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SSN Required To Buy Palm Pre
UltraOne writes "Sprint requires your Social Security number in order to run a credit check before they will allow you to open an account, according to a store manager in Silver Spring, MD. Since Sprint is the exclusive carrier for the Palm Pre, if you are not willing to provide an SSN, you can't buy this product.
I believe a full credit check for this level of consumer purchase is a clear example of overkill. I have supplied an SSN when buying a house and renting an apartment, but never for any other consumer purchase. I have purchased my cars with cash so far, so I don't have first-hand experience, but a car loan also seems to be an appropriate place to require an SSN for a credit check. At the very least, Sprint should have an alternative for people who don't want to give out their SSN. I also found the entire experience a powerful argument against exclusive license agreements." Read below for details of this reader's experience.
I was eager to purchase the Palm Pre to replace my aging Zire 72s, and also consolidate my PDA and mobile phone into a single device. Since reviews have generally been positive, I headed to my local Sprint store (8501 Fenton Street, Silver Spring, MD). My current mobile carrier is Verizon, so I also needed to set up service with Sprint.
The store had the Pre in stock, and the sale proceeded smoothly until the sales associate asked me for my Social Security number. He had already verified my identity with a driver's license. When I asked why the SSN was needed, he said it was to run a credit check. I offered a credit card instead, but he said that the SSN was required.
I asked to speak to the manager, who was a pleasant young woman, but not able to resolve the problem. She confirmed that Sprint required the SSN to run a credit check (through a credit bureau) before opening an account. I told her that I understood Sprint had an interest in making sure that I could pay for the service (I was planning to get the $70/month Everything Data 450 plan), but that I was concerned about identity theft and privacy. I offered several other options, including a check on my credit card limit, which is an order of magnitude greater than the combined price of the phone and two-year contract; placing the maximum deposit that Sprint requires from people with poor credit ($500); or pre-paying the entire two-year plan on the spot. None of these was acceptable options, so Sprint lost the sale.
I was eager to purchase the Palm Pre to replace my aging Zire 72s, and also consolidate my PDA and mobile phone into a single device. Since reviews have generally been positive, I headed to my local Sprint store (8501 Fenton Street, Silver Spring, MD). My current mobile carrier is Verizon, so I also needed to set up service with Sprint.
The store had the Pre in stock, and the sale proceeded smoothly until the sales associate asked me for my Social Security number. He had already verified my identity with a driver's license. When I asked why the SSN was needed, he said it was to run a credit check. I offered a credit card instead, but he said that the SSN was required.
I asked to speak to the manager, who was a pleasant young woman, but not able to resolve the problem. She confirmed that Sprint required the SSN to run a credit check (through a credit bureau) before opening an account. I told her that I understood Sprint had an interest in making sure that I could pay for the service (I was planning to get the $70/month Everything Data 450 plan), but that I was concerned about identity theft and privacy. I offered several other options, including a check on my credit card limit, which is an order of magnitude greater than the combined price of the phone and two-year contract; placing the maximum deposit that Sprint requires from people with poor credit ($500); or pre-paying the entire two-year plan on the spot. None of these was acceptable options, so Sprint lost the sale.
Is there a cellphone provider that doesn't require you to provide your SSN before signing up for a contract?
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
a stolen valid credit card number and SSN costs pretty nothing.
if SSN requirement is to protect from stolen identity, it won't simply work.
The world belongs to those who get up early. - I'm far from being the king of Earth then
Eventually, one of these manufacturers (I'm looling at you Nokia) is going to break ranks and stop signing exclusive deals. They'll actually make phones with a price point that is reasonable (ya know, like the god damn iPhone is outright? how the hell has Apple become the low cost option you greedy bastards?) and sell directly to consumers. Retail really isn't that hard these days.. just provide a web only shop.. then cave a few years later and open emporiums.
How we know is more important than what we know.
On the other hand, perhaps mobile contracts require a SSN these days in order that you can more easily be monitored by law enforcement. In which case, you're SOL till they're on sale SIM-free.
It's pretty likely they'll be unlockable soon enough, and then you'll see them on ebay. You're obviously willing to pay a premium, so keep your eyes open.
What about running a credit check on yourself (costs ~$12) and presenting them a copy of it (maybe with the non-essential details redacted)? I mean, you get the same information they do, so what's the big idea? You can forge a printout, but you can't forge anything when you present it from a website (such as MyFICO). In fact, looking at the credit report I printed earlier, I can see that the SSN is redacted automatically and only the last 4 digits are shown. The rest of the information is public knowledge (current address), or innocuous (birth month and year). Giving out your SSN is total bullshit. Tinfoil hat or not, I go out of my way to avoid it.
Here in The Netherlands we already have had a few of those schemes, for example for the iPhone. Apple decided to go with T-Mobile, which may work fine in a few other countries (Germany, Austria), but over here I can only get reception when I'm on the 2nd floor of my house, or in the center of the city. While having to give out your SSN is not good, at least you have a working phone afterwards. Here we have to do the same (they photocopy your passport etc. as well) and then discover you can't use it... It was one of the reasons I did not buy an iPhone. Fortunately Belgium has outlawed exclusive contracts so I can go there and pick one up. Still, the attitude of "screw the customer, we get more money this way" does nothing for Apple's image and sealed my decision to keep my old phone for now.
Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
... well, at least, the ones I've had experience with.
I've been with T-Mobile (BlackBerry), AT&T (iPhone), and now Sprint (Pre), and they all asked for SSN when signing up. I don't think any place is going to let you into a contract with a subsidized phone without running a credit check (hence the SSN request), especially with the economy in the shape it is nowadays.
Did you have experience at another provider that didn't ask for an SSN when selling you a subsidized phone?
So the gist of this story is that the submitter doesn't understand finance?
A Palm Pre, or any other smartphone, costs a boat load and is subsidised by the carrier, but you need a contract to pay back the cost of the phone. In effect you are getting a $400 - $800 loan, depending on the device, the phone, and the contract/amount it is subsidised.
Now normal loans (not just "car loans" which are just one type of typically unsecured loan) usually have a credit check because it would be stupid to lend money to someone with a credit history that is all arrears and defaults. The poster probably doesn't realise that many, many people actually live life in debt, arrears and defaulting, and that a simple credit check can remove a lot of risk for the phone companies.
The obvious solution in this case is to allow someone to buy the Palm Pre at full price, and then supply them with a rolling contract (without subsidy cost factored in).
that everyone has a social security number. There is no requirement to have one. I love the stunned looks I get when I reply "I don't have one". I actually have one, but they don't need to know that either.
Welcome to America, land of the free*
*terms and conditions apply. See in store for details.
"A week in the lab saves an hour in the library"
I live in Argentina and in order to legally buy a cellphone you need (to have and) show your DNI (ID) and not only that, they also do 2 photocopies of it.(The store keeps one archived and the other goes to the government for investigation).
A lot of people are actually banned from buying equipment or new cell lines, so they often go to the black market to fulfill their needs.
Regardless of that, I only use my D.N.I. (National ID document) for voting and bank related paperwork. For general ID we got a CI (ID card) that according to the law we should carry it at all times). Oh, also we need a driving license if you are driving so there goes ID # 3.
When I tried to sign up for Verizon's wireless data service they wouldn't let me pass the credit check without a land line. I tried to tell them I didn't have a land line but they couldn't cope with that. Eventually the girl at the counter gave her sister's apartment number to the credit check guys (she didn't have a land line either). Got to love unbending bureaucracy.
There. Now go play some cool javascript games!
Since in this case (Palm pre) there are competitors from just about every other manufacturer, and it is a new product, it is not an issue.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
http://www.consumersunion.org/pub/core_financial_services/004801.html Apparently in some states, they should not be able to do this. Of course I may not understand the full extent of the law as it applies, but it seems to me that this is a consumer product and they are refusing to sell based off of a lack of social security num...
When all else fails, try.
It is not beyond the wit of the credit reference agencies to identify a US citizen from stuff other than the (it appears horribly abused) SSN?
I mean, if Experian can manage it in the UK (Name, Address, DOB is usually enough to identify you with the CRA,) why can't they do it in the US?
Or is this just simply laziness on the part of the CRAs?
http://harridanic.com
Where have YOU been? Didn't you know that over the past 20 years, the SSN has turned into the National ID Number? It doesn't matter that there was EXTREME concern that this might happen way back when the SSN was invented, it happened anyway.
Your right to privacy and anonymous purchasing disappeared a long time ago, so get used to it. "Credit checks" were just the first step. After that, it was manipulated for tax purposes. Then it spread to all kinds of interesting other "must have" situations or they refuse service. Even several doctor's offices I went to (and no, they weren't running a credit check nor was I on Medicare/Medicaid) HAD to have my SSN. PROSPECTIVE employers insist they HAVE to have the SSN. Movie rental places seem to think they HAVE to have your SSN. It took MANY YEARS of fighting before the citizens in my state FINALLY had the SSN removed as the mandatory driver's license number.
The package will be nice and complete once the Fed starts to force collection of fingerprints and DNA from everyone; it is coming... Most Americans don't have any understanding about privacy and security. "If you have nothing to hide" and all that, is the typical, brainless, response.
Don't buy it.
If you don't want to sell me something on sensible terms, I don't want to buy. Supply has to match demand at least at a nominal level, if it does not, no sale.
I dunno, when did we get so desperate to buy that we bent over backwards on whatever our possible business partner wants? I could see it for food or shelter, but for electronic gadgets? First, I lived without one so far, I will be able to survive without one. I have proof that I can (I lived so far). Second, my life depends on many things, but not on this one.
Bottom line: I will survive without you as my supplier. Will you survive without me as your customer?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Why can't they run the credit check, then discard the SSN? IF they need some number to update the credit history, then let the credit reporting agency give them some auto-generated account number at that time. There's lots of security benefits to doing that anyway.
I don't see how the SSN requirement has anything to do with carrier exclusivity agreements for phones. The Palm Pre is a TDMA phone that will only work on Sprint anyways. We aren't talking about a GSM phone that can be moved to other carriers. If palm wanted the Pre to work on other networks they would have to introduce additional models for the other protocols that are used in this country and/or the rest of the world.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
You may lament that they require your SS#, but it's the people like me who simply are willing to choke down any spoon fed drivel that big business shoves in their collective faces that make it hard for the people like you.
It is your fault that corporate lobbying is the driving force of your political system.
Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
This seems to be one of those things where sure, you can insist on your rights and you'll simply miss out on things. Want a Pre? Then submit. It's a free country, don't be a whiner, yadda yadda. You need a credit check to get a job. Hey, you know what? Someone who's been out of work a while in this economy might have bad credit! Well, we certainly can't let a filthy fucker like that get a head up!
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
From their support email:
"Hello,
Thank you for contacting Sprint regarding the Palm Pre handset. We really appreciate your interest in our new products.
You can certainly purchase the Palm Pre handset without providing the SSN Number. However, to use this handset you are required to add this handset on any existing Sprint account of your family member or friend (if any).
In case, you wish to open a new account on your account, then you need to provide us the Social Security Number as per the FCC guidelines.
Thank you again for contacting Sprint and have a nice day."
So they claim it's an FCC guidelines requirement. True?
PM
Try re-reading your excerpt in context. Those were options the poster offered to the sales rep, and it was the sales rep who wouldn't accept them.
I Am A Landlord. And I would never allow this. It's just too easy to play games with something someone printed off at home.
I have had applicants show up with credit report in hand before, and I have told them that I'd be happy to go over their report with them and see if they'll qualify before they hand over their SSN, but that I'll still have to run their credit using my service to verify the accuracy.
Some still apply, some don't. No skin off my back.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
You're talking about Capitalism, friend.
NO.
This is a government created and enforced monopoly (see FCC).
Try tossing a tower in your back yard to provide cell service to your neighborhood and see how quickly the FCC comes knocking.
If you can't enter the market without buying a license from the government then it's not really capitalism.
There are few scams that are basically money generating, its not about security for the customer.
* Larger cellular companies charge more per minute and plan on credit plan.
* Credit score companies make money selling this information, and they are not correct or regulated, and they differ between companies.
Basically the mantra, we have to charge higher interest rates on poor credit because they are poor risk, is false. If they could charge everyone the higher interest rates they would. Thus the reason for some states putting caps on loan fees, and the federal government capping on military (most are minimum wage earners) loans.
ATT can sell prepaid minutes at 35 cents a minute to poor credit holders at 10 cents to good credit. They would take every penny they can with the lie of "credit" and they are not the only company doing this, just one of the most visible.
Its basically a scam, but you have to think why they need your SSN. They need it for credit, so they can figure out how much to charge you. If any service has to figure out how much more they can charge you, its basically a scam. This is why the smaller local regional banks and credit unions would verify income to loan money. But the feds stepped in and told them they had to loan more money, and threatened with "lower bank credit scores" for not loaning money, and mark the banks rating down for now loaning enough money!
Credit scores, was used against the banks by the feds, and the banks for greed on mortgages. We all want a capital society, but false credit scores are so ingrained in our banking system that its hurting the poor, ripping off the middle class, and forcing large companies to turn away cash paying customers.
I wont even go into the whole unregulated federal reserve, which isn't federal but a privately owned bank, that was never audited...
Ever have a 5 year old ask you the why game? Try it yourself, why do you need to have use a SSN for a phone? Because we need to do a credit check. Why the credit check? So they can figure out what plan and interest rate to charge you. Why does a different interst rate, etc...
We don't tend to do that anymore, just accept and move on. Common sense is lacking, and if you question something, you must be a nut job. Why wouldnt you just accept and move on. Trouble maker or nut job.