Slashdot Mirror


Competition Seeks Best Approaches To Detecting Plagiarism

marpot writes "Does your school/university check your homeworks/theses for plagiarism? Nowadays, probably Yes, but are they doing it properly? Little is known about plagiarism detection accuracy, which is why we conduct a competition on plagiarism detection, sponsored by Yahoo! We have set up a corpus of artificial plagiarism which contains plagiarism with varying degrees of obfuscation, and translation plagiarism from Spanish or German source documents. A random plagiarist was employed who attempts to obfuscate his plagiarism with random sequences of text operations, e.g., shuffling, deleting, inserting, or replacing a word. Translated plagiarism is created using machine translation."

289 comments

  1. Insightful fact... by telchine · · Score: 3, Funny

    Here's an insightful fact related to this article:

    Little is known about plagiarism detection accuracy

    1. Re:Insightful fact... by gnick · · Score: 3, Informative

      But a lot of faith is put in it. I've got a friend that works at the University of Phoenix. We caught up not long ago and he was singing praises about how you just dump a paper into this tool he uses and it instantly tells you the exact percentage of plagiarism content in the student's paper. Too high == disciplinary action - Apparently without even bothering tracking sources or verifying specific plagiarized sections.

      Of course, this all came to me second hand - I've not used the tools myself.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    2. Re:Insightful fact... by Erwos · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The tools are fairly good, but, in my experience, they'll always report 3-7% or so of your paper as plagiarized, just because it's pretty difficult to write about _anything_ without unknowingly using previously written words. I would _hope_ that anyone who would pursue disciplinary action from such a tool's results would at least take a look to see if the sections being flagged are consequential.

      I have no idea how good they are with catching paraphrasing, though... it strikes me that the semi-intelligent plagiarizers would be doing that more than a straight copy and paste. There's also the "acceptable vs unacceptable" distinction to be made.

      --
      Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
    3. Re:Insightful fact... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 0, Redundant

      It isn't faith! It's hard fact. How could something as precise as numbers possibly be misleading or fail to accurately represent the world? I bet that there is an appeals process, where you request three whole extra decimal places, as well. Luxury, I tell you.

    4. Re:Insightful fact... by eln · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That sort of thing is just unfair. In my opinion, plagiarism is indeed a heinous crime in an academic setting because it goes against everything the pursuit of academics is supposed to be about. Given that, the punishment should be severe.

      However, since the punishment for plagiarism should be severe, there should be great care to investigate it properly. If you can show a preponderance of evidence that not only is a paper plagiarized, but you can accurately identify the source(s) from which each plagiarized section of it was copied, then the student should be expelled after the first offense. If you can't come up with that evidence, though, you should not be punishing the student.

      I thought professors had legions of grad students to ferret this sort of thing out, why do they need these programs? Trusting a decision that could permanently impact a student's entire life to a computer program seems careless and dangerous.

    5. Re:Insightful fact... by Erwos · · Score: 1

      I don't really get what you're saying. If the program is showing 35%+ of the paper as plagiarized, that's pretty much a preponderance of evidence right there. The program will tell you were the plagiarism is from, too, if it's anything like what I used.

      --
      Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
    6. Re:Insightful fact... by mathx314 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It can be substantially higher than that as well. In high school I wrote a five page paper about A Tale of Two Cities, with a few lengthy quotes, being a book by Dickens. Since it wasn't a terribly long paper and I had length quotes, I got somewhere around 20% plagiarized. Fortunately my teacher was smart enough to check before accusing me, but I remember hearing some talk from a later English teacher that the department was considering a 10% cutoff, above which you received disciplinary action regardless of the circumstances.

    7. Re:Insightful fact... by BillCable · · Score: 4, Interesting

      My wife teaches for Phoenix. Probably 90% of the plagiarism she sees is from students copying and pasting whole papers word-for-word from random cheat sites. Occasionally she'll get someone who fails to properly quote sources, but that's very much the minority. For the most part, the cheaters aren't all that bright, nor do they try to hide their cheating. They're just hoping they get away with it.

    8. Re:Insightful fact... by Deagol · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think that the objection here comes from the lack of transparency of the product being used. You input a paper, and you get a percentage answer. You're not given a list of papers/sources that registered a match (it would seem, anyway -- I don't know), thus you cannot verify the claims of the machine. Of course, being proprietary systems, I highly doubt that the vendor will allow inspection of the methods of detection or the database.

      The point is, that 35% means *nothing* useful without the exact context it was generated in.

      As we've seen with black-box voting machines, block-box web filters, and black-box breathalyzers, I suspect we'll see many lawsuits about black-box plagiarism detectors. After all, such a program can adversely affect one's long-term future, so the system better damned well be transparent and close to infallible (at least as much as the human-based method of detection).

    9. Re:Insightful fact... by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      The program needs to justify its accusation - if 35% of the paper is plagiarized, it should be able to provide some lengthy passages from some other site that match the paper.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    10. Re:Insightful fact... by El_Muerte_TDS · · Score: 4, Insightful

      For the most part, the cheaters aren't all that bright, nor do they try to hide their cheating.

      How would you know? The best cheaters won't be caught, but that doesn't mean they're not cheaters.

    11. Re:Insightful fact... by Erwos · · Score: 1

      The app I used not only told you what the plagiarized source was, but also gave you the passage that was plagiarized from. So your objection is irrelevant. In fact, I specifically addressed it in the post you're replying to.

      These detectors are not black boxes at all.

      --
      Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
    12. Re:Insightful fact... by Lord+Pillage · · Score: 1

      The problem is if it says that 35% was copied from another location, as long as the work is cited it technically isn't plagiarism since the student wouldn't be passing the work off as their own. They should probably receive a poor grade for lack of actual work, but as long as they don't claim it as their own, the text is not plagiarised.

      --
      try { Signature mysig = new CleverAttempt(); } catch(NonCleverSignatureException e) { postanyway(); }
    13. Re:Insightful fact... by bob.appleyard · · Score: 2, Informative

      When I was at university, one of the lecturers showed us the plagiarism detection tool. Sure, it gave you a percentage, but it also gave you some output showing the passages in the text vs. what the program thought those passages had been taken from. He showed that most of the things that the tool had detected there were inconsequential, on the paper he was using for the demonstration.

      --
      How dare you be so modest!! You conceited bastard!!
    14. Re:Insightful fact... by johnsonav · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The best cheaters won't be caught, but that doesn't mean they're not cheaters.

      Sufficiently advanced cheating is indistinguishable from original work.

      How can you know that everyone isn't cheating? Do you give up? Or, try and pick the low-hanging fruit?

      --
      ... and that's when the C.H.U.D.'s came at me.
    15. Re:Insightful fact... by bcrowell · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In my opinion, plagiarism is indeed a heinous crime in an academic setting because it goes against everything the pursuit of academics is supposed to be about. Given that, the punishment should be severe. [...] the student should be expelled after the first offense

      I teach physics at a community college, and although I don't assign the kind of term papers you'd see in an English course, I do grade homework, lab writeups, and exams, and plagiarism is an issue that comes up. My school's policy is that the only punishment the professor can give for cheating is to assign a zero on that particular assignment. This is, in my opinion, almost no punishment at all; typically the reason people cheat is because they know they're going to fail, so assigning an F isn't a punishment, it's more like assigning the grade that the student actually earned. The school's administration tells us that this policy is the way it is because of a recent legal decision in California. Before this rule was imposed on us, my policy had been to give the student an F in the course if it was a serious case of cheating. In any case, my school, like most community colleges, has an extremely late drop deadline (the 14th week of the semester), so, e.g., if I give a student an F on an exam for cheating on the exam, the student will typically just drop the course, resulting in no penalty on his transcript other than a W, which will not affect his GPA.

      My school does provide a process where the professor can file a form to report academic misconduct. The form is then supposed to be followed up on by the dean, filed somewhere, and referred to later if the student shows a repeating pattern of cheating. Theoretically the student can be expelled, but never on the first offense. My experience is that this process doesn't actually seem to work, because the administrators involved aren't interested in spending the time and meeting with angry students. The threat hanging over the heads of the profs and deans is always that the parents will sue. Avoiding lawsuits is always the administration's top priority, far higher than education.

      The long and the short of it is that when a student makes a calculated decision to risk cheating, he's usually doing it based on a realistic assessment that the consequences of getting caught are extremely mild.

      However, since the punishment for plagiarism should be severe, there should be great care to investigate it properly. If you can show a preponderance of evidence that not only is a paper plagiarized, but you can accurately identify the source(s) from which each plagiarized section of it was copied, then the student should be expelled after the first offense. If you can't come up with that evidence, though, you should not be punishing the student.

      There is absolutely no way, at least at my school, that a student would ever be expelled for plagiarism. To get expelled, you would have to physically attack someone. You seem to be imagining a situation in which the professor and/or the school punishes the student just because a particular piece of software flashes a message on the screen saying "plagiarized." I can't believe that anyone would ever do that. Of course you're going to look at the text that matched, and see whether you really believe that it looks like it was plagiarized.

      I thought professors had legions of grad students to ferret this sort of thing out, why do they need these programs?

      No, most professors do not have grad students to do this. I work at a community college. No grad students. My wife teaches at Cal State LA. They have grad students, but the grad students don't work as TAs or graders; the professors have to grade 100% of the written work.

      Trusting a decision that could permanently impact a student's entire life to a computer program seems careless and dangerous.

      I don't think anyone does trust such a decision to a program. They use the program as a first step.

    16. Re:Insightful fact... by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 1

      I don't really get what you're saying. If the program is showing 35%+ of the paper as plagiarized, that's pretty much a preponderance of evidence right there. The program will tell you were the plagiarism is from, too, if it's anything like what I used.

      You raise a good point. If the computer says it's plagiarism, then it is. Assuming that plagiarism is defined as, "what the program catches".

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    17. Re:Insightful fact... by BillCable · · Score: 1

      I said "for the most part." It'd actually be a lot more effort to cheat and do enough to get away with it, than it would to just write the paper correctly. The people who are cheating seem to be doing it out of laziness or desperation. They run out of time to complete the assignment, so they Google something and use whatever pops up.

    18. Re:Insightful fact... by SerpentMage · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think that this is very dangerous...

      Let me tell you about a situation. I was a speaker until recently. And around 98 I was giving a talk on technology X. Another speaker who was from the company who created the technology also gave a talk on technology X. Me and this other speaker knew each other, but we did not converse.

      Oddly our two talks were VERY VERY similar. He in a private manner accused me of copying his slide deck. Since he was a more well known speaker and I a newbie it seemed all logical.

      It was only when a good friend of mine who also worked at the company jumped in and said, "Naa, he would not do that."

      Then when my good friend came later to talk to me he asked, "you did not copy, right?"

      Answer was a definite NO! I did not copy. We just happened to be thinking along the same lines and came up with a VERY VERY similar slide deck.

      In other words a fluke! And this is why I hate statistics and numbers without a thought behind it.

      --

      "You can't make a race horse of a pig"
      "No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
    19. Re:Insightful fact... by samcan · · Score: 3, Informative

      Forget 20%, I had a rough draft with as high as 61%! The particular service we used in high school was Turnitin.com, and a research paper I wrote for high school had an appendix with a copy of the 1805 Treaty of Tripoli (as a help for the teacher)...the website flagged that as 18% plagiarized, from some random Bell Atlantic user's website.

      Excluding that, the site would flag random sentences, and would flag part of a sentence as plagiarized, skip a word or two, and then say the rest of the sentence was plagiarized from the same source!

      An example is shown below (words in bold are supposedly plagiarized from one source, words in italics from another):

      Thus, the Founding Fathers wanted to create a government that was stable, and protected the rights of the people.

      Another example from a paper on the Russo-German war of 1941:

      They propose that German troops push all the way to the outskirts of Moscow, causing Joseph Stalin to abandon the city. While escaping, his train is destroyed by German planes, removing all signiïcant leadership to the Red Army.

      In another paper, when I quoted an article, I listed the title of the article in-text. Turnitin reported that the title of the article was plagiarism...of the article I was citing!

      Turnitin.com has "features" for excluding the quoted text, and excluding the bibliography, but as I use LaTeX, and like to use block quotes, the usefulness of these features are questionable.

      In my opinion, Turnitin.com is a joke.

    20. Re:Insightful fact... by Bakkster · · Score: 1

      I thought professors had legions of grad students to ferret this sort of thing out, why do they need these programs? Trusting a decision that could permanently impact a student's entire life to a computer program seems careless and dangerous.

      Grad students might be good at catching factual errors, but not at catching plagiarism. The difference is the data they have available. It's nearly impossible to catch plagiarism without having knowledge of where they copied the work from. Unless the plagiarism is of a blatently different writing style, the only way to determine it is through comparison.

      Grad students are good at reading and comparing, but probably remember few previous papers they have read, let alone well enough to know when they read plagiarised content from them. Computers are great at utilizing a large database of previous works, but rubbish at comparison if the two are not exactly equal.

      So the point here is to use the current database of papers that students would plagiarise from, and to be able to compare them the way that a grad-student would if he were looking at both papers. Let the program do the searching and present the professor (or grad student) with a list of possibly plagiarised work, then let them make the final call. The more refined the results, and the more obfuscated the plagiarism it can catch, the better the system will be overall.

      --
      Write your representatives! Repeal the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics!
    21. Re:Insightful fact... by mh1997 · · Score: 3, Funny

      I said "for the most part." It'd actually be a lot more effort to cheat and do enough to get away with it, than it would to just write the paper correctly. The people who are cheating seem to be doing it out of laziness or desperation. They run out of time to complete the assignment, so they Google something and use whatever pops up.

      I completely agree that It'd actually be a lot more effort to cheat and do enough to get away with it, than it would to just write the paper correctly. The people who are cheating seem to be doing it out of laziness or desperation. They run out of time to complete the assignment, so they Google something and use whatever pops up.

    22. Re:Insightful fact... by BillCable · · Score: 1

      If you just put that in quotes and added a footnote you'd be golden. ;-)

    23. Re:Insightful fact... by Urza9814 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Here's the interesting thing: I have a professor that uses such tools (specifically TurnItIn.com), and I submitted a paper not too long ago and was told it was 6% plagiarized. No big deal. My prof said 20-30% would be allowable, as like you said, it's hard to write anything without seemingly plagiarizing. But the problem is this: I didn't cheat, I never saw anyone else's papers, and nobody ever saw mine. Yet a week later, after everyone else had sumbitted, suddenly I was at 23% plagiarized. Now, my professor didn't make any mention of it, but this raises a question about such services - they provide no way to see what the percentage was when submitted, only what it is now. And depending on how specific the prompt was that is being submitted, your percentage plagiarized can increase dramatically from other students submitting their own responses.

      Oh, and of course the reason nobody should act on such tools alone - I have yet to see one that can will determine if a source has been cited or not. That doesn't mean there aren't ones that do that out there - I would be surprised if there weren't - but with TurnItIn as my example again, if I made heavy use of attributed quotes in my paper, I may start off with 20%+ plagiarized. And after everyone else submits I may even break 50%. Even without plagiarizing a single sentence. Anyone who is stupid enough to rely entirely on the score some program gives has no place in education.

    24. Re:Insightful fact... by mathx314 · · Score: 1

      We also used Turnitin, as it happens. I guess that's just not a very well-made service.

    25. Re:Insightful fact... by MickLinux · · Score: 1

      I thought professors had legions of grad students to ferret this sort of thing out

      Well, theoretically, yes. However, in my experience, the grad students would assign 10 times too much work, then not grade it all semester, and at the end of the semester call them all "90", minus 10x number of days late. So those who did the work get Ds, while the 80% who don't even bother get Bs. Then the faculty support them, because they weren't paying attention, and it would look bad for 80% of their class to fail the course.

      In my opinion, plagiarism is indeed a heinous crime in an academic setting because it goes against everything the pursuit of academics is supposed to be about.

      I'm sorry, you completely lost me there. What is academics supposed to be about? I once thought I knew, but by now I'm sure I don't.

      --
      Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
    26. Re:Insightful fact... by Idiomatick · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That is the goal. Culling the crappy cheaters is the same as culling the crappy students. So long as you are failing a high enough quota you will ensure a high enough quality of students make it through. This isn't new at all. Just make it so that to cheat and succeed it requires you to be as smart or smarter than someone doing the work legitimately.

    27. Re:Insightful fact... by wealthychef · · Score: 1

      Or, maybe we just need to put some thought into writing and grading papers. God forbid we have to do some work to generate new ideas. :-)

      --
      Currently hooked on AMP
    28. Re:Insightful fact... by radtea · · Score: 1

      These detectors are not black boxes at all.

      False. The detector you used was not a black box. The discussion you're replying too specifically cited turnitin.com as a detector that IS a blackbox.

      At best you have a plausible conjecture based on your limited experience that all detectors are transparent and give adequate feedback on the sources of suspected plagiarism, but as someone once said, "plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive."

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    29. Re:Insightful fact... by DangerFace · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think this kind of hits the nail on the head. The problem with plagiarism detection is that if you're writing a paper on the Russo-German war of 1941, or classical conditioning, or yaddah yaddah yaddah, is that unless you have found some significant new information, which is highly doubtful, everything you write will have been written before. The purpose of writing these papers - in general, at least - isn't in order to educate the entire field but to show that you have the ability to put together a coherent piece of work.

      In this day and age plagiarism is a bit like cheatbot.exe. When you can subcontract your work out to Indian PhDs, and Turnitin.com make every piece of work handed in to them, ever, available for download for a small fee, the only possible defence against plagiarism is decent teachers working decent hours and getting to know their pupils well enough to recognise their work. Admittedly, that isn't exactly ironclad but it's the best method for teaching anyway and it's the best way to avoid false positives, which is a priority for me since I don't plagiarise.

    30. Re:Insightful fact... by MickLinux · · Score: 0, Troll

      It seems to me that your school's policy is well thought out, and appropriate. Not because cheating is okay, but because going over and above justice makes the justice highly subjective, and subject to abuse. Positive abuse, by someone finding a paper that is 3% plagiarized, and failing the student. Negative abuse, by *not* failing another student who plagiarized very badly.

      Once you go past justice, then you have to go into the rule of personality.

      If you've read Hayak's Road-to-serfdom, you'll have an idea of what I'm describing: it's the loss of the rule of law (where the law sets down specific procedures for use in all cases) to the rule of personality (where the law empowers individuals to be as subjective as they want).

      That said, there is one other thing you can do. You can inform the student -- in writing -- that you consider his work to be plagiarized, naming the work and the source. Further, you can inform him in writing that if he is in the future to ask you for a recommendation, it will be a bad one, and will include a copy of this assignment, with specifics. That, also, is straight justice, and is not without effect.

      That said, plagiarism is nowadays standard in physics. So is bullying that silences academic freedom (Take, for instance, JPLs bullying to prevent the publication of the fact that its Titan lander photos -- which contain smoke plumes, amazingly enough -- actually are left-right reversed photos of Pearl Harbor, taken from a Japanese plane.). So is the misawarding of degrees (such as PhDs, awarded on a first-come first-serve basis, rather than to the person who did all the work). So is the misawarding of awards (such as the Nobel Prize... for example, the story of the discovery of superconductivity).

      Quite frankly, I don't have a lot of respect for academia in general. But insofar as a particular school or professor tries to do the best they can, I have respect for *them*.

      --
      Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
    31. Re:Insightful fact... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      see: http://rompa.mybrute.com/

    32. Re:Insightful fact... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "I think this kind of hits the nail on the head. The problem with plagiarism detection is that if you're writing a paper on the Russo-German war of 1941, or classical conditioning, or yaddah yaddah yaddah, is that unless you have found some significant new information, which is highly doubtful, everything you write will have been written before. The purpose of writing these papers - in general, at least - isn't in order to educate the entire field but to show that you have the ability to put together a coherent piece of work."

      True, and that's why I've not understood the widespread plagiarism that seems to have happened over the past couple decades. I mean, it isn't that hard to write a paper. You just get a vague topic, start looking up sources that have something to do with it...CITE everything you can (the more the better, direct quotes, with reference numbers to fill out a paper), and all you have to do is come up with a little text between quotes to 'pull it all together' somewhat.

      You really, especially as an undergrad student, have to write all that much. Just quote a bunch of cited sources, and fill in a little around it with your words. Bang..done.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    33. Re:Insightful fact... by severoon · · Score: 3, Funny

      Sufficiently advanced cheating is called learning.

      Here's the proper way to cheat—it never failed me in university philosophy courses. Let's say you're supposed to read two or three of Nietzsche's works and write on the topic of Nietzsche: Feminist or Misogynist? You could try to read his books, but you won't understand them. Even if you do understand them, you will need to research his life in order to interpret his works in the proper context. And, after all that, when you finally do all this legwork, you'll only learn that he specifically designed his writings and behavior to lead you into a black hole. No normal human has a chance.

      So here's what you do. You put down the primary sources and go to the library. Read papers published by Ph.D. students that interpret Nietzsche's works and struggle to answer the question before you. Make notes on the general points of the argument and the supporting quotes across several of these papers (they're generally pretty short, and way easier to understand that the primary text). You can even read some Nietzsche if you're feeling adventurous, but I don't recommend it.

      Once you've formulated your own fervently held beliefs about Nietzsche in this way (by ripping them off of original thoughts by people that actually cared), you can leave with only your general notes outlining the arguments and citing the supporting quotes. If there's a good amount of material to choose from, make sure you choose an interpretation that is controversial (but well-supported)...don't turn in just another paper that will make the TA's eye's glaze or the professor want to put a gun in his mouth—liven things up a bit for those poor saps, they're stuck studying philosophy their entire lives! Look at all of the material you've collected and turn it over in your brain...try to synthesize your own controversial conclusion drawn from the points that others have worked so hard to create. Now go party for a couple of days to let it all sink in. The more beer you drink during this time, the less likely that some random quote you read will bubble up from the depths verbatim and get you busted. Once the requisite few days have been partied away, sit down and write the sentence or two that ties together all of the supporting material that you have decided to randomly & provocatively tie together. Include the points and supporting quotes to "prove" what you're saying.

      Instant A. Takes an hour, maybe two at the uni libe, and maybe another couple of hours to draft a typical 5-8 pager. This takes other students in the class weeks of devotion to achieve, leaving you plenty of time to study for your other courses, or study the local bar scene, or interact with the student body (as it were -winkwink-). The best part is, when you sit down to write after a couple of days of partying, it could be a paper, or it could be an in-class midterm or final. Whatever...either way, you're covered.

      --
      but have you considered the following argument: shut up.
    34. Re:Insightful fact... by rxan · · Score: 1

      The same thing happened to me in a programming class I took last year.

      My friend and I had worked together on every group programming assignment/project through university, and we took the exact same courses, too. When we handed in an individual assignment one time, the prof thought we had collaborated on the work.

      We thought so much alike that we made the exact same errors in our programs, which is what caused the prof to target us. Luckily we explained the situation and the professor let us off the hook.

    35. Re:Insightful fact... by scipero · · Score: 1

      The best cheaters? Perhaps so, but cheaters are a self-selecting lazy bunch. Deeply obfuscated plagiarism could easily be as much work as an original paper.

    36. Re:Insightful fact... by bcrowell · · Score: 2, Informative

      Take, for instance, JPLs bullying to prevent the publication of the fact that its Titan lander photos -- which contain smoke plumes, amazingly enough -- actually are left-right reversed photos of Pearl Harbor, taken from a Japanese plane.

      I find this hard to believe. If you're going to make this statement, I would suggest that each time you say it, you also provide a URL or some other information that would allow the reader to verify your claims. Otherwise it just comes off like a kooky conspiracy theory.

    37. Re:Insightful fact... by rxan · · Score: 1

      A lot of people here are complaining that the plagarism detection tools aren't fair.

      Tell me, has anyone here actually been punished for plargarism incorrectly due to one of these tools? And I mean punished, not just wrongly accused.

      I really think that nobody has anything to complain about. Sure, debate over which tools are better, but don't say they are unfair. It's far better for professors to err on the side of caution.

      On another note, it's a good thing that these tools are not transparent. Transparency may give people the ability to get around plagarism detection.

    38. Re:Insightful fact... by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      So here's what you do. You put down the primary sources and go to the library. Read papers published by Ph.D. students that interpret Nietzsche's works and struggle to answer the question before you. Make notes on the general points of the argument and the supporting quotes across several of these papers

      Exactly. There's actually nothing wrong with incorporating research done by someone else into your own. That is not plagiarism. The point is to be able to synthesise ideas, while acknowledging where they came from.

    39. Re:Insightful fact... by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      Anyone who is stupid enough to rely entirely on the score some program gives has no place in education.

      That last line sums it up entirely. A lecturer or supervisor should be able to tell whether or not a body of text has been plagiarised simply from the "delivery". It is usually obvious enough to a "meatware" processor, usually very accurately, whereas algorithms in software are rarely worth the time taken to encode them.

    40. Re:Insightful fact... by DudeTheMath · · Score: 1

      The problem, of course, is when the student "fill[s] in a little around it" with someone else's words. My wife, a professor of English lit, just found (yesterday!) a student who had copied much of er paper from two sources, quoted some bits, and changed a word here and there (perhaps hoping it would be enough to throw off a simple Google query) outside the quotes.

      The astute professor, having some familiarity with the sources, instead looked up the quoted material in Google books to verify the blatant lifting that surrounded the quotes.

      Students who plagiarize don't seem to realize that for little or no more work than they put in to create a plagiarized work (that, even if graded without regard to plagiarism, is usually lousy), they can turn in something crappy but at least original. A "C" (or even a "D") on the paper beats the hell out of an "F" for the course and a permanent black mark on the transcript. They're just rolling the dice, and they don't even know the odds.

      --
      You save only 59 seconds over 8 miles by going 75 instead of 65. Do you really have to pass that guy? Do the Math!
    41. Re:Insightful fact... by DudeTheMath · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The important point when "incorporating research done by someone else into your own" (as BrokenHalo mentions--see, I'm citing my quotation!) is to cite (not necessarily quote) the other someone. This is how I got my A's in college and HS. Failing to do so is plagiarism.

      If you use someone else's idea, you cite it ("Hey, someone else thought of this before me."). That's it. If you use someone else's words, you quote it ("Someone else said 'exactly this'.").

      If you don't use someone's exact words, it makes it harder to spot and/or prove plagiarism, but it doesn't mean you can't be caught. And the brain is an amazing thing: You'd be surprised how often that clever phrase you write two or three days later, regardless of intervening beer, is a nearly exact quote.

      --
      You save only 59 seconds over 8 miles by going 75 instead of 65. Do you really have to pass that guy? Do the Math!
    42. Re:Insightful fact... by SomeoneGotMyNick · · Score: 1

      Or, maybe we just need to put some thought into writing and grading papers. God forbid we have to do some work to generate new ideas. :-)

      What if the paper's intent is not to generate new ideas, but to prove in an essay that you learned something?

      My philosophy professor uses turnitin.com. After getting a low score for NOT using enough quotes to back up my statements in my first weekly paper, I went from 7% "plagiarism" to 20% "plagiarism" by using quotes, according to turnitin. I actually got better grades on the more recent papers.

    43. Re:Insightful fact... by J+Story · · Score: 1

      You really, especially as an undergrad student, have to write all that much. Just quote a bunch of cited sources, and fill in a little around it with your words. Bang..done.

      This used to work fine for me as long as I was using the regular footnoted citations. But recently I've had to use the APA style, and that has made it much harder to cite things to the degree that I think they ought to be, especially in cases where one would otherwise use a lot of "ibid." and "op. cit.". Can anyone shed light on how to follow APA properly for this?

    44. Re:Insightful fact... by SomeoneGotMyNick · · Score: 1

      That just proves what somebody once told me about Philosophy assignments. Philosophy is 75% Bullsh*t and a chair is only showing its "chairdom".

    45. Re:Insightful fact... by B1oodAnge1 · · Score: 1

      Properly cited APA can be a bitch to read, just throw in a citation whenever you think it needs it.

      Over-citation is never as big a problem as under-citation..

      --
      RUGBYRUGBYRUGBY
    46. Re:Insightful fact... by Presto+Vivace · · Score: 1

      I hadn't considered the possibility of false positives, Yikes, I guess students should run their work through these engines just in case.

    47. Re:Insightful fact... by BarefootClown · · Score: 1

      That said, plagiarism is nowadays standard in physics. So is bullying that silences academic freedom (Take, for instance, JPLs bullying to prevent the publication of the fact that its Titan lander photos -- which contain smoke plumes, amazingly enough -- actually are left-right reversed photos of Pearl Harbor, taken from a Japanese plane.).

      [citation needed]

      --

      "Make it ten--I am only a poor corrupt official."
      --Captain Louis Renault (Claude Rains), Casablanca

    48. Re:Insightful fact... by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 1

      How do you know that most professors at colleges across the united states don't have grad students to check papers based on your personal experience at a community college?

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    49. Re:Insightful fact... by Zerth · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think it might be an april fool's day prank, but I found this: http://csma31.csm.jmu.edu/physics/rudmin/titan/titan.htm

    50. Re:Insightful fact... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Community college has different goals than many more serious universities. In my classes at the University of California, I get written up and either LOSE the points the assignment would be worth to my final grade (a 20 point project results in -20 to my grade), or outright fail the class immediately. Those are for more mild forms of cheating, serious plagiarism can and does result in expulsion.

    51. Re:Insightful fact... by samcan · · Score: 1

      With history though, we are supposed to be researching what actually happened. We're not supposed to "make up" events.

      And, if I'm citing my sources, I'm giving acknowledgment to where the information came from.

    52. Re:Insightful fact... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, definitely not the case at my school. School policy is that a student cheating MUST get an F in the class and MUST be reported to the honor council, who can assess other penalties as needed. Also, even if the cheating happens before the drop date (which is 5 weeks in, 8 with a signature from the teacher), the grade sticks.

    53. Re:Insightful fact... by pbaer · · Score: 1

      It's not a fluke, it's convergent evolution. To any problem there's a near infinite amount of bad solutions, but a finite amount of good solutions. This is why competent people solving a problem can come up with similar solutions without collaborating.

      --
      There are 11 types of people, those who know unary and those who don't.
    54. Re:Insightful fact... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      wrote a five page paper about A Tale of Two Cities, with a few lengthy quotes, being a book by Dickens. Since it wasn't a terribly long paper and I had length quotes, I got somewhere around 20% plagiarized.

      It's not plagiarism to include quotes, as long as they're properly marked as such.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    55. Re:Insightful fact... by WastedMeat · · Score: 1
      I TA'ed some physics labs for three semesters, and have busted three students for cheating, which all failed the course and received marks on their transcripts.

      We used turnitin.com, which does provide the original sources that are being plagiarized, and was actually incredibly useful. Two of the students I caught were just recycling their friend's lab report from last year, and catching it would have been unlikely in the absence of such a system. (The students were even told their work would be checked against past lab reports; in my opinion they should have been sterilized as well as expelled.)

      In every case though, yes, the plagiarism score was simply a starting point. Until students start to learn how to write lab reports correctly, the program claims that half of them seriously plagiarize the lab manual, which of course gets them a horrible score, but it does not get them sent to the dean.

    56. Re:Insightful fact... by jbezorg · · Score: 1

      One source = plagiarism
      Two sources = research

      --
      I've lost all my marbles except one & It's fun to test angular & centripetal acceleration in my skull
    57. Re:Insightful fact... by LrdDimwit · · Score: 1

      Exactly; he even said as much -- 90% of the plagiarism that she sees. There is an obvious selection bias at work here; the figure is self-reported from one party of an adversarial relationship.

      However, it is also true that, in general, people plagiarize because it's easy. It takes all of a few minutes to swipe half the text of an article. Taking the time to cleverly and non-obviously plagiarize that same article isn't really all that much quicker than actually writing the term paper properly, with one major exception: one has zero risk of consequences (which are quite severe).

      The anti-cheating measures don't have to catch everybody in order to accomplish their objective (never mind the fact that 100% detection is impossible). All they have to do is change the risk-reward calculation enough to make it not worth trying to cheat. It's sufficient to catch most people using the trivial methods. After all, people with the skills and determination to get around the new measures probably won't get caught no matter what you do anyway.

    58. Re:Insightful fact... by Paltin · · Score: 1

      You are wrong.

      With turnitin, at least, you get a specific, line-by-line list of what the matches are in relation to the submitted work.

      Embarrassing: seeing a student block quote from wikipedia.org.

      Incredibly hilarious: seeing a student block quote from simple.wikipedia.org.

      Run of the mill stupidity: a poster on slashdot creates a transparent strawman, tears it down and gets modded insightful.

    59. Re:Insightful fact... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Are you referring to the fact that the German's didn't actually chase Stalin out of Moscow?

      samcan uses the phrase "They propose that". It could be referring to a plan that was never put into action. It could refer to another article or book written from a "what if" POV.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    60. Re:Insightful fact... by marpot · · Score: 1

      I'd say if you obfuscate something enough it eventually becomes an original. Paraphrases are originals, aren't they?

    61. Re:Insightful fact... by treeves · · Score: 1

      Maybe you should try journalism instead of history.

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    62. Re:Insightful fact... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Deeply obfuscated plagiarism

      I think I'm going to form a band, or rather learn an instrument and form a band, just to use that as an album title.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    63. Re:Insightful fact... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      He should have called each of them in for what used to be called a viva - more or less an interview. It ought to be obvious if they understand what they're doing or not.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    64. Re:Insightful fact... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      The app I used not only told you what the plagiarized source was, but also gave you the passage that was plagiarized from.

      That's output, which is put out, and therefore isn't in the box, because it's out, by virtue of having been put there. It's completely irrelevant to the hue, opacity and albedo of the aforementioned box.

      These detectors are not black boxes at all.

      A black box (in the computing context) means a system where you can't see the mechanism or algorithm inside. You can't see how it produced the output, only what it did.

      Now if you're using such an app that means you're a teacher? Anyone else find that worrying?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    65. Re:Insightful fact... by severoon · · Score: 1

      Of course, I was being facetious to prove a point. But the point is—if a student did this and were completely honest about it in terms of citing the source of the ideas, a good percentage of the time the professor would chastise them for not demonstrating any original thought. Despite the fact that this student would understand the material and all of the most important aspects of the work, as well as what the various ideas swirling around it in academia, to a far greater degree than other students that plow through the entire original work without much of a clue regarding what they read.

      I'm not saying people shouldn't cite their sources...I'm saying when they do what they need to do to understand the material, they should be allowed to be honest about it. Heck, they should be encouraged to do this sort of thing if it helps solidify the material.

      --
      but have you considered the following argument: shut up.
    66. Re:Insightful fact... by samcan · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I should have clarified.

      I wrote the paper discussing the history and various counterfactual scenarios. The "they propose" was referring to a counterfactual scenario written by Oleinikov and Kudryashov, where they propose a history where Hitler did manage to push all the way to Moscow, and eliminate senior Red Army leadership in the process.

    67. Re:Insightful fact... by snowgirl · · Score: 1

      There was a plagiarism detection system that I actually learned a bit about. The process used latent-semantic analysis. Oddly enough, it was capable of detecting plagiarism even when the person had paraphrased everything, because it actually used huge mathematical matrices to assign semantic meaning to words. It was therefore capable of distinguishing variations of words, not just words themselves.

      The method also way an automatic grading system, because it was capable of telling if the student was using words consistently with source texts (too "consistent" and it registered as plagiarism).

      The most interesting analysis that I read spoke about two methods for cheating the system. If one knew the field incredibly well, one could construct a bogus text that would be graded well. However, by far, the easiest way to cheat the system, was simply to write a good paper. After all, if in order to produce a bad paper with a good grade one had to understand the topic better than if one were to write a good paper... then such a person deserves an A!!!

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
    68. Re:Insightful fact... by mgblst · · Score: 1

      I worked at one of the major Australia Universities, in the Mathematics department. Marking some students computing assignments, I pickups up conclusive evidence of cheating, where users just changed variable names. There were about 6 people involved in this. This head of the dept didn't care, and didn't even want me to penalize these students. Sure, it was only a small assignments, and the Exam was worth much more of the grade, but I was disappointed in this result.

    69. Re:Insightful fact... by SlashWombat · · Score: 1

      Surely, the use of turnitin is being used by lazy teachers trying to avoid actually reading the work turned in by students. Imagine the dreary task of reading hundreds of (mostly) poorly written essays on some dry and essentially unimportant aspect of history. No wonder so many teachers are "eccentric" types.

    70. Re:Insightful fact... by MickLinux · · Score: 1

      http://csma31.csm.jmu.edu/physics/rudmin/titan/titan.htm [jmu.edu]

      I will note that the author is *not* me, but I am quite aware of the situation.

      Actually, I didn't want to cite it, because the author is the target of JPL. At a different conference, another JMU employee had a reasonable question, and JPL started harranguing them "oh, you're from that conspiracy nut university..." and so on. So after enough targeting, the JMU professor asked his boss what to do, and his boss said "I'd prefer if you just let this die."

      In other words, academic freedom and the search for truth is snuffed. *Very* related to Hayak's book, if you ask me. According to Hayak, typically, when socialism goes to complete control, all truth goes out the window, and the only judgement to be made is "how does this support loyalty to the government plan?". So if it is against communism, or not specifically shown to be in support of communism [or the myths that determine current communist thought], then it needs to be silenced. Likewise, if it doesn't serve the interests of National Socialism [Nazi], then it is to be silenced.

      Anyhow, all that also came after the author found a 1% error in JPLs predicted orbits of venus, causing NASA to cancel their contract the JPL to provide the predictions, until JPL fixed it. Again, the author represents a threat to JPL, and so must be silenced. And since JPL is much closer to the seat of power than the university, the silencing works. In other words, the author is academically reasonable, and should not be subject to silencing (were academia performing properly).

      --
      Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
    71. Re:Insightful fact... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See my reply slightly off this secondary thread.

      http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1214701&cid=27757483

      The link -- which another person provided you before my reply -- is quite interesting, in that it demonstrates plagiarism in high places.

      When the author brought it to the attention of the lower JPL people, they thought it was neat, and funny.

      When the director of JPL got wind of it, he went into full attack mode.

      I've posted more info in the other reply, though.

    72. Re:Insightful fact... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Maybe you should learn to recognise a subjunctive?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    73. Re:Insightful fact... by Maximum+Prophet · · Score: 1

      The best cheaters have names like Shakespeare and Heinlein. File off the serial numbers, change the body lines a bit, give it a new paint job, switch it over the state line, and it's yours!

      --
      All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
    74. Re:Insightful fact... by Maximum+Prophet · · Score: 1

      I heard Brian Kernighan at a lecture talk about this. He and another researcher created the exact same 12 line subroutine once.

      Arthur Clarke and Charles Sheffield published science fiction stories that introduced space elevators within 6 months of each other. Since the 2nd was written before the 1st was published, there's no way either could have copied from the other.

      --
      All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
    75. Re:Insightful fact... by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      The irony of this is that most actual "learning" in college consists of

      a) Loading vasts amounts of information really quickly.
      b) forgetting all of it to make room for next semester.

      I could probably relearn it easier but I can't even recall how to derive off the top of my head these days and that's pretty basic stuff.
      And I aced a very hard calc test back in the day*

      ---

      Funny story, the three of us in our study group put in about 27 hours the week before. As a clever idea, we decided to study every example problem in the text book to the point where we could say the *answer* and state the problem and write the solution backwards from the answer to the problem.

      Well, the other two guys walked into Dr. Steppe's class who had cleverly made every question on the test an example problem from the book. I still did extremely well-- finished in a half hour dnd aced it- but my study buds literally finished the midterm in under 5 minutes and made 105 and 104 respectively.

      extremely funny. even the professor was amused (and i think pleased that they had studied so hard for his class).

      Part of the reason I had to study so hard was that Dr Gumpel had basically failed everyone on the first test-- said there would be no curve so there was no way any of us could make an "A" any more (so all the honors students on the first row dropped immediately). In the end the pressure was so intense that she reconsidered and curved after all.

      My experiece was that every class was on a curve- whether they said it or not. They were not permitted to give out more than 15% "A"'s and they were usually not permitted to fail 90% of the students (tho one class did fail 75 out of 80 but that was a different issue-- accreditation related)

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    76. Re:Insightful fact... by treeves · · Score: 1

      You should learn to recognize a joke.

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    77. Re:Insightful fact... by Golddess · · Score: 1

      An example is shown below (words in bold are supposedly plagiarized from one source, words in italics from another):

      Thus, the Founding Fathers wanted to create a government that was stable, and protected the rights of the people.

      How the hell do you plagiarize a single fucking word??? That?? And????

      Or am I grossly misunderstanding, and it considered the phrase "the Founding Fathers to create a that and" to be plagiarized from somewhere?

      --
      "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
    78. Re:Insightful fact... by samcan · · Score: 1

      I wish I knew.

      What is interesting is that it didn't flag every single instance of the word "that" or "and."

    79. Re:Insightful fact... by Erwos · · Score: 1

      First, not a teacher. We're provided use of the application for checking our own work.

      Second: the term "black box" would be appropriate if the output was a simple percentage of plagiarism with no explanation. By revealing _how_ that number was come to, the internal process of the box to derive it has been revealed (which is to say, it's comparing your work to a lot of other work in the app's DB). "Black box" is a purely colloquial term with no single formal definition - calling me out on using it is ludicrous.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_box

      --
      Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
  2. Here is my perosnal take on the article... by svendsen · · Score: 4, Funny

    Does your school/university check your homeworks/theses for plagiarism? Nowadays, probably Yes, but are they doing it properly? Little is known about plagiarism detection accuracy, which is why we conduct a competition on plagiarism detection, sponsored by Yahoo! We have set up a corpus of artificial plagiarism which contains plagiarism with varying degrees of obfuscation, and translation plagiarism from Spanish or German source documents. A random plagiarist was employed who attempts to obfuscate his plagiarism with random sequences of text operations, e.g., shuffling, deleting, inserting, or replacing a word. Translated plagiarism is created using machine translation

    1. Re:Here is my perosnal take on the article... by rainmayun · · Score: 1

      You forgot to translate it into Swedish.... or ROT-13.

    2. Re:Here is my perosnal take on the article... by MadKeithV · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's encrypted with double ROT-13.

    3. Re:Here is my perosnal take on the article... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The original mods were correct.

      Your comment was the same joke as the one made above you, therefore it is a redundant joke.

    4. Re:Here is my perosnal take on the article... by snarfies · · Score: 1

      Does your college check your theses/homeworks for plagiarism? Nowadays, probably so, but are they doing it correctly? Not much is known about the accuracy of plagiarism detection, which is why we conduct a competition on plagiarism detection, which was sponsored by Yahoo! We have set up a body of fake plagiarism which consists of plagiarism with varying degrees of translation plagiarism from Spanish or German source documents and obfuscation. A randomly selected plagiarist was used who tries to cover her plagiarism with random sequences of text changes, e.g., deleting, inserting, replacing, or shuffling some words. Translated plagiarism is made using computerized translation.

    5. Re:Here is my perosnal take on the article... by El_Muerte_TDS · · Score: 1

      Does your school verify his thesis / homeworks of plagiarism? Today, probably, but they are done properly? Not much is known about the accuracy of detection of plagiarism, which is why we carry out a competition in the detection of plagiarism, which was sponsored by Yahoo! We created a body that is false plagiarism plagiarism plagiarism with varying degrees of translation from Spanish or German source documents and obfuscation. A randomly selected plagiarist who was trying to cover his theft with random sequences of changes of text, for example, delete, insert, replace, or shuffling a few words. Plagiarism is translated by computer translation.

    6. Re:Here is my perosnal take on the article... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is your school / university to verify your homework / essay plagiarism? Now, perhaps, but their rights? Little is known about the accuracy of detection of plagiarism, which is why we are testing a plagiarism contest, sponsored by Yahoo! We implemented a series of plagiarism plagiarism containing more or less artificial wind, plagiarism and translations from the Spanish or German origin. Arab employees who are trying to cover plagiarism plagiarized his business with a random sequence of text, such as bats, delete, insert or change a word. Creating pagsasalin plagiarism using automatic translation.

    7. Re:Here is my perosnal take on the article... by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      The issue I have with Plagiarism. Has been the Degree of Sin it implies. Espectially with Undergrad and Grad work that isn't published. If you are found that you forgot to quote or site a quote you could get kicked out of college. If you are found with drugs or have done a violent act on campus you may loose your on campus housing. I am weak at witting myself, it takes me a long time to even write a single page paper (1 to 2 hours), so after I have wrote the paper, I need to put all my effort into making sure I am not plagiarizing any information, vs. Checking for content flow, grammar and spelling. So I may get a C on an A amount of work and learned information because of writing issues, it is better then getting kicked out of school for forgetting to site a paragraph.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    8. Re:Here is my perosnal take on the article... by xenocide2 · · Score: 1

      1-2 hours for a single page paper is probably reasonable to earn an A. At some level, it's about the content, not the length. But this nonsense about "Oops I forgot I was plagiarizing" won't stand. Cite your sources whether you're quoting or not; it's important to do and validates your arguments to some degree.

      If you're not allowed to use sources, don't use sources.

      --
      I Browse at +4 Flamebait

      Open Source Sysadmin

    9. Re:Here is my perosnal take on the article... by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      The 1-2 hours is because I have a difficult time writing, Vowels sound very simuler err um similar to me, making even a one page paper a hassle to write, as the spell checker will tell me the word is wrong but not give me the alternative. So I need to spend minutes hunting and and retyping (trying a bunch of Vowel combinations) just to get threw the spell checker, so with that time and effort if they are just going on content I can normally get a B out of it. But my point is it really just to kick someone out of school for plagiarizing, vs. properly deduct points for the degree of the error. I agree with not trying to plagiarize, but to kick people out of school for a forgotten paragraph, or a distraction from your work (college is full of those) had you miss a citation, seems extreme to me. Sure deduct 30% for a missed citation, or fail that paper. But to kick someone from school and mess up their future. For a mistake, especially on an undergrad paper which will never be published or seen or referenced in the future.

      It isn't I forgot I was plagiarizing, it was more of an issue, I forgot to follow the technical steps for witting a paper.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    10. Re:Here is my perosnal take on the article... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The 1-2 hours is because I have a difficult time writing, Vowels sound very simuler err um similar to me, making even a one page paper a hassle to write, as the spell checker will tell me the word is wrong but not give me the alternative.

      You need to spend a lot more time in English classes, then. It's up to you whether you want to struggle with written communication all your life, but it tends to be a big part of business.

      (You also need a better spellchecker.)

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    11. Re:Here is my perosnal take on the article... by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Yea thanks, not like I heard that before. It is something I always struggle with. I have 11 years of business experience I am about 80% done with my masters, part time. Writing will not come naturally to me, even if I do it all the time, which I do. I know the theory however Vowel sounds sound the same to me. Espectially when they are in multi-salable words. Because of that I tend to misspell them way off that Linux spell checker is useless an MS Office is bad at guessing.
       

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  3. My solution is the best. by Roskolnikov · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Not only will my solution find those rascally cheaters in record time, it will also determine that all others in the competition have copied my work.

    --
    Unix, an obscure operating system developed by bored researchers in an attempt to get a better game playing experience.
  4. Defeat Plagerism by zoomshorts · · Score: 0

    Simply disallow the use of words.

    Vice President Biden, are you listening???

    1. Re:Defeat Plagerism by gnick · · Score: 5, Funny

      Simply using words would not constitute plagiarism. You just can't allow students to use words that somebody else has used before.

      For more information of this technique, please read my recent paper, Clickous Verandim Redundo Berata Quizzomandus.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    2. Re:Defeat Plagerism by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      Plagiarizing Butthead's comment on the Melvins:
      "Huh, Huh, those words are cool."

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    3. Re:Defeat Plagerism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bet you didn't do a quick Google search for those words. Over 200 results for the first word.

    4. Re:Defeat Plagerism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      erm http://rompa.mybrute.com/

    5. Re:Defeat Plagerism by gnick · · Score: 1

      Wow - I have now. Redundo's got >95,000 hits and Berata has >60,000. Quizzomandus is the only "word" without hits.

      Obviously, a lot of people have been plagiarizing my paper. Many of them started, apparently, before I was even born - Naming companies and such to cash in on my future fame.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    6. Re:Defeat Plagerism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Neal Stephenson, is that you?

    7. Re:Defeat Plagerism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clickous: 218 hits on google
      Verandim: 7 hits on google
      Redundo: 93,000 hits on google
      Berata: 53,400 hits on google
      Quizzomandus: 2 hits on google (both on slashdot) ;)

      You get a grade of F.

  5. Plagarism.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    I think the hardest plagiarism to spot is one where you copy the main idea but you put everything into your own sentence. The main reason is that semantics is still an open problem in AI.

    1. Re:Plagarism.. by wstrucke · · Score: 1

      There are very few, if any, original ideas in the scheme of things. AFAIK the point of writing most "papers" in high school/college is to describe an idea or support a thesis -- either way, you are probably not the first person (or the only person) who thinks X.

      If you are not plagiarizing then you should be the only one who supports or describes the idea the way you do.

    2. Re:Plagarism.. by furby076 · · Score: 1

      Taking someones own work and then rephrasing it into your own work is plagiarism? I remember teachers telling me that ingesting someone's data and spitting out the data in your own words is not plagiarism. That's how research is done - you read about stuff and you spit it out. Sometimes you cite specific passages, other times you site sources you referenced.

      --

      I do not support "The Man". I also do not support your irrational stupidity
    3. Re:Plagarism.. by Erwos · · Score: 1

      Depends on the degree it's being done. Search the Internets for "plagiarism paraphrasing" - it should be enlightening.

      --
      Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
    4. Re:Plagarism.. by Brewmeister_Z · · Score: 1

      I have the same thought about writing papers... sorry, I must be plagiarizing you.

      Many of the papers I had to write required citing someone credible to back up your position. The school I went to used APA format so the plagiarism check basically looked at that referenced source and showed where you cited it so it was more of a APA format check. I hate the idea of paraphrasing and then still giving credit to someone else so I would quote the source most of the time.

      So what do you do when you actually have an original idea but yet need include cited material? Most likely you end up using sources out of context to support you idea and then give someone else credit.

      Then there is the whole issue of whether something is common knowledge...

      --
      I Cater to the Needs of Stupid People. - from a coffee mug Christmas gift
    5. Re:Plagarism.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      citation needed^^

      Stating made up facts, supplemented with weak anecdotes, makes for a mildly amusing read at best.

    6. Re:Plagarism.. by samcan · · Score: 1

      Technically, yes.

      Whenever you use an author's thought on the idea, you need to cite.

      There are exceptions for common knowledge...for example, you don't need to cite that the sky is blue.

    7. Re:Plagarism.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that the sky is blue.

      Citation needed. I'm in Los Angeles, you insensitive clod!

    8. Re:Plagarism.. by vertinox · · Score: 1

      I think the hardest plagiarism to spot is one where you copy the main idea but you put everything into your own sentence. The main reason is that semantics is still an open problem in AI.

      I really never understood this in paper writing for most college students. I don't know about you, but I never came up with any radically new idea while going to college. I may have wrote papers explaining an opinion or an idea and then showing facts that back that up, but over all, everything I wrote was basically (in the end) other people's ideas and books which though I did not plagiarism, used to "regurgitate" ideas that pre-existed before me.

      And to that end, I have a hunch that the majority of people who do write papers on topics do the same thing or we would all be amazing in the fact we created new ideas without any help from any other source.

      In fact, I would dare say anyone who wrote a paper with no sources other than the authors own ideas and experimentation and even though he might have hit on something amazingly unique, new and correct, that he would be failed for lack of citing previous sources.

      The entire research world basically is built on the works of people prior and it is almost impossible these days (except those in theoretical research with the tools to create the experiments themselves)

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
  6. Easy solution by gnick · · Score: 1

    Oesday ouryay oolschay/universitysay eckchay ouryay omeworkshay/esesthay orfay agiarismplay?

    As long as your prof accepts foreign language papers, you're golden. Or, find a paper that you want to rip off written in German/French/Spanish/whatever and dump it through babelfish:

    Your school/university controls your homeworks/teses plagiat?

    --
    He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    1. Re:Easy solution by Petrushka · · Score: 1

      Or, find a paper that you want to rip off written in German/French/Spanish/whatever and dump it through babelfish:

      "Easy"? Your procedure has three steps: Finding the paper, putting it through babelfish, and editing the result into good English. Step 2 is the only easy bit -- steps 1 and 3 combined would be considerably more work than just writing the damn paper!

    2. Re:Easy solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're expecting results no better than:

      Your school/university controls your homeworks/teses plagiat?

      Then yes, it's easy.

  7. Hmmm.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Given that many, many teachers give out broadly similar assignments all over the country, how many years it will be until most possible ways of talking, say, of what Dante meant in a certain canto in the Inferno, will be in the database and will make it impossible to write a paper without being suspected of plagiarizing? Especially if the system runs with a very low threshold (say, 3-4 words in a row that are the same = plagiarizing)

    It would really be interesting if all the published books on one particular subject (again, say, the Divine Comedy) were submitted to this service and a check was run about just how much 'plagiarizing' and 'original thinking' there is going around...

    1. Re:Hmmm.... by wstrucke · · Score: 1

      True -- I had the same thought myself in fact. Eventually the database will reach a threshold where the majority of ways of describing something will be "used" already.

      I do not agree, however, that teachers will blindly accept the results of the computer. Some may, and I hope that parents and administrators raise hell when they do. Most teachers and users of the system should be intelligent enough to know that student A in their class did not copy three lines verbose from a paper written ten years before on the other side of the country.

      I do not necessarily agree with the use of this system and the potential for abuse, but I do believe the idea is sound if applied appropriately.

    2. Re:Hmmm.... by leonardluen · · Score: 1

      the distinction of being on "the other side of the country" doesn't mean a whole lot with the internet.

    3. Re:Hmmm.... by shawn(at)fsu · · Score: 1

      So basically everything that can be written has been written?
      It depends like you said on the threshold but their are other forces at work. Esp when you are catching the most stupid of plagiarism. For example in my courts class in college we had to do case briefs of famous supreme court rulings. The kid who sat next to me asked for an extension for one and was give a few more days to work on it. For him working on it meant copying whole sections verbatim from one of our textbooks. Yeah he got caught, and no it wasn't hard to prove. Some students might be more crafty than others but for the most part I think you could catch the large majority of them. If their is doubt the professor could always ask them to explain something, for example: "What did you mean by this part?" or by comparing results to essays on tests where you don't have an oppertunity to get a paper of the internet. /yes I know He didn't really say everything that can be invented has been invented.

      --
      500 dollar reward for tip(s) leading to the arrest of the person(s) who stole my sig.
    4. Re:Hmmm.... by adonoman · · Score: 1

      Just wait until I publish my paper: An Enumeration of All Possible English Phrase Permutations of Length 5-10 Words. It's quite an epic read.

      a aa aaa aal aaas
      a aa aaa aal aachen
      a aa aaa aal aafp
      a aa aaa aal aah
      a aa aaa aal aahed
      a aa aaa aal aahing
      a aa aaa aal aahs ...

      zym zymase zymases zymo zymogen zymogens zymogram zymograms zymosan zymosans

      * Note that the above sample is copyrighted and any attempts at plagiarism will be dealt with.

    5. Re:Hmmm.... by wstrucke · · Score: 1

      the distinction of being on "the other side of the country" doesn't mean a whole lot with the internet.

      My point is that the results of any computer evaluation must be looked at critically and intelligently. It would be an abuse of the system to blindly accept results and punish students.

      It's a natural part of the system that some material or ideas will appear to be plagiarized -- it's up to the instructor based on the content, structure, and syntax of the paper to determine if it was indeed copied or just an unfortunate choice of words by the student.

    6. Re:Hmmm.... by westlake · · Score: 1
      how many years it will be until most possible ways of talking, say, of what Dante meant in a certain canto in the Inferno, will be in the database

      To me that seems superficial.

      The instructor should be asking if you are using the canto effectively to buttress your own argument. You need to be consistent. You need to be plausible. You need to be passionate. You need to speak in a single voice.

      That is why the oral exam can be so devastating.

    7. Re:Hmmm.... by samcan · · Score: 1

      It's like the theory of the bunch of monkeys typing the complete works of Shakespeare.

    8. Re:Hmmm.... by Shagg · · Score: 1

      So basically everything that can be written has been written?

      Google "everything that can be written has been written", 388 results.

      You plagiarist! :)

      --
      Unix is user friendly, it's just selective about who its friends are.
    9. Re:Hmmm.... by FearForWings · · Score: 1

      So long as you don't go on to iterate through all the names of god

      --
      I don't know about angles, but it's fear that gives men wings. -Max Payne
  8. Plausible test? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Now, I understand that plagiarism is common among the weakest of undergrad writers; but "machine translation from Spanish or German source documents" and "random text operations" seem like unrealistic experimental stimuli.

    In order to be a success, a plagiarized paper has to survive scrutiny by automated systems, if any are deployed, and human graders, if any are paying attention. Machine translation and text mangling should trivially defeat automated systems, at least any that aren't cranked well into World o' false positives territory; but would they pass human scrutiny? Even if they did, handing in something produced by machine translation and text mangling would probably earn you a referral to "Remedial English 101 For Life".

    1. Re:Plausible test? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, this is a brilliant technique!
      If you are savvy enough in another language to find a relevant paper, you run it through the machine translator, and clean it up to the point where it is in acceptable English. Not only do you save the work of actually crafting a paper from scratch, but the during cleanup you'll probably learn enough to get a pass on any related tests!

    2. Re:Plausible test? by marpot · · Score: 1

      It's true, random text operations are not all too realistic. However, if a tool manages to find all of the randomly created cases accurately if will definitely find the subset of texts that are also human-readable.

  9. monkeys on a typewriter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    if you submit enough essays to a plagerism database wouldn't you eventually run into every paper submited turning up as plagerised? that's what i never understood about english departments buying into this let it go for a few decades and if they decide to copyright there databases and make them publicly available that could be a funny buisness model though

    1. Re:monkeys on a typewriter by marpot · · Score: 1

      No, simply because near-duplicate texts of sufficient length are not written accidentally independent of one another. Take the comments on this page as an example: Although many discuss the same arguments I bet you won't find 10 words in row which appear twice.

  10. Mod erudition test by pjt33 · · Score: 1

    Accuse me of plagiarism and I'll publish a book about that little matter involving you and a pawnbroker.

  11. It's not that hard... by XPeter · · Score: 1

    Copy and paste some of the text of the suspected document into Google. If something with the same or similar wording comes up, it's plagiarized. Simple.

    --
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits" - Albert Einstein
    1. Re:It's not that hard... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Copy and paste some of the text of the suspected document into Google. If something with the same or similar wording comes up, it's plagiarized. Simple!

    2. Re:It's not that hard... by maxwell+demon · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Copy and paste some of the document's text into a search machine. If something with about the same wording comes up, it's plagiarized. Simple!

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    3. Re:It's not that hard... by wstrucke · · Score: 1

      ...assuming that every document ever written was online and indexed by Google. Kinda seems like shooting in the dark. maybe you hit something, maybe you don't -- missing doesn't mean there's not something there and only provides a false sense of security.

    4. Re:It's not that hard... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It wasn't that funny the first time, so it really wasn't funny this time.

      Please go die in a fire.

    5. Re:It's not that hard... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Copy and paste some of the document's text into a search machine. If something with about the same wording comes up, it's plagiarized. Simple!

  12. Another Insightful fact... by Serenissima · · Score: 1

    Award

    Yahoo! Research will award a cash prize of 500 Euros to the winner of the competition.

    Wow, 500 Euros for solving a problem that every single college in the world would pay good money to have? Sounds like a gyp for the guy who wins.

    "Yeah, thanks for spending time and effort to solve this complex problem. Here's your 500 Euros. Now we're going to go sell that pants off of this and make millions. Have a nice day!"

    --
    Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. But light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
    1. Re:Another Insightful fact... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But that would be plagiarism! D:

  13. Irony by Shadow+Wrought · · Score: 4, Funny

    Just imagine everyone's surprise when all the entrants turn in the exact same process.

    --
    If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
    1. Re:Irony by marpot · · Score: 1

      There's only so much that can be down with current plagiarism detection approaches. We definitely expect similar approaches from unrelated participants.

  14. Detecting Design by geoffrobinson · · Score: 1

    I thought detecting design wasn't science. I guess that only applies if we don't like the implications of a possible "yes." Otherwise, it can be science.

    --
    Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
    1. Re:Detecting Design by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      I thought detecting design wasn't science. I guess that only applies if we don't like the implications of a possible "yes." Otherwise, it can be science.

      Like answering any other question of fact, answering the question "is this outcome the result of design?" can be science, if it is done using the scientific method.

      Deliberately ignoring empirical evidence and making "ooh, that seems hard, it must be design" arguments, as is done in the most popular "detecting design" effort that is dismissed as not being science is, indeed, not science.

  15. Make plagarism harder than writing original work. by gyroidben · · Score: 1

    It's always going to be possible to plagarise but as long as it's more difficult that actually writing original work it's not so much of a problem. Translating from a foreign language (even with the help of an automatic translator) is probably more work than just writing the work yourself. Swapping a whole bunch of words probably also requires comparable effort if you don't want it too sound too silly.

  16. My solution is better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just go to the University of Delaware. The penalty for plagiarism is the vice-presidency.

  17. Avoiding plagiarism? by tepples · · Score: 1

    When George Harrison wrote the song "My Sweet Lord" for his solo debut album, he accidentally plagiarized a Ronald Mack song. He ended up losing a million dollar lawsuit over it. What should he have done to avoid plagiarizing any of the millions of songs that had been written before then?

    1. Re:Avoiding plagiarism? by Stratocastr · · Score: 0

      avoid the G-C-D chord progression.

      --
      Slashdot - I went there to fix their grammar that they're so bad at.
    2. Re:Avoiding plagiarism? by gnick · · Score: 1

      Just a side note - George Harrison/Ronald Mack is a much better example of musical plagiarism than what sprang to my mind.

      Damn you xkcd. You've ruined me.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
  18. Duplicated code by tcopeland · · Score: 1

    A while back I worked on a program to find duplicated code - CPD (copy/paste detector). It discards comments and whitespace and (optionally) normalizes variable names... but probably wouldn't deal well with tokens being moved around. There's a chapter on it in my PMD book, too.

    What was interesting were some of the performance optimizations that folks came up with. My first version used JavaSpaces to distribute the computation - but subsequent versions (thanks to Brian Ewins and Steve Hawkins) were fast enough to run on one just machine. Good times.

  19. Plagiarism detection is easy by DingerX · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A plagiarised paper just smells bad, and is characterized by shifts in voices and writing styles, sudden ignorance of the the critical points raised earlier. The same author who can't write a grammatically correct sentence one moment is throwing down complex constructions the next The harder part is identifying the source of the plagiarism. For undergraduate papers, even the harder part is trivial. After all, the point of plagiarism is that the author is too lazy to write anything original.

    For academics (professors), the situation isn't all that different. Plagiarism is usually a mix of stupidity, laziness and pressure to get stuff done. It usually happens where big, popularizing authors try to rip off the obscure ones (go back twenty years a la Mr. Ambrose, or pick something in a different language, preferably Italian), or when someone needs a book in an obscure field, and tries to pirate something really obscure.

    Even so, if a plagiarist has enemies who give a damn, they can find the source fairly fast. So why construct a test for the most obfuscated cases, when a plagiarist clever enough to obfuscate could simply write something original and sufficiently clever?

    1. Re:Plagiarism detection is easy by Erwos · · Score: 1

      Very true. My wife reviews proposals at her work from time to time, and she has gotten surprisingly good at detecting which ones are doing wholesale plagiarizing. I suspect she'd probably miss it if it was a sentence or two, but some of these idiots are doing whole pages of it.

      --
      Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
    2. Re:Plagiarism detection is easy by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      I get the distinct impression that most of the interest in automated plagiarism detection has little to do with circumstances where writers are writing to actually be read, and more to do with ensuring Compliance among high school students and undergrads in big lecture courses.

      As you say, if somebody actually reads it, it won't be too hard to detect. If the somebody reading has an ongoing familiarity with the writer's style, it'll be even easier. What they want, though, is something that can skip that step and just make sure that a whole bunch of students obeyed instructions at the lowest possible cost.

    3. Re:Plagiarism detection is easy by zolltron · · Score: 1

      It's not so easy as you think. People can often modify the apparent plagiarism my changing words around, substituting synonyms, adding in extra words. Then you have to search for different parts of the sentence, considering different wordings. Sometimes people purchase papers from their friends or a service who never posted their paper online.

      When you have a class of 100 students with 2-3 potential plagarism cases, it can take significant time to track down. All this is taking away from time the instructor could be giving helpful feedback to students who are interested in learning.

      The services that exist now are already very good at saving time by focusing one's attention on particular cases that can be proven. If those tools get better it can reduce that time even more. Overall this will significantly improve the quality of education by both freeing up time and also preventing the incentive to cheat yourself out of an education by plagarizing.

    4. Re:Plagiarism detection is easy by Rageon · · Score: 1

      The harder part is identifying the source of the plagiarism. For undergraduate papers, even the harder part is trivial.

      Wouldn't simply requiring authors to cite their sources solve this problem? Yes, it's a pain to cite -- but any form of serious writing should, and usually does, require it. I'm not talking about strictly following BlueBook legal citation rules, but something more than a "list of authorities used".

    5. Re:Plagiarism detection is easy by Thaelon · · Score: 1

      Don't blame laziness!

      Progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things.

      --

      Question everything

    6. Re:Plagiarism detection is easy by Binty · · Score: 1

      Well, the whole point of plagiarism is that the author doesn't want to cite the source. Hell, you can blatantly rip off anything and be ethical if you're simply honest about doing it. There is a huge market for condensing complex arguments into a digest, after all, and that isn't plagiarism. It would be plagiarism if you condensed someone else's argument without giving the original author credit.

      I think it is important to distinguish between the ethics of academic writing, which requires credit where credit is due, and rules governing high-school and college students. An essay that was nothing other than quotations from the NY Times, so long as the NY Times was credited, would be perfectly ethical but it might not comply with whatever rules the students were supposed to follow.

    7. Re:Plagiarism detection is easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The same author who can't write a grammatically correct sentence one moment is throwing down complex constructions the next The harder part is identifying the source of the plagiarism."

      Exactly. Sometimes the constructions and vocabulary is so advanced that you can track it down because the writing is so distinctive. But even if the source isn't identifiable, when that kind of disparity exists from sentence to sentence, paragraph to paragraph, it's obviously plagiarism and a sloppy version at that. Sometimes it is hilarious. One moment they're writing like the most technical, succinct technical paper imaginable, the next they can't get the difference between "there", "their" and "they're" correct, and they're dropping random apostrophes all over the place.

      So, while you're right that obfuscated plagiarism may be quite difficult to detect, the same laziness and lack of capability that motivates plagiarists in the first place means much of it is awful plagiarism anyway.

    8. Re:Plagiarism detection is easy by Whoa314 · · Score: 1

      Apparently my TA from last year's Psych course would disagree. I had a paraphrase with inline parenthetical citation and correct correpsonding full reference at the end of the paper in the "References" section, but since I reused two out of the 10 words constituting the phrase in my paraphrase, it was considered plagiarism, since it wasn't an entire word-for-word quotation in quotation marks.

      Author was fully credited, and the phrase was used for the fact it presented, not for its literary glamour. And yet the TA missed the point entirely and decided to crucify me for the "plagiarism".

  20. patent office by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The patent office should use something like this! Even a simple algorithm should be able to weed out many invalid applications.

  21. What about coincidence and quotation? by Andy_R · · Score: 1

    This isn't a particularly good test of plagiarism detection at all, since the data corpus is computer generated. Real-world plagiarism detection needs to take account of subject matter (correct answers to a physics paper will be less diverse than ones on wide ranging literary topics) and allowable duplication, such as quotations, restatement of the question, citations of sources, etc.

    --
    A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
    1. Re:What about coincidence and quotation? by Millennium · · Score: 1

      A good detection tool understands that some duplication, as with the coincidences and quotations you mention, is going to be inevitable. But such tools also understand that coincidences and quotations can only go so far without raising eyebrows.

      The best a detection tool can do is flag those papers which seem to have an unusually high proportion of duplication -say, 20% or more- and present these to the teacher along with the works most likely to have been plagiarized from. In the end, the teacher needs to make the final judgment call: all these tools can do is red-flag the relatively likely cases.

  22. We could ... by PPH · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... use the same system the US Patent Office uses for finding prior art.

    On second thought, scratch that idea.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re:We could ... by santax · · Score: 1

      Why not? In my own firm I've hired 2 ex-US Patent Office-employees just for this sort of work. Needless to say that in my firm there no longer is any fraud of this kind.This is also confirmed by those 2 employees who have yet to find 1 single case of fraud. So don't tell me it isn't working.

    2. Re:We could ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      there no longer is any fraud of this kind.

      So there was?

      This is also confirmed by those 2 employees who have yet to find 1 single case of fraud.

      But they can't find it?

      So don't tell me it isn't working.

      It isn't working. (I know. You asked me not to tell you that.)

  23. detecting it is easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Calculate an md5 hash of the paper, if it matches the md5 of another, it's plagiarized.

    1. Re:detecting it is easy by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Funny

      And that is why I always change the font and margins on papers that I plagiarize...

    2. Re:detecting it is easy by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      All I do is change the authors name.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    3. Re:detecting it is easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you would be surprised at the sort of "near-duping" technology available in, for example, legal discovery & forensic software. some of them use md5 hashing, some don't, but you wouldn't necessarily need to match an exact duplicate on a document-level basis.

    4. Re:detecting it is easy by Capt.DrumkenBum · · Score: 1

      Yeah, if you don't change the authors name you deserver to be caught.

      --
      If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
  24. Just sell a copy to someone else by wsanders · · Score: 1

    This is a contest to find and expert on plagiarism. If you're a so-called expert and win, sell your software to somebody else and make another 500 Euro.

    --
    Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
    1. Re:Just sell a copy to someone else by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a contest to find and expert on plagiarism. If you're a so-called expert and win, sell your software to somebody else and make another 500 Euro.

      I'm plagiarizing your business plan!

    2. Re:Just sell a copy to someone else by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 0, Redundant

      This is a contest to find and expert on plagiarism. If you're a so-called expert and win, sell your software to somebody else and make another 500 Euro.

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
  25. i don't get why you would do this by llamapater · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's a monkeys on a typewriter thing. these companies add papers to there database as they compare them. If you feed enough papers into a database eventually they will all come back plagiarized there are not an infinite number of possible term papers there are only so many things that could be written for a topic that make sense, and most English teachers recycle topics. why English departments buy into this I don't understand let it go for long enough(it would only take another decade or two at most) and you will start getting people who didn't even know they were plagiarizing getting kicked out of college, I'm not talking about improper citations I'm talking about guy in Washington has the same idea as a guy in New York 20 years later. I'm not a lawyer, so i don't know if this is possible, but couldn't they copyright these databases in some form or render them proprietary. If they did that there business model could change to just collecting royalties.

    1. Re:i don't get why you would do this by smith6174 · · Score: 1

      I think you need to have a serious look at the probabilities involved with your monkeys on a typewriter idea. It shows a complete ignorance of modern statistics and datamining to even suggest that "someday" it will be hard to write original work because it will be compared with many others.

    2. Re:i don't get why you would do this by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      I'd be more interested in a computers ability to scan all these papers on a single subject, combine the points and generate a single paper that covers every possible point.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    3. Re:i don't get why you would do this by Lije+Baley · · Score: 1

      I suspect you have a banana stuck under your Selectric's period key.

      --
      Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
  26. Cheating detection is easy by smith6174 · · Score: 1

    Cheating is pretty easy to detect. I have written cheating detection programs and used them successfully. It is actually surprising how well any sort of longest common subsequence comparison will do in spite of any changes students make. It is always up to a human instructor to verify anything if an accusation is to be made. That being said, cheaters usually produce crappy work anyway. I would have to say that at least in computer science courses you need to be quite talented to get past any of the methods I have designed. Usually more talent is required than simply doing the assignment well. I think cheating is just something humans need to give up on. Like chess, checkers, and properly enforced financial fraud; computers have us beat.

    1. Re:Cheating detection is easy by maxume · · Score: 1

      I suppose. I got a warning from a grader for working in the same computer lab as some other people in the same (small) class (collaboration was tolerated for the class, but it needed to be disclosed). The thing was, we weren't comparing work or discussing anything. So there needs to be some sort of balance.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    2. Re:Cheating detection is easy by smith6174 · · Score: 1

      Your experience is quite common. The last thing an instructor should do when an automated system finds similarity is to accuse a student of misconduct. It is far more informative to have someone do similar work in a more controlled environment. The best way I've found to weed out wrongdoers is to give a far worse grade for one of the similar submissions. The student with the bad grade (if they cheated) almost always slips up and complains that the person they copied from got a better score.

  27. Detecting it? by owlnation · · Score: 1

    Hard to detect in an academic paper, but easy to find on the web. Go to almost any Wikipedia article and you'll find it right there in front of you. Especially any article on a movie -- almost are are ripped directly from imdb.

    1. Re:Detecting it? by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 1

      ...and the IMDB article is ripped directly from a review, and the review is based on the Movie companies website, etc ....

      --
      Puteulanus fenestra mortis
  28. double translated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Does your school / university check your homework / theses for plagiarism? Today, probably yes, but they do it right? If little is known about plagiarism detection accuracy, which is why we have a competition on plagiarism detection, sponsored Yahoo! We have an artificial body of plagiarism plagiarism, with varying degrees of concealment and plagiarism translation from Spanish or German source documents. plagiarist was random, trying to disguise his plagiarism with random sequences of text operations such as mixing, deleting, inserting or replacing a word. Translated plagiarism is with machine translation. "

  29. Too many false positives by russotto · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I once was on a Fido forum with someone who would often write responses nearly word-for-word identical to mine. It was uncanny; I'd see his post and recognize my own writing, only to realize it wasn't mine. Timestamps would sometimes show my post was written first, sometimes his. I imagine some others on the forum thought at least one of us was a sock puppet, but neither of us was.

    (If he's on slashdot, he's probably composing a post just like this one)

    That probably happens rarely. But build a big enough database, and it will happen often. Particularly given the restricted problem domains in undergraduate papers. It's not just a computer problem; even humans will think "plagiarism" when they see two papers with similar ideas and similar turns of phrase. Which I think demonstrates that plagiarism cannot be established satisfactorily merely by showing similarity between papers.

    1. Re:Too many false positives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I once was on a Fido forum with someone who would often write responses nearly word-for-word identical to mine. It was uncanny; I'd see his post and recognize my own writing, only to realize it wasn't mine. Timestamps would sometimes show my post was written first, sometimes his. I imagine some others on the forum thought at least one of us was a sock puppet, but neither of us was.

      (If he's on slashdot, he's probably composing a post just like this one)

      That probably happens rarely. But build a big enough database, and it will happen often. Particularly given the restricted problem domains in undergraduate papers. It's not just a computer problem; even humans will think "plagiarism" when they see two papers with similar ideas and similar turns of phrase. Which I think demonstrates that plagiarism cannot be established satisfactorily merely by showing similarity between papers.

    2. Re:Too many false positives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was once on a Fido forum with someone who would often write responses nearly word-for-word identical to mine. It was uncanny; I'd see his post and recognize my own writing, only to realize it wasn't mine. Sometimes the timestamps would show my post was written first, sometimes his. I imagine some others on the forum thought at least one of us was a sock puppet, but neither of us was.

      (If he's on slashdot, he's probably composing a post just like this one)

      That probably happens rarely, but build a big enough database, and it will happen often. Particularly given the restricted problem domains in undergraduate papers. It's not just a computer problem; even humans will think "plagiarism" when they see two papers with similar ideas and similar turns of phrase. Which I think demonstrates that plagiarism cannot be established satisfactorily merely by showing similarity between papers.

    3. Re:Too many false positives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I once was on a Fido forum with someone who would often write responses nearly word-for-word identical to mine. It was uncanny; I'd see his post and recognize my own writing, only to realize it wasn't mine. Timestamps would sometimes show my post was written first, sometimes his. I imagine some others on the forum thought at least one of us was a sock puppet, but neither of us was.

      That probably happens rarely; but build a big enough database, and it will happen often. Particularly given the restricted problem domains in undergraduate papers. It's not just a computer problem; even humans will think "plagiarism" when they see two papers with similar ideas and similar turns of phrase. Which I think demonstrates that plagiarism cannot be established satisfactorily merely by showing similarity between papers.

    4. Re:Too many false positives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I came here to post exactly this, If a million monkeys on typewrites can produce Shakespeare surely a million students will end up producing similar enough papers that they will end up as false positives. Especially given the constraints students need to work under, they are give the same topics, the same sources often, and same length and writing guidelines.

      I wouldn't trust any algorithm to detect plagiarism that wasn't open and vetted by experts just as I would not trust any old hashing algorithm with my passwords. The chance of random collision and the cost of the consequences are too high.

    5. Re:Too many false positives by noidentity · · Score: 1

      I once was on a Fido forum with someone who would often write responses nearly word-for-word identical to mine. It was uncanny; I'd see his post and recognize my own writing, only to realize it wasn't mine. Timestamps would sometimes show my post was written first, sometimes his. I imagine some others on the forum thought at least one of us was a sock puppet, but neither of us was.

      How can you be sure, Mr. Deckard? Failed any CAPTCHAs recently?

    6. Re:Too many false positives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem

      It's unlikely that that would happen before the heat death of the universe.

    7. Re:Too many false positives by russotto · · Score: 1

      How can you be sure, Mr. Deckard? Failed any CAPTCHAs recently?

        Yeah, I was trying to download something from Google Books. I swore it said "android", but my wife claimed it said "replicant". Neither worked. Showed it to a neighbor and he passed it with "human". That means the estate of Philip K. Dick is suing him instead, so it's just as well.

      BTW, to the ACs duplicating my original post: The way to do it would be to post at the same level as mine, not as a reply to mine; the latter sort of gives the game away. Oh, and it would be more impressive if you'd posted before me... at least to me.

    8. Re:Too many false positives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I once was on a Fido forum with someone who would often write responses nearly word-for-word identical to the one I wrote. It was uncanny; I'd see his post and recognize my own writing, only to realize it wasn't mine. Timestamps would sometimes show my post was written first, sometimes his. I imagine some others on the forum thought at least one of us was a sock puppet, but neither of us was.

      (If he's on slashdot, he's probably composing a post just like this one)

      That probably happens rarely. But build a big enough database, and it will happen often. Particularly given the restricted problem domains in undergraduate papers. It's not just a computer problem; even humans will think "plagiarism" when they see two papers with similar ideas and similar turns of phrase. Which I think demonstrates that plagiarism cannot be established satisfactorily merely by showing similarity between papers.

    9. Re:Too many false positives by noidentity · · Score: 1

      BTW, to the ACs duplicating my original post: [...] it would be more impressive if you'd posted before me... at least to me.

      Typical response from a linear-time human.

  30. Mike Flores. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just ask Mike Flores, he is the world's foremost plagiarism detective.

  31. Require submission of drafts; meet with students by cpu_fusion · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Plagiarism is a symptom of professors only being involved in the last step: reviewing the final product.

    Require the students to submit multiple drafts. Meet with them for 15 minutes each and discuss their thought processes on the ongoing paper. You'll get better final products, teach people not to procrastinate, and smoke-out people who have no involvement in their "own work."

    What, can't do that because you have 60 students in a class? Well, there's part of the problem too.

    We're trying to find a technology solution to a problem with less student-teacher interaction. Typical!

  32. The fingerprint model. by MarkvW · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Law enforcement uses automated fingerprint detection to identify possible matches. It never claims a match based on the computer.

    Using a program as the sole plagiarism judge and jury is profoundly unfair. If a university wants to discipline a student for a plagiarism hit, then it needs to obtain the source document--and pay the source document's creator if necessary to obtain it.

    Confronting the student with the alleged source gives the student a fair chance to defend himself/herself.

  33. The humanities are in trouble. by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Seriously, the humanities are in trouble. With over 6 billion people on the planet, it's extremely difficult to have an original thought. This sets the stage for endless repetition. Add to that the fact that the very process of teaching the humanities usually means imparting a teacher's single interpretation of the source material to the students who then do the natural thing when it comes to writing a paper and parrot back to the teacher what they've heard, knowing that's the only way to get a good grade, and the resulting combination is deadly.

    The papers are all going to be similar from the beginning, because it's a rare instructor who actually encourages dissenting opinions (and that fault in teaching is a whole other discussion of its own). Then the papers are going to be similar because there really are only so many ways to interpret the source material that are defensible. And finally, the papers are heavily likely to be similar to at least one other paper written about the subject, when every paper ever written on the subject is considered (exactly what the plagiarism sites attempt to do).

    I think the problem this competition is trying to solve is intractable in the face of the current educational system. It's gotten to the point where, if the software considers a large enough number of sources, even the instructor's own papers are going to look like plagiarism.

    Hell, look at the Slashdot comment system. A million people read the front page, but only a few thousand post comments. Thousands more are content to simply moderate the comments, and face it, comments they agree with are more likely to be modded up, one way or another. Then compare the modded comments. We get a lot of duplicate or near duplicate thought, and hence near duplicate comments on every article. Why? Because when you get enough people together in one place, discussing the same subject in writing, there are only so many viewpoints and only so many comments that won't get modded down for being of the "cubic what?" variety.

    Time to go back to grading on spelling and grammar. We've reached the end of the grading on ideas road. Coherency of presentation is all we have left. (One could argue it's all we ever had.)

    1. Re:The humanities are in trouble. by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 2, Funny

      Shit, by the time I came back to the keyboard after writing this post and not hitting submit, there were 30 other posts that said the same thing. I must be a plagiarist.... Damnit.

    2. Re:The humanities are in trouble. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to be callipygous but what exactly is the "cubic what?" variety?

    3. Re:The humanities are in trouble. by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I was remembering it wrong. I meant TimeCube.

      Callipygous. NICE word.

    4. Re:The humanities are in trouble. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I completely agree. Let's take a little more objective look at the idea of using "plagiarism detecting services". How many millions of high school students in the US will study Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet this year alone? How many different ways can you dissect it in essay/paper form? Assuming that this "service" stays in use for any length of time the chance of a person accidentally plagiarizing someone else's work will only increase. So, I'd think that as time approaches infinity the chance of plagiarism approaches 1 with the only varying factor being how quickly. Which only leads me to believe that this "service" is worthless.

    5. Re:The humanities are in trouble. by scipero · · Score: 1

      Seriously, the humanities are in trouble. With over 6 billion people on the planet, it's extremely difficult to have an original thought.

      Not true. I work in a field, Classical Philology, that has been hammering on the same material for 2 millenia. Original approaches are still plentiful because new generations approach the old material in new ways. Inscriptions and lucky finds in the libraries of old universities do occasionally appear, but even the most stable texts, like the Iliad, continue to generate fascinating scholarship.

      Don't underestimate the ingenuity and creativity of intelligent people.

    6. Re:The humanities are in trouble. by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

      Time to go back to grading on spelling and grammar. We've reached the end of the grading on ideas road. Coherency of presentation is all we have left. (One could argue it's all we ever had.)

      Perhaps this is a foolish question, but why aren't most undergraduate Humanities courses structured and graded in this way? The students must learn the proper techniques of presentation and argumentation while cutting their teeth on well known and well analyzed works before they can proceed to apply their skills and knowledge to more complex and obscure works which may or may not have as large or well known a body of commentary. As you pointed out, there are only so many valid ways in which one can interpret the Iliad, the Odyssey, or the Classics; they are now thousands of years old at this point and everything that could have been said about them has already been said. If plagiarism checking is done at the undergraduate level then it should be checked only against basic sentence level copying and not in the copying of ideas because students learn by imitating the work of masters and in many cases there are no new ideas or angles for commentary on a well known work and that is not the point. The point is for the students to learn about presentation and argumentation, not to come up with a new interpretation of a well known ancient text.

    7. Re:The humanities are in trouble. by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2, Interesting

      In my experience many professors (too many) basically ask for Plagiarized papers. There are a variety of reasons why they ask for plagiarized papers, mostly having to do with either laziness or wanting a particular view point regurgitated.

      People in my generation had Cliff Notes which one could spew forth a regurgitated version from Cliff Notes and get an A, while those with original thoughts would be graded much more harshly.

      I once researched a paper where it was fully documented with sources and such, all my own research and writing and got an D- on it. I finished the class basically plagiarizing my roommates papers from the year before and scoring A's and B's on all the other papers.

      What is the point of using your brain when it is punished?

      Not all Professors are like this, but too many are.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    8. Re:The humanities are in trouble. by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

      Perhaps this is a foolish question, but why aren't most undergraduate Humanities courses structured and graded in this way?

      Once upon a time they were. Undergraduates weren't expected to come up with anything original anyway. As other posters have been pointing out, they still aren't and risk being soundly punished for daring to try. Yet despite the realities of grading, many many humanities professors claim to want original work, and I would venture to guess that the majority of them use turnitin.com by now.

      Perhaps I'm letting my engineering background run away with me, but the two-faced nature of so many humanities professors seems to be epidemic. 'Be original, while agreeing with everything I say!' Bah. As far as I'm concerned, ever since post-modernism, the humanities have been busily self-destructing. Self-contradictory grading is only one facet of that decline.

    9. Re:The humanities are in trouble. by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Look, the remedies that you advocate are worse than the cure. What, let's go back to the days when only White People had the nerve to submit papers. HINT: grading on spelling and grammar is code-words for racism. Much like literacy tests. Please tell me an admitted racist like yourself has nothing to do with establishing curiculms.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    10. Re:The humanities are in trouble. by CodeBuster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Perhaps I'm letting my engineering background run away with me

      I don't think so. I received my undergraduate degree in CS and I remember the ongoing feuds between the Humanities and the Sciences and especially the engineering disciplines (which includes CS at many universities) which tend to be the more pragmatic and practical ones among the scientists. The humanists would always dismiss us and our profession(s) as merely a necessary evil of modern society, considering their own bullshit musings to be the highest form of human development, the epitome of achievement, and what we would all be doing if we were somehow freed from the concerns of daily living and left with unlimited time to devote to philosophical discussion of the human condition. Scientists, and to a lesser extent engineers, tend to view the entire history of this planet and humans in general as merely temporary concerns in a temporary society and seek instead to understand the universe itself which existed before us and will probably be around long after our demise. This necessarily leads them into the study of mathematics which is really the antithesis of the humanities and causes some rather spectacular misunderstandings as the two opposite world views clash; but enough of this bullshit, I am beginning to sound like a humanist rather than an engineer.

    11. Re:The humanities are in trouble. by Whoa314 · · Score: 1

      I've partaken in the feud firsthand as an engineering student; when I dared venture into Psychology (a dirty medium between science and bullshit) I treated the final "research paper" as I would a true research paper, citing facts from other papers and developing new conclusions.

      As it turned out, the TA didn't read any of the semantic content of the paper, but ended up crucifying me when one of the phrases I cited from a source wasn't paraphrased "enough". It was an inline quote, of the form "According to Attwood (2000)... blah blah blah". My sentence structure was entirely different from Attwood's, but four words were the same: Asperger, syndrome, imitate, and model. The first two were the name of the condition which was the topic of the paper; I suppose I could've replaced the latter two with synonyms, but I felt there was no point anyway; I cited the appropriate author, the full citation was correctly placed at the end of my paper, and I was simply using Attwood's fact to support my entirely separate argument.

      Apparently, there's some cutoff line to how much you're supposed to mangle a paraphrase to not be plagiarism. I wasn't using Attwood's words to attempt to take credit for some beautiful literary artwork, I was using it for a cold hard fact. The apparent unhealthy fixation on having paraphrases conform to some stupid style guide defeats the purpose of the plagiarism policy, which is intended to protect IDEAS foremost. Furthermore, requiring roundabout ways of saying things only adds to the bullshit-level already stigmatizing the human sciences.

      If a scientist publishes a finding saying "we measured 3.14 to 1% precision", and you cite that paper, you better "paraphrase" that finding as "they measured 3.14 to 1% precision", with no bullshit creative mangling like "they measured around three" or "they measured pi". We cite for semantics, not sentence structure. Taking extra time to mangle paraphrases only belittles the original author's contribution, and inevitably degrades the semantic content of the phrase.

      On a side note, I was extra careful in my last physics-related mention in my psychology class; I couldn't afford to be punished for plagiarizing Newton's

      "force equals mass times acceleration".

      I suppose, this equally concise paraphrase in my own words was more appropriate:

      "the quantity which has a quotidian manifestation as a displacing exertion can be shown to be non-relativistically equivalent to the quantity resulting from a product-under the standard definition of multiplication which defines an abelian group over the field of real numbers-of the manifestation of baryonic interactions with the space-time manifold and the abstracted compound quantity which is commonly computed as the second analytic derivative of the spatial components of any state-vector defined by a one-to-one and onto invertible transformation from unique plank-scale discretizations to disjoint numerical sets."

      Also, I'm a fugitive because I jaywalked the other day.

    12. Re:The humanities are in trouble. by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

      What the hell are you babbling about? Grammar and spelling function as class barriers, not race barriers, as all educational standards do. Unless you're trying to claim that black people are too stupid to be educated? Sounds racist to me.

      There are more stupid white people than there are stupid black people in the United States. There are more stupid white people than there are any kind of black people in the United States - the US population was only 12.9% black in the 2000 census.

      Class is different from race. We do have classes in the United States. Fortunately they're some of the broadest and most permeable in history; class mobility is high, predicated on education and possession of money. Attain either or both, and you too can move up.

      It's called the American dream, asshole.

    13. Re:The humanities are in trouble. by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I thought you were referring to people who use wrong units, or who make up silly units.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    14. Re:The humanities are in trouble. by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Fortunately they're some of the broadest and most permeable in history; class mobility is high, predicated on education and possession of money [...] It's called the American dream, asshole

      That's the American myth, sucker.

              "There might also be an argument in favour of wealth disparities if social mobility was high and the sons and daughters of office cleaners could fairly easily rise to become chief executives. But America and Britain, which follow the Anglo-Saxon model, have the highest intergenerational correlations between the social status of fathers and sons."

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    15. Re:The humanities are in trouble. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not true. I work in a field, Classical Philology, that has been hammering on the same material for 2 millenia.

      More like 2 centuries. Postage stamps were invented in Victorian times.

    16. Re:The humanities are in trouble. by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      People in my generation had Cliff Notes which one could spew forth a regurgitated version from Cliff Notes and get an A, while those with original thoughts would be graded much more harshly.

      I wonder if a hundred years from now, the study of Cliffs/Coles Notes will be a subject in its own right. What if some of the old texts we study now are actually crib sheets in an encrypted, allegorical or circumlocutory form? Better stop now, I feel a Dan Brown plot coming on.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    17. Re:The humanities are in trouble. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      grading on spelling and grammar is code-words for racism.

      Let's just ignore the obvious grammatical errors in your comment... or try to.

      Please tell me an admitted racist like yourself has nothing to do with establishing curiculms.

      Please tell me an idiot like yourself doesn't have a degree. Try installing Firefox to help you with that spelling problem, slick.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    18. Re:The humanities are in trouble. by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

      "the quantity which has a quotidian manifestation as a displacing exertion can be shown to be non-relativistically equivalent to the quantity resulting from a product-under the standard definition of multiplication which defines an abelian group over the field of real numbers-of the manifestation of baryonic interactions with the space-time manifold and the abstracted compound quantity which is commonly computed as the second analytic derivative of the spatial components of any state-vector defined by a one-to-one and onto invertible transformation from unique plank-scale discretizations to disjoint numerical sets."

      Minus 5 points, mispelled Planck.

      That load of crap was worthy of a Ph.D. dissertation. I look forward to many a wordy journal article from you in the future.

    19. Re:The humanities are in trouble. by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

      Ouch. The truth hurts.

      The Economist's excerpt doesn't include the timeframe though. The American myth springs from historical reality. Recent reality, even. My grandfather came over on a boat, a poor immigrant. I'm now upper-middle class (how solidly in the current turmoil, I don't know). Presumably I'm part of the 12% who make it... And still, the intergenerational correlation is less than 50%, according to the article. What was the correlation in the 1600s? The 1400s? Considerably higher, if my history classes had any idea what they were talking about. I used the word 'history' on purpose. I was talking about centuries, not decades.

    20. Re:The humanities are in trouble. by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      The Economist's excerpt doesn't include the timeframe though.

      Can't trust those those sneaky lefties! But from the use of the present tense, the timeframe would appear to be now.

      While we're at it, "intergenerational correlation" isn't exactly a common phrase. If only there was some way to look on teh intarwebs. If only. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=intergenerational+correlation

      The American myth springs from historical reality. Recent reality, even.

      Say it as long as you like, as loud as you like, as often as you like. It won't make it true.

      My grandfather came over on a boat, a poor immigrant. I'm now upper-middle class

      What country? And how do they say "anecdotal evidence" or "statistically invalid sample" over there?

      I used the word 'history' on purpose. I was talking about centuries, not decades.

      You used it on purpose but you don't seem to know what it means. The definition isn't "things that happened in the past, but not if itw 99 years ago or less".

      The decades are what matters. Hell, now is what matters. I for one am not centuries old.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  34. Uh, Use Google? by chainLynx · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Here's a good article explaining how Google makes plagiarism detection easy: http://questioncopyright.org/node/4 There was a story a couple years ago about one of these plagiarism detection services, Turnitin, getting sued for copyright infringement... does anyone know if that went anywhere? http://education.zdnet.com/?p=953

  35. Consequences? by ieatcookies · · Score: 1

    What generally happens once the plagiarism is detected; are these students failed or disciplined?

    Is plagiarism enough of a misdemeanour to warrant expulsion? There are many facets to the educational systems but I believe the main priority is to educate. Would a student who could prove proficiency in his studies but is incredibly lazy (I know _many_ people like this for some reason) be eligible for failure or expulsion for turning in a paper that ranked to high for plagiarism testing?

    1. Re:Consequences? by Vegeta99 · · Score: 1

      In my school, it ranges from an "XF" grade (Failed because of cheating, says so on your transcript) to being expelled.

      And I think it's warranted. It's very easy not to plagiarize. Rephrase what the paper says, put in a little citation. You must be able to comprehend what you're reading to do so however.

      If some moron gets an A because he cheated and the teach didn't catch him, it devalues the A that I earned. There's people in my writing classes that have the same grade as me and cannot even write in the proper tone for an academic paper. That's just not fair.

    2. Re:Consequences? by ieatcookies · · Score: 1

      I couldn't agree more, cheating is cheating and it definitely warps the value of work from non-cheaters.

      I'm just trying to muddy the black and white line that says: oh, my software says you plagiarized 55% of your paper and therefore you get a fail. The only reason I ask this is because it's not always "morons" that do this, there are very competent people doing this simply because they've chosen to allocate time elsewhere, or out of laziness I suppose.

      I would guess that even if software could accurately determine the plagiarized value of a paper, professors would still want to assess the situation themselves. The software is a tool rather than judge/jury/executioner.

    3. Re:Consequences? by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Not defending cheating, but if your reason is that it devalues the A that you "earned". Then you should consider the rampant grade inflation to be just as bad as plagiarizing, as it certainly devalues the A that some people earn when work that should get a C gets the same A as the person that earned it. The only problem with that is that a lot of people that now get A s and feel they earned it, would be getting A s if it were not for the teachers "cheating".

    4. Re:Consequences? by Vegeta99 · · Score: 1

      I'm with ya there, too, actually. I went on a rant about turnitin.com getting those fair use rights.

      Some teachers take it too far. Last year, my school had a new professor who in his first year turned in double the number of academic violations for plagiarism than the rest of the major's faculty combined. He has since quit, but his stance was that if you paraphrased something, you had to cite it PERIOD. That is, if I were to have a paragraph contrasting multiple papers, I couldn't just put a parenthetical citation with all of them at the end of it, I'd have to cite each paper (perhaps more than once) directly after my contrast, even if it was my original thought!

      He failed half the class for plagiarism on that paper, and told me at first that the "11% plagiarized" on my paper could be cause for alarm. The offending sentence fragment? "Most social scientists believe that"... combined with the Works Cited page that, hello, anyone that ever cited a paper I used is going to have the EXACT SAME wording on that page.

    5. Re:Consequences? by Vegeta99 · · Score: 1

      Grade inflation pisses me off too!

      I was a real early reader/writer and by middle school, I had just given up on putting any effort into school because it was a waste of time. According to those standardized tests (back in the day they weren't tied to funding) that they gave us, I was reading and writing on a "college level" by then but yet, my A+ could be tied by 10 pages of garbage written by the druggies in the back row because it was an "A+ Effort" for them.

      And it didn't get any better in college. Freshman year they make the duds take remedial reading/writing/math classes and if you can't manage to pass the test to take the 100-level courses, the credits and grades don't count. After that, though, it's back to the same old thing.

      Hard sciences and maths are a bit different in that respect though, as far as I've seen. I'm no prodigy in maths, but my entrance exam said "You can start at Calc I". Big mistake. I dropped the class, and the teacher put a "Withdrew while failing" on my transcript even after discussing the fact that I was just trying to challenge myself - I only needed a statistics class for my major.

      Oh well. Graduation's in a week.

    6. Re:Consequences? by Whoa314 · · Score: 1

      I can one-up even that. I was screwed in a Psych class because, even though I included the parenthetical citation inline with the correct corresponding reference at the end of the paper, my paraphrase wasn't paraphrased "enough".

      It was:

      "According to Attwood (2000), ...blah blah blah".

      It was a short fact used to support my main argument in the rest of the paper. The sentence structure I had was different from Attwood's. But since I used the same words, "imitate" and "model" that Attwood used in my paraphrase of Attwood's finding, it was considered "plagiarism" by some shortsighted plagiarism "guidebook". I had the parenthetical clearly prefacing the paraphrase, but apparently didn't mangle the phrase to my TA's satisfaction.

      My actual argument didn't even depend necessarily on the extra fact, much less the specific, apparently untouchable holy words uttered by Attwood, it was only a 10-word factoid among many others used to support my argument.

    7. Re:Consequences? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      That's like failing organic chemistry because you used the word "carbon" too many times without citation.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  36. Euro 500 Euro 0 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If this was a contest for open source software, the winner would get zero Euros.

  37. I say, Let them eat plagiarism. by jimbudncl · · Score: 1

    Seriously, if the teachers don't have the time to identify it and the students are hell bent on doing it... let it happen. Perhaps that's the only way these people will learn anything about the subject matter anyway.

    And when they graduate, get a job, and completely fail... that'll be a nice wake up call. Sure, some will succeed (PHBs, anyone?)... but I doubt catching them in school would change the end result much.

    Face it, some problems aren't worth the time it takes to solve them, especially when you're approaching them the wrong way from the start.

    Queue: whining about how it'll make schools/univeristies look bad when their students fall on their faces in the real world. (I think I'm gonna cry)

    1. Re:I say, Let them eat plagiarism. by HikingStick · · Score: 1

      On the surface, saying "Who cares! They're only hurting themselves," sounds wonderful, but reality is not in synch with that simplistic view. Colleges thrive on reputation. Would anyone hire anyone from Stanford if they knew the school regularly churned out chumps who couldn't read a financial statement or couldn't string words together in a cohesive and coherent sentence?

      When students earn a degree and place it on their walls and resumes, they become standard bearers for the college. Once upon a time, I was a music major at a small school in the University of Wisconsin system. At any one time, there were probably only three or four music majors at the school. It was a two-year school, granting AA&S degrees, and most students transferred to a four-year school to pursue a baccalaureate degree. The music prof was great, but he was also the toughest and most demanding prof I ever had--even when compared to some real sticklers in the physical sciences. One of the other guys in the program, a few years younger than me (I was a non-traditional student), did not seem to be taking his studies seriously and criticized the prof for being a hard case. This launched the prof into a bit of a tirade, but I'll never forget what he said. He knew that graduates under his tutelage would be going on to study at many different schools. If, when getting into their advanced theory and music history classes, they did not know the basics--and even more--then it would mark the end of days for the music program at that little U of W system school. He was a hard case to ensure he produced only the best, so that the program would be preserved for those yet coming down the path.

      I took it to heart. When I started teaching network administration at a college near my home, at a school that had no real IT program, I made sure I gave 1000% and I expected as much from my students. When I took over, less than 15% of the students who completed the program reported working in IT. It was only slightly better after my first year, but four years later more than 80% of our graduates were working in IT. My hat goes off to my hard case music prof.

      If I didn't care whether or not my students knew their stuff, then the college's reputation would suffer for it and the program would be left to die.

      --
      I use irony whenever I can, but my shirts are still wrinkled...
    2. Re:I say, Let them eat plagiarism. by jimbudncl · · Score: 1

      I'm glad someone bestowed you with the will to achieve.

      I'm not sure if you realize it, but we're waving the same flag. If teacher's didn't have time to sniff out students who plagiarize, they're certainly not giving 1000%. Coming up with a system to automate plagiarism detection is just removing the human factor another step from our education system, when what we need is more human interaction. I'd say take all the effort being put into these systems, and spend it on educating teachers and improving wages to attract more talent (I know some teachers give 1000%, even though they're underpaid... but there aren't enough of them to teach the world).

      Of course my humorist slap at this article doesn't apply to the real world... it's suppose to spawn discussion. Thanks for playing ;)

  38. Re:Require submission of drafts; meet with student by Colonel+Korn · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Plagiarism is a symptom of professors only being involved in the last step: reviewing the final product.

    Require the students to submit multiple drafts. Meet with them for 15 minutes each and discuss their thought processes on the ongoing paper. You'll get better final products, teach people not to procrastinate, and smoke-out people who have no involvement in their "own work."

    What, can't do that because you have 60 students in a class? Well, there's part of the problem too.

    We're trying to find a technology solution to a problem with less student-teacher interaction. Typical!

    I never taught a class involving humanities paper writing (in the science classes I taught, I could detect borrowed work by asking our kids to explain the calculations in their presentations and reports), but my wife meets with students several at least once after they turn in a required outline and bibliography to her. The bibliography, meeting, and my wife's extensive knowledge of scholarship in her field have made plagiarism rare and very obvious. Also, they make the students write vastly better papers and learn a lot more. Even having students meet with a TA to discuss paper ideas and progress is a huge help, and required outlines, drafts, and (especially) bibliographies should be part of the writing process in every lower level undergrad class. In upper level classes, the meeting is sufficient.

    --
    "I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
  39. This could be useful for blog unduplication by Animats · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is a useful mechanism for search engines, which need to distinguish original content from hundreds or thousands of blogs echoing it. Imagine the Web with all the duplicate, repetitive material ignored. No wonder Yahoo is supporting this. Someone over there is thinking.

    1. Re:This could be useful for blog unduplication by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google's been doing this forever...

  40. next contest by SABME · · Score: 1

    The next contest will be to see who can write an automated paper generator that fools the plagiarism detector.

    1. Re:next contest by samcan · · Score: 1

      I've had a theory about this...if I wrote a program that imitated my writing style, and I put in a bunch of information, with appropriate information on bias, etc., and the program outputted a paper, would that paper be considered "written" by me?

      I mean, I'm the one who told it how to write, wouldn't that count for something? :)

    2. Re:next contest by Philip_the_physicist · · Score: 1

      If you didn't distribute the program, you would probably be fine. If you did distribute it, then you would be assisting another student cheat, and so under most rules would be considered equally at fault (so that they don't have to figure out which was the original).

  41. Plagiarism vs. Ghostrwriting by jcohen · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I realize that plagiarism detection represents an interesting problem in computer science, and that it goes some distance toweard solving a serious problem. However, I read an article in the Chronicle of Higher Education, behind a paywall, alas, which leads me to believe that it is only a partial solution to academic dishonesty. The article suggested that, thanks to the Internet, the costs of human capital are now so low that hiring a ghostwriter to compose one's papers, sidestepping the problem of plagiarism to begin with, is far more expedient than plagiarism itself. It described a Russian-"businessman"-headed network of Filipino paper-writers, most paid between $1 and $3 a page, who are able to market their services to the West through a web site and remote call centers. At $20/page to the end-user, with no possibility of plagiarism detection, I think that most desperate students would find this a good deal. In my opinion, ghostwriting will supplant plagiarism as time goes on.

    What is a teacher to do? In-class writing samples would seem to be the only hope of detecting ghostwriting. Students could, of course, argue that at home, they can "polish" their papers, and that therefore they will not resemble the in-class samples. Moreover, checking samples against papers is a thankless and time-consuming task which is only a preliminary to actually evaluating the work. Perhaps there is a computer-based solution to this, but, in the meantime, perhaps potential ghostwriting customers could take their desires to their logical conclusion, and simply buy their degrees on the Internet directly.

    --
    "Imaginary solutions to real problems."
    1. Re:Plagiarism vs. Ghostrwriting by radtea · · Score: 1

      In-class writing samples would seem to be the only hope of detecting ghostwriting.

      The problem with this is that the same students could provide writing samples to ghosting services, ensuring a degree of similarity between them.

      The problem with all of this is not that students can so easily circumvent the nominal evaluative process, but that "higher" education has such low standards of evaluation. We grade students in ways that are completely unscientific, all in the name of cramming huge numbers of kids into classes like cattle while unmotivated and generally untrained professors deliver canned lectures.

      In a university setting, once the class size gets over fifty there is no way the prof can even begin to keep track of students as individuals, and grades become meaningless. With fewer than twenty students, and especially fewer than ten, teaching really starts to become fun again, both for the prof and the students, because you're engaging each other mind-to-mind.

      I don't know what the solution is, but large classes are the problem, not poor plagarism-detection software.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    2. Re:Plagiarism vs. Ghostrwriting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I think the worrying part is that Filipino essay-factory workers earning $1/page can churn out papers deemed "good enough" by *higher*-education professors.

      Not worrying for the people earning $1/page, but worrying for the people paying $10,000 a semester for an education that doesn't noticeably distance them in ability from the guy making $1/page.

    3. Re:Plagiarism vs. Ghostrwriting by Silentknyght · · Score: 1

      What is a teacher to do? In-class writing samples would seem to be the only hope of detecting ghostwriting. Students could, of course, argue that at home, they can "polish" their papers, and that therefore they will not resemble the in-class samples. Moreover, checking samples against papers is a thankless and time-consuming task which is only a preliminary to actually evaluating the work. Perhaps there is a computer-based solution to this, but, in the meantime, perhaps potential ghostwriting customers could take their desires to their logical conclusion, and simply buy their degrees on the Internet directly.

      The solution is to require enough step-wise work, and forget about the end-product. Require outlines, first, second, & third drafts. Require students to bring in the pieces for colleagues to review during class time. Oversee all this effort/coordination.

      When it comes time to hand in the final product, require it include all the other required, outlines, notes, marked-up drafts, etc.

      You won't catch any cheaters with this approach, though, but you'll still get the students to do the work. Hopefully the forced, stepwise process teaches the would-be cheaters something--you can't force anyone to learn--but this solution, focusing on the learning and not on the outcome, seems to be the best compromise.

    4. Re:Plagiarism vs. Ghostrwriting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If only there where some mechanism to lock all the students in a room at the end of the course and "test" to see if they had learned anything.

    5. Re:Plagiarism vs. Ghostrwriting by greyhueofdoubt · · Score: 1

      Three words:

      Extemporaneous Oral Presentation.

      PreReq for the class should be public speaking. No excuses- Dyslexic people write papers; "shy" people need to present. Problem solved.

      -b

      --
      No offense, but I've stopped responding to AC's.
    6. Re:Plagiarism vs. Ghostrwriting by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I'm very smart but I don't test well. That's not fair!

      i kan haz waaaaghmbulance?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    7. Re:Plagiarism vs. Ghostrwriting by Maximum+Prophet · · Score: 1

      It described a Russian-"businessman"-headed network of Filipino paper-writers, most paid between $1 and $3 a page, who are able to market their services to the West through a web site [bestessays.com] and remote call centers. At $20/page to the end-user, with no possibility of plagiarism detection, I think that most desperate students would find this a good deal. In my opinion, ghostwriting will supplant plagiarism as time goes on.

      We're already there. Many small town newspapers don't have writing staffs anymore. They email the facts and transcripts to exactly the kind of service that you are talking about. One or two in house editors is all it takes to run a newspaper.

      --
      All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
    8. Re:Plagiarism vs. Ghostrwriting by Maximum+Prophet · · Score: 1

      Given that few if any people can actually get a job using the skills they learn in English 301 or Philosophy 205, that's not too much of a problem.

      Imagine you are a corporate VP for a high tech company, and you need to give a presentation. Are you expected to create all the material you are going to present, or do you delegate it to your worker bees?

      --
      All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
  42. Re:Require submission of drafts; meet with student by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or do it the old-fashioned way. I did a three year degree at Oxford. Lectures were strictly optional. Tutorials were initially compulsory, but if you could convince your tutor you didn't need them they could be dropped.

    But none of this matters, because the degree I received at the end was based on 24 hours of exams. Course work, plagiarized or not, was irrelevant.

  43. Re:Require submission of drafts; meet with student by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

    Most of my college papers had exactly one draft written the night before they were due with bibliography. Most of them received a B or better.
    I do however agree that more student-teacher interaction would be a better solution to this problem. Teaching is a "labor" intensive task in that it optimizes at some small number of students per teacher. I do not believe that technology is capable of changing that to a significant degree.

    --
    The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
  44. What I'd do by Yold · · Score: 1

    I'd maintain a database of all writing assignments submitted by a student over their college career. I remember an assignment in my CSCI classes that used an algorithm based on Euclidean distances and a count-table for each word to compare documents, so even using a simple metric would probably work well.

    Since this method would be based on vocabulary, studying for tests like the GRE vocab section may through it off, since someone could conceivably rapidly change their vocabulary, and through off the system.

    I think the best way to end plagiarism is a very visible deterrent. If you are submitting all your assignments into a database, which does some checking that is transparent (publicly scrutable), it would probably be a very fair and viable deterrent.

  45. Google plagiarism detector by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    The best way to do this is probably to have a cache of all likely possible sources from which the material could be copied, and who else has that but google? Other search engines, of course... Your major limiting factor is that there's only so many ways to say the same thing. At some point, if you collect enough sample papers, you're going to discover that every paper actually on the topic can only be made up of so many possible phrases :)

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  46. My Dissertation by Kryis · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The Computer Science department at my uni routinely scans final year dissertations using automated software. Mine was flagged up as "possibly plagiarised"; a significant amount of content could be found elsewhere on the web (can't remember the exact percentage).

    My project supervisor said when he got the email from the system saying it came back positive he was very surprised - given the small amount of research in the area (there are only 5 or 6 papers on the same topic that I am aware of), and no other research on that exact method of solving the problem .

    When I found this out I was more than a little worried - I wasn't aware of copying any other work . It turns out that it had picked up on stupid stuff, like the boilerplate at the beginning of the dissertation, or phrases like "In conclusion,", and nothing longer than 3 or 4 words in any paragraph.

    This sort of plagiarism detection that detects word shuffling is fine for people that REALLY don't have a clue (i.e. the ones that forget to change the @author javadoc tag when copying their friends Java coursework), but it would still be relatively trivial to change enough words in a sentence to fool the system.

  47. You said it: Plagiarism detection is easy by kcdoodle · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If you have graded more than 2 assignments in your life, and really read each and every paper, and provided good critical feedback, then it is really easy to spot a plagiarized paper.

    Also, a grader usually knows the subject matter and has read many other good and bad works on the subject. You can get a feel for a person's writing style and depth of knowledge on a subject in just a few sentences. Then when you "smell something fishy", then it usually is.

    So far, whenever I "smell something fishy" I try to find the best sentence near the fishiness and paste it into Google. Plagiarists are not going to rewrite every sentence, if they do, then they probably learned something anyway. No, plagiarists are just lazy and in a hurry and deep down they know they deserve to be caught.

    --

    - I live the greatest adventure anyone could possibly desire. - Tosk the Hunted
    1. Re:You said it: Plagiarism detection is easy by marpot · · Score: 1

      For a human it is really quite easy to find different writing styles, but for a computer it isn't, yet. That's why there is an analysis tasks dedicated to this problem at the competition.

    2. Re:You said it: Plagiarism detection is easy by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Many educators don't really provide that much of a value-add though, and some have clearly only read part of a paper I've written from their comments. While I've never plagiarized (writing was always my strongest subject) the temptation has been huge on occasion, especially when taking a required class whose material I could teach.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  48. And if you're a student, save your drafts by langelgjm · · Score: 1

    If you're on the other side of the equation, as a student, save your drafts.

    If you are ever wrongly accused of plagiarism (or for that matter, copyright infringement), having several earlier versions of a paper, along with outlines, notes, etc., will work greatly in your favor.

    Not only that, but it also allows to see the progression in your work, and can double as a backup in case something goes catastrophically wrong with your current document.

    --
    "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
    1. Re:And if you're a student, save your drafts by vlm · · Score: 1

      If you are ever wrongly accused of plagiarism (or for that matter, copyright infringement),

      Your plan won't help with trademark infringement. Here are two relevant stories from mises.org:

      http://blog.mises.org/archives/009859.asp

      http://blog.mises.org/archives/009864.asp

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
  49. Wrong Problem by green1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They are trying to invalidate plagarism detection software by proving that you can still manage to plagarise in a way it won't detect (false negative). The thing is, this isn't the problem with plagarism software, the real problem is where it detects plagarism when none in fact took place (false positive). This will happen in a few ways:

    1) There have been several highly publicized incidents where students have been in big trouble for plagarising their own work. This is ludicrous, they wrote it in the first place!

    2) A large enough database of phrases, paragraphs, etc. will eventually encompass the majority of ways of phrasing a particular idea, therefore when discussing an existing idea the odds of saying something that has been said before will eventually approach certainty.
    Now this wouldn't necessarilly apply if you were inventing a whole new concept, but in most classes that is not what you are being asked to do, instead you are asked to research how something has already been done. There is bound to be duplication here, especially as the database grows. This doesn't mean you plagarised something, merely that someone else has worded something similarily in the past. (For it to be plagarism you would have had to have seen and copied that earlier work, in this case you may not even know about it.)

    1. Re:Wrong Problem by marpot · · Score: 1

      Don't you think there's a difference in the oddities of writing accidentally 10 words that have been written before and 100 words? The former can hardly be called plagiarism, the latter won't happen accidentally.

  50. Who needs plagiarism? by Ralph+Spoilsport · · Score: 5, Insightful
    When you've got Markov Generators?

    And the Postmodernism Generator?

    You don't have to write much of anything at all. Would you get a good grade? Fuck no. Would they FLUNK YOU FOR IT? Fuck no. Because its graded by untenured faculty who have to curry favour with students, or its graded by Grad Assistants who don't give a shit, and why should they.

    Oh, look, a paper by Cindy Bleethstain. She's a fucking idiot. Let's see. Hmmmm. Yup. Incomprehensible bullshit, as usual. Give her a C+ because some of it is intelligible and kind of funny.

    Oh, look another paper by Guido LeDouchebag. Bottlecaps are smarter than this turnip. Hmmm. Yup. More incomprehensible bullshit. C+. At least he finally discovered the spellchecker.

    THAT'S what it is often like, unfortunately.

    I read the paper, and if there is a passage that is noticeably different in tone, I'll copy past a section into Google and see where they pulled it. 9 times out of 10, it's a direct lift from a web page, unattributed. I send it back, and tell them "Footnotes, please. Also, automatic single grade loss. right off the top."

    If it comes back still broken, then I nail 'em for plagiarism. It's a big deal, and requires paperwork I don't like to fill out...

    So far I've only had one student have the cajones to not bother fixing their attributions, and he got crucified by the Ethics board. He was an arrogant little prick, too.

    RS

    --
    Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
    1. Re:Who needs plagiarism? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I hadn't just blown my last mod point on a monty python reference, I'd be torn between giving you funny and interesting.

    2. Re:Who needs plagiarism? by rgviza · · Score: 1

      >He was an arrogant little prick, too.

      It's a good thing there are no arrogant professors or TAs.

      --
      Don't kid yourself. It's the size of the regexp AND how you use it that counts.
    3. Re:Who needs plagiarism? by HikingStick · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My problem with automatic checks is that there is always a chance that someone's seemingly original thought may actually reflect thoughts someone else already may have put down on paper. I remember being accused of copying someone else's work once. It was in the early '80s when the Internet as we know it was not part of general public awareness. When the instructor interrogated me on the sentence (one sentence in a paper at least five pages long), he insisted I copied it from some specific book or article. I had absolutely no clue what the guy was talking about. At the time, all I ever read was Fred Saberhagen, Tolkein, Piers Anthony, and Terry Brooks. After what seemed like forever (it was probably no more than ten minutes), he finally realized that I had no clue about his source, and I'm guessing he realized that whatever I wrote matched the way I wrote the rest of the paper and the way I used the spoken word. Yech! I haven't thought about that situation in a long time. I must be getting old.

      --
      I use irony whenever I can, but my shirts are still wrinkled...
    4. Re:Who needs plagiarism? by Capt.DrumkenBum · · Score: 1

      You forgot:
      Oh, look, a paper by Erica Cruise. She has a great rack. I am not going to read this. I will just think about her breasts, as usual. Give her a B+ because I want to see her naked.

      By the way, much of the above post is plagiarized.

      --
      If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
    5. Re:Who needs plagiarism? by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Look, in the year 2009, dissent is racism. Why don't you just deal with that fact instead of blaming the victim?

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    6. Re:Who needs plagiarism? by Ralph+Spoilsport · · Score: 1
      Look, in the year 2009, dissent is racism. Why don't you just deal with that fact instead of blaming the victim?

      Dissent is racism? WTF are you talking about? Dissent is racism. Sure. Why not. And Agreement is sexism. I don't know if you're being funny or stupid.

      RS

      --
      Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
    7. Re:Who needs plagiarism? by xenocide2 · · Score: 1

      or its graded by Grad Assistants who don't give a shit, and why should they.

      Oh no, that line of thinking is simply going to get students trouble. Grad TAs are very petty people. They're usually people who passed the courses they grade without cheating, and find it an insult to themselves, the field and the rest of the class. They'll regularly grade much harder than Professors. I know, because I've been a TA, and have brought clear, deliberate plagiarism to Professorial attention and was basically punished for it by being asked to do the detective work. In the end, no ethics board, no getting kicked out of school, just a zero for the assignment.

      Knowing what I know now, I would have refused the task and asked the ethics council to step in.

      --
      I Browse at +4 Flamebait

      Open Source Sysadmin

    8. Re:Who needs plagiarism? by Paltin · · Score: 1

      Written by someone who's never had to read term papers from students who don't care about the topic because it's a degree requirement for a non-major course.

      This is not good, just as the author noted--- but it is the way it is.

    9. Re:Who needs plagiarism? by ion.simon.c · · Score: 1

      TTTTRRRRROLLLLLL!!!!!

  51. Fair use was affirmed for Turnitin by langelgjm · · Score: 1

    It was actually discussed on Slashdot just a few days ago.

    --
    "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
    1. Re:Fair use was affirmed for Turnitin by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      It was discussed a long time before that.

      Do slashdot dupes count as plagiarism?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  52. use for computer programming? by peter303 · · Score: 1

    I was talking to a comp sci proof who uses plagarism software to detect copied source programs. Claims it detects common ruses like transposition, reformatting, and variable renaming. The school suspends for rest of year if claim is verified.

    Some professors now encourage group programming projects because that is how it works in the real world.

  53. Original Wording by redmid17 · · Score: 1

    To those who are saying it's nearly impossible to phrase an original thought I totally agree. To those saying the phrasing is always, I beg to differ. Think of all the quotes from movies or quotes attributed to guys like Mark Twain or another famous person. Don't you all know someone (or several) who manage to botch those quotes all the time? I know I've managed to come up with 12 different ways to say lines from my favorite movies.

    For my graduate class in Information Systems Security, I had to write a 20+ page paper in conjunction with the final. Each year my professor runs each paper through a program he wrote that compares each word, sentence, and paragraph from that years papers as well as every other paper he has ever collected. This is in addition to using http://turnitin.com/. He said a normal paper with excerpts and such typically runs between 10 and 15%. He doesn't start hardcore examining them until they hit about 20%. My paper had a 2% hit rate, which was the lowest he'd seen in awhile. I'm not a phenomenal writer, but I hate repetitive phrasing and similar constructions. It was mostly just a lot of editing and correcting, but it can definitely be done.

  54. I could win this competition. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My submission - Test our children.

    To prove someone is not faking, lying, cheating is to put them to the test.

  55. Re:Take a big fat dump on your teacher's desk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There goes my thesis..

  56. Re:Require submission of drafts; meet with student by scamper_22 · · Score: 1

    Actually the problem is our institutionalization of education.
    Somewhere along the line, the educational systems became gate keepers to jobs so to speak.

    Can't be a doctor without first doing well in school, getting accepted into a medical school... ...

    So grades are of prime importance as that is how the educational system ranks people. Otherwise, we could ALL be doctors and earn big bucks, we could ALL be lawyers and earn big bucks, we could all be X and earn big bucks (of course we could not ALL earn big bucks as supply would exceed demand :P ).

    This stems primarily from the centralization of the economy. When the economy is centralized, there is no competition and things are not allowed to 'fail' so how are people hired? They are hired by what some regulator (the education system) decides. In a decentralized economy, anyone can practice and people are 'hired' by people choosing to purchase their services. If you don't have a product/service that people wish to have, no one gives you money and you are 'fired' so to speak.

    Without the ability to freely choose what services you want, who gets the 'jobs' becomes a centralized activity where the main differentiator becomes some rating agency (that being the education system). Hence the overemphasis on grading and credentials. Students seeing the reality realize it and thus focus on how do i get good grades or pass some test as that is what leads to a job. I do not blame students one bit for gaming the system. They'll forever play this back and forth game with educations as long as the educators remain the gatekeepers in a centralized economy. Just like you cannot blame lobbyists for lobbying Washington for money... when the real problem is that Washington puts itself in a position to hand out money.

    What is Washington's purpose? To hand out money... so lobbyists play that game.
    What is the purpose of the education system? To be a gatekeeper for jobs... so students play that game.

    Plagiarism has always been a problem. Education has never been 'pure' so to speak. However, it is at some of its highest levels today as mass numbers of people enter the educational system for the requirements of getting a job. This attitude is only getting worse and worse...

    Consider Obama's plan to pay teachers with master's degrees more. Do you think teacher's are suddenly going to get better after getting their master's degree? Do you think the educational system is so good at grading that it can really bring prestige to a master's degree?
    Nope, more likely all it will mean is teacher's will just get their master's degree credentials in order to get more pay. They won't be one bit more qualified or better at their jobs. All it will means is teachers will push to get their master's degree which will mean they will plagiarize and do whatever they can do get that credential.

    The same scam happened in Florida a few years back where teacher's were paid more if they took additional 'courses.' Of course, they just ended up taking bogus courses. I think a few were even busted for creating fake certificates...

  57. mootblocks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No kind of plagiarism detector can detect my awesome mootbloxx!!!

  58. Re:Require submission of drafts; meet with student by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I did this sort of thing as a teaching assistant in a computer science class. After a student passed off a project I would pick part of the code and ask him or her what it did. The worst ever was a student with a final project that that worked perfectly, but that couldn't explain to me what a "printf" did...

  59. Re:Require submission of drafts; meet with student by davidsyes · · Score: 1

    "What, can't do that because you have 60 students in a class? Well, there's part of the problem too."

    Hmmmm, isn't that what TAs are for? Well, at least what the TRUSTED/TRUSTWORTHY TAs are for...

    Might be even interesting to have the professor's colleagues who KNOW the subject matter each forward papers from their students to make sure there is no in-school favoritism by TAs who may be sleeping with or doing/getting other favors from a challenged/weak student.

    The professor should keep a secret list of colleagues who randomely get a paper so that any student trying to directly approach the "anonymous" off-campus grader/professor would immediately generate a FAIL for the student. It would be like a student trying to influence or curry favor from a test proctor...

    --
    Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
  60. Re:Require submission of drafts; meet with student by bigbigbison · · Score: 1

    If I had a TA when I taught a class of 60 I would be in heaven. You are lucky to get a TA if you have 100 students in a class at my university...

    --
    http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
  61. Brock University Turnitin by Jessified · · Score: 1

    Brock University conducted released statistics on turnitin results. It's interesting that the vast majority of submissions fall into not the lowest match category, but the category of more than 20 words but less than 24% match.

  62. Re:Require submission of drafts; meet with student by bigbigbison · · Score: 1

    The easiest way to prevent plagiarism is to make your assignments specific to the class and basically plagiarism proof. Rather than just say, "write a paper about shakespeare" make the assignment more specific and require them to include some of the things that we have read in class and it takes a lot more work to plagiarize a paper. Sure a student could still plagiarize large sections but to make the paper fit the assignment they would have to tweak it or the paper will get a poor grade simply because it doesn't meet the assignment guidelines.

    --
    http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
  63. But if the teacher cares about the students... by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The students cannot fake it, if the teacher cares about them learning.

    Many many many moons ago, I was a Chem. Eng. grad student. This was before the internet existed, and before my beard had turned gray. One of my duties to pay my way was supervising a lab course for undergrads, and marking the students' lab reports (they were expected to produce about 20 pages per week just on this one lab course). I insisted on interviewing them individually on their reports, where they had to explain their results and conclusions. Nobody tried faking anything twice, because it was caught immediately; they had to read up and understand the background, or they were in deep shit. That class got the highest average mark ever in the year-end exam on the associated theory (the professor was pleasantly surprised).

    --
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    1. Re:But if the teacher cares about the students... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The students cannot fake it, if the teacher cares about them learning.

      Well, that sums it up fairly well.

      These "plagiarism detection" tools are only needed because the teachers don't (whether it's can't or won't) monitor and teach their students as individuals. After all, who really cares where they got their cribs/quotes - if they actually learned the stuff in the process.

  64. A failure waiting to happen... by Bones3D_mac · · Score: 1

    From what I understand of services like this, they basically create a database of all papers submitted to their system, then use the collective average of all those papers to determine how much of any newly submitted paper is "plagerized" before adding that paper into the database.

    The concern I have with such a system is that despite all of the english language's complexity, there is only a finite number of logical word combination within reason on any given topic. What happens when the system finally has samplings of every feasible word combination? Do all papers then come back flagged as plagerized, regardless of their content?

    The problem grows exponentially if the system is also watching for thesaurus substitutions on top of this.

    Who knows... it might even be possible to break such a system using a well-crafted Kant generator to "build" papers that are 100% unique from one another, but still using a shared database of keywords that would appear correct in context to the topic at hand.

    --


    8==8 Bones 8==8
  65. On paraphrasing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The tools are fairly good, but, in my experience, they'll always report 3-7% or so of your paper as plagiarized"

    Plagiarism is a concept in academia based on the idea that if you are going to do something wrong, at least you should do something nobody has done before. Your professor or other academia leader decides whether your plagiarism is truly original, or only a copy of a previous plagiarism.

    See Wikia for additional information.

  66. Draconian plagiarism protocol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    About a year ago, a challenge against my integrity was made in the form of an accusation of plagiarism. The text in question was a term paper for an introductory Psychology course. Initially, I folded to the intimidation tactics leveled at me by a grad student perhaps overcompensating for her own inadequacies, despite my certitude that I had performed no wrongdoing. Make no mistake-I am steadfastly opposed to actual plagiarism. In my case, a technical ambiguity was wielded as a weapon by a power-hungry authoritarian to blemish my personal credibility.

    The purported passage of such controversy is as follows:

    'In fact, autobiographical studies of adults with AS by Attwood (2000) have indicated that some individuals with AS actively and "ingeniously" imitate and model the social behavior of others to act normal despite personal difficulties in social integration.'

    Attwood, T. (2000). Strategies for improving the social integration of
    children with Asperger Syndrome. Autism, 4, 85-100.

    Note the inline citation, quotation around the less-common word choice, the context as simply a single contributing "factoid" in support of the undisputedly original ideas I presented in the rest of the paragraph, and the fact that the Attwood (2000) citation was flawlessly included in the "references" section at the end of the paper. The actual passage from the original article is as follows:

    'Some individuals with Asperger syndrome can be quite ingenious in using imitation and modelling to camouflage their difficulties with social integration'

    Attwood (2000)

    I wholeheartedly admit there are common words to both passages. I also stipulate that, if no reference for Attwood had been included, the phrase would have been a clear-cut case of plagiarism. The following words are common to both phrases, and neglect quotation marks:

    {Some, individuals, with, asperger, syndrome, imitate, model, difficulties, social, integration}

    There is no way to paraphrase "Asperger Syndrome"; it is a named medical condition, the topic of the article and the paper, and has no relevance to plagiarism. The determiner and preposition cannot be rationally classified as plagiarism either. "Social integration" refers to a well-defined sociological event, which does not belong to Attwood exclusively, and which would be plain wrong if "reworded" just to satisfy the plagiarism pedants. Remaining word-choice-plagiarism candidates are:

    {Individuals, imitate, model, difficulties}

    Some would argue that these words should have been replaced with synonyms; these people are shortsighted and wrong. One might replace "imitate" and "model" with similar descriptions, such as "act out" or "mimic" or "pretend-play" or "copy" or "follow" or "replicatively reperform" or any number of absurd rewordings. In many cases, subtle word meanings are changed, and in all cases, no less plagiarism is inherent in the phrase except in the minds of bureaucratic conformists who lose the original intent among the red tape. The same applies to the words "individuals" and "difficulties". Replacing "Individuals" with "people" and "difficulties" with "challenges" would simply be expending effort to satisfy the red-tape without removing any of the original author's contributions.

    The original author has been attributed for his contributions; the phrase is posed as a supporting factoid, not as literary art or poetry. When I use a thesaurus to find an uncommon word, I don't credit the thesaurus with my word choice. To claim that simply reusing an author's word choice after citing the author's ideas is plagiarism only belittles the author's contribution. Indeed, it would have been relatively trivial to transform my phrase into one which passes the formulaic plagiarism test used by my TA. In fact, such a transformation would have been formulaic itself. Consider the follow spectrum of rewordings:

    Some individuals with Asperger syndrome can be quite ingenious in using imitation and modelling to camouflage their difficulties

  67. Can't be totally automated. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you're not using a human check on these tools, you're failing miserably. They're great for seeing if whole papers, or even whole paragraphs are stolen, but you absolutely have to check to see what the thing is actually flagging in order to see whether the flags make sense. A quote-heavy paper often comes back with a fairly high score, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. A woman in one of my classes freaked out because her paper came back as 70% plagiarized. It was an annotated bibliography, and it flagged the citations.

    They're wonderful for giving you a better shot at catching the people who are plagiarizing, but you have to anticipate a high level of false positives.

  68. Re:Require submission of drafts; meet with student by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

    To piggyback on this, asking students to write somewhat unique and original reports (or even parts) is often enough to kill plagiarism dead. Ask for the x10^7 report on a subject, and students will just find one of the other (x10^7 -1) reports written on the same subject. Ask them to apply that information to a slightly different scenario, and you can quickly tell who plagiarizes and who knows their stuff.
     
    Plagiarism would die if teachers, TAs, and professors asked for unique and thoughtful reports, and were involved in the writing process. I currently teach HS science, and nobody plagiarizes any assignments I give, BECAUSE THEY CAN'T! They are unique, and have their own feel, and their own twists. I just read an essay explaining Archimedes Principle based on a princess who was wading across a stream. I know DAMN well it wasn't plagiarized, because it was a unique topic, and I was involved in the writing process.
     
    If you're running into plagiarism, it's your fault for being lazy.

    --
    Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
  69. Term Papers Suck as a Learning Metric Anyway... by automag · · Score: 1

    It seems like one of the major relevant questions that is overlooked when considering the topic of plagiarism is whether the writing of a 'traditional' paper is the proper vehicle for testing a students absorption of the topic at hand. In reflecting about my time as an undergrad, I can't think of a single paper I wrote that didn't boil down to busy-work. Complicated and time consuming sure, but busy-work none-the-less.

    The reason is actually pretty simple... until a student is at a level where they are being asked to produce original thought on a topic (masters or Ph.D. level work, depending on the discipline being studied, or for many majors a student will never be asked to produce original thought on a topic) a large amount of the work will amount to creative regurgitation of existing thought anyway.

    At that point one has to ask if the professor isn't just employing the wrong testing technique to ensure that learning is taking place (which is, usually, the ultimate goal anyway)... For example, I had several professors who skipped term papers entirely and simply made a large chunk of their 'live' tests essay based.

    It would be relatively difficult to plagiarize much of anything when a student is being forced to write about the topic at length and off-the-cuff. At that point you either know what you're talking about (you learned what you were supposed to learn), or your answers suck and it becomes pretty obvious that you haven't learned the material.

    Obviously for every rule there will be exceptions, but I'd be willing to bet that a very high majority of papers that are being written in any given university really amount to wasted effort for both the student and the professor anyway...

    --
    ---As my daddy used to tell me: "You gotta be smart before you can be a smartass."
  70. Re:Require submission of drafts; meet with student by HappyDude742 · · Score: 1

    You know the difference in pay between a prof who schedules 15 minute meetings with each student and one who just clicks 'submit' on Turnitin? Zilch. Actually, maybe less than zilch. The prof who's reviewing drafts of student work and meeting one-on-one with students for 15-20 hours a week is spending 15-20 hours fewer a week on professional publications, which are what actually get you tenure and pay raises. You simply do not pay enough tuition to make it worth the prof's time. Or, perhaps, the administration simply wastes too much of your tuition on non-professorial costs.

  71. whatcha gonna do? by gzuckier · · Score: 1

    it goes with today's territory. "research" consists of googling, "writing" consists of cutting and pasting, even when no actionable plagiarism is taking place.

    --
    Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.