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Biotech Company To Patent Pigs

Anonymous Swine writes "Monsanto, a US based multinational biotech company, is causing a stir by its plan to patent pig-breeding techniques including the claim on animals born by the techniques. 'Agricultural experts are scrambling to assess how these patents might affect the market, while consumer activists warn that if the company is granted pig-related patents, on top of its tight rein on key feed and food crops, its control over agriculture could be unprecedented. "We're afraid that Monsanto and other big companies are getting control of the world's genetic resources," said Christoph Then, a patent expert with Greenpeace in Germany. The patent applications, filed with the World Intellectual Property Organization, are broad in scope, and are expected to take several years and numerous rewrites before approval.'"

56 of 285 comments (clear)

  1. patented bacon by mcfatboy93 · · Score: 4, Funny

    It better taste good

    --
    Its not my fault, someone put a wall in my way.
    1. Re:patented bacon by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Could we ask them to develop a pig with an uncloven hoof? It would be interesting to see kosher bacon on the shelf.

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    2. Re:patented bacon by tomhudson · · Score: 4, Informative

      Could we ask them to develop a pig with an uncloven hoof? It would be interesting to see kosher bacon on the shelf.

      It's already available. The text literally translates as "cloven hoof that trods the ground", so they raise pigs on slightly elevated wood floors - their hooves never touch the ground, so they're kosher.

      Cue all the "a priest and a rabbi" jokes ...

    3. Re:patented bacon by theskunkmonkey · · Score: 4, Funny

      A priest, a rabbi, and a terrorist walk into a bar.

      BOOM!

      What? You were expecting a joke?

    4. Re:patented bacon by clarkkent09 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sure why not. A crazy solution to a crazy problem

      --
      Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
    5. Re:patented bacon by BobisOnlyBob · · Score: 5, Funny

      Okay.

      A Priest, a Rabbi, and a Shaman all walk into a bar, only there's no Rabbi and no Shaman, and it's my eighth birthday party, and the Priest is molesting me.

      And the priest is my Dad and he's not really a priest.

    6. Re:patented bacon by pmarini · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I can clearly see then next step here: IVF babies anyone?

      --
      Can I put a spell on those who can't spell?
      Your wheels are loose and they're losing their grip, good you're there.
    7. Re:patented bacon by moeinvt · · Score: 4, Funny

      A priest and a rabbi are walking down the street and they see some little kids playing frisbee in a park.

      The priest says "Hey, let's go screw those little kids."
      The rabbi says "Out of what, the frisbee?"

      (You did say "ALL")

  2. Monsanto's motto... by yoder · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Do only evil."

    So far they're on track.

    --
    "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act!" -- George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair)
    1. Re:Monsanto's motto... by Hatta · · Score: 4, Funny

      They patented prostitution?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    2. Re:Monsanto's motto... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      No, it went like this:

      1. Invent sex
      2. Invent money
      3. start charging for 1
      4. Profit.

      Yes, they figured out ????

    3. Re:Monsanto's motto... by Smoke2Joints · · Score: 2, Funny

      sorry, i patented death around 6000BC and have held it ever since. the pending patent infringement lawsuit and subsequent damages award will be newsworthy, let me tell you..

    4. Re:Monsanto's motto... by tsa · · Score: 4, Funny

      You mean 4000 BC. The Earth is only 6000 years old.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    5. Re:Monsanto's motto... by laughingcoyote · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Do only evil

      Seriously? Creating new sources of food is evil? Patents last for a few years or a couple decades (at most). New sources of food will continue to pay dividends for generations.

      Since exactly when are pigs a new source of food? I seem to remember enjoying bacon my entire life.

      If they can come up with a genuinely new source of food, rather than retreading an old one and trying to claim they own it, I might say there's a case to be made.

      --
      To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
    6. Re:Monsanto's motto... by tsa · · Score: 2, Funny

      But that means he patented death even before God thought of it. And that means he existed even before God created Adam. The ways of the Lord are surely incomprehensible.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    7. Re:Monsanto's motto... by EonBlueTooL · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Do only evil

      Seriously? Creating new sources of food is evil? Patents last for a few years or a couple decades (at most). New sources of food will continue to pay dividends for generations.

      A small taste of monsanto's evilness.

      http://www.hulu.com/watch/67878/the-future-of-food

      They are not just trying to create new food sources, they are trying to become the ONLY food source.
      They are playing god, and they lack any conscience.

      Monstanto developed a seed that makes the plant infertile. That can cross contaminate other plants. The goal of this seed? To make it so farmers cannot use seed from the previous harvest and they have to buy more seeds.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto#.22Terminator.22_seed_controversy
      Monsanto is quite possibly the most evil company on the planet.

    8. Re:Monsanto's motto... by moeinvt · · Score: 4, Informative

      "taste" of monsanto's evilness? LOL

      How about injecting dairy cows with chemical crap to maximize production, at the expense of the animal's health and resulting in milk that belongs in a "bio-hazard" container as opposed to a milk jug?

      See "The Corporation": http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0379225

      Not to mention Monsanto using their muscle to prevent investigative journalists from actually reporting on the story. This company gives me the creeps.

    9. Re:Monsanto's motto... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Unfortunately in the real world the creator of the crop killing plant sues the victim.

    10. Re:Monsanto's motto... by Abcd1234 · · Score: 4, Informative

      How about injecting dairy cows with chemical crap to maximize production, at the expense of the animal's health and resulting in milk that belongs in a "bio-hazard" container as opposed to a milk jug?

      Meh, for that you can blame the US government. Neither, Canada, nor a good part of Europe, have approved those synthetic hormones you speak of for use in milk production. Pity your "regulators" don't actually regulate anything...

  3. this is getting way out of hand by wstrucke · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think i'm going to invent a pair of scissors and extend the patent to cover anything you cut with them.

  4. pig breeding? by larry+bagina · · Score: 4, Funny

    I was going to suggest some prior art, but I realized that cowboy neal has never been laid.

    --
    Do you even lift?

    These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

  5. Time machine also patented by sir_eccles · · Score: 5, Informative

    Did anyone else notice the 2005 date on the press release?

    As far as I can tell, no patents have been granted from WO2004/003697 which seems to be the most likely application in question.

    1. Re:Time machine also patented by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      And Monsanto sold the swine business in 2007. http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stories/2007/09/24/daily40.html

    2. Re:Time machine also patented by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem being that even if they are granted a narrow patent, it gives them an excuse to sue pig breeders not actually doing things in that narrow range. How many farmers and farming companies have the money to withstand a baseless patent lawsuit by Monsanto? Monsanto probably has its own in-house lawyer-breeding program; they're such fucking assholes.

  6. patents and insanity by phantomfive · · Score: 2, Interesting
    In general, I am opposed to patents because I feel they stifle innovation, and especially software patents for the more selfish reason that it keeps me from doing things that I want. However, this guy:

    "We're afraid that Monsanto and other big companies are getting control of the world's genetic resources," said Christoph Then, a patent expert with Greenpeace in Germany.

    Isn't Greenpeace against GMO? Why do they care then? It's not like Monsanto suddenly owns all pigs ever born.....they can still keep using normal, everyday, unmodified pigs like they do now. In fact, they should be HAPPY, because Monsanto's patent protection will prevent other people from researching and developing GMO pigs based on these techniques. It gives me the feeling that Greenpeace just wants to protest anything. Kind of reminds me of the tea-party protesters, who mostly seemed like they were out there to have fun in the name of a protest.

    --
    Qxe4
    1. Re:patents and insanity by tomhudson · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem with GMO crops, and more importantly, for anti-GMO people, is that they are simply better for the farmer. They can produce more for less work. Even when you take the licensing costs into account, it is more economical overall. Presumably, the anti-GMO people are against this push into new markets because it will do the same for pig farmers as it did for crop farmers. And that'll make it harder for anti-GMO people to continue their "organic" lifestyle.

      ... because mono-cultures are SO much better than diversity ...

      ... because they'll never abuse their monopoly license ...

      ... because it's easy to keep GMOs from contaminating non-GMOs (crops/animals) ...

      ... because selective breeding is such a radical and new idea ...

      ... because they'll never take a naturally-occurring species and slip a patent on it ...

      After all, what could possibly go wrong?

    2. Re:patents and insanity by QuantumG · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ... because mono-cultures are SO much better than diversity ...

      To the farmer they are, yes, because automating the tending of a crop that is all identical is much easier. If they could economically clone cattle and ensure they grow uniformly, they would because it would mean the slaughter floor could be completely automated.

      ... because they'll never abuse their monopoly license ...

      They do indeed abuse their monopoly license.. but that is a measurable cost and it is in the monopolists interest to keep that cost at a level that their customer is willing to pay. So it really boils down to the choice: do you want to make less money just to spite the monopoly. Some people do, most people don't.

      Dell sells computers with Windows preinstalled on it because they can make more money than selling computers without it preinstalled. My argument was that farmers find Monsanto's crops better. Not that it was what was best for the consumer.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    3. Re:patents and insanity by Keith+Duhaime · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Most of the anti-GMO crowd is pretty simple in their thinking. They'll rave about organic crops that rely heavily on tillage techniques which promote oxidation of soil organic matter, breakdown of soil structure, and other adverse effects, but condemn GMOs like Round-Up Ready crops that enable zero-tillage systems that preserve soil organic matter, moisture, and structure.

    4. Re:patents and insanity by Golddess · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ... because mono-cultures are SO much better than diversity ...

      To the farmer they are, yes, because automating the tending of a crop that is all identical is much easier.

      At least until this happens and then we have no more of whatever that crop was.

      --
      "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
    5. Re:patents and insanity by FroBugg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ... because mono-cultures are SO much better than diversity ...

      To the farmer they are, yes, because automating the tending of a crop that is all identical is much easier. If they could economically clone cattle and ensure they grow uniformly, they would because it would mean the slaughter floor could be completely automated.

      Until a disease slips through and wipes out the entire crop/herd in a single blow. Heck, non-GMO monoculture crops are a bad enough idea already. They do a horrible job of utilizing and restoring soil nutrients, requiring more and more fertilizers and support.

      It's expensive and unsustainable.

    6. Re:patents and insanity by conlaw · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's not like Monsanto suddenly owns all pigs ever born.....they can still keep using normal, everyday, unmodified pigs like they do now.

      Yeah, right...if one of the Monsanto boars gets loose, all the pig farmers in the area will get sued on the theory that the Monsanto pig impregnated all of their sows and they now owe Monsanto royalties on all the progeny. Just look at their history of suing farmers whose crops were contaminated by pollen from nearby Monsanto-licensed fields of the same crops. For the full saga of one such case which the farmer had to take all the way to the Canadian Supreme Court, see http://www.percyschmeiser.com/conflict.htm. Mr. Schmeiser's fight, along with Monsanto's other dirty tactics, is also covered in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto

    7. Re:patents and insanity by twostix · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Farmers sprayed arsenic on their crops and fed their cows mashed up cow, pig and chicken carcasses to make them 5% more productive.

      So probably best not to put *to* much stock in what "farmers" (huge agri-corps run by paid employees - old school farmers are thin and few in between these days) think is best, because it might just wind up killing you.

    8. Re:patents and insanity by ChromeAeonium · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ... because mono-cultures are SO much better than diversity ...

      No one said that. You did.

      ... because they'll never abuse their monopoly license ...

      The RIAA does all the time. Does that reflect upon the artistic merit of a band? Monsanto abuses patents, what does that have to do with anything besides act as a red herring?

      ... because it's easy to keep GMOs from contaminating non-GMOs (crops/animals) ...

      Not yet. That's the beauty of it, there's no reason why something can't be avoided. There are still bugs to work out, yes, and those present unique issues, but has there ever been a technology that was absolutely perfected from the get-go?

      ... because selective breeding is such a radical and new idea ...

      And it may soon be archaic. We can do a lot more a lot faster. The horse and buggy wasn't bad, but the car was better. Of course, working better never stopped clueless luddites from bitching.

      ... because they'll never take a naturally-occurring species and slip a patent on it ...

      Red herring. This has nothing to do with GMOs.

      After all, what could possibly go wrong?

      With what? Fire? Arson. Chemistry? Explosives. Computer networks? Cybercrime.

      Perhaps you don't get this, but everything is what it is because of genetics. A Red Delicious apple is sweeter than a wild apple for one reason alone: genetics. You control that and we could massively increase what land is usable for farmland and can cut back on a shitload of resources. What could possibly go wrong if we use GMOs? Not as much as what could go wrong if we don't.

    9. Re:patents and insanity by TheDugong · · Score: 3, Funny

      True, the pen is mightier than the pork sword.

    10. Re:patents and insanity by Achromatic1978 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Interesting. The article claims no such thing. In fact, the article only mentions Greenpeace once, saying that "organizations such as Greenpeace warn that GM crops threaten biodiversity and might make subsistence farmers more dependent". Nice claims of 'willing to let people starve to death', though.

    11. Re:patents and insanity by dryeo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Perhaps you don't get this, but everything is what it is because of genetics. A Red Delicious apple is sweeter than a wild apple for one reason alone: genetics. You control that and we could massively increase what land is usable for farmland and can cut back on a shitload of resources. What could possibly go wrong if we use GMOs? Not as much as what could go wrong if we don't.

      I'm glad that you picked Red Delicious apples as an example as it shows all that is wrong with todays commercial farming industry.
      I was going to go by my experience but figured maybe you'd like some citations.
      So from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Delicious

      As the cultivar was optimized for color and durability for major supermarket chains, taste and texture were sacrificed, and consumers began to reject the Red Delicious.[1]

      ...

      In the 1980s Red Delicious represented three-quarters of the harvest in Washington state. In the 1990s reliance on Red Delicious pushed Washington state's apple industry to the edge of bankruptcy.[2] In 2000 Congress approved and President Bill Clinton signed a bill that bailed out the apple industry, after apple growers had lost $760 million since 1997.[1] By 2000, this cultivar made up less than one half of the Washington state output, and in 2003, the crop had shrunk to 37 percent of the state's harvest, which totaled 103 million boxes. Red Delicious still remains the single largest cultivar produced in the state, but others are growing in popularity, notably Fuji apples and Gala apples.[2]

      So the apple farming industry was close to bankrupted due to choosing genes that were good for shipping and looking nice. This is the danger of GMO's especially with large corporate farming.
      Note that here in BC where most orchids are owned by individual farmers red delicious never were that big of a deal. They are handy for cross pollinating (apples should have a couple of strains for pollination purposes) and the fact that they are later then the rest allows the harvest to be spread out. But still they taste like wood.
      The worst is that the BC orchiders are now going out of business as they can't compete with an industry that gets bailed out of its bad decisions.
      Also you should note that most all cultivators of apples were just wild apples that had good qualities and so were cloned.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    12. Re:patents and insanity by dryeo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So what you are saying is that it is better if the soil is only anaerobic? Perhaps like the neighborhood swamp that takes forever to break down organic matter to a point that other organisms can use it as well as pumping out lots of methane.
      I can always tell when people are echoing talking points when they use a brand name instead of the proper name, glyphosate in this case.
      Personally what I see happen when over treating crops with glyphosate is that glyphosate resistant plants flourish, partially due to the fact that the resistant plants such as horse tails can handle the anaerobic conditions that come about from having a hard compact soil.
      Also note that glyphosate, especially when sold by Monsanto is fucking expensive.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  7. Genetic Patents by deemen · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Someone has to stop these stupid genetic patents. Patents and copyrights are both way out of hand these days. Software patents, now this. I've heard of companies attempting to patent viruses and such (the kind they use to get DNA into other organisms), but a pig? I think patent law has a clause saying you can't patent a living organism (when did genes become "inventions"?). Recently though, big pharma and biotech companies like Monsanto has been lobbying to let this shit happen.

    There was a movie that touched on this The Corporation. It's a Canadian movie and I think Monsanto is mentioned in there more than once.

    I sincerely don't know how these companies get away with it. Giving them the same rights as people legally was a bad idea. Don't the people working at Monsanto realize how twisted this shit is?

  8. Unprecedented control by dkleinsc · · Score: 5, Informative

    FTFS: "its control over agriculture could be unprecedented"

    It already is. It holds 70-100% of the genetically modified seed market, and is the largest producer of non-GMO seed, not to mention a major player in Bovine Growth Hormone (BGH) and of course pesticides and herbicides.

    That's not including the lawsuits against farmers who's plants are fertilized by Monsanto crop due to airborne pollen.

    In short, the vast majority of industrial farmers in the Corn Belt rely heavily on Monsanto, and those that don't are sued by Monsanto.

    --
    I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    1. Re:Unprecedented control by SuperCharlie · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I recently ran into a few documentaries and articles about Monsanto and was completely amazed at the depth and scope of the unadulterated greed and potential for catastrophic issues that stem from their genetic manipulation of nature.

      Even that pales in comparison to the back door government dealings that have landed multitudes of Monsanto employees and board members squarely in government position that control the very laws they are petitioning for. Do a simple google search, the numbers are astounding to the point of obscenity.

    2. Re:Unprecedented control by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Informative

      It already is. It holds 70-100% of the genetically modified seed market, and is the largest producer of non-GMO seed, not to mention a major player in Bovine Growth Hormone (BGH) and of course pesticides and herbicides.

      And if they get their way, soon enough that will be 100% of the crops you eat; produced from GMO seed with the "terminator" gene, fertilized with a synthetic fertilizer, and inundated with synthetic pesticides which destroy soil diversity and in fact make it impossible to grow healthy food.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:Unprecedented control by Achromatic1978 · · Score: 3, Informative
      On Terminator genes:

      You mean that thing they currently have no plans to bring to the market? I gotta hand it to Monsanto. Genes might spread, so they're evil. They develop terminator genes to prevent accidental genetic spread, so they're evil. They're damned either way, aren't they?

      That thing that they pledged in 99 to never pursue, and then went ahead and bought a company in 2007 whose sole marketable product was that very thing, yeah, that.

      Nice handy side effect of the terminator genes "helping" accidental genetic spread - means your farmer now has to buy orders of magnitude more seed. From you. (Realize that in many staple crops, Monsanto supplies between 70% and 100% of the commercially available seed). I think it's far more likely that "helping accidental genetic spread" is a side effect of "developing revenue maximization genetic technologies".

    4. Re:Unprecedented control by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Informative

      And, why is that bad? Oh, GMOs weigh more than a duck and are therefore bad, right? Newsflash: All food you eat has been selected for certain traits.

      I've discussed this subject exhaustively with people smarter than you, so here goes: While it is true that nature is capable of transferring genes from one organism to another even across Kingdoms with retroviruses, in practice this almost never happens and when it does, the resulting organism doesn't get cloned out hundreds of times and planted in a monoculture, and protected. While in theory humans can work "faster" than nature (to produce a specific result) the results are unpredictable.

      However, the market is speaking and deciding it wants organic products, and H.R. 875 is essentially an attempt to shut down that market through legislation, nothing less than an assault on small-scale food production in America.

      with the "terminator" gene,

      You mean that thing they currently have no plans to bring to the market?

      That is probably the dumbest thing I've seen on slashdot all day.

      Unnatural=unhealthy? Citation needed.

      This is not a secret. It's well-known that organic foods generally have greater nutritive value. One of the best fertilizers is human waste, which is perfectly safe so long as it's been "digested" by bacteria before you fertilize with it. Instead, we send it to a sewage "treatment" plant where it is rendered biologically "safe" and then we usually dump it into a river... downstream from which we pump water out of the river into a water "treatment" plant where it is rendered biologically "safe to drink" (a matter of some debate, but arguably true.)

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  9. A history of evil by Reason58 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    God help you if one of their seeds blows onto your property and one of their pigs eat it.

  10. Re:STFU Enviro-nazi's by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Best" is relative here. Having a single company control agricultural output in the way that Monsanto does, free markets or no, is a damned dangerous thing. This is about the core structural support of civilization. Fuck with the food supply, and bad things can happen.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  11. Best line in the article by cortesoft · · Score: 4, Funny

    The practices Monsanto wants to patent basically involve identifying genes that result in desirable traits in swine, breeding animals to achieve those traits and using a specialized device to inseminate sows deeply in a way that uses less sperm than is typically required.

    Umm I think nature invented that device a long time ago....

  12. Monsanto is dangerous by meist3r · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Needs to be stopped, burned and sealed away.

  13. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  14. not that i necessarily believe monsanto, but... by gadabyte · · Score: 4, Informative

    from http://www.monsanto.com/monsanto_today/for_the_record/pig_patent.asp

    In 2007, Monsanto sold Monsanto Choice Genetics to Newsham Genetics LC of West Des Moines, Iowa. The transaction was completed in November 2007, and Monsanto is no longer in the swine breeding business.

    Since a Greenpeace publicity announcement in 2005, rumors have continued to circulate among activists and on the internet that Monsanto is trying to patent pig genes. When Monsanto owned the business, the company performed research work for a patent application related to a specific gene marker for a pig trait, but not for the trait itself, and also a patent application for a unique set of breeding processes, including an artificial insemination method. Monsanto never filed a patent application for a pig gene.

    Thereâ(TM)s been some rather wild speculation that these patent applications would prohibit pig farmers from breeding lines of pigs to which they had always freely bred. This isnâ(TM)t true. Any claims issued from these patent applications would apply to only animals and their offspring which had been bred using marker technology covered by patent claims.

    In any case, the sale to Newsham Genetics included any and all swine-related patents, patent applications, and all other intellectual property. Weâ(TM)re out of the pig business.

    --
    the united states is a nation of laws; badly written and randomly enforced -- frank zappa
  15. The Next Move by DynaSoar · · Score: 4, Informative

    Monsanto patented some corn strains. The patent covered any corn found to have their patented genome. They planted it, it grew and pollinated. The pollen drifted into nearby fields and pollinated the crops there. Monsanto got some of the resulting corn, tested it, found their genome, and sued the farmers for theft of intellectual property. I don't know if they finally won or not, but at the time they prevented the farmers from farming until it was resolved causing loss of income, as well as proving themselves to be willing to use the high cost of defending one's self in order to keep from losing. And that was in the US, just prior to them releasing the same strains in third world countries. The strain they distributed had the trait of not producing viable seed. They wanted all the farmers to have to buy seed every year rather than grow their own, and they feared cross pollination would produce a viable strain overriding the nonviability genes.

    --
    "I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
  16. Re:Patents run out in 20 years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Monsanto is an evil, evil company. One needs only to scratch the surface of a google search on the company to come to this conclusion.

    The way they have perverted the natural process of pollination - a process by which nobody has any real control - and turned it into a way to force farmers out of business and create a monopoly market is nothing short of evil.

    The way they force third world countries to continue buying their products by selling them plants which create infertile seeds, rather than allowing these nations to provide for themselves and actually have a chance of pulling themselves out of third-world status, is nothing short of evil.

    This has nothing to do with anti-corporate people. It has everything to do with anti-Monsanto people. Forget Microsoft, Apple, Verizon, AT&T or BT. These companies are bad in their own ways, but they are pure, virgin saints in comparison to Monsanto.

    Monsanto represents everything which is wrong with extreme capitalism. It is the poster child for why government regulations are necessary, even in a free market. Sadly, Monsanto has, shall we say, 'undue influence', over many of the government officials which are supposed to be keeping them in check.

    Patenting genes, DNA, and our food supply is wrong. These are the fundamental building blocks of life. If it isn't obvious why giving monopoly power over these to any company - much less one with no morality whatsoever - is bad, then you are an uneducated, dimwitted moron, plain and simple. No ifs or buts about it.

    If you feel like educating yourself, go read Animal Farm. Even The 6th Day with Arnie might prove helpful to you.

  17. Re:Patents run out in 20 years by Kohath · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Except none of these arguments matter because patents run out in 20 years.

    And they only have "control" when you give it to them in exchange for a benefit. If it's not a good deal, don't buy it.

    I don't mindlessly buy into your groupthink. "If you disagree, then you're stupid" tends to be an argument typical of those who promote ideas that are false.

  18. Unintended consequences by zogger · · Score: 5, Interesting

    GMO is a scam, IMO (disclaimer in advance. I am a farmer, I admit bias against monsanto and their ilk, I effin hate the bastids for years now, so take what I write with a grain of salt). It leads to proprietary vendor lock in in spades, along with a host of other issues, health issues, environmental issues and economics, it isn't all rosy. And the issue with superweeds now is getting serious. In my own state, pig amaranth is taking over a lot of fields that were grown with GM cotton then sprayed. Except it doesn't work now, the amaranth is winning. It gets ten feet tall. Some guys just *give up*. Roundup ready crops are just crops designed to be able to withstand roundup or generic equivalent herbicide so they can spray MORE on the crop and more often and not damage the crop. It works-for awhile, that's the real bottom line "for awhile", and you get lots more herbicide residue on whatever you grow. and the stuff itself ain't cheap, over a hundred bucks a jug now and goes up all the time, even the generics keep going up.

    You never *really* get rid of all the weeds, you just fast track selective breed resistant weeds (or insect pests if it is insecticide, like with their BT modded corn). Even the crops themselves turn into weeds, they are having a hard time controlling their GM supercanola, it will spread to other fields and being resistant to herbicides...I think you get the picture.

    Our farmers are by and large stuck in the 70s by mindset, swallowed all that rah rah rah corporate PR bullshit, now are stuck because they don't know any better and can't avoid it and will NOT admit they got suckered bad.

    You think microsoft has vendor lockin...computer OS or some "office suite" is WAY down the list of humanly important *things*. Be concerned, be very concerned over food and availability going into the future is all I can say. They already have had several screwups, one of them one of these days is going to be the czar bomba screwup and will lead to mass famine sometime. I don't know what it will be, but I can about guarantee it will happen. That's my prediction.

    We have climate indicators, and we have health of the crop and insect indicators, and the status of our honeybees now is a good indicator or canary in the coal mine if you will. Superweeds, honeybees croaking off, vendor lockin, loss of biodiversity..you have to look at the whole picture.

    And it isn't so much that the tech is just evil, I don't believe that, it's that the tech is near completely uncontrolled despite so called regulations and studies and they have no idea whatsoever what the long term consequences will be and there's more than a little hanky panky going on with the studies. Think about all the past big corporate screwups, the really bad stuff, and they all have two things in common: 1) the corporations themselves always maintained until the last second there wasn't any problem and if there was they were just innocent bystanders, and 2) they always manage to trot out their posse of tame private scientists and academic scientists to "back them up" until it was so obvious they had to 'fess ip, pay up and admit wrong doing. That's just normal corporate policy taken as a general rule of thumb (same with governments, never admit they were wrong, even in the face of overwhelming evidence). Just the nature of the beast. Your default should be, be a skeptic to corporate and governmental PR and spin.

    Extrapolate at your leisure, but I am not convinced at all they are the best way forward at this point. They are very profitable for monsanto and a few others, at this time, but that's it. It's bankrupting smaller farmers all over the world and leading to a global hegemony on seeds and food. Do we *really* want that to happen, do we really want to lose natural biodiversity and to keep putting millions of the poorest even further into the poorhouse? And, more importantly than that, something that impacts everyone, think of this: we have no "food insurance" or backup planet either once they

    1. Re:Unintended consequences by ChromeAeonium · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And the issue with superweeds now is getting serious. In my own state, pig amaranth is taking over a lot of fields that were grown with GM cotton then sprayed.

      I hear a lot about Roundup and resistant strains. Why is that problem exclusive to Roundup? That couldn't happen with other sprays?

      We have climate indicators, and we have health of the crop and insect indicators, and the status of our honeybees now is a good indicator or canary in the coal mine if you will. Superweeds, honeybees croaking off, vendor lockin, loss of biodiversity..you have to look at the whole picture.

      No, you need to look at each individual phenomenon. Don't say 'GMOs are bad' then list a whole bunch of random problems that aren't connected.

      they have no idea whatsoever what the long term consequences will be

      Without omnipotence, that is indeed hard to predict. How do you solve such a problem? Halting progress indefinitly isn't a reasonable answer. Combustion engines caused global warming. Should we have halted the automobile for the past century until we knew every little thing that could go wrong. Sorry if this sounds reckless, but it simply isn't reasonable.

      What GM crops are is programmed food.

      I fail to see what's wrong with that.

      What GM crops are is programmed food.

      Again, so what? What difference does it make what 'happens in nature?' Also, given time, anything can happen in nature. How do you think those genes got there to begin with?

      You think there won't be some real bad WHOOPS down the line someplace?

      Maybe, but until there is evidence to indicate that, I see no reason to believe that.
       
      I can understand a distaste for Monsanto, but I don't see why the technology itself isn't good, although I must admit that too am biased.

    2. Re:Unintended consequences by FlyingBishop · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I have no problem with experimentation, but we're talking about a system that has functioned for millenia, and you want wholesale conversion after a few decades of testing?

      In terms of our crops, we should have century-long pilot programs where we evaluate the long-term evolutionary results of our meddling. The current method allows no room for failure.

      I know that's hard for people to swallow in an age when we expect evolution to take off at the speed of light, but we should be wary of outright replacing a functional system without reasonable testing.

    3. Re:Unintended consequences by zQuo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The parent has best post I've read about GMO risks. The US focuses on the food risks, but the new risks are the ones to watch out for. Current regulation is about testing for GMO food safety. We have *lots* of regulations in place already about food safety. GMO foods are pretty safe to eat in the short term, I'm pretty certain. But the main risk of GMO foods is not the food safety, but regulations focus mainly on the product of a genetically modified organism, not on it's effects on the ecology.

      http://www.cfr.org/publication/8688/regulation_of_gmos_in_europe_and_the_united_states.html

      The risk of releasing a "programmed" organism out into the wild, where the genetic material cannot be withdrawn once it gets out, is a new risk, and regulation has just not yet caught up, especially in the US. The long term effect of a GMO on the ecology is not tested much before release... and with a GMO, you can't withdraw the experiment! Once it's out it's out. If a GMO plant kills all the honeybees, for instance, well, what can you do to put the genie back in the bottle? Destroy all the pollen?

      All it takes is one company to skimp on testing in the short term and release a GM organism that in some way destroys the food ecology. Then we're toast. At least require some sort of enclosed biodome for testing or something.