Replacing New Hampshire's Old Man of the Mountain

Holdstrong writes "New Hampshire's iconic natural rock formation, the Old Man of the Mountain, fell from its mountain-side perch back in 2003. Award-winning architect Francis D. Treves is proposing a monument to replace it. His idea would feature a replica of the Old Man made out of 250 suspended glass panels and would allow visitors to enter the structure in order to gain views of the valley below. The design has received harsh criticism from the public, in part, Mr. Treves believes, due to the fact that quality images and accurate information about his design have been hard to come by. Replacing a beloved natural monument with a man-made one is sure to bring out emotions. Will a clearer understanding of the design help sway public opinion?"

Comments

Just what I was looking for

[sokoban]

You know, I was trying to come up with something about which I could be completely ambivalent and not care about one way or the other in the slightest.

Then I found this on slashdot.

Slashdot: News for New Hampshire. Stuff that doesn't matter at all.

Re:Just what I was looking for

[eclectro]

I know you are a slashdot old-timer such as myself and therefore do not read the fine articles. Because I question what self-professing nerd would think that this wasn't cool. Even if for but a second before your environmentalist knee-jerk happens.

Re:Just what I was looking for

[Z00L00K]

I was in that area last summer, and I think that any construction shall be thoroughly considered before approved in that area.

It's a nice area as it is, and the missing face is of course a loss, but it also indicates to us the inevitable change that exists.

It won't be a Mt. Rushmore.

Re:Just what I was looking for

[Hurricane78]

No. It isn't cool. It's boring. A cooler construction similar to that is the face of the building of a local bank here. Including a whole tree *on the inside*.

Wanna see *really cool architecture design*? Then go look at the 09 competition on this site: http://www.evolo-arch.com/

Re:Just what I was looking for

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to admit that I've never been to New Hampshire, where the most interesting thing that state has/had going for it is the formation of a cliff that kind of looked like the face of an old man when viewed from a certain angle. New Hampshire is so boring that they literally put this arbitrary geological formation on their state coin. The "face" finally collapsed in 2003, causing many to be so distressed that they literally cried.

WHERE'S YOUR OLD MAN NOW? New Hampshire's Tourism Industry: 0, Me: 1. To be fair, having a rock that sort of looks like a face as your state symbol is like diving into a tub full of tits when compared to Idaho, where there's so little going on that they proudly proclaim how famous their potatoes are on their license plates. Are you kidding me? Celebrities are famous. Landmarks are famous. The starchy, underground stems of plants that are used for deep frying side dishes are not. Wow, your state vegetable is a tuber. SNORE.

Re:Just what I was looking for

[tedgyz]

Hey I'm Plymouth, New Hampshire you insensitive clod.

Me too. Live free and die!

Re:Just what I was looking for

[FredFredrickson]

Geez, I've spent all this time thinking it was "Live, freeze, and die."

*grumble grumble*

Re:Just what I was looking for

[FredFredrickson]

Thank you, Captain, you certainly live up to your name. You did miss one important nit- I really doubt most of those designs would stay up given a slight breeze. Oh, and the few that look robust have clearly illustrated that the buildings are for nothing more than looking pretty, and have very little practical use (take the disolved looking building with tons of scaffolding, but not a single room..?)

Re:Just what I was looking for

[twistedsymphony]

I'm in NH also... I never really cared much for the old man, I mean it was kind of an interesting thing to look at and I'd occasionally bring friends from out of state to see it if we happened to be going through the area where it was located.

It didn't make me sad at all when it fell, I actually laughed because the state put that image on everything, coins, badges, logos, anything state related had the tied old man on it. Now they have to be a bit more creative when thinking up new state symbols. The face was slowly sliding apart for YEARS before it fell, there was a small crew that would add hooks and cables to the damn thing every year to keep it from sliding off, really it was just postponing the inevitable.

Personally I like NH, the cost of living is relatively cheap, taxes are some of the lowest in the country, and the state politics (while no where near perfect) are a lot more pleasing than nearly all the other states out there IMO.

I think the proposed glass replacement is a great idea I'd like to see more modern architecture here in the state, a visitors center would be good for tourism and a glass replacement would make the face look like a ghost, certainly better than the shapeless lump that sits up there now. I don't know why people would oppose this for ascetic or historical reasons, I mean it's not like the the old face will grow back. If you wait much longer people will forget the damn thing even existed, honestly I hadn't even thought about it for years until I saw this article.

Re:Just what I was looking for

[DrLang21]

This whole glass monument thing just seems like someone's attempt at a money grab. Otherwise the creator wouldn't be telling the locals that he knows better than they do.

Re:Just what I was looking for

[cab_codespring]

I live in NH too and I have glimpsed the unremarkable almost face driving by and was prfoundly unimpressed. Why don't they put up a stone face of an old man that REALLY looks like a stone face of an old man, a la Easter Island. People will drive by and say "OMG loko at THAT! is that NATURAL? Amazing! They could even put robotics in it so that the mouth could move and boom out "LIVE FREE OR DIE" to passing motorists, and maybe a winking eye too. now THAT would be worthy of coins and license plates.

Re:Just what I was looking for

[nuclearpenguins]

As a resident of southern Maine let me be the first to say thank you for those additions to my childhood. Actually my family made many day trips to NH to experience all that state had to offer. Climbing Tuckerman's Ravine in the middle of a sudden thunder storm was an experience I'll never forget. This is probably off-topic but I don't care. NH is an awesome state.

Re:Just what I was looking for

[dirtylimerick]

A few things I haven't seen mentioned yet ...

A lot of the respect and appeal of the Old Man comes from Daniel Webster's quote "Men hang out their signs indicative of their respective trades; shoe makers hang out a gigantic shoe; jewelers a monster watch, and the dentist hangs out a gold tooth; but up in the Mountains of New Hampshire, God Almighty has hung out a sign to show that there He makes men." Daniel Webster and his ability to debate and orate is historically more respected and revered then any other person in New Hampshire's history, including the one NH-born president Franklin Pierce, and Gen. John Stark (who is responsible for the source of the state motto "Live Free or Die: Death is not the worst of evils"). That has a great deal to do with why the Old Man was such a significant source of pride and interest in New Hampshire, and not just a coincidental pile of rocks.

In terms of its structure, if you've ever seen it, it's pretty clear that the rocks comprising the Old Man's face protrudes from a sheer granite rock face and looks completely un-natural compared to the rest of the landscape of the White Mountains. It's un-natural appearance makes the fact that it was naturally formed by receding glaciers at least a little interesting and significant. Additionally, it's gradual decay over the decades since it was discovered has made for a well recorded indicator of how the mountains of NH are evolving and changing over time. Since NH's greatest asset is it's environmental resources, it's important!

Even if you consider the only positive aspect of the Old Man to be it's contribution to the NH tourism industry, that contribution has been playing a major role in keeping me free of sales tax, income tax, excise tax, excessive tolls, and every other kind of bureaucratic fee known to man for about 30 years now. You know what I pay for a $0.99 pack of gum? F@#*ing $0.99! I use three Old Man of the Mountain quarters and whatever coins I find under the seat of my cheaply insured car. The money it's saved me in my lifetime is more then enough for me to want a tribute to it erected. MA, CT, NY, NJ, and Canadian tourists will be paying for it anyway. Even since the Old Man fell, NH's tourism industry hasn't seen a serious decline (excluding the current world-wide recession).

As far as the proposed replacement, it's much better then previous home-brew ideas. The article referenced in the main post also doesn't make mention of just how visitors will get to the new monument. Cannon Mountain, which abuts Profile Mountain's peak, in any season or condition, is a pretty brutal climb, with no current trails leading to the rock face where the old man was. If they successfully address that issue, there's a lot more of an overall experience to visiting this monument then is immediately apparent, which may bring even more interest in the site then before where the average tourist just stopped by the side of the road, looked at it, bought a magnet, and moved on.

Greatest state in the union. Deal with it.

Man-made is not the problem

[BadAnalogyGuy]

Humans have an uncanny knack for finding faces in randomness. It's been said that this is an evolutionary feature. This explains why we sometimes think we see ghosts or Virgin Maries or even Jesus on the asses of dogs. But in reality, it's nothing more than our brain cleverly interpreting the random patterns into something we can easily comprehend.

So when the Old Man of the Mountain crumbled, we didn't just lose a pile of rocks. We lost one of our conceptual markers. Like the mountain in South Dakota that bears an uncanny resemblance to former presidents, this natural monument symbolizes a very dear slice of our history. To have lost it to nature is a blow to not only New Hampshire but our own national pride as Americans.

However simply replacing it with a glass structure is not necessarily the right thing to do. One key aspect of the monument was its permanence and impenetratibility. By replicating the shape in glass, the monument loses both aspects. It would be, in other words, better to have simply left the rubble alone.

I would encourage you to write your congressmen and representatives to stop this wrong-headed "artistic" solution. In Afghanistan, where the Taliban destroyed centuries-old statues, they are rebuilding them in stone. So too should the majesty of the stone face be returned in stone form.

Re:Man-made is not the problem

[Qubit]

In Afghanistan, where the Taliban destroyed centuries-old statues, they are rebuilding them in stone. So too should the majesty of the stone face be returned in stone form.

If someone had gone and blown up the Old Man then I would be gung-ho to rebuild it as it was, but the Old Man just let go of his own accord. He'd been up there for what -- a few thousand years? And we'd gone and given him a facelift with cables and such a couple of times already.

If the Old Man of the Mountain finally fell down, then perhaps he should stay down where he fell. I like the idea of working in stone, as it's durable to last for another thousand years -- maybe taking the stone that fell down and building something lower-down on the slope? Part of the draw of the whole thing was the natural aspect of it. Whatever is done, I hope that they try to work with nature rather than fighting against it every step of the way.

Re:Man-made is not the problem

[eclectro]

So too should the majesty of the stone face be returned in stone form.

Maybe a compromise could be reached. They could rebuild the face in stone but put windows in where the eyes are. Then at night they could turn on the red lights.

That's right. New Hampshire would suddenly become the most kick-ass state in the union.

Re:Man-made is not the problem

[Zontar The Mindless]

Whoosh yourself. :)

Re:Man-made is not the problem

[Jesus_666]

According to Wikipedia, the planned monument will actually "include five huge stones that, viewed from a raised platform, merge into a form that recreates the profile outline". There's even a website about it, which lends a bit of credibility to that version as it's part of nh.gov.

That glass thing is just one artist's concept.

Re:Man-made is not the problem

[mlush]

Like the mountain in South Dakota that bears an uncanny resemblance to former presidents...

You wouldn't by any chance be referring to Mount Rushmore, would you?

No, he's talking about Mount Tushmore, easy mistake to make its not on many tourist maps

Re:Man-made is not the problem

[AliasMarlowe]

If the Old Man of the Mountain finally fell down, then perhaps he should stay down where he fell.

Agree completely. Its appeal was that it was natural, not artificial.
Now, if something is to be built as a replacement tourist attraction in Franconia Crotch^WNotch, let's make it the "Young hottie of the mountain". This would obviously be politically correct, as it's a female replacing a male. It would also be acceptable to most males, provided the hottie is done artistically (i.e. featuring the naughty bits).

I'd have to say yes

[cptnapalm]

"Replacing a beloved natural monument with a man-made one is sure to bring out emotions. Will a clearer understanding of the design help sway public opinion?"

Definitely. They will be more accurate with their condemnations.

|You wouldn't know it was gone...

[Bazman]

I was in New Hampshire as a tourist from England with a friend from San Diego. She knew NH had this Old Man rock formation thing, and so we went to see it. We parked the car, and wandered along the track towards the lake, eyes up on the skyline waiting for this rock formation to appear round the corner from the hillside. But it didn't. It was September 2007. We'd got all the way to the viewpoint before we saw any mention of the fact it had fallen off four years earlier.

There were quite a few visitors there pointing at the empty space where the Old Man used to be.

Re:|You wouldn't know it was gone...

[PhilHibbs]

There were quite a few other idiots there pointing at the empty space where the Old Man used to be.

Fixed.

If the stone one fell...

[Anonymous Coward]

The old man fell when he was made of stone! Now you want to remake him with glass?!

Great plan...

Leave the rubble alone

[Opportunist]

Sorry for calling it "rubble", but it is. Before you get that wrong, that was exactly what made it special. It was a natural formation that had a remarkable, curious structure. You cannot "remake" that. Should Old Faithful stop spewing, are you going to replace it with a pumping structure? In what way is that special? I could dig a hole right here and install a water pump.

What made this monument a monument was that it was a natural curiosity. Remaking it cheapens it.

Re:Leave the rubble alone

[Triv]

What made this monument a monument was that it was a natural curiosity. Remaking it cheapens it.

Remaking it brings in tourist revenue for a site that was so much a part of the area's character that its profile is on thousands of road signs. NH is a small and curious state; losing the mountain man was akin to filling in the Grand Canyon with a backhoe. Not eulogizing it somehow is unthinkable.

Re:Leave the rubble alone

[Another, completely]

What made this monument a monument was that it was a natural curiosity. Remaking it cheapens it.

I can understand that it's nothing like a replacement, but is it such a bad alternative? Rebuilding it as a stone reconstruction would really cheapen it (trying to re-create nature misses the point), but at the moment it's just a nice view that gets a number of confused tourists, right? It sounds like as good a place for a large art installation as any. Isn't the only real alternative to just leave it as a nice walking trail that will eventually fall into disuse?

Re:Leave the rubble alone

[Z00L00K]

Just be careful with what you do in the area. The view is really nice, as you can see in some images I have from last summer:

http://www.bedug.com/?q=gallery&g2_itemId=2931

(Now I'm probably going to get slashdotted! :-P )

Re:Leave the rubble alone

[Saint Fnordius]

I'm intrigued by the idea of this monument. It seems to turn what was once the landmark of Franconia Notch into a viewing platform to see the valley's natural beauty. And the highway that runs up through it. Er.

The interesting part is putting it in where the original Old Man used to be, and shaping it to resemble the original rock formation. A homage without trying to rebuild, and that makes sense.

My main quibble would be the amount of construction needed. How does the architect plan to get the materials and the machines up there and back out without causing a lot of damage to the environment? How would it be supplied with electricity and sewage? And how the heck do visitors get there? Will the current parking area be converted? And finally, is the view by itself worth it?

I was born in New Hampshire, and so I feel some attachment to the area. If this becomes a monument to the beauty of Franconia Notch without spoiling it, then I am for it. But only if that's the case. We don't need another monument to something that the monument itself paved over.

Re:Leave the rubble alone

[argStyopa]

"...losing the mountain man was akin to filling in the Grand Canyon with a backhoe..."

Um no, you have your metaphor reversed.
Losing the mountain man would be as if the Grand Canyon somehow naturally filled in, and you DUG IT OUT with a backhoe. Would that be impressive at all? I think not.

I'm not sure if it comes from our increasingly transitory society and general rootlessness, but there seems to be this juvenile preoccupation with KEEPING THINGS THE SAME.

Look, the 'balancing rock' tips over, the 'old man of the mountain' sloughs off, the Appalachians wear away. It used to be that people were so busy staying alive and fending off sabretooths that they didn't care about this stuff, it just happened. Now, when we have a basically safe society people want it and the world around it to ossify and STOP changing - witness the efforts to 'fix' various languages the way they are today, or even this obsession with global climate change. Hell, one could even point to the Baby Boomers who keep pillaging our childhoods for movie fodder, desperate to recapture 'then' and bring it to now.

People: there is no conceivable future that doesn't include change. This pervasive change starts at the personal and extends to the climatological and geological. At some point you have to grow up and accept that it happens, adapt, and move on.

Taking Craps on Beautiful Places

[WankersRevenge]

The Franconia Notch has been my favorite hiking spot for years. From climbing up to Lonesome Lake to walking down the Flume, I think it is the one place in all of New Hampshire to stand up to the grandeur of places such as Yosemite. Climbing up along the ridge on top of Mount Lafayette is an amazing experience. One of the trails winds up along thirty foot waterfalls. At the top and on clear days, you can see the small black plume of smoke from a railroad car making its way up Mount Washington. The cliffs on Canon Mountain are just breathtaking as you drive by and look up at them.

The old man was just one natural attraction in a place full of them. The big problem with replacing it is that it would be like spray painting over a Da Vinci. Glass or otherwise. The old man was an amazing natural formation, but it is gone. I hope that they don't a dump over a truly beautiful place just so people can relive the past. I thought that was what pictures were for.

Stop your sobbing

[Jonas Buyl]

The mountain died. Get over it.

Set from the next Austin Powers?

[Shivetya]

Because all I get from this obnoxious idea is some evil villains lair.

Honestly, does the guy not get it, that the original feature was created by nature is what made it special. Otherwise it would have been just another rock outcropping.

The only thing missing from his idea is the ability to sprout legs and arms and go marauding across the countryside.

Hey, nowwwww...

[Slartibartfast]

As an NH resident, well... wrong, sir, you're wrong!

That being said, while I do care about this -- even deeply (and probably in the "Nay" camp), I can't, for the life of me, figure out why it's on Slashdot.

Mountain Misnomer

[happy_place]

I always think it's funny when anyone mentions "Mountains" in any state east of Colorado. Buwahahaha.

Re:Mountain Misnomer

[mwarps]

What's funny is that most NH mountains are more prominent than anything in Colorado. Colorado is on a massive elevated plain, and what counts for "mountains" are dinky hills, which we have plenty of here in the Granite state, as well.

Re:Mountain Misnomer

[junkfish]

Appalachian are a lot older than those spry rockies mid continent. I believe they surpassed the heights of the rockies before the glacier took them out. They were mountains while the rockies were foothills.

Re:Mountain Misnomer

[potat0man]

Being a New Hampshire hiker that hurts.

Reminds me though of my Colorado friend who was bragging to me about how he hiked two 12,000 ft mountains in one day.

Me: "Wow, what elevation did you start at?"

Colorado Friend: "10,800"

Me: Blank Stare

Give me a break, in New Hampshire we have to climb 1,200 feet to get to the foot of the mountain.

Scaling a mountain in Colorado's only impressive if you start in Nebraska.

I've got an idea

[elrous0]

How about they build a giant monument to the concept of Pareidolia and the public fascination with seeing old men in rock formations, Elvis in potato chips, and the Virgin Mary in highway overpass stains?

Disagree

[dachshund]

The old man was just one natural attraction in a place full of them.

And I think most people would agree with that, after they made the trip. At the end of the day, the Old Man was just a lump of rock. It may have been the ostensible destination that pulled people out of their apartments to take a trip to the country, but I'll bet most of them were more impressed by the journey than by its resolution. And that journey could include all of those things you mention.

It would be a shame if people just stayed home, thinking "oh, there's nothing there to see anymore".