Slashdot Mirror
Dell Sues Tiger Direct For Misleading Customers
An anonymous reader writes "Dell is apparently suing popular online retailer Tiger Direct, claiming that Tiger violated the resale contract it had with Dell, which included false advertising, misleading representation and unfair competition. Dell has accused Tiger Direct of selling old and out-dated Dell computers that Tiger Direct purchased from other resellers and then saying they were brand new directly from Dell. They also passed the computers off as still having a full warranty, but the warranties had expired long ago."
Tiger direct is awful. Pay just a little bit more at NewEgg and get actual customer service.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Impossible! The only way I'll be willing to believe a story concerning TigerDirect and unethical behavior is if it includes interminable rebate-and-switching...
Dell required Tiger to advertise falsely, mislead customers, and compete unfairly? That's an awful strange contract!
(badly worded summary. Obviously. Tiger sucks. IMHO. Carry on.)
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
I don't know why but they do.
I used Tiger in the early part of the decade and ended up spending so much time on the phone or on emails fixing my orders with them that I have never gone back. I tried eight orders, all eight were so screwed up that I never went back.
Do like the first person said, use Newegg, the customer service is 5 star and the prices are not bad either.
p.s I don't work for Newegg - However, I really like the customer reviews for parts I intend to buy.
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
Never heard of it. Is it where you can get tigers imported directly form the country of origin?
The Navy Motto "IF it ain't broke Fix It" "A day is wasted if you don't learn something new"
The computers were still new in the box, from reseller stock, but the warranties were expired?
I don't think there's any question that they were actual Dell equipment. So, why should the warranties have expired?
Bruce Perens.
I'm happy with hearing this news. Maybe I can finally remove that email filter that sends all email offers from TigerDirect to the trash bin. Assuming they stop selling new-as-in-expired-but-unopened hardware.
It's nice to see a computer company doing what they can to protect their customer base. Granted I'm sure that it is purely based on self interest, but they could have just as easily ignored the issue.
The musings of just another geek and his junk.
Not surprising at all. They also pass off used, defective items as "refurbished". I imagine they turn them on to make sure they get power and then pack them up for shipping.
NewEgg is a better deal at twice the price. No, I'm not exaggerating.
There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
Tiger Direct does what it can to reduce its prices.
If this includes not packing their goods for shipping, lying about what you're getting, or rebate and switching, so be it.
Their prices are only about 5% lower than most websites. Its not worth it to get a CPU that was dropped into an antistatic bag and put into a box 10x its size unsecured.
Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
I have built 4 computers in the last 4 years, and I purchased about half of the parts for each from Tiger Direct and half from Newegg with a part here and there from local stores. I never had any problems with Tiger Direct myself, but I have seen alot of people complain about issues. I don't buy full computer however and maybe that is where they really show their issues. I figured when Tiger Direct bought CompUSA and kept a few stores open that it was hoping to have 2 brands out there. Then they recently purchased Circuit City IP, which iirc includes the webpage and name. Now that I read this, I think their plan is to let Tiger Direct become the cheap brand compared to their NewEgg competition, and keep the other 2 brands running but named separately so customers don't equate the quality/value of each brand with the other. It is an interesting plan, I have heard people like the new CompUSA and I thought Tiger Direct was going to make a solid retail comeback with CompUSA, I hope this doesn't change that.
If it sounds to good to be true... it usually is
Holds true with any ad I see from any retailer/e-tailer. Always look (as best you can) at the items before you buy.
Most of tiger's stuff that looks good in the beginning, is either really old, refurbished (but not listed that way in the ad), or when you look at the specs of the item it is misleading. I.e. a new HD 50 inch TV. Check out the TV in question, it is new, it is 50 inches, and it is 720p. Now mind you 720p is good, but on a 50 inch TV I would rather have 0180p not 720p. If it was a 20 inch TV then 720p is fine. So the ad to me was misleading. Full HD == 1080p in my book.
I was temped to get one for their bare bones PCs since the price was really low. Then I looked at what the parts were. The parts could make a decent email, web, doc computer. No light gaming, no DVR system (maybe DVR but it at the min). So I passed. I paid about $80 more then their kit and got a system that I knew would do what I wanted.
Stay Away from Tiger Direct, Global Computer, SystemMax - horrible! I once ordered 20 very large CRT monitors from them that were "factory reconditioned" (cheapass boss) that had a warranty. Well they weren't reconditioned in anyway and had no warranty they claimed when I complained. They gave me hard time but eventually I shipped them all back and got my money back.
[blockquote]Dell wants an injunction on Tiger using any of its materials, the destruction of all computers parts and accessories with Dell logos[/blockquote]
What a waste of perfectly good electronics. Surely Dell could have come up with a solution that doesn't contribute to landfills unnecessarily.
You should never sue a tiger direct. Tigers take their legal clawses very seriously. It's much safer to negotiate through an intermediary like a monkey or an elephant.
And feed him to the tiger so your delivery is fresh and ready to claw its way into your heart when it arrives.
Think of them like a Vermont Teddy Bear on steriods. Got one for my gal last Valentines. She broke up with me shortly after. Never even called. I wonder what ever happened to her.
In my one experience with Tiger Direct, the following occurred: .ca domain, with big Canadian flags saying "NO DUTY"), and when the product arrived at my door it had a $150 COD for... dum dum DAAAAAAA... duty, as they shipped from PA.
- 1 year warranty on the product they were offering, only for me to discover once it broke that they were just reselling the manufacturer's 90-day warranty. Of course, they changed their website prior to me realizing this and I didn't get a screenshot so I couldn't report them.
- Claiming to be without duties (even at the
- A toll free number advertised on their CANADIAN site that only worked from the states, forcing me to call long distance to get their customer service who were essentially inept and couldn't answer any of my questions shy of "talk to the manufacturer."
Never again.
Karma: Non-Heinous
I personally would never use tiger as my dealings with them in the past have been, they have LOUSY Customer service. I use newegg, and sometimes mwave, both have better pricing and way better customer service!
Look out the company that owns Tiger also bought CompUSA and are looking at Circuit City.
Dell is calling someone else unethical?! this is the company that has been known to sell "on-site" warranties then tell people that if they don't go into the depot with their device then the customer is voiding the warranty?! Personally I like the tiger crooks a lot better then those dell crooks Is it sad that in society we are left to decide which crooks we like slightly better?
-Ours is the wisdom of Solomon, the magic of Merlyn, the fall of Icaris.
There are a ton of options out there on electronics, including Newegg and several VARs that sell some non-business equipment as well (I work for one, but won't mention the name). In all my dealings w/my endusers, I never have to work very hard to compete w/TD, because they are driving their own rep into the ground. Don't they realize that tech savvy people are the LAST people you get away with pissing off?
Umm... both CompUSA and Circuit City have gone out of business... Either that means Tiger is really hurting, or it shut them down on purpose so everyone would go to Tiger Direct.
Anyone remember TD's odd direct mail tactics in the mid 90's. They had a similiar approach to what Columbia House did with music CD's. They sent out mailings that threatened to send you software that you didn't order if you didn't send back the mailer with a certain box checked. That was thier thankyou for ordering out of the catalogue.
I work for a school, and we use their B2B site quite a bit. We buy tons of printers, hard drives, monitors, TVs, VCR/DVD players, open license software...etc. from them.
Yes, they are cheap, yes they sell refurbed and B-stock stuff - but it is all clearly labeled. Devoting 5 minutes to reading a product description for a large purchase isn't asking too much.
As far as their customer service goes, we have a dedicated sales rep, so I can't comment on personal purchases, but we've been very happy with our rep. Out of 100 or so orders, we've had maybe two screw-ups. Our rep promptly fixed the problem in both cases.
So, here's one happy customer....whatever that's worth.
-ted
I had no issues with Tigerdirect and used them for about 7 years (I used to like the catalogs in the mail too). I switched to newegg mainly because of the cheaper prices, not customer support or quality of products.
Here, you can have a look at my asshole too since everyone seems to be bending over and sharing their personal experience as if it means anything.
Bought about 4-5 HD from the canadian Tigerdirect.ca site over the past few years and I had one of them that failed the same month.
Got it exchanged with no problem. The phone service was excellent and I even got talking to one about adding ram for our Acer One and the guy sent me a Youtube link. MAybe the canucks are better at service than some Indiana inbreds but I've dealt with DELL customer support and its NOT EVEN CLOSE how bad their service was compared to tigerdirect.ca.
I've also bought ram, NAS case and a few others things with no problems but I dont buy laptops online so maybe that explains the good experiences Ive had.
My personal opinion is just based on my experience which has been good so far.
I live near a tiger direct store myself, and I've had pretty good service from them both online as well as in-store. What's so shocking about selling something new that is no longer sold? How often does Newegg go fix their 8 month old inventory comments that say 'blistering performance for today's market' and it's for a Pentium 4? People sell the stuff and add all sorts of good fluff to make the consumer think it's a good purchase. The consumer should know if it really is however.
Go look at TigerDirect and Newegg's video cards. Every single card sold by EVGA uses DDR2 or DDR3. This can be confirmed by EVGA's website. You go look at Newegg or TigerDirect and they all say gddr2 or gddr3. Not one card mislabeled, all are wrong. There are distinct difference that make that "G" very important. I've called them both on it and they just tell me they'll look into it and get back to me. Still not fixed today, more than 6 month later. This exact issue is for most brands, I just chose to mention EVGA since I was stiffed into buying a card with 'gddr2' memory, only to find on the box when it arrived 'ddr2'. Now I don't trust what any e-tailer says about the product, I'm forced to go to the manufacturer's website to get the correct answer.
As far as I'm concerned, selling a video card that says gddr2/gddr3 is blatant false advertising. By telling them that I know they're wrong and they should fix it makes it deliberate blatant false advertising. I'm sure I'm not the only one that has caught this, but why aren't we (as comsumers) able to hold these companies responsible for deliberate, blantant, false advertising?
The way I see it, if I tell them they made a mistake maybe TigerDirect should send me a $100 gift card or something. If EVGA sends them a cease and desist letter, how much would it cost TigerDirect to pay a lawyer to figure out how to fix the mess? I'm sure my gift card was cheaper in the long run. And we wonder why the American economy is in the toilet, common sense doesn't apply.
I've never had a problem with TigerDirect. Then again, I know exactly what I'm purchasing, I don't try to buy rebate items, and I don't need or use their customer service. They're prices are cheap, but I don't buy the super low end junk either.
Well, it looks like Dell grabbed THIS tiger by the Tell, for they delliberately told a false tale to the public. Now, it's Dell's bells for tiger. Or, for whom bells toll for Tiger... Tiger will have to go clawing around for a new fang(led) tactic to get their paws and mitts on money.
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
The cable box gui looks like that
Dude, you're gettin' a lawyer!
My company used Tiger Direct extensively until they canceled our account. They literally fired us as a customer because their records showed we had disputed a relatively small charge. This was not the case, and verifiably so. However the account manager told us we were bad customers and not to call back. Screw em, Newegg rocks.
I use to love TigerDirect, but then they got bought up. Systemax owns them, along with CompUSA, Global Computer, CircuitCity, and many others ( http://www.systemax.com/shop.html )
NewEgg has been great, but the prices are not as good as they once were. They previously were always the price leader. Now I am finding Amazon.com is often cheaper after S/H.
Currently, if Dell sells it I buy it from them. Many items can be had for 40%-85% off. Software can often be bought at 85% off if you ask correctly. I find Dell is the easiest to ask this of.
Yes they both went out of business, and AFTER that Tiger Direct bought the remainders. I need to clarify that Tiger Direct is owned by Systemax, and Systemax is who made the purchases I am speaking about. I believe for CompUSA it was 12 or so actual store buildings and the name CompUSA. The Circuit City purchase included IP, the Circuit City name, and their webpage. So now Systemax operates Tiger Direct as a eTailer, and CompUSA as a B&M retailer. Their plans for the Circuit City properties haven't been announced yet as far as I know. You can find other non Wiki announcements but I linked it below since it refers to both deals. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemax
It's not by accident BTW. A friend that worked for in the sales for a company that shall remain nameless said to me once (yes, he has paid NewEgg visits before) "no matter what you say to those people, their response were always 'can we get your products for less?', and that include questions like 'where's the bathroom?' and 'can I get a cup of water?'." With some products NewEgg makes as little as a dollar, and a single return would wipe out any profit on it.
TigerDirect are spammers and they're not real ethical. No surprise there.
My newegg experiences have been ALMOST uniformly good. Two issues:
1. When I bought an MSI video card through NewEgg, MSI screwed me on the rebate -- and then went around signing me up for spam when I complained. (Yes, I have proof that MSI signed me up for spam -- IP addresses and timestamps and everything.) NewEgg offered me a $25 credit on a future order but never applied it. (I don't actually care that much, I figure it just fell through the cracks.)
2. I ordered an LCD display from them, two-day shipping and all that. A week later, they still could not tell me even whether or not it was in stock, or when they might know whether or not it was in stock. They eventually cancelled it. I would have been MUCH happier with being told sooner; I had specifically wanted it to be there by Friday, and I ended up waiting another full week and change before getting the display. (Got it from one of the photo discounters, since it's a high-end NEC. No problems except for one cyan pixel that showed up a month or so after I got it.)
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
They are selling you a 720p tv, what you would rather want has nothing to do with what they are advertising, as long as the ad is honest its your problem.
It was about 1997 or so. I was trying to buy my first PC (switching from Mac), and Tiger Direct seemed like a pretty together mail-order outfit.
I ordered some "high end" Pentium II computer, and paid for it with my hard-earned part-time job money.
It was to be delivered in 2 weeks.
And then I waited.
And waited.
And then the specs of the model changed, but I didn't have my computer.
And then I started calling for an update and demanding that I get the new specs. I was told that I already had the computer at one point, requiring me to push ever deeper into the Tiger Direct behemoth to find someone who could give me a tracking number for this ethereal computer of theirs.
Specs changed again.
Finally, after SIX MONTHS and a letter from the campus legal services lawyer, someone with some power called me. She was the first actual human I talked to. She apologized profusely, said she couldn't even figure out what happened, but that it was a mess, and sent me a check for the money.
Never again.
All that being said, I'm now on month 3 of waiting for my Dell Mini9, and I think it's fallen in price, but they've already charged my card... It's harder, though, getting really angry about it when you aren't in college and broke.
I guess Dell may have a point, but them complaining about someone else violating the terms of their reseller agreements seems a bit ironic.
Michael Dell got his start by persuading IBM dealers to violate their reseller agreements. He was among the first and most successful IBM PC "grey marketers" before he started making his own PCs.
For those unfamiliar with the term, in the early days of the IBM PC, IBM dealers had to sign a contract stating that they wouldn't sell PCs to resellers. They had this condition in the contract in part because IBM charged huge markups on their peripherals, and they wanted to protect those revenues.
Michael Dell (back in the "PCs Limited" days and before) would persuade people to sell him "bare" PCs at list price, and then he'd make his money selling the systems fully configured, taking a lower markup on the peripherals to enable him to make a profit while still charging less than IBM. He was also able to bypass the artificial local shortages in supply created by IBM's allocation policies.
What he did was great for consumers, actually, but more than a couple of dealers got their reseller agreements with IBM pulled because of it.
I have worked with Tiger for years and have never had any problems with them. The products have always come as labeled, and end up at my door the next day if I order before 5 (choosing the cheapest shipping method). I like NewEgg too, don't get me wrong, both sites are great..but Tiger has GREAT shipping (I'm located in WI)
Individuals must choose, decide their "essential" nature rather than having it given from some transcendent source.
Check out hard disk warranty terms some times. Warranty on drives started ticking on the day they're "manufactured" (according to the label on the drives) NOT the day you bought your drive.
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
No, Systemax bought the brands after they went out of business.
"Programming is like sex - one mistake and you'll have to support it for the rest of your life."
I don't think so... at least, not in EU...
In EU, products have 2 years warrantie if sold to end users (normally this means non-business in the convulced contracts of the suppliers). ;)
Just phone them and ask for a price adjustment. Especially if you haven't yet received the item, they will do that for you in a blink.
I bought something a while back from TigerDirect and got on their mailing list. Later I entered a contest at CompUSA and inadvertently got on their mailing list.
Guess what? They send the same exact stuff (except different names at the top) with the same prices and catch lines, etc. One sends out their emails an hour or so later (can't remember which sends first).
Wow after so many years TigerDirect has not changed its ways. You see, I used to work for them back in the days where they were a relatively small company. I know firsthand how terrible the customer service was, the way I was trained and how bad the crap was coming out of their warehouse. I routinely hung up on customers, added items to their orders that they didn't want (we called them spiffs) and placed people on eternal hold. Customer service was a joke, they had weekly contest to see who can sell more and that meant not giving a rats ass about a customer after the order was placed. I remember them having a very large batch of DeadOnArrival motherboards from a canadian supplier and after knowing about it, continue to sell them to clear out all of the inventory. All the meanwhile the end user was stuck with a paperweight and TigerDirect shrugging their shoulders while giving them a long distance ph number for the supplier and told to deal with them. I got fired from there after spending almost a week straight giving customers full refunds for the crap they purchased from there. Boy were they pissed.
From everything I've heard ordering from Tiger is legitimately awful, but around here they are the onyl actual brick and mortar discount stores that are any good. In all honesty you can get really nice prices from them if you know what your doing. The thing I always tell people is go ahead and buy from them, just make sure you know what your buying, and don't depend on their description, sales pitch, etc (and can anyone find me a computer store that isn't true for?).
Dell's relation to Microsoft?
false advertising? "VISTA Ready" - check...
misleading representation? "Fastest, most secure OS ever" - check ....
unfair competition? Ad rebates, illegal secret contracts, NVidia support - check....
Running with Linux for over 20 years!
Yeah, I have to agree with you. NewEgg ships promptly and seems to fill their orders accurately, plus offers great pricing (especially with the free shipping deals they run on various items).
I guess all of that adds up to excite people about them and give them those 5 star ratings.
I started using them regularly though, and honestly, I've had a lot of problems. Might just be bad luck, but here are some examples:
1. Ordered an Epson DLP projector and it arrived D.O.A. Just had a blinking orange power light whenever I turned it on. Had to send it back, and doing so was a little bit of a hassle. NewEgg made me use their automated RMA system, which means waiting at least a day or so just to get confirmation that they're really going to accept your return. Doesn't seem possible to talk to a human and get it done any quicker?
2. Ordered a Microsoft keyboard on sale from them, and again, arrived D.O.A. I plugged it into the USB port of 6 different computers (found it hard to believe something as basic as a keyboard was dead), but nothing..... Return shipping to NewEgg made it more cost-effective to eat the loss and throw it away.
3. Ordered a 500GB SATA notebook hard drive, and when it arrived (took a long time too, for some reason), the SATA connector on the edge of it was broken off. Looked like they wrapped the bubble wrap too tightly around the drive and snapped off the connector when they taped it up. Had to go through the RMA hassle AGAIN, and it took them several days to approve my return this time around.
I live about 30 minutes from Newegg headquarters. Not only do I have to pay the new 9.5% sales tax and California "environmental fees", I have to pay SHIPPING also, which can be quite alot. Newegg doesn't offer free shipping on many items even if you place a large order.
Try PC Connection. No sales tax, no environmental fees, no shipping (Free shipping on all items if your order is over $99).
I've placed 2 orders with them so far and have had good results. One of them was an LCD monitor, and I had to return it because of dead pixel issues. They sent me a prepaid UPS label so I didn't have to pay for shipping back even, and about 10 days later they gave me a full refund.
I believe the url is pcconnection.com
There are several kinds of things we get from them: New equipment, particularly stuff with a) no moving parts and b) that they don't actually carry in their stores. That's because there's a store not quite between my home and office, and if they don't have it in the store they'll ship it to you free. That generally means free overnight shipping from their warehouse about 25 miles away.
Also cheap stuff like a quick grab of a small unmanaged switch or a replacement power supply if I don't have one on hand. Where else am I going to get something same-day - Best Buy or an office supply place?
Third is a bunch of refurbed IBM desktops for use as terminals. Sure they're crappy little boxes but they're fine for simple use, and as one of my coworkers commented on the pricing "So what you're saying is that you get a free PC with your copy of XP Pro?"
fencepost
just a little off
I've bought plenty of stuff from Tiger Direct over the years and I can't think of a single time I had a problem with service. I rarely had to return anything. Even when I did, I can't remember a time when I had a problem doing it. Then again I've never bought retail from them.
Dell were successfully prosecuted for false advertising in Australia. I wonder if that's where they learned about the concept?
"A cynic is what an idealist calls a realist" - Sir Humphrey Appleby
I have been a customer of Tigerdirect for years, and if you would have ask me to write a report for them in the past it would have been a glowing one, however that has changed. After my situation, I can no longer recommend them, and I find it difficult to believe that the BBB continues to list this company as an A rated company fulfilling its duties to customers. It certainly has not in my case.
On November 20th, 2008, I was sitting in the Fort Lauderdale Airport when I received an email from Tiger Direct which included sale information on several large screen LCD televisions. I had been thinking about Christmas and wanted to purchase one for my family for Christmas. You see, on that day I was returning to Honduras where I am a missionary and I thought this would be a big surprise for my family. So I was willing to spend the nearly 600 dollars plus the $180 for import taxes and fees in Honduras, plus with LG being a worldwide company, I thought there would be no problem in getting service if I ever had problems with the unit. So I placed my order and on December 12th my new Television arrived in Honduras.
I went to pick it up, the box was huge, there was no place to hide it until christmas so I said, we will go ahead and open it early. My wife Rosa and I brought it in the house the kids jumped up and down, they screamed, it was totally crazy, with smiles and laughter they could not wait. I proceeded to unpack the unit, put everything together connect all the connections and connected the TV to electricity. Then the big moment, my wife, and kids excited, sitting on the edge of their seats barely able to contain themselves as I hit the power button, sound we have sound, oh I can't wait to see the picture 12,000:1 contrast, that has to be sharp, clear, so much better than our old 19" I thought..... and we waited, and waited, but no picture, the excitement of the kids died away.
I began to think this cannot be happening! I was angry! I was frustrated! I just spent the only money that our family had for Christmas presents this year (proceeds from refinancing a loan in the states) and they have shipped me a dud. So OK there are a few days before Christmas, I am trying to be positive, we have an LG Authorized service Center here in Town this should not be a problem, hopefully they can get it fixed before Christmas, this can't be that big of a deal. So I start looking through the paperwork for the warranty information and I find a paper that gives a 800 number for LG warranty service, and on this paper there is a note which states that outside the USA the warranty is not valid. I thought LG was an international company! Then I thought, oh well Tiger Direct is a good upstanding company, I've never had any problem with them in the past, this will not be a problem either... I call Tiger Direct to tell them they shipped me a dud and I was slightly disturbed by the attitude of the person on the phone but every now and then you get a person who is having a bad day so I was not alarmed, that person said there was nothing they could do, call LG and gave me a number in the USA. When I called LG the person literally laughed at me. I just spent nearly $600 to buy an LG product never one time did the product work and the tech is laughing at me, because I was so stupid as to take it out of the country...I called Tiger Direct again, got a good person this time, she said she didn't know what they could do, she would talk to her supervisors, I suggested that if they would work with me, I could take it to the LG place here, they could diagnose the problems, I could tell them the parts that we would need and Tiger Direct could help me get the parts under warranty, I would still have to pay for service here in Honduras, but that could work. She said she would put that in my file and check with supervisors. I took the unit to the service center, they asked about the unit because it was brand new, I explained that I had just purchased it and it did not work, they said, this should be covered under warranty, I agreed! I was relie