Slashdot Mirror
Where Does a Geek Find a Social Life?
JustShootMe writes "I have a question for my fellow Slashdotters, and yes, I realize I am entering the lion's den covered in tasty meat-flavored sauce. I have never been a very social person, preferring to throw myself into technology; therefore, I've been spectacularly unsuccessful in developing any meaningful interpersonal relationships. Lately I have begun to feel that this situation is not tenable, and I would like to fix it. But I really don't know how and haven't the faintest idea where to start. I know that I am in the minority and that there are many different kinds of Slashdot readers, most of whom have more experience in this realm than I do. So please tell me: how, and more importantly, where do you meet fellow geeks — preferably including some of the opposite gender — in meatspace?"
I don't know where you'd meet a woman in realspace, since I met my wife on-line. But that was 29 years ago, so that old trick probably won't work any more.
John
don't call it meatspace, it freaks out the normal people.
You could start by not ASKING SLASHDOT...
Craigslist....choose, but choose wisely.
Go to a dance instructor. You've got the money. Pay for lessons. Then go to group dance lessons. Meet people there and then get groups going to dance clubs.
All your problems will disappear.
Unless you're a girl. All the above assumes you're a boy. You're a boy, right? OK, then go learn to dance.
Eric Raymond's famous essays on relationships and the modern geek: http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/sextips/
Linux groups would be a good bet for meeting more geeks. Something that help me get out of my shell at an early age was a martial arts club. Most times you will find they have a good set of values and a nice sense of community. Also it helps with self esteem. I have found this question to have a snow ball response. Once you start getting out and enlarging your comfort zone things can grow quickly. Checking out events in your area and region with social network sites and local arts events / classes can also go a long way. Approaching new people is easier when you are approachable, be friendly smile make eye contact and most of all simple complements. Oh and getting a 2nd job in a bar will change you for life.
. . . the book store.
My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.
First of all, don't talk like you do in your summary. Using overly precise words will freak normal people out (Geeks tend to find it pretentious, as well.) Find a local geek hangout spot, hang back and observe. Smile when something is amusing, laugh when it's funny. Say nothing until you feel comfortable. Do this until you are having a conversation. Repeat conversations until you are invited to activities with people. Repeat until you have friends. But most of all, throw your research away, stop asking Slashdot like you're preparing a technical writeup...and Relax! People are fun.
Not using terms like meatspace. Really. Where are we, the fridge?
Why limit yourself to geeks? I spent years at various Universities trying and failing to meet women and it wasn't until I started doing stuff outside of my normal group that I did. I took up figure skating of all things and met my future wife. Now you may ask why a red blooded male would take up figure skating. Same reason I did cookery at school. No red blooded male would do them so there were loads of females and no competition.
Get out, take up a social activity. A friend of mine in a similar situation took up dancing and ended up meeting lots of girls too.
"I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
Some ideas:
If you're unafraid of your klutziness, join a dance troupe. Or a theatre group. You'd be surprised; most such organizations desperately need someone to do lighting and such, and are woefully ignorant of basics. So if you can wire a lightswitch, can follow a script, you can be a stagehand or a technical director.
Volunteer for trail building. OK, this only works if you're an outdoor person, but that's where the sort of women I like hang out. You can build a trail in a local park, get to work next to some really good looking women, and perhaps have something to talk about - especially if you can keep your mouth shut and listen to eco babble about salmon runs and invasive species.
Or....
Anyway, find an activity that's not a dating meatmarket. Someplace where your social awkwardness (if such exists) is irrelevant, where you're working toward a common goal, and pretty soon you'll find some fellow tree planter or trail builder or invasive-species puller is asking you to come out next weekend to do something else.
The whole idea is that if you set out to find "fellow geeks" you'll end up in a room full of guys with stilted conversations about geek stuff. If you set out to do something different, and are honest and accepting and funny about your ineptitude, you will meet some really cool people.
The need is huge, the hands very limited, and the job has awesome fringe benefits: you like the person in the mirror and you work with some people who are willing to stop yakking long enough to actually help people.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
Perhaps it has been so long that it just seems like Slashdot use to be an actual site you could turn to every day and read a nice cross section of laypeople and industry experts discussing interesting technology topics.
Can't all these inane 'Ask Slashdot' - aka Please Give Me Attention!!! articles be done away with?
Just. Fucking. Google. It.
If you try something and it fails, you can always reload from a previous saved game. If only real life were like that... "Wow, that didn't go over well. ctrl-z! ctrl-z!"
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
Get a dog. - Gordon Gecko
Sig this!
It doesn't matter where you go, or what you do. Just start talking, and when it feels awkward, and people give weird feedback, don't take it personally, move on, and try again. After a while, you'll be person of character, and able to interact meaningfully with everyone.
You really have to read this and have Google Images open elsewhere wtih pictures of ESR to appreciate the humour fully.
He already tried sitting in the basement eating Cheetos and playing WoW all day...no luck so far.
My girlfriend is a 2nd grade teacher. She and all her co-workers are single, female, very intellectual, super educated (masters degree is required), and very hot. Can't meet anyone of the opposite sex at work? They can't either!
Well, the one "skill" most people neglect to mention is simply approaching women and asking them out. I'm not saying you should be an ass and hit on every girl you see, but if you respectfully ask if they'd like to go out sometime they'll either be flattered and decline or say yes. You'll get rejected less often if you're honest about who you are and look for someone like yourself. Are you an overweight nerd that's into renaissance fairs? Walk up to the next chubby girl you meet at the fair and ask it she'd like to split a turkey leg.
There's a world of socially awkward women desperate for someone to show some interest in them. Be confident, don't fear rejection, and make the women that show interest in you feel desirable and attractive.
I met my wife online too, but before that, a motorcycle did wonders for my social life (in fact, it was the bike that gave me the confidence to meet her in person.)
Before I had the bike, I was shy and had low self esteem ... I was dateless for over two years. Within a few weeks of getting the bike, I was getting 2-3 girls a week asking me out! Seriously.. a motorcycle turns "shy and introverted" into "dark and brooding". (But don't assume that every woman will ask you out - if one comes over and talks to you about your machine, chat with her a bit about the bike and offer her a ride.)
Some caveats:
I find rum gives me the same ability :)
http://www.meetup.com/
I had the same problem as you, when my ex-girlfriend moved out; she'd managed to alienate literally everyone I'd previously ever known, including family members.
I joined a Meetup group about 18 months ago, and was eventually made Organizer. I host monthly groups, and out of a resident membership of around 100 people, I get regular attendance of close to a dozen people now. There are also Meetups for just about every possible kind of general interest you can think of, including some which are purely for random socialising.
Wait, I don't understand!
I can't follow that, what happened to ??? ?
It's a critical step and it's not there! *head explodes*
Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
For one, if you're geeky enough to use the word in casual speech, you might well find people who freak out at such vocabulary to be tiresome, so using the term works as a kind of social self selection.
For two, read the wonderful short story, They're Made out of Meat . Choice quote:
Cheers,
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
Just a little nerd trivia. "A rich man entering heaven is as a camel going through the eye of a needle" It is possible that this reference was to the smaller gate of a city referred to as a 'needle gate' that was used at night when the larger gate was closed. In order for a camel to pass through the needle gate it had to be stripped of all it's cargo. Thus, it is possible that the reference of a camel going through the eye of a needle is just another way of saying: "You can't take it with ya!"
I met a future girlfriend while mountain biking...
I think I know what you were trying to say (you met a girl while mountain biking who then later became your girlfriend) but the way you said it makes it sound like it was a time traveling bicycle or you're some creepy guy stalking her trying to make her love you.
If you build it, nerds will come. Soylentnews.org
It's amazing how much of this thread is about action, and how little about traction. The Seligman video I watching this morning on TED discusses how psychiatry is devoted to getting people from -infinity (suicidal) to zero (empty, but not distressed); there hasn't been much study about how to get people from zero to something better.
A lot of the advice here is from the -infinity to zero camp: having none to having some. You could end up with someone you're not very well suited to, who doesn't really see you for who you are (see the "mold like putty" post), and with few emotional skills to make a relationship last more than three months.
Women have finely tuned sensors about men who are posing for effect. If a woman doesn't have this skill, she's nothing but trouble herself.
90% of success in relationships comes from listening skills, mostly of the non-verbal variety. The safest place to start an intimate conversation with a women you don't know very well is about her relationships: family members or close friends. If you have the knack of non-verbal communication, you'll pick up many small clues from body language during the rambling chit-chat. Note that most women tend to be peace-makers at heart, so if a chick is rambling endlessly about a relationship and your head is starting to spin from all the mindless detail (e.g. dress colour selection as a bridesmaid) there is usually some relationship tension hiding in there.
The next step is to engage the emotional clues you're getting with your own emotional content. It's hard to ask sensitive questions if you sound like you're filling out an insurance claim form. It works better to go "I was listening to you the other day and I started to get this feeling, so I started to wonder if there was more to your story." The first five words will catch most women off guard, the rest of it is fairly non-directive, and the woman will regard it as a small trophy that you, as a man, admit to having emotional responses. She'll want to affirm your bravery by telling more of the story.
Even if I pose this as a bit of gambit, you're best off being completely authentic. Note that this is hard, delicate work. Inauthenticity is a kind of lie, and lies become hard to remember.
If you're not insulting with your content, don't be too afraid of occasional conflict. Women tend to seek resolution, so you're almost certain to be given a chance to redeem yourself. At this point, be gentle, but act like you have a backbone. As much as women will try to mold you, they get cranky if they have too much success at this. At the end of the day, you can't rely on putty.
Women tend to be more straightforward about their emotions with their close friends than their romantic partners. Another detail it is important to bear in mind is that women experience the same range of emotions as men, including dark emotions of anger and hostility, but they tend to dress it up differently, and the rules are complicated about when this can be openly discussed (with some women, never, but these are not choice companions).
No matter how good you become with your communication skills, your biology is down there shuffling the deck, making things at the surface confusing as hell. Women tend to assume that if you're not confused by your emotions at some point, you aren't fully invested. A little bit of volatility proves you're alive. So don't be afraid once in a while to venture off script.
In the long run your sanity will be much improved if you reach the state of being where you can say "vive la différence" about all this heartache and really mean it.
The number one predictor of a successful romance is shared value systems, and the number one predictor of a successful long term relationship is emotional engagement. Eventually, even great sex becomes a matter of psychology and emotion, and for that, you need to find something in yourself worth sharing.
If you find a gal that is candid, then you will know that the similar stimulation factors involving the motorcycle's seat/vibration characteristics compare favorably to the seat/movement stimulus of a horse under saddle for said gal.
For you motorcycle-less, and horse-less dudes, there is still hope.
Howard Stern conducted an impromptu 'experiment' involving a powerful subwoofer that the gal could 'ride' astraddle of a sub-woofer under his control that achieved the same orgasmic results of motorcycles and horseback riding.
Imagination and creativity is your friend.
Studies conducted decades ago came to the conclusion [citation needed-too lazy to look]that date scenarios that induced adrenaline and other thrills increased your odds of getting lucky on dates...scary movies, thrilling carnival rides, riding 'shotgun' in safe, sanctioned drag races, bungee jumping, etc...all produced positive results far better than the typical 'dinner, chic-flick movie, then try to enter on delivery to domicile'(can I come in for coffee, or 'one for the road') approach.(there seems to be some correlation between adrenaline induced episodes invoking some kind of sexual arousal...may be related to some survival instinct or dopamine levels in the brain chemistry)
It seemed that the more novel the date setting==increased 'getting lucky' factor.
Exercise her mind and imagination with the date setting, don't be afraid as being lame for not following the time accepted formula..chicks dig getting a non-standard date...it shows innovation and 'outside of the box thinking', which will make them feel special and cherished.
I once took a gal to an annual 'Machinegun shoot' in Arizona, packed a picnic lunch.
I let her fire many different select fire, and automatic-fire weapons during the day.
We did not get 3 miles from the shoot and she was suggesting us getting a motel room to 'work off' the excitement.
Get out to groups that share your interests, and talk to any interesting(to you) gals in those groups to find likely candidates for dates.
Being turned down is just a filter to apply, not the end of the world, nor hope. Even if just talking to them gives you a platonic friend, that's still a plus!(hint:the more desperate you seem/act/come across as, the less chance you have.
A wedding band caused me to need a baseball bat to keep them away right after I got married!
Act somewhat aloof, but friendly to all for good results.
Somewhat shadier, but extremely successful, is if you have a friend that has a small child, especially a really cute 4-5 year old boy...offer to babysit, then take him grocery shopping. Make sure to take your 'little black book', as you will fill it before you get to the checkout line!!!!!
My college roomate (female-it was a 'big brother/surrogate hubby relationship-purely platonic..she was a single Mom, 12 years my junior, but convenient for us both at the time to 'set up house' together-we had separate social lives) had such a son, so I know it works(see shopping/babysitting tip above...I was exhibiting a 'nurturing/protective' attitude that long-term relationship gals were looking for subconsciously. apparently, and they came in droves and flocks!
I have found other effective techniques, but the bottom line:
1. stick to the truth at all times, it's much easier to remember 'one true story' that subsequent inquiries will inevitably expose/uncover, thus corroborate...it will happen!
2. avoid bars/clubs as 'girl shopping' areas, unless you are a 'knight in shining armor', and can afford to put up with the complications tha always seem to arise...still recommended against, but YMMV. YMMV adversely to exceptions more often than not-be forewarned!
3. avoid preconceptions and expectations, enjoy and treasure the jewels you find...even if they are not 'that right one'
4. beauty is not skin deep...beauty is like a properly cut, dressed, faceted, and polished gemstone. There are many facets that combine to make true beauty, which endures
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
And besides that, its kind of stupid to try to find yourself a geek girlfriend. It may sound nice first, but your world viewing will be really limited and she will be just another nerdy thing there. I have a girlfriend that isn't really that nerdy at all, and shes dragged me to places I wouldn't otherwise go, but its always been fun in the end then and I get to see totally new aspect of life, not just the computer and internet. People need a push to do something different, and thats the perfect and most fun push. So dont again limit your activies to the nerdy stuff.
Now the thing isn't at all about what you do or what you're interested in. You just have to make it sound *interesting* and *create your personal style* that will stand you off from the group. That's the most critical part that most geeks dont see. They just try to act "normal" and end up looking shy and non-interesting. Most girls dont want "just another normal guy". Cocky but fun stories or talking works great btw, I landed my own gf by asking her questions noone else dared to ask and told her stuff noone else woulnd't dare to tell, but in a funny and laughting way. It also makes you interesting and creates attraction, and in the end way more open relationship aswell.
Non-geeky girls also tend to be a bit cuter and better looking too ;) (sorry slashdot girls, you're sexy tho!)
There's lots of great advice in this thread about location, and tips on how not to freak someone else out.
But one thing to keep in mind, probably tip number 1 in my mind anyways, is once you've met someone interesting, don't forget to pull the trigger.
By this, I mean you have to act if you want to get anywhere. Don't worry too much about the consequences of said actions, and play it relaxed. So, if you see a lady you might be interested in, strike up a conversation. See if you can get 5 minutes of not-uncomfortable small talk. If you can get that far, maybe ask if she'd like to continue the conversation over coffee. Don't suggest coffee at a later date (but don't argue if that's what she counters with) -- just do it.
Commit yourself to coffee and nothing more. Do your best to convince yourself that the entire meeting ends once the cup is empty, and just focus on having a meaningful encounter for 20 or 30 minutes.
If things are going well, hint that it would be fun to meet up again sometime. If she agrees, ask for her number.
When you call her back, have something interesting that you'd like to suggest doing. Dinner is always safe, but make sure the restaurant matches the girl (eg. if during coffee she mentioned that she moved from the coast to Wisconsin, and misses Indian food, see if you can find somewhere with a wicked curry - don't, however, just book a dinner at a nice restaurant and assume that's OK). Better than dinner, try finding an activity, with a fixed start and stop time, that could be fun for both of you. Maybe there's a con or a concert in the park, or you and some friends are heading to the beach for an afternoon with a bar-b-q (note: this is only a good idea if there are other ladies coming, four dudes on an empty beach will be creepy).
If you think things are going well, and you feel a spark, initiate some kind of physical encounter. Start with casual touch (putting your hand on her shoulder, or on the small of her back), then move up to less casual from there. The more basic contact there is, the less creepy non-standard contact will seem. That is, if you kiss someone out of nowhere it will feel strange. If you have already been in physical contact, it's the next logical step. Also, this gives you a good way to assess how she's feeling. If she recoils in terror, you're probably not getting lucky tonight. If she's fine with it, or if she seems into it, awesome. Then, by all means, man up and kiss her when the time seems good. (But don't' wait too long or she'll get confused and think that you're her new gay knitting friend. You have intentions, let her know them.) A lot of geeks fool themselves into not acting on the physical side, by saying things like 'I'm respecting her boundaries by letting her pick the level of physicality...' Blah blah blah, most (not all) women are taught to not initiate things like a first kiss - they are supposed to flirt and encourage you to act, but not to actually do it. If you don't, you'll both end up waiting.
At this point, I leave the rest up to you.
OK, so this seems like pretty basic advice, but all of this is a specific counter to something that would block your standard socially awkward introvert:
- Not starting a conversation. (Just talk to her!)
- Not asking for a date. (Coffee is a date, but isn't scary.)
- Putting too much pressure on the first date. (You're just meeting someone, not assessing their potential as a life partner)
- Not calling her back. (Why do people ask for numbers they won't use?)
- Being over the top, or too generic in the second date. (Pick specific, interesting, encounters. And yes, your selection is a test.)
- Scared of physical encounter. (Touching is good.)
- Not getting past the friend barrier. (Once you are kissing someone, they have a good idea of where the relationship is going.)
Amen. First step is for the poor guy to stop calling himself a geek and seeing it as some sort of badge of identity. Treat people as people and why on Earth does he think he has to find someone who labels themselves according to some stereotype. Sharing some interests is fine. But the main things is you get on and fill the roles in each others lives that you both want to. You meet girls the same way anyone else on the planet does. You go out, you try to be fun and you mix with people until you find someone you like and who likes you. There is no special rule for people who... well, whatever the definition of "geek" is because I certainly don't know what the definition is
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
don't view non-geeks as "mundane". The "meatspace" will earn the "weird" label, but the "mundane" will earn the "motherfucking asshole" label, and justifiably so.
At least he did not call them muggles.....
On the other hand: getting a nice haircut, wearing 'normal' clothes and acting a bit more normal isn't going to hurt either.
Ugh. You mean go out among the mundanes wearing clean jeans and a t-shirt with some kind of pop-culture reference on it?
Do you have any IDEA what you're risking there?
The hell with that. If she doesn't get my "Is it solipsistic in here, or is it just me?" t-shirt, then I don't wanna know her.
Unless of course you can't stand bars. Ihave been in only one where it was any fun most bars are boring unless you are talkative. If you don't care about talking to random strangers then bars are useless. You haveto do something to waitfor thehours that women actually show up that aren't taken
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
Yeah. And the problem with this is the girls you find in bars is that they are the kind of girls you find in bars.
Hoist Number One and Number Six.
Thankfully, the Unitarian Universalist churches don't require you to believe anything about Jesus except that either he (or whoever made up what he said) had some pretty good ideas about how to treat people. They tend to be very inclusive of atheists as well as theists of all stripes.
I am officially gone from