Slashdot Mirror
No Museum Status For UK Home of Enigma Machine
hardsix writes "Despite the numerous films, books and plays, celebrating the brilliant achievements of the code-breakers at Bletchley Park, the UK government is still dragging its feet over providing proper support for the site. There has just been a debate in the House of Lords over whether the site should be given similar status to the UK's main WWII museum — the Imperial War Museum. But the government has brushed off the request, claiming that the site has received enough funding recently.
However, as was shown by a visit to the site by UK actor, and Twitter-lover Stephen Fry, although devices such as Enigma have been restored many of the huts where the code-breaking work went on are in a bad state and more investment is needed."
At one time, this thing was the most critical machine in the entire world. Should that alone be cause to save it?
In this world of plastic Tonka trucks and biodegradable Mercedes Benzii, how much extra room do we have for something that is no longer useful? Clearly our priorities aren't on preserving the past. Nor are our priorities to create anything of lasting value. Everything must be created for today to be discarded tomorrow.
Should it be any surprise that an old computing device should be disregarded? This is how we think nowadays. It's only going to be a problem if our culture ever decides that lasting meaningfulness is something we want to preserve. Otherwise, the old can go to rust in peace.
Why the British government would drag is feet on something like this is an Enigma to me.
There is also a petition to the government to help save Bletchley Park on the number 10 web site.
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/BletchleyPark/
Sorry but I like when green spaces stay green. Just because some smart people broke codes while sitting on a park bench doesn't mean that you should put a dome on top of it.
... but I can't help but thinking that the current British government still doesn't want to call too much attention to what their predecessors did to poor Alan Turing.
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
I seriously think the government has a problem with Bletchley park in that they were responsible for it's greatest figurehead, Alan Turing's death.
Turing was one of the main founders of modern computing, one of the mathematical greats and he used his abilities to help end the war early by preventing the German war machine keeping it's military secrets, undoubtedly many lives are owed to him.
Of course, for those that don't know his story, in the 50s he was convicted of being gay, something that was illegal at the time and was forced into hormone therapy to try and "cure" him of his homosexuality. This effected the one thing he had and held dearly - his mind, and so he committed suicide (or possibly was assassinated, but that seems unlikely) in 1954.
To this day I believe the British governments through the ages have failed to accept that their parties were responsible for the death of one of the greatest Britons of all time, and I believe the shunning of Bletchley park is a continuation of their refusal to accept that they are at fault for both Turing's death and the lack of realisation of how important Turing and Bletchley was to the British war effort.
At school we're taught about some of the greatest British engineers of all time such as Isambard Kingdom Brunel, we're taught about our kings and queens, we're taught about our greatest military leaders, our greatest industrialists, but there is not a single mention of our computer scientists. If you killed loads of people in the name of Britain you'll be fine, if you helped push colonialism across the world you'll go down in history, but if you invent or help to invent the computer? arguably the single most important device of the last 50 years? Good luck your story every being well known.
The fact is, for over 60 years the successive British governments have failed computer science in the UK despite it being one of the most important countries in the world when it comes to it's developmental history from Turing to Berners-Lee to Ive (the guy who designed the iMac and iPod). The decision mentioned in the article is just further evidence of how backwards and ignorant the British government is - it cares about only a few minor sectors such as banking, and look how well that has done us - whilst the likes of Google were announcing record profits, banks had effectively failed. I believe this ignorance and a refusal to foster and support the field has cost the UK an IT industry that could truly have rivalled that of silicon valley.
IT was the home of the Colossus, which could decode messages encoded by the Enigma machines:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bletchley_park#Cryptanalysis
Please try and get the simple stuff right. It's what being a geek is about.
This article made me wonder what had happened to the stolen one... it was returned, after all.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/tvs-paxman-sent-stolen-enigma-machine-634351.html
Well - first we have doubt about Tesla's surviving to become a museum, and now this. However it goes for BP - and I do hope that it can be saved as a museum, here's a little reminder of a site that many /.ers know about - http://www.xat.nl/enigma-e/index.htm
The spirit of the machine will continue to thrive, it seems. I hope the same is true of BP, where Turing & company changed things for so many.
Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
What is going on here? Why are we neglecting Bletchley Park?
As a Brit and a CS PhD student, I am absolutely appalled by the Government's behaviour. Do they not understand, or are they trying to ignore what happened to Turing?
Surely, the time has come for some form of protest? Anyone got any ideas?
RS
"At one time, this thing was the most critical machine in the entire world. Should that alone be cause to save it?"
The machines have been restored, it's the huts where they worked that are falling down. I appreciate the signifigance of the code-breakers efforts but having travelled the length and breadth of the UK I realise you cannot go 10 feet without tripping over something with historical significance. The artifacts could be housed in an existing museam but if they want to save the huts they need to make them usefull, perhaps renovate and house a modern sigint team? From what I saw, the military in the UK often share castles/forts with the historically inquisitive.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
UK government members received this message shortly after the news that they wouldn't be funding the upkeep of Bletchley Park:
"Hp gvdl zpvstfmg, qbsmjbnfou."
"Study your math, kids. Key to the universe." -The Archangel Gabriel
Comment removed based on user account deletion
For those of you not familiar with ROT13, that deciphers to:
"Uc tiqy mcifgszt, dofzwoasbh."
Museums have a place, in history, i.e. contemporary history in that they preserve that past.
However, I understand that not all places that housed an ingenious activitity or scientific discovery must stand untouched. At least that is how I read the government's remarks.
The issue must be however, does one need to save the building to save he Enigma machine? I don't think so.
The Enigma machine may very well have a special place at a WWII museum or a technological museum.
However nice the environments are at Bletchely Park, they most probably were not crucial to the Enigma machine. Well, think of Bletchely Park without the Enigma and think of the Enigma without Bletchely Park.
I believe the Enigma apparatus has a greater place in Britsh history than the house itself. In fact, Alan Turing had a more important place than that house.
Well, of course one could save the house too, if one can afford it. And, that is always the real issue. Museums do have an important and functional place, in contemporary history.
FWIW, the actual text of what was said in the Lords can be found ont he Parliament website: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200809/ldhansrd/text/90519-0001.htm#09051975000669
But there is more to it than that, Bletchley park has been crying out for money for years and has been ignored over a long time. Very few politicians have a scientific background and don't understand or care about this sort of thing.
What rate of return would this investment receive?
Don't get me wrong - there's huge historical significance here - but only politicians use weasel words like 'investment' to describe state grants.
I visited the Bletchley Park museum last time I was in Milton Keynes on business. As you'll see from the link in the article, it's a fascinating site and an interesting collection, complete with reconstructions of the Bombe and Collossus. The place seems in pretty good shape and pretty well supported; lots of plaques announcing funding from big corporates (IBM, I seem to remember)—better funded, certainly, than a lot of museums.
It recently got a grant from English Heritage, the UK government agency responsible for supporting museums and sites of historical interest. This story is about it not getting a direct grant from the Department for Culture, Media and Sport (but that's not how most of our museums are funded anyway).
It was clear that it is the huts that are decaying rather than the whole place. These were temporary buildings put up in the 1940s so they were never meant to last this long. The problem is this: what can you really do with a building like that which is nearly 70 years old? The huts that have been renovated appear to have been largely rebuilt, so they don't genuinely feel like the real thing.
These huts are historically significant, but then so are a lot of other WW2 sites that have since been demolished. In fact, the vast majority of temporary buildings on the BP site were cleared away decades ago. Is there anything to gain by maintaining these essentially un-maintainable structures?
Since the work at BP became public (in the 1980s!), a great deal of effort has been made to document what went on there, acknowledge the roles of individuals and teams and to make clear what a crucial effect it had on the outcome of the war. Original Enigma and Lorenz machines are on display, plus a rebuild of Colossus, the Bombes and other equipment. Most of the museum is housed in good old-fashioned brick buildings that are not going to fall down any time soon. The work at BP will not be forgotten no matter what happens to the huts. I'm not saying that BP doesn't need money.. they clearly do, but maybe the huts are not the way to go.
Somebody said in another post that you can't go very far in the UK (especially the part where I live) without tripping over something of historical significance (if I turn around I can see the hangars where the built the R101, for example). We can't preserve everything, and I think perhaps with BP this is also the case.
Never email donotemail@WeAreSpammers.com
if stephen fry and his like are so concerned then he and his contacts could easily raise the funds necesary to keep this thing up-to-date and repaired. the gov't shouldn't be relied on for everything.
Anyone on L.I. or in N.Y., there is an event scheduled on May 30 to Save Tesla's Wardenclyffe Laboratory.
but he annoys too many people to be effective.
http://www.markthomasinfo.com/
I have to admit I find him amusing, even if I don't agree with all his politics...
-- For evil to triumph it is enough that good men do nothing.
I've been there a few times. It's so sad that our government do not credit this place with the importance that it deserves. WWII would have lasted longer and many more lives lost without Bletchley Park - surely that's worth investment? The people there as so dedicated and the exhibits so fascinating I would hate for this to go. The Labour Party should be ashamed of themselves. I personally have donated and buy year season tickets in order to help out. If I had spare time I would volunteer my time and IT expertise FOC. And yet they seem to have no problem in paying for MP's moats, duck houses, overpriced furniture etc etc etc - talk about priorites. I've finished now.
Marian Rejewski, Jerzy Rozycki and Henryk Zygalski did it. That's why the UK government can't be bother with the whole thing too much.
Enigma was broken by Polish cryptographers, not UK ones. British government isn't happy to announce that fact.
:wq
The issue must be however, does one need to save the building to save he Enigma machine? I don't think so.
I strongly agree - if for no other reason than because Enigma machines were the _German_ devices that generated the codes... The British contribution was Colossus, the electronic computing device that was developed to help break codes. What is more, the original Colossus was completely destroyed after the war in the interest of state security. What is currently housed at Bletchley Park is a replica that was finished a couple of years ago by some of the original engineers and a variety of enthusiasts (there is, of course, also an Enigma machine and some other code-breaking miscellanea).
Personally, I think that the collection and the site are worth preserving, but perhaps not in the sense of restoring the full camp. As many others have pointed out, they are temporary army huts that have long outlasted their original purpose. If a couple were restored to house the collection and provide a sense of the environment, I think that would be sufficient. The rest should probably be razed to the ground so they cease to be a burden that drags the whole effort down.
What do you expect from a socialist government who, if it had been in power before and during the war, would have given in to Hitler's regime. These are the same morons who believe active intelligence (as opposed to passive) is uncouth. To them, preserving this watershed moment in history would be akin to glorifying war. It's no different than people who monday-morning-qb the dropping of the atomic bomb. To them I say that act saved more than a million lives because the Japanese were fully prepared for an Allied invasion.
The British government can't spare the funds for a Bletchley Park program. It's too busy funding second homes, moat cleanings, servants, and X-rated films for its MPs. Let's get priorities straight, shall we?
Perhaps if everyone in the slashdot community donated the price of a beer to the cause it will give Bletchley the resources needed for it survive, and show the British Government that people care about it.
OT: Hut 33 is a brilliant comedy by the BBC set during the era of code-cracking Bletchley Park http://wapedia.mobi/en/Hut_33
Ditto, from over 500 miles away. (OK, the parents live only 40 miles away, so it's not really that extreme a trip [G].)
Put your money where your mouth is - sign up as a "Friend of Bletchley Park", which provides them with a steady income stream (your subscription, plus whatever you decide on as a regular commitment - I'm in for GBP20/year), another body to include in the count when they say to government (and other) funding bodies that "we have so-many supporters, in addition to so-many-else visitors per year", and provides you with a moderately interesting magazine and a nice warm feeling in the electrons of your main processor (or your coolant/ nutrient pump, if that's what makes you tick).
What - you're still hesitating? Which part of
did you actually mean? Or did you only intend to contribute time, and not something of tangible utility?
BTW - when I offered them my PDP-11, including delivery from over 500 miles away - they weren't interested. "Got 5 already, mate" was the gist of the response. Oh well, it's living with a nerd in Stirling now, TTBOMK.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Why isn't there a way for the average computer and history buff to donate using Paypal or similar? Having tried to send money to Europe from the US in the past, it becomes a snarl of paperwork, and now we have to file with the government to prove the British Government is not a terrorist organization. Make it easy and people will support it.