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How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks
schwit1 submitted a story telling the strange tale of how in 2002, rogue NASA interns stole millions of dollars in moon rocks from a building designed not to let that happen. I'd suggest taking the whole thing with a little bit of salt.
Haven't read TFA yet, but the general story is true. I worked at JSC and knew Shae.
The samples were in a floor safe that they rolled out of the building on a dolly. The sting was set up as if a Belgian rockhound wanted to buy some of the samples, and they agreed to meet in Florida. The 3 other interns crossed state lines for the sting. Shae stayed in TX that weekend to attend scuba classes.
...why this is front page news. Thanks for keeping us informed!
this is old news
I already have this "Indiana Jones" thing playing out in my head when they say "...in a building designed to prevent it" If I read the article, I think that image would be dashed.
I particularly like the bit where the interns in question laid the moonrocks down and a mattress and screwed on top of them, thereby making the contamination of the spent samples even worse. Made me wonder who was on the bottom.
Seriously, though, the thing read like a synopsis of a bad TV movie. It may or may not be true, but it's telling that the perp has a book coming out that is an 'augmented' account of the heist, that the author of the linked piece is summarizing what was told him by the perp.
IOW, don't take it with a grain of salt. Kill it with Na fire.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
Not only is it somewhat painful to read, as far as I can tell it is mostly fiction, no fact checking at all. And it also seems partially plagiarized from this article:
http://www.latimes.com/features/printedition/magazine/la-tm-moonrocks23jun06,1,1392690.story?coll=la-home-magazine
And that one is by an actual reporter with actual fact checking. Obviously some of it is left up to how the perpetrators described it, but it doesn't have stupid made up stuff like a nitrogen filled lab and thermal suits and such. I would guess the crime played out more like the LA Times article, rather than this embellished piece of pulp fiction
Sometime between the heist and its resolution, Tiffany and Thad arranged the moon rocks on a bedâ"and had sex amongst them.
lol...
Why would you take the moon rocks with "a little bit of salt"? The salt just adds to what you have to smuggle out of the building.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Futurama got it right: "We're whalers on the moon, We carry a harpoon. But there ain't no whales. So we tell tall tales. And sing our whaling tune."
He needed a new needle for his googlephonic stereo...
I'm not sure why they choose people like this for cool internships. It sounds like the kind of guy that had good grades in college and all kinds of extracurricular activities, but not the kind of guy you'd actually choose as an intern!
Obviously I don't know anything besides the ridiculous, surely augmented account of TFA, which I did read. But I simply don't understand how people like that get internships, while people like me and others I know have a hard time. We don't have 4.0s and tons of extracurricular activities, but as any science nerd will tell you (and which I hope scientists and researchers at NASA know as well - maybe the blame for selecting people like that lies with HR), that's not what you should look for when you need a science/nerd intern!
If these interns were so smart, then how come they got caught?
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
"The samples they took were from every Apollo mission, ever. Sometime between the heist and its resolution, Tiffany and Thad arranged the moon rocks on a bed--and had sex amongst them."
Talk about getting your rocks off....
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
There are plenty of people with money who would buy moon rocks, if they could get enough provenance to brag about it, 'specially to their friends with stolen art works.
Can be found here.
My father used to work for ILC-DDC, a chip manufacturer out on Long Island. Some of their chips went to use with NASA. As I recall it, years ago, we children were given a tour on a "factory open to families" day, and they had a NASA space suit on display in the hallway. Well, it turns out that (1) this suit had been on the moon, (2) this suit hadn't been cleaned properly, and (3) NASA eventually recalled the suit to have any errant moon dust sucked out of it, and never let them have the suit again. At least, that's the story I was told.
is probably completely bogus. As was clearly shown on Mythbusters, neoprene (even thicker than the mentioned 2mm) simply does not work against thermal sensors.
Also: "... and by paying careful attention to the absorption of the powder it is possible to tell which finger came down first and so forth."
Maybe... if you are talking about a key that was pressed twice. Otherwise, forget it.
Yeah. About a teaspoon of salt. One grain for each embellishment.
This is true in all sports - and makes sense when you think about it. The primary function of the league is to generate income. Anything that gets in the way of that is counter to the reason they exist.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
How exactly does one put a price on moon rocks? And how exactly does this figure come into the millions?
Is there a big market for moon rocks outside of ebay?
You can't take the sky from me.
The mix of the three glows under blacklight, and by paying careful attention to the absorption of the powder it is possible to tell which finger came down first and so forth. It doesn't quite make sense that Thad could use this trick to figure out the exact sequence for all the codes, based off such rudimentary information. But once Thad had eventually thrown his whole weight against the vault door, the two were inside.
This is the kind of stuff crappy TV and movie writers have to put in to get through the hard parts or when they can't think of anything else. Sort of like when the main character throws a pointless tantrum and throws all the pots and pans on the floor to "emote" and kill a few seconds until the next commercial. This is not believable at all.
Why are you talking about yourself in third person pronoun form again?
There really is a big difference between being 'book smart' and 'street smart'. I mean seriously. What did they think was going to happen when they put an ad online claiming that they have moon rocks for sale right after NASA's supply went missing?
The proper thing to have done (outside of not pulling this stupid heist in the first place, or course) would have been to flee to another country in the eastern hemisphere and sold them there, making enough money in the process to never have to come back to the US again.
As the seconds crept onward, Thad continued to struggle with the code, so he quickly moved to plan B, which involved unbolting the heavy safe from the ground, loading it on to a small dolly and carting it back out to the car. It wasn't easy, but within the remaining time allotted to them, the two managed to slip out of the vault,
In less than three minutes they unbolted a heavy safe from the floor and hoisted it onto a small dolly. No doubt they had a couple of big wrenches, plenty of WD-40, and maybe even some paint stripper, in case there was an annoying coat of enamel on the bolts. Bad TV yet again.
please oh please
yeah yeah this isn't fark, but how often do we get cute female cat burglars to ogle at?
http://www.baylor.edu/biology/index.php?id=32089 /would hit it
Look, these guys cannot figure out, for the life of them, how to get "back" to the moon. Keep pushing. If they could do it in 1969, it shouldn't need 30 more years.
Unless, of course, they never went. In which case, let the interns have the "moon rocks."
What BS. The other night they "proved" that Robin Hood couldn't have split an arrow with another arrow by using cheap factory-made lathe-turned arrows with grain running every-which-way. Since every arrow hit broke following the irregular grain near the nock they decided that NO ONE EVER could have split an arrow. I've actually seen a hand-made straight-grained arrow that had been split from nock to head, with the other arrow still embedded, so I know for a fact that their show was BS.
Even worse was the show where they tried to debunk the story of someone mounting a RATO (Rocket Assisted Take Off) bottle to their old Chevy Impala back in the 60s (when you could buy them surplus from the Air Force). Not having access to an actual JATO bottle, and too lazy and cheap to examine the actual plans and make a replica, the bozos cobbled together some POS rocket that probably didn't have enough thrust to get itself off the ground and put it on a car instead. Not surprisingly it failed, and now thousands of people believe that the story has been debunked.
I certainly don't object to the IDEA of their program, in fact I think it's a great idea. I just wish that they had hired someone who could actually do it RIGHT.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
That story is hilarious.
I hope these retards enjoy their felony convictions. If you're going to steal some rocks, make them easy ones to move on the street, like diamonds. Or better yet, steal cash.
If NASA's hiring people like these, it's pretty clear why the US space program hasn't done anything interesting since the 1970's.
I completely agree. They too often come to the conclusion that "we couldn't do it therefore nobody can!". Especially when dealing with 1 in a million odds...
I do not disagree with you in general; I have often had the same feeling about their shows. And I did not use the words "prove" or "disprove".
However, the section they did about heat sensors was pretty definitive. They had automatic heat sensors as well as infrared cameras. When they put on heavy wetsuits (thicker than the 2mm mentioned in TFA), and quickly entered the room (so the suits would not have time to heat up), their heat signatures were still clearly visible on the infrared camera, and they were unable to fool the automatic infrared detectors. However, later they did find at least 2 ways to fool the sensors that were surprisingly simple. But the wetsuits were a very obvious failure.
I also agree about the rocket-assisted car. They mounted the rockets on the roof, rather than at the rear, and angled them upward in a way that would prevent the car from getting airborne... what kind of test of the myth is that? (It should be noted, however, that the local police and State Patrol in the area the actual incident was supposed to have taken place, deny it completely and have no records of the event. If it really had happened, and I were a local, I would turn it into a museum dedicated to stupidity.)
I question the methodologies used by Mythbusters a lot of the time. And I happen to agree about the Robin Hood bit too. I have split arrows myself. Not the full length, and never on purpose, but it does happen. Maybe carbon fiber arrows split more readily than wood... but it just goes to show how many variables there are. And I think they could have done a great many others better, too. But this particular section (about fooling heat sensors) was well-done and very convincing. And somewhat surprising.
...Tiffany and Thad arranged the moon rocks on a bed--and had sex amongst them.
We can abolish this statement as heresy, in accordance with /. traditions.
The Moon Rocks were safe, as there was no 'actual' sex involved...fantasies do not count.
What?? /.!
This is
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
Robin Hood couldn't have split an arrow with another arrow
'Robin Hood' is generally considered to be a fictional character. There's about as much proof of his physical existence as there is of Jesus Christ's.
According TFA, the girls involved in the heist got off with freaking probation while the guys got 100 years.
Talk about bullshit justice system.
I worked as a NASA-JSC contractor for about 8 years on a number of different projects with different security requirements. These were all "man-rated" flight and control systems, not some research project with 3-D glasses and a fancy chair that moved.
I'm happy to report that not all security related work is this faulty in access control. We took our security VERY SERIOUSLY unlike the parent's team.
To my knowledge there wasn't a single mishandled classified item. Nobody shared access codes who wasn't authorized to perform that sharing. I never was authorized to share, therefore I never shared even with coworkers who I knew needed and were authorized access. They had to contact the security admin for the location to gain access. There wasn't any time when passwords were shared. Anyone who asked was reported to data security immediately.
Every time I met foreign nationals from "select countries", I was debriefed by our security officer. When a coworker started dating a Persian (Iranian), that person was moved to a different position with less sensitive access requirements. They were later married and stopped working for the government. The cold war was still on for part of this time.
Most of the folks I've worked with at and around NASA-JSC were unbelievably honest, hardworking and smart. They felt honored to have their positions and do something important for themselves and our country. That includes some interns. A few interns had an air of "privilege" and I hope they weren't hired. That type of attitude is always a concern for any position at any age.
I question the methodologies used by Mythbusters a lot of the time. And I happen to agree about the Robin Hood bit too. I have split arrows myself. Not the full length, and never on purpose, but it does happen. Maybe carbon fiber arrows split more readily than wood... but it just goes to show how many variables there are.
Others did too, where they can, they re-test it. Using reeds as arrows, they got someone to split it repeatedly. It just didn't seem plausible with "regular" wooden ones.
OK.. for starters, the arrow thing. You never said you saw the arrow being split, just that you saw a "split" arrow. I could go in my shop and make one for you in about 5 minutes. They did test with cheap arrows at first, then went and found straight grain arrows to test with again. They proved that its nearly impossible to split an arrow unless it's made of bamboo. You probably missed that part while you were getting a beer.. again. This was debunked strictly because they were unable to replicate the myth, and were unable to find any evidence that this had actually happened, anywhere.
The rocket car.. The air force has never sold working RATO/JATO engines to anyone. Ever. They confirmed this. The FIRST time they tried it, the rockets they used were 3 hobby engines chained to produce the same thrust as a RATO engine. They brought in rocket experts to do the math. Now, if your talking about the SECOND time they tried it, they did have a single engine custom made for them to JATO specs by a rocket manufacturer. It was not cobbled together. It exploded on launch due to some defect in the fuel pack. They debunked the car myth because no one has any evidence the original event ever happened. No police reports, no death or missing person reports, no missing RATOs.. nothing. not a singed hair or crushed tire to be found besides the text on your computer screen.
Now, yes, I will say that occasional I do yell at the TV when they are doing something plainly wrong, but I do think that most of their effort is reasonable. Next time try watching more than ten minutes of an episode before you launch into bald faced inaccuracies, you twit. penis.
Dirty Pirate Hooker
Odyssey 5.
Damned Synthetics!
Belgian Rockhound who was approached by the thieves, he's very well known in the mineral collecting world. V-President of a European mineralogical group, details of which I won't share to protect his privacy.
He contacted the FBI, and together with them set up the "buy" in FL. I've seen the letters of thanks he received from NASA and the FBI Director of the time.
So I can vouch for that part of the story. I don't think the theft was particularly hi-tech... my impression is more of a pink panther of crime, really. After all, they stole the rocks without rounding up customers willing to keep quiet first.
If the game isn't perceived as fair, the sport will suffer. And the NBA has definitely suffered in the last decade or so. What does it tell you when the line in Vegas changes after certain referees (Joey Crawford, in this instance) are announced for a game?
(-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
Who cares, Kari Byron is hot.
How is this a troll?
This ain't rocket surgery.
On the rocket car show, they concluded that it was busted, not based on their experiment, but on the fact that all the local officials in the area deny that it happened. I think they do a good job on the smaller, cheaper to perform myths (the double dipping one they did recently was very well done), and provide great entertainment value on the more expensive myths.
In 2004, thieves did the same thing in Malta, and stole a $5M Moon Rock
yeah you moderators really rock.
"How is this a troll?" is really bad trolling. What a provocative statement. The GP is going over the top with his last few words but even that doesn't really make him a troll.
AFAIR the actual Moon suits never returned to Earth. They were left in the ascent stage of the Lunar Module after the crew transferred back into the tiny Command Module in Moon orbit. There just wasn't space (so to speak) in the Command Module for them and it wasn't like they were going to be used again.
one movie heated the room to 38c, so the persons heat matched the background.
Did they try this?
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
Watching startrek and stargate too
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
Well, I have seen one being split.
They were unable to find evidence because their researchers are lazy. Here, in just a few minutes, you've heard from two people who've seen arrows split. Visit archery forums and you'll find hundreds more.
Which is typical of the Mythbusters - when their lazy and half ass methods fail to replicate a myth, they pronounced it busted and move on. And ignorant jackasses like yourself then propagate their claims.
That's true - but I don't think preferential treatment for superstars is a huge problem and you have to weigh that against the number of people they draw. How many quit watching because Pippen gets breaks compared to how many would quit watching if he doesn't play? I don't know but my guess is the second number is much larger than the first.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
They were unable to find evidence because their researchers are lazy. Here, in just a few minutes, you've heard from two people who've seen arrows split. Visit archery forums and you'll find hundreds more.
I've read the thread so far, did a casual search, can't find any evidence of a wooden arrow being split. I don't feel like searching any more so feel free to prove me wrong.
Well, there was a suit, and it wasn't there a few years later and the story went that it apparently got taken back by NASA for cleaning because they left stuff on it.
Thank you so much for your post. I thought I was the only geek that saw through the bullshit that is Mythbusters!
A quick search on YouTube for "split arrow" debunks their claim of it not being possible to pull off the "Robin Hood" shot. They sure didn't try very hard.
I have yet to see an episode of Mythbusters where I didn't have a major problem with their methodology.
It makes me sad that so many people think these guys are applying scientific rigor. They are doing a great disservice to geeks everywhere.
Knowledge != Intelligence
http://xkcd.com/397/
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
On the moon, nerds get their pants pulled down and they are spanked with moon rocks
Carmel, good story. From my point of view things were so very different. Thad stole those rocks from NASA because he was mad and upset about not making the cut. He wanted to be an astronuat, NASA said no. When I met Tiffany and Thad in Florida and discovered that the rocks had come from NASA I told them how much trouble we were all in. They could have cared less, and from what they told me they just drove into NASA and drove out with the safe. There was no high tech plan, and the only lock they came up against was a cypher lock, you know the ones with five buttons A B C D E, which surprisingly has over 350,000 possibilities. Thad told the FBI he just guessed, but I know he had help. Don't you think it strange that after this whole thing closed up CNN came out with a report that all the original video tapes of the Lunar Landing in 69 were lost? Not to mention the six folders that came up missing which was suppose to be in the safe Thad took. The Head Man at NASA said this was the real tragedy of our crime. When I asked Thad about those same folders he was honestly without a clue. Everything in that safe the Feds got back. There were no folders. Interesting to think that in 69 our country was so set to beat the Russians to the Moon that we may have staged the whole thing Hollywood style. Now, if we went back afterwards that's totally up to who you talk to, but I for one am convinced the initial Lunar Landing did not happen. This in no way deminishes our crime. If those Lunar Samples were actually rocks from Arizona then still they were the property of NASA and we had no right to take them. Carmel, there is a much bigger story here than meets the eye, but I doubt you want to find yourself scrutinized too closely by those in powerful positions. As for me, I am so very grateful we got caught. I am grateful I went to prison, and the girls did not. I needed it. Thad needed it. That boys ego is the size of the moon, and if prison helped deflate that some, then yes, Thad did well to go to prison. Another thing, Carmel, Emmerman was never in Florida. Two FBI agents played the part of Emmerman and his sister in law. Emmerman stayed in Belgium, and the debt he talked about was that of the nation of Belgium who had a certain bill with NASA that was cleared thanks to Emmerman and Belgiums cooperation in this matter. I'm not sure if what you are after is a romantic semi-nonfiction story, but if so you've hit it on the nail, if you are after a more investigative, what really happened, story...well, your readers are the ones that decide that... Again, good story, though. Enjoyed the new look to it...more Hollywood Style the better. Can't wait till I am 60 years old watching our crime finally hit the silver screen. That movie will be so full of creative allowances there won't be a shred of reality to it. LOL
no hes right happens to me too in opera an FF
There were a lot of suits used in testing and training, pretty much identical to the ones that actually went to the Moon. Some of these extra suits were loaned out for public exhibits and displays -- I recall hearing about a suit on display at a Star Trek convention which had one of the quick-detachable gloves stolen from it.
The Command Module is about the size of a compact car internally, and it was the only part of the Apollo mission hardware that returned to Earth. The crew wore pressure suits on launch and descent but they weren't the full Moon suits with external backpacks, cooling systems, radios etc.