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How the Obama Copyright Policies Might Unfold

An anonymous reader points out a column by James Boyle, who knows a thing or two about copyright, analyzing the Obama Administration's policy choices about intellectual property and high tech. "Traditionally, Democratic administrations take their copyright policy direct from Hollywood and the recording industry. Unfortunately, so do Republican administrations. The capture of regulators by the industry they regulate is nothing new, of course, but in intellectual property there is the added benefit that incumbents can frequently squelch competing technologies and business methods before they ever come into existence. ... The Obama administration's warm embrace of Silicon Valley, and Silicon Valley's checkbook, had given some hope that this pattern would change — and I think it will. Now, instead of taking copyright policy direct from the media conglomerates (who, after all, have a very legitimate point of view — even if not the only point of view) it is quite likely that the administration will construct it as a contract between content companies and high-technology companies such as Google. In some places, citizens and consumers will probably benefit, simply because optimizing for the interests of two economic blocs rather than one is likely to give us a slightly more balanced, and less technology-phobic, set of rules. And perhaps the administration will go further. But recent actions make me doubt that this is the case."

188 comments

  1. Don't bet on it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Obama was elected thanks to the media. They're the ones who refused to cover anyone except Obama, they're the ones who forced the Democratic Party to skip the part of their convention where they count delegates' votes, they're the ones who completely ignored Ron Paul's existence and went out of their way to paint McCain as a senile old man and Palin as a crazy country bumpkin.

    Obama owes the media, and you'll bet they'll collect.

    1. Re:Don't bet on it by FudRucker · · Score: 1

      RE:"Obama owes the media, and you'll bet they'll collect."

      more like the media p0wns Obama.

      --
      Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
    2. Re:Don't bet on it by ysth · · Score: 1

      they're the ones who completely ignored Ron Paul's existence

      Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel, too.

    3. Re:Don't bet on it by Moryath · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No kidding.

      And regarding the "very legitimate point of view -- even if not the only point of view" - I call bullshit. Fuck the consumer is never a legitimate point of view.

    4. Re:Don't bet on it by aeschenkarnos · · Score: 0, Troll
      they're the ones who completely ignored Ron Paul's existence and went out of their way to paint McCain as a senile old man and Palin as a crazy country bumpkin.

      That would have taken about a teaspoon of paint.

    5. Re:Don't bet on it by hedwards · · Score: 4, Funny

      Don't they do that in the Netherlands? Or have they shut down their red light districts?

    6. Re:Don't bet on it by hedwards · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's strange a candidate who has precisely zero chance of every becoming relevant is ignored by the people that are supposed to be covering the news. If only there were some organization with the guts to cover things that nobody really cares about.

      Seriously though, what exactly entitles Ron Paul to coverage. At some point you actually have to put up a decent showing if you wish to get time on the national news, it's strange how you have to be involved in the news to make it into the news. Just because the news media has a tendency to give the right wing a free pass doesn't mean that it should.

    7. Re:Don't bet on it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Seriously though, what exactly entitles Ron Paul to coverage.

      Well, clearly not getting second place in a state's presidential primary, as when that happened (Nevada) all of the news reports read "Romney first, McCain third", not mentioning the "Paul second" part anywhere. I agree Ron Paul had no chance of winning, but he got even less coverage than the others who had even less chance of winning.

    8. Re:Don't bet on it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just because the news media has a tendency to give the right wing a free pass doesn't mean that it should.

      WTF are you talking about?

    9. Re:Don't bet on it by McGiraf · · Score: 2, Funny

      Where did you get that impression from?

    10. Re:Don't bet on it by smittyoneeach · · Score: 2, Informative

      More like the both are wholly p0wned subsidiaries of the plutocrats.

      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    11. Re:Don't bet on it by OECD · · Score: 4, Interesting

      they're the ones who completely ignored Ron Paul's existence

      Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel, too.

      True, but it was particularly obvious in Ron Paul's case, when he was getting vote tallies on par with Giulliani's in the early primaries and they refused to label Paul's wedge in their pie charts.

      --
      One man's -1 Flamebait is another man's +5 Funny.
    12. Re:Don't bet on it by bennomatic · · Score: 1

      they're the ones who completely ignored Ron Paul's existence

      Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel, too.

      No no, that was everybody.

      --
      The CB App. What's your 20?
    13. Re:Don't bet on it by Grimbleton · · Score: 1

      Duh. The media.

    14. Re:Don't bet on it by McGiraf · · Score: 1

      Duh.

    15. Re:Don't bet on it by cK-Gunslinger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      .. went out of their way to paint McCain as a senile old man and Palin as a crazy country bumpkin.

      If by "went out of thier way," you meant "turned the cameras on and stepped back," then I agree with you completely. You can't blame everything on the media, the dancing monkeys on TV performed their act as well.

    16. Re:Don't bet on it by mrclisdue · · Score: 1

      I get all my impressions from /. .

      btw, who's this Don Paul guy?

      tia,

    17. Re:Don't bet on it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I don't doubt that the Republicans would have lost the last election regardless - but there's no way Obama would have won the Democratic nomination without massive media support.

      Without the media fawning over Obama, we'd likely have President Clinton right now. Of course, the media also killed the candidacy of Edwards, who otherwise was in a dead heat with those two at the start of the 2008 primaries.

      The media actively campaigned for Obama. There's no other way to explain how he managed to beat Hillary Clinton - especially when you realize that by the end of the primaries, they were statistically tied. (Obama was leading Hillary by an estimated 13 delegates - out of 2,071. So ahead by 0.6%.)

      But they never bothered actually counting the delegate votes at the convention, so we'll never know who would have won had the Democratic Party decided to run themselves as a democracy.

    18. Re:Don't bet on it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Uh huh. Because Hillary would SO have won. Except for that whole giving up thing.

      And pissing off most of the Democrats by being a sore loser.

      Palin was a fucking moron, and it was her own fault.

      Not going to pass judgement on McCain, but I always heard very little from him (talking about words directly from his mouth) except what he thought was wrong about Obama's ideas. Very little on his own ideas.

    19. Re:Don't bet on it by aarroneous · · Score: 1

      Why is this modded insightful and not informative? It's a fact that the reporting prior to Nevada would typically report the top 5 candidates after each primary, but when Rob Paul came in 2nd in Nevada, it wasn't mentioned - ANYWHERE.

    20. Re:Don't bet on it by LKM · · Score: 0

      Ron Paul was in the news more than his actual chances warranted, and I don't think I've seen any statistic that showed Obama getting a lot more media coverage than McCain. I believe Obama's coverage was on average more positive than McCain's, but then, McCain did everything to ensure that this was the case. Palin got depicted as a crazy country bumpkin because she was unable to answer even softball questions like "what papers do you read."

      It's easy to see some kind of narrative when there is none. In this case, I believe you're vastly exaggerating what actually happened.

    21. Re:Don't bet on it by Toonol · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Most insightful response I've seen in a long time, and I have no mod points.

    22. Re:Don't bet on it by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Saying that the media elected Obama is an obvious lie.

      1) The media wanted Hillary Clinton if anyone elected. Not Barack Obama. And yet despite the 'media bias' for Hillary (which is to say she was well known and popular before the start of the campaign).
      2) George Bush won twice. Somehow the same media which covered the John Kerry "Veterans for Truth" smear campaign also has a bias for Obama?
      3) We went to war with a country with almost no media investigation or inquiry. Somehow the same media which hung on Bush's every lie in the leadup to the Iraq war is the same media which wanted Obama to win?

      Cable news is many things. But plotting to elect Barack Obama was not one of the accomplishments.

      And Palin has NOBODY but herself to blame for being thought of as a crazy country bumpkin. "I can field dress a moose". Wow what a cultured and intellectual girl she must be! She played "I'm normal folk" from day one at the top of her lungs. The fact that people decided they didn't want a moose hunter and small town mayor as their VP is to say they listened to HER PITCH and decided that wasn't what they wanted.

      And Ron Paul. People listen to Ron Paul. And people don't like Ron Paul. It's as simple as that. Notice that Ron Paul got infinitely more coverage than Dennis Kucinich.

      The day that Dennis Kucinich or the Green Party gets regular media coverage is the day I'll believe there is a strong pro-liberal slant in the media.

    23. Re:Don't bet on it by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Well, clearly not getting second place in a state's presidential primary, as when that happened (Nevada) all of the news reports read "Romney first, McCain third", not mentioning the "Paul second" part anywhere. I agree Ron Paul had no chance of winning, but he got even less coverage than the others who had even less chance of winning.

      Maybe because your story isn't true?

      I just Googled Nevada GOP Primary. Clicked the first news story http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22739349/

      Headline is:
      Clinton, Romney win in Nevada
      Texas' Paul to finish second in state's GOP caucuses

      They don't talk much about Ron Paul in the story. Probably because he got the same number of caucus seats as McCain. So although McCain got third he actually in effect tied for second. And since Ron Paul was currently polling in the low single digits there was no reason to believe it was anything other than a fluke in an unimportant caucus won by the guy who came in third place in the end anyway. And take one look at Rudy Giuliani. If the media was to be believed then he was a shoe in. So if Huckabee could go from obscure to competitive second then there is no reason Ron Paul couldn't have as well despite minimal media coverage. The simple fact of the matter is most people think Ron Paul is a nut job because he advocates things they don't believe in nor want to vote for.

    24. Re:Don't bet on it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes they still do, but OTOH downloading is also still legal in the Netherlands.

    25. Re:Don't bet on it by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      went out of their way to paint McCain as a senile old man and Palin as a crazy country bumpkin.

      I dislike the RIAA ties as much as any slashdotter, and I voted for RP in the primary, but really... this part really wasn't difficult.

    26. Re:Don't bet on it by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 2, Informative

      and I don't think I've seen any statistic that showed Obama getting a lot more media coverage than McCain

      Time and Newsweek, for example. (Speaking of 2008)
      "Obama's face or name has somehow made it onto the cover of Time just about half of the time this year (25 out of 52 issues -- 48%)
      Newsweek has had 49 issues this year so far (through Dec. 22), so Obama has been featured on about a quarter of its covers as well."

      "...the Republican nominee, John McCain, made the cover of Newsweek just four times the entire year, and twice he shared it -- once with Obama and once with Sarah Palin"

    27. Re:Don't bet on it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ya, its better if the media shows a president strutting around on a aircraft carrier celebrating victory in a war that is still going on 6 years later.

    28. Re:Don't bet on it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damn I wish I had mod points, because if anything in this discussion was insightful, it was this. Conspiracy theories are always nice to entertain and interesting to think about, but in the end, 99.999% of the time answer is a lot less nefarious than that. For the most part, the media is a probably a lot more interested in pushing stories that viewers/readers/listeners will be interested in than it is in pushing stories that promote their secret agenda.

    29. Re:Don't bet on it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      If by "turned the cameras on and stepped back" you mean "sent an army of investigators to BFE, Alaska to partake in the largest muckraking and personal attack smear machine in a generation," then I agree with you. Where were all of the reporters crawling all over Chicago asking the tough questions about Obama's unlikely meteoric rise from obscurity to prominence in the most politically-corrupt city outside Washington, D.C.? Where were all of the pop culture celebrity hit pieces against Michelle and the girls? Why was The Messiah's family off-limits, but it was open-season on the Palins? I don't see how one can not be disgusted at the level of innuendo brought against the Palin family - things that had NOTHING to do with her ability as an executive authority (of which she had tremendously more experience than Barack Obama, btw). If David Letterman had made a rape joke about one of Obama's daughters, can you just imagine what his fate might be today? It would have made Don Imus look like child's play!

    30. Re:Don't bet on it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obama was elected thanks to the media. They're the ones who refused to cover anyone except Obama, they're the ones who forced the Democratic Party to skip the part of their convention where they count delegates' votes, they're the ones who completely ignored Ron Paul's existence and went out of their way to paint McCain as a senile old man and Palin as a crazy country bumpkin.

      Obama owes the media, and you'll bet they'll collect.

      I'm sure this is valid for some segment of the country, or maybe even most. But when I went to vote in the primary, I voted for Obama over Hillary because their stances were almost identical except in some other key areas. For all of the media's faults, if you look up anything on Palin you'll find her to be mostly Bush in a dress, from the non-separation of church and state to the way she wants to conduct U.S. Foreign policy. Any politician that wants to have intelligent design taught in science classrooms deserves a giant bitch-slap from anyone with half a brain in this country, and she supports that bullshit too. I'd say her portrayal is quite a bit more accurate than McCain's or even Obama's in the media. McCain got ignored because he had a high probability of dying in office and leaving us with Palin for president. Which I couldn't vote for under any circumstances.

    31. Re:Don't bet on it by operagost · · Score: 1

      The fact that people decided they didn't want a moose hunter and small town mayor as their VP is to say they listened to HER PITCH and decided that wasn't what they wanted.

      Apparently, the people decided they wanted a blowhard who likes to put his foot in his mouth for VP, instead.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    32. Re:Don't bet on it by mpeskett · · Score: 1

      Letterman didn't make a rape joke, he made a joke about her daughter getting "knocked up". Seems somewhat justifiable considering the daughter in question had in fact recently been knocked up.

      HBN says it best; "David Letterman didn't sexualise Bristol Palin, her boyfriend did, and not with a throwaway monologue joke, but with, y'know, his penis.

    33. Re:Don't bet on it by skarphace · · Score: 1

      If by "turned the cameras on and stepped back" you mean "sent an army of investigators to BFE, Alaska to partake in the largest muckraking and personal attack smear machine in a generation," then I agree with you. Where were all of the reporters crawling all over Chicago asking the tough questions about Obama's unlikely meteoric rise from obscurity to prominence in the most politically-corrupt city outside Washington, D.C.?

      Nowhere, because the media already knew about Obama. However, Palin was a total unknown and information needed to be gathered.

      Where were all of the pop culture celebrity hit pieces against Michelle and the girls? Why was The Messiah's family off-limits, but it was open-season on the Palins?

      Palin and her family was an easier target. Besides, I remember a few things going against Michelle, anyway. The whole country and respect statement she made was shouted by the rooftops for days on end.

      Go ahead and have the false feeling of a downtrodden minority somewhere else.

      --
      Bullish Machine Tzar
    34. Re:Don't bet on it by blueskies · · Score: 1

      Youtube? Killing turkeys in the background of her thanksgiving day turkey pardon.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0r7TJUTn1c (at 4:00)

    35. Re:Don't bet on it by blueskies · · Score: 1

      I'm sure it had nothing to do with her trotting her pregnant daughter up on stage.

      If you are a walking hypocrite you might get called for it...

    36. Re:Don't bet on it by blueskies · · Score: 1

      Agreed.

      And it had nothing to do with the Republican Party being a bunch of greedy megalomanics and everybody was sick of them turning their country into a Fascist state?

    37. Re:Don't bet on it by The+Spoonman · · Score: 1

      I got it from listening to them speak.

      --
      Which is more painful? Going to work or gouging your eye out with a spoon? Find out!
      http://www.workorspoon.com
    38. Re:Don't bet on it by recharged95 · · Score: 1
      Tada. That's the truth.

      .

      Obama got Silicon valley's checkbook because of Pelosi. It's a Cali thing.

      Obama hands down had huge support from Hollywood and considering he's been to SoCal two times already for fund-raising events since Jan says a lot. How many times has he been to the valley since the election?

      The only reason he's into technology is because his teleprompters and [mainly] his Blackberry. Otherwise, he, as any typical lawyer, would care less about tech.

    39. Re:Don't bet on it by DinDaddy · · Score: 1

      and went out of their way to paint McCain as a senile old man and Palin as a crazy country bumpkin.

      Agree on McCain, but I think that was the factory paint job on Palin.

    40. Re:Don't bet on it by McGiraf · · Score: 1

      In person? or chosen snippets on TV?

    41. Re:Don't bet on it by Doomdark · · Score: 1
      they're the ones who forced the Democratic Party to skip the part of their convention where they count delegates' votes,

      Nice conspiracy theory, but a misguided one. DP itself wanted to skip it (except for mrs. Clinton), to "show unity". As in, grouping behind the most likely candidate that could win the general election.

      --
      I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
    42. Re:Don't bet on it by The+Spoonman · · Score: 1

      Of course not in person, I'm registered Independant and always have been. Neither side allows anyone who has ever considered not agreeing 100% with them within 5 miles of a place they're speaking. Of course it was chosen snippets....

      The Republican debates, the Obama debates, their statements in the Congressional Record, the VP debates, their stumping speeches when available. And, yes, some mass media sources like the infamous Katie Couric interview...which, they readily admit was heavily edited...in Palin's favor. The stuff they released after was worse than what they aired. But, I also watched when they were interviewed on Fox News. But, you know, I still think he's a senile old man and Palin's a crazy redneck bumpkin that I wouldn't even want attending PTA meetings, let alone a heartbeat away...shudder...

      --
      Which is more painful? Going to work or gouging your eye out with a spoon? Find out!
      http://www.workorspoon.com
    43. Re:Don't bet on it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Careful there, you'll be modded down as a troll too. These Republicans would prefer to blame other reasons for their failure than the horrendous behaviour of their party. If you draw attention to reality they will shout you down (or in this case mod you down). Apparently the truth is trolling if it exposes an unwelcome truth.

    44. Re:Don't bet on it by Dorinda · · Score: 1

      And it had nothing to do with the Republican Party being a bunch of greedy megalomanics and everybody was sick of them turning their country into a Fascist state?

      I agree with this too. Obviously modded into oblivion by Republicans that don't want to face the facts - they lost because their party were a pack of assholes that turned the US into the most hated country on earth and not all the other excuses they use like media bias.

      I notice that you used a capital F there. That makes your comment insightful, not a troll. Fascism with a capital F (ie as stated in Mussolini's manifesto) is exactly what they were doing, to the letter as far as I can tell.

      I guess I'll get modded down to hell now too.

    45. Re:Don't bet on it by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      You think that's bad, try being John Edwards. The night of the New Hampshire primary, I read an article on the results that dutifully listed the Republican totals down to the 7-9% range. John Edwards, who won 18% of the vote IIRC, wasn't even mentioned.

    46. Re:Don't bet on it by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Tada. That's the truth.

      No, that's sophistry. Obama raised hundreds of millions, mostly from small donors with $100 being the average.

      There's plenty to knock Obama over (FISA flip flop, failing to prosecute torturers) without having to make shit up.

    47. Re:Don't bet on it by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Obama was elected thanks to the media. They're the ones who refused to cover anyone except Obama, they're the ones who forced the Democratic Party to skip the part of their convention where they count delegates' votes, they're the ones who completely ignored Ron Paul's existence and went out of their way to paint McCain as a senile old man and Palin as a crazy country bumpkin.

      Obama owes the media, and you'll bet they'll collect.

      Some problems with your storyline. First, remember the months the media spent wringing their hands over Rev. Wright, then google John Hagee. Then there's the fact that John McCain was an incompetent flip flopping machine throughout the campaign.

      The media only loved Obama until the moment he passed Clinton in the primaries.

    48. Re:Don't bet on it by OECD · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah. My GF was an Edwards fan at that point. I had an earful of that. I have a vague recollection that they (The MSM) would only name the top four-ish candidates. Not sure if that accounts for the Edwards disappearance.

      --
      One man's -1 Flamebait is another man's +5 Funny.
  2. ill believe it when i see it by FudRucker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    meet the new boss, same as the old boss...

    --
    Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
    1. Re:ill believe it when i see it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny
      Come now. If you're going to be "same as the old boss"ing the Obama administration, you can do better:

      The more things change, the more they stay the same!

    2. Re:ill believe it when i see it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I disagree with the premise, but agree with the implication. How am I supposed to moderate this comment?

    3. Re:ill believe it when i see it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +/- 1, I'm gonna have a stiff drink.

    4. Re:ill believe it when i see it by fm6 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Cynical fatalism sure does make life easier. Not only does it justify your self-absorbed lifestyle, it allows you to have an opinion on every issue without the nasty bother of reading or thinking!

    5. Re:ill believe it when i see it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      meet the new boss, same as the old boss...

      Thank you for using these lyrics. The bill for the copyright licensing bills are in the mail.

    6. Re:ill believe it when i see it by lorenlal · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ..it allows you to have an opinion on every issue without the nasty bother of reading or thinking!

      Excuse me... This is Slashdot. We barely read the summaries before hitting the comments. I doubt most of us read outside of that. Unless it has something to do with source code.

    7. Re:ill believe it when i see it by The+Master+Control+P · · Score: 1

      "Cynicism is a sorry kind of wisdom" -- Barack Obama

    8. Re:ill believe it when i see it by gringer · · Score: 1

      You are supposed to moderate on the insight, thought, or humor in the comment, rather than whether or not you agree with the comment.

      --
      Ask me about repetitive DNA
    9. Re:ill believe it when i see it by cthulu_mt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Diogenes disagrees!

      --
      Virginia is for lovers. EVE is for griefers.
    10. Re:ill believe it when i see it by Gilmoure · · Score: 2, Funny

      Screw source code. I just want to read the executable.

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    11. Re:ill believe it when i see it by operagost · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't garner wisdom from the same guy who guaranteed unemployment wouldn't exceed 8% (now over 10%) and that GM and Chrysler would be saved from bankruptcy (now sorta-bankrupt, except instead of a legal bankruptcy they were given away to the unions) if we JUST PASSED THE STIMULUS BILL RIGHT AWAY!

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    12. Re:ill believe it when i see it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      -1 Humorless

    13. Re:ill believe it when i see it by fm6 · · Score: 1

      Right, because he's the only politician that ever made an overoptimistic prediction. Any comments about his choice of condiments?

      Conservatives have every right to criticize Obama. No, they have a duty — it's the job of the people out of power to keep the people in power honest. But can you please stop being so lazy and criticizing him for trivial stuff that NOBODY GIVES A SHIT ABOUT? I realize that's requires reading and thinking, which is hard work. But hey, Freedom isn't Free(tm).

    14. Re:ill believe it when i see it by AP31R0N · · Score: 1

      Welcome to my sigquote collection. Well said!

      http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-572077907195969915

      --
      Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
  3. Legitimate? by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 3, Insightful

    from the media conglomerates (who, after all, have a very legitimate point of view â" even if not the only point of view)

    It the MPAA/RIAA have a legitimate point of view, then I can barely comprehend what illegitimate is.

    They have paid for legislation and administration policy. To want your paid-for laws to be enforced is not a "legitimate point of view".

    1. Re:Legitimate? by schon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It the MPAA/RIAA have a legitimate point of view, then I can barely comprehend what illegitimate is.

      My thoughts exactly. I have no idea how this guy thinks that "we should be able to rape the Public Domain, but nothing we have can ever enter into it, and nobody has any fair use rights" could possibly be considered "legitimate".

    2. Re:Legitimate? by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It is a legitimate point of view from a political science point of view: they have their desire, which is essentially to be able to make money from each copy of whatever they made, and have complete control over it. Others (especially around here) have the desire to be able to take their creations and use it any way they want, without paying them at all. Both are legitimate, real desires.

      Politics isn't about deciding who is right and who is wrong, it is about finding a compromise, or workable solution between two conflicting parties. In this case, the compromise is likely to be reduced copyright durations, and expanded fair use. Downloading music for free, as a lot of people want, is not likely to ever be legalized. The RIAA will not disappear until artists stop using their services, which may happen one day.

      --
      Qxe4
    3. Re:Legitimate? by maxume · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It comes down to how you define legitimate. If laws are for sale, shouldn't the people buying them expect that they will be enforced?

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    4. Re:Legitimate? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Political science is illegimate "science", ergo...

    5. Re:Legitimate? by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

      It the MPAA/RIAA have a legitimate point of view, then I can barely comprehend what illegitimate is.

      One can hope that we'll continue to keep the pressure on until Federal policies begin to align with something approaching a workable consensus. Faint hope perhaps, but it keeps me going.

      There has to be some plateau when a balance can be struck where we can abjure both the trading of works that aren't ours to trade, and the egregious, obscene litigation history of the RIAA with their $1.9M judgement against a poor, naiive mother who walked into an open candy store.

      A new business model has to arise from the wreckage of this one, and a new set of lessons for the courts has to replace the rollover we've witnessed to date. It has to happen.

      But until it does, the only hope we have for an ultimately equitable model is to keep the vociferous debate going. We have to keep the pressure up.

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    6. Re:Legitimate? by bertoelcon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Politics isn't about deciding who is right and who is wrong, it is about finding a compromise, or workable solution between two conflicting parties. In this case, the compromise is likely to be reduced copyright durations, and expanded fair use. Downloading music for free, as a lot of people want, is not likely to ever be legalized. The RIAA will not disappear until artists stop using their services, which may happen one day.

      Compromises only work if both sides have equal say, and no one is allowed to bribe the mediator.

      --
      Anything can be found funny, from a certain point of view.
    7. Re:Legitimate? by japhering · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It the MPAA/RIAA have a legitimate point of view, then I can barely comprehend what illegitimate is.

      My thoughts exactly. I have no idea how this guy thinks that "we should be able to rape the Public Domain, but nothing we have can ever enter into it, and nobody has any fair use rights" could possibly be considered "legitimate".
      --

      As one of my graduate school professors was quite fond of saying... "If you are in the IP business, you are in the litigation business!"

      What this means is that any Intellectual Property has no protected value until it has been tried in court. Yes, the RIAA/MPAA can claim any value they want ($15 for a music CD, $25 for a BlueRay disk) and people will pay for it. However, until they take someone to court or someone takes them to court the IP has NO value.

      Any one remember a few years back when just about ever album was comming out with some form of DRM on it.... Anyone also remember that Phillips, the holder of the IP on Compact Disks.. took the record companies to court to force them to remove the compact disk label off all the albums that had DRM as DRM made the disks unplayable on large numbers of certified compatible compact disk players?

      That's a case where Phillips the IP holder took the record companies to court because the record companies were infringing on Phillips IP.

    8. Re:Legitimate? by phantomfive · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As if money were the only form of power in a democracy.

      Hint: we are the government, we are the mediator. If you let the RIAA bribe the mediator, it is your own stupid fault (along with that of 200 million other citizens).

      --
      Qxe4
    9. Re:Legitimate? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't think it should be the role of politics to find a compromise between two positions, one of them being completely abusive and unreasonable and the other one being, well, rather common sense.

      So if you have a child abusing lobby and a parents association would it still make any sense to find a compromise between the two?

      Politics damn well have the responsibility to also make decisions about right and wrong, otherwise how could laws be made if it wasn't so? Laws are the essential way of saying this or that is right "in our society" at least. The current copyright laws, have failed to say what's right for a long time now. They only say what an abusive industry wants.

    10. Re:Legitimate? by bennomatic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Very good comment. One additional point to throw in about the RIAA's desires is that they want to be sure that all music has some cost (and therefore, value) associated with it. If all of a sudden, the best selling albums and singles become public domain, the record companies will have to work 10x as hard to compete against freely available music which is arguably of better quality than the tripe they're serving up.

      It reminds me of the scene in the Grapes of Wrath where poor, starving farm workers tried to take some imperfect (i.e. not good enough for market, but totally edible) fruits from a farm's dump and they called in the national guard. If they can eat my garbage for free, the thought was, why would they ever pay for the "market quality" stuff?

      So let's play this out a little bit. Let's say we drop the copyrights on everything over 17 years old. All of a sudden, everything older than Third Eye Blind is free. The majority of Metallica music. U2, Madonna, Pink Floyd, Paula Abdul... Jefferson Starship, Beatles, the list goes on. Anything recorded by Casals, most of Pavarotti's records... How many people would say, "I've got a lifetime of music to wade through that's free. Why would I buy this top-40 crap for even a dollar?"

      Unless, of course, they actually turn out some product that's better than Britney. I'm not saying that there's no good music these days, but I'm saying that most of the pop stuff they put out now would have a hard time competing against a practically infinite supply of free music.

      --
      The CB App. What's your 20?
    11. Re:Legitimate? by bennomatic · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Of course, the quote doesn't say that the laws are legitimate; only the perspective. It's perfectly fine for me to say, I want you to work for me for $0.02/hour, and it's legitimate for you to say, no, a fair wage is $30/hour for what your doing.

      Of course--and I think this is what you are getting at--when one side has the power to buy laws to enforce their desires over less-well-enfranchised parties, then the making of those laws should not be considered legitimate.

      --
      The CB App. What's your 20?
    12. Re:Legitimate? by Grimbleton · · Score: 1

      There's still the tweens market that would keep them afloat.

    13. Re:Legitimate? by phantomfive · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You bring up an interesting point, but laws are the way of codifying the will of the people, not always in a fair way. Sometimes one portion of the people enforces its will on another part. It's unfortunately not fair.

      Who is to say what is right and what is not right? God? Preachers? You? The presidents? Society? What happens if 95% of the people in a society decide that it's alright to abuse children? It's not nice to the children, but it would be accepted, regardless of the parents' association. In our case, in America, most of us agree it is not right to abuse children, and we have set up laws and institutions to protect them. This is not necessarily the case. What is common sense then, if not views that are held in common among most people?

      Politics is all about what different people want, and balancing different powers, groups, and desires.

      --
      Qxe4
    14. Re:Legitimate? by lorenlal · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As if money were the only form of power in a democracy.

      Hint: we are the government, we are the mediator. If you let the RIAA bribe the mediator, it is your own stupid fault (along with that of 200 million other citizens).

      Oh ho ho ho! Now THAT's something!

      If we elect someone thinking that they're "good and honest" folks, and they turn around and act like the typical asshat that we're much more familiar with, I'll point the blame at that asshat first. Now, if that asshat gets re-elected, I'm totally with you. The idiots who vote and proclaim "Thank you! May I have another!" would certainly be at fault in that case.

      Point is: When electing someone, we can only take our best guess and choose from those of us who decide to run for the public office. It's kinda like a lengthened interview. I've been tricked in interviews... But I learned from those mistakes (after cleaning them out the best I can), and I've done my best to get better. Likewise, I've been tricked by my elected officials. It happens. But, that's why we're supposed to pay attention and make sure we don't repeat those mistakes.

      This also (not coincidentally) happens to be a major reason I hate the political party setup in the US. People tend to get used to voting for one side or another... and they tend not to hold those they vote for accountable for the BS they pull. It's also why I beg and plead with people to vote on more than just an affiliation... But that's a battle I'm going to lose for a long time.

    15. Re:Legitimate? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      This also (not coincidentally) happens to be a major reason I hate the political party setup in the US. People tend to get used to voting for one side or another... and they tend not to hold those they vote for accountable for the BS they pull. It's also why I beg and plead with people to vote on more than just an affiliation... But that's a battle I'm going to lose for a long time.

      Agreed, I am with you on this one. People are getting smarter though. If you compare the typical political savvyness of a citizen now to that 50 years ago, it is much higher.

      And honestly, if it bothered me enough, I would do something to get out and educate people, but I am too lazy, so I take the blame partially on that one.

      --
      Qxe4
    16. Re:Legitimate? by maxume · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Right. People often complain that such and such a system is bankrupt and then propose as a solution a rule, within the system, that the system cannot be bankrupt. It is a hopeless pursuit.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    17. Re:Legitimate? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      So let's play this out a little bit. Let's say we drop the copyrights on everything over 17 years old. All of a sudden, everything older than Third Eye Blind is free. The majority of Metallica music. U2, Madonna, Pink Floyd, Paula Abdul... Jefferson Starship, Beatles, the list goes on. Anything recorded by Casals, most of Pavarotti's records... How many people would say, "I've got a lifetime of music to wade through that's free. Why would I buy this top-40 crap for even a dollar?"

      Congrats. You have just pointed out why the current setup for copyright durations is nothing but a farce. We have permanent copyright already. It's just not on the papers because the papers demand a time limit for it to be valid. We will continue to see ever increasing durations on copyright, especially in the US. It won't be "unlimited", so the Supreme Court won't strike it down as the farce it is since it has a deadline, but that deadline will always be pushed back such that it will NEVER come to pass. And to be honest, I'm positive that was the intention from the start. Why else would you specifically set up the law s that it can always be extended, any extentions are given to anything still in copyright at the time, and ABSOLUTELY NO ALLOWANCE FOR REDUCTION IN DURATION.

    18. Re:Legitimate? by EdIII · · Score: 4, Insightful

      have complete control over it

      I think that is the crux of the problem right there.

      IMO, reasonable people would interpret that to mean they have complete control over distribution, licensing, and profits derived from such activities from their copyrighted works. I have no problem with that. I BELIEVE in copyrights. Not as they exist now, but the idea of what a copyright is and provides, is beneficial to society. I think everything should be 20 years. Or 25, 17, whatever. Not 75 years, or the lifetime of anyone plus anything.

      The RIAA, Big Media, and *especially* SONY (rootkit), interpret that to mean complete control over how and when their customers enjoy their works. I myself think, and that most reasonable people, would think that is an unreasonable and unethical position to take.

      Does Tyson tell you how to cook your chicken? How to cut it? Does Shake-n-Bake mandate exactly 6 shakes? Does Toyota tell you that your Prius can only be driven in the Southwest U.S?

      Why do we put up with the idea that after, most importantly AFTER, we give our money to these companies that they get to control us in any way shape or form? That is not normal. That expectation is not realistic or even what a normal person has ever expected.

      What these companies are fighting so hard for is something we would have never agreed to in the first place, and is certainly not in society's best interest. Their purported* financial best interests, but not our society's, or freedom for that matter.

      * - That is not even certain. I don't believe that an instance of piracy equals a lost sale. I think if piracy stopped completely tomorrow that CD sales would rise marginally. A few percentage points. Not year over year multi-digit gains. The business models have to change. Like or not, music is a 99c world and albums just don't sell for 20$+ like they used to. They are panicking and desperate, if not suicidal. It reminds me when aluminum was worth more than gold, and then suddenly was worth less than 1c on the dollar. My concern is that they seem hell bent on destroying our freedoms, destroying copyrights, and basically making life a living hell till they finally die.

    19. Re:Legitimate? by fiendie · · Score: 1

      So let's play this out a little bit. Let's say we drop the copyrights on everything over 17 years old. All of a sudden, everything older than Third Eye Blind is free. The majority of Metallica music. U2, Madonna, Pink Floyd, Paula Abdul... Jefferson Starship, Beatles, the list goes on. Anything recorded by Casals, most of Pavarotti's records... How many people would say, "I've got a lifetime of music to wade through that's free. Why would I buy this top-40 crap for even a dollar?"
      Unless, of course, they actually turn out some product that's better than Britney. I'm not saying that there's no good music these days, but I'm saying that most of the pop stuff they put out now would have a hard time competing against a practically infinite supply of free music.

      I don't think that would be the case for a good chunk of listeners. Especially youth culture is all about identification and peer pressure. Therfore, I guess Britney and her ilk are not so much about music.
      Plus, it's totally uncool to listen to the same stuff as one's parents, however good it may be.
      I know I didn't start listening to older stuff before being well into my twens.

    20. Re:Legitimate? by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      How do you "let" the RIAA bribe the mediator? The citizens cannot interfere directly, they can only plead to the mediator or replace him in fixed intervals and neither option worked to prevent the RIAA from bribing. Should the citizens go in and use force to prevent the mediator from accepting the bribe? They can't just write laws, the mediator is the only one who can.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    21. Re:Legitimate? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Downloading music for free, as a lot of people want, is not likely to ever be legalized.

      Why the hell not?

      It's free (as in no cost and legal) in Canada. As long as you don't buy any CD-Rs, that is.

    22. Re:Legitimate? by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      I was digging my father's albums (60's rock and soul) by the time I was in high school ('81-'85). I think pretty much stopped listening to new groups that started up after '77. 'Course I was also trying to find a friend to play D&D with, back in late 70's. Only found one other guy who'd heard of it on a BBS I was connecting to with my Ti 99/4a.

      So yeah, the cool kids were probably over the Stones and Floyd by then.

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    23. Re:Legitimate? by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      The RIAA will not disappear until artists stop using their services, which may happen one day.

      I would put that day at about 90 years after the last artist stops using their services. If they don't get another extension by then.

  4. Can't resist: by Culture20 · · Score: 1

    Obama's Copyright Policies? All Copyright belongs to the Federal Govt. Next up, Mr. Conway Twitty!

  5. Obama and Copyright by Adrian+Lopez · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Barack Obama has decided that copyright issues are a matter of national security, and has appointed a number of former RIAA lawyers to various positions in his administration. I think it's pretty clear whose side Obama is on, and it does not bode well for the future of the Internet.

    Obama: Change you can believe in. It won't happen, but you sure can believe in it.

    --
    "In prison you just have to shut your eyes and take it. Here you have to shut your eyes and give it."
    1. Re:Obama and Copyright by maxume · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, lawyers are well known for not being in any way mercenary. Or something.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    2. Re:Obama and Copyright by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but the sheeple will never think he'd do some against his promises.

    3. Re:Obama and Copyright by QuantumG · · Score: 1, Funny

      Change you can believe in. It won't happen, but you sure can believe in it.

      That's what I call Christian Values.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    4. Re:Obama and Copyright by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly! Now lets vote him and the Congress OUT!!!

    5. Re:Obama and Copyright by Abcd1234 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Barack Obama has decided that copyright issues are a matter of national security [slashdot.org], and has appointed a number of former RIAA lawyers [wired.com] to various positions in his administration.

      Yes... god forbid teh ev1l goverment should hire people familiar with copyright law to work in the justice department...

      FYI: lawyers defend who they're paid to defend, and prosecute who they're paid to prosecute. That's their job. Just because they worked for the RIAA, doesn't mean they are, by default, shills for the media conglomerates.

    6. Re:Obama and Copyright by Mithyx · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Lawyers do the best job they can for who they work for, otherwise they're not good lawyers. Just because a lawyer defends a serial killer, that doesn't mean they believe that what the killer did was right. I'm not saying they won't side with the RIAA, just that their previous employers might not have as much to do with their position in the matter as some people think.

    7. Re:Obama and Copyright by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obama: Change you can believe in. It won't happen, but you sure can believe in it.

      Screw the people who believed in him? Yes, he can!

    8. Re:Obama and Copyright by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't bet on it. The fact is that lawyers do specialise. And the arguments of the lion to eat a lamb, are completely different to the arguments of the lamb not to be eaten by the lion.

    9. Re:Obama and Copyright by maxume · · Score: 1

      That's pretty much the definition of mercenary.

      I figured the 'or something' made it clear that I was being sarcastic (It isn't clear to me if you were expanding on my comment or answering it...if you were expanding then my reply is somewhat redundant).

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    10. Re:Obama and Copyright by Adrian+Lopez · · Score: 1

      In fact, lawyers have a legal responsibility to defend their client's interests to the best of their ability. I'm not concerned about Obama's appointees acting against the interests of the Obama administration. Instead, I am concerned about what Obama's picks say about the Obama administration's own goals.

      --
      "In prison you just have to shut your eyes and take it. Here you have to shut your eyes and give it."
    11. Re:Obama and Copyright by isBandGeek() · · Score: 1

      And you think these lawyers don't know the weaknesses in their own arguments?

    12. Re:Obama and Copyright by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Question, those working for the Obama Administration are not allowed to work on past lobbies/etc right? If thats right, could Obama be taking these people off the market for RIAA/ MPAA... so they cant be used by those bastards. Someone please tell me.

  6. Government moves slow by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Government moves slow, which is probably a good thing.

    In the case of copyright, it has only been in the past few years that normal people have even cared about copyright. Up until now, it's mainly been an issue between creators, authors, musicians, performers, and publishers. And they've had some pretty riotous fights about it. For the average citizen, who feels it's pretty good for a musician or author to be compensated for his work, and it seemed reasonable to allow longer copyrights. Better the artist (or his chosen publisher) be compensated for their work, rather than some random publisher who had nothing to do with it. In general people favor giving an artist control of their creations.

    In the last 20 years, it's become more of an issue because anyone can make copies of songs, and the average person can easily get the equipment to reuse the work and make something new and creative from it. For us who are on the edge of the technological wave, it is obvious that there are problems with copyright, and we have some ideas about what the solutions should be.

    The average person, on the other hand, has no idea what the issues are, hasn't really thought about them, and the government tends to be even slower than the average person. So it isn't that Obama (or Bush) is in the pocket of the RIAA, in fact, if you look at his campaign contributions, they are probably just a small portion.

    Ask your non-technical neighbors or family members what they think of copyright. They will probably think that it is a good thing, even if they pirate songs themselves. They just haven't thought of all the issues.

    --
    Qxe4
    1. Re:Government moves slow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I would go even further. Even as a CS undergrad at one of the top CS universities in the US, I still know very few people who even know what copyright is. Sure, they are vaguely aware that laws exist saying you shouldn't copy music/movies and they have seen the FBI warnings on movies, but they have no idea what is legal or not. That is why there are tons of videos on YouTube with unlicensed music in the background or unlicensed photos: the vast majority of those people would probably be very surprised to learn they broke a law by using that music or those photos.

    2. Re:Government moves slow by QuantumG · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In general people favor giving an artist control of their creations.

      In general people are apathetic about a law that doesn't touch their lives.. until it does touch their lives.. and then they proclaim how completely unfair it is. In the case of copyright, they're right.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    3. Re:Government moves slow by phantomfive · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And that is ok with me. In general, laws should be decided in consideration of the people whose lives they DO touch; just as I have no particular say or interest in what laws are created in Ohio. If I ever move to Ohio, it will be a different story. Of course there are exceptions to this (for example, in the case of slavery it was probably a good idea to force the south to give up their slaves), but since for most of history copyright has mainly only affected artists and publishers, it is reasonable that for most of history they've had the greatest interest in how the laws are formed. But things are changing, and the laws will too; eventually.

      --
      Qxe4
    4. Re:Government moves slow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One thing I'd like to add here. The same way a person can get means to copy a piece of music, a person in the know-how can also record their own music (as in music they have composed/classical works which are in the public domain they have performed). The person in question then can go thru iTunes/Amazon MP3/Magnatue/Jamendo to post and have people get their content. Heck, they can even set up their own site as a channel of distribution, bypassing the need for a 3rd party. Notice here how a music studio is left out. Since distribution is digital, a record company is left out. No involvement on the money making = no profit. That is why I think the RIAA and the like are pushing too much to restrict digital distribution channels: so they can get a piece of the pie.

    5. Re:Government moves slow by hedwards · · Score: 2, Funny

      Copyright? Isn't that the result of using the right shift operator?

    6. Re:Government moves slow by maxume · · Score: 1

      Imagine if your institution were merely average.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    7. Re:Government moves slow by tepples · · Score: 1

      The same way a person can get means to copy a piece of music, a person in the know-how can also record their own music (as in music they have composed

      If I compose a piece of music, how can I determine whether this piece of music is original?

      The person in question then can go thru iTunes/Amazon MP3/Magnatue/Jamendo to post and have people get their content.

      And use what to promote it to listeners in vehicles? The major labels have FM radio.

    8. Re:Government moves slow by bennomatic · · Score: 1

      If I compose a piece of music, how can I determine whether this piece of music is original?

      Don't use the same three chords the spin doctors did.

      And use what to promote it to listeners in vehicles? The major labels have FM radio.

      Ah! Now I understand why it took Apple so long to add an FM radio to the iPod. They wanted to maximize the promotional clout of iTMS.

      --
      The CB App. What's your 20?
    9. Re:Government moves slow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (I'm the GP.) That terrifies me. I hear on /. about colleges where none of the CS majors (nor anyone else) have even heard of Linux or free software.

    10. Re:Government moves slow by tepples · · Score: 1

      Don't use the same three chords the spin doctors did.

      I don't follow what you're saying. "Two Princes" by Spin Doctors uses D, B minor, A, and G. I just want to know how to avoid losing a lawsuit.

    11. Re:Government moves slow by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      Yep, you can certainly count me as one of those idiots then. I certainly had no idea that the doctrine of "Fair Use" had been abolished, and that the two minutes home video clip of a baby dancing to the low-quality rendering of a commercial song would constitute copyright infringement.

    12. Re:Government moves slow by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      It's not really unfair so much as unjust in its judgements.

      If I get busted for having illegal music on my hard drive I think it would be fair to get charged 2x the going rate for the music or maybe $300, whichever is lower like a speeding ticket. "You got me!"

      If I park my car an extra 30 minutes on the street after the meter expires I think it's fair that I get charged a $20 ticket.

      I have no problem with the idea of it being illegal and punishable. What I do have a problem with is $1.9m settlements for 24 songs. To me that's not really the job of copyright law. And while I do think there are situations where $80k per violation is perhaps even too little for copyright infringement. In the case of citizens using it for personal use that's more like in the realm of the $30-$200 fine. We don't even view petty theft as warranting more than a $400 fine. And that's even worse than a less tangible crime like parking too long or speeding.

    13. Re:Government moves slow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Copyright IS a good thing. For a limited number of years, 10 or 15 or so. But for 70 years and more it is not even ridiculous; it is dangerous.

    14. Re:Government moves slow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am not trying to troll or spread FUD. Perhaps I misunderstand fair use. Having just reread the Wikipedia section on fair use in the US, I fail to see how that would be fair use. That is using an entire work (admittedly in slightly degraded quality -- but probably no more than an MP3 ripped without setting the quality settings up) with no intention of parody for a commercial work (YouTube has ads). Additionally, it does decrease the value of the original work because it is trivial to rip the music out of a YouTube video (assuming it is high enough quality to put in a music library, I suppose).

      Please explain if you disagree.

    15. Re:Government moves slow by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Government moves slow, which is probably a good thing.

      A rather stupid one sized fits all philosophy - just ask anyone from New Orleans.

    16. Re:Government moves slow by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Um.....do you have anything productive to say, or are you just whining?

      --
      Qxe4
    17. Re:Government moves slow by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Um.....do you have anything productive to say

      I just did. Can you read?

      or are you just whining?

      Are you just stupid? Do you not know what happened to New Orleans in 2005?

    18. Re:Government moves slow by phantomfive · · Score: 1
      Your post points out the obvious fact that in some cases, indeed the government does move too slow. A fact that, while true, realistically doesn't relate to the topic at hand except tangentially, nor does it particularly add anything of interest, because of its obviousness. You for some reason ignored or didn't understand the context of the original post, which was how government is slow to change regulation to match changing trends and new technologies. On the surface, New Orleans hardly fits into that category, since levee construction is not new technology, and it seemed to be more of an administrative/planning failure (or corruption) than a regulatory issue.

      Now, if you had somehow shown some subtle connection between the two, or had drawn some interesting distinction about when government moving slow is ok and when it is not, or had tried to show that it is never ok for government to move slow, or if you had even made any attempt at all to show that you understood the point of the original post, it would have been significantly more interesting. But you did none of those things.

      Are you just stupid? Do you not know what happened to New Orleans in 2005?

      Given your apparent inability to understand context and seeming incapacity to contribute meaningfully to a conversation, I think you are a more likely candidate for the stupid category. You should work on that. It would make you a lot more interesting.

      --
      Qxe4
  7. Political thought by QuantumG · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Gee, how can I piss off a bunch of rich and powerful people.. I know, I'll take away their special rights to a government granted monopoly, that sounds like a great idea!"

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
    1. Re:Political thought by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

      Actually, that's the way European political systems seem, or at least that's the way they seem to work to a timid Yankee observer like myself.

      it seems like the European and UK systems work where they try to placate the rich and the poor equally(and pissing off both equally too) knowing both are possible registered voters, rather than trying to suck up to the obscenely rich in cynical attempts to pull off political victories during election seasons using smarmy scummy advertising.

      I'm sure hoping Obama's listening.

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    2. Re:Political thought by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      Do the rich in Europe run tv spots to encourage voters to turn out and support candidates that back their pet cause? Does that mean the opposing candidate has to run a campaign to keep voters focused on the real issues, or just to explain the legitimate reasons why he/she may not be backing the pet cause? Because that's the kinda shit that happens in the US.. and is why politics is so monetized there.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
  8. Re:Afro-American Racism Against Whites and Asians by Gruff1002 · · Score: 1

    This about says it all in response to this persons rant.

    "Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is part of a phrase attributed to Benjamin Disraeli and popularised in the United States by Mark Twain: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." The statement refers to the persuasive power of numbers, the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments, and the tendency of people to disparage statistics that do not support their positions.

  9. Out come the assholes and karma whores by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    This is insightful? It's the same old crap that gets intoned every time the subject of Obama comes up.

    And anyone who points it out gets modded down.

    I guess I'll wait until the next article, post "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss" and get modded up to +5, Original and Witty.

    1. Re:Out come the assholes and karma whores by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or, for old time's sake, just post "Bush Lied". I'm sure that will get you an automatic 5:Insightful.

  10. It means nothing without Public Domain by erroneus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    When was the last time anything fell into the public domain? That has to change before I will sit up and take notice of any positive changes. These days, if they didn't make their money in the first five years, any given work is nearly dead -- especially movies. Copyright terms need to be seriously shortened by default and let there be some sort of copyright appeals process if it can be shown that they didn't get adequate return on investment.

    1. Re:It means nothing without Public Domain by Darkness404 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And games, and things with regional lockout. Today, there is no reason with the rise of digital distribution that there shouldn't be 20 year copyright along with a clause that states that if the item is no longer available new, in your region for 3 years you have a right to download it for non-profit, non-commercial use. You only need to look at all the old video games that have passed into obscurity to notice the need for such laws, without the illegal dumping of ROMs a vast majority of early gaming would be completely lost forever.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    2. Re:It means nothing without Public Domain by maxume · · Score: 1

      Plenty of people are willing to repudiate copyright. Is that close enough?

      If so, the answer is probably something like 5 minutes ago.

      If not, go to weather.gov and look for some data that was generated by a government employee.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    3. Re:It means nothing without Public Domain by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > These days, if they didn't make their money in the first five years, any given work is nearly dead -- especially movies.

      No... not really. This was the feeling during the studio system of Hollywood. It's not really true today. There are many titles (and not all ones you'd think of like Star Wars) that are making money years and years down the road. As a matter of fact, if I remember by college film studies correctly... there are very few titles that done *eventually* make their money back. In the U.S. we tend to focus on domestic money made at the theaters, but movies are sold to Broadcast TV, Cable TV, International markets of all sorts, Airlines, Cruise Ships, DVD sales, online sales... the list goes on and on. Also.. don't forget all the movies that finally broke even when they ended up on TV shows like MST3k! All this goes on for years and years and years.

      I think copyright has to accommodate this somewhat. However I agree with the parent's point... they are not falling into Public Domain at all these days and that should be corrected.

    4. Re:It means nothing without Public Domain by japhering · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think copyright has to accommodate this somewhat. However I agree with the parent's point... they are not falling into Public Domain at all these days and that should be corrected.

      I would say the system is definitely broken, when copyright for a work belonging to an individual is 75 years after death and belonging to a corporation is 100 years.

      Next time you are in Europe look at how many Disney characters are used all over the place.. Disney messed up and didn't get copyright extended in Europe before Mickey and Minnie hit 50 years and if I recall correctly, a few other characters escaped into the public domain before the EU changed the copyright to match the US limits.

      Personal opinion, NO copyright should extend past the death of the artist.

    5. Re:It means nothing without Public Domain by Grimbleton · · Score: 1

      Seconded. Do I hear a third?

    6. Re:It means nothing without Public Domain by Parallax48 · · Score: 1

      That could be financial ruin for a company built around one artist's output. Say I create art and sell it. If I have a gallery that sells my art, the day that I die the gallery is financially in jeopardy. Maybe a 6 month grace period would suffice.

      Which artist counts when a creation is a collaborative effort (i.e the LOTR movie)? Death of every single participant?

    7. Re:It means nothing without Public Domain by japhering · · Score: 1

      Which artist counts when a creation is a collaborative effort (i.e the LOTR movie)? Death of every single participant?

      Typically, the director is the one with the copyright which he in turn assigns to the movie studio. So since the actors are either paid scale or have a negotiated payment rate that doesn't involve a copyright, it seems logical to place a movie into the public domain upon the death of the director.

    8. Re:It means nothing without Public Domain by GameboyRMH · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'd third you, but to give a fair chance to any companies that suffer an unfortunate sudden artist death, I'd say that copyrights should have to be renewed every 5 years or so and can't be renewed if the original artist is dead. I think that's a very fair compromise - any works in progess can still benefit from the copyright (giving an incentive for the work to be released rather than cutting the loss and abandoning the work) and the work won't be held hostage for any really significant amount of time after the artist dies. A win-win IMO.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    9. Re:It means nothing without Public Domain by japhering · · Score: 1

      That could be financial ruin for a company built around one artist's output. Say I create art and sell it. If I have a gallery that sells my art, the day that I die the gallery is financially in jeopardy. Maybe a 6 month grace period would suffice.

      A small grace period, which would require a super majority of congress to change would be acceptable, but no more than 18 to 24 months.

    10. Re:It means nothing without Public Domain by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree with one exception. I think copyright should be a fixed term, not relative to a person's death. I think we should just promise them a fixed period of protection, and if it goes past their death, and ends up paying into their kids pockets, then that's their business.

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    11. Re:It means nothing without Public Domain by Toonol · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I agree. I wouldn't mind something like a flat twenty years. Artist dies, it goes to their heirs, for the duration. I also wouldn't mind something like 10 years + an optional renewal, but the less complicated the better.

      I want to keep copyright, and I wouldn't want it to be extremely shortened... there really are some creative works that languish for several years before becoming hits. But if the duration was twenty years... hell, Pac-Man would be public domain now. Lord of the Rings. Indiana Jones. And that's ok... the creators of all those have certainly benefited. At some point they need to simply be recognized as part of our culture.

      I desperately have a project that I want to do based on Edgar Rice Burrough's Mars series. Unfortunately, the series falls on the cusp of copyright extension; the first five books are out of copyright, the remaining six... who knows? Maybe they never will be. Also the names of the three major characters are trademarked by Burrough's heirs... which, as far as I can tell, can potentially exclude any use of them in derivative works FOREVER.

    12. Re:It means nothing without Public Domain by johannesg · · Score: 1

      Next time you are in Europe look at how many Disney characters are used all over the place..

      Err... Pretty much none? Do you have a specific country in mind for this? Because it certainly isn't happening where I live...

      Besides, aren't the disney characters protected by trademark?

    13. Re:It means nothing without Public Domain by citizenr · · Score: 1

      That could be financial ruin for a company built around one artist's output. Say I create art and sell it. If I have a gallery that sells my art, the day that I die the gallery is financially in jeopardy. Maybe a 6 month grace period would suffice.

      We _the socienty_ dont give a flying fuck.

      Which artist counts when a creation is a collaborative effort (i.e the LOTR movie)? Death of every single participant?

      Doesnt matter, movies should have something like 5 years and thats it. Art should remain ART and not mass produced crap in the name of profits.

      --
      Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
    14. Re:It means nothing without Public Domain by MarionGropen · · Score: 2, Interesting

      When was the last time anything fell into the public domain?

      Yesterday -- all the works of anyone who died on June 21, 1939 became public domain then.

      --
      Marion Gropen
      consultant to small book publishers
    15. Re:It means nothing without Public Domain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yesterday -- all the works of anyone who died on June 21, 1939 became public domain then.

      Those were already public domain and have been for a very long time.

    16. Re:It means nothing without Public Domain by japhering · · Score: 1

      Err... Pretty much none? Do you have a specific country in mind for this? Because it certainly isn't happening where I live...

      Just realized how long ago that was.. last time I was in Germany, Austria and the Netherlands in 1994-95... Mickey and Minnie were hocking all sorts of non-disney stuff

  11. WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA???!?!?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't you know reading and thinking is for communist hippies??!?!?! Now be a good 'Mur'kin, and shut up and go back to watching Billy Graham!

    1. Re:WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA???!?!?! by Toonol · · Score: 1

      You probably imagine that you're fair-minded, and without prejudice, don't you? It'll be a shock when you realize the truth.

    2. Re:WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA???!?!?! by fm6 · · Score: 1

      Pff. Maybe nobody can rise above prejudice. But at least some of us try. As opposed to ranting talk show idiots who piss all the concept.

  12. On Slashdot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Bush Lied" will get you modded -1, Troll. But "OMG Teh Democrats Did It Too!" will get you +5, Insightful.

  13. Re:Republicans Racist Against Minorities by Grimbleton · · Score: 1

    Lincoln was a Republican.

  14. Mod Parent Up by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

    Cynical fatalism also makes it easier to dismiss your viewpoint when making decisions, since you're completely resigned to the fate of being dismissed.

    --
    You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
  15. Pawns in the political game by Lost+Found · · Score: 1

    I know there are lots of left-leaning people here on slashdot, and understand the moral calling they feel. But it pains me every time I see an issue like net neutrality come up and people are demanding that the politicians intervene and regulate. We beg the politicians to enslave us and to take power they shouldn't (and don't) legally have. In the end, everything we give them is abused. It's expansive government regulation that helps cartels like the RIAA to remain in operation. Instead of fostering economic development, unleashing creativity and all the other arguments tossed around in favor of the IP regime, it seems to be doing exactly the opposite. And in the realm of IP legislation, it seems like all that is happening worldwide is either (a) ground is being lost; or (b) valiant efforts are barely keeping nasty legislation at bay. Unfortunately, until we stop clamoring for the government to further intervene in the markets, things are probably going to get a lot worse before they get better. Those of you who support net neutrality legislation... watch out. If we do end up getting such a law, it will probably be the "evil" telcos that end up writing the rules and having the last laugh, all on our tax dime.

  16. Re:Republicans Racist Against Minorities by The+Master+Control+P · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That was before the Southern Strategy.

  17. Al Gore by Presto+Vivace · · Score: 1

    sits on the boards of both Apple and Google, it would be difficult to over estimate his influence within the Democratic party.

  18. Government only moves slow when governed by SuperKendall · · Score: 3, Informative

    Government moves slow, which is probably a good thing.

    We are used to government moving slow, because until now it's been regulated by two parties with different goals slowing each other down.

    When the Democrats were elected to control essentially two branches of government and neutralize the third, we removed all governing forces keeping government moving slow. Government is now free to grow unchecked, at any rate desired. That's how you got an almost order of magnitude increase in the federal deficit in the first month of a new president. That was of course before any of the other multi-trillion dollar projects come up and get added to the grand total.

    That was really the singular reason to vote for McCain to the exclusion of all others good and bad, but the independents who voted for Obama blew it when they could not grasp this fundamental concept (control of the house and senate was never really in question). Never let one party hold all the marbles, it's like crossing the streams...

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Government only moves slow when governed by Toonol · · Score: 1

      I'm not positive, but I anticipate a backlash against the Democrats in the 2010 elections for just this reason. I doubt it will be large enough to shift the balance, though. It almost seems like the Democrats are anticipating their period of ascendancy to be short, with the pace at which they are creating new laws, and reshaping our institutions and economy. I wish the Republicans had cut, trimmed, and scaled back as enthusiastically when they had total control... but they were too drunk on money and power, as well.

    2. Re:Government only moves slow when governed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cleaning out the house is equally important. Both parties do the same thing anyways and at least this provides a minor check on corruption.

      It simply astounds me how little anyone cares about the deficit; it is rarely mentioned in the popular media. I think it is absolutely shameful that Obama isn't even planning for a balanced budget within 2 terms. I don't care if it was the previous administrations fault and if it means Obama can't implement his policies. It is now his responsibility to fix it!

    3. Re:Government only moves slow when governed by rsborg · · Score: 1

      When the Democrats were elected to control essentially two branches of government and neutralize the third, we removed all governing forces keeping government moving slow. Government is now free to grow unchecked, at any rate desired. That's how you got an almost order of magnitude increase in the federal deficit in the first month of a new president. That was of course before any of the other multi-trillion dollar projects come up and get added to the grand total.

      Gee, I wonder if your arguement could be applied to the Republicans circa 2002. They ran up the budget, and spent a whole lot of money for war on credit... Oh, but IOKIYAR!

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
    4. Re:Government only moves slow when governed by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

      Cleaning out the house is equally important. Both parties do the same thing anyways and at least this provides a minor check on corruption.

      WTF. Are you insane, look at what is happening now. Multiple inspector generals fired because they looked at donors the wrong way. Multiple house and senate democrats with some major issues needing investigating (like special mortgage deals or spouses on corporate boards raking in money).

      THis is what happens when you let ANY ONE party take power. There is no "minor check on corruption". There is corruption, unfettered and unbounded and on scales that boggle the mind.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    5. Re:Government only moves slow when governed by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      That's how you got an almost order of magnitude increase in the federal deficit in the first month of a new president. That was of course before any of the other multi-trillion dollar projects come up and get added to the grand total.

      That was really the singular reason to vote for McCain to the exclusion of all others good and bad, but the independents who voted for Obama blew it when they could not grasp this fundamental concept (control of the house and senate was never really in question). Never let one party hold all the marbles, it's like crossing the streams...

      Wow, where were you teabaggers when Reagan invented the multi-trillion dollar debt and turned us from being the largest creditor nation into the largest debtor nation? Where were you teabaggers when George W. Bush was lying us into the Iraq Boondoogle? Where were the teabaggers when Bush pushed and signed TARP?

      And while you can argue about the danger of large deficits, to do so without mentioning WHY the Democrats are doing so (cleaning up the cesspool that Republicans left them) is just pure sophistry.

    6. Re:Government only moves slow when governed by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      It almost seems like the Democrats are anticipating their period of ascendancy to be short, with the pace at which they are creating new laws, and reshaping our institutions and economy.

      And on what planet is this happening? Because here on Earth the Democrats are fiddle farting around accomplishing jack and shit, and Jack left town. No action on repealing the industry written Bankruptcy Bill, no Wall Street regulation, no torture prosecutions, no health care reform, no increase in the minimum wage, watering down the stimulus that we need to reverse the 600,000 a month job loss rate, etc.

  19. Burning Down Open Source apps by Shadow-Copy · · Score: 0

    Narrowing down the scape of the net, for public freedom of programming, and for federal implantations is what this all means..

    You can thank spammers, malware, and spyware source stripping programmers..

    This has been on coming for 6 years now. The FCC has been backed up with copyright, exploit, software complaints, ect.. that have left the FCC to do nothing, but to turn to the government and implement bills of law for copyrighting programming more strictly. The FCC being under pressure has been only able to do so much, but since the general public has basically migrated online, and having over 78% of the world on the net; it was only a matter of time before the Law stood in place of minor regulations of program evaluating.

    What this means to the basic consumer is nothing, but to programmers and open source writers puts a new federal pressure onto them.

    The new Copyright implementations mean that if any programming source looks anything near other program source code, could put the average Joe programmer into a massive amount of trouble, Law cases, and Federal penalty. Where any large software provider (Microsoft, AOL, Activision), stays safe and secure with a new ability to push a panic button of complaint in the Court of Law, if they think some software of theirs is getting ripped off.

    Rich getting richer and keeping their money safe, by securing their software, is all what is happening.

  20. Re:Republicans Racist Against Minorities by tjstork · · Score: 2, Interesting

    That was before the Southern Strategy.

    The flipside of that, of course, is that, if, Abraham Lincoln was essentially a Democrat, then Franklin Delano Roosevelt was a Republican. The south was Roosevelt's power base. Ever wonder who the heck Carl Vinson was to get a carrier named after him? Why, he was Roosevelt's man in the Congress that rammed through a huge naval construction program just in time for World War II. Pretty much saved the USA from getting torched by Japan, but, he was pretty much a racist redneck.

    --
    This is my sig.
  21. Equality by SirWraith · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Having traded in a Tech major for Music, it's good to see that I haven't actually lost anything in potential employability.

    1. Re:Equality by SirWraith · · Score: 1

      And I just realized that this went into the wrong story. MOVE ALONG... nothing to see here.

  22. Do 95% want to abuse children? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No.

    You can find species in the animal kingdom where infanticide is common, though.

    And they haven't made laws banning it.

    But that was a frigging terrible analogy.

    How about wondering if 30% of the people think nothing of breaking the law on copyright explicitly, and 60% more do so occasionally (i.e. play music at a party, copy a CD (in the UK, this is illegal even for your car/iPod/whatever), watch a screener from someone else, etc), why should the 10% say nay?

    If you think they should, then you think, should 5% want to abuse children, they SHOULD be allowed to abuse children. After all, the smaller your majority, the more correct your viewpoint seems to be your mantra...

    And remember, copyright is abusing the 90% of humanity, so that's worse than abusing the 15% of humanity that is underage...

  23. The RIAA think it the case by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why else would they complain about the theoretical loss of a sale on P2P yet hide their back catalogue for years (years that the copyright lasts but isn't exercised), denying the copyright holder and artists sales in the potential hundreds of thousands.

    That's why they want to keep you renting. They can move more of their new catalogue by forcing those who want the old stuff to have no choice. Even if most of them don't buy the new stuff, some will.

    And the old stuff is already paid for, so this nets them NO money.

    Worse, with old classics (there's a reason why they're called classics) you may have some weird kids buying that instead of the new stuff! That ruins their market, since they have to supply two lines to the consumer (they are NEVER the customer), rather than just one.

  24. Re:Criticism of Obama is Racist by KDR_11k · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I thought under Bush dissent was the highest form of terrorism? You know, "with us or against us" and all that?

    --
    Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  25. Why kill the golden goose? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you kill an artist they cannot produce any new work. This is not a good thing.

    If you kill an artist, you cannot get copyright on the work either, so you've killed to give EVERY SINGLE POSSIBLE COMPETITOR the exact same benefits you take for yourself but they get the advantage they haven't committed a criminal act. How nice of you.

    And why would someone PAY to get this deed done? It's not like you'll be able to undercut the competition because they'll have the same costs as you, but no hitman to pay off.

  26. same way they always does... by ynohoo · · Score: 1

    1) accept bribe^H^H^H^H^H donation from corporate backers
    2) do their bidding
    3) profit!

    Until political funding can be prised from the grip of the oligarcy of the rich, that's how it will stay. What's sad is it has been that way so long, hardly anybody perceives it as immoral anymore.

  27. Of course it can by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Gee, I wonder if your arguement could be applied to the Republicans circa 2002.

    Yes, which is why the Democrats were given power the next election cycle.

    Only as bad as Republicans were, Democrats are 10x worse.

    That's why you can't let either of them have control of everything. The hell of it is that at this rate the Democrats are going to hand the whole bag of marbles over to the Republicans and while as stated it's not as bad, it's still much worse than when there is a mix.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  28. Lifetime makes sense to me by Sum0 · · Score: 1

    What is the rational for stripping rights of ownership from the creator during his or her lifetime? If I build a boat when I'm 25 you aren't entitled to take it away from me when I turn 45. Why is a book or a song any different? I do agree that media should become public domain upon death (or, say, 5 years after death)...copyright shouldn't be heritable in the same way a car or wad of money is. People deserve to be compensated for their time.

  29. Re:Republicans Racist Against Minorities by Uberbah · · Score: 1

    then Franklin Delano Roosevelt was a Republican

    So stork, did you forget about the New Deal, or did you forget to put your wingnut pants on this morning? Inquiring minds would like to know...

  30. some problems with that sophistry, starting with.. by Uberbah · · Score: 1

    Pri. Mary.

    As in the drawn out Democratic primary last year, which went on months after McCain had the Republican nomination sewn up. Of course the press would have talked about Obama more than McCain last year.

    Two other parts you conveniently fail to mention: the two months of non-stop concern trolling Obama faced over Rev. Wright and "white working class voters", and how the press bent over backwards to ignore McCain's incompetence and flip flopping.

    McCain, with all his supposed foreign policy experience, confused Iraqi Shiites and Sunnis six times, and kept (falsely) claiming that Shiite Iran was training Sunni Al Queda agents. The media would have torn Obama half a dozen new assholes over this, but CBS went so far as to edit the video to cover up for McCain.

    And what if Obama had mistakenly called Petraus the chair of the joint chiefs. Opps, new asshole. Or if he talked about the Iraq-Afghanistan border. Whoops, another asshole. Or if Obama had sought the endorsement of John Hagee, who had previously called the Catholic Church "the great whore", a "false belief system", an "apostate church", and that it would be "devoured by the anti-Christ".

    Anyone who whines that Obama recieved favorable media coverage next to McCain needs to to drink a nice, warm cup of STFU.

  31. Sexual Retard Alert by SuperKendall · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Wow, where were you teabaggers

    Since all you can do is throw sexual insults around I guess you didn't really want a response, you just wanted to cry about GWB some more. Wah Wah Wah! Just another Big Liberal Baby who says if GWB did it, anyone else has a right to!

    Whatever. I didn't like his spending either and I was complaining about it then. But it doesn't mean Obama has not increased the spending by almost an order of magnitude, and that we should not complain about it now. It doesn't mean that as spending increases, you expect more people to complain and that's what we are seeing. Better to keep quiet? I don't think so. Enjoy your religious fervor while it lasts, until you wake up.

    You are so blind, if you actually went to a Tea Party you'd see it's people from all over the spectrum, not just Republicans as your narrow minded fantasy world dictates. They are they but so are smarter liberals, and of course Libertarians - the group that accidentally voted Obama into power temporarily forgetting what happens when you let any ONE party have control of everything.

    Enjoy your cry, baby.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  32. just how stupid are you, really? by Uberbah · · Score: 1

    WTF does teabagging have to do with "sexual insults"? Just what were you guys doing at your rally?

    But it doesn't mean Obama has not increased the spending by almost an order of magnitude

    No, he hasn't. But thanks for trying.

    I guess you didn't really want a response, you just wanted to cry about GWB some more. Wah Wah Wah! Just another Big Liberal Baby who says if GWB did it, anyone else has a right to! Whatever. I didn't like his spending either and I was complaining about it then. But it doesn't mean Obama has not increased the spending by almost an order of magnitude

    Translation: IOKIYARTIYAD (it's okay if you're a republican, treason if you're a democrat).

    And you can certainly argue over the merits of Obama's fiscal policies. What you cannot argue is that those policies aren't a direct result of the mess that Bush and the Republicans created in the first place.

    It doesn't mean that as spending increases

    We're increasing spending to try and avoid another Great Depression as the economy loses half a million jobs a month.

    You are so blind, if you actually went to a Tea Party you'd see it's people from all over the spectrum, not just Republicans as your narrow minded fantasy world dictates. They are they but so are smarter liberals, and of course Libertarians - the group that accidentally voted Obama into power temporarily forgetting what happens when you let any ONE party have control of everything.

    Bwhahaahaha. You mean the people so damned dumb that they went out and protested the president who gave them the largest tax cut in their lives, when they ignored the Republicans who created the mess in the first place?

  33. kal gold by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do you hear about the game needing use Entropiauniverse ped to play, and you can also borrow Entropia Universe Gold? But you also can Buy Entropia Universe Gold, or you will lose the choice if you do not have Entropia Universe Money. If you get cheap Entropiauniverse ped, you can continue this game.
    Do you hear about the game needing use kal geons to play, and you can also borrow kal gold? But also you can buy kal online geons, or you will lose the choice if you do not have kal online gold. If you get kalonline Geons, you can continue this game.