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FBI Files a "Secret Justification" For Gag Order
An anonymous reader notes a story up at Ars on the FBI's continuing penchant for secrecy. "Clearly, the FBI isn't ready to give up its Bush-era secrecy addition just yet. ...in the case of Doe v. Holder, the FBI is carrying out a secret investigation using secret guidelines on what is and is not constitutional, and as part of that investigation they've compelled the secrecy of a service provider and are using a secret justification to argue that nobody's First Amendment rights are being violated."
This story just confuses me. Secret secret, secret secret secret. Secret.
the "FBI isn't ready to give up its Bush-era secrecy addition" bullshit? Quit blaming institutional behavior - in this case Holder - on Bush! If Obama wanted it to end it would end, right? SSDD!
Like government secrecy started and ended with Bush?
THL phish sticks
Somebody get that guy that has a face like an old catchers mit.
They will never learn!
Any life is made up of a single moment, the moment in which a man finds out, once and for all, who he is.
If a right is violated, and no one can talk about it,
then it must not have happened.
Lord Hewit: "... it is not merely of some importance but is of fundamental importance, that justice should not only be done, but should manifestly and undoubtedly be seen to be done."
Nothing much has happened to change that, apart from government organisations wanting more power, and the governed giving it to them. RIP Justice, it was kinda cool while you were around...
Simon.
Physicists get Hadrons!
This only goes to show what everyone else already knows. If you give the government powers, it will continue to use them no matter what party is in power at the time.
This isn't a partisan issue, except in that those who suggest that giving government more power through secret wiretaps, or special prison camps, or government bailouts or nationalized health care are making the problem worse. It doesn't matter that this is a "Bush-era" innovation as much as it was an innovation to begin with. We don't call Social Security a "Roosevelt-era" initiative (at least not anymore), it's just accepted that it is there. The same thing will happen with most powers granted to the government when it tries to "help us" by taking care of things for us. Eventually, unless this is overturned, it will go the same way, but wouldn't you think that the Obama Administration, as the Anti-Bush, wouldn't have been the best chance we had to get rid of these? Yet we are disappointed, but I think we shouldn't be surprised.
I don't consider the government to be "the enemy" like some people do, but I think that any entity which develops too much power and gains responsibility in too many areas is bound to become grossly inefficient at best, and quite possibly dangerous to liberty. We are abdicating our responsibilities and rights in order to have security, be it from terrorists or from being uninsured. And we all know what people get when they trade liberty for security: neither.
This is a secret message if it is not for you then you must not read it:
I repeat, DO NOT READ THIS unlisss this message is for secret operative "A" and you are said secret operative:
"BLORF"
{end of secret super-super-secret message}
... this post has something to do with secrecy?
....and the pink tights and boa? Its no fun to be freaky jiggy with the hoes and bros in the light of day, ya know! Can't a G-man enjoy a G-string without diluting the oppressive regime's value system with blatant hypocrisy? Whats the fun in that? Its like Halloween in the light with pants on - no tricks or treats...
We heard all about how law enforcement need only conform to FISA and obtain warrants from courts. The delays and possible compromises of security involved were pointed out they were handwaved. No compromise to security if they just conformed to the legal bureaucracy....
This investigation has the blessing of a court. Surprise! That's not good enough. No, no. The FBI must be stopped regardless.
And BTW the FBI reports to Obama now.
like this are starting to turn me off /. If the current administration wanted change it would change.
Si vis pacem, para bellum! For evil to succeed good men need only do nothing!
Chicken, chicken chicken chicken chicken. Chicken. Chicken. CHICKEN!!!
-Chicken
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
Bad rule these days. Tons of what the Bush administration did could have been attributed to stupidity (bad WMD information, exposing Valerie Plame, etc.) But in retrospect much of it seems to have been malice.
Just remember, Buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
the FBI isn't ready to give up its Bush-era secrecy addition just yet
"Bush-era secrecy" is what you will get if you vote for most any Democrat or Republican. Obama isn't any different.
Until someone we talk about it, everyone's rights have been violated, and not violated, at the same time.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Oh no! Not the dreaded double secret probation!
EvilCON - Made Famous by
The FBI is institutionally one of the least efficient and bureaucratic law enforcement agencies in the country.
While simultaneously being one of the best law enforcement agencies in the world. Seriously - who would you compare to them?
They're pumping billions into "modernization" efforts, but they still file their cases largely in paper format, use fax machines instead of e-mail, and "IT" is what they say happens in the men's room after 5pm.
No doubt you thought that was a cute quote and copy-pasted it. But alas, it's completely wrong. The recent Sentinel problems were an upgrade/modernization of the existing electronic case files. The Bureau is computerized. Not as sleekly or as efficiently as they'd like (which is why there's a big government contract working on it), but you make it sound like they're still thumbing through index cards. And yes, they use email.
In the 60s, the FBI was busy snapping pictures of protesters... and at the same time devoting forensic resources to finding out who (or rather, what) crapped on J. Edgar Hoover's front porch. You might have heard of him--he had a real temper, hated communists, and had a garter belt and fishnet fetish.
Please provide some proof that Hoover was a cross-dresser other than Anthony Summers' discredited book. That's the only source for this accusation.
As to hating communists - God bless the man.
Advice: on VPS providers
I always take 'discredited' from a conservative with a grain of salt.
They say after all that accusations that McCarthy was on a witch hunt were 'discredited' and that Factcheck.org is 'discredited.'
And then fail to mention how virtually all Heritage Foundation connected sources (FOX, Malkin, Coulter, Drudge, Limbaugh) are 'discredited' even more.
There wasn't unprecedented transparency, like any administration, which is why there is plenty of surveillance issues to talk about.
Politicians have already demonstrated abuse of his power to silence his opposition. They even abused their position during the campaign to silence opposition.
Speaking of abuses, do you all remember when that person "mishandled" national secrets of the highest security level and it was mysteriously swept aside? If that person had been prosecuted they would have likely been convicted and executed but it never happened because he was in the "good ol' boys" club.
Politicians are very disturbing to me and they need to be watched closely. If left to their on devices they will ruin this country.
Fixed that for you. I don't know why people keep trying to blame Democrats/Republicans. Look at the full political spectrum and you'll realize they are the same party and elections are just there to give us perceived democracy. The only purpose of keeping the 2 parties separate is to keep the people's focus on ridiculous squabbling. If you don't believe that then ask yourself why if "every vote counts," that voting for a third party is considered "wasting your vote."
There's nothing to see here. Move along.
You can no longer quote it. If you have a copy you must turn it in. The FBI will notify you of your rights when they think it is appropriate
"As to hating communists - God bless the man."
Wow, you really bought the commie crap hook line and sinker
Seriously, if someone believes communism is a valid form of government, you think they should be hunted, lied about and jailed?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
The term for that is "divide and conquer". It's an age-old device that works as well today as it did thousands of years ago. Unfortunately.
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
Well damn, if that's not a justification for better funding for the techies, I don't know what is.
the secrecy and similar government abuse because it was under a Republican Administration.
Look at all the crap Obama's group is pulling with various IG across the country. Shutting down investigations or attempting to intimidate. He has brought Chicago style politics with him.
I was never really afraid of Bush's abuse. We had the press constantly nipping on his heels. They and a adversarial Congress were are best line of defense against that Administration. Now with ABC fighting MSNBC for the rights to sleep in the White House who do we have? Rush? Sean? Oh, please.
I also cannot stand the comparisons some of those right wingers make with Obama to Carter. At least Carter stood up to his own party, damning himself in the process. Yet he did and he really did try to make it work. Fortunately Reagan was able to pull off of a lot of it, yet again we had a diligent press and adversarial Congress to keep him mostly honest. Same worked for Clinton post 94.
This guy is simply dangerous because he is getting a free pass from the expected watch dogs and worse he knows it and is using it.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
But shhhhh, it's a s33kr1t!
I'm totally non-partisan (anti-partisan actually, political parties are half of the problem in our country) and a centrist in my views, but I can't help being annoyed that this post has been tagged "Republican." What does any of this have to do with Republicans?
Jeremy http://alucinari.net
From the summary:
they've compelled the secrecy of a service provider
How exactly would they accomplish this? I can understand them demanding information, hopefully with warrant in hand. But if I'm a service provider, I'm not an agent, employee or contractor of the police. I've not taken any secrecy oaths. I'm a member of the public and if I come to know something, it is already by definition in the public domain. If they want to hire me as a spook, I'm available, but the price is high. Very high.
Have gnu, will travel.
California was going solidly for Obama anyway, so I didn't need to consider voting for him to stop McSame. So I was free to vote third-party; too bad the Libertarians have been taken over by quasi-Republicans, and their allegedly-Libertarian candidate doesn't really even believe in drug legalization (though at least he's strongly gung-ho about privacy and getting government out of non-gay-marriage-related parts of people's lives.) I was tempted to vote for Nader just as a complaint against Barr, but I held my nose and voted for what's left of my party.
Now, if the elections had been between Cheney and Cthulhu, voting for the lesser evil would have been fun!
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Maybe a compromise is warranted: never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity exploited by the malicious.
My webcomic
I know an FBI agent who is issued a Blackberry, so I agree they are keeping up with technology fairly well.
My webcomic
No doubt you thought that was a cute quote and copy-pasted it.
Nope. Original.
Please provide some proof that Hoover was a cross-dresser other than Anthony Summers' discredited book.
Citation.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
Hope and Change we can't talk about and won't share. If we do talk about it you will be taxed for it.
That is one of the longest non-form-submission type URLs I've ever seen. I realize that on the back end it is likely a submission to blog software, but DAMN.
The original comment posted by this user has been removed -
Please note we are only trying to protect you.
Agent Green
NSA service Specialist
"i lost my dignity on a slippery wiener"
Haven't you heard? If you quote and carry a copy around a copy you are now consiered a "constitutionalist," which, according to several dubious law enforcement training pamphlets makes you a likely "homegrown terrorist."
I only wish I was kidding.
Who else could say "In any case, [Palin] couldn't possibly have been worse than the "change" and "hope" that we ended up putting in the White House" and make it sound as if they really believed it?
Let me see now ...
KGB?
Was I right?
This whole thing seems familiar...
Oh, there it is;
Catch-22 states that agents enforcing Catch-22 need not prove that Catch-22 actually contains whatever provision the accused violator is accused of violating. An old woman explains: Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.
"The last thing I want to do is deal with a bunch of people who want something."
Major Major
"As to hating communists - God bless the man."
I can't bless anyone who resorted to tactics that bordered on and were occasionally illegal, even if it was in a good cause. Spying on people and keeping a list of around 10000 people to be arrested because they were political "subversives"? What what trying to do? Emulate the KGB? Look up COINTELPRO and the Church committee. It's truly shameful stuff. His legacy is definitely "mixed", even without the accusations of cross-dressing.
Obama and other Democrats only had a problem with the secrecy and similar government abuse because it was under a Republican Administration.
I don't know about you, but I'm becoming increasingly disappointed with Obama on these grounds, on the grounds of not doing anything about don't ask don't tell, etc.
We had the press constantly nipping on his heels.
And what good did it do? They didn't solve much of anything, as evidenced by the fact that this crap is around for Obama to continue.
It's no longer the "Bush" era. It's the Obama era now and these are now "Obama Era" techniques as well.
Joe quit the republican party and aquired his own publicist and corporate sponsers. He is doing just fine as an author, commentator, motivational speaker and proprietor of the "Securing the American Dream" think tank.
"They call it the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it" - Carlin.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
I was never really afraid of Bush's abuse. We had the press constantly nipping on his heels.
You have a faulty memory. It wasn't until the final couple of years of the Bush administration that the media paid any attention to his abuses. Up until then, the press were cheerleaders for the administration, who helped disseminate their misinformation.
... and then they built the supercollider.
Every member of congress is trying to get as much as they can for their district. As a result, people generally like their congresscritter (stuff for me!), and rarely like congress as a whole (why are you wasting my taxes on THOSE jerks?)
If this was the result of the Bush Policy, then Obama could just change it. Bush is gone, it's Obama's Show now. The truth is, Obama is going to expand these powers greatly. Obama doesn't see these powers of government to be the problem, just who was in charge. Congress granted these powers to the Administration, and the Congress has been firmly in Progressive hands for over 4 years. Don't look now, the greatest increase in Government Power has just passed the House Today and look who is in charge.
Fuck the FBI. Secret laws, secret justifications, treat these as though they do not exist. I know for damn sure I will not try to ordain what secret laws might exist -- they effectively DON'T exist. The court ruled you can't be gagged regarding a NSL without justification. The receivers of the NSL have not received a justification. SPEAK OUT!
Obama's America -- Alive in -- Iran
The heart-felt longings of U.S.A. President Barak Hussian Obama are realized in ... Iran.
How could this be Porthos?
Simple, U.S.A. President Barak Hussian Obama is -- conflicted.
In Iran, the "Officials" have done every thing that U.S,A, President Barak Hussian Obama wants to do to all citizens of the United States of America.
Aramis, what are these things?
1) abdication of the Bill of Rights.
2) abdication of the Constitution.
Such inconveniences!
3) Absolute Judicial Power ordained to the President.
The Power of the Executive Trumps all others .. even the Roman Catholic Church .. what Brazen mentality.
Under these terms the following:
All U.S.A. citizens are guilty -- of what ever charges the Executive Office wishes.
How wonderful, how economic.
Nice.
Torture, is the order of the day. Why .. because it is "Executive."
So, Aramis and Porthos, in effect, the United States of America, is a Prison, the Bastille, no!
Yes, we are in the hell created by George Walker Bush and continued laughingly by Barak Hussian Obama, Supreme Exalted Leader of the United States of America, America's Dictator for the rest of his life.
How else to bring about a "Beautiful America."
Now Barak Hussian Obama, formerly known as "Barry," can round-up all those kids who tortured him ... and kill them .. at his .. pleasure.
How many citizens of the United States of America will Barak Hussian Obama ordered killed for his ... pleasure?
Why must millions of people in India be ... killed .. for the ... pleasure ... of ... Barak Hussian Obama?
Why does Barak Hussian Obama appoint himself as ... God Obama?
Why are John McCain (closet Gay) and Sahra Palin (closet Lesbian) desperate for the thrust of the penis of Barak Hussian Obama up their anus?
*As to hating communists - God bless the man.*
Zus and Tuvia Bielskis were commanders of units Ordzhonikidze and Kalinin.
If Zus and Tuvia were communists, would you change your statement?