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How To Help a Friend With an MMO Addiction?
sammydee writes "I have a friend who is addicted to an MMO (Pirates of the Burning Sea). On a typical day, he will wake up around 9am, browse the forums for a bit, then go online and stay online all day, playing until about 3am the following morning, taking only toilet breaks and stopping to eat ready-meals. While the rest of the house works hard revising for exams, this friend will be playing his MMO instead. Now, I am pretty confident that this comprises an unhealthy addiction; unfortunately, I have no idea what to do about it. Any attempt to physically prevent him from playing the game would most likely result in an outburst of anger and possibly physical violence. Attempts at telling him he has a problem have been met with derision and angry retorts. Slashdotters, what would you do to help out a friend in this situation? Perhaps you are a reformed addict yourself — if so, how did you break out of the habit? Or maybe I should just leave well enough alone and allow him to continue? Any thoughts are gratefully received."
Slashdotters, what would you do to help out a friend in this situation?
I used to live in a bad part of the Franklin neighborhood in Minneapolis. As I pulled up next to my house, two squad cars were parked in a V in my front lawn with their cherries on. I had just worked until 2am at a parking garage on the U of MN campus. There was an adolescent in front of my house being stared down by a policeman. As I walked up the cop was staring him down and holding a bag of weed saying very loudly and very forcefully, "... yeah? And what skills you got? What has this shit been doing for you? How long have you been using? What are you going to do when you're a grown up providing for yourself?"
... but maybe they aren't. I know how someone would approach me about this, they wouldn't try to stop me. Instead, they--being my friends--would appeal to things they know that matter to me. I'll try to list them in order that I think you can evoke a reaction from your friend:
While that's a lot more melodramatic than you need to be, you can put your friend in the same situation.
A man's got priorities. Your friend's sound screwed up
I've seen people give up several of these for an MMORPG (Star Wars Galaxies ruined lives). You need to sit down and talk to him and try to realign his priorities. You have to know him and know where he's going to bring that logic. If things don't matter to him anymore there's not a lot you can do once you've made all those appeals (and you may know more).
Slashdotters, what would you do to help out a friend in this situation? Perhaps you are a reformed addict yourself -- if so, how did you break out of the habit?
If I was spending too much time in a game it would take very little to cause me to get up and walk away: "Since you started playing that game, how much closer are you to being the person you want to be when you die?" Don't think that would work on your friend--especially if he has low self esteem.
... although I cannot fathom how that would be.
Most importantly if you convince him to stop, you need to be there for him to fill up that part of his life or to help see the value in realigning his goals.
Last thing is that if he isn't screwing up or endangering any of these things, you're going to have a hell of a hard time convincing him out of the game
My work here is dung.
Get some buddies, make some accounts, grief him until he quits.
Play Command HQ online
Sounds like this is taking place in a college setting. Don't worry about it. Darwin will always win. Your MMO addict will be getting a permanent chance to play all day forever back in Mom's basement after he flunks out. It's not your problem and don't try to make it be otherwise.
'nuff said.
Just curious if this particular individual is a room-mate.
If so, is he paying his portion of bills/rent?
If so, leave him be. All he can hurt is himself.
If not, kick him out. Maybe he'll come to his senses.
It's not a problem until he flunks out of school, gets booted from the house for not paying rent, and loses his computer and/or internet connection and/or Pirates subscription. His pleasure is at the expense of others, and his creditors are going to come calling sooner rather than later.
Girlfriend?!? Get him a hooker instead!
A hooker will see the money and perform. A girlfriend will want to evaluate his character, tell her friends, make him want to go out on dates and shit like that... and if all is good, will "perform".
Why do YOU feel obligated to do something here?
Sounds like the guy is a legal adult. Aside from voicing your concerns, butt the hell out. If the dude wants to slide through the first few years of post-highschool, or whatever, it IS his choice.
Like with any addiction, change doesn't come about until the addicted WANTS it to happen. Period.
as if this isnt just a lame spam, cmon /. you know better
I still don't see the problem. If he is homeless and without a computer or internet, he will no longer need to worry about being addicted to a game now will he?
Addicts need to hit bottom before you can re-rehabilitate them. Furthermore, it is not the OP's place to tell this person how to live their life. The only thing the OP can do is wait for the inevitable, and be there for this person when they do hit bottom. Any attempt to stop him from playing the game will only sour the OP's relationship with their friend.
You don't understand addiction if you think it something to be fought with logical persuasion. And you are probably normal in saying to ditch him, but really, I'm disgusted by how callous people are today. Friendships and relationships involve a little inconvenience, not just saying, 'well, I told him it's a bad idea, fuck him!'
Absolutely agree with this - sex is the remedy. Make the point that the guy isn't getting any and you are (hopefully), and it'll probably hurt enough to get him to start thinking about what he's missing out on by spending all his time playing Pirates.
Sex is an integral part of almost all humans, and we need it. Use this to your advantage.
I know a guy who had a pretty comfortable life. Nice house, pretty wife, three kids, good job, the whole shootin' match... and on top of that, he was the classic "undeserving" guy... didn't really know that much but was able to convince people that knew far less than him that he was quite adept. (We've all seen this and hated them for it yes?) Well this guy got into Diablo and literally let his life fall apart. He lost his job and couldn't keep one. Lost his wife and kids. Lost his house. Not sure what he is up to these days but he has definitely not owned up to his weakness. He probably plays WOW or something else now but I can't imagine that he has figured out where his life had gone wrong yet.
Some people have it in their heads, especially when they are in their mid 40s, that they are an adult and you can't tell them how to live their lives... it's his choice and he is happy where he us. (you know he's not though, not when you see everything he has lost in favor of his gaming addiction... one particular low point was when he landed a date with a hit young woman in her mid 20s. Who knows what she was thinking or what he said to spoil it, but she announced she thought of him as a "father figure" and that was pretty much the end of that... didn't handle rejection well and got himself drunk enough that he woke up on his front lawn having pissed himself completely and no idea how he even got home to begin with... the guy is a mess and his brain is hard wired to making stupid decisions.)
While I would LOVE to find a magic answer to help THIS guy out, I don't think there is any such way.
My suggestion would be, in one of the breif moments when he's off the game, get him to just come and talk to you, heck maybe even get some of your other friends to join, and keep him occupied in a social discussion for an hour or two to at least break the cycle once in a while. If that doesn't have a lasting effect, just talk to him by himself and say you're concerned about his wellbeing, ask him if he wants to spend all his life eating ready meals and sitting in front of a computer like a zombie.
Usually any addiction is a sign of something missing from the persons life, if you can find out what that is, maybe you can help him get over the cause rather than the effect.
Damn... the potentional for real life social interaction with ladies was all it took for me. Were my standards too low? You mean I could have gotten sex out of it? Damn...
Seriously though, you need to start going out, and often, to meet up with ladies in order to fix this. Since he won't be going with you, you don't have to be successful at all at meeting up with the ladies, just make sure he knows your intended goal every time you go out, be sure to have adventures, and be sure to talk about them non-stop around him.
At first, you should neglect to invite him, but be sure to have exchanges like "Should we invite Jim?" "Nah, he'll just say no and stay home to play his stupid game" within earshot of him. Then a few weeks later, actually ask him to go with you. By then he will probably have gotten jealous, and just might say yes. If so, and you can actually get him to have real-life physical relations with a lady - and I'm talking waaaay less than sex here - he'll probably lose interest in the game. Real life will be more exciting. ;)
On another note, is POTBC any good? I haven't played a steady MMO since I quit SW Galaxies, but I always wanted to play that one...
Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
I think people should mind their own bloody business personally. It's not like he's poisoning his body with drugs or alcohol or hurting other people with his "addiction".
How to help a friend? Leave them the hell alone to live their life how they want and stop being so bloody pretentious in thinking this person needs to be "saved".
Your friend needs help. Professional help. Your school probably has a psychological counseling office, but that's the sort of thing that he needs to seek himself. Confronting him, wrecking his account, getting him banned, or anything else is not going to help you or him at this point.
I say this because I've been that person. Same academic issues, same fixation on a game for social reinforcement (a MUX, in my case), and I'd wager that he's feeling just as depressed and afraid as I did when I was in that situation.
If you want to help him, get in touch with his family. Get in touch with his professors and the dean of his faculty. If he's religious, get in touch with his pastor. Chances are, none of them have any idea what's really going on. It's really easy to just grunt and shrug when someone asks how classes are going. They may have suspicions, but between their desire to treat him as an adult, and the shame and frustration he's feeling at being unable to cope, he doesn't feel like he can ask for help, and they don't feel like they can successfully confront him.
.........his life outside the game probably sucks. Assuming he is in school, he's probably going to fail his classes, and doesn't want to think about it. Thinking about it just makes him feel worse. Leaving his game world just makes him miserable. Who knows, maybe his mom just died too, or something and so in the real world, he's got all this pain, but in the game world he's kind of ok.
If he's going to leave, it's going to either be by force (ie, he can't pay for his apartment anymore, or you destroy his computer), or because he comes to believe that the outside world is something he can handle, that all the pain isn't really all that bad: it is something we all deal with and all can learn to face.
Go with the second option: just be his friend, make him food sometime or something, whatever. He absolutely knows he's messed up, so you telling him that won't help much. Just accept him (maybe even ask him what he did on WOW today, sometimes stuff like that works), and be prepared for a lot of negativeness that he'll throw at you before he's willing to trust you.
Also, if you want to understand the whole 'powerless to face the world' mindset, it can help to listen to Blue October, they've got some good songs.
Qxe4
So you're advocating hacking his account. Classy. Where do you people get off? Christ, given some of the people I've known in MMO's when I used to play, if you were found hacking their account, you would be dead. Seriously, I know several people who if you did that to you would lose it and kill you where you stand.
Nobody has any right to hack into someone elses accounts and delete it. Honestly, advocating that is sickening.
Regardless of the fact it's only a game, imagine how YOU'D feel if some asshole deleted the product of a year or two of your hobby. Like say you're into Warhammer and I come along set fire to your models "for your own good".
God you people are sick.
You can't control his life. You can explain your POV and what you think he is doing. When people are addicted to chemical drugs people around him can be 'enablers'. Enablers are people that indirectly support their addiction by passively allowing their drug use. Do not be an enabler. If it is wearing on the friendship and his ability to fulfill household duties tell him to get his shit together or you will kick him out.
Otherwise, professional help.
And maybe think about the role of this addiction in the persons life. If playing video games is the best part of their otherwise depressing shitty life, you should be prepared to help beyond this scapegoat addiction.
The hooker took one look at us, laughed, and walked out the door with our money.
You gave her the money before the services were rendered? Amateur.....
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
People want friends, not projects; unless they're fucked up and compensating. Of course friendships and relationships involve a little convenience, but having to feel like it's your responsibility to rescue someone from themselves is more than a little inconvenience, and frankly I think most people can agree they don't hold all of their friends on a level where they would find that necessary. I have quite a few friends, but very very few I'd feel the need to march into hell to save from their own poor impulse control; and even those would probably wear out their welcome pretty quickly.
--Obyron
Mod parent up.
Let's face some things
a) Addiction is a psychological symptom.
b) Some people are more prone to developing addictions due to genetics or education that others
c) When you are addicted, just stopping is not a choice you have (otherwise it would not be called addiction).
d) There is nothing immoral about beeing addicted. Since the guy is not free to make this decision, you can not argue with him.
e) There are side-factors or circumstances which help or cause to develop addictions.
f) There is no way you handle the situation correctly without help
So, yes, your friend will need professional help to solve this thing. How can you bring it to him? I guess asking the school counselor may be a good idea. Maybe it is necessary that he fails some exams. Maybe his parents can help (a friend of mine had a classmate who started university and got addicted to some game. At some points his parents stopped paying the bill, came with a car on the last day of the appartment rent, picked him up and took him to recovery.). This requires that his parents undertsand the situation. Sometimes their behaviour may be one of the circumstances causing the addiction.
A few more side notes
a) I personally am surprised that MMOs allow you to stay online for 18h/day. The Problem was known in MUDs a long time ago (e.g. 1994/1995). Some of these offered you a limitation of you online-time, which a lot of people gladly did.
b) At that time maximum considered suitable something like 20h/week.
c) I don't think a serious MMO addition is less problematic than an alcohol addiction. Sleep deprivation can do funny thing to you memory
d) My personal opinion is that MMO providers should be held liable for the damages they do carelessly in peoples lifes. Due to the nature of the service, namely one person holding one account, it would be more than easy to program triggers who warn the person or even lock down his account by force (one could implement more subtle gradual measures like increasing hte lag with time etc.). Yes, the company may loose money. But the barkeeper who give somebody who has enough a few more drinks also has responsibility (at least in Germany). So if you make the responsible the companyu will loose less money if they restrict their users behaviour.
And women will be receptive to a random MMO junkie because _______?
Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
Regardless of the fact it's only a game, imagine how YOU'D feel if some asshole deleted the product of a year or two of your hobby. Like say you're into Warhammer and I come along set fire to your models "for your own good".
God you people are sick.
...and trudging away at a digital treadmill (for allegedly ~18 hrs/day) is healthy? el-oh-el, sir.
Hacking the guy's account and deleting all his "hard work" isn't exactly the friendly way to help. However, that it only takes a few clicks to erase all that "work" should be weighed heavily against the notion that there is worth in those Pavlovian Pixels.
The friends pull the plug now, or the devs do in a year or two when they realize they'll never be WoW.... Does it matter? Only in the timing; does the guy pull himself around in time to make it through college, or does he become a basement dwelling neckbeard, devoid of friends outside of pixxel tiem?
I started playing everquest in 2001. At first I refused to play, but friends pretty much bought the game and installed it on my PC. I refused to play because I figured I'd get addicted... and sure enough... 7 years later... I went cold turkey. There are a few things that I realized about my own addiction that helped me break it.
First, MMOs are Skinner boxes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber They let the player feel like they're accomplishing something. This is a huge motivator when in your real life, the rewards are missing from any effort. For me, I had just got divorced and had a company I help start shoot down the toilet. Suffices to say, I was at a motivational low.
So, to figure out the trap (Skinner box), you need to figure out how to get the rewards in real life that are missing. A psychologist might suggest sitting with your friend and actually setting achievable, short term, real world goals. Even if it is as simple as going for a 30 minute walk. Then emphasize the "Hey, I did something today." You might even want to try something that gives other rewards, like adrenaline, through running, or some sport.
Next, there was the social aspect. People in MMOs believe the social context missing from their lives is real - that you actually have friends in the game. This is pretty far from the truth. Sure, I got to know a few people well in my EQ experience, but not one of them has participated in a relationship outside the game. So, some brutal realities there...
Anyway, I've been EQ free over six months. I refuse to play another MMO, ever. When you look at the total time played, and you see that you've been online 300+ days... ask the question, if you had a year of time back, what would you do with it? Sit in front of a computer screen like a zombie? Or actually try accomplish something. People often say they don't have time for stuff. Pretty sobering to look at some metrics. And real addicts underestimate how much time they play.
/\/\icro/\/\uncher
Persistence. Intervene adn then do not stop.
/terrible/ advise: dangerous, unethical, and inconsistent with human nature.
This is
There is lots of research on addictions, and there's lots of ways to approach treatment, but *nothing* works unless your friend asks for help. That has to be the first step. It's nothing personal, just something to do with the way the brain processes information about the self. Any action you take will elicit defence mechanisms if it is based on downward social comparison.
My advise is to go talk to a clinical psychologist about your friends case. They may be able to suggest appropriate reading materials, or communication strategies.
I am dedicated to helping people and understanding the human mind - it's a passion for me, and why I returned to school after working for years as a programmer. In my experience, the only way to truly help someone is to get to know them better, without any sense of agenda.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
It really depends on the person. Personally, what saved my life was a copy of Jung's _Signs & Symbols_ and a great group of friends when I went off to college. When I started reading psychology texts, it gave me the space to realize, "Holy crap. I have deep-seated issues that are going to ruin my life if I don't seek help _right now_."
The desire for change has to come from him. Chances are he's feeling pretty trapped and isolated atm. If he's not the academic/bookish type, my solution probably won't be useful, but he needs to get some kind of perspective on his life as a whole WITHOUT feeling like he's being attacked (which is what will happen if you or anyone else confronts him directly). The only thing you can do is maintain friendship with him, so that when he inevitably drops out (or, in my very lucky case, takes medical leave), he feels like he has people that care about him.
To the people who made comments about parents' intervention being useful: NO. Parent's are the worst thing that could possibly happen to him. Chances are his parents are pretty inextricably involved in whatever issues/depression are driving him to play this much.
This is a house mate. I'm assuming they had a reason for rooming together in the first place. Oh that's right, it's called friendship. And if your friend is addicted to something, then the friendship dissolves.
Losing a friend to game is no different than losing a friend to any other addiction. If they're gone, they're gone until they return to their senses.
Buckle your ROFL belt, we're in for some LOLs.
Sex doesn't always work, guys. I KNOW. And it isn't my lack of skills, let's say, because I damn sure have excellent skills in that area. It's not my fault my husband would rather play WoW than have sex. :-p
"I don't like hanging around with you when you play games 15 hours a day. It worries and irritates me to think about where your life might end up if you continue to behave this way. We need to think about different living arrangements. I hope we'll continue to be friends. I'll be very upset if we end up falling out over this. One of us needs to start looking for a new place to live. How are we going to sort this out?"
Man, I was all on-board with you until you went all pansy in your leadership example. What the guy needs is "Hey, shithead, this crap is ruining your life, and I'm not going to keep watching it happen. Either you stop, or I'm gone." If you can get the rest of the roommates to side with you, it be comes "...you stop or you're finding a new place to ruin your life."
Don't be all nice about it, the guy needs a slap in the face, my god man give him one! He's more likely to appreciate it if he does come around if you didn't pussyfoot around the issue.
Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
It doesn't sound like the guy is even taking the time out to look at porn, so he probably isn't masturbating, either, and thus, isn't even interested in no-strings-attached sex. So, he's certainly not going to be interested in many-strings-attached sex.
Plus, once just about any woman finds out that all he does all day is play a video game, she'll dump him in short order and he'll respond by further retreating into the game.
Sounds like a way to get your ass kicked and to permanently lose a "friend", or worse. The effect that has may not be what you intended, and could easily be worse than the "addiction" you thought existed.
A friend is not a person who has a right to destroy your stuff, just because they feel you're doing something with the stuff that they would consider unhealthy or unnatural.
Anyone who would contemplate such treachery is not a friend.
Make sure his parents know. It sounds corny, but no one in the world loves that boy more than his parents. No one cares about him more than his parents. If you can contact them anonymously, that would be best. But if you can't do anonymously, do it anyway. The addiction you describe is serious. Once you've made sure his parents know, then start thinking about the other techniques.
I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
It's only an addiction when it hurts the people around you.
If this guy enjoys playing his game while his friends study for finals, then so be it. It's none of their business because his actions have absolutely no negative implications for them. They may be annoyed, but that doesn't quite cut it.
It's not like the guy is getting drunk and breaking their shit, physically hurting them, or emotionally traumatizing them. Let the kid live his life.
Real life is a disappointment anyway.
Still, they're under no obligation to remain your friend. If it's a natural relationship, then you learn to accommodate or leave them be. If he is not a literal, mooching burden on the household, fine.
As soon as you're imposing, you have crossed the line into thought police territory.
I have lost friends to addiction, permanently. I still don't think it's right to try to moralize on people and intervene. That's a modern notion brought on by the self-help armchair psychiatrist bunch, much akin to the notion that government needs to protect people from themselves. So in turn, we should all be reporting each other to the government because of our addictions, right? Wrong.
The very idea of intervening is grossly condescending and arrogant. Your concept of a happy life is no more intrinsically valid than that of anyone else. Quit thinking of yourself as so damn special, with all the answers...
I am sorry for you. I really am. This kind of callous and shallow behavior shown by so many people saying "fuck him" "not your problem" and so on is EXACTLY why our society is so totally fucked right now. People have problems, serious ones. In fact, most people have serious problems at some point or another, the fact that everyone around them is so shallow and callous that they abandon them in their time of need is what makes our entire society fall the fuck apart.
Will you ever need people that are that dedicated to your well being in your life? Maybe not, if you don't you are pretty lucky. However, just knowing that you have people standing next to you that WILL march into hell to save you is invaluable. I have been that person before, and the one I tried to help hated me for it...for a while. However, now I have someone that I *KNOW* will always be there if I need them, and who has no problem calling me out on the carpet if I start going down a bad path. The pinnacle of arrogance is not so much believing that you can never make a mistake in your own life or go down those roads, but that you will know when you are doing it. Sometimes it takes someone close to you to give you that swift kick in the jimmy to let you know you are doing something stupid.
Additionally, I think being one of your "friends" would be depressing. Knowing that if my life goes foul for some reason and I start making bad choices, that I will be abandoned rather than helped. That kind of thing is typically what feeds directly into suicidal thoughts during the aftermath of some kind of traumatic event. Maybe this guy isn't just making stupid choices and addicted to a game. Maybe he just lost a family member, maybe he found out someone close to him has cancer, etc, etc, etc, and he is looking for an escape. The people that will make an impact in his life are the ones that will press the issue and help him. The reality is, half the time, you don't have to march into hell, you just have to let them know that you are ready to do that.
Your definition of friend seems to be pretty watered down. I call those people acquaintances, not friends. Friends are the people that WILL go to hell and back for you, and that you will go to hell and back for.
The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
I think people should mind their own bloody business personally. It's not like he's poisoning his body with drugs or alcohol or hurting other people with his "addiction".
How to help a friend? Leave them the hell alone to live their life how they want and stop being so bloody pretentious in thinking this person needs to be "saved".
I'm pretty much on board with this perspective. At some point he's an adult and takes responsibilities for his own actions. He might look back years later and lament the lost time (and quite possibly a delayed education), but that will have been his choice. The potential to be doing other things doesn't mean that he'd be happier not doing what he is now.
If he was spending all his time shut away in his room reading books, this wouldn't be post-worthy, it'd just be someone with a reclusive personality. If he was out getting smashed at parties and getting laid all the time, it wouldn't be post-worthy either. Still, it's just as easy to look back with regret on a year of partying as it is a year of playing an MMO.
I have to respectfully disagree here. When you make a lifestyle out of anything, when that thing is suddenly gone you notice it. All the time. ALL THE TIME. It might not be a physical addition like nicotine, alcohol, or hard drugs, but it is still an addiction.
checking for libvirus... no
ERROR, libvirus.so not found, terminating
Except that MMO is not an 'addiction' . . . it is a 'habit.' His friend will go through no withdrawal if his account expired tomorrow.
I see that you've obviously never been really into a game...
The friends and family of someone in a cycle of addiction can play an important role in communicating that 1. there's a problem and 2. it's possible to overcome it.
...and here is the story. Take what you will from it. At the time MMORPGs were called MUSHs and MOOs. A friend in college started logging into one and we all joined in the fun. That's what it was, a bit of fun. Unfortunately, while we did it with some pizza for an hour or two every few nights, he started playing more and more. Eventually, he never left the computer lab. He wouldn't go to the cafeteria for meals, instead eating only junk out of the vending machine just outside the lab. His roommate would go days without seeing him as he would simply snooze for an hour or so in the corner of the lab. He would even avoid showers until he stunk so bad he was dragged from the computer lab. We tried everything. We tried to get him to go to class; he wouldn't. We tried to get him to get out and see a movie; he wouldn't. We even tried to get him to come to dinner with his girlfriend who he didn't even talk to anymore; he wouldn't. After about 4 weeks of this, we finally went to the dean of students and explained the situation. His network access was disconnected and the student psychologist and the dean paid him a visit. They gracefully removed him from his currently enrolled classes so his GPA wouldn't take a nose dive should he pull himself back together again, contacted his family, located a local therapist for him, and sent him home. We all basically lost contact with him until he wrote his former girlfriend a year later and thanked us for doing what we did. He did eventually pull himself together and returned to school at another university. I don't know what ever happened to him after that. Anyway, that's my story.
Anon Coward to protect my professional rep
I was there. I had lost my job, got caught in in SWG and Anarchy Online, became an ARK (AO volunteer GM). I was spending over 60 hrs/wk doing that, ignoring my job search, ignoring my fiance.
One day, I realized I was in danger of losing the love of my life. I resigned from ARK, shut down my SWG account, and turned myself around.
These days I'm a 100K+ manager, married to the aforementioned love, and we have our daughter.
My addiction could have taken this all away from me. At the end of the day, change has to come from inside yourself. Your friends and family can give you their points of view, but trying to fix other people is a losing game. I know from trying to fix an alcoholic farther. The only one you can fix is yourself.
AC
How many people have you heard of that wake up in the morning and read all day until 3AM the next morning, only stopping for meals and potty breaks?
Reading books may be too specific for that to be a good analogy of reclusive personality, but I like the partying example better anyway. Besides, how many people have you known to be obsessive like that with an MMO and then ended up growing out of it?
I went through a phase of playing WoW pretty intensely, and I (along with every friend that played with me), just grew out of it. The same went for wildly irresponsible nights on the town. However, only one of those two phases brings the phrase "thank god I don't have an STD or a felony record" to mind when I think back to it.
It's only an addiction when it hurts the people around you.
You obviously don't know much about addiction.
Amnesty International
As someone who has lived a good chunk of his life on the "wrong" side of the tracks, allow me to give him some advice given to me long ago by a wise ex junkie- You can't make ANYONE stop being a junkie. They have to want to stop being a junkie themselves. You just try to be their friend if you can, and if you can't you simply walk away. It sucks, but so does life a lot of times. I have known guys that have spent 5 years in prison and gone straight from their release to their dealer. If he doesn't WANT to quit all you are gonna do is piss him off and drive him away.
But trying to make someone quit something because YOU think it is bad for them will simply never work. They have to decide that THEY think it is bad for them. And their are those that can become just as big a junkie to an MMO than to crank. A buddy of mine told me a few years back his sister was having to divorce her husband because he was addicted to Warcrack. He would come straight home from work to the game, and had even gotten bad enough that he wouldn't even drive anymore because when they would go anywhere he would play Warcrack from the passenger seat on the $4K laptop and cellular card he bought just so he could Warcrack wherever he was. Even though this guy had a nice wife with 2 kids by her when she finally got fed up and say "Warcrack or me" he chose Warcrack.
So there is really nothing you can do, he has to decide he has a problem. Until and unless that day occurs all you are going to do is drive him away. Because if you give him the choice of your friendship or the game, you are gonna lose. And if you try to interfere with his gaming that is what will ultimately happen.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Meh.
Addiction is addiction, whether to drugs, women, or games.
The only thing you really need to know, is that there is almost nothing you can do if it's someone else. They have to come to a place within themselves where they don't want to be like that anymore. Once they're there, they can quit. If they never get there, they will never be able to quit. Ever.
Just be honest. Tell them you think they're fucking up their life. Don't be afraid to tell them exactly how disgusting you think they are. It may sink in. It may not. Even if it doesn't, at least you'll be able to face yourself afterward.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
Maybe it was posted by his boyfriend.
He's playing the game because it gives him something he can't find or get enough of in Real Life. Behind the keyboard he can be daring, bold, brave, clever, and receive a regular helping of the success, joy, and adulation that come with those things. There are puzzles to solve, people to help (damsels in distress?), buds to hang with, and he can get it all, now.
How can Real Life compete with that? What are those things that make life worth living if the computer is more validating than your regular existence? That's the problem. Real Life becomes a maintenance issue serving to allow time with The Game. Now you are dependent on the game -- You're avoiding the Real Life stuff, The Game has become your buffer, your filter, your shield -- You are addicted. You don't merely need it, you require it. The Game is How you Live.
What now? The Game is dominant, but it's skills don't translate much to Real Life. Trying to deal with Real Life is an embarrassment. It doesn't work the way The Game does -- no reset, second chances, saves, spells -- you can't get and keep the upper hand. The physics don't match, the interactions aren't predictable, and you can't hide behind the keyboard. People see you, not your avatar. How can you live up to that? Why don't they understand? In The Game, they do...
See "Social Phobia" to appreciate how grasping at the one good (they think) thing in one's life can screw up the rest of it.
Pacifist paratroopers yell, "Ghandi!" when they jump.
I think that people who get into MMORPGs actually do like to work, or it at least doesn't preclude them from that. The difference is that the work they're doing is something we don't particularly see as valuable to society.
I think dedicated MMORPG players want to feel successful at something. I think those that are overly addicted and spend all their waking time devoted to the work of playing this game means to a large extent that they don't feel they can feel the same kind of success in any other pursuit.
Knowledge is just opinion that you trust enough to act upon. -Orson Scott Card
Maybe, just maybe, said housemate needs to learn that there are consequences to friendships from that kind of antisocial behavior. I spent many, many years on MUSHes and MUDs and MUCKs, to the complete and utter replacement of a life outside of my apartment. Only after I completely and utterly burned out on it did I start looking at the rest of my life and things to do in it.
My problem was that I was already too much of a socially inept type to actually have any friends that tried to drag me away from it, and I resented my family for it at the time. Getting away from it on my own was difficult, painful, and even almost drove me to suicide. But dammit, I managed.
But now that I'm away from that kind of thing every day, all day? I feel a lot better. Sure, I can still hop on a place once in a while, but unlike alcoholism or addiction to other drugs, it's very easy to substitute a real life for a virtual one.
I have friends now that do this, including one very close friend that I've known for half my life. Any time I talk with him, he has no news about anything, because he spends all his time online, roleplaying places. It's depressing as fuck, and if I didn't owe this friend my life on at least on occasion, I'd have blown up at him over it more than I have.
There is nothing more vicious to an addict than a recovered one.
Get your housemate offline. Threaten to kick him out if that's what it takes. If he's destroying the friendship with his behavior, and you can't see a cleaner way out, at the very least you owe it to him to be HONEST about it.
It's been my experience that the true problem with addicts in this kind of situation is that they're not addicted to the game - they're addicted to the kind of acceptance without question that they get from people who don't know them. They make friends, sometimes good ones, usually very superficial ones, and latch onto those people as pure expressions of friendship. Make sure they realize that they have real friends, but know the risks of what they're doing to those relationships.
Make the point that the guy isn't getting any and you are (hopefully), and it'll probably hurt enough to get him to start thinking about what he's missing out on by spending all his time playing Pirates.
I can only speak for myself, but being harassed about how I am "not getting any" and everybody else is has never bothered me much at all. Certainly not enough for me to do something about it. And I am not even addicted to an MMO (you could maybe argue for a general internet addiction by stretching the definition a lot).
Climate Progress - Hell and High Water
As someone else who had a former MMO addiction (SW Galaxies, FFXI, WoW, to name a few), I concur. I had my parents, friends, etc, all telling me I had to unplug, but I would get angry when they told me I played too much. It took me gaining 40 lbs. sitting on my ass playing games that made me wake up and realize what I was doing to myself. Well, that, and nearly losing my job to a fucking game. That was a big wake up call too.
Ya, I mean all that concern for friends, who needs it? I'd rather just have the guys I get drunk with and who wouldn't shed a tear at my funeral.
You are pitiful. Haven't you ever wanted to help someone else who needs it even when they don't realize it?
Having dealt with addiction in myself (twice) and once in a good friend, I can tell you in no uncertain terms that there's absolutely nothing you can do (not legally anyway). The person has to hit bottom. "Bottom" means different things to different people so some have to pretty much ruin their lives before they straighten up but in the end, the person who is addicted has to want to fix it before you can do anything. Addiction is a like a short circuit or malfunction in the brain, rationality has nothing to do with it and you cannot rationalize with an addicted person who has not realized they have a problem, nor can you make them see the problem. One day, the light bulb will come on but until then, you're screwed. The only thing you can do is not help them feed their addiction in any way (like giving them money). The faster they hit bottom, the better.
Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
Actually most "religious" wars are just conflicts over resources or land, and religion is used as an excuse.
"It's simple."
Find out what he's doing in the game, that he thinks he can't do offline, and then find a way to let him do whatever it is offline, in a way that won't interfere with his exams.
I got addicted to World of Warcraft for a while because playing a Survival Hunter allowed me to vicariously deal with my sense of inadequacy over the fact that I am unavoidably a civilian. (I've since also come to realise that having said sense of inadequacy was really dumb to begin with, but it was a childhood thing)
I was able to play a leadership role in a number of battlegrounds and instances though, and have some really positive experiences while doing so, (I was also GM of a levelling guild for a bit, which was good) which allowed me to process that neurosis, and also take from it a few elements which to some extent may have improved my personality as well.
That, however, is primarily what people get from MMORPGs, and it's the main reason why they play them. Most people are fairly disempowered and helpless offline. They might have two or three jobs, (that they usually hate) a wife and the proverbial 2.4 kids, station wagon, and labrador dog, and said existence can feel like a jail sentence, especially if you have to work long hours. They're also doing said jobs, most of the time, purely to keep their head above water. There's no creativity there, no enjoyment, and no recognition from the boss. They're not allowed to feel special, to feel like they're somebody important, or to really feel fulfilled.
But in Azeroth, (or Norrath, or $WORLD) it's different.
Offline, I'm an autistic, overweight, single, balding, largely socially isolated UNIX Beard with shortsightedness, a single kidney, and a leg length difference of three inches. I've had a single girlfriend, three years ago, which ended badly due to a combination of her and my baggage, and my father being a narcissistic, amoral, interfering $%^& as well. I largely haven't come across a single woman since who hasn't made fun of me when she's found out I'm interested in her, and whenever I've tried to interact socially with anyone else as well, or develop independence, I've usually gone fairly close to being killed as a result.
I couldn't participate in grading matches in terms of martial arts as a teenager due to said single kidney, and when someone tried to teach me one on one, because of the leg length difference I nearly dislocated my knee the first time I tried to do a kick.
In WoW, none of that matters. I have a far more attractive body, which is athletic and functions with perfect agility. I can travel anywhere I want, within a fairly large environment. Most of all, I can actually do the things that Army recruitment ads talk about, in terms of being part of a group, and eventually developing sufficient knowledge of the game to successfully and positively lead said group. I'm playing a class (the Hunter) which I love and find fulfilling, and I'm also meeting my social interaction and group belonging needs in terms of the instances and battlegrounds I do as well.
Let me ask you; out of those two scenarios, which do you think you're going to want to spend more of your time in?
The answer to that question, is also likely very similar to the reason why the guy in your example is addicted to the game that he is, as well. For some of us, real life isn't exactly a barrel of laughs.
I understand, had a person in my house hold doing the same thing. I found if I would block a port or two on the router that would let the game connect stay for a hour or so then let him in then block the voice chat ports this would make it harder to feel apart of the online world. Do not let him or her know what you are doing just blame it on the ISP or something like that. The hope is that the lunching of the game and playing gets hard and hard they start to loss interest. Good luck, MMO are hard to break then drugs.
Mod AC up, funny.
I think that some of the consoling we do has the net effect of making addictions harder to kick. An addict SHOULDN'T wait until they hit rock bottom before they try to go straight, and as sure as hell nobody should be TELLING him that's what needs to happen. Sometimes it will happen, but some people have more resolve than others.
I was not trying to condemn the game, I was simply trying to point out that for him it really WAS Warcrack. If someone has an addictive personality then they can and often do become addicted to things which wouldn't be harmful to someone else.
I knew a guy who would blow through cash for pot like hardcore junkies blow through coke money. He would fire up before he even drew a single breath upon waking up and would keep going all through the day until he went to bed. To myself and most folks firing up the occasional joint is not going to be dangerous to anything but the cookie supply, but to him he just couldn't function without it. He was one of the few junkies whom I felt really sorry for because it was completely not his fault. Most go in knowing that a drug is potentially harmful and make a choice that they want the high more than the risk, but his mom was getting him high at 8 years old. Being high was pretty much the only way he had to cope with anything, as he never got a chance to grow up.
But if you are a player of Warcraft and took offense, that was never my intention. While I don't care for MMOs (prefer single player shooters and RPGs myself) I'm sure it is a nice game with plenty of nice folks playing it. And I wasn't meaning to imply that I "blame" Warcraft anymore than I would "blame" pot or booze for someone having a problem with them. I personally think all drugs, as well as gambling and prostitution should be legalized and taxed, with the money going to rehabs and counseling for those that want to quit. But for the person that the article was discussing the pirates MMO is just as addictive as any drug. Just as for my friend's ex brother in law Warcraft really was Warcrack.
And I stand by what I wrote and the words of the wise ex junkie I knew: You can NOT force someone not to be a junkie. Not by laws, not by nanny government, not by shunning or ridicule. Only THEY can choose not to be a junkie. And one man's recreation is another man's addiction. doesn't mean we should look down on the drug or activity. Hell I knew a guy that ended up in the hospital after nearly killing himself with his addiction to bodybuilding. Are we gonna ban gyms so guys like him can't hurt themselves? No of course not. All we can do is let them know that we are there to help them if they decide they need help and try not to be enablers. The rest is up to them.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Except that MMO is not an 'addiction' . . . it is a 'habit.' His friend will go through no withdrawal if his account expired tomorrow.
I see that you've obviously never been really into a game...
You have never been addicted to a MMO I hear.
I remember a few times when my internet connection went down, I got really frustrated I couldn't keep grinding instances, gold or consumables (WoW). I just desperately needed to get back online, and as soon as the connection was back up, it was like a blessing.
For me, I essentially got bored of the game, and when I realised I was spending all this time playing a game that I didn't even enjoy, I quit. I probably couldn't have quit unless I got bored of it, since I would have romantisised about the gaming while doing other things, wanting to go back to playing WoW.
It can be just as much of an addiction as many other things.
Probable impossibilities are to be preferred to improbable possibilities.
Aristotele
If your girlfriend can't compete with a MMO, she's not trying. Whether she should be trying to make it work is another subject and varies based on situation. Usually, though, the MMORPG is a symptom, not the disease itself.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I only play maybe 10-20 hours a week now, mostly on the weekends. It's still fun, so I still play, but it's slowly getting boring, so I don't know if I'll last to the next expansion.
When it comes down to it, the only people I know who've quit ANY addiction are the ones who want to quit.
Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
Playing an MMO reduces amount of time you think about sex (you're busy thinking about new loot). You don't really mind not getting as much (speaking from experience).
You sound like an addict. I'm going to explain why it's addicting, maybe you'll realize it's addicting when I do: Friends.
Make a new character. Level to 6. Make a friend, we'll call them Bob. Bob keeps playing. You want to match Bob's leveling to keep playing with them. Level to 10. Make a friend. Repeat. Repeat. Level to 80. Join a cool raiding guild. You want to spend time with your friends. You want to get more gear so you can do better on the meters on the weekly runs. You need to farm to get gold to do enchants. You want to take some time to get that Argent Tournament Raptor. If you stop, you fall behind. Your guild is relying on your for attendance. Your friends are gearing up. Take 3 months off and you'll need to find a new guild because there will be to many mages when you come back. Damn.
The game is addictive because it's social. When you play almost any console game you play alone. You can put the game down for 4 months come back and you're still in the same place. Because so much of an MMO is building relationships you need to maintain those or you actually go backwards.
Consider if you feel obligated to play to keep in line with gear curves or guild duties.
Agreed. A primary characteristic of addiction is damage to the self. The first step is for the guy to admit there's something wrong. If you're really a friend, write the guy a letter saying you're worried about him and get as many of his friends sign it as possible. Give it to him, tell him you're concerned and then step back. Be there for him, ask if he needs anything, invite him out whenever possible to give him an opportunity to make the choice to step away, but otherwise let him make his choices on his own. The reasons for addiction are complex - there's often some underlying need that isn't being dealt with and the mmo takes the place of dealing with it. In the end he has to decide to face his problems and you can't force him to do it. If he fails out, gets expelled, whatever; unfortunately that may be what it takes for him to realize he needs to make a change.
He may need to take time off from school in order to deal with it.
On the bright side, you aren't finding used needles or little plastic baggies so it could be a lot worse.
I wonder why so many people think you should allow "friends" to go to hell with themselves. That sounds more like a casual acquaintance than a friend.
I have mod points. The reign of terror begins now.
It appears I've split opinion. One moderator thinks that I'm quite informative, the other thinks that I'm a troll. I suspect that the latter also thinks that the grandparent post was insightful, which I think says quite a bit more about the moderator than myself.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Ah, but you did hit bottom. Your fear of changing was overcome by your fear of NOT changing! Obsession is overwhelmed by compulsion -- the need to make the pain you saw in others go away. In short, your motivations changed for the better! Well done!
The only issues in helping another hit bottom is how hard and how fast. You're not out to ruin them -- they've done that to themselves already. You're out to help them see, as happened to you. And they're not going to like what they see, ever. That's the point.
Pacifist paratroopers yell, "Ghandi!" when they jump.
You've hit the nail on the head.
- they have to WANT to quit themselves
- you can only be open and honest with them, any attempt to be master armchair psychological manipulator will only backfire and is also a bit arrogant / condescending. Then again I'm one of those blunt people who sometimes puts their foot in their mouth doing nothing more than telling the truth lol. But there's not a lot wrong with just laying it all out for him, you don't have to be confrontational or judgemental, just point out the facts to him calmly and reasonably, and don't get drawn into an argument.
As a friend you want to help them, but really they have to want to help themselves. If they don't then there's not a lot you can do. At some point, cutting and running IS the right thing to do for you. God knows I've wasted large chunks of my life standing by, and tolerating insane amounts of BS (not just talking, actual BS events and things they'd do which I had to clean up afterwards, also copping flak from other people due to guilt by association etc.) from people who were fundamentally wallowing in their own problems/misery/self inflicted issues. If they don't want to help themselves then you're wasting your time.
If there wasn't religion, another excuse would be made. People feel better about themselves if they are fighting for what seems to be a noble cause. If it wasn't religion, it'd be racial harmony or something else. (and it often has been something else when it wasn't religion).
The girlfriend would have to compete with generic addiction. In that battle, the girlfriend usually loses.
I see the glass as full with a FoS of 2.
Keep breaking his computer until he comes clean. He'll run out of money eventually! Just make sure you won't get caught ;-)
My roommate is more or less addicted to WoW, but at least she has a job, and gets out, and so it doesn't consume her life.
Even still, when the last patch came out, something changed, and it broke her firewall exceptions, and blocked her out of the game. Her solution was to entirely reinstall everything from her computer.
Not because power-users reinstall every month, not because it would increase the performance of her machine, not because of anything like that. Rather, solely and singularly because she couldn't play her WoW.
Noted below, "Poker machines and MMOs are very similar", it's totally true. There is a gambling addiction, and if such a behavioral addiction exists, then MMO addiction must exist as well.
WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS