Slashdot Mirror


Painting The World's Roofs White Could Slow Climate Change

Hugh Pickens writes "Dr. Steven Chu, the Nobel prize-winning physicist appointed by President Obama as Energy Secretary, wants to paint the world white. Chu said at the opening of the St James's Palace Nobel Laureate Symposium that by lightening paved surfaces and roofs to the color of cement, it would be possible to cut carbon emissions by as much as taking all the world's cars off the roads for 11 years. Pale surfaces reflect up to 80 percent of the sunlight that falls on them, compared with about 20 percent for dark ones, which is why roofs and walls in hot countries are often whitewashed." (Continues, below.) "An increase in pale surfaces would help to contain climate change both by reflecting more solar radiation into space and by reducing the amount of energy needed to keep buildings cool by air-conditioning. Since 2005 California has required all flat roofs on commercial buildings to be white and Georgia and Florida give incentives to owners who install white or light-colored roofs. Put another way, boosting how much urban rooftops reflect would be a one-time carbon-offset equivalent to preventing 44 billion tons of CO2 from entering the atmosphere. 'For the first time, we're equating the value of reflective roof surfaces and CO2 reduction,' says Dr. Hashem Akbari. 'This does not make the problem of global warming go away. But we can buy ourselves some time.'"

47 of 712 comments (clear)

  1. Pavement by jasonhamilton · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Makes me wonder why roofs and not pavement. There's a lot of roads and parking lots around the world. Seems like there's more surface area of those than roofs.

    --
    SearchIRC - Now with live chat directory!
    1. Re:Pavement by Chabo · · Score: 5, Informative

      From TFS:

      that by lightening paved surfaces and roofs to the color of cement

      Personally, I wouldn't want to drive on a surface that bright; I'd be squinting even with my sunglasses on!

      Also, as a current resident of California, I can see the value in having a light-colored car or house, but as a former resident of New Hampshire, I can tell you that having a black car and black roof on a cold but sunny winter's day is very helpful! Snow slides off my car roof with ease, and it means I didn't have to turn the heat up quite so much!

      --
      Convert FLACs to a portable format with FlacSquisher
    2. Re:Pavement by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Personally, I wouldn't want to drive on a surface that bright; I'd be squinting even with my sunglasses on!

      If you've driven on an interstate in the mid-west, chances are you've driven on cement. It really isn't any worse than asphalt.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    3. Re:Pavement by Dutchy+Wutchy · · Score: 5, Insightful
      If the roads are painted white with the standard white road paint, the coefficient of friction will be reduced (much more so when wet).

      Also, where is all this paint coming from? What are the environmental and economic impacts of making all of this paint?

    4. Re:Pavement by Avin22 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Although this would reduce the amount of energy used for cooling, heating costs would go up. For most people, it takes far more energy to heat a house than cool it. It takes 1200 KWh to cool a house in a temperate climate for a year, but it takes 12000 KWh to heat one . It is more useful to look for ways to heat a house more efficiently than cool it.

    5. Re:Pavement by MarcoAtWork · · Score: 4, Insightful

      uhh, in the winter your roof is covered by snow anyways, so the color your roof is not going to make any difference. And for states/countries where it doesn't snow in the winter, you probably also don't need 12000KWh to heat them up.

      --
      -- the cake is a lie
    6. Re:Pavement by syphax · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In the winter, a dark, hot roof doesn't heat a house very effectively (heat rising and all that- plus there's less incident solar energy).

      In the summer, there's a lots of solar energy hitting your roof; and a hot roof leads to a hot attic, which retards flow of heat/hot air in the house (heat rising and all that).

      So, a light-colored roof has a much more profound impact on cooling than on heating.

      A metal roof will help both heating and cooling- and snow slides off them- but they are not cheap!

      --
      Simple Unexpected Concrete Credible Emotional Stories
    7. Re:Pavement by cdub1900 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Believe it or not, there is a lot of research going into creating lighter colored surfaces for roads. One of the advantages is that it takes less light (and thus energy) to light up the surface at night. This also decreases the amount of "light pollution" you would have around town. There are other advantages to improving water quality and decreasing noise.

      http://www.eoearth.org/article/Cool_paving

      However, one of the current hangups is how to keep them light? Unless we can also change the rubber in the tires to be lighter color as well, the road surfaces just end up black again in high traffic areas like California.

    8. Re:Pavement by Chabo · · Score: 5, Funny

      In New England, we have four seasons:

      Almost Winter, Winter, Still Winter, and Construction.

      --
      Convert FLACs to a portable format with FlacSquisher
    9. Re:Pavement by pcolaman · · Score: 5, Informative

      In Florida, we have only one season:

      #RandomWeatherPattern

    10. Re:Pavement by jandrese · · Score: 4, Funny

      What do you mean they're not cheap? The corrugated steel roof has been the roof of choice for people who can't afford tarpaper for ages.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    11. Re:Pavement by changa · · Score: 5, Funny

      In California we have 3 seasons: Spring, Rain and Fire.

    12. Re:Pavement by sexconker · · Score: 4, Funny

      Then I'll dab your eye with wet cement and then dab your other eye with molten asphalt and you tell me which is REALLY easier ON your eyes.

    13. Re:Pavement by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The other replies have told you why you are wrong. I will tell you how to harness the principle to your benefit, but it has nothing to do with your roof. I saw it in Mother Earth News (how apparently ironic that the acronym is MEN) but the idea is old; you paint the exterior wall black, cover it with a sheet of glass or plastic, and put a vent at the top and bottom. In the summer you would prefer to cover it with white shutters to reflect unwanted solar energy. In winter, you open the shutters and the vents. Convection provides circulation.

      In theory, you could do the same thing on your roof, but you'd need some sort of forced air system to bring the air down where you can use it; all you need in your home is a ceiling fan.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    14. Re:Pavement by JWSmythe · · Score: 4, Informative

          It's a little of this, or a little of that.

          I've noticed, new asphalt in the Florida summer (say 90F to 110F) roads turn into mirages, Entire cars can disappear in the at less than 1/10 mile. You can see the heat rising from them.

          In older asphalt roads, where they're sun bleached and worn, the heat isn't as much of a problem.

          And I've never seen it on concrete roads.

          I've wondered about roads and roofs being a contributing factor to global warming. There's a lot of square miles of roofs and roads that have increased relation to the population. It's always been notable that cities are hotter than the countryside surrounding them.

          I've wondered about the heat put off by internal combustion engines. We're taking massive amounts of stored energy (oils, etc) and turning them into heat and motion. How many BTU per hour does an average car put off? In passenger vehicles, even in the winter, a small fraction of that heat is redirected into the passenger compartment, and can turn it into a freakin' oven. Look at the size of the heater core versus the radiator.

        In the summer, that's increased, as the load on the cooling system is added onto by running the A/C in the car (more load on the engine). The amount of heat moved from the passenger compartment to the outside should be a wash, as should the heat transfer from a building.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    15. Re:Pavement by Stevecrox · · Score: 5, Informative

      A house built to with heat conservation in mind should almost heat itself. I've moved into a new flat building in the UK, between all the insulation and double glazing its actually hard for me to get the flat cooler than 21 degrees.

      During the winter when it reached -8 degrees outside, my flat without any heating was at 16 degrees. My neighbours have the same issue, we only have the one small flat below us so the heat isn't coming from downstairs.

      I can think of several other new buildings which suffer from this problem. If your going to argue about the color of a building mandating improved heat conservation should remove most of the heating costs.

    16. Re:Pavement by ceoyoyo · · Score: 5, Funny

      In Canada we have two seasons: winter and what they call winter in New England.

    17. Re:Pavement by CanadaIsCold · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There is a tipping point to the cement argument which is why you don't see it in truly cold locations like Canada. Cement roads have a longer lifespan than asphalt and it works out to be cheaper in some locations. In other locations ,due frost, the ground moves too much to see the return on investment. In Canada where there is heavy frost every winter a cement road would still be required to be repaired every year but at a much greater cost due to the cracks caused by frost. This is why you see more cement roads in the southern states and less in the northern. Asphalt's lower cost to install and repair makes it a better fit in colder areas. Neither is a perfect solution but each serves it's purpose in it's place. The perfect solution, as always, is to give us our flying cars.

      --
      This signature would be better if I was creative.
    18. Re:Pavement by JWSmythe · · Score: 4, Funny

          That's a blatant lie. The weatherman was joking about it a few nights ago, but it's true.

          Season 1 - Hot: February 15 through December 15

          Highs from the high 80's to low triple digits.
          Lows in the mid 70's to high 80's.
          50% chance of afternoon and evening showers and thunderstorms.

          Season 2 - Cold: December 16 through February 14

          Highs in the mid 60's to low 80's,
          Lows from the high 20's to mid 70's.
          50% chance of afternoon and evening showers and thunderstorms.

          I've lived here for 30 years. That's always an accurate prediction. The only variation is when a tropical storm or hurricane blows through, and they only increase the chance of rain from 50% to 100%.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    19. Re:Pavement by danbert8 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Not just quick dry... All cement is an exothermic reaction. And would people SERIOUSLY stop calling concrete cement. Roads are made of concrete, which is a mixture of cement, aggregate, and water. Cement is only the binder of the mix.

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    20. Re:Pavement by MichaelSmith · · Score: 4, Funny
      Here in Victoria, Australia 90% of road work happens in the last month of the financial year, which is now. I used to work for the state road authority. One year, on the last day of june:
      • Boss: (pointing to a bit of gear) whats that?
      • Me: An HP pen plotter
      • Boss: How much did it cost?
      • Me: Seven thousand dollars
      • Boss: Buy another one. today
    21. Re:Pavement by tsalmark · · Score: 5, Funny

      I love all these Concrete examples.

    22. Re:Pavement by KillerBob · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Ontario Highway 115, which runs between Peterborough, Ontario, and Hwy 401 just outside Toronto, is a test road. They put it in decades ago, and tested several different road surfaces, including several different types of cement and light-coloured road surfaces.

      The cement has, on the whole, stood up better than the asphalt. And believe me, it gets cold in Pete.

      --
      If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
  2. Paint the bears, too by snsh · · Score: 5, Funny

    Let's also paint all the Grizzly bears white. That will address the problem of disappearing polar bears.

  3. and make all by markringen · · Score: 5, Interesting

    and make all the birds blind. we had a man in the neighborhood who had a white roof and it was filled with dead birds. birds fly towards white objects for some reason as if it's the sky, and splatter to death.

    1. Re:and make all by whiledo · · Score: 4, Funny

      They do not fly into them, either.

      --
      Moderators: Before moderating a comment Insightful/Informative, check to see if a child post has already refuted it.
    2. Re:and make all by scubamage · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's also why roofs are painted that way in tropical regions. No birds on the roof means you can gather a clean water supply from rainfall. Bermuda does this with excellent success.

  4. Nice to have a Sec of Energy actually Read the Lit by sampson7 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    There are very free lunches in the world of energy production and consumption. Lightening the color of pavement and roofing materials about as close as we get. From a DOE study:

    As an example, computer simulations for Los Angeles, CA show that resurfacing about two-third of the pavements and rooftops with reflective surfaces and planting three trees per house can cool down LA by an average of 2-3K. This reduction in air temperature will reduce urban smog exposure in the LA basin by roughly the same amount as removing the basin entire onroad vehicle exhaust. Heat island mitigation is an effective air pollution control strategy, more than paying for itself in cooling energy cost savings. We estimate that the cooling energy savings in U.S. from cool surfaces and shade trees, when fully implemented, is about $5 billion per year (about $100 per air-conditioned house).

    Amazing, isn't it? Two to three degrees in temperature reduction in a major city just by resurfacing, repainting, and planting trees. Yeah, sure, it's not sexy. But the cost savings ... staggering. Add in the health benefits of reducing smog, plus the reduction of human misery from over-heated citys, and you wonder why we haven't done this years ago.

    I know this is going to sound like a self-serving political statement from a hardcore Democrat -- but well done, President Obama. You picked a scientist to run an agency. You gave him a mission to better humanity through reducing carbon emissions and energy consumption. You gave him a platform where he would be heard. Well done indeed.

  5. Re:Time out by Tenek · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Maybe there's some legitimate debate over how reversible it is, independently of whether or not it's happening.

  6. Re:Time out by MrMista_B · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No, that was accurate - the climate is changing all the time, and humans have caused various changes to accelerate in ways that are detrimental to the survival of our species (growth of deserts, loss of farmland, etc.)

    What this is proposing, is a way to mitigate some of the detrimental changes.

    That aside, why the snark? I understand that people of course have personal investment in their enviroment (it's where we live, after all), but for someone proposing a simple change like this that could have multiple beneficial results for our species, I'm not sure why you feel so threatened.

  7. why roofs in hot countries are whitewashed by Culture20 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That's nice for the hot countries. What about cold countries? Maybe we like having black roofs and roads to melt the snow faster if there's a little opening?

    1. Re:why roofs in hot countries are whitewashed by pz · · Score: 4, Informative

      That's nice for the hot countries. What about cold countries? Maybe we like having black roofs and roads to melt the snow faster if there's a little opening?

      Yes. Or nearly so. I just happened to be doing some research on roof treatments. There are basically two types -- for flat roofs. Angled roofs are a different story since they're angled for snow and rain shedding. The two types of flat-roof coatings are white paint and aluminum paint.

      Here's the link: http://eetd.lbl.gov/coolroof/coating.htm

      White paint coatings use titanium dioxide as a pigment (very, very white) and reflect 70-80 percent of incident light. That means they keep the roof cool in the summer. They are, however, reasonably transparent to IR from below, so unfortunately do nothing to hold heat in during the winter.

      Aluminum paint coatings use little flakes of alumnimum and reflect about 50-60 percent of incident light. That means they also keep the roof cool in the summer. They are, however, much less transparent to IR from below, so help keep in heat during the winter by reflecting it back down.

      Then again, nothing stops you from painting your flat roof white or aluminum and unrolling black sheeting during the winter to help absorb heat from the sun.

      --

      Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
  8. Re:White asphalt? by JSBiff · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There might be some safety issues with making road surfaces reflect more light. . .things that come to mind:

    * Increased road glare on sunny days - good sun glasses could largely deal with this, but if you don't happen to have a pair of sunglasses, you might be having a pretty hard time seeing on very bright days.

    * Night driving: harder to see the painted lines and reflectors embedded in the concrete (I'm not sure if this would really be much of a problem or not, but maybe could be)

    * Winter driving - In the winter, I'm sure that black pavement absorbing sunlight has some beneficial effect in the form of melting ice off the road sooner than light-colored pavement would. Lighter colored road surfaces might lead to ice lasting longer, or requiring more salt to be put on the roads by road crews.

  9. According to Rush Limbaugh ... by tiedyejeremy · · Score: 4, Funny

    White paint CAUSES GLOBAL WARMING by reflecting light into the atmosphere! http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_032609/content/01125110.guest.html

    --
    Anything you say will be held against you. ... "tits"
    1. Re:According to Rush Limbaugh ... by geekoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "I don't want to get too technical on this black paint versus white paint and reflection of heat and so forth because it misses the point."
      He always says something like that and what it really means is "I don't want to get too technical on this [Inser topic] becasue there are no technical aspects to my argument that are true.

      Fight it on the rights issue, but don't fight it on a science issue when you do not understand the science.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:According to Rush Limbaugh ... by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 4, Funny

      Wow, I think this is the first time I've ever heard him say something nice about something black.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    3. Re:According to Rush Limbaugh ... by el_gato_borracho · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Rush Limbaugh does sound like a doofus when he tries to talk about science, but he is no racist. He consistently agrees with Dr King's ideal of judging people by the content of their character, not the color of their skin. Rush agrees with and supports people who agree with his political viewpoint regardless of skin color, and opposes those who disagree in like kind. A man who had a problem with black people would not let Dr Walter Williams guest host his show so often, would not interview Justice Clarence Thomas on his program, etc. It saddens me that politics has become so polarized that it is considered normal for people who never listen to Rush Limbaugh to "know" that he is a racist, plus get modded funny based on that smear.

  10. Re:Time out by stpere · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well, even if we can't reverse the process, there are other good reasons to lower our energy consumption.

    Energy isn't free; by polluting less, you often spend less in the long run... It's not only good for the planet, it's good for the economy in general.

    Both shouldn't be seen as incompatible things.

  11. White paint or solar panels? by Hankenstein · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Or we could put solar panels on roofs and convert the sunlight, that would ordinarily be
    converted to heat, into electricity which I am sure we could find a use for.

  12. Ridiculous by jdb2 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Paint roofs white? With the efficiency increases in photo-electric technology, why not put solar panels on every roof? Not only would we reduce the amount of heat being re-radiated back into the atmosphere but, if done on a global scale, we'd eliminate one of the primary reasons for climate change in the first place : the burning of fossil fuels. And before you respond with "but it will cost too much and generate more CO2 than it eliminates" let me give you one word : Bootstrapping. That's right -- Use the power from the existing global infrastructure for solar energy capture to build more global infrastructure for solar energy capture; That way, you would generate a minimal amount of greenhouse gases in the manufacture of new solar panels while at the same time creating a self-sustaining positive feedback loop wherein the more energy we can capture, the more energy capture infrastructure we can build, resulting in our ability to capture more energy.

    I didn't RTFA but the summary sounds retarded.

    jdb2

  13. Great for Global warming.... by puppetman · · Score: 5, Interesting

    and sea levels, but not for the pH balance of the oceans, which are acidifying as they absorb additional carbon from the atmosphere.

    I remember reading about green roofs (growing plants etc on the roof of buildings) and the effect it had on temperatures when done in urban environments:

    Reduce heating (by adding mass and thermal resistance value) and cooling (by evaporative cooling) loads on a building â" especially if it is glassed in so as to act as a terrarium and passive solar heat reservoir â" a concentration of green roofs in an urban area can even reduce the city's average temperatures during the summer.

    The Fairmont Hotel, here in Vancouver BC does this, growing herbs for the hotel kitchens.

  14. Re:Run away Whitehouse by veganboyjosh · · Score: 4, Funny

    So what you're saying is....

    Once you go white, you never go back?

  15. Re:Time out by SnarfQuest · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is it likely to be reversble if it isn't happening?

    --
    Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
  16. Re:Nice to have a Sec of Energy actually Read the by radtea · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I know this is going to sound like a self-serving political statement from a hardcore Democrat -- but well done, President Obama.

    My cynicism knows no bounds, which gives me to think what the Democratic response to this might have been if a Bush Administration official had proposed it. I'm betting something to the tune of, "Oh those damned Republicans they want to use band-aid technological fixes so they can go on driving their SUVs over baby polar bears for another ten years!"

    I think this is a good idea, and if Chu can make it happen (again, colour me cynical) it'll be a good thing, particularly because of the reduced energy demand aspect, which will help with the whole peak oil deal.

    But I can't help thinking about how mindless partisans (not necessarily you) would have reacted if the Offence rather than the Defence had suggested this (both parties are ultimately on the same team, of course, representing the plutocrats united against the people.)

    --
    Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
  17. I already did this ... by Skapare · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... by painting all the solar cells on my roof white. But I'm gonna have to do this all over again because these solar cells aren't making any electricity.

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  18. Re:Lisa. by ZackSchil · · Score: 4, Funny

    How could I ever forget good old Lias?

  19. Autobahn is cement? I don't think so by heinzkunz · · Score: 4, Informative

    I drive on the Autobahn every other day, and practically all of it is paved with asphalt.

    Also, mean temperatures in Germany (13C) are much higher than in Canada (-8C).

    If you want proof, take a look:
    1) It's asphalt.
    2) The beer is not frozen.