling programs folder list. I don't like some of the interface Nazi choices that they're making with no user overrides available (start menu, ribbon).
Look, I've tried the public beta back in Feb, and I'm looking forward to putting RC1 on a couple light use 3D workstations. There's nothing inherently wrong with the XP64 that's on 'em, excepting that fewer and fewer 64-bit apps... like say MacDrive... run against XP64 (just Vista.. which is a naggy, broken clusterfuck).
I'm happiest on my primary workstation (which is a Mac) and my laptop (also a Mac), but I've got memory & processor intensive CG apps I run that require Windows 64. Some require Linux 64. Diversity is good. Rendering throughput with Win7 beta (Maya/mental ray) was nearly 10% higher than XP64 and on par with Linux 64's render times... just easier to roll out and configure on a bunch of render slaves with random hardware profiles (ie whatever I've got on hand when I need the horsepower).
Anything that makes Windows suck less is fine by me, and getting a viable 64-bit Win OS in my hands before I'm unable to buy OEM XP64 copies anymore is a priority. Having RC1 not expire until mid 2010 is a bonus. That means I can use it in light production as a render box or secondary workstation now instead of a nuke-every-few-weeks sandbox.
Lunix? Refuse money? In an attempt to win a little "good will"?
HAH!
They're Lunix. They have a tiny group of diehard fanboys, and that's it. Nobody else really likes them, and they really don't need to be liked. As long as their OS and driver support continue to do mediocre, they couldn't care less what their users think of them.
(Try including some actual substance in your argument next time)
OSX 10.0 would freeze up sometimes if you plugged in a USB mouse. Vista has its niggling problems, but nothing like that.
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
Probably a few days after Apple gives away a *point release* of it's OS...
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
Just edit your post.
Now where are those sarcsm tags...
This is sort of off-topic, but I'm wondering if someone can explain the finer points of Technet for me.
The Microsoft website is reasonably specific about what's offered by a Technet subscription and describes the allowed use of the "Evaluation Copies" provided by that subscription, but after sifting through the marketing-speak, I'm still left wondering what, if anything, isn't being said.
For anyone wanting to maintain a home lab of MS software, for example, is it a worthwhile purchase? Or are the evaluation copies crippled in some way that's problematic, with all the evaluation licenses expiring once your Technet subscription expires?
Seems to me that a one-time payment of $600 (possibly split with a friend) may be a better alternative than going the warez route for such things.
Ubuntu 8.10 = $0
Ubuntu 9.04 = $0
Vista Ultimate (remember, Ubuntu is Ultimate++Turbo (new and improved)) = $...
Windows 7.0 = $...
Oh, and don't forget to include the price of office, anti-virus and countless utils that are free under linux and come on the CD/Iso.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Microsoft is still trying to generate interest in something that's essentially a Service Pack for Vista. Let's face it...Win7 still sucks resources like a crack whore who just figured out her daddy's PIN number.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
Just edit your post.
Ha! Now wouldn't that be great!
Oh my... now I'm getting modded into oblivion too. The OP was so trollish it's even spilling over into my post! :D
Why not send it by regular air mail to China and leak it from there? That way they could easily extort the Chinese government saying, "Hey you cracked our system. Obey the Microsoft Laws, you too!". While it would be a bad idea on too many respects, it wouldn't surprise me if they had already done it, somewhere.
Do we have to go through this EVERY TIME?
An operating system is complex. There are millions of lines of code here. An operating system also performs a critical role in the functioning of your computer, thus its stability is a high priority (incoming snarky comment about win95/98/ME).
These things take longer to be sure of than KWobblyWindow 0.0.4 RC.
(And please don't give me that Ubuntu ships a new release every year crap, because we both know the portion of the OS that makes it Ubuntu is less than 5% of the actual codebase. These guys lean heavily on the efforts of the maintainers of the thousands of packages they use in their releases.)
I'm running build 7000 on a desktop a laptop and a netbook and it is rock solid. The netbook has been running for 10 days without a reboot and with no issues. It is running as my wireless server/bridge, I love it no moving parts, and it runs cool. (Dell)
The only thing W7 is missing is the driver for my camera on the desktop, but I admit I really haven't gone looking for one either.
Come on MS lets get the show on the road.
It would be a good idea, but the only announced free upgrade so far is for vista users who buy a new OEM pc after July 1, OEMs will be able to offer a windows 7 upgrade voucher program, similar to the xp -> vista one they did before vista launched.
There will also be paid-for upgrade versions of 7 that allow upgrades from XP or vista (no doubt using the 'installed on harddisk' check pioneered with vista), so the odds of microsoft making them free to download alas seems remote.
Remember kids, it's all fun and games until someone commits wholesale galactic genocide.
Vista never had any DRM of any kind built-in, other than the DRM support in WMP that was in XP.
Certainly nothing at all that affects copy operations in the shell. That notion is absurd (I'm a shell developer, I would know).
It's just a ridiculous myth that gets repeated on Slashdot and nowhere else.
Last I checked you paid only $99 to become an Apple Developer which also gave you the ability to publish and sell your apps on the App Store. You don't have to pay any extra to download the Beta of 3.0.
I still don't see Microsoft doing this, do you?
estimate 1: nt4 (900 days), 2000 (1200 days) and xp (600 days), at around 1000 days of development. windows 7 started around oct 2006. that puts rtm at jun-09. (vista was about 2000 days, but lets overlook that)
estimate 2: xp and vista both had about 2-3 months from rc to rtm. that puts rtm at jul/aug.
There speaks someone who has never used it or is too stupid to figure out what has changed.
I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
One PS about Powershell...
PowerShell is more of a CLI for the NT architecture.
Which means it is the first CLI designed around the object based kernel architecture of NT
...
Some think PowerShell is a 'catch-up' the CLIs on *nix, and there is some truth in this, as to the functionality, but in actual implementation, it is more revolutionary than that as it is a comprehensive CLI that deals with objects instead of textual I/O.
It can pass actual objects and property information as well as work with NT's object functions inherently, instead of just calling basic I/O or applications with textual parameters as the UNIX model works.
You should pay some attention to what the OSS crowd has been doing with the DBUS system combined with Python lately.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Take a look here http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1198841&cid=27622135 and see the moron YOU are, Computershack (Especially after your name calling as that url's parent post).
Take a look here http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1198841&cid=27622135 and see how stupid you are Computershack, especially after your name calling as that url's parent post.
Were you using 10.0 when it came out in early 2001? Or better yet, the beta that led up to that? I did, and I can tell you that both were buggy as hell. OS X wasn't truly usable for a regular person as a desktop OS until 10.1, and even then it was still pretty hit or miss.
If you have the RC in hand, you can start developing your programs to work with it, and feel reasonably confident that there will not be drastic changes that will affect your code. (like ubuntu's code freezes)
What are we going to do tonight Brain?
Look here everyone http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1198841&cid=27622135 & see who the dumbass is here. Especially after Computerhacks' name calling at that url I posted's parent post. Computerhacks' name tossing reply (and errors there) truly made him look like the complete rookie/noob that he is. Computershack, after that blunder of yours in the url above? Computerhack, You've only shown us that you are only another name tossing noob, and one that only looks at the surface of things (but you clearly don't really know what's going on beneath the hood of these operating systems).
I think his post was sarcastic. Slashdot does the same thing (charge for early access).
Say what you will about Microsoft's engineering staff, they do have one hell of a marketing team.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
As a user of both, I assure you: no it didn't.
Yes it did. At release, you simply could not buy hardware that could run OS X 10.0 well. Indeed, this quite arguably remained true all the way through to 10.2.
For all the complaints about Vista's performance, you could still buy a PC more than beefy enough to run it quickly for under a grand US$ even on the day it was released. It took Apple a couple of *years* to a) release hardware fast enough, and b) optimise OS X sufficiently, that it could be considered "fast".
It's just a ridiculous myth that gets repeated on Slashdot and nowhere else.
You are an astroturfer and a dishonest POS. Google for "windows content protection", "tilt bits", WGA and "protected path". All DRM and all in Vista.
Your fake home page/blog is a win7 marketing page. Your entire slashdot posting history is M$ marketing propaganda.
You're a liar. Get a real job and start thinking for yourself for a change.
Funny that the realease text below seems to indicate the installation of Windows 7 causes a home-wide search and destroy of your MP3 booty. What I want to know is what the hell happens if you happen to be connected to the internet as well, does it try to delete every bleeding MP3 it can find?!? :)
File Name: en_windows_7_beta_dvd_x64_x15-29074.iso Date Posted (UTC): 12/30/2008 4:26:48 PM
SHA1: E09FDBC1CB3A92CF6CC872040FDAF65553AB62A5 ISO/CRC: 8E2FAD39
Available to Levels: TechNet Plus SA Media; TechNet Plus (Retail); TechNet Direct (Retail); TechNet Plus (VL); TechNet Plus Direct (VL); TechNet Cert Partner; TechNet Gold Cert
Partner; T1;
Instructions and Resources
Update to Windows 7 Beta (KB961367)
To protect your MP3 files
1. Before you install this Beta release, back up all MP3 files that might be accessed by the computer, including those on removable media or network shares.
2. Install the Beta release of Windows 7; download and install the Update to Windows 7 Beta (KB961367) located on this page.
I think everybody replying to me mis-read what I said.
The grandparent was saying that Vista's problems make OS X 10.0's problems look insignificant by comparison. I was replying, "no, you're wrong" and saying that OS X 10.0 was actually much worse than Vista at launch.
But now I've gotten three responses trying to "convince" me that 10.0 was bad. Hello, I've used both Vista and 10.0. I know it's bad. It was worse than System 7.0.0 (remember that piece of trash?) I agree with you, stop replying. Learn to read.
Comment of the year
I agree with you, stop replying. Learn to read.
I suggest that you learn to read. The original post said "But the first OSX made Vista's problems look like first day of school jitters", which means that the first OS X release was considerably worse than the supposed problems that Vista had when it launched. Your response was "As a user of both, I assure you: no it didn't", which any regular person would interpret as "No, OS X's problems weren't that bad". Nobody here misread what you wrote. It's possible that you misread or misinterpreted the 'first day of school jitters' comment, but the thread as it stands and the responses to your comment as written are perfectly valid.
If you are concerned about security more than anything else, I believe you should go with OpenBSD rather than Linux. I have been using OpenBSD and I am very happy with it.
Looks like Microsoft Management Summit 2009 conference attendees (Apr 27th - May 2nd) might be getting a nice surprise in their swag bags this year.
The download date aligns nicely with the end-of-conference date of May 2nd, with conference attendees likely getting a copy 5-7 days in advance of the download being available to the public!
www.mms-2009.com
> > But the first OSX made Vista's problems look like first day of school jitters.
> As a user of both, I assure you: no it didn't.
That very much depends on exactly which third-party applications you were trying to use in each case.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
I can't believe a Windoze user is actually suggesting that someone type in a command. Windows users can only deal with mouse clicks because they are software jockeys.
They only buttons they know are "Next","I Agree", "Save" and "Cancel".
What do you think this is Linux?
When 10.1 came out in 2001 I walked into MicroCenter and picked it up for free. It was even in a nicely printed 4 color package along with a little booklet illustrating the install process and the new features. Not only did they not make any money with that release but they spent a good chunk of money on packaging it and shipping it out to the stores. I should mention that you only got it for free if you went to a reseller and picked it up. I think they charged $10 for shipping if you wanted it shipped directly to you. Apple knew that 10.0 was unfinished and buggy so they showed some decency by releasing Puma for free. Now we have Microsoft essentially admitting that Vista is flawed and are rushing out 7 to make up for it but they're still going to charge us twice for the privilege of being their beta testers.
Protected Media Path is NOT DRM. And it was included in Windows XP under a different name.
It is a platform service which enables application developers to meet the requirements imposed by certain content protection standards. It is in of itself completely unaware of any DRM schemes or media types.
It is also completely inactive and irrelevant until somebody's code calls the necessary APIs. Enabling PMP features doesn't impact performance, and the PMP code is ONLY run while an application is actively making use of it.
Windows Explorer makes no use of these features. Hell, its features (securing the audio / visual outputs and running decoders in a protected process) are completely inapplicable to the file browser. The only applications included in Windows which make use of it are Media Player and Media Center. And as I already said, even if you are running one of those applications (with media like BluRay which enables these features), there is no perceivable performance impact on your system.
If you really don't like the Protected Media Path services, nothing stops you from using a media player which doesn't make use of the PMP APIs. And the assertion that the presence of this platform service somehow affects file copy performance is proposterous.
You're making it sound like copying a file is as simple as reading from one place and writing to another. In reality, file operations are an incredibly complex problem.
A few points:
1) The shell doesn't just deal with files. It has a very sophisticated set of abstractions to support all manner of data sources. Whether it's WebDAV, SMB, HTTP, FTP, a portable media device, a third-party namespace extension, or a standard filesystem location - the shell has to support transferring data between each. Each can have its own set of requirements around naming, around alternate streams, around metadata support, conflict resolution, ACL / permissions information, error handling and resume support, and so on.
2) Read the link I gave in my earlier post. Windows XP used buffered I/O and also dismissed the copy dialogs before the operation completed. Vista changed this so that the dialog stayed until the operation completed and also disabled the use of buffered I/O. This offered some advantages, but in SP1 we moved back to buffered I/O because of customer feedback (and a lot of work to optimize its usage).
3) Vista does a much better job handling ACLs and maintaining permissions structures across copies and moves. But there's some small overhead introduced in order to accomplish this.
4) Vista introduced a lot of features around the "discovery" process before a copy or move operation begins. This process adds some additional overhead, but enables a better experience in other ways. For example, beginning in Vista the shell can now ask you upfront about conflicts that will occur. This prevents you from starting a large operation, walking away, and returning to find that as soon as you left the room the system asked you a question about one file at the front of the list, leaving all the other non-conflicting files waiting for your response.
In Vista, the shell will check every file for conflicts before it begins copying. And once it does begin copying, most errors it encounters (like a permissions or file-in-use error) will be deferred until every successful item is copied. Then it will prompt you at the END of the process for those which it was unable to handle without your help.
Now, there were some issues with this logic in Vista which caused it to be run unnecessarily (like on same-drive moves) or take more time than it should. SP1 made significant improvements to this, and as I said Windows 7 makes substantial improvements on top of that.
There are other complications I didn't cover here, like the fact that I/O is scheduled to ensure that media playback isn't interrupted and that the system remains responsive during these operations.
If you haven't built such a system, it's easy to oversimplify the problem and make it sound trivial. But that doesn't paint an accurate picture of what's going on. There are very few "simple" problems when dealing with software as complicated as an operating system, especially one with the scale and broad requirements of Windows.
Libraries don't help you segment your data, they help you bring it together from disparate sources. The whole idea is to *remove* the segmentation of your data by providing rich, metadata-based views backed by a fast database where you can search or pivot easily across any properties (including location) without regard for the physical location of the data.
I'm also confused what you mean about "OS-locked-in-way." The OS provides rich APIs for working with Libraries, but the definitions themselves are simple and (soon to be) well-documented XML format. What about that do you believe creates unnecessary "lock in?" What would you propose to make it better?
(Note that I'm a developer on the shell team, and am genuinely interested in how you think we could improve the interoperability story regarding Libraries)
Just use the default view and type what you're looking for into the search box. Isn't that much easier than scanning the classic-view list?
Here we go again.
The Mac OS X "point release" is variable-size. 10.1 was basically a service pack. Every 10.N release after that has been incrementally larger up to 10.5 where we are now. 10.4 and 10.5 were significant upgrades to the OS and at least as big as the step between Windows 95 to Windows 98 and certainly between Mac OS 8 and Mac OS 9. 10.5 is only similar to 10.1 in that it's a point increment larger than the preceding version.
It's a stylistic choice -- one which I think is stupid and not styli*sh*, but which is nevertheless stylist*ic* -- to keep the "10" meaning "X" in Mac OS X. They also put out more traditional point releases; they are named 10.N.M and are free. So yes, Apple does give out point releases; they do so frequently.
No, they are so evil that they give away Visual Studio Express for free, and to top off their rudeness, anyone anywhere can distribute a Windows mobile app in any manner they see fit. You don't even have to jailbreak your Windows mobile phone. Those evil, evil bastards!
Over at http://www.retailmenot.com/view/technet.com they have discount coupon codes for technet subscriptions. I ended up paying $249(USD) for a 1 year of download only subscriptions. Make sure they you get the letter O vs the number 0 correct in the coupon code. Having posted that, despite others saying it is available, it is not showing up in my non-premium technet subscription. YMMV.
My facts are 100% accurate. I should know, I work on the damn thing.
If you have something worthwhile to contribute then post it and stop trolling.
DRM has absolutely nothing to do with any performance issues you might see on Windows Vista.
When you copy a file in the shell there is absolutely, positively, ZERO code related to DRM that is executed. None. Zilch.
What would its purpose be? What would it accomplish? Can you provide an example of its effect? Of course not, because it doesn't exist. I work on the shell, I've seen all of that code. There's no secret DRM check. You can copy HD content via the shell til your heart's content and no DRM code will ever be executed. No messages will ever appear telling you to stop. Hell that's not even how DRM works. DRM schemes don't care how many times you copy the file, they just care whether your device is licensed at playback time. That's what WMP checks if you play DRM'd content. And if you play content in WMP that isn't DRM'd, then there's nothing to check. If you hate DRM, don't buy any DRM'd content, and there will be no reason for any DRM-related code to ever run on your machine.
You're just making yourself look foolish by repeating these baseless accusations. It's clear you don't actually *use* Windows or know anything about software, otherwise you'd know how ridiculous your claims sound.
http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1198841&cid=27622135 There, you can see how "expert" (far from it) this complete noob Computershack is, as he screws up on how Windows networking really functions (and beneath the surface, which is about all this noob Computershack knows these systems at) as regards port filtering, which he also shot his big mouth off about there using his usual profanity and having to eat his words for it there.
http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1198841&cid=27622135 as usual, Computershack shot his mouth off calling others names (in the post parent to that url posted), and ended up having to eat his own words (which only came from his cursory examination of the surface of things in Windows Vista at most), because he wasn't aware of the differences between older models of Windows, and how they used a 3 part system for tcpip filtering security versus the new single part Vista model of WFP. You're another name tossing noob that thinks he knows what he is about in this science, but, shows clearly in the url above that you do not, Computershack.
It more then a style choice, it's a reflection of the customer base and support model.
Windows does corporate support which forces there to be a large number of fixes are done for individual customers or given out only if you a specific problem (to minimize risk to the general population and lower testing costs). This prevents a single release wide number that could be incremented. The service pack release collapses all these combinatorial configuration possibilities back into a single point and sometimes adds back ports of features in later OS releases.
Apple on the other hand doesn't really do corporate support, so they can go with the simpler model of keeping everyone on the same linear update branch.
np: Jared Emerson-Johnson - Attack The Dog (Sam & Max Season One OST (Disc 1))
Wow, slashdot reaches a new low.
That paper was a joke. It was entirely made-up. It was thoroughly debunked YEARS ago and you're referencing it here? In 2009? Give me a break.
None of the baseless predictions made there turned out to be correct. It was an utter load of crap.
You crack me up, little buddy.
np: Yello - Squeeze Please (Motion Picture)
"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
I'm impressed. That said: tl;dr
Just kidding. I'll always read your posts. Others here won't. If they're Too Long; they Don't Read them. If your goal is advocacy you have to hit the point in 200 words or less. Our goal may be different here.
Here is a question for you; lets say were the Senior VP of development at Linux-Z, the hot new Linux startup that is going to enable OEMs to sell Linux systems by the train load - what would you do given the following constraints?
You're not going to like this answer. The only way to win this game is not to play.
About your assumptions: while I have some problems with how Microsoft sucks up to content owners in order to get a platform that plays their content I am not as incensed as the average /.'er because I know the problem will soon be moot. DRM is completely history in the audio field and about to go there in video. To go back to your "what would you do" question, I'd offer the MPEG group and the DVD forum $* for an eternal fully paid up non-reversible distributable license to their formats, encryption, patents and yadda yadda publicly. And then when they refused I'd publicly wash my hands of them. I think I'd buy a minute at the superbowl to say: "you see? I tried. But they wouldn't see reason." Physical media is about done anyway. Implicit in this is that I have a good repository system and have implemented APT URL. I post a warning about local liability and endorse a trusted third party repository located in a more reasonable jurisdiction. And I throw my lobbyist money in the opposite direction from eternal protection of Steamboat Willy to reasonable time limits and protection of the commons from clawbacks. After all, 17 years from first publication is long enough copyright protection for me. Nobody wants to infringe the copyrights of 17 year old software, and if they did, good on them. My programmers are hard at work implementing back issues of The Communications of the ACM and they're still not up to 1992 yet. If people copy them that means my engineers were forward thinking back then and that improves my fame long past the marketability of their output. I become the Hero of the People instead of the Goat.
Must work with cable card (my wife wants her NFL channel)
You must take care with the term "wifey". GIS with safesearch turned off for why, but not from work. This symbol is now definitely attached to something you probably would not prefer to be publicly associated with. Cablecard is a different issue, but my approach would be the same: air your dirty linen in public. Approach the cable providers and publicly offer them money for open drivers and when they decline back away waving your hands clearly saying "well, I tried. It's not my fault they wouldn't see reason." Whether you believe it or not the people you're negotiating with here perceive your willingness to accommodate them as a weakness in your position. They could not be more wrong.
Now about DRM: The problem with DRM is control. Control is the point of DRM. Content owners feel that in order to surrender their precious content they need the assurance of control of every device it plays on. They need the control to rescind permission any time they like if they're not sure the content is licensed. They need the control to license the media per play, per day, per customer or per speaker or what-the-hell-ever their cocaine-induced paranoia motivates them that day. They most especially need the media to expire periodically with content providers and encryption standards like Plays-For-Now so that they can keep selling the same listener the White Album for the 16th time because they know their more current product is utter crap on the level of "Glitter" and "Waterworld". Their desire for control includes the desire to monitor the use of media you've bought, other activities that occur on your computer, and they would like to leave tha
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Y'know, I think I do agree with you about a lot.
Consumers by and large (e.g. when looked at in the aggregate of 100s of millions) just want a system that works, e.g. they unboxed it, and it plays BlueRay (today), and streams the content they want to day and tomorrow. A Linux vendor or OEM could ignore this, but then they would be at a HUGE competitive disadvantage compared to Windows or another distribution that did support it.
Consumers want choice, and they're not stupid. If they want to watch a DVD they can buy a player with LCD display that runs on batteries and plays the hollywood stuff for $79. For $30, they can get one that looks lovely on their 40" LCD at home. They don't need that on their PC. Video for the computer is all about playing YouTube and Hulu and stuff you've archived to your home NAS box so the kids won't get peanut butter on the discs and you can watch it on any device that's free, including your iPod Touch. BluRay? I really don't think that's a winner. Time will tell. Sony has a tendency to screw up their execution on proprietary media. HD is just now hitting its stride, and nobody's implementing the SD card kiosk yet. Out here in the wild DRM'd content is a scant fraction.
Whatever Hollywood and Microsoft does, I'm not running the Hollywood DRM stack on my computer. It's not gonna happen. I just don't want the content that badly.
If you want to play a restricted DVD on your computer you can boot Linux Mint and have at it if you can't be bothered to click those other links I pointed out earlier. Soon, as you probably know, the computer will be evolved enough at low enough power to be embedded in the TV. When that happens, it'll be Linux and Java for the win.
I'm rambling. XP in a VM is a good way simultaneously break legacy support, which is desperately needed, while simultaneously mollifying the installed base of customers who just can't function without some legacy apps. Software vendors who were relying on Microsoft to drive sales to a new level are going to squawk, but it had to be done. I suggested it here three years ago and people called me crazy.
In short, you are playing the wrong game. You brought a badminton racket to an America football game.
Y'know, I could be wrong about all this stuff... or not. We'll see. Obviously we agree the field is not level, we just disagree about the direction of the slope.
... This and similar assumptions are just bogus.
I've commented about specific things I think are broken about Windows. I don't think any software is perfect. I do adamantly believe that there are some practices that are not best practices. Microsoft is not alone in employing some of these practices. Microsoft is alone in that their platform supports a malware ecosystem that's a $100B a year industry. That's not something to be proud of. We could go on and on about whether MSFT is evil. It's a corporation. It doesn't have feelings. I don't like the contents of the Halloween documents, or what they did to Sendo, or how they backchanneled the funding for SCO, to name a few things. The subversion of the ISO to put over the OpenDocument format destroyed what was once a credible and necessary body dedicated to adopting standards so that people the world over can work together. These behaviors continue to the present day and extend into the future and they have caused harm. So no, I'm not ever going to be fond of this corporation. But they could more clearly adhere to best practice, at least in the default. They could make it so that their software is reasonably performant on low power hardware, which indicates thoughtful deliberate design. They could do more in the field of security to prevent the spambots that flood my inbox and share my personal info around the world. If they did that I'd stop calling their products "crap" and we could move on to comparing the relative merits of sol
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Thanks.
Help stamp out iliturcy.