Slashdot Mirror
Hulu Testing Client App; Boxee Dispute Explained
N!NJA sends in word of Hulu's new beta section, Hulu Labs, which is now showcasing Hulu Desktop, a client that runs on both Windows and Mac. The author believes that Hulu Desktop explains why Hulu has been so touchy about Boxee. "This clearly explains why Hulu has been so persistent in blocking Boxee — an open-source media-center application for Macs, Apple TVs, and other devices — from including its content. Since Hulu provides free, ad-based mainstream content from the largest studios and networks in the business, they are under tight constraints imposed by these major players. We have already seen good examples of where Hulu is heading with integrated advertising inside the browser. A desktop client produced in-house will be much more conducive to monetizing Hulu using these kinds of campaigns."
I thought it was the tentacles they used to liquify your brain.
What's this Boxee business? Did Boxxy create a company without me knowing?
MABASPLOOM!
This has been asked before, but... where's the Linux version? And will we need a liquid cooled Phenom x4 processor to render the Adobe video in full screen?
Georgia Tech, the leader in Chia(tm) technology.
Title says it all.
And this has been another installament of Captain Obvious!
As I run Boxee on Ubuntu and I get all the ads from Hulu. Currently using the latest Boxee build, which uses the Hulu public feeds.
As Hulu's popularity has skyrocketed over the past year, users have been clamoring for a way to get it out of the browser and into the living room. Hulu Desktop looks like quite a major effort towards answering this call, so we'll have to see how users respond.
Hulu Desktop is a free download and requires a Mac with a 2.4GHz Intel Core Duo or comparable processor, 2GB of RAM, and Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger or later. You'll also need Adobe Flash 9.0.124 and a 2Mbps Internet connection.
Great, something about to explode in the consumer market passing up on open source and instead locking everyone and all their hardware in to the requirement of Adobe Flash. You want to discuss why you need a core duo to run this!?
... people having to pay again ... for their hardware and ... software and ... codecs and ... media licenses and ... internet connection and ... no one will have enough money to afford it anyway.
*massages his forehead* I see in the future
There's free (and I mean actually free) alternatives out there that could make it so that hardware manufacturers and mobile companies don't have to get Adobe Flash on their devices. I'm not sure why Hulu isn't beefing up other open source software, containers and codecs to meet these needs. It would certainly make it easier for them to satisfy the media licenses with ad revenue. Oh well, enjoy your setback.
My work here is dung.
Now Hulu just has to dump Flash and pick an HD format that can get some hardware accelerating love, and this will make every owner of a Netbook extremely happy.
any client based application that displays adverts is usually classified as Adware, i presume the Hulu team are ok about that label on their software ?, also if it has any "user analytics" (a bullshit term made up by marketeers to avoid using the correct terminology for its covert functionality )
it will be classified to a more serious Spyware category due to the fact it is "spying" on the users behaviour
at least if its browser based the browser has (thank goodness) a security model to prevent the more serious nefarious behaviours (thats why advertising based companies are so keen for you to install a binary so they can avoid the browsers protection and collect data that they wouldn't otherwise be able to obtain)
Its a slippery road when you merge advertising based businesses and a binary application running natively on a client and for security companies there is no middle ground (no such thing as good adware/spyware)
so i trust that AV/AS companies will be marking it as such
Right now, hulu works on any browser that has flash. What does the desktop app give you that the web site doesn't? It seems like this is a step BACKWARD, not forward. I'd be more impressed if it was on XBOX live like Netflix is right now.
We don't live in Shouldland.
Why would I need Boxee or a Hulu app when I have Plex on my Mac..
One three letter acronym: DRM
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
a client that runs on both Windows and Mac.
Ride 'em in, rawhide.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
The problem is time and adoption. Flash (as much as I hate it) is available now. Hulu is growing at the rate that needs to run on technology available, not invest in under-developed OSS alternatives that could take a long time to reach a critical mass of adoption. There edge is that they are faster and more available than bit-torrent and a bit easier to use. If you add esoteric plugins to the mix you're going to adjitate the users, and you're going to rely on whatever viewer the client happens to use to process/view the video (VLC, WMP, QT, etc...) which introduces another issue in configurability for the masses. Unfortunately, Flash is the path of least-resistance that works for the vast majority of their customers (even though it runs poorly on non-Windows platforms.)
They are not a technology company... and operate more like a cable/satellite provider that just so happens to use HTTP and a browser to show the lineup rather than a set-top box/media center on game console (though that may change), and probably will.
Forgive my spelling from time to time. I'm often posting during short breaks.
Slashdot testing web code; website failure explained.
I mean seriously, do you guys actually test your code before releasing it?
"Fuck it; we'll do it live!"
Hulu Desktop is wrapped with a media-center-like bow, with a customized "lean-back" UI that can run full screen and even respond to Apple Remotes and Windows Media Center remotes.
Moderators: Before moderating a comment Insightful/Informative, check to see if a child post has already refuted it.
I'm excited about the exclusion of game consoles, assorted media boxes, Linux machines, and all users outside the US. Still, this is a little too open for my tastes. Couldn't they have made it Vista-only?
Call me naive, but I wonder why Hulu would not just embrace Boxee and try to work with them. It would save them all the development time and expense, and still allow them to stream their ads. Why should Hulu care how their content is distributed AS LONG AS they get the ad revenue. And they can still develop their own app if they like.
You're right of course, why would anyone use the application?
The plan seems to have backfired; instead of liquefying our brains, they have instead created a gooey mess in their own noggin. Otherwise no-one would seriously think there was a good reason to have a desktop app with no more ability...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Uh... have you not poked around boxee's site AT ALL? They give you VERY clear instructions on how to add the repository (Ubuntu is supported).
The biggest problem I have with Hulu is its bandwidth requirements. TFA states that you need a 2Mbit connection. I just don't have that available to me. On a good day I get .5Mbit out of my Sprint wireless card and I have the best connection in my neighborhood. If I could set a buffer high enough, or if I could set it to download overnight, I could watch it later. Does anyone know of a way to do this with Hulu or any other such service for that matter?
DISCLAIMER: This post was not checked for speling and grammar- if you complain- you're a whiner
Have to agree with this. To boil it down:
Moderators: Before moderating a comment Insightful/Informative, check to see if a child post has already refuted it.
My conclusions: They get a star sticker for making a universal binary and not locking out the many mac users that still love and use their PowerPC based Macs. Beyond that though, it is crap. The menus are EXTREMELY slow to respond (even on a 2.4 Ghz core 2 duo with 2 GB ram) and unpredictable. The main interface isn't full screen and doesn't even have a full screen option. The shows seem to revert to clips even when you specifically go though seasons to the latest season, and the whole thing feels clunky. I really don't understand the motivation for this. I was just remarking to my girlfriend the other day how I don't mind the commercials, I just want to watch on my own schedule. Why doesn't hulu just embrace boxee and understudy or even make their own frontrow plugin? This would be far more useful than this crapola desktop app... I understand this is still beta, but it acts more like alpha since performance-wise it is jumpy and unwatchable.
Get a web developer
I can see your point, but I think the only circumstances that it would happen is not Hulu "work[ing] with" Boxee, but instead buying them out or co-opting them. Hulu wants the ability to exclude people or devices from their service at will. Having that type of power allows them to use proprietary formats or hardware to deliver content. If Boxee exists, Hulu would have a much tougher time creating revenue off of new devices which do exactly the same thing as Boxee.
Has anyone tried running the desktop app in Linux with Wine? Is there any possibility of this working?
According to the Hulu CEO, the issue is the cable channels. They get a large chunk of their funding from cable subscriptions, and they feel very threatened by any project that attempts to replace the cable box in your living room.
Hulu would much rather have shows like Battlestar Galactica and the users it draws than have the handful of hobbyists who currently have a Boxee or XBMC setup. Of course they'd rather have both, but this is similar to the games Apple has to play with RIAA, etc.
It may not have been laid out before, but this has been the issue all along.
This post (Q's 7 & 8) I think explains why Hulu has been forced to block media center apps: http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/13/your-hulu-questions-answered/ To be fair, Hulu needs to satisfy the desires of their content-providing overlords, and whether or not the people at Hulu agree with blocking media centers, they need to at least make it appear they are making a good-faith effort to do so (it does seem that every block they've thrown up has been easily worked-around). That said, I suspect the thinking is the full-screen app isn't going to be used by technically sophisticated users who are capable of setting up and running one of the Hulu-supporting media centers, and therefore anyone who is using the full-screen app isn't going to be the type that has their PC hooked up to their TV.
Ads? No, it doesn't have anything to do with ads. Advertising on Hulu is little more than a shell game for the networks (dba Hulu).
Consider the history of the music industry on the Internet. The technology for purchasing music online was entirely in place by 1995 when people started to use Netscape Navigator in large numbers. Napster didn't come into play until 1999, iTunes in 2001.
The general (and correct) opinion is that the music industry wasted several years of opportunity to establish themselves as the major purveyor of online music content on their own terms. When Napster came around people got used to trading music for free, and with iTunes the industry accidentally ceded major amounts of mindshare and control to Apple. I've seen interviews explaining that the reason for the wasted opportunity was that they had no clue what to do, even who they should work with.
The TV studios today are not nearly as clueless as the music industry was in 1995, and they are determined not to repeat the same mistakes. They are aware that they have an opportunity to dictate terms and lengthen the survival of their traditional broadcast delivery model if they play things right.
Enter Hulu -- Hulu is not a for-profit corporation in reality. Hulu is a (perhaps illegal) collusion among NBC, FOX, and ABC (via their respective owners) to provide a "just right" level of service via the Internet -- enough that people are not (as) tempted by BitTorrent/iTunes, but not enough to make for a better experience than that available on a TV.
That's the reason for all the jacking around with availability schedules and the reason Hulu will never allow itself to be repackaged into a convenient format. The inconvenience is the entire purpose of the service.
I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
Two three letter acronyms: DRM FML
Sometimes, life itself is sarcasm...
You may be on to something there. Much TOO on, in fact. Please stay where you are and some entertainment industry representatives will arrive shortly to assist you.
Your on slashdot, not ubuntu or boxee.com
Early on with few ads and with little delay in streaming and without the aggressive anti-boxee actions I watched Hulu (albeit not on boxee). The occasional ads of 15 to 30 seconds weren't bad. But watching anything now you have to put up with ads quite frequently, at least for the popular shows.
Forget about movies, they always sucked and probably always will. They relist the same movie web page after web page to make them look more complete, but they aren't, they are just relisting.
And now with them giving this farce of a client and expecting us to make the connection to it as to why they dumped boxee is just about enough. I'm not going to buy into their client, I'm not going to use their client, I'm not going to restrict myself to Windows or the Mac to watch this content as I am a Linux user.
Enough is enough, this is the end of Hulu for me.
You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
When the official site shows clear instructions on how to do something, its easier to point a user to that site rather than list the instructions again. Now should that user run into problems while following the instructions, they should come back with the problem they're running into
Someone sure is insightful today.
Viral software licensing is not freedom, it is in fact GNU/Socialism.
You may be on to something there. Much TOO on, in fact. Please stay where you are and some entertainment industry representatives will arrive shortly to assist you...
(wait, that doesn't really make any sense...)
Bow-ties are cool.
If it allows me to do an end-run around paying for cable in the long run it's probably worth it.
What the hell are you talking about? Hulu exists to make money - they are not a non-profit venture. If you believe they are then show evidence of that. Ads make Hulu money. They are not doing this for free.
What are you saying or trying to imply here? Online music sharing is totally different than TV shows. When you get an MP3 file from some online music sharing site it's not like in the 3rd verse you hear "and now a word from our sponser...". With TV you do. The broadcast model for at least 70 years now have been advertiser supported. Hulu videos have ads in them. They are advertising supported. This is totally different than music. What you say above makes no sense.
Again, what are you saying here. Hulu is a for profit corporation. That is their legal structure and their aim - period. Stop spreading lies. And there's nothing illegal with the networks getting together - last I checked this was still a free country although I suspect you secretly wish it wasn't.
You have failed to show that and it doesn't even make any sense. Hulu makes money on ads. It really doesn't matter what vehicle you use to view the ads. Hulu's concern is that open source pirates might be able to break the encryption and serve up content without ads thus no money for Hulu. There's no need to invent conspiracy theories...
I'm usually the first person on the "closed SW sucks, screw the man" bandwagon, especially when it comes to the TV networks and media distribution / DRM, but I gotta steer clear of the /. party line on this one.
Hulu is actually pretty awesome - it streams shows on-demand with non-obtrusive ads, ads that are actually much better than the ads on OTA TV these days in that they're a bit (I hate this word, but) edgier and, more importantly, far less repetitive. You can vote on ads you don't like. The content available is from a diverse range of sources from the big 4 US networks and their subsidiaries and affiliates to subtitled (not dubbed) contemporary anime from Funimation and the like. It fixes MOST of the problems I have with traditional TV distribution, and it's legal.
So it requires Flash. BFD. It's a shame, but I understand why - Hulu needs room to breathe and focusing on the linux population when everybody else has Flash isn't good business.
As a corollary: my girlfriend runs Ubuntu 95% of the time but still boots into Windows to play WoW. It's a 30 second inconvenience for her, but it's an acceptable one balanced with what she gets out of it. Dem's tha breaks. It doesn't keep her up at night, and Hulu's content control won't keep me up at night, either, because it is much, MUCH better than paying Comcast an uncomfortably large amount of month for the more annoying alternative.
If you go to Boxee's site, then click download, you are given VERY clear instructions on what needs to be done.
The poster's "I've been trying to find it for ages" translates as "I'm too lazy to even bother going to the site". Seriously.
If someone is interested in an application (particularly an app that's still in alpha), the first thing they should do is visit their website.
Until Hulu releases a Linux version of their app, or Boxee releases a 64 bit Linux version with the Hulu hack, I don't care.
Hulu is a (perhaps illegal) collusion among NBC, FOX, and ABC (via their respective owners) to provide a "just right" level of service via the Internet -- enough that people are not (as) tempted by BitTorrent/iTunes, but not enough to make for a better experience than that available on a TV.
While I agree with your point, I don't agree with this comment. Hulu to me is significantly more convenient than watching the shows on TV. There is a significant amount of overhead involved with a DVR (the ones from the cable manufacturers are worse than not having one, PC ones require a constantly running power-hungry computer, etc.)
Hulu lets me watch the shows on my schedule, and while I think the network's availability restrictions are dated and costing them business, I would much rather watch four 30 second commercials than fool with everything else. Now, if Hulu increases ads beyond what they currently are, I can't say I'd stick with the service.
I don't want integration with the desktop. I want to be able to download the video as a stand-alone file and play it on my big screen via a media center box, and not on my dinky 17" monitor in my office. If I could get the video directly from a provider I'd even put up with 1 commercial per break period (like Hulu is doing now) embedded in it. As it is, my option now is to bit-torrent the shows that I like for immediate gratification, and then get the DVD's as they are released, so as to promote future seasons.
Hulu's legal structure is irrelevant. Bottom line is that the entity is owned primarily by NBC, ABC, and Fox. Unsurprisingly, the CEO of Hulu is more concerned with what his bosses -- the networks -- think of Hulu's effect on their business than he is with the Hulu profit margin. If his owner-suppliers like him, they can always decrease the license fee to increase the "profits". Since the networks are the owners, they get the money back anyway.
If the networks agreed to create Hulu to prevent competition from other providers (as they did), there could be an issue under antitrust law. But hey, I'm not an antitrust lawyer. My point is that when an entity's owners and its suppliers are the same, it's inherently a captive entity with none of its own objectives.
I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
I think that you might have boiled it down a bit too much.
It evaporated!
Works and looks great.
I had been bluetooth mousing it, but that had issues. BTW Magjaic Jack caused my MacBook to crash EVERY TIME I put the computer to sleep (good bye crappy VOIP).
6.8SPC TR of 550, l xwind at 6, drift rt at 26" drops 77". AT has 503 ft-lbs at 1403 fps. FT 0.86
Anyone with Solaris 10 can run dtrace on any adobe programs and see hundreds of thousands (100.000+) of wasted system calls constantly being made.
I did this with Acrobat Reader a few years ago and saw hundreds of get_current_time() calls every second. This is a read-only application, so why does it care what time it is?
Want to know more about DTrace? http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/content/dtrace/
I recently went to watch a movie on Hulu that was there before, isn't now. I searched Hulu for it, and the search Window told me that it was now available on crackle.com - and that welcomed me to the Sony Entertainment Group. Crackle doesn't buffer as Hulu does (in fact, if you pause long enough hoping to build a buffer - you'll just have to reload the page), but it does offer some form of hi-def - and their FAQ is worthless. While the hi-def was good, I couldn't get past a few minutes without hangs.
Now - today's subject is all about Hulu and Boxee. But also.... Hulu on Safari lately has been telling me that I'm blocking ads - when I'm doing no such thing, nor have upgraded Safari to cause this trouble, nor have I changed my settings.
All in all, it's just starting to feel like Hulu is starting to go the way of bad Hollywood management, instead of the encompassing, embracing way that we all hoped for.
I hope I'm wrong, but that's my two cents.
Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
Also, what the deuce is with the 2.4 GHz Core 2 duo requirement?
Last I checked, there are lots of still fairly expensive machines (admittedly mostly laptops these days) in the 1.8 -- 2.2 range. I myself just recently purchased a 2.0 machine* that has no trouble with the "high-def" hulu stream (the HD gallery, not the 480 "high def"), and that's with a browser wrapped around everything.
*which may be the real reason I'm upset....
It's just stupid video. What does the CPU need to do other than decrypt crap and move bits onto the video card?
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
I watch DVDs and video files fullscreen on my 20" old/1996 CRT TV (S-video). Does this program let you do the same? I hate having to do extended desktop and make my Web browser show video fullscreen on the TV. I also prefre to use clone display setup and still use my PC while TV is showing the video.
BTW, this is in an updated Windows XP Pro. SP3 with an ATI Radeon 4870 video card.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
I'm not sure why Hulu isn't beefing up other open source software, containers and codecs to meet these needs.
Um, did you miss the part about Hulu being a whole-hearted tool for the networks and Hollywood (aka MPAA)?
It would certainly make it easier for them to satisfy the media licenses with ad revenue.
It's not Hulu's ad revenue, it the networks'. Why do you think Hulu is only available to US IP addresses? It's because there's no point in advertising products/services only available in the US to viewers outside the US.
Sorry, I don't think something like that is necessary in this case.
If you go to Boxee's site, then click download, you are given VERY clear instructions on what needs to be done.
The poster's "I've been trying to find it for ages" translates as "I'm too lazy to even bother going to the site". Seriously.
If someone is interested in an application (particularly an app that's still in alpha), the first thing they should do is visit their website.
Microsoft has catered to the lazy user. Hell they take pride in it. If Linux is to get a meaningful share of desktop/netbook computers we must cater to lazy.
deb http://apt.boxee.tv/ hardy main
http://wiki.boxee.tv/Main_Page
Use these ad blocking DNS server to avoid the ads on Hulu and similar services. They work great. 75.147.151.12 71.249.184.157 205.232.175.67
I downloaded it and am trying it now. Very pleased to say that it is very light weight, uses the less evil Adobe Flash player (as opposed to Microsoft's .NET based Silver light), and so far works pretty good. If they begin to offer latest release movie rentals off this service, I' all for it!
You know what irritates me is that community of GNU/Linux users who routinely use the platform who don't complain. Those that do are often criticized for it because GNU/Linux has what many would call an insignificant market share. The thing is everybody wants to use it so there really isn't any excuse that companies don't support it. The reason many users can't use it is cause the companies don't support it. That circular effect is a LACK of people complaining who CAN and DO use it.
Here are two placed I'd suggest people start complaining:
Hulu's "Desktop Hulu" site is asking for feedback at:
http://www.hulu.com/discussions/19
Digg- don't requests outnumber requests for a GNU/Linux version:
http://digg.com/software/Hulu_Desktop_PC_and_Mac_clients
The problem is time and adoption.
Time? Sure thing. Hulu probably knows their way around Flash and can develop a standalone app in a week. ;)
Adoption? Fuck no. They're writing a standalone client. They can bundle *anything* *they* *want* with it to get it to work!
Hell, they could package mplayer and pipe commands to it to decode the video, and redirect the output to their app.
err.. I should've probably read the rest of GP's comment before posting. It's clear the CPU issue was already addressed.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
The Boxee client for the most part is opensource (being based on the GPL'd XBMC http://xbmc.org/, it has to be). However, the part of Boxee that handles Hulu, Netflix and the like is NOT open source. Instead, the Boxee client loads a proprietary, closed-source executable that then loads the Firefox flash or silverlight plugins. Encourage Boxee to open things up - it's clear that they're not gaining anything by having this stuff closed off.
GP here. Should have explained why I was thinking there was an alternative build.
Following the instructions on Boxee's site, installing Boxee, launching it, and going to the huge "HULU" button on your Video> Internet streams gives you "No results found" on every single Hulu page which is similar to the error I was seeing in broken mythtv and boxee hulu apps. Searching for that error message produced no solution (tried changing my login from email to nick). This was the reason I was asking for a link to an alternative build that worked since downloading the official one didn't work for me.
After mucking around I found that there's another option ("Hulu Feeds") which you have to enable first. Then you go to Video > Internet and skip "HULU" (It's worthless) and instead use "Hulu Streams" to find and play videos. There were no instructions on Boxees website for doing this.
Seems that the "HULU" button is only for playing videos you queue up from another computer (as far as I can tell), it won't play videos on it's own (or at least won't in my case).
I would rather see them make a stable client that runs on the standard opera based browsers that are used by nintendo archos etc- and the ps3.... it is lame that you can watch every streaming video site out there on them except hulu because they screw up their code to "protect" their content- I would be browsing hulu all of the time if it worked on other devices and that is what they want, right? viewership in order to increase advertising revenue?